Capcom Crossover Chaos - GAME OVER~

[Bulbazak]

Now that the game's started-

We are a survivor that wins with everyone.

Our flavor is Pacman. That being said, we're going to be jumping on the main wagon from here on out.

Course, I might have some witty banter for you all. One doesn't just get in this awesome playerlist and lurk the entire time. Pretty much all I'm going to do though.

To clarify you win with both scum and town victory conditions? Shouldn't we as town lynch you day one because if you live to Lylo you just will vote with the scum wagon to win.

VOTE: skitty

This is scum.

Wisdom's vote is a good one, but we really need to sort the UT thing out. UT can't be alive at night if he's telling the truth.

This is scum, too.

Vote Untrod Tripod

[Bulbazak]

Bulz means scummy otherwise his vote would be different.

I'm voting for policy reasons.

Now that the game's started-

We are a survivor that wins with everyone.

Our flavor is Pacman. That being said, we're going to be jumping on the main wagon from here on out.

Course, I might have some witty banter for you all. One doesn't just get in this awesome playerlist and lurk the entire time. Pretty much all I'm going to do though.

Hi! You should probably die, then.

VOTE: Skitty

Wheee, I finally paid attention and posted in a game without getting replaced.

This is scum too, especially since he wants to vote a survivor claim (of which there is no point) and keep the anti-town role alive.

[Bulbazak]

I want to vote the survivor claim because it's probably not a survivor!

Out of the list of policy lynches, that's the worst one.

This is scum too, especially since he wants to vote a survivor claim (of which there is no point) and keep the anti-town role alive.

Then why aren't you calling me scum as well?

~Wis

Because you never indicated that your vote was for the survivor claim. I also assumed that you were smarter in terms of who you would decide to policy lynch.

[Bulbazak]

If you're wanting to lynch them because they claimed survivor, that's a policy lynch. If they have other actions (besides the claim) that makes you think scum, then by all means, enlighten us.

[Bulbazak]

@Major: Fair enough.

@Wis: I'd rather not fully rely on that as a crutch. Paranoia is fine and all. Running against the wall screaming "The sky is falling!" is not. I trust our Role PMs to be somewhat accurate.

[Bulbazak]

@Wisdom: He could be telling the truth, which is why we should lynch it and not leave the possibility of a cult open.

@AA9:

You I'm just going to forget it being a scum claim and look at that wagon later. There's definitely scum jumping on the survivor claim.

[Bulbazak]

Ah, an actual scum claim. Thanks for that.

[Bulbazak]

The way AA9 talked to me is not coming from a town place. She tried to placate me and then went with a fake question to UT to make it look like she was town scumhunting. Nothing about that exchange was natural and coming from a town mindset.

So if we choose not to lynch a claimed survivor who has committed to vote the largest wagon. We get to Lylo and the survivor votes the towniest person so the remaining scum jump on to win. How is this not be the outcome? And if this is the outcome how is it not better for us to lynch now.

Again, this is voting for policy reasons. If Skitty is a survivor, then her only goal is to stay alive, which means it doesn't matter who she votes. Personally, since survivors share the wincon, I have no problem with that and would instead make sure that she votes in our favor. If you think she's scum for the claim, then that's one thing. However, if you are trying to lynch her because she's a survivor, which it sounds like you are, then that is very scummy, since you are focusing on a useless wagon over a useful wagon on an anti-town role, or in lieu of actual scumhunting.

P-edit: @Major: I don't see the contradiction between the two roles.

[Bulbazak]

@Wisdom: Then why aren't you voting him?!?

[Bulbazak]

P-edit: @Major: I don't see the contradiction between the two roles.

You don't see a contradiction between two roles, both being survivors, having different win conditions? Why can I only win with town/mafia, but Skitty can win with any alignment?

Given the possibility of cult, no I do not.

[Bulbazak]

@AA9:

You I'm just going to forget it being a scum claim and look at that wagon later. There's definitely scum jumping on the survivor claim.

Chill Bluba, Why are you being so defensive about votes on Scum claim. Its just 4 votes.. You should remember that it require 13 for a lynch.

Placation. She wants me off her back, even though I'm not scumreading her at this point.

And this whole UT cult thingy.. UT, Why are you doing this so early.

This is fake and is meant to look like she's town asking questions. However, notice how the tone doesn't feel natural.

P-edit: GGG, why aren't you voting Major then?

@Major: Not really.

[Bulbazak]

Arcangel gets indignant as town. However, go back and read my post prior to hers, I was not on her back at all.

[Bulbazak]

bluba,
Placate you? what are even saying? I am not trying to scum hunt.. I am scum hunting. I didn't believe Skitty claim because it was odd. And there is no reason behind it especially the timing. If he can win game with mafia or town, it is no good for town and moreover you defense over this looks weird.

You were trying to get me off your back and were overdefensive. As for Skitty, if they win with mafia or town, then it's a wasted lynch as the role doesn't hurt anybody. Outside of Factions, I've never seen a win stealing survivor role. The only reason you should be lynching them is if you think their claim is fake.

P-edit: If she thought I was pressuring her, then she would have tried to placate me. I had been suspicious of everyone else on the Skitty wagon, and I outright said that I'd go back over the wagon later, because scum were sure to be on it. She told me to chill out right after that.

[Bulbazak]

@Wisdom: I'd prefer UT to be taken care of first.

[Bulbazak]

Also, I'm not going to let AA9-scum skate by just because she's overdefensive as town. Her response was all wrong, Wisdom.

[Bulbazak]

Tricky Nacho is tricky...

[Bulbazak]

Thoughts, Bro?

[Bulbazak]

@Wisdom: He could be telling the truth, which is why we should lynch it and not leave the possibility of a cult open.

Wait.

If UT's role is actually in the game, you DON'T think there's a possibility of a cult?

I said that I'd rather eliminate UT so that we don't have to deal with a cult. No clue if there would be another cult in the game.

Oh btw I'm changing my claim up more

I'm in a hood

[Bulbazak]

Agree to disagree.

[Bulbazak]

Normally scum are immune to cult. Are you scum Droog?

[Bulbazak]

If I had to choose between which 2 survivor claims I believe, it'd be Major.

[Bulbazak]

I think we should leave him alone, though, as I think Major is most likely apt to vote with town.

[Bulbazak]

Normally scum are immune to cult. Are you scum Droog?

i am calling bullshit on something ut said
not on sometihng i made up in my head

why
do you know something about scum i dont

I'm not sure what's up with that backhanded accusation. I didn't like you being afraid of scum getting recruited by cult.

[Bulbazak]

If he won with just town or just mafia, he wouldn't be a survivor, just town or mafia.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba 40 - I get the 'FoS' on GGG, but mind explaining the JTST FoS?

It was because I felt that scum would be jumping on Skitty for the Survivor claim, sensing an easy lynch opportunity. I became less gung-ho about it after more people kept piling on, and it was apparent that they weren't all scum. My only point of suspicion at this point is that JTST hasn't talked about anything outside of the 3rd party claims.

the question of the day still remains, Can we believe UT claim or not?
Let's just say that he is being honest about this claim and he is really the person who he claims to be... A) What will we loose by lynching him? vs B) What issues we will have to face if cult gets activated? . These are questions that everyone should ask themselves to sort the UT's place. It's not really hard. It will be a choice.

I am quite clear on this... WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM TODAY. If there is any truth in his claims means.. Town have less chances to win because there is always someone stupid enough to target him, And to give more better reasons. We at least don't have to deal this issue tomorrow again. If he is scum and playing a clever gambit? its even better!!!!!!

VOTE: Tripod

Useless post is useless, especially when everything in it has been stated multiple times in better and more natural ways.

Its day 1 and he claimed on page 1. How does mafia can pull up a play like that? Unless they have pre-game plan... Which also leads to me believe that mafia probably have day talk in this game.

I hear that scum get to talk in their PT prior to the game starting. Pretty crazy theory, huh?

I feel like there's not much of an argument for lynching anyone but

one of the claimed three anti-town roles

today.

1 claimed anti-town role. 2 claimed "meh. Why do we care?" roles. Personally, I think Major is more likely to side with town in a Lylo situation, which we should be trying to avoid anyway with claimed survivors.

[Bulbazak]

How about we designate someone scummy to target UT, then lynch that person and see if they are cult?

It was because I felt that scum would be jumping on Skitty for the Survivor claim, sensing an easy lynch opportunity. I became less gung-ho about it after more people kept piling on, and it was apparent that they weren't all scum. My only point of suspicion at this point is that JTST hasn't talked about anything outside of the 3rd party claims.

Why would scum not want to keep Skitty alive? They're basically saying to scum "We aren't going to scum hunt, and if you keep us alive till LyLo you win."

Skitty is a good place for scum to vote park due to policy reasons. It makes them look legitimate without putting in any effort. My comment had nothing to do with scum wanting Skitty lynched, but rather that their wagon would be an easy place for scum to hide out.

is it rlly a waste of a vig if u admitted to being an anti-town role and alignment?

Anti-town means against town not not-town. If a role's wincon is not working against yours, leave it alone.

mate
mate
town want to get rid of non-town
you are non-town
the fact that you could potentially be pro-town means jack shit
you are not town

Correction: Town want to get rid of scum.

Survivors are not scum.

Scum are Mafia, SK, Cult, Werewolves, Aliens, or the like. Anything else tends not to bother town and is a waste of time going after as town. Leave. It. Alone.

That's still not an anti-town role. My role is not inherently anti-town like, say, a Serial Killer or mafia faction. Suggesting it's a valuable thing for town to use shots on me is not a very town motivated suggestion unless you're claiming you believe me to be a serial killer or mafia faction (or cult).

lol
Survivor is

significantly

more anti-town than SK.

How so? An SK is essentially a lone mafia, with a similar wincon. An SK wins alone. Survivors just have to make it to the end. They win with whoever is left. The best survivor play is to work with town in secret but not stand out to scum. That makes them inherently more pro-town than SKs.

It's why you should never claim Survivor. Your word means nothing when in lylo, survivor is essentially another mafia member at worst or a kingmaker at best. There is no reason to let the role live till end game which means you can not win.

Lesson learned I hope.

This is scum.

I don't like Adorkable freaking out over ZZZX's claim.

On to page 23.

I need to check up on a few things, but I should be back later tonight. So help me if I see any more people freaking out over Survivors and not actually looking for scum...

[Bulbazak]

So yay.. Finally UT drama is over.. I am so tempted to vote Skitty but let's not rush the day. We have more time.

So fake.

And aneone remembers that we also have bulba in game.. Who happen to blame me and gone into lurking.

This is a scummy push and pretty effortless. AA9 spreads suspicion while taking no effort to check if my absence is exclusive to this game, and thus, alignment indicative. If she had, she would notice that I had been off the site since late Friday (around my last post) and hadn't posted in any other games. This is a cheap push, which is what I would expect from AA9-scum.

Reread and I'm wanting to lynch any of the 3rd-parties or zzzx. Bigger post coming later but can we please do a zzzx lynch?

Why is ZZZX scum?

I don't like zzzx, his role claim is scummy. It boils down to Town don't lynch me because I have powers and scum don't night kill me because it's bad for you. Puts negative pressure against his lynch

Actually his claim is that his role harms scum if he dies, which actually makes him a good compromise lynch down the line, i.e. I don't see this point at all.

Overall I think skitty or major is the right play today. Skitty has the higher probability of being a fake claim.

vote: skitty

So you just got done saying that ZZZX is incredibly scummy, yet you go for a policy lynch on Skitty?

bulba has gone mia and i am wondering why.

D&D on Sat and sister's birthday + Hammerwatch on Sun. I'm typically very busy on weekends anymore, so I've amended my signature to reflect this.

Getting scumvibes from jagami. He was precuaely like that when he won as sxum in inuyasha.

I'm actually liking them a bit more than I did in that game.

I'm thinking Dramonic is town who I wouldn't mind seeing go anyway.

We also need to figure out who the dayvig is, because he's cult now. Black Goo is not night specific.

On to page 35.

[Bulbazak]

i think goat is breadcrumbing that hes scum
obvs he asked a question in the scum pt and hes waiting for his buddy to answer him

I was going to vote GGG at the end of my catch up, but this is scum and needs to die.

Not a fan of bulbazack scum reading people for what amounts to a mafia theory difference of opinion.

If you're referring to the whole 3rd party wagon thing, I'm over that now (Although I'd still lynch Dramonic for the lols.).

Then I have no intentions of voting either claimed survivors but will shoot one/both of them if I am a vig.

It's why you should never claim Survivor. Your word means nothing when in lylo, survivor is essentially another mafia member at worst or a kingmaker at best. There is no reason to let the role live till end game which means you can not win.

Lesson learned I hope.

Also I think Purple Goo is just flavor text for Black Goo.

Vote: Skitty

Nope just voting Skitty cause survivor.

I don't like deathnote

But aren't you voting Skitty for the same reasons?

He specifically said that day actions wouldn't trigger it. The dayvig is town.

Okay. I missed that. The thought occurred to me. I looked the role up in the wiki and then looked back at his first post. I missed the clarification in the second post until you brought it up and I looked back.

Vote Skitty

[Bulbazak]

wis, what you are doing is accomplishing nothing besides blowing the thread up in pages

so either accept ns isn't getting lynched, or shut up

Hmm...

sonic says goat is town

I'm not quite on board with that. I'd need to see the Skitty-neighbor flip first.

Also, if anyone can give me an explanation why Sonic (the character, not the hydra playing) would be neighbors with Pacman, I'd like to hear it.

Nevermind. I'm on board.

Is mixed-alignment neighbors a fairly standard bastard setup?

They're also a pretty standard normal setup.

one last post bc I just fucking can't.

Perspective, friend. If you were in my shoes, I'm pretty sure you'd be calling for Skitty's head.

this shows that not only do you fail at reading in between the lines, and know nothing about me, but you're naive enough to think I would do this without a fucking solid reason

you seem to be working under the assumption I'm an idiot. the fact that you (or anyone) think I'd do something that outright stupid is a personal insult to me.

the same thing applies to you, MS. sorry if this comes off offensive, but I can't fucking put up with this anymore. :/ anyway, night for real

No one was calling you an idiot or stupid. They were just disagreeing with you. That's not the same, and this entire post trying to make them be the same just reads as disingenuous.

Grabbing food and rewatching the first 2 Hobbit movies. I'll finish this up later today.

On to page 47.

[Bulbazak]

Sooooo caled. Notsci. Please, eachof you, explain to me what you are doing or thinking as town. BOTH heads.if possible, prove which head you are.

I can see what Bro is getting at here, although I think it's less Shos coaching Skitty and more him faking outrage/confusion as a means to appear town.

Sonic/AA/Skitty This game is easy.

I'll give you the last two, but you're wrong on Sonic.

Jou, reads town, just super derpy.

I'm still evaluating them, but I wouldn't call them derpy.

I expected scum reaction to be to try and work with me initially but I'd wager that automatic assumption of gambiting looks pretty damning

You wager? You don't sound very convinced, and it looks like you're waiting to see on which side Nacho will come down on.

Also, GGG is scum for that early vote and Bulba is scum for the weak defense of me against GGG

What defense of you?

Bulz means scummy otherwise his vote would be different.

I'm voting for policy reasons.

Now that the game's started-

We are a survivor that wins with everyone.

