Advance Wars UPick!--Game Over..?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I don't feel like more needs to be added to the Mara case. It's pretty solid, wouldn't you agree?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: Bookitty

Sell me this vote I'm listening

[orcinus_theoriginal]

This is interesting to me. I think there's almost certainly opportunistic scum on his wagon.

Yeah so exactly this kind of thinking is what lead to varsoon

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I am treating it as randomly distributed

[orcinus_theoriginal]

She and Cabd arrive in Chicago friday

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm not saying we should lynch mara before she gets back but she's in a very powerful position atm

for reasons that you can explain?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Aka, don't wait, but if orci really is town, the shit he's pulling is completely unacceptable and disrespectful and I will probably blacklist him

this is completely faked and i don't buy a word of it. i also noted that i was unwliling to fully commit to pushing you until you returned so

I think most of the wagon on Varsoon is town, but I know firsthand the power of OMGUS, so I could even see him thinking his wagon was mostly scum.

This is interesting to me. I think there's almost certainly opportunistic scum on his wagon.

Varsoon

(11):

Cephrir

,

Brian Skies

, SMP, Konowa, Flubbernugget, Bookitty,

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Cabd

, fferyllt,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Save the Dragons

If I had to guess, one or more of {SMP, Konowa, Flubbernugget, Bookitty, fferyllt}

am interested in why green is green

fwi, no one should really put a whole lot of promise in much outside of orci lynch when I come back. hes scum, and him pushing me today is proof if that, pretty much. he started with continuing a push on me despite knowing I am v/la and why. Orci also pretty much has ~night reason~ to believe I am town based on things, and his meta is pretty off based since ue actually knows me to be agressive as either alignment.

you're trying to get me to soft or claim or something and it's not going to work

[orcinus_theoriginal]

and for the record, i do not have any night reason to believe that you are town.

none.

at all.

you are lying.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

And yeah, yoy saud that after making a case knowung I was going to be on the road, and thus unable to even engage with you or defend myself

Whoops, I forgot that I was unable to work on this game while you were away!

In all seriousness, I am giving you your grace period. I have said that I am doing so. You can reply to my case when you come back, since I'm not pushing your wagon. Your argument that I am somehow unfairly treating you is bullshit, and so is your (faked and overreacting) threat to blacklist me.

Nothing happened to me last night that should give me reason to believe you are town.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

That most of the current gamestate is focused on her and if she's scum that could be used to generate a lot of apathy?

no.

we will lynch today

apathy -> no feasible 2nd choice for a lynch

apathy in town increases chance of mara lynch

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm just going to say that mara wanting town read me is more indicative that she has unawareness of the game state in general unlike scum's knowledge

could you rephrase this? my understanding of this sentence is basically that scum-mara ihas a better understanding of gamestate. this is not true based on meta

[orcinus_theoriginal]

He also I believe is generally unaware but I think it's weaker in his case.

i didn't even realize i was using tells!

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I kind of think Mara is Town after #1475. I don't see Scum, who it appears a number of players are waiting on right now, coming in and softing something hard like that in what I tend to believe is a power heavy game.

what? power heavy game means it's easier to get away with a PR soft...

[orcinus_theoriginal]

what? power heavy game means it's easier to get away with a PR soft...

I don't know? There have been numerous softs already and this has been the most blatant of them. For Scum to come and say "Something happened to you, you have to think I'm Town now" is pretty outlandish to win over one person when the amount of PRs floating around could implicate her any other way as Scum.

I just think it's too brazen for Scum.

mara's MO as caught and pressured scum is to fakeclaim. i could give you many examples of this, and i will if you think it necessary.

knowing that, do you still think it's too brazen for scum?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i could give you many examples of this, and i will if you think it necessary.

Can you give me one, Orcinus? I don't need a link, just the name of a game.

I had real problems trying to meta Mara apart from the links you gave earlier because she posts in a lot of games she's not in and she's in a ton of hydras. So I could use a bit of help.

she fake-claimed in vespe i guess?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

If mara flips town, then orci is conf.

conf what?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yeah, we should kill mara.
VOTE: Mara
Wish I could explain why.

i'm also waiting on you to either retract this vote or explain why

pedit I completely agree.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

wait actually no i completely do not agree we aren't mass claiming wtf?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

1513 is a complete shitstorm and i'm going to wait for wgeurt to reword it before i delve into it

[orcinus_theoriginal]

do you expect more out of mara's scumgame or something?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

What if I were to suggest Mara has a history of subpar scum games?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: lynx

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Do you have any intention of explaining your reads anytime soon?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I think cephrir and fery and I will have a most productive discussion later tonight on whether or not we want this claimed

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh.

I

STRONGLY

desire a claim from Mara, and her action last night.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

At what point in time SMP are you goin to stop spectating and start playing?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh fuck wait

Wait

Everyone who is in a neighborhood with Cabd, under pain of death IRL do not lie about anything in this thread. Do not withhold info.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Do you have any intention of explaining your reads anytime soon?

