Tarot uPick II - GAME OVER

[Wall of Fire]

Wall of fire, activate!
(Ironically, we are not actually fire. Ceph'd probably yell at me if I said which element we were, though.)

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(Also, we maaaaaaaaaaaay suffer a lil' bit of dissonance. No QT, no PT, no chat, we're kinda winging it at the moment. For instance, I maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay already have something impulsive in mind... )

(Also, internet's a bit on the fritz; above message typed at 3:30 PM my time, may not be posted until later. My post was the last one when I typed the above, anyway.)

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VOTE: Oil Tycoons
Hi guys. This is a game with a fuckton of hydra, so we all need to be considerate of our postcounts. Please please please try to keep them under control, if someone's posting gets over the top out of control they need to be purged. That is all.

notty if you don't town it up and town it up soon I will lynch you.

Vote: Oil Tycoons

Before Nacho can swoon us all.

I think this is scum, but I'd need to double-check some things to be sure.

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Hello!

I'm against hyper-capitalism, but trains are good for business, so I can't tell whether I should vote Oil Tycoons or not.

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VOTE: LynxKuroneko

If I said this vote was serious, would you believe me?

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Bullshit.

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Let's move beyond this topic and progress to the next phase of the game, wherein we build a wagon on LynxKuroneko.

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No.

In at least one fashion, you would be wrong. It's just serious in a different way than "serious" is usually meant in that context.

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After about two seconds of research, I have decided it is probably not an alt.

It didn't even take me two seconds to decide that I don't care whether it is or not, so I cannot explain why I still tried to determine that.

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I'm not Mastin, but I'm flattered that you thought I was.

I don't want to explain right now!

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There's a system? Huh.

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Thou shalt not underestimate the Cabd.

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Tonight's news update:

WOF vote is still best vote. Vote with WOF.

Obey WOF.

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Think what? That my vote is a good vote? Because it's an objectively good vote.

*waves fingers mischievously*

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Live a little! Let yourself be free! Follow your heart's desire, which of course, is to do the WOF's bidding.

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You are not supposed to.

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Though it should be noted that I legitimately find his confirm post scummy.

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lynxyboy

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But that isn't the real reason I'm voting for him.

Man, I suck shit at being mysterious.

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Yes.

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Also, we maaaaaaaaaaaay suffer a lil' bit of dissonance. No QT, no PT, no chat, we're kinda winging it at the moment. For instance, I maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay already have something impulsive in mind...

Why did you decide to go with this strategy?

Well we have a PT now, but it's not really that we decided to go with a strategy, so much as...well, that's what happened. Ceph warned me before the game began that he's pretty bad about correspondence, and when he didn't immediately make a topic, I just made the assumption he wouldn't. (He...sort-of did? By repurposing an old one, I think.)

Unpopular opinion: Oil Tycoons are actually scum.

/4.

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So, no response to this? The fire thing must not have meant what I thought it did.

It might, with adjusted targets.

So yeah what nachosyr said. In fact they were on the receiving end of most of those scum games.

That was us, not Nachosyr. Nachosyr is a different hydra.

Specifically it was Ceph since obviously, I'm here now.

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VOTE: LynxKuroneko
If I said this vote was serious, would you believe me?

That is such a mastin vote.

Look, I can get people thinking

I'm

Ceph. After all, I'm notorious for faking the style of my hydra partner when hydraing, just for the lulz.

...But how the hell can someone seriously see a Ceph post as being me? His tone's completely different.

Tho im not a mind reader and that person only has 1 post so i have no idea.

Bingo.

(At least I think.)

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Huh, never heard of this, but it's a nice piece of music. Thanks for showing me, Ceph!

mastina- I'm not really confident in my ability to read her, plus she hasn't actually posted yet.

Had

so

.

My RVS posting is my most important posting. Or confirmation-stage posting, as it were.

It seems to be very much a Cephrir action and not a mastin action, which is significant to me and will come into play once I see how mastina interacts with the situation she's inherited.

I approve of Ceph's product and/or service, there's that.

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As for now, it's not a concern; I don't think the reasons actually exist that make the Lynx wagon a good one and don't think the majority of the town will follow and so Cephrir will eventually be forced to abandon or explain

(I'm constantly amazed by how much more effective my yelling about various things is so differentially effective depending on the personality I'm emitting)

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I approve of Ceph's product and/or service, there's that.

Well this is disappointing as all hell.

Perhaps it is related to understanding the product!

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[not caught up]

Hello Pie! And Fire is Mastina/Ceph. Ceph...will be disappointed that WE shall become quieter in the morn

when you're right you're right

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For the record, I'm scumreading him. I dislike how his reads are lacking in reasoning, specifically his scumread on my slot which appears to be slipping a vote on the player of the day, while not providing an inkling of a scumread or any indication of his thought process.