Our flavor is Pacman. That being said, we're going to be jumping on the main wagon from here on out.

Course, I might have some witty banter for you all. One doesn't just get in this awesome playerlist and lurk the entire time. Pretty much all I'm going to do though.

Hi! You should probably die, then.

VOTE: Skitty

Wheee, I finally paid attention and posted in a game without getting replaced.

This is scum too, especially since he wants to vote a survivor claim (of which there is no point) and keep the anti-town role alive.

Scum, the distancing from GGG looks really bad.

What distancing? GGG is not even mentioned here.

Wisdom - I don't believe that survivor claim. Seems fake!!!!!!

Skitty - Do you have any night actions?

Scum, rolefishing. Also makes me think Goat is lying about his whole "oh I have no abilities" thing.

Again, no mention of Goat, so I don't see how you're leaping to this conclusion. It looks like you just quoted random posts and then said something hoping nobody would read too closely.

From the sounds of the meta read there is something that t woh, skitty, and the other hydra dont want to disclose in the thread. This is fine. However Goat has access to a way to evaluate this info without it being disclosed. If everyone isnt stupid there is a good town reason for keeping it hidden I am not going to keep my vote on skitty demanding disclosure.

So if goat, who i am townreading, assesses the info and decides it is good enough for him to unvote, i will unvote. If it gets disclosed in the thread then i will evaluate it for myself.

That's a lot of words to say so little.

Nah. Not feeling the GGG lynch right now. I think his reactions towards the whole Skitty lynch looks the most genuine and he actually seemed interested in scumhunting the Survivor claim, not just policy lynching it. Also, if he thought Goat was being sincere about the neighborhood and the Notty-hydra being sketchy, I can see him wanting to sheep Goat. It's hard for me to see him proxying a vote to Goat when he's been advocating a Skitty lynch for a large portion of the day and even looked at the other people on the wagon he was advocating. 932 and 935 looks like he thought he found something scummy and wanted to make note of it.

I kinda wanna lynch winter skies.

I'm getting there as well. Brian is not giving me the town vibes I normally get from him by this point.

a ggg lynch is still good but holy shit yes i greatly prefer to lynch tiph right now

Tiph is town.

Not gonna do a full quote-spam because I don't have time, but I'm caught up:

1) piegami's case on me continues to be bad, as explained by multiple other people.

2) ns fucked up. I think I see what's going on, though.

3) TD is getting wagoned for what seems to be stuff that I've seen him do as town.

4) GGG wagon seems slightly better, but not something I could really back.

UNVOTE: Skitty

NachoWis: Who is driving the TD push?

also ftr i think this post is really bad

Ftr, I think it's not.

On to page 55.

[Bulbazak]

I...kinda think GGG is town.

Why?

Sonic/AA/Skitty This game is easy.

Jou, reads town, just super derpy.

TWOH is town.


Is shos usually this drunk-sounding?

This is the scummiest post ever made in the history of Mafiascum. Please lynch this one without second that. He is so flipping scum!!!!

Explain.

Bulba is scum, All his tunneling instead of scum hunting, and pretending like he is defending skitty is the scummiest thing I have ever seen from him

Where and who have I been tunneling? Where have I defended Skitty?

Arc Angel is scum.

You can be town.

Arc Angel is scum.

Lol. No. TD is scum and i can prove it unless you're protecting your mate.

You have the floor. Go! Be aware I'm sitting near the gong.

rudeness levels are correlated to scum levels

that means that there are more anti-town roles than norm

which we already know

I really hope you weren't serious...

Arc how is your naked reads list any different than the post you call the scummiest ever?

they are not plain. i have read every single post and conclude them. Just because they aren't any substantive statements doesn't mean they are don't contain value and more over i have already stated my cases for my scum reads. And Town are reads simple conclusion based on interactions.

why is AA9 so scum?

For trying to get me off her back after I voiced suspicion of her Skitty vote, but then decided that I was probably way off base with all my Skitty-vote suspicions. Her appeasement at that point was out of place and not necessary. AA9 scum wouldn't have cared or responded to me in that manner. Her following reaction to UT was also bad and was meant to make her look town without putting in much effort ("UT, why would you claim something like that?"). It's a fake question and wholly unnecessary, kinda like your response to the Skitty survivor claim. She's also been fake scumhunting and diverting attention away from her with either OMGUS or AtE. True, I normally don't expect much from AA9, but I expect more than the BS reasoning she's been providing. In fact, as I've pointed out several times, her reasoning is blatantly false, which anyone would see if they would actually read her posts. When a player is making things up out of thin air (And I mean seriously making things up, as in the basis of the accusations don't appear anywhere in the posts she's quoting or responding to.), than that player is definitely not playing towards a town wincon.

why is AA9 so scum?

there is something you must know about me and this is also for the players who never played with me.
Scum always always and always want to get rid of me early(mostly through mis-lynch) because when I am town, I am more transparent player that one could ever be and some experience players already know this through meta and they all can sort my alignment just skimming through few posts (Nacho is an expert reading me). This is my greatest strength but also my week point at the same time because if those same old players are aligned to mafia they will use it against me. And which is exactly what currently happening today, Bulba scum read on me proves it. because we had typical past and he hates seeing me being universal town read for all the time. So after looking at his & TD reads on me, I am very positive that they are scum together. They just want to twist around and pull a mislynch on me. Will of Heavern are the only hydra who had noticed this twisting attitude of Bubla which is exactly why i read them as town.

And TD scum read have no real case, All he said that my reactions in game are fake especially my interactions with Bulba. that was it. And please ISO TD posts against mine. And honestly ask yourself if TD is being logical or idiotical. You will know the answer.

Anyone who is falling for this AtE should feel ashamed of themselves. AA9 is discrediting the entire push against her, instead of actually responding to or actually trying to understand the arguments. There is no town motivation in this whatsoever. Yes, I know that AA9 has a tendency to OMGUS and AtE, but she also actually responds to her detractors and is more accurate with her accusations. This is not AA9-town at all, and you guys need to realize that.

Also, given the large defense of Skitty and resistance to their lynch coming from my major scum reads, I'm thinking that they're probably a scum PR of some sort.

On to page 60.

[Bulbazak]

I agree arc is town but i also confirmed that nothing she says is worth anything.

i can never read bulba so im not even trying

You can happily leave this task to me. I always catch scum bulba. and He is scum!!

You do know that you were simply a no information kill in that sole game you've played with scum me, right?

He literally went after every single person who voted skitty for survival claim. There is nothing wrong in lynching survivors at any point of game which is much better than lynching a townie on day1 and moreover lynching anyone who claims as survivor on day1 will avoid scum using such claims as gambit. And Skitty didn't needed bulba defence, they had hardly three votes in their wagon. 3 votes is basically nothing in a large game and they were not anywhere close to get lynched.

I've explained this already. I believed that scum would be trying to hide on PL wagons, and it would be easier to spot scum jumping on the Skitty wagon than the UT wagon, since there was a large town motivation to lynch UT, but not Skitty. I gave up on this theory when you joined the wagon. Funny enough, you quote my responses out of order in an attempt to make it look like I was being inconsistent, rather than realizing the error of the theory.

And another important thing to notice was that in his post #48, he was supporting policy lynch and later he defended skitty saying that it was a policy lynch. this indeed a double mind play and only scum plays in this manner.

Actually, I said that the PL lynch on Skitty was "the worst one", indicating that I thought there was a better PL: UT.

@AA9:

You I'm just going to forget it being a scum claim and look at that wagon later. There's definitely scum jumping on the survivor claim.

Chill Bluba, Why are you being so defensive about votes on Scum claim. Its just 4 votes.. You should remember that it require 13 for a lynch.

Placation. She wants me off her back, even though I'm not scumreading her at this point.

And this whole UT cult thingy.. UT, Why are you doing this so early.

This is fake and is meant to look like she's town asking questions. However, notice how the tone doesn't feel natural.

P-edit: GGG, why aren't you voting Major then?

@Major: Not really.

This is another ridiculously scummy post from him. I had same reaction of everyone else in game for UT claim. How could he say my opinion is fake and it has come from a scum mind? I never felt like I was in pressure by him to be out of my back. Here he made statements that don't exist. How does he know what is my tone? My natural play is asking questions, I always does and he know this already yet he twisted my post to make it look like it is coming from scum mind. He have no knowledge of me being scum and there is no way he could scum read just because I voted skitty for their claim.

It's funny that you said you had the same reaction to UT when you clearly didn't. The reaction to UT was either asking a dayvig to take care of him, voting him, or refusing to vote him in fear that he was a jester. You, however, enter the game and say "UT, why do you do this so early?" which is a nonsensical and useless question that you could not have possibly hoped for UT to answer. You want to know how I can know your tone? Simple. It comes down to how you ask your question. Your question was meant to be seen, not answered, which means it was for appearances only. That's why it read so fake. And don't pull that BS about me having no knowledge of you as scum. You know better.

Also, I'm not going to let AA9-scum skate by just because she's overdefensive as town. Her response was all wrong, Wisdom.

This post tells that he is using my meta against me to support his scum read on me. this is exactly what I said in my post earlier. the players who know how to read me through my strengths will use it against me. And bulba did the same!!!!!!

Actually, I'm saying the exact opposite and telling Wisdom that his meta read is BS.

If I had to choose between which 2 survivor claims I believe, it'd be Major.

He defended skitty when they claimed survior and now he is okay lynching major but not skitty. How is major survivor claim is any different to skitty.

Actually I'm saying the opposite: That if only 1 survivor claim was accurate, I'd believe Major's over Skitty's.

You're really bad at misrepping my posts. Do you want to try again?

Also see the post #329, post # 936
He repeatedly said same things over and over again. My reactions and posts are just my response and they are no different how i do things when i am town. Instead giving me benefit of doubt, he read me as scum like he knew i am scum which is not possible unless he have access to my role pm. This is another solid reason to see that he is scum and his objective was to get rid of me.

Did you just admit to being scum?

Scum me plays very safe game than town.

You don't have proof. You have opinions, perceptions, meta, gut reads perhaps, but you don't have proof.
I thought you might actually be onto something even though your ISO looks like the pilot of a cheap sitcom, but you're just talking out of your ass some more aren't you?

Then why don't you vote her?

To make a TD vote more enticing



He would also make a very good policy lynch regardless



So, I think it is better for all if we lynch him

I mean,

He's scum
Even if he isn't

That's okay

This is horrible reasoning.

He doesn't work for the town, he's someone the scum doesn't need to kill.
It's a guy with the passive ability "you do not count against the mafia's win condition"

He has a detrimental role, and the only guy we know for sure is not gonna flip town.

He also has the passive ability of "you do not count against the town's win condition". Just saying.

The way AA9 talked to me is not coming from a town place. She tried to placate me and then went with a fake question to UT to make it look like she was town scumhunting. Nothing about that exchange was natural and coming from a town mindset.

So if we choose not to lynch a claimed survivor who has committed to vote the largest wagon. We get to Lylo and the survivor votes the towniest person so the remaining scum jump on to win. How is this not be the outcome? And if this is the outcome how is it not better for us to lynch now.

Again, this is voting for policy reasons. If Skitty is a survivor, then her only goal is to stay alive, which means it doesn't matter who she votes.

Personally, since survivors share the wincon, I have no problem with that and would instead make sure that she votes in our favor.

If you think she's scum for the claim, then that's one thing. However, if you are trying to lynch her because she's a survivor, which it sounds like you are, then that is very scummy, since you are focusing on a useless wagon over a useful wagon on an anti-town role, or in lieu of actual scumhunting.

P-edit: @Major: I don't see the contradiction between the two roles.

I like arc angels bulba case. In addition to her case I went back and Iso'd and didn't like this, how will he ever make someone vote for him.

Solid scumposting based on BS reasoning and nitpicking. Might still be scum with AA9, but this does make me doubt my read a little.

I also realized I was confusing Skitty posting with AA9. They're both bad and filled with BS, though.

what are your thoughts on 1520? Kagami thinks his focus on TD feels extremely narrow; he claims the wagon on TD makes no sense, but doesn't put up a complaint with any of the people on the wagon or divine a sensible explanation for it. I don't like it for basically the same reason, and also bc the logic behind it ~again~ isn't very good - it's entirely bc of TD doing things that match one town game, with no attempt to divine motivation for any of it. on top of that there's absolutely no interest in all the meta stuff everyone else is bringing up that points to TD being scum.

I don't see how you're attacking Bro for lack of logic and narrow focus in a post that simply asks Sonic to explain his TD case more. It feels like you're really stretching to justify your Bro push.

You don't have proof. You have opinions, perceptions, meta, gut reads perhaps, but you don't have proof.
I thought you might actually be onto something even though your ISO looks like the pilot of a cheap sitcom, but

you're just talking out of your ass some more aren't you?

@adorkable. The spam posting is terrible, the vote on me is terrible, and our original interaction was terrible, though to be fair I was only reading him as scum for the middle bit originally.

@Mentalsomnic, you sir, may take your “lack of reason” and shove it up your ass. I think the claim is fake, I think skitties posting since then has been fake, I’m not buying this reaction test BS. This is a caught scum trying to backpeddle, hard, and it needs lynched.

@Everyone, I'd have loved to see an arc angel lynch, but no one but me can see that, and I see the way the wind is turning. Johou threatened his scary fakedayvig, ya'll got cold feet, and now nachodisdumb has provided an alternative wagon for you to sheep on. Congratu-fuckin-lations. I'm going to eat this "bullet" now so that you idiots can get back to lynching actual scum if you're capable of remembering that's what skitty is.

VOTE: skitty

So, just for reference, when skitty flips scum we are speedlynching johou for that BS fake dayvig, right?

^ i don't like any of these posts. (bolded mine)

What don't you like?

just by reading page 60:
1. AA9 is town. no fucking way scum would invest so much power in such a short time in order to do what she did there, IMO. even me.
2. dramopnic is scum and he's with bulba. see how he keeps saying 'you ahve no proof'? proof is a word that means FACT. if I don't have the proof, then it is still a fact, but I just cannot prove it. as in, "pythagoras was right" "prove itf" against "pythagoras was wrong" "convince me".

Still scum. I don't like how he's stretching on the Dramonic point. It's like he senses that the tide is turning against Dram, and he wants to start laying the foundation to jump on him later.

I was hoping to finish catching up before I went to bed, but it looks like I'll have to leave the rest until I'm back on Monday. There will probably be over 100 pages by then...

On to page 65.

[Bulbazak]

I am very positive bulba is scum and i want to drag his ass into this discussion so that others could see but i don't see him fighting at all which again one of his scum tactics.

Actually, I'm not afraid to get into fights as scum, which you saw in Maniacal when I took on Nero.

i dont like winter skies

Why not?

on the other hand, bulba's townread is completely unexplained and looks like a wk.

Tiph looks a lot like the town Tiph I saw in Imaginary Fights.

I'm gut reading Esp as scum.

Say what hapened to the skitty wagon.
did it die out of lurkage or people lost interest or did we decide to keep him alive for some reason?

I thought you weren't scum reading Skitty?

Skitty - Nothing's really shaken my town read on this slot from the start

Why are they town? Also, your Bro vote sucks.

I don't like Droog's 1882.

FTR: I think TWOH is scum.

Why?

1943 is a very town response to Esp.