Unless you want me to reveal potential invesigative roles, then no.
I don't trust them yet fully however they are what I have at the moment, reads based off play are being developed.

I want an explanation of your Mara read

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Why are you waiting for grapes? Look how much fun we're having without you

[orcinus_theoriginal]

gogurt

who?

and since when is it your city i've been here longer and i've been here for 2 months

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'll say it. The Lynx wagon is crap. I have no idea what it's based off of and people just seem to be riding off each others votes? Orci, are you willing to explain this read and why you are voting Lynx?

I'm really tempted to say no here just to fuck with you.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Does it count as lying if they just don't share anything from that neighborhood?

i was in class. let me put it this way.

if cabd does anything strange town needs to know

if he starts arranging night actions + claims town needs ot know

if he starts suggesting voting blocks town needs to know

if he tries to deliberately misrepresent things or ask others to deliberately misrepresent things town needs to know

if he starts doing fucking group therapy sessions town needs to know

i can't adequately express how terrified i am of scum-cabd in a neighborhood

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Counter claiming CABD

[orcinus_theoriginal]

So what the fuck was Mara softing?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Wguerts yes or no question

Was Cabd the person who encouraged/started claiming?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Fuck why the fuck did you claim

That is actually so damn stupid

[orcinus_theoriginal]

And why was

I

the investigation target???

[orcinus_theoriginal]

It's not really she wouldn't know, unless if the scum are not communicating at all

have you read vesperia?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

It's not really she wouldn't know, unless if the scum are not communicating at all

have you read vesperia?

I skimmed the iso there a bit. Why?

cos if your argument is "scum can't be ignorant of gamestate"

the train wreck that was HKC begs to differ

[orcinus_theoriginal]

who said anything about neighborhoods? when i say gamestate i mean things like "push wagons on orci with one liners because he's an easy lynch woohoo leggo!"

[orcinus_theoriginal]

pardon?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

HB is town
Mara was impersonating Bert
I'll give scum Mara claiming meta when I get out of class

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Cheetory are you scum reading me??????!!!

[orcinus_theoriginal]

How's it going

I'm in class but I can talk

Ask me a question

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Why are you avoiding me?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

That was sarcasm

But are you honestly saying that after writing a case on me you have nothing to ask?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

DANCE WITH ME MARA

I KNOW YOU'RE HERE

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=32441
Bookitty

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=32441
Bookitty

my thesis on why mara plays like this because anger and irrational deathtunnels is easier to fake than actual scumhunting is

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=26834
old game
-mara 1v1s me, tunnels for a bit
-fakeclaimed tracker/vig

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
AMOL
-mara drops a flavor claim under slight pressure at 3/7 votes (RESEMBLANCE TO THIS GAME??) day 1 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5000547
-full claims doc later

might i also add i caught her in both above games...

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=28296

fakeclaims 1shot bp

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34898

people wonder why i'm scared of cabd in a neighborhood? he got town mason Penguin Alien to fakeclaim masons w/ him.

pedit cabd SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH I CAUGHT YOU IN 165 AND IN TAROT THAT'S 2/3

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5293008

fakeclaimed full lover (she was only a one-way lover), claimed poisoner (which was her actual ability)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I've looked at mara's scum-claiming tendencies going back to sep last year now. she does not claim VT. she fakeclaims even in open setups.

i see nothing town in her soft to me at all

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5114229

fakeclaims town bp

i will fucking keep going

and i'm not just cherry picking games here

in every game, going back to july, that Mara has played as scum and has claimed in, she has fakeclaimed. in open setups. in non-open setups. in sun. in rain. in the heat of hell. in chicago.

fakeclaiming is mara's scum MO.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Strikes me as scum trying to spread votes/trying to look like they're townhunting because they don't want to seem like they're just sitting on an inevitable mislynch all of D1.

if i had a dime for each time people ragged on me for jumping votes around too much

#165. Lolwut. Okay with voting NS at any point, but BPC doing it is scummy?

ns struck me as a policy lynch start of day 1 so obviously sitting a vote on useless shit like him is scummy when there's actually something to talk about

he has since picked up his game

#197 tells ssk to move off notsci and back onto Varsoon while he's voting for BPC. Lol.

i told ssk to move onto varsoon?

ssk why are you even bothering notsci is vigbait/policy lynch. tell me about varsoon walking into a neighborhood and calling ppl "assholes"

i don't think i did, hm.

Either being protown or trying to look protown. Leaning to the latter because I'm biased at this point.

interesting how many times you say this but that you never try to counteract your bias

Id love to help but unfortunately I don't like discussing my Cabd read in front of Cabd

Please explain this.
Interactions orci has with cabd are weird. I don't like them.

Unfortunate, isn't it?

i'm late for a meeting brb

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I get this feeling from orcinus's posts that he cares about how people are thinking about him in a self-centered way.

you say this like it's bad but i'm not too sure why

#649 but no varsoon vote. Lol.

it was like 2 days into the game i didn't want to end day yet?

of course that changed when i realized varsoon would just be anti-town

This is a shit reason to scumread someone.