VOTE: kuroko

btw Echo Echo asked me to hydra as well, but I refused. I'm pretty sure I know who he is, too.

This seems like a very lazy attempt to slip on a vote on whom he thinks is the largest wagon -- he might not be aware that there is only one vote on me.

I'd expect town to at least say "Oh, and Kuroko is scum", or "I agree with Tammy's points" before making that vote. However, his subsequent statement does not have any link whatsoever to any reasoning for his vote.

Also, I doubt he knows who I am.

:/

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You continue to obfuscate by pursuing a line of questioning that eventually provide little of value to the overall gamestate.

You have yet to consider the posts of players in a holistic manner and deduce their alignment.

You fail to provide reads on more players despite your self-proclaimed genius at catching scum in the early game.

In short, you're not scumhunting. Ergo, you're scum.

VOTE: Kuroko.

Here is a link to Wisdom's most recent Large Theme non-ongoing scumgame.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62167

To those of you who were following the game: Do you want this? Do you really want this?

Vote for a better tomorrow. Vote Wisdom.

So now it's a policy lynch?

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I think that OT is town.
I think that Tammy is obvtowning, but it still has something about it that could be faked to me.
I think that Ika is town.
I think that Zelink is hilarious.
I think that Luna Fox is town.

I think that I formatted this post oddly.

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Also, I wanted to push Lynx because in a sample size of one game I observed that he responded to pressure as scum by flailing. But we'll probably know his alignment by day three anyway, as I don't think reading him is hard.

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oh yeah Tammy what did you think of Bert's posts around the time of our argument? It seemed to me a really town Bert thing to do to ramble on about his paranoia of me while we were fighting, has good progression because he asked you about your read on me earlier I think. I especially liked the part where he accused me of placating and reassuring him when he got defensive.

Not that you asked me: I am now townreading Bert.

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For the same reasons I am or...?

Yes, because of your post.

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i don't buy that being a post restriction. It's just zelink thinking he's being funny.

he is correct though >:

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Please continue to post irrelevant bullshit in response to being caught. I'll wait for the other players to follow my lead, and you shall be forced to night kill me, failing which, the rest of your team will go insane and crumble as I pick out their brains one by one.

I'm trying to decide how I feel about this response to wisdom.

only i am allowed to be an overconfident jerkwad. #doublestandards

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Wisdom's posting is, put bluntly, scummy as fuck. I think he can be fairly transparently read based on the level of conviction and effort he puts into his pushes, and his push on our slot is severely lacking in that department. There's no pointed questioning and no actual "push" anywhere towards us during his push on us (rather than actually, you know, providing actual reasons for using be scum here, he spends all his time talking about who he thinks Echo is). I want Nacho to tell me if/why he disagrees with this when he gets back.

No it's not

pickup & also emphasis that this response applies to each separate sentence of the quoted post

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I don't like the way Cephrir is handling this, and his above post is no exception. It's not scum hunting, it's him seeing votes on us and thinking he can go along with it while hoping no one realizes his push doesn't hold water. 477 is nothing but semantic nonsense (it's fairly obvious Echo's point is that Wisdom does have reasoning behind the read on us, just that it's incredibly poor). The post where he voted us (Echo's 421) is actually a fairly concise explanation of what is wrong with Wisdom's play here, followed by more semantic nonsense (Echo wasn't even suggesting a policy lynch in that post).

I don't mind AJ's vote as much.

I am not especially scumhunting yet, I just felt something was an incorrect representation of events and voted it. When have you known non-alt Cephrir to be seriously scumhunting on page 20?

I don't feel that I have seen Wisdom push you at all really until you brought the issue up, and that post definitely reads like "wisdom is dangerous scum/not fun to play with so we should just lynch him"

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I hate it when people get antsy about there not being enough objections

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I don't feel that I have seen Wisdom push you at all really until you brought the issue up, and that post definitely reads like "wisdom is dangerous scum/not fun to play with so we should just lynch him"

Yes, that is exactly my point.

If Wisdom actually thought we were scum, he would be doing a hell of a lot more to push us over it than ... what he has been doing.

i feel like we are really not on the same wavelength

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Why do you want to build a wagon? (Please understand that this is my first game with y'all, so I may be missing obvious sarcasm/metas).

Because that is how you make things interesting.

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yeah that whole post is pretty wonky tbh.

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I am not reading these anymore.

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Hi Bert!

I've missed you.

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Skim heavily, they really aren't bad posts.

From the ones I did skim, I find his trajectories disturbingly static.