Kise: Don't worry, I'm just trying to bully om / metal sonic into giving me reasons that I can look at for why they think what they do.

I don't

actually

hate their playstyle. I just really want to have something tangible to look at. I love everyone in this game! Not equally, but still.

That being said, Ray's posting is making me feel better about that hydra.

I'm going to eat and do some other stuff. I plan on getting back to this later tonight.

On to page 80.

[Bulbazak]

at this point i would support going the full way with a wischo wagon

Om, you should feel bad about this vote.

Holy crap! 1997 is so town.

I think that wisdom not listening to me is a scum tell

Sonic, Wisdom is hard headed and tunnely. Him not listening to you about someone he's tunneling on is not a scum tell.

Grand OMGUS post bulba. any reason with that or just because I'm calling you scum with dram? also what tides are against dram, if you allow me to ask?

Dram was getting a lot of suspicion when you posted that. I saw a scum Shos taking advantage of the opportunity that the game flow was presenting him. And it's also not an OMGUS post, because I've been suspecting you for awhile, and you opportunistically positioning yourself is not something I'm going to let slide.

re: 2069, bulba

I don't get it. You did not like my vote on Skitty, and did not like AA9's vote on skitty, and therefore you pushed it; I ignored you entirely, and she tried to get you off her back and decided you're 'off the base' (which I agree with), so that makes AA9 and me scum? Also, how does that align with the last sentences of your post, where you DO think Skitty is scum PR or something?

I think Skitty might be a scum PR due to so many of my scumreads protecting them. Also, didn't you call AA9 scummy for her Skitty vote as well? I did forget that you voted Skitty though...

I'm not quite on board with that. I'd need to see the Skitty-neighbor flip first.

Why was seeing a Skitty-neighbor flip necessary to call Goat town until Goat flavorclaimed?

I was thinking that Skitty was scum due to the neighbor claim, because I didn't believe that Survivor Neighbor was real. When Goat claimed neighbors with Skitty, my first thought was scum. It was his reaction to Skitty, not the claim, that changed my mind and made him a strong townread.

Bulba - despite reading arc as scummy her bulba case in still good. I don't consider associative tells in day one before we no more about he set up.

AA9's case was BS, and I had already posted my response to it by this point. This is scumposting.

On to page 86.

[Bulbazak]

This is fake and is meant to look like she's town asking questions. However, notice how the tone doesn't feel natural.

He calls her out for a fake sounding tone, which really isn't a case based on much, and yet it dominates a larger majority of the case on her than it should: this is especially strange when Bulbazak in general is a very logical entity (which explains why he does as well as he does as scum, he's free to pick apart cases where he sees fit and has the know-how to put the passion behind them) and doesn't generally build his focus around tone sounding fake.

This is false. I base a lot of my reads on how a player sounds and feels.

If I had to choose between which 2 survivor claims I believe, it'd be Major.

I think this reaction to the survivor counterclaim is weird as shit and generally unnatural. There were some people (ooba) who believed both claims because MM obviously wasn't lying and they didn't think Skitty looked bad. This is fine, this is a reaction that makes sense. There are some people who developed scum, not-survivor reads on Skitty based on the counterclaim. This is also fine, also a reaction that made sense. There are still more people who didn't give a shit and thought both should die either way. Still fine, still making sense. This reaction from Bulbazak holds him in a place where he goes "oh I believe both survivor claims but if I didn't believe one it would be Skitty" which shows that he's not actually updating reads based on new information: it reads like he knew that Skitty wasn't scum because they weren't on his scumteam but also saw that the chance for wagonning them might have come up later so he's laying foundation for a scumread there.

I actually don't see the problem with this. This was in response to Sonic, and I made it known that while I believed both claims, the Major one was the most believable of the two.

It was because I felt that scum would be jumping on Skitty for the Survivor claim, sensing an easy lynch opportunity. I became less gung-ho about it after more people kept piling on, and it was apparent that they weren't all scum

This is Bulba stating that he actually believed that only scum would attack Skitty, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and more a sign of him bucking against what was a larger anti-Survivor sentiment than he initially predicted there would be.

Yes, the large anti-Survivor sentiment surprised me. It's one of a few third party roles that hurts no one, so the hate for it doesn't make sense to me. As such, I thought it would be the perfect place for scum to hide.

This is a scummy push and pretty effortless. AA9 spreads suspicion while taking no effort to check if my absence is exclusive to this game, and thus, alignment indicative.

This point states that AA is scum because she didn't check his onsite activity before accusing him of lurking...?
This is a bad point.

How is this a bad point? AA9 used lurking as a reason for me being scum. This coming in a game that has a tendency to pack on 20 pages overnight and in which I've fallen consistently behind. I also have a tendency to disappear during the weekends, hence the new addition to my sig. Beyond all of that, if she seriously thought I was avoiding this game, then looking into my activity should have been her first priority. Instead, she focuses on a weak point, my absence, as a reason to push me, which is scummy as heck Nacho.

For trying to get me off her back after I voiced suspicion of her Skitty vote, but then decided that I was probably way off base with all my Skitty-vote suspicions. Her appeasement at that point was out of place and not necessary. AA9 scum wouldn't have cared or responded to me in that manner. Her following reaction to UT was also bad and was meant to make her look town without putting in much effort ("UT, why would you claim something like that?"). It's a fake question and wholly unnecessary, kinda like your response to the Skitty survivor claim.

This is a case created on page, what, 7? Being carried out to Post #2000. >.>

What part of being behind don't you get? From my perspective catching up, AA9 has posted infrequently, hence the points from page 7 hold just as much weight.

She's also been fake scumhunting and diverting attention away from her with either OMGUS or AtE. True, I normally don't expect much from AA9, but I expect more than the BS reasoning she's been providing. In fact, as I've pointed out several times, her reasoning is blatantly false, which anyone would see if they would actually read her posts. When a player is making things up out of thin air (And I mean seriously making things up, as in the basis of the accusations don't appear anywhere in the posts she's quoting or responding to.), than that player is definitely not playing towards a town wincon.

OMGUS + AtE is that whole overdefensive bit that Bulb showed he was aware of before, and yet he continues to attack it. He hasn't shown anywhere where her reasoning is false, but saying "oh her reasoning is false and I have demonstrated as much several times" sure does sound great!, and he hasn't shown where AA has been making anything up at all.

I got her confused with Skitty, something I didn't realize until after I posted that. They both made similar attacks featuring posts that didn't say what they said they did and accusing me of things that I never did. Subconsciously I mixed the two up.

Anyone who is falling for this AtE should feel ashamed of themselves.

This is manipulative as hell: he's trying to say that anyone not scumreading AA for the playstyle we are ALL FAMILIAR WITH should feel stupid aka trying to add legitimacy to his push by saying anyone who disagrees with it just doesn't understand it. This also doesn't make sense from a town-Bulbazak because I have never ever seen him post something as arrogant as this.

Then you haven't been playing in the right games, because Mastin has accused me of it before.

Yes, I know that AA9 has a tendency to OMGUS and AtE, but she also actually responds to her detractors and is more accurate with her accusations.

This is 1) a bad attempt as misrepping her meta, and 2) a point that is completely wrong.
What the hell is AA doing but responding to him after her giant case wall against him? He's almost pretending that she's been ignoring him completely and that is blatantly false.

From my perspective she wasn't. I'm seeing her being a lot more active as I get closer to the end.

I've explained this already. I believed that scum would be trying to hide on PL wagons, and it would be easier to spot scum jumping on the Skitty wagon than the UT wagon, since there was a large town motivation to lynch UT, but not Skitty.

I gave up on this theory when you joined the wagon.

Re: the bolded: since when? I have a quote from you in this very wall of you saying you gave up the theory because too many people jumped on Skitty for them to be all scum.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I made that post you're referring to right after AA9 jumped on the Skitty wagon.

Solid scumposting based on BS reasoning and nitpicking. Might still be scum with AA9, but this does make me doubt my read a little.

This reads like horrible progression: Bulbazak has built his entire game around AA9-scum, but then he starts to doubt AA9-scum because GGG says that he likes her case? No, this is Bulbazak realizing that he's getting a lot of deserved shit for a bad AA9 case and then trying to back off as a result.

GGG-scum > AA9-scum. So when GGG starts piggybacking on AA9's reasoning, alarms go off in my head and I start thinking buddying, which makes me doubt my AA9 read. This is the most natural progression imaginable, Nacho, and I'm surprised you didn't see it.

I think he's putting extra emphasis on things like "gut reads" that he wouldn't normally because it's easy to say despite being obvious case padding.

I've been relying on gut reads more and more, especially in d1. I'm pretty sure you've been in games with me since I started doing this.

2) He's been pushing the same reasoning for her being scum than he hasn't added significant content since PAGE FOUR. For proof of this, his case on Page 4 is here and the updated case here. You'll notice the new reasons he added were "fake scumhunting" (no specifics), and she "made things up" (no specifics). He says he's demonstrated where she's been making stuff up, but if you ISO him yourself, you'll notice all he's done nothing of the sort at all.

I've addressed all this already, but I want to remind you that my perspective catching up on the game is very different from your perspective in the game's present.

3) Again, this is the centerpiece of his play this game. This is the only significant contribution he's made in all his posts since the beginning of the game. If Bulbazak was town, I'd expect he would believe very, very strongly in his case, especially considering natural tunneling tendencies. He begins to doubt his case in 2075 because GGG agrees with AA9's case, which to me tells me he didn't have any sort of confidence in his case to begin with. This doesn't mesh with in-game posting, but it does mesh with scum-Bulbazak becoming increasingly uncomfortable pushing an obviously town AA9.

I do have natural tunneling tendencies, but I've also recognized that such tendencies are a weakness. I still break into them now and then, but I try not to.

The flaw with the second one is that his entire argument for why AA9 started interacting with UT in the first place is to placate him? Thus it makes no sense for him to give up on said theory just because AA joined the UT wagon.

AA9 didn't join the UT wagon. She joined the Skitty wagon, which was why I gave up my theory that only scum were jumping on Skitty. And I didn't say that AA9 interacting with UT was to placate me. I said that her telling me to "chill" when I showed no suspicion of her and instead said that I was rethinking my stance on those who were jumping on Skitty after she joined the wagon was an attempt to placate me.

It is scummy when you center your game around majority consensus and your reasons for doing so make absolutely no sense.

Besides UT and Skitty, show me where I've done this.

the last line in the first (dramonic) post was a type of cheeky taunt that I hardly ever actually see town do. it's a lot more typical of scum who are looking for an easy way to make someone look worse than them

I do this all the time as town. Heck, I've done so in this very game. This is a bad point.

you could probably have done some kind of analysis on the Skitty wagon now that he's basically as conftown as an IC

His ISO is just full of me.. only me. He just want me to get lynched.

Which is why my vote is on Skitty, obviously.

Also, I don't think you've responded at all to my responses to your case.

Metal Sonic is being flaily and wagon jumpy, and derpsih, can't tell if this is scum or town though, feels desperate to lynch someone, but might just be a combination of boredom and hydra dissonance, hard to read :/.

You just described town Sonic to a T.

On to page 93.

[Bulbazak]

huh, who is JTS-T? I don't remember a single post from that

That's funny. They're one of the more prolific posters.

He is happily lurking and om & metal have become his official attorney's.

Not lurking. Just behind and busy. Have you seen my new sig?

and the first three aren't in prod range (72 hours)

I always thought it is 48 hours.

Kise, please ignore my request for one at prior 72 hours

It's normally one or the other. Personally I think 72 hours is best, as it better takes busy schedules and weekend V/LAs into account.

calling bulba town isn't a scumtell, just a failure at reading bulba

Speaking of failing to read Bulba...

worthless doesn't equal scum

TD is #2 in my scum list but i am against his lynch today (Only he has power to change my mid, if he pisses me off more.. I will not mind lynching him today).
But my biggest concern for the day is Bulba. He is happily lurking and om & metal have become his official attorney's.

Yes I am Bulba official attorney

I can't believe you can't see what I'm seeing


I am seeing bulba town role pm

How do you have access to bulba role pm? Tell me how!!!

He hacked my account. How was I to know that he'd figure out my password was Sonic? (If anyone seriously tries to get into my account with that password I'll lol.)

>Nacho pushes Bulba for a bad AA9 scumread
>Bulba proceeds to immediately declare AA9 town
>while continuing to push AA9's case was BS

You seem to be ignoring the fact that I've been behind and couldn't logically see Nacho's case. Why is that?

Somic

Is your read on bulba a read in which you could be wrong or a result of a role? A fake day cop is a pretty arrogant play.

Stop rolefishing.

GGG also continues to post only about lurkers. Besides policy stuff, his only significant posting has been echoing others. Why is anyone thinking this is town?

Esp is scum for the bloc voting. He's not actually developing his own scumreads, but is instead hiding behind the reads of others. He did the same in the recent Lucid Dreamers marathon game by sheeping Mew (Lynch the heretic who betrayed the Cult of Mew!).

I had another point, but I've forgotten it. Anyway, the Skitty wagon needs more votes. I don't buy the town claim at all, and I expect much much more from town NS.

[Bulbazak]

@Esp: I remember playing with town you before, and you did not play like this. You seem to be hiding behind everyone else, and I don't like that.

[Bulbazak]

@Shos: Sonic knows me better than you do. Deal with it.

[Bulbazak]

so Bulba:

you keep calling AA9 out for ignoring you, but you're not interested in the fact I ignored your callout from earlier?

I actually went through a lot, so I can't remember what I called you out on. However, if you are aware that you ignored my callout, why don't you answer it? Please include quotes for context.

also you've been poking at me for a while now, but haven't put me on your scum list nor did you seem suspicious of me in the slightest in said list. why is that?

I'm not sure how to read you. I want to get a day or two under my belt before taking a serious look at your slot.

I think you're trying to go with the flow here, considering the 3 people you put instead of me are for the most part reads a lot of ppl would agree on (Skitty, GGG, Esp)

Well, if a lot of people are agreeing on those reads, why are we having such a hard time getting them lynched? Heck, I thought my Esp read might be a little controversial, seeing as how people are townreading him for no good reason. For everyone supposedly calling Skitty and GGG scum, wagons on both have stalled.

[Bulbazak]

and on top of that he handwaves basically everything AA9 is doing as OMGUS.

You mean that's not the case?

I actually went through a lot, so I can't remember what I called you out on. However, if you are aware that you ignored my callout, why don't you answer it? Please include quotes for context.

if you can't even remember what you called me out on, I'm not going to bring it back up for you .-.

however, I did answer it in my most recent post to Tammy

Okay. It must not have been that important.

are you seriously going to deny that a lot of people think Skitty and GGG are scum? those are probably 2 of the most agreeable reads in the game right now. how hard it is to get someone lynched has nothing to do with this (and if you want to talk votes, iirc Skitty and GGG both are major wagons? I at least remember Skitty was. so I don't know what you're going on about here), and I think you should be aware of that.

No, but I'm also pointing out the resistance to show you that those reads are not as easy to jump on from a "go with the flow" type perspective. There are much better reads that I could jump on if I was scum trying to skate by, TD being one of them. Skitty has just as many people townreading them than scumreading them, and the wagon only just recently started taking off again, and I predict that it's going to stall just as heavily due to the opposition. GGG is another read that everyone seems to agree with, but no one wants to push. Your point seems to be that I'm scum because I agree that both of these players are scum and that I'm going with the flow. I would like to point out that I think that they're scum separate from concensus, that I was one of the first ones on GGG, that I stayed on Skitty when people started jumping off that wagon, and that I think that the fact that both wagons keep stalling is alignment indicative. Just because a read is common does not mean that it's wrong.