Cheetory

i'm going to be very honest with you, and i don't do this with a lot of people

i've always cared very much about your judgement of how good my reasons to scumread people are

without exaggeration my gameplay on this site has been heavily influenced by your opinions. i've always tried to model my play and analysis to some extent after what you do. you mean very much to me, and for the year i've spent here nobody else has had an impact on me the way you have

and so please understand that i feel hurt on a very personal level that you might say this. if you think my reasoning is shit, couldn't you at least tell me why? no doubt you are correct, but know that as part of my continuing struggle to reach your level of excellence, any detailed feedback as to why my reads are shit would be heavily appreciated.

please also be kinder in the future. i write this with a broken heart.

I don't mind a meta case on Mara, but it feels like he's trying too hard to make his scumread on Mara seem legitimate/trying to discredit Mara's scumread on him.

i don't think i can even respond to that

"cheetoy, i like your entrance posts, but it feels like you're trying too hard to look like town/trying to make your opinions heard."

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Can I get some reasoning on him being town?

then a member of our hood get a mod message saying orcinus is town.

Not so much an argument for him being town. But I think this is a fair reason to at least consider looking elsewhere?

does anybody else find it strange that i was the investigation target?

anybody at all?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Sure, he tried to safeguard any scrutiny through it, but it didn't feel right to me.

tell me more

[orcinus_theoriginal]

1
2
3
4

Wondering why you're so keen on trying to manipulate night actions, sleepy_pikachu. From what I've seen, players don't go around giving orders to the town doc (that may or may not exist, too). Ah, and then you go and mention soft claims. Right?

I sure hope you feel better hopping onto my easy wagon instead of pursuing your crusade.

i'm giving mara until tonight to respond. she just got into chicago yesterday.

thanks for linking where i called for doc protections. i was asking you why it didn't feel right to you. when i have a reason to, and when i'm townread as I am in this game, i call for doc protection on certain targets. i've done this in the past and it's proven fairly effective.

this time i wanted fery/ceph/me to survive so i could land in a neighborhood with them. i know that proximity with fery and ceph will allow me to read them with a very high degree of accuracy.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

you still haven't explained why you thought calling for doc protects is suspicious, just by the way?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

@orc, it doesn't feel right because it seems like unnecessary manipulation so early, with so many potential PR's floating around (I'm sure scum has more than one good PR in a game of this size). I'm surprised you're questioning me about that single thing and ignoring the fact that I'm using someone else's case against you. Ah, well.

whose case are you using?

why was it unnecessary? i'm not trying to protect potential PRs. I doubt there are many VTs in this game. I'm trying to protect town.

Its just something I don't see being pro-town, that's all. Sure, it may serve YOUR agenda, but that's likely not going to sync with everyone else's as they don't know what yours is. Well, you explained what it was last page, so that's good.

which is why i call for doc protects when i'm townread

[orcinus_theoriginal]

@orc, I think we misunderstood each other somehow.

In what way?

Okay, I've read/skimmed/ISO'd the games Orci provided.

He's right. She consistently fakeclaims when under pressure. She also tunnels, usually on someone mostly townread.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Actually no, I'm not ready to declare orci town yet.

I forget sometimes how good he is.

hence the "I think".

You're right he's good, but his bpc push looks very townminded to me. The only time I've ever seen scum-him do something that strongly town in the very-early game, it was multiball.

I waited a while to bring this up.

What did you mean here by "townminded"?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

the more i read this game the more i think i'm being snowed by someone between ceph, fery, book, STD.

and i don't know who it is.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Not so much jumping votes around too much, I just saw no reason not to lynch Varsoon and you jumping around while chiding other players for jumping around felt weird.

I assume you mean there was no reason for me not to lynch Varsoon? I'll let you clarify that before I reply.

You're going to tell me that's not you telling him that voting Varsoon is clearly better? It really looks that way to me. If not you phrased that really weirdly. I understand why specifically you might have gone after him for voting NS now, but the entire situation as a whole doesn't sit well with me.

That is not me telling ssk to vote varsoon. That is me asking ssk for his opinion on the varsoon situation. You could stretch and baaaarrrellyy be able to say that it was me asking ssk for his opinion on my case. But I am not soliciting his vote in that quote.
I also did not phrase that weirdly at all.

Didn't say this that many times. I feel like you asking someone for their read on you is pretty scummy external to how I was reading Mara on a single passby of both your ISOs. Pretty confident I wasn't letting my bias get in the way with that specifically. I also made it clear when I felt bias was influencing my read on specific things. If it makes you feel better, I no longer feel biased in thinking you're more likely to be scum than not at this point or by the time I'd finished ISOing you?

Why is asking someone for my read on me scummy?

How is it not a bad thing? Town are interested in finding scum. Looking like you're town is cool when you're town, but it's literally imperative when you're scum. I associate worrying about how you're seen by others [especially when you're not being wagoned] with a scum mindset.

Keeping town alive and scumhunting is not mutually exclusive.
In fact a combination of those two make for a very good towngame.