[Bulbazak]

Esp is cult.

[Bulbazak]

Shall I spam for 20 pages?

[Bulbazak]

Yes. MS is that good. I think he went overboard at times, but I do think that his insistence shows town motivation, and you guys really should have listened to him.

[Bulbazak]

I just got done playing Mastin's Unbalanced Bastard Mini, and Sonic showed very little interest in finding scum or posting much in general. I compare that to the Marvel large where he was just as manic as he is here and very vocal about his reads. I know that he can town read me very fast, and that when he does, he will not let it go.

[Bulbazak]

I just got done playing Mastin's Unbalanced Bastard Mini, and Sonic showed very little interest in finding scum or posting much in general. I compare that to the Marvel large where he was just as manic as he is here and very vocal about his reads. I know that he can town read me very fast, and that when he does, he will not let it go.

okay well i say go look at organic chemistry where metal spammed the shit out of that game! what do you think about that?

Well, I did get paranoid of him there and called him scum, so...

I am totally down for a flash lynch on PereV

I'd rather give him time to get his footing.

@Ooba: Your reads are a mess. You really need to reconsider some of them.

Would anybody be interested in lynching Droog?

Also, I don't know how often I'll be able to post during the holidays, so consider me V/LA until Dec. 29.

[Bulbazak]

What's holding off the Skitty wagon right now?

Confusion mostly.

So get on bulba: scummy, hard to read, different people have expressed different opinions on him with some of them extreme and therefore decent information lynch.

You know what, I'm getting sick and tired of this crap, so this is your one and only reach out. Nacho, Wisdom, get the crap off of me, listen to Sonic, and start learning to read between the freaking lines. This wagon is crap, and you should feel bad. Is it not making either of you paranoid that it's building so fast where every other wagon has stalled? Get your heads on straight, realize that this wagon is scum driven, and get off! If I end up dying in the first day phase of this game, I will make sure neither of you ever live this down and will force you to sheep me for the rest of eternity. Do I make myself clear?

Bulba's probably town, can this end now, please and thank you.

Finally, somebody with some brains that can actually figure things out. Tammy, I'll love you forever.

Mental, can we lynch BRO please? It will lead to good things.

We're not lynching Bro. You need to get off him and move onto someone else. {Skitty, GGG, Esp, Droog} would be best.

@xay/mtd nacho's case was here btw

My response is here.

Where the fuck did this broseidon wagon come from?

It's being driven by Esp-scum.

it's funny, cos he didn't put AA9 as scum or mention her at all in his most recent reads list (the one I called him out on)

What reads list?

1. why is it alignment indicative that these specific wagons are stalling? none of the wagons in this game save the Skitty one from before have got past like 5 votes. you're also townreading TD, whose wagon stalled in a similar way.

From a game flow perspective, the Skitty wagon hit a wall and then started reversing. TD was under a lot more scrutiny for a lot longer, but that was disbanded in a fairly organic manner (mostly to do with the Sonic/TWOH fight and the subsequent move back to Skitty followed quickly by the counter wagon on me.). Compare that with my wagon, which is building quickly. The typical mode of thought is that wagons that are hard to build tend to be on scum and that fast moving wagons tend to be on town. While I don't always agree with that, I have started to see the validity, and it does freak me out if a wagon starts building really fast or if one fails to gain momentum despite many people being suspicious of that player. It's not the strongest bits of evidence, but combined with other info, I think they're more than adequate.

I also want to fact check that bit about GGG because afaik you were pushing AA9 over him, and then sometime later said they weren't scum together and thus that GGG was more likely. this (iirc, correct me if I'm wrong) came *after* a lot of people expressed suspicion of GGG and when it looked like you sure as hell believed AA9 was scum.

I wouldn't know, as I was in a different part of the game at that point. It does concern me that you keep glossing over that fact.

3. what the hell happened to your AA9 push from before? I would expect you would at least mention her in your reads list, given you still seem to be pushing her as suspicious independently of GGG. I think it looks like you're scared to actually follow through on the AA9 push.

After my concern with GGG buddying up to her, I took a step back when reading her posts. I really liked her back and forth with Sonic, as well as her yelling at everyone voting TWOH. Both were extremely town, so she's moved up to a townread.

[Bulbazak]

What reads list?

the one from the end of 2435 that I initially started asking you about

That's not a reads list. That's a couple of scum reads with reasons why, essentially still part of my catch up reaction process.

From a game flow perspective, the Skitty wagon hit a wall and then started reversing.

if you're town, I really wish you would give up on this. you're on the wrong track here and you're not reading in between the lines enough. it's pretty embarrassing that you're telling everyone to read in between the lines re: you, but haven't done so yourself.

I'm seeing a lot more scum motivation behind what NS is doing, and while I don't know what you're talking about, I do know that I don't trust you. Until I see something that even looks remotely town, my vote is staying.

It's being driven by Esp-scum.

this is also incredibly inconsistent. you just said earlier that:

Esp is scum for the bloc voting. He's not actually developing his own scumreads, but is instead hiding behind the reads of others. He did the same in the recent Lucid Dreamers marathon game by sheeping Mew (Lynch the heretic who betrayed the Cult of Mew!).

Esp was not developing his own reads but hiding behind the reads of others, and I'm pretty sure the BRO read was one of the reads you were referring to here.

Esp votes and pushes Bro. The wagon starts to pick up. While you may have started the Bro wagon, Esp is the driving force behind it, and that point is not inconsistent with what I said in the above post, since he's hiding behind your reasoning while doing so.

[Bulbazak]

Esp voted Bro. He used your reasoning and pushed hard. Attention turned hard and fast onto Bro. That's not a coincidence.

[Bulbazak]

Bro, tell me that I'm not the only one that can read the current and ripples of the game state.

[Bulbazak]

Esp took a big freaking spotlight and shone it on Bro. You want to think the attention was because of you. I get that. But the fact of the matter was that it was not. Esp started getting attention. Esp jumped on Bro using your reasoning and posted like mad about it. All of a sudden, we're getting a lot of "That's a good Bro case.". If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say to you.

[Bulbazak]

Okay, I went back over the game from Esp's hiding behind your reasoning on, and I'm seeing what you're saying. I swore that there was a lot more heat on Bro, but that might have been because Mollie/Tammy were going over the Bro case at that point in time, making me think that the tide was turning in that direction.

All paranoia aside, you do know that Esp is still the scum on that wagon, right?

[Bulbazak]

now that you realized there wasn't *actually* that much heat on BRO, what do you make of BRO attempting to sheep your point on this?

I can actually see town Bro seeing what I saw and then not reevaluating it.

Tell me what we get from a skitty lynch?

Because I currently see no upside.
I don't believe they aren't survivor at this point so we get no chance of scum flip.
They have no interactions meaning we get no information either.

Skitty redacted the survivor claim awhile ago.

This is false. I base a lot of my reads on how a player sounds and feels.

Hilariously Unbalanced Mafia: you stopped using the sounds and feels crap after the RVS vote was over. Your correct push on VoidedMafia was based on flaws in his reasoning, your correct push on Sonic/Titus was based on their crazy coasting, and your push on EddieFenix was based on him defending scum as soon as they got to be L-1. This is a more typical game for you: the current game you've been trying to play here is a bunch of feels far past the point where pushing on people because "feels" is acceptable.

You must have been reading a different game, Nacho, because you didn't get any of that right. Voided was a town cop, and I didn't figure out he was town until near the end of d1, and that was solely based on how he was posting, i.e. "feels". I figured out Sonic was scum due to his posts not "feeling" like town Sonic, and how he was coasting. I backed off once he claimed cop, which I feel badly about. You are technically correct on Eddie, but you also glaze over the fact that I know his personal habits, so there was some gut involved in that read, and I backed off once I saw evidence of Eddie as a cop and his town paranoia shining through. You're also glazing over the ProHawk town read I carried through that game, which I hardly explained at all (It was based on a misread mason tell, but I still got ProHawk town right before anyone else.). All that being said, you're ignoring that I've given other reasons for a lot of my pushes in this game beyond "feels", and that's what I've been focusing on. To chalk everything to a gut read, and then call me scum for it, is a strawman argument, and that doesn't sit well with me coming from you.

I actually don't see the problem with this. This was in response to Sonic, and I made it known that while I believed both claims, the Major one was the most believable of the two.

Here's the post:

yea but i s2g
i read her posts
and she sounds sneaky
its all like "we have daycop to do the job"
and it just sounds super duper bullshit to me
idk man

also im probably gonna have to collab with ms when he finally gets on skype or smth to go over the role claims and shit but my opinion on skitty is that skitty can be dealt with another day but today is not the day to do it. im more inclined to vote UT rather than skitty/major today if it were purely on a claim basis.

1) That's not Sonic.
2) This post doesn't talk about Skitty/Major as a dichotomy, it talks about UT/Survivor claims as a dichotomy.

Try again.

He talks about how he'd rather vote UT over Major/Skitty. My thought follows from that, although tangentially. Given how I know I'm already outed (I checked our PT before posting here.), I was originally going to post that privately, but then thought "Aw, screw it. It's a good thought, and I might get some discussion out of it.".

Do you see the problem in believing that only scum would attack a survivor claim?

I do now, but I still don't think that was a bad line of reasoning at the time. I've caught scum before for similar things in early game.

She doesn't need to look into your activity to call you out for lurking: if you have reasons, you explain them when you get back. Her not looking into his activity isn't scummy: you know this because in mastin's game that just ended you were happy to call Sonic Boom scum for coasting without looking at either's onsite activity >.>

Lurking does not equal coasting. Lurking is activity based, which is not alignment indicative. Coasting is based on the type of posts being made, which can absolutely be used to determine alignment.

It's also a massive problem that page 7 stuff was still the only thing that stood out to you when you had managed to get pretty fucking deep into a game.

AA9 had still done diddly squat that deep in the game. I felt my initial reasoning still held merit.

Then you haven't been playing in the right games, because Mastin has accused me of it before.

Where?

Newbie 1412. She also referred back to it in Left 4 Dead when she town read me (She was scum, but the point still stands.).

GGG-scum > AA9-scum. So when GGG starts piggybacking on AA9's reasoning, alarms go off in my head and I start thinking buddying, which makes me doubt my AA9 read. This is the most natural progression imaginable, Nacho, and I'm surprised you didn't see it.

Since when the fuck was GGG scum > AA9 scum considering AA9 scum was all you talked about the entire game...?

So you're just going to ignore the part where one scum read piggback's on my reasoning to talk about who I find scummier? I would think that alone should make anyone paranoid, but sure, let's talk about my order of scumminess. I have not seen one redeeming feature of GGG's posts that make me think he might be town. AA9 had points that could indicate that, but I thought that they didn't at the time. I also had several town reads saying I was wrong (I didn't ignore that.), plus I had Sonic screaming at me in the PT. The point is that while I was certain of both, AA9 was on shakier ground due to the faith I also have in my town reads.

AA9 didn't join the UT wagon.

the question of the day still remains, Can we believe UT claim or not?
Let's just say that he is being honest about this claim and he is really the person who he claims to be... A) What will we loose by lynching him? vs B) What issues we will have to face if cult gets activated? . These are questions that everyone should ask themselves to sort the UT's place. It's not really hard. It will be a choice.

I am quite clear on this... WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM TODAY. If there is any truth in his claims means.. Town have less chances to win because there is always someone stupid enough to target him, And to give more better reasons. We at least don't have to deal this issue tomorrow again. If he is scum and playing a clever gambit? its even better!!!!!!

VOTE: Tripod

you commented on this post.

First, I did comment on that post. I called it useless. Second, you are quoting 1 sentence of a larger argument out of context and ignoring the argument as a whole. This is what I actually said:

AA9 didn't join the UT wagon. She joined the Skitty wagon, which was why I gave up my theory that only scum were jumping on Skitty. And I didn't say that AA9 interacting with UT was to placate me. I said that her telling me to "chill" when I showed no suspicion of her and instead said that I was rethinking my stance on those who were jumping on Skitty after she joined the wagon was an attempt to placate me.

This was in response to you saying that I called her scum for hopping onto UT and accused her of placating me, when I had called her scum when she told me to "chill" after she jumped on Skitty. I also pointed out that her vote had nothing to do with my reasons for voting her, but rather her reaction to me when I had not even called her scum. In fact, I had done the opposite and said that I was reevaluating my stance about those jumping on the Skitty wagon. What bothers me, Nacho, is that I know you're better than this, and your ignoring my actual argument and strawmanning me in such a way is reminding me of your play in There is No Doctor.

Besides UT and Skitty, show me where I've done this.

So that's a no?

I've tried every single method that I can imagine to reach out to the three of you that I can imagine, and I am disappointed that my efforts have been for naught. Save for speaking in Japanese to you, Since it appears, that you, along with the likes of Wisdom, do not understand basic fucking English. "Bulba is town" three god damn words, and it goes over your head like I'm speaking a foreign language.

The only method you tried was repeating the same tired nonsense over and over again. You're also shutting down scumhunting on scummy people in a very anti-town way: if you are masons with Bulbazak (which is what the between the line shit seems to be saying), you are masons with Bulbazak in a bastard game, which means you should at least let other methods of pressuring him reach their natural conclusion unless you have real reasons to defend him. If you have real reasons to defend him, don't spam 10 pages with nothingness and instead just defend him with real reasons because screaming "oh you should trust me I don't know why you aren't trusting me" doesn't work when I feel just as strongly about Bulbascum as you do about Bulbatown and you won't let me even talk to him when you can't produce real reads and you absolutely lose your shit when people don't listen to you even though it's fairly obvious why people are not listening to you?

What's disturbing about this is that you should know that mods tend to lean more towards the alignment change side of things in bastard themes than the mod lie side. When Mollie mentioned the mod's responding yes to the question in the queue, she overlooked that it is the standard question regarding a bastard game, which essentially defines what elements make a game bastard. Just because moderator lies are on the list does not necessarily mean that they're in the game. Even if we are to assume that the mod might lie to us, I think that's a dangerous assumption to make d1, and I'd much rather take the Mastin tack of trusting my mason partners with my life (Heck, Mastin takes it 1 step further to include neighbors.). I'm not going to lynch in my masonry. Ever. And even if you want to be paranoid of us, you know as well as I that lynching into a masonry is bad play on d1. If it gets to late game and we're still around, then maybe you can be paranoid, but you trying to float this now reminds me of scum you trying to keep the door open on a mislynch.

Masons in bastard mods are neighbors.

Then why are there neighbors? Including both in the game and having the masons not be conf. town seems awfully redundant.

They're not masons, pie asked him and ms said no. Besides, ms is not the type to keep that hidden. He would have said so ages ago.

First, Sonic never said no. Second, I told them to keep the masonry secret. I'm not a big fan of outing PRs, and I know how game breaking masons can be near the end of the game.

Vote: Bulba

I see what you're saying Goat, however is it really pressing in such a large game?

Also can you comment on their activity in the neighbourhood in comparison to in thread?

This is scum posting.

get another wagon to lynching size
and ill jion skitty

The only reason you're not higher on my lynch list is because Sonic told me you were town and not to vote you.

Look, you needed to claim anyway. If you guys waited any longer it would have been too late to get another wagon going. And I would rather get a lynch tan a no lynch. So it needed to be forced out.

I helped the entire situation and you should be able to see that. Now work with me. We can get a heap more information on other players out of the skitty slot. Bro is hella scum and gives us information now.

I gave you a lot of support, payment time.

Seriously?! Why is no one else seeing the scum intent behind this? He excuses his opportunistic vote, which caused us to be outed, by saying that outing a masonry is a good thing and that he helped us out. There is no way this is a town mindset.

...

WE ARE FUCKING MASONS WITH BULBA

How is alignment confirmed within the masonry?

Bulb is town, bulb shares your alignment, bulb is not mafia?

Masons by definition are 100% town. It's possible to have a scum mason in a bastard game, but all the bastard games I've seen focus more on alignment changing mechanics more than the mod screwing with the town via a scum mason.

also ftr the pm said we are confirmed town with bulba

Mods lie in bastard games.

Not all the time. It's dependent on the game.

UNVOTE: bulba

VOTE: skitty

This wagon makes the most sense. Town skitty would have at least made some effort to play and scum hunt even after the gambit screwed up.

I don't like droogs play.

He is just wanting to vote the biggest wagon and not even putting any effort into developing any reads. He position of lynch someone clean up the thread is pro town on the surface but his reluctance to pick anyone is scummy.

Should I be flattered that scum is repeating me?

#not game related dont read this if u dont care

Spoiler: explanation

Hello everyone. The previous demonstration was my own social experiment to see

how many of

my friends

people would believe my reads without providing "evidence"/explanation

.

Apparently, zero.

That sucked. Although the parameters of the experiment did not include the whole town, as they were busy from Christmas, et cetera, it DID involve people whom I know and have a history with, specifically Wisdom, Nacho, Pieguy, and ArcAngel. (Most notoriously Wisdom. baka)

Despite my methods of attempting to reach out to each individual, using variants of AtE, AtH, AtP, whatever I can think of, to deliver an unchanging message "Bulbazak is town", without explanation, it appears that these methods fail in comparison to a shabby, manufactured case which I could have done in 1 post, and 30 minutes. Instead, in pursuit of the social experiment, the total time taken on "proving Bulbazak town", took more than 100 posts and a collective time of more than 2 hours. Let me just remind you that cases can be made by scum as well as town, and using that as a key base to change your opinion (Note: might not change opinion, will try again in future experiments), is extremely naive, in contrast to the effort that one puts in to yell "Bulbazak is town" for 40 pages is more than the effort put in to make a convoluted, but true case of "Bulbazak is town".

On the other hand, Tammy/Mollie believed my pleas and read Bulbazak as town as a result. It is interesting to note that they immediately faced a backlash and pressure from the Wisdom/Nacho hydra.

Although this is a small sample size of only 5, and personalities and persuasion levels may change from person to person, 80% of the blind-testing participants responded negatively to truth w/o explanation, that is, when presented a statement which seems intuitively wrong but emphasized as fact, without an explanation , it is likely that they would reject it. This is known as a veridical paradox. Parallels can be drawn to the Monty Hall problem, where a simple probability problem where intuition would suggest the wrong answer, caused more than 10,000 people, including 1,000 with PhDs(I'm looking at you, nacho, you should know better) to reject the correct answer that was proposed by a magazine. Oh, and that magazine then had to provide mathematical proof, evidence, you-name-it, and there were still people who insisted that they were wrong.

Despite all this, it should be stated that the alignments of the above 5 players are unknown, though assumed town. They might be scum, and might have their own personal agendas. However, a scum would also know that Bulbazak is town, or at least not on their team, and thus might have "joined the winning side".

Nevertheless, this experiment has led to interesting results, and I am glad that this is a social forum, or one that emphasizes on interpersonal communication, in order to facilitate this. I certainly would not have been able to enact this in real life. Although the conclusions drawn here might not apply to real life, or even possibly the next game, it is something good to take note of, in order to understand human psychology better.

Thank you.

This answers a lot of questions, actually, like how you went from being able to keep up with an arguing Bulba in Voided's Nightless Mountainous to acting like a hyperactive chihuahua in every game afterward.

om is being moody, you are much more level headed which is what we need at the end of the day.

I love om, but this is the time for you to be playing the slot.

I don't like that he's trying to split the Sonic hydra.

I'm going to keep a list of those who are trying to split the masonry and post it in our PT. It should prove to be helpful later.

I'll be back later tonight. We're starting a new Monday tradition.

On to page 113.

[Bulbazak]

I at this point think you know better than this and am considering the possibility both you and Bulba are scum masons with each other, but whatever.

That's not a masonry. That's a scum team. I can understand if you think that we're scum pulling a gambit, but if you don't, this doesn't make sense, and I have a hard time seeing how town can come to this conclusion.

Also Shos. He's also a good candidate.

Again, Shos sounds a lot more drunk than town.

I thought this was okay the first couple of times, because lol joke, but you repeatedly using this to defend Shos worries me.

Just going to come out and say that I don't really like Goat this game so far and I want Skitty around for relational reads further on.

Why don't you like Goat?

UNVOTE: bulba

VOTE: skitty

This wagon makes the most sense. Town skitty would have at least made some effort to play and scum hunt even after the gambit screwed up.

I don't like droogs play.

He is just wanting to vote the biggest wagon and not even putting any effort into developing any reads. He position of lynch someone clean up the thread is pro town on the surface but his reluctance to pick anyone is scummy.

This is a good reasoning for skitty, actually. very good. GGG is town.

You do know he essentially repeated what I said, right?

About more than one thing. I'd really love to focus on other persons playing, as I have been requested to put in effort elsewhere. However, those who are adamant in the "We're not lynching Skitty today and that's final" crew, coupled with Skitty's general unwillingness to explain WTF they did is making things difficult.

the only thing I remember about them lying was caled denying being a neighbor with you? I think that post was pretty obviously a joke and I think you're taking it way too literally. NS at the least has def trolled in a similar way before, and I'm pretty sure caled would as well.

I agree that _if_ NS hasn't yet fully explained what he did in the neighbor QT he should go ahead and do that. however,

1. NS tends to get irrationally paranoid of neighbors, so I don't particularly think the way he's skeptical about it is indicative
2. I think this is a completely dumb thing for NS-scum to actually lie about, so I don't think his lack of giving answers points to him hiding anything.

the latter point in particular is of interest (and is smth I find 99% of players outright ignore when they think they pick up on someone hiding smth) and is the reason none of this about "lol he lied about xxx" matters to me. combined with the fact that I know exactly what he's trying to do here and that it'd be suicidal to even try to attempt smth like it as scum in this scenario, is why they're basically as conftown as an IC for this.

I have no intention of budging on this read nor arguing about it. this is how it is.

the other one is that it appears they are very far behind and there is no denying that the current gamestate is pretty shit and likely impossible to catch up on with all the MS spam going on; so I don't exactly have a problem with them being apathetic, especially when they fucked up to the extent that they did.

So what I'm getting is that if I'm put under a lot of pressure, I should lurk it out and blame the game moving fast? The fact of the matter is that NS has done nothing to make me think he's town. If he had scumhunted or been protown in any sense of the word, maybe I'd consider it, but he hasn't, so I'm not moving, and I'm not seeing how you're getting conf. town from "He got caught, backtracked, and then lurked his troubles away.".

Saying that a mason in a bastard game means absolutely nothing is pretty fucking terrible

At least 2 of the people saying that are scum trying to use this being a bastard game as a smokescreen to push a mislynch.

A mental lynch gives us similar info though, and helps with the postclutter

Bulba has actually been scummy, ms has only been annoying. Above all we should try and lynch someone who has a decent chance of being scum.

Plus, ms hasn't been wagoned or discussed as much as bulba has. There have been more stances on bulba from various people. Therefore more info.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only things I've been accused of is suspecting AA9 and having a weird stance regarding neighbors. Was there more to the case, and why have you been dancing around my response and strawmanning my arguments?

I would still love to have aa9 dead today, who would be up for that instead of skitty?

Nope.

Where the fuck did this broseidon wagon come from?

It's being driven by Esp-scum.

As opposed to all the other wagons he's been trying to start and drive to end the day? Which, you know, has been his focus since he entered this mess of a game because a 100+ page Day 1 is anti-town as fuck?

First, we've already had the discussion about Esp and the Bro wagon. Second, I don't like that Esp has been solely focused on that and has not been trying to figure the game out. He's focused on pushing lynches through, not figuring out who is scum, and I remember town Esp being different than that.

this whole MASON claim thing.. Am not sure if I want to believe it.

Do you think Sonic is town? Y/N

I liked how she remained on bulba in her last post, unphased by the fact people were leaving the wagon, but she completely nullified that now :/

You better not be setting up a later push on AA9.

I'm going to get the list of people who tried to split of the masonry from the PT. Be right back.

[Bulbazak]

{Wischo, Piegami, Esp, Dramonic, Shos}

There's scum in there somewhere. Shos I'm 50/50 on. Dram fits his play so far. Esp is a scum read, so it makes sense. The statement coming from Wischo & Piegami makes me uncomfortable, because they should know better, and of the group, it feels like both of them are trying to push an agenda.

I also don't like how the majority of this game is focused on policy, in one form or the other. Policy pushes are to be expected, but it's gone overboard here, and I think scum is hiding behind such reasoning. I was going to save this for the Mason PT, but I think it's important to say: I think the town in generally is playing terribly, myself included. There is scum among the skilled players, no doubt, and we've stopped trying to figure it out and have instead just tried to get any old lynch we could without thinking it through. There was at least some attempt at the beginning and middle to do some sorting, which is why I have Mollie/Tammy and Bro as firmly town and am moving Winter Skies there too, but it's fallen apart recently. I think the end of d1 will be helpful in rooting out the experienced scum, as I think they are the ones pushing hard for lynches at any cost and are hiding behind policy and this being a bastard game, but if we don't break out of this mindset soon, this will not end up being a town win.

[Bulbazak]

They are not a cop.

[Bulbazak]

They. Are. Not. A. Cop.

I also looked back through my ISO, and I guess I didn't say anything about NS being scum for lurking and not scumhunting. I could have sworn I did. Regardless, I actually liked the last few GGG posts, especially with the clarifications and him actually engaging.

[Bulbazak]

They're caught scum who are trying to lurk the suspicion away. The Goat's mindset makes sense towards them. Theirs does not.

[Bulbazak]

This does make me think you're town, though, because it reminds me of Hilariously Unbalanced Mafia where I thought I saw mason crumbs from ProHawk and Nazerene and ended up being wrong.

[Bulbazak]

The progression is all off. I'd expect them as town to try to figure him out, either here or in their PT, but that clearly hasn't happened. This looks more like scum who tried to push hard and fast, got burnt, and have been hiding in the shadows hoping no one would notice.

[Bulbazak]

Your case is "too dumb to be scum". You need to stop it.

[Bulbazak]

Then why haven't they tried to push Goat? Why is their vote on TD? Heck, why haven't they continued to question the Goat? I would think that even if they had moved to another scumspect, they'd at least continue trying to scumhunt and figure the Goat out.

[Bulbazak]

They are not a cop.

[Bulbazak]

He crumbed NWOT COP not NOT COP.

The W was part of the first sentence. They crumbed NOT COP.

[Bulbazak]

And I think you're town for that. However, I don't feel the same way about Skitty.

[Bulbazak]

Skitty is not a cop. They are scum. And they should be lynched.

[Bulbazak]

Piegami is town for that defense. They would have shut up and let Skitty hang if they were scum, and they certainly would not have brought up the crumb. WKing when the wagon is building is one thing. WKing when the wagon is L-1 and trying to derail it is suicidal as scum and is much more likely to come from town. I really don't like ZZZX's attack on the slot.

Now if you excuse me, I have things to discuss in the masonry.

[Bulbazak]

I'm masons with Sonic. Major Minor is a survivor. There are no cop claims.

[Bulbazak]

I don't think I am, and my point is that there's more town motivation behind what Pie did than scum motivation. If you think I'm wrong, go ahead, make the argument, but I've been where Pie is before, and I'm telling you that this is a town mindset.

[Bulbazak]

@SB: I understand what you're saying, but that theory breaks down when Piegami tries to derail the Skitty wagon at L-1. If they were scum who thought they saw a cop crumb, they would have WK'd up to that point, but ultimately let the wagon go through, relying on the flip to vindicate them. What they don't do is try their best to derail the lynch, out the crumb when Skitty is at L-1 with intent, and then continue to fight it for pages on end. That's downright playing against a scum wincon at that point. I compared that mindset to me in Hilariously Unbalanced for a reason: to show that the mindset is indicative of town trying to save a PR, not scum trying to get towncred.

[Bulbazak]

Under normal circumstances, their pointing out of the crumb should have derailed the lynch.

[Bulbazak]

Bro is still scum, trying to push attention to places it shouldn't.

Where is he trying to push attention to?

Under normal circumstances, their pointing out of the crumb should have derailed the lynch.

Context is king, though.

Yes it is. And no one is looking at it.

@Somnic and Bulba: Do you guys have a masonry ability?

Stop rolefishing. I didn't want to out the masonry in the first place. If we're to reveal more, it will only be after much discussion.

[Bulbazak]

What didn't you like about the way he handled it?

[Bulbazak]

Esp, I liked that reachout. You can be town now. I need to discuss something in the masonry. I may get back to you with something.

[Bulbazak]

Mollie, do you know who is not town?

Vote Will of Heaven

[Bulbazak]

Sonic! You didn't do what we agreed to do!

Also, I'm not voting Bro ever.

[Bulbazak]

Or if you have a daykill - that's great news. I would say using it on one of {

Elric (GiF)

, Pere,

WinterSkies

, adorkable,

SouthernBellies

, droog,

DN

, MM,

BRO

} would lead to best results.

Fixed that for you.

[Bulbazak]

I wouldnt mind most of ooba targets if he includes himself and prob removes PV/gif as I dont feel they are of the DK material

Why don't you feel PV is day kill material?

[Bulbazak]

Mollie, do you know who is not town?

Vote Will of Heaven

unless this is a cop view, i am not voting nacho, bulba. I am not going to have him add another embarrassing section in his gtkas if he has scum then he has made the meta shift that I have been dreading for the better part of a year and that will make me sad cos i means he is willing to use my weakness against me. he stayed miles away from me in touhou and I told pie and wis that nacho/sakura was scum but they wldn't listen to me.

neither of them ever do but while I am used to that shit from wis it hurt my feelings when pie blew me off.

Not a cop result. However, Nacho is not acting like I'd expect him to as town. It's reminding me of his play in There is No Doctor, specifically how his cases and questioning wasn't organic. I expect a town Nacho to stay on track, not to avoid the key parts of the responses or cases and to instead focus on piddly non-issues. It's like he's trying to find some weakness to go after, instead of actually trying to figure things out.

2. dramopnic is scum and he's with bulba. see how he keeps saying 'you ahve no proof'? proof is a word that means FACT. if I don't have the proof, then it is still a fact, but I just cannot prove it. as in, "pythagoras was right" "prove itf" against "pythagoras was wrong" "convince me".