Also, I do honestly think that someone being "irrational" is a bad reason to scumread them as I think that's more of a nulltell.
Should have justified better. I also think your case is better than just her being 'irrational' now that I've looked your case over better, so your choice of words there was just not very representative of your case.

Mara is more sensible as town than as scum.
-Her irrationality and general refutation of gamestate knowledge is indicative of her being scum.
-Her irrational outburst about blacklisting me is indicative of her being scum.
-Her deathtunnel based on absolutely nothing is indicative of her being scum.
Irrationality covers all three above. I'm sure there's more I can't remember all of my case off the top of my head.
I don't really care for overarching statements like "irrationality is a scumtell for everyone". I'm interested in how certain people behave as certain alignments, not for general tells that may or may not even exist.

I don't trust the investigation result on me.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Why is asking someone for my read on me scummy?

*their read on me

[orcinus_theoriginal]

cheetoy what do you think about STD's and book's back and forth on p57-60

pedit then how the fuck am i cleared?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

OH.

how many people were tracked to me?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

wait no that doesn't make sense

yeah i want a fullclaim from wogurts

[orcinus_theoriginal]

or at least a less mangled version of what went on last night

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I still don't agree with the idea of posturing as what your townself would ordinarily be doing. I especially don't feel like it should motivate your actions in this game. I feel like this point isn't a stretch at all. Avoiding being anti-town is useful, trying too hard to seem like you're town is scummy.

i'm not posturing as what my townself is normally doing. if this is about the comment about stuff being my town MO, it was actually a joke since the last scum i played onsite (tales of you) was one where i played my heart out and lead town a fair bit. but then nobody picked up on it so it was like hwatever.

"Your vote is bad. Now, what do you think of this reason to vote this person?"
Okay.
I will admit that you saying that you can't understand what I'm saying there makes me feel like you legitimately meant something other than that though.

no, i understand what you're saying cheetoy, that just wasn't my intent and isn't, imo, what i communicated.

I just felt like a quickwagon would have been just as valuable as the meandering that ended up happening that day.

hey can i borrow your hindsight glasses?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

not tales, vesperia.

how did i think of tales? whatever.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

but the fact that stars go to people on the wagon mean that it's valuable to still do scumhunting and drag the day out to get more definitive reads earlier

Wouldn't you want to do scumhunting regardless of the star thing...?

Firstly, you saying this means nothing to me, why would you think it would? Secondly, I still feel like the tone on your BPC vote was off and felt forced. I can hunt down other examples where I thought I saw this if you're interested in understanding my scumread on you?

you can remind me about the BPC vote later. I'm waiting on fery to respond to something.

given you haven't exactly been giving me examples of posturing there's not much else i can say here

i'm reaching out to you b/c i think you're town

[orcinus_theoriginal]

actually i fucked up my fery questioning because she knows what i want to hear. whatever.

the intent behind my BPC vote was to open up game. i wasn't actually scumreading BPC hard at all, but i voted him because i didn't want town to get fixated on varsoon. i was going to ask fery about that because i feel that town-fery would've picked up on that. she said something to that effect and i just wanted to clarify.

This entire convo is confusing me. Your point has very little to do with my orci-read.

I'll take down the quote pyramid and rephrase then. I feel like it wasn't a real push and that you're overreaching a townread.

Not a real push? I disagree. It was clear air in a game that's been murked up by varsoon's whatever the fuck that is, and notsci's trolling.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Also, your last quote from Orcinus I'm pretty sure was intended to be sarcasm.

yes

last night was rough i'll like try to respond to rest later?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i'm surprised you ISOd book without commenting on book/STD exchange which i specifically brought up for you

[orcinus_theoriginal]

o my bad

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Approximately my fourth game on this site.

I can't find four games of you on this site.

A reminder that you may not talk about ongoing games

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: mara

[orcinus_theoriginal]

she arrived at nacho's last night so i'm willing to start pushing this

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Do you think weghort should fully claim night actions in his neighborhood

[orcinus_theoriginal]

You can think someone is town based on play and then want to verify that with night actions

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Fuck me.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

How does the tracker fit into this story?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Is it prudent to ask more about your one shot ability? Specifically how you got it

[orcinus_theoriginal]

& vote Mara please

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Who visited me last night?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Do we know that she was the only person to visit me

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Am not full-claiming. If I was the only one to visit him, then he should already know what I am able to do. Role isn't confirmable, but if I am the only one who visited him, he should know that there is next to no reason for scum-me to do what I did to him last night.

i have genuinely no idea what you're talking about.

Am completely serious about the disrespectful shit that he's pulled while I was on the road, though it would be more understandable if he really was scum

what are you talking about here?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i compiled a case on you which you are free to respond to.

i did not push for your lynch or drive a wagon until when i voted you this morning.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

oh right i forgot about that vote

but please. you've seen me drive wagons and you are about to see me drive a wagon on you. i go hard when i try for lynches. i didn't do that daystart

[orcinus_theoriginal]

you are still massively overreacting to that though, and the emotional response here is completely faked.

pedit repeat that more times, maybe it'll become true!