I won't vote Bulba before I see a dramonic flip

those are interesting too

bulba is prolly scum with him and he's trying to connect bulba to dram

meaning dram most likely isnt mafia either

I'm actually thinking the opposite.

theyre not masons i explained that already

We are, but it's not surprising that scum you is trying to destroy the masonry.

I wouldnt mind most of ooba targets if he includes himself and prob removes PV/gif as I dont feel they are of the DK material

Why don't you feel PV is day kill material?

No. TD is day kill material.

That may be so, but I'm not arguing over who is or isn't day kill worthy. I'm asking why he thinks PV, who has hardly posted, shouldn't be day killed. That seems odd to me.

he fake claimed daycop with an inno on him, masons, and whatever else he could think of because he thinks bulba is town.

thats all there is to it.

The daycop was obviously fake. The mason claim is not.

He can die after he gets inevitably culted.

and why are you assuming this didn't already happen?

I'd assume a cult leader would have gone for Goat or MS first.

That's a masochistic cult leader.
Also what changed that make me tots town to not liking me Espy?

I swear to god if you start another dickfight that nobody gives a flying fuck about I WILL find a way to get you killed.

Something's wrong here, but I don't know what.

Should I claim?

Discuss

I'd rather you didn't.

Because the shos scum play here is to say I will only vote for dram then bulba. Dram flips town and clears bulba. It also allows shos to scum read his buddy the whole game with a built in excuse not to vote for him and to get off the bus.

I'm actually thinking Dram may be scum with Shos, and that Shos was shoring his bets. A look at the viable wagons from yesterday should tell you all you need to know. My wagon took off. Dram was never an option. Shos could call Dram scum all he wanted and tie him to me, as Dram was never going to get lynched. However, if I got lynched, Shos could then clear Dram. On the flipside, if Dram did get ran up, Shos could bus him, and then proceed to push my lynch via the Dram-scum flip.

On to page 133.

[Bulbazak]

I think that ooba is bullshitting his reads. I think it's the most basic way to determine ooba's alignment and he proved it in his posts in day one. For one I do not think for one minute that ooba, as town, tells death note to day kill a group of people and does not update his grouping of people so much so that he actually leaves death note himself in his scum reads.

And you think Ooba as scum would include DN in the list of people to kill when talking to DN? I would think scum would be a lot more cautious.

CAN EVERYONE IN THEIR NEXT POST SAY THAT THEY ARE DEFINITELY NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR SHOS BEING DEAD.

I'm definitely not responsible for Shos being dead.

so listen to the majority wisdom

i will when they explain why bulba is town

but wait, nobody can explain that

They have. Repeatedly. It's called masons.

Should the nightvig be outed?

No.

Should I claim?

Discuss

Well... It's a bit late for not claiming I think? You're already going on your merry little kill hunt.

Can I get like a PT with nacho and Ray?

That is what I want most in the world right now. If they were both IC's that'd be even better.

Yo bitch, don't ignore me.

KBW. Was your slot responsible for shos being dead. Very important question.If you go back a page near the top you will see why it is important.

You have no reason to want to lynch me yet.

Yet?

Winter Skies, Adorkable, Ooba, PV are all horrible kills, if you're willing to shoot a VI-Mason the other one is significantly more of a nuisance. ZZZX and TD are okayish.
AA9 is not town.
For the millionth time, survivors are not harmless. Saying otherwise is a discredit to your intelligence (or reminder of lack thereof, depending on the player). The only reason Skitty took precedence yesterday is because of being a pathological liar, which requires 10 lenghts of rope itself. I'm gonna have to have a serious talk with Kise about leaving lynchers in the game and the extreme proscum impact they have, but in the meantime we don't need more free scum dancing around.

Let's try again. DN, any attempt to kill someone outside of the targets I listed will be met with swift and indiscriminate demise <3

Why is PV a horrible kill? This is starting to become a trend, and I don't like it.

I probably wont be wasting the kill on AA9. I am still open to here peoples thoughts on who is a good vig target though. If I really can't decide, I am ok with vigging the claim survivor just so I know I am hitting something not town.

I would use it on TD but I feel like we are going to end up lynching him.

You should use it on one of {Dram, ZZZX, Wischo, Droog, PV, TD}. I also don't see how TD maybe being lynched means you can't vig them. It's not like a dayvig would end the game, and it's not like we'd sit on our hands afterward, so I don't see why you're nervous about shooting there.

eeh. it could happen with town-dram too, dont see why not

The shos drunk thing was started by TD in 1219.

Dram echoed it, I don't see it as scum reading scum.

TD may have started it, but it was different from what Dram did. Dram used the drunk accusation to continually kill Shos suspicion. TD just sounded confused.

I was told that I was a Town gun owner and then there was a joke about my character not being paranoid.

That's the best way I can put. I already checked that quoting is not allowed.

That's actually pretty funny...

Well, that didn't take long to read....Anyone mind explaining to me just why he claimed?

He CC'd Skitty.

nope. At the point in time shos made the connection your wagon had not happened.

Regardless, I still think that those posts point more towards Shos/Dram, as that's a more likely scum approach.

[Bulbazak]

Unvote

Vote Dramonic

[Bulbazak]

Why didn't that work when I tried attaching it to the long post?

[Bulbazak]

@Bulbazak - so he CC'd Smitty. Smitty was revealed to be lying. I am indeed a Survivor, like he said, and I win either with mad or town so long as I live.

I am choosing to townside.

We shouldn't vig the survivor until we determine if its multiball. As if we have wolves kbw becomes a townie who only hunts wolves.

What is it with you and wolves?

[Bulbazak]

Winter Skies, Adorkable, Ooba, PV are all horrible kills, if you're willing to shoot a VI-Mason the other one is significantly more of a nuisance. ZZZX and TD are okayish.
AA9 is not town.
For the millionth time, survivors are not harmless. Saying otherwise is a discredit to your intelligence (or reminder of lack thereof, depending on the player). The only reason Skitty took precedence yesterday is because of being a pathological liar, which requires 10 lenghts of rope itself. I'm gonna have to have a serious talk with Kise about leaving lynchers in the game and the extreme proscum impact they have, but in the meantime we don't need more free scum dancing around.

Let's try again. DN, any attempt to kill someone outside of the targets I listed will be met with swift and indiscriminate demise <3

I don't understand why people read this post and still think Dram is possibly scum.

I want you to point out what is town about that post.

[Bulbazak]

that's something that scumcho definitely does, but I thought that most of the posts here have been wisdom, who I know almost nothing about except for he's a tunneler. Nacho's defense of Mollie, interaction and defense of skitty, and case on you felt town. What, from Nacho, felt like weaknesses to go after?

#2707 was a Nacho post. I responded to it in #2913 and commented on how off the questions were. I even point out how he selectively quoted my response to make me look bad. While we're talking about Wisdom, though, I have noticed that he seems much more subdued than he is as town. I would have expected more of a death tunnel in the manner of Chain of Command rather than the weaker push I'm getting here. I would also think he'd be more wary about lynching me after I claim a PR based on what happened in Chain of Command. Both heads of the hydra just don't feel right to me in how they're pursuing this.

I think that ooba is bullshitting his reads. I think it's the most basic way to determine ooba's alignment and he proved it in his posts in day one. For one I do not think for one minute that ooba, as town, tells death note to day kill a group of people and does not update his grouping of people so much so that he actually leaves death note himself in his scum reads.

And you think Ooba as scum would include DN in the list of people to kill when talking to DN? I would think scum would be a lot more cautious.

I think ooba as town would be more cautious there.

Why?

Okay I'm just going to say it. If the masons claim ooba belongs with them, I'm just going to assume they are all cult. I do not believe the game started with three masons, so both of their weird protection of someone who is scummier than scum means they probably got recruited.

There's no way cult could recruit both Sonic and I, unless you think there is more than one recruiter.

Also, as a side note, I hate whoever just eliminated our day talk.

@MS: In the PT you asked if I had an example on someone else. Who or what was that referring to, because I'm sorta lost?

Vote The Will of Heaven

[Bulbazak]

KBW, MS is a mason. Get off of them.

[Bulbazak]

Do you think he's not a survivor?

[Bulbazak]

What do you think about TD being a cop who only can find aliens?

[Bulbazak]

I'm not doubting his role. It's too specific. I'm just thinking that an alien cop benefits mafia way more than it does town.

[Bulbazak]

Hey Sonic, can you answer my question? We don't have a PT anymore to discuss things in.

[Bulbazak]

@Ooba: If I switch to Dramonic, would you join me?

[Bulbazak]

Why do you have to wait for the bomb before you can vote?

[Bulbazak]

And stop trying to role fish.

[Bulbazak]

I'll take that as a yes.

Unvote

Vote Dramonic

[Bulbazak]

Who was that in response to?

[Bulbazak]

Why do you have to wait for the bomb before you can vote?

Because it's probably gonna reset the votecount the same way the other daykills have? Like, I don't HAVE to, but I'm gonna have to revote after someone blows up anyways.

Granted, but that still doesn't mean that you can't use your vote as pressure. Saying that you're not going to vote until DN uses his bomb sounds like a cop out.

Okay I'm just going to say it. If the masons claim ooba belongs with them, I'm just going to assume they are all cult. I do not believe the game started with three masons, so both of their weird protection of someone who is scummier than scum means they probably got recruited.

There's no way cult could recruit both Sonic and I, unless you think there is more than one recruiter.

Don't underestimate the extent of my paranoia.

Point. I do suggest you keep it under control.

My potential theory is that xxxy is a traitor.

I want to lynch KBW, you in.

He totes gonna flip aleen

An alien with a survivor fake claim?

My only thing about KBW so far is that he made a point of reading his predecessors iso.

Though lynching kbw as long as he looks to be working with town will never get past mollie.

Is this a scumslip?
This might be a scum slip.
I think this is a scum slip.

Opinions?

It's not a scum slip. In fact, I've learned that they really don't exist, or at the very least are extremely rare.

Ooba is who I am leaning dayviging at this point.

I wouldn't if I were you.

Hey Sonic, can you answer my question? We don't have a PT anymore to discuss things in.

I've been defending you extremely hard the whole day, so that would have led to the premise you mentioned in the PT. So although I agree with your conclusion somewhat, I think the way you reached it is not very good. I'd like you to find another example of such behavior to support your argument better.

I don't think Wisdom becomes more subdued just because you argue with him for many pages about how I am town. In fact, I'd think he'd be even more belligerent. Chain of Command is the perfect example of how town Wisdom should be pushing me, and I'm not seeing it. I actually have another example that's similar, but that's ongoing. Wisdom is being way too much of a soft touch with his push, which is not what I expect from town him.

[Bulbazak]

That depends on if DN decides to use his ability.

[Bulbazak]

Why do you want to bomb a mason?

[Bulbazak]

Kise didn't tell me


Probably a doc

That's what I'm leaning toward. I remember thinking they were town, but I can't recall why. There's also the fact that you requested protection on both of us. Come to think of it, there might have been a Doc on you and a JK on me.

[Bulbazak]

@Sonic: I think Dork was telling the truth about tracking Elric to you. I just think Doc is a likely option. I'm actually torn, because if Elric is cult, I want to know. However, if they're Doc, I don't want to make them claim, but that might already be too late with how we're discussing this. So I'm trying to decide between voting to find out if you're still town, or not voting to try to save a potential PR.

I think I'll reread their ISO and try to see what I saw before.

[Bulbazak]

Yeah as I was reading that post, I just rolled my eyes. You mean we are discussing the possibility of Elric being a doc/cult but you don't want to out the doc if he isn't cult?

Nah... he is going to claim doc no matter what at this point anyways.

Yeah. I'm just not sure where to go from this.

[Bulbazak]

I went through both of my ISOs + the Elric one, and I have no idea how I came to the conclusion of Elric-town. It might have been because of their interaction with Wischo d1, but there's nothing much after that.

Vote Elric Brothers

I think I'd rather have peace of mind over protection.

[Bulbazak]

How is that logically correct play? Voting Elric gives you the same result, and if MS is still town, he's infinitely more useful alive.

[Bulbazak]

I agree that TD is probably scum, but this needs to be figured out today.

[Bulbazak]

How does tracking a person to MS = cult?

It doesn't, but mostly paranoia.

Then, pretty sure we are lynching me today.

Why is that?

[Bulbazak]

I double checked some ISOs based on a theory that came to me last night. Winter Skies is mafia. Elric Brothers may or may not be cult, but WS did not come up with the cult leader theory until the beginning of d2, after Adorkable would have gotten their result and shared it. The fact that WS looks in that direction immediately sets off red flags. That also means TWOH is not mafia, since they were confused by that line of reasoning, and WS had to explain it to them. They're also not alien, due to TD's results, and I'm thinking that even if mafia, TD is being truthful there. Speaking of which, TD is definitely mafia. An alien cop works better from a mafia standpoint than a town one. For town, a cop that only can find aliens is a crapshoot. A traditional cop with a town/not town result system would have worked better. However, mafia have an entire team's worth of information to use to narrow the scope. That makes it an infinitely more useful tool in mafia hands. This means that, barring any further shenanigans, TWOH is likely town. I also think that Dramonic is mafia based on Shos interactions.

We still need to lynch Elric Brothers, though.

P-edit: Adorkable was killed by DN. No clue on ZZZX. Probably the same guy who killed UT. Sonic and I are the claimed masons.

[Bulbazak]

Is it bothering anyone else that TWOH is trying to keep us from looking for other scum factions?

[Bulbazak]

We also have an alien cop, which tells us that an alien faction exists, and we have a pretty good chance of a cult leader, which you've admitted yourself is probably in the game. Cult has the possibility of quickly outnumbering the town, ending the game. There's a pretty good chance that Elric Brothers is a cult leader, and if that's the case, then we need to lynch them. There's only one reason that comes to mind why you might be saying this, but I don't want to cross that bridge yet.

[Bulbazak]

Regardless of the claim being true, TD is still scum.

[Bulbazak]

I hate it that you're using "bastard" as a catch all reason to ignore everyone.

[Bulbazak]

You tunnel me until you get a mason claim. You yell "bastard" and plod on. We see evidence of a cult mechanic (reason enough for the bastard designation), prompting us to keep an eye out for possible cult. You yell "bastard" and ignore all the clues. An alien cop reveals himself, confirming the existence of another faction, which we suspected given the mafia kill. You yell "bastard" and ignore that as well. We're at the point where I'm wondering if this is not willful ignorance, but rather an ulterior motive.

[Bulbazak]

You only wanted UT vigged, too. You have shown an inherent lack of interest in lynching any scum this game, and only an interest in lynching a specific type of scum. Even now, you're voting for Elric while saying that we should ignore the possibility of cult.

P-edit: I really don't think GGG is scum anymore.

[Bulbazak]

@AA9: He actually started scumhunting and critically looking at the game. I get that he's suspicious of you, but that doesn't make him scum.

@TWOH: For someone who is voting Elric, you seem awfully determined to convince us that cult do not exist.

[Bulbazak]

@AA9: He actually started scumhunting and critically looking at the game. I get that he's suspicious of you, but that doesn't make him scum.

He suspicious of me for wrong reasons. Which is good enough for me to think he is scum.
Adorakable was also suspicious of me.. Isn't he flipped scum? What makes you think GGG is not scum with him and trying to help his scum buddy to push my wagon. Seems legitimate reason..