[orcinus_theoriginal]

in any case, and i don't know why you keep dodging this question, what happened to me last night that should give me such a heavy reason to townread you?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

what the fuck?

is this real life

is this really happening

has your scum game deteriorated to such a level

[orcinus_theoriginal]

So let's go through what just happened.

I lost a star last night apparently because mara visited me.

Orci also pretty much has ~night reason~ to believe I am town based on things,

No, something happened to you last night and why should have clickdd if you were town

she thinks i should townread her BASED ON THE SINGULAR FACT OF LOSING A STAR LAST NIGHT.

in mara's head the thought process is
orci starts day 2 with a PM that he now has 1 star
orci should townread mara! because obviously mara was the one who made me lose a star! and if mara deducted a star from me she must be town!! hah it's so simple!

what the FUCK?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

where do i begin with pointing out how fucking stupid and scummy this is

[orcinus_theoriginal]

[orcinus_theoriginal]

deprives town of wagonstars

[orcinus_theoriginal]

we aren't ending this day before i get a chance to talk to cabd

[orcinus_theoriginal]

what changed?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

are you FUCKING KIDDING ME

[orcinus_theoriginal]

WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT HOLY SHIT

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I AM INSULTED TO LEVELS I CAN'T EVEN COMPREHEND RIGHT NOW

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i hate mafia fuck this game and fuck you mara that was a really goddamn garbage thing to do. i thought you were better

UNVOTE:

[orcinus_theoriginal]

what a despicable, disrespectful, and immature thing to do.

holy fuck.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

orc you should take some time and walk away from the thread.

are you really going to defend that replacement request?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

it's 4 pm...

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: mara

[orcinus_theoriginal]

ceph

last time you echoed everything i said so much you were scum

this makes me nervous

[orcinus_theoriginal]

UNVOTE:

[orcinus_theoriginal]

wouldn't be the first time really terrible townplay has led to a mislynch this game if she ended up flipping town

If you're going to criticize me for the varsoon lynch by all means try

I stand by my decision to get rid of that train wreck

i think replace out is conftown

[orcinus_theoriginal]

yeah obviously not all replace outs

but i think it tells a reasonable story along w/ her first post in this game & i dont think mara would be enough of an asshole to replace out as scum. i think the replacement tells a story of really really aggravated town.

why is she aggravated? idk. that and the blacklisting threat makes no sense to me. i'm going to chalk it up to out of game factors and move on.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

replacing out as scum is not a bannable offense as far as i am aware and i would need a modquote to convince me otherwise

[orcinus_theoriginal]

link me please

i think i recall the game but it's different because varsoon explicitly expressed his intent there so it's totally different from here

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I mean, couldn't you just pretend to be angry? :/

just ignore notscience on this point it's silly and distracting

tell me about how you read some of the reactions here

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Approximately my fourth game on this site.

I can't find four games of you on this site.

A reminder that you may not talk about ongoing games

Cheetory.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Book are you here? I want some one on one time with somebody

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm not willing to lynch mara today because I feel the replacement rang as town.

My lynch pool for today looks like lynx, SMP, saki, konowa.

What about yours?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

We have clears on both orcinus and brian skies. I can confirm that. I'm functionally vanilla now so I can flat out claim that the cop clear was ~my~ oneshot power and it was very gated on who I could use it on (Which makes sense for the cheapest CO ever). And without saying specifically my limitations in case anyone ever manages to give me another shot etc etc, Brian Skies was the chocie I felt absolutely the best about. The orc clear is an

amnesiac cop

we're pretty sure, unless it's a messenger in which case CLAIM NOW OR BE AUTOLYNCHED FOR CLAIMING MESSENGER DOWN THE LINE

[orcinus_theoriginal]

See ok Cabd is actually really worrying me right now and I think he's scum but I don't know if building a wagon on cabd halfway through the day with a replacement coming in and fery still catching up is the best thing right now

pedit: yeah nobody said mara was an amnesiac cop, but that's where amnesiac cop as a role came up.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Given her read on you, if she is town, it makes sense she'd use it on you.

It makes sense for her to use on me as both alignments.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

What's your read on ABR?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

OK then, let's try this for now.

VOTE: smp

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Your setup hunting seems bizzare in a closed nati game with very incomplete information

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: konowa

a quick ISO of konowa reveals this to be a better vote than SMP. wagon with me!

[orcinus_theoriginal]

The thing with Mara's tell for me is that she isn't analyzing any of the post in question, or even questioning others whether the catchup post is invalid in any way. She's applying a blanket tell but not doing any of the legwork.

Vote: Ms Marangal

I kind of think Mara is Town after #1475. I don't see Scum, who it appears a number of players are waiting on right now, coming in and softing something hard like that in what I tend to believe is a power heavy game.

mara's MO as caught and pressured scum is to fakeclaim. i could give you many examples of this, and i will if you think it necessary.

knowing that, do you still think it's too brazen for scum?

I don't know, the play as Scum is completely sub-optimal right now.

I expect more out of Scum in general, I suppose.

My vote on you was mainly for your vote on Mara Today.

unvote;
Vote: Ms Marangal

No semblance of a logical line of thought here.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Just going to sheep for the time being.

Vote: Varsoon

Konowa's contribution to the Varsoon wagon yesterday.

I'm not even kidding. K said NOTHING else and ended up on the final wagon.

And also has done very little and expressed around 0 original opinions aside from mara being town, which apparently he no longer believes.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

orci, I understand and to some extent share your concerns about Cabd. If he is scum, do you think he would have played his reaction to mara drunkenly replacing out like he did?

Here or in neighborhood?

I'm not sure my case is ready yet but there are some strong townreads outside of neighborhood that might want to comment on thoughts, so I'm ambivalent.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

It is weird. I'm trying to figure out if it's scummy.

He's been town in every one of the games we've played. My recollection of his play has been that he's kind of a curmudgeony nonentity who gets run up and lynched on day 1.

As scum, he's more out there, I think.

Cabd replaced into a scum team ABR was on in a game a few months ago. I want to see what he thinks.

And there's this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32183

book maybe it was this

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I was asking her where she wanted to talk to me about CABD.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Assumed I couldn't respond to this because the three games = games currently happening, not games that are complete.

do you have any finished games anywhere?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yep

[orcinus_theoriginal]

This game is making me paranoid.

You know nothing about paranoia. I reread day 1 of xenoblade today.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

you copped me?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

yeah but in ny 169 you actually went tryhard

here you're just saying you are

[orcinus_theoriginal]

either my reasoning on scum mara was wrong

or this is mara being a total dick and replacing out as scum

i'm having trouble seeing either one happening but i think the former is more likely

[orcinus_theoriginal]

are you trying to sell me that mara should not have believed she was in danger of being lynched?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I was trying to think of positive reasons not to lynch Mara, but I am coming up blank right now. I'm sure there have to be some. I am not reading her as town, and I don't read her replace out as a towntell.

am i really going to have to do another meta attack to convince you why the replacement is a towntell, or are you going to spare me that work?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i consider mara's play this game incredibly scummy for many reasons

however it is possible that i underestimated the effect of massive RL events going on right now on her play

the replacement is making me consider that possibility

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Okay, but do you think that redeems the slot?

i was really hoping you wouldn't ask me this question, because i don't know yet.

mara can get really really worked up about things as town.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5374766
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5377673

this is our hydra btw

[orcinus_theoriginal]

cheetory is actually highly competent from the scum games i've read which makes me unhappy because i thought that would be an easy newbie read. ;(

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5038787

town meltdown

[orcinus_theoriginal]

1. Yep, that's scummy.
2. Yep, that's scummy.
3. Mara and I have history together from playing together a lot. When I played with her a year ago, I was a very tunnelly and loud player. It's hard for me to describe exactly the history between us but here are a few quotes that I remember.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4948595 (i misread mara this game)
http://quicktopic.com/50/H/vAWPR5qLPFS post 17
It's quite possible that it's only because it was me doing the push that drove mara off the deep end.
4. Could you rephrase?
5. I suggested in my neighborhood that maybe mara was angry because she genuinely thought it was dirty of me to post my case while she was on the road.
6. Sure but I dont see this as a suitable argument for lynching or not lynching mara.

the games i quoted show that when mara is pressured as town, occasionally she goes off and does really stupid things.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

4. Part of Mara's case on you was that you weren't aggressively pushing your case on her Day One. I didn't really feel you were pushing your case on her aggressively Day Two (today) either. But her meltdown seems to be in response to something she ASKED FOR from you and as such makes no good sense to me.

Look at it like this:

I say STD is scummy for not pushing a case on me aggressively enough. He responds by pushing the case really hard (not that I think you did that, but for the sake of argument). I then scream in horror, self-vote and ask for replacement.

Didn't I just invite STD to do it, in that case? Shouldn't I have been expecting it? Wouldn't my reaction look like overblown melodrama to you?

You're asking me to defend Mara's actions, which I can't. It is melodramatic. It is nonsensical. But mara melts down as town, not as scum. And this was a meltdown.

The best I can do is give possible reasons for why the meltdown happened. I think RL issues and our history together are two most likely.

I dunno. The more I hear the mara case repeated back to me the more I want to chalk this up to non-alignment indicative. But I don't think I can.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Mini 1610 just ended. I'm not going to lynch mara today, if ever.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=59131

[orcinus_theoriginal]

whatever. i take no responsibility for my earlier misread on mara. that tunnel on me was really damn stupid.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

no actually albert's right she might still be scum.

fuck me i need an adult

[orcinus_theoriginal]

what are we doing in this game pls

[orcinus_theoriginal]

notscience

tell me about yourself

sing me the song of your life

you seem like an interesting person

[orcinus_theoriginal]

ns???????

[orcinus_theoriginal]

tell me about it

[orcinus_theoriginal]

@orc, I think we misunderstood each other somehow.