Not everyone who suspects or votes you is scum. Outside of those who are suspicious or voting for you, who is likely scum?

@TWOH: For someone who is voting Elric, you seem awfully determined to convince us that cult do not exist.

misrep me more

Where do you see me being against an elric lynch?

I never said you were against an Elric lynch. I said that you're voting Elric while simultaneously telling us that cult do not exist and we should be voting for mafia.

where have I tried to convince anyone cult doesn't exist?

Didn't you just get done telling us that Black Goo was a red herring and that we should be focusing on mafia?

[Bulbazak]

Yes, because I was asked to vote cult over mafia. not vice versa like you're presenting it

I'm saying that you're voting Elric while simultaneously saying that cult does not exist. I have not said anything about people asking you to vote mafia or cult. I'm saying that you're doing one thing, while at the same time saying that we shouldn't be doing that thing.

[Bulbazak]

This is a little short, because hungry and food, but I want to say a few things before eating.

A thought occurs.

What if I'm a PGO that shoots first?

Are you bulletproof?

ffs

VOTE: dram

go squawk, owl boy

Sonic, get off of Dram. Ooba investigated Major Minor n1 to check for sanity, just like I told him to. Unless you think that KBW is town, not a survivor, then Dram is conf. town.

Reminder to self to continue from page 163.

[Bulbazak]

I doubt there's cult at this point

Lynch this with fire.

im not saying we dont have aliens or cults or whatever
but why havent we seen any evidece of them yet
ut's role hardly counts as cult evidence

and scum mollie pushed the idea that there was a cult hard

Tiph has claimed alien cop, and there have been 3 kills. There are aliens in the game. And I disagree that UT's role doesn't point towards the existance of a cult. That would be a dumb role to include by itself. There's likely a cult leader floating around somewhere, and until we actually lynch cult, there won't be any evidence of their existence. And mafia were hunting for cult, because that would be the one scum faction that would truly terrify them, and it would also help them look town by scumhunting.

So mollie obviously went after espeo, who shot her, but since they are both bullet proof nothing happened then the bullet proof piercing SK shot mollie. Will try to iso Dram shortly.

In addition, seemed to be rather confident that the kills were coming from the SK and then also tried to call the shot and be pleasant about it which leads me to believe he is very likely the cause of the other kills and not town in addition. It's like mediocre posting 101.

i dont really understand any of this
except you seem to be saying
'serial killer droog would be loud about there being a serial killer'

Typically, when the first thing that pops into somebody's head is SK instead of vig, then they are probably the SK or have evidence of an SK.

@bulba
I don't know.

I might be.

I don't think so. I think you're just a VT with a gun, essentially something to distract a gunsmith. There's no way you were lied to about being a PGO AND bulletproof.

Today we lynch any of Dram, Bro, droog, or GGG.

No, no, yes, probably not.

That's not all there is to. Which is is what was being discussed. If you had an interest in creating reads you would have done it far far earlier in the game. I even explained exactly how to do it to you and how to be a contributing member of this town and you didn't. I passed it off as not having the time but that is evidently not true.

for what its worth
though i really doubt you or anyone else cares
this game got super boring once it was the top 4-5 posters talking to themselves all the time
as if this was a social club and not a game of mafia

And you didn't try jumping in and participating? There's really no excuse about why you couldn't have been involved. You just seem to be trying to justify your lack of participation, which is scummy as crap.

Ooba investigated Major Minor n1 to check for sanity, just like I told him to. Unless you think that KBW is town, not a survivor, then Dram is conf. town.

Ok. In that case, the executioner shoots kbw. We see what he is and we confirm ooba sanity, therefore confirming dramonic alignment and whoever else he investigated.

kbw is most likely a survivor and has to go anyway, so that works

I could go for this.

Droog is scum, so is deathnote. Dram is probably town, so is espeo.VOTE: droog. Droog is the lynch today, executioner shoots KBW tonight.

I want you to explain all of this.

So I find it interesting that cult was a huge concern but is slowly drifting into "meh, there probably isn't a cult." I know I was one of the first to say that but seeing everyone else say it worries me ever so slightly.

Mostly just a point of observation.

More people are getting culted, so it's becoming less of a priority.

Can the dayvig remove winter skies or bro please?

I understand that your last two shots were to remove VIs and the whole town appreciates that, but it appears that town sucks at removing scum via lynch so having some instant deaths would be more productive,

With love,

Mason

WS wouldn't be a bad shot, but Bro is town. Stop this madness.

WS,
If you are indeed the last member of mafia team,

You can secretly curse the other scum team for nuking 2 of your members

And dramonic-probscum for giving DN a snipe shot to nuke dork

Please stop. Just stop.

cant tell if real rage or scum posturing :/

Bulba/Metal - So you guys also had obba as part of your mason club? Was there any reason why you didn't tell us about obba before?

Because there was no reason to out the final mason. Sonic hinted at it pretty hard yesterday, but Ooba and I shut him down in the PT. We wanted to keep this card close to our chests.

@bulba thoughts?

Insane Doc is different than a cop sanity. Insane is told to a Doc flat out to inform him that he might kill his patient. Cop sanities tend to not be revealed upon death. It's a difference in how the roles work. Now, I suppose that KBW could be investigative immune, but that'd be way too powerful for a role that's already swimming in power as it is, plus, I would think that it would return a "no result" message, instead of a town one. The whole reason for investigating the slot was to use it as a litmus test. There were other reasons, but I'm trying to decide if it would be best to give them now or hold onto them.

I also did a quick reads list in the PT last night, and although it's probably not as accurate anymore and needs to be reviewed, I will give what I was thinking, as Ooba thought I should give it in the thread. My thoughts are a game with 4-5 mafia, 2 aliens, and 1 cult leader, which means that we still need to find 1-2 mafia, both aliens, and the cult leader. Tiph is definitely mafia, as is WS. Droog is probably alien. TWOH would be the cult leader if anything, because they've been cleared from being the other 2, and they're not playing as they would as town.

Vote Droog

[Bulbazak]

Wait when did TWOH get cleared from being mafia?

Tiph's alien cop is a mafia role. They investigated TWOH. Hence, TWOH is not mafia.

they're not playing as they would as town.

when will you understand there's no way to define town-me

I have examples of how town-you pushes/tunnels suspects from Chain of Command and Duck Tales Mafia. Neither matches what you're doing here. Your play is way too subdued. Nacho has also been cherry picking posts, which is not a good sign from him, since it means he's not actually trying to figure things out, plus he's disappeared, another not very good sign. I would be shocked if your slot was town.

and there have been 3 kills. There are aliens in the game.

three kills?

Both nights there were two kills. piegami and shos N1, ooba and southern belles N2

Ooba was killed, and Mollie was shot twice. 3 kills in play.

[Bulbazak]

Tiph has gone way off the deep end...

[Bulbazak]

I also did a quick reads list in the PT last night, and although it's probably not as accurate anymore and needs to be reviewed, I will give what I was thinking, as Ooba thought I should give it in the thread. My thoughts are a game with 4-5 mafia, 2 aliens, and 1 cult leader, which means that we still need to find 1-2 mafia, both aliens, and the cult leader. Tiph is definitely mafia, as is WS. Droog is probably alien. TWOH would be the cult leader if anything, because they've been cleared from being the other 2, and they're not playing as they would as town.

if i was alien
why would i have claimed to have wanted to target ut
and become cult

There's this thing called lying...

oh didnt think of that

yeah i guess a survivor could actually investigate as town. they need buffs to survive and whatnot.

@bulba thoughts?

was it actually town and not just
'not scum'?
keyblade showing as 'town' seems very odd otherwise

The result was town.

Espy - I have him scummy, I think his claim and the way he claimed was suspicious as he made it like a puzzle he was trying to figure it out making it much more believable then just coming out and claiming pgo. He also on my too logical list. This read is bad but it's one of these gut reads I can't shake. Can someone run by their town read of him

It was mainly based on my interaction with him n1. I also don't think Esp-scum puts that much effort into pretending to have a confusing role. It'd be better just to straight up claim. I think his confusion reads genuine, as did his trying to figure out if he was the cause of the n1 kill.

TD - I still don't have much of an opinion on him and don't see where the scum push on him keeps coming from.

With a cop that gets results in town/not town, there's no way town has a specialized alien cop. The only way that role makes sense is on the mafia team. Hence, TD is mafia.

ENOUGH! I'm not going to just let you ought and kill me. I have valuable information, and you aren't getting it until after that damn vig has already shot someone else.

Shoot this already.

Unvote

Vote TiphaineDeath

I just realized how stupid I was being. MS, back me up here.

[Bulbazak]

Oh, also GGG, my Droog read is based on PoE.

[Bulbazak]

I think TWOH is cult leader and Droog is alien. However, I'm absolutely certain that TD is mafia, so I want to go for the guaranteed scum.

[Bulbazak]

Thanks I missed the TD results being town/not town as opposed to alien not alien. I should have caught that earlier

Ooba's results were in the form of town/not town. TD gets alien/not alien. My point is that with a town cop that gets not town results, which can catch aliens, there is no reason for town to have an alien cop. The only way that role makes sense is on the mafia team.

guys what are you doing

first we see if droog is sk or alien, if he's sk aliens don't exist and td is just vt

[Bulbazak]

bulba why can't he be a useless town role with no aliens being in the game? Tell me why you keep ignoring the possibility when it's highly likely that's the case.

Three. Shots.

Aliens exist, as do a cult. I don't get why you're so intent on ignoring all of that.

[Bulbazak]

@TWOH: Even in games where flavor is unimportant, the number of shots given usually is. And even if you want to discount flavor entirely, we're still early enough in the game where multiball shouldn't be discarded as a possibility, especially when there is a role hinting at it.

[Bulbazak]

fair enough. Multiball is a possibility. Aliens are a possibility, so is cult. I dont deny it. They are possibilities. Are they certainties? Fucking no.

When you claim that TD is confmafia because of role you take it as a certainty that aliens exist. It's not a fucking certainty.

I give you an alternate scenario where aliens dont exist and the alien cop is a useless town role only meant for misdirection. You can't deny this is a major possibility in a bastard game. Why the fuck are you discarding it?

I have my reasons.

I've been keeping up reading the thread even if I haven't been posting here much, but I feel I have a question worth actually asking.

What evidence do we have that "alien" is inherently alignment-indicative?

I mean, let's think about our crossovers. There are "alien" characters in this game if we define "alien" as non-human. What we could be looking at is a flavor-cop instead of an alignment-cop. I mean, consider this possibility. The Pacman and Sonic characters, alien. Soul Calibur, alien. Ryu Hazuki, human / not-alien. Mokujin would probably be considered alien - living wood creature thing. There's no evidence whatsoever so far that the town is "non-alien" or human while the non-town roles are "alien" or non-human. I mean, Zangief is human. Admittedly, "mech" zangief isn't quite human, but it's hardly

alien

. We can look at the mafia flips as well as the town flips. Bad servbot, metal sonic, mech zangief. I wouldn't strictly consider a robotic humanoid (mech zangief) alien, but I'd probably consider metal sonic (robotic version of an alien character) alien. Yet they're both of non-town alignment, just as Ryu Hazuki / Mokujin are of town alignment.

If you want to take this further, we can imagine other crossover characters and their relative humanity: starfox characters are all practically guaranteed to be alien, pokemon are probably alien, street fighter characters are, off the top of my head all, human, and megaman characters are highly debatable.

I find it highly highly unlikely that Tiphaine's role is anything more than a flavor cop. Useful, but hardly as directly beneficial as a town / not town distinction like you guys are putting it. I mean, without any clear evidence of it being alignment indicative, I don't follow why you're all trusting it to be so.

If the alien result is just flavor, then it would not be talking about non-humans, as the results are alien/not alien, and given the limited amount of aliens that could be pulled for a game like this, alien being a scum faction would still be extremely likely. But we've also seen from the mafia flips that Kise is not using flavor for team names, otherwise, the mafia would be called "Robotic" or "Mechanized" or "Robotic Alliance" or the like. The fact that it's called mafia, and that Muk recruited into a cult, not "slime brethern" or the like, points to Kise using traditional team terminology, even if the themes of the teams lend them to something else. In that case, I think we can say for certain using setup spec and what we've seen that alien is not a freaking flavor descriptor.

I don't really buy the whole sk or multiball thought processes

Why not? Large games tend to have multiple faction more often than not, so you and TWOH being adamant that they don't exist seems very strange.

Still want an answer to
"Why would I claim to want to target ut /mil"
If I'm a SK or alien
It's in my Iso you can see me trying to not lynch ut

Did you read my last post, or are you just posting to post?

aliens don't exist as a faction, that's how

How do you know?

Thanks I missed the TD results being town/not town as opposed to alien not alien. I should have caught that earlier

Ooba's results were in the form of town/not town. TD gets alien/not alien. My point is that with a town cop that gets not town results, which can catch aliens, there is no reason for town to have an alien cop. The only way that role makes sense is on the mafia team.

guys what are you doing

first we see if droog is sk or alien, if he's sk aliens don't exist and td is just vt

I strongly disagree with this

What do you strongly disagree with, and why?

bulba why can't he be a useless town role with no aliens being in the game? Tell me why you keep ignoring the possibility when it's highly likely that's the case.

Three. Shots.

Aliens exist, as do a cult. I don't get why you're so intent on ignoring all of that.

How do three shots break unlimited bulletproof?

Shot 1 hit Ooba. Shot 2 hit Belles and did nothing. Shot 3 was from a strongman and killed Belles. It's literally spelled out for us. 3 shots. Multiple factions.

I think TWOH is cult leader and Droog is alien. However, I'm absolutely certain that TD is mafia, so I want to go for the guaranteed scum.

Where did any of this come from?

I think you're cult, because you're not alien or mafia, and you're not playing how I'd expect you to as town. It's either you're scum of some sort, or you're playing a horribad game, and I respect you too much to believe the latter. Droog is PoE. TD is mafia due to Ooba's roles and reasons.

"Nacho's been cherry picking posts". - I always comment on posts that stand out to me: that is my playstyle. As for disappearing, I'm an inconsistent person and have disappeared from all of my games as of late, this one longer than others for what I hope are obvious reasons.

You cherry picked my response to your scum case. You ignored my points and went after weaknesses or non-issues, generally by misquoting or misrepresenting them. That is not indicative of a town Nacho, because it shows that you weren't trying to figure me out, but rather trying to seal a lynch.

[Bulbazak]

if we have 3 shooting factions
why have there not been 3 deaths in one night ever?

Given that we've only had 2 nights, it's hard to see a pattern. We know for sure that we were missing at least 1 kill n1, since mafia was killed. It's not much of a stretch to imagine the other 2 shots were blocked.

[Bulbazak]

there were never three kills

I never said 3 kills. I said there were 3

shots

. Regardless of what mods do with flavor, the amount of shots is usually pretty accurate.

also i dont know what the fuck has taken place but bulba is scum.

bullshit he's been scum all game

These 2 don't match.

I don't think Ooba was Insane cop otherwise kise would have shown on his flip.

Ooba was insane. Deal with it.

On the other hand, I want to lynch GGG. Anyone else think he is scum too?

I've actually been leaning GGG-town since yesterday.