In what way?

lynx

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Neutral:
Orcinus_theoriginal

why?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Right now I'm not very fond of orc's defending mara but not saying much of a new wagon, even in the direction of his vote.

ok?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

can i just remind people that i am literally cop cleared right now

[orcinus_theoriginal]

tell me more

VOTE: albert

[orcinus_theoriginal]

The orc clear is an amnesiac cop we're pretty sure, unless it's a messenger in which case CLAIM NOW OR BE AUTOLYNCHED FOR CLAIMING MESSENGER DOWN THE LINE

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Let's examine this quote again.

The orc clear is an amnesiac cop we're pretty sure, unless it's a messenger

in which case CLAIM NOW OR BE AUTOLYNCHED FOR CLAIMING MESSENGER DOWN THE LINE

Ah, there it is.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

although it's interesting it took you 10 minutes to come up with that?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Hey ns albert is scum come wagon him with me

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Why would only scum be on your wagon? It's not like you've been the pinnacle of towniness this game, is it?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I mean you missed day 1, came in and slapped a vote on varsoon pretty quickly and without too much hassle, slapped a vote on mara when i was still driving the wagon and now look like directionless scum left hanging out to dry after the replacement

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Hey ns albert is scum come wagon him with me

Why is ABR scum for disputing that you're cop cleared?

Why is ABR scum for reasons other than that?

because i am cop cleared and it's illogical to see it any other way

some meta work fery and i did, and his awkward wagon movement that looks incredibly opportunistic

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Just because you're blowing the horn the loudest doesn't make you control the bandwagon.

I consider Orc the leading reason why everyone else unvoted

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: ABR

I should jump off around late on the wagon for someone else though

are you compulsive?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

idk ns i think you're a solid townread for me right now so i don't really care

if i was the leading reason why everyone unvoted then how do i not control the bandwagon? and why so reticent about me not being cop-cleared, is it because you realized how wrong you were?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i mean albert i'd love to respond to that but i'd love for you to answer both questions in that post first and i'm afraid if i answer 2155 then you'll just ignore me again!

[orcinus_theoriginal]

You're not cleared, why don't you understand that?

say it more and it might be true. i am cop cleared, as cabd said. if you believe brian skies then you hsould believe mine as well.

Cheetory gains scummy points for unvoting after you

No interest in responding to my answer for this or are you content with just arbitrarily holding on to a scumread on me for one thing without actually engaging me on it?

Trying to reread everything right now.
Also trying not to OMGUS scumread/scumread ABR for what might just be playstyle.

it wouldn't be omgus. hop on with me it's ok. don't be afraid. let me guide you

I don't think orc is scum but all it takes is a few more pieces of information and things could unravel for him if he is.

has anybody ever seen such a beautiful scumclaim as this

look at this wonderfully disguised OMGUS

look at the opportunities left open, look at how hard he is tryign to 180 his townread on me because he realizes i am now a threat to his scum wincon

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I don't think orc is scum but all it takes is a few more pieces of information and things could unravel for him if he is.

see this post albert doesn't actually say anything

it is literally a "back off pls you're hurting me" and a transparent attempt in faking a reasonable trajectory for scumreading me

if you were town you'd be saying exactly what makes me scum right now. but instead you post something that has zero content in it and has

no

purpose except for serving, if needed, as a good post to point to later and say "hey i have a good trajectory!"

but nothing like that is in 2160 NOTHING

you are scum

& your refusal to elaborate on why i'm not cleared sucks as well

[orcinus_theoriginal]

*but nothing like saying what makes me scum is in 2160 NOTHING

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh you want me to continue? ok you've been picking low hanging fruit the entire game and focused on majority wishes instead of actually any semblance of legitimate scumhunting

[orcinus_theoriginal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6038711
so why didn't you scumread mara when she was doing NOTHING BUT THIS the entire day 1?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Place your votes, folks. We need to thin the herd.

The bandwagons aren't gonna start themselves, I see a lot of shy posters here.

and then you have this kind of posturing while you had your vote on GRAPES of all people for 300 posts from 1092 until these two quality posts when you changed your vote

Unvote, vote Bookitty

Unvote Bookitty, vote notscience

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh you want me to continue? ok you've been picking low hanging fruit the entire game and focused on majority wishes instead of actually any semblance of legitimate scumhunting

My Bookitty vote wasn't totally focused on majority wishes, though. My notscience vote might have gone somewhere, if Mara didn't crash that party with her drunken antics.

Do you mean grapes? I stand by my grapes vote, now that we look who's replaced him.

Mara? I stand by that one as well, as you know.

In fact, surprise, those are still the two I think are scum. Together.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6038711
so why didn't you scumread mara when she was doing NOTHING BUT THIS the entire day 1?

Your case on mara is bad. Your entire reason for voting mara is bad. I don't agree with any of it.

your bookitty vote was barely even a vote. you sat a vote with no explanation on an unscrutinized player for 100 posts before immediately revoting, similarly without explanation

you encouraged bandwagons

while idly sitting a vote on a player who posted twice on day 2!!