[Bulbazak]

Flavor saying "he was shot twice by the same person" is different from "bitten to death and shot". Wisdom's pointing out that you're making assumptions that aren't really correct and are affecting your scumhunting as a whole without proof of three kills.

It says that a second shot came from the direction the killer ran to. It never said that the second shot came from the same source.

"Bulba is scum" and "Bulba has been scum" do match. Wisdom wasn't saying that the scumread on you is anything new, and that should be obvious thanks to our continued scumreading of you.

You said "What the f- happened" implying that something happened causing me to change alignement, i.e. Bulba was town, but now he's not. Then you say later that I've always been scum. Those 2 statements do not match. And don't you dare say that you've always read me as scum, because you backed the crap off once Ooba flipped.

Mafia died N1. Town died N1. How on earth does this mean we are guaranteed to be missing a kill?

Yeah, I misremembered that one.

Show me where I've misrepresented or misunderstood you this game, Bulba.

#2913, in particular, where you quoted part of what I said and left the context out.

Bulba wtf are you doing.

Arguing with scum.

[Bulbazak]

GGG started really scumhunting d2, and his efforts, reads, and thoughts come across as genuine, i.e. he's actually trying to figure things out and not faking figuring things out, a la Wischo.

[Bulbazak]

Why don't anyone else what you see in him.

I don't like it that the logic you're trying to use to disprove my read is "No one agrees with you.". I've had plenty of reads that no one else agreed with, and I've been right before. I'm not going to just drop a read because I'm the only one holding it.

Are you trying to argue that I, as an alien scum faction, would out and out claim alien scum in thread and

ask to be investigated

?

I'm actually not arguing that at all. I'm arguing that alien is not flavor related.

I'm not strictly discarding the concept of multiball or sk, I simply haven't seen any proof of either being the case yet.

Seriously? We've had a lot of proof, but people, especially TWOH, keep trying to sweep the evidence under the rug.

Bulbs: in the interest of absolute clarity, the reason why you thought that I was cherry picking your posts was because my wide brush meta of a game I wasn't even in was bad?

No, it's because you select quoted one part of a large explanation out of context to use against me, when the statement was further explained in the quote you took it from. There's no way you would have missed that as town. You were not trying to figure out my alignment. You were selectively quoting me to make me look more suspicious.

I just realized how stupid I was being. MS, back me up here.

I forgot to reply to this, but I have no idea what you mean or what you want me to do.

I want you to vote TD with me.

ok. So winters theory is prolly correct and td is flavor cop

Is no one reading my paragraph on how flavor cop doesn't make sense?

ooba has insane results, but if he hits a third party alignment, it automatically registers as town.

Lynch this now. MS/Om, if you don't, I'm going to out everything after I'm completely caught up. We have scum by the balls, but no one is listening to us. I'm going to make sure they do, and then I want a mass claim.

I am genuinely insulted that both you and bulbs are claiming that I am so stupid as to claim alien as an alien faction. Like. Really. What the fuck.

Seriously. When did I ever say this?

because ms at least has been scumreading you since the whole cult ordeal. dunno about bulba

Same.

I just had an epiphany.

What if Alien is used in the American sense. As in synonymous with foreigner. What if any character that isn't Capcom is thus an Alien?

Ok, now back to bed.

you mean being right about lynching skitty and

right about cult being a thing mafia are using for misdirection

?

If the alien result is just flavor, then it would not be talking about non-humans, as the results are alien/not alien, and given the limited amount of aliens that could be pulled for a game like this, alien being a scum faction would still be extremely likely. But we've also seen from the mafia flips that Kise is not using flavor for team names, otherwise, the mafia would be called "Robotic" or "Mechanized" or "Robotic Alliance" or the like. The fact that it's called mafia, and that Muk recruited into a cult, not "slime brethern" or the like, points to Kise using traditional team terminology, even if the themes of the teams lend them to something else. In that case, I think we can say for certain using setup spec and what we've seen that alien is not a freaking flavor descriptor.

I think you missed the entire part about the "alien flavor" being ambiguous. I agree with you that Kise is using traditional names for his scumteams, but there's no guarantee there's an alien faction or that Kise wouldn't include a flavor cop (a role that pops up in non-bastard games, so I don't see why it can't pop up here).

You're making more logical leaps than I am to reach alien being just flavor, especially since results are given as alien/not alien, not alien/human. I also pointed out that Kise has been using standard faction names, meaning that alien cop looking for a faction and not flavor significantly rises due to Occam's Razor. You then agree with all this, but then say that I'm wrong. Is everyone but me high or something?

It's not that I don't think there are other factions, I just don't see anything that points to their guaranteed existence (apart from taking TD's role at face value).

This is your second continuous point with double speak, where you say that you believe and don't believe something simultaneously.

aliens don't exist as a faction, that's how

How do you know?

Okay. Mafia is robots and aliens are aliens.

It's still multiball, how does that change the game?

aliens don't exist as a faction, that's how

do you have a non-alien character?

^Please pay attention to the context.

I did. TWOH never explained how they knew that aliens don't exist as a faction.

I think TWOH is cult leader and Droog is alien. However, I'm absolutely certain that TD is mafia, so I want to go for the guaranteed scum.

Where did any of this come from?

I think you're cult,

because you're not alien or mafia

, and you're not playing how I'd expect you to as town. It's either you're scum of some sort, or you're playing a horribad game, and I respect you too much to believe the latter. Droog is PoE. TD is mafia due to Ooba's roles and reasons.

Your masonry has cop results on the claimed Survivor and Dram. So why are you eliminating the possibility of them being Mafia?

Because TD is mafia, and he wouldn't investigate his own team mate unprovoked while looking for aliens.

And also I'm pretty sure the pple who were going "cult obviously exists" were likely the mafia themselves

We need to have a nice long talk tonight.

I don't think bulba was arguing a cult.

I am.

Deathnote is droogs scumbuddy, what do you expect?

Lynch this.

But, see, you're wrong.

Seriously. Why isn't this dead?

We no more have a serial killer than we have aliens. Some of these investigative roles have to be decoys.

On to page 194.

[Bulbazak]

I want a mass claim today, including flavor and roles. GGG's claim messed with my theory, and Sonic is not doing us any favors, so I need an idea of what we're dealing with so I don't go full paranoid. We know Goat's role, so if Sonic and I both full claim, that should leave 8 to go. I think Sonic and I should decide who goes after us, and it can popcorn from there (or we can set an order. I really don't care.).

Here goes:

Sonic lied about the nature of the masonry yesterday. We didn't know Ooba's final result. We only knew Sonic's. The masonry is filled with cops, and given my results, we're all insane. The investigations and results that Sonic gave yesterday were his own, although Ooba did investigate the same targets. We all targeted Major Minor n1 to determine sanity. Sonic and Ooba got town results. I got blocked. I investigated TWOH on n2 and was blocked again. I was finally able to get a result last night on ArcAngel9, which came back as not town, hence why I say that we're all insane. I know who Sonic investigated, and what his result is, but I'd rather he'd give it himself. If he doesn't, or if he gives it falsely, I'll give the correct result, because Kise has been lazy the past 2 days and has put the results in the PT.

Full claim is Rage a.k.a. Virtua Cop - Mason Cop.

Sonic finishes his claim next, and then we move on, with my preference being TWOH.

I'd also like to know who blocked me the first two nights.

[Bulbazak]

Also, TWOH needs to remove that vote. We have a freaking executioner, and I don't want anyone to be executed before the mass claim is over and we know what we're looking at.

[Bulbazak]

Hey bulba. Have you entertained the idea that you are all different sanities.

Like one could have been Naive, You Paranoid and the other Insane.

Fits the results you've given thus far.

I still wouldn't be trusting your results.

Could be. Unfortunately, I was blocked for two nights, so I can't know for sure. Sonic is insane for sure.

[Bulbazak]

UNVOTE: wait, guys, I just solved the whole fucking game. What if there is exactly one scum faction, no aliens, no werewolves, no cult, no SK, and literally every cop role is insane in some manner?

I haven't been paying that much attention, but 4908 bugs me.

What about it bugs you?

Can everyone post if there charactor is human, robot, wolf, a serial killer or alien.

Not that it matters, human.

And can we please get the votes off of TWOH. Although I haven't liked their play so far this game, I'm thinking they're probably town. I suspected them being a roleblocker, and the derp actions make sense coming from Wisdom.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba - human cop - conftown
TWOH - Robot, roleblocker - noobtown
Dram - human inventor - copped(?) town
MS - human mason cop - conftown
Deathnote human Governed -conftown

Bro Pit Angel who lost wings - deprogrammer
Espy - human with gun
GGG - wolf God seer
TD - alien, alien cop
Perg - human, enabler

If we take this list (because I agree with the top) and add GGG and TD to the top list (as I believe the claims are more than likely town, I've been reading GGG as town since d2, and I'm more than willing to believe that TD is derping at the same level as MS at this point), that leaves us with Bro, Esp, and PV. I think if we lynch in that group, we should be fine.

Vote PeregrineV

[Bulbazak]

Wisdom gave some indications that they blocked ne n1, where if they were scum, they would have been tight lipped about it. While I hate their play this game, their role and actions do not make sense coming from a scum perspective, but it does make sense coming from Wisdom as town.

[Bulbazak]

So winter skies claimed he was a wolf which I suspect I would have gotten a guilty on.
ArcAngel if espys claim was valid would have gotten a guilty on espy, or the 3 cops, or scum
Droog was an FBI agent. Maybe the swords (since SKs use knives) would have returned guilty or else is one of the humans a killer
TD is an alien cop so where is the alien character that would give a false guilty.

I'm pretty sure those were all misdirects and not related to flavor.

And your reflex to that is to lynch him?
Hey, let's give them those two nightkills they want.

We also have 2 blocks and 4 investigations. That sorta evens everything out and has a chance of stopping the kills. I don't want to even consider 3 scum left, so we essentially have this game within PoE range.

We don't even know if we can trust that you have a roleblock

They do. I got blocked twice, ms was blocked once, and they hinted at it d2.

[Bulbazak]

Okay, I'm just going to break it down why PV is the best lynch. His ability is going to help us out more in the long run, while he also has an outside chance of being scum.

As scum: Lynching him gets us one step closer to winning. The claim has been the only thing keeping PV alive, as his play has been rather lackluster, which tends to point to PV-scum. Seeing as how he's in the group of 3 I PoE'd the scum team to, he's not a bad lynch.

As town: His ability will allow us to double up on our night actions. Sure, scum will get 2 kills, but those kills can be stopped if we're good. Either way, his lynch is good as town because:
a.) Scum could always execute him. This would give us a second lynch if we're wrong, which means another chance to lynch scum. And given that I have a pretty good idea of where scum is hiding, that would mean we'd more than likely hit scum on our second go and have an even greater chance of stopping the kill and finding the remaining scum. Any executions that scum go for at this time would be with the caveat that they might be able to get to a win sooner, so they might chance it with a PV kill.
b.) He's lynched with no execution. This still allows us to double up on our actions, and we should be able to figure out where scum are for a win.

As I've said before, MS, myself, Dram, and DN are conf. town. TWOH is extremely likely to be town. GGG and TD might be scum, but I find that unlikely. Bro, Esp, and PV are left via PoE, and I find PV to be the most suspicious out of the 3, with Bro the least. If PV is executed, we lynch Esp. Wischo can then block Bro and one of GGG/TD. If PV is lynched, Wischo instead blocks both Bro and Esp. MS and I should both be able to use our 4 investigations to find the last scum out of the conf. town pile. PV is, therefore, the best move.

[Bulbazak]

Why do you think Bro over one of them? I think GGG's actions today make it more likely to be him.

I've liked Bro's play for the most part, but I've had a lot of dead town telling me I'm wrong. This late in the game, I'm trusting PoE a lot more over my reads based on play, and Bro's claim does not make me think absolute town. In fact, all things considered, it would probably be a good fake claim. I put GGG and TD in a separate category, because we've seen examples of those types of roles via flips, so it's not much of a stretch to imagine their roles existing. Also, from a play perspective, GGG's play has reflected his claim, and his play from d2 on gave me strong impressions of town. If anybody is suspect in GGG/TD, it's TD. I just put Bro/Esp as more likely, because their claims are the most suspect.

Let's for a moment assume that I'm right and that TWoH is scum. We lynch PV town, he kills you both and blocks me.
Tomorrow we lynch him, he flips scum, scum kills someone at night between me and DN.

4 player, no lynch, scum kills the other of me and DN.

3 player endgame between BRO, GGG and TD.

SOUNDS EXCITING.

The way TWoH played his role leads me to believe he's not scum. If he is, then he put up quite the performance in anticipation that I'd survive, which was unlikely, as he was trying to get me lynched. I just have a hard time believing that they would play scum roleblocker in this way, and it makes more sense coming from a paranoid town Wisdom.

random thought

dram is a third party who wins when the majority have used one of his inventions

That's impossible, because he would have shown up as town when MS investigated him.

dont forget that even if one mason survives, we have all 4 results.

Maybe. Sonic lied about getting Ooba's final result. They substituted their own in. The mod is just being lazy and posting results into the PT instead of sending us PMs.

Also have we worked out cop sanitizes yet so the investigations are reliable?

For the most part. We know Sonic's for sure. Mine is a little more hazy, since I only have 1 night to go off of (It sure would have been nice not to be blocked n1.). If I'm not paranoid, I should know once I hit scum.

[Bulbazak]

TD is spouting BS just to avoid being blocked.

[Bulbazak]

Actually given the maths, I think Dram is even more likely to be mafia because he was vehemently against an idea that was positive for town given the information in play, but then perked up when P5 flipped BP instead. However, given that it will become obvious as soon as he stops cooperating with town in a PR sense, he isn't the lynch for today.

Unless you think he's a godfather or investigative immune on top of his inventor, then this is not possible. I'd rather trust the results when it comes to Dram, instead of descending into full fledged paranoia. I'm considering him conf. town. He's off the table.

[Bulbazak]

Vote Espeonage

Better lynch.

[Bulbazak]

Although I don't think TWOH has played well this game, I don't think they're scum or today's lynch. They may not be conf. town, but they're pretty close. And if they are scum that have slipped past, we can find that out very quickly during the double night.

[Bulbazak]

I was watching this game and it was hilarious. I thought TWOH could be town D1 but the most hilarious moment was when I realized Nacho's push on Bulbazak exactly matched the push in Micro 248 and I was almost wondering why he would try the exact same tactic on the exact same player again and I felt sorry for Bulb.

You saw that too? That's why I reached the TWOH-scum conclusion at the end of d1: Nacho's push felt like he wasn't trying to figure me out at all. And then I derped after they claimed on d4...

All Nacho hydras are just Nacho, except maybe 50 shades of purple. That hydra is just everyone asking for Nacho and mollie getting frustrated by it.

I know, right?

I wld like to point out that we were bullet proof who got hit by the only players who had a nk.

I'd also like to point out that MS got a guilty on the godfather.

[Bulbazak]

That's just a godfather that flips town.

[Bulbazak]

I've never played with that variant before.

[Bulbazak]

So a Death Miller should be a Death Miller Miller?

[Bulbazak]

I've always seen Death Godfathers/Millers as godfathers/millers whose role affects them even in death. That's the only way I've ever seen them used in games. It also makes the most sense, given that they're a variant of the godfather or miller role.