There's no way you don't see the hypocrisy here

The two votes you actually gave reasons for were varsoon and mara, both low hanging fruit

ok but again you avoid the question, which has nothing to do with my reasoning of voting mara! in the game i linked you, as town, state clearly a exactly applicable reason for mara being scum and yet you didn't use it here. i find that bizzare and i don't think you are actually trying to scumhunt this game!

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I don't have time for this.

Unvote, vote Mara

see this

you engage with cheet teling him to take gloves off and then

right when you get a response

you go back to the easy lynch?? what's the town mindset here?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

some meta work fery and i did, and his awkward wagon movement that looks incredibly opportunistic

Do you think any of the votes on the ABR wagon are opportunistic?

Maybe cabd's. Do you think they are opportunistic?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

You also still haven't answered what you think about mara

[orcinus_theoriginal]

If I thought the slot was still scum i'd be voting it right now.

When you're asked explicitly about your opinion on a player I expect you to answer and not force us to guess. You haven't voted anyone entire day 2--does that mean you think nobody is scum?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

like irl?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I've done it before and played with him as traitor while I was scum. We however knew he was traitor so I followed his game well.

Rephrase this please

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Can someone opt to show who these low-hanging fruits were are which post he plucked them?

Rephrase this please

[orcinus_theoriginal]

in EVANSTON??

where? i was going to go report for ferguson tonight but thank god that got pushed to tomorrow!

[orcinus_theoriginal]

so when you say ABR's play is "consistent with his meta", you mean to say that his play here is similar to his play as traitor in the game you played with him?

His varsoon vote was ISO #5 through #8, his mara post was #43 through #49.

So the ONLY two pushes he's made all game were on people who were already heavily under scrutiny, hence the term "picking low hanging fruit"

[orcinus_theoriginal]

so when you say ABR's play is "consistent with his meta", you mean to say that his play here is similar to his play as traitor in the game you played with him?

This is a question addressed to you.

If it's a messenger that's scum, they might have no intention to claim if they want to use their messages for evil.

Sure, but if you're willing to consider that, then you might as well consider the possibility of Cabd-scum or a redirect or any number of possibilities. Instead Albert seems to think Brian is conftown and I am far from it. It's a cognitive disconnect to consider one possibility and not the other.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

so when you say ABR's play is "consistent with his meta", you mean to say that his play here is similar to his play as traitor in the game you played with him?

This is a question addressed to you.

wguerts

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Hey guys, my activity may experience a significant drop...my grandfather has been given a week to live by his doctors...I'm also having health issues and going into surgery soon...it really doesn't help that I'm also in finals with my full time job. So just FYI if you think I'm playing at a more superficial level than usual.

vote neotank please.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Thank you. i'm trying to figure out whether or not we have time for this neotank wagon

wgeurts
abr
abr
orci
fery
cephrir
std
book
cheetory
ns
cabd

we have enough active people to wagon the tank and still lynch.

hurry everyone please

[orcinus_theoriginal]

orci this is really the route you wanna go? q.q

Yes. I think we will still be able to vote after this. It's not a huge loss if we're not able to lynch (which I think improbable) since we're at evens anyways. Don't stall this wagon.

Still trying to decide what I want to do after tank gets lynched.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

no because ssk is in ABRs neighborhood, not in cabd's

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i'm illiterate, ignore me ignore me

get off the neotank wagon i'm sorry. i missed something important earlier. we actually know the source of the neotank.

VOTE: abr

[orcinus_theoriginal]

cabd are you referring to a game here?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

https://docs.google.com/a/u.northwester ... QYAYM/edit

Cheetory, who are you here?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

[2014-05-19 11:24:07 AM] Keely: I generally just do something dumb as town
[2014-05-19 11:24:14 AM] Keely: and then almost get lynched from it
[2014-05-19 11:24:21 AM] Blehsan: (chuckle)
[2014-05-19 11:24:27 AM] Mr. Wizard Lizard Esq The Frog Ribbit: yeah, I'm kinda iffy as town as well
[2014-05-19 11:24:36 AM] Keely: so I'm worried people will be like
[2014-05-19 11:24:41 AM] Keely: "why isn't Cheet being dumb?"

what specific incidents are you referring to?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i'll work on one person at a time, cheetory. i'll post an albert thing tonight, perhaps this afternoon.

book can we sync reads?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Whatever you feel like sharing. At this point in time I'm most interested in developing stronger reads on Cheetory, lynx, BPC, and konowa. Also interested in your albert read for obvious reasons.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I think Lyserg vs myself on my Mexread in this game is a good example of this:
http://d2forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=11524

Firstly the quote suggests multiple events. I'd appreciate more than one example.

Secondly I'm trying to chug through quite a bit right now so I'll need you to summarize/provide exact links.

Thanks

[orcinus_theoriginal]

cheet i guess i just don't understand how the incidents you linked me are supposed to illustrate you being dumb as town?

and where is your head at right now in this game? what are you doing?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

wait, what about grapes looked horrible?