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Granted, my reading was primarily narcissistic.

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It's Zelink. He's definitely fucking with us.

Wrathful sons of Dhrita-rashtra, born of Kuru's royal race,

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Waiting for Mastin to explain or followup on that scumread on my slot.

No.

Also, stop posting so much.

I'm reading the posts.
In one ear, out the other. They're just noise to me.

The value of posting has become devalued.

Greetings, everyone. My name is ZeL1nK2 and it is a pleasure to be playing with all of you fine people.

Spoiler: reduction

ego

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this post. On the one hand, I believe the honesty with which he is claiming he is egotistical is rather genuine and genuinity is definitely a trait I associate with town players, but on the other hand it's almost like he's taunting everyone... Like he's saying, "hey guys, I have a big ego and I don't care about what any of you think!" and that seems rather scummy to me, to be perfectly honest.

I am conflicted about this read and will need to come back to this later.

/confirming

This seems like a rather null post overall. Perhaps something could be read into the lack of grammer but I would need to do a lot of research into her playstyle to determine this. I will put this on my list of things to do in this game. In fact, I will make it a top priority. Because it seems a rather important thing to do.

Here.

This is blunt and to the point and has a townish ring about it. It doesn't feel like a scum "here".

After reading three posts, I have 20 null reads and a null-ever-so-slightly-leaning-town read. I am satisfied with my progress thus far.

con... /firmly resting upon my pillow

This is very clever but is it... too clever? Scum are usually pretty clever and cleverness is definitely not a very common town trait, so it is entirely possible this was a scum slip.

For the moment, I will declare that I have got my eye on Medea the Alien. And it's my lazy eye, so she will never know where I'm

actually

looking... Beware!

/confirm

This post feels like a poor imitation of Luna's post. That said, it could be a poor imitation of Luna's post coming from either alignment. Perhaps he is town who is incredibly lazy. Perhaps he is scum who isn't sure how to confirm. Who knows~!?

/confirming my side of the hydra <3

Why did Bins feel the need to specify "my side of the hydra"? Does Bins feel that we would have otherwise been confused if it were not specifically pointed out?

The condescending attitude in this post gives me bad vibes and I feel this could very well be coming from a scum mindset.

/confirm

pedit-

SON OF A BITCH

I am not getting the feeling that the rage presented in this post is genuine. It feels almost... flippant in nature. This could potentially be because Fluff Central is not entirely sure how to present genuine emotions as scum.

Or maybe I am reading too much into this and perhaps Fluff Central was declaring that somebody was the son of someone whose first name begins with an A and whose surname is Bitch and was merely stating a fact.

I should consider all options before I jump to conclusions, I suppose. Hmm.

Can we all just agree to label hydra posts? I don't remember half of you.

/confirm

I will not be labeling my posts.

#Rebel4Lyfe

I am not a huge fan of this post overall. It feels a lot like he is trying to give off the appearance of being a reasonable, helpful and considerate person, albeit slightly forgetful... But it feels like it's being done with an ulterior motive. I feel like he's trying to win people over so they won't realise that he's scum. It's almost unfortunate for him that I am just one step ahead. Too bad, Aj the Epic... I'm sure you had everyone else fooled.

confirm & ego.

Ah, Pumbaa. We meet once more. I didn't picture you for an egotistical warthog, but now that I look a little closer, your picture has a really,

really

smug look about it.

If I may ask, why are you being so smug? Is it because you're a bad guy who thinks he has this game in the bag? Or is it because you will strik down upon the bad guys with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy your brothers, and they will know your name is Pumbaa when you lay your vengeance upon them?

2. I don't mind if you use nicknames/abbreviations when you vote someone.

Please note: I am using an automated vote counter to generate the vote counts. There could be a glitch here or there. Please let me know if you notice any votes that are missed or incorrectly assigned.

I hereby accept your challenge.

This post feels rather aggressive, and maybe not in a good way. What challenge are you accepting? Why are you accepting it? What were you even hoping to achieve with this post? It feels a bit like you're putting on a show in order to appear like you're relaxed but I see right through you.

I also feel like a lot of the analysis you're providing thus far has been rather void of meaningful content. It feels like you're trying to come across as whimsical so as not to be perceived as a threat to town players and I can't say it's making me feel good. It feels like you're writing almost too much in the hopes that people's eyes will glaze over your entire wall and just write you off as town for writing lots of stuff.

But you don't seem to realise that people don't like players who write wall posts. Especially wall posts that are light on real content. And people especially don't like it when you analyse your own posts because that makes them feel like you're manufacturing what you're saying. Speaking of which, this whole post feels manufactured.

Also, I am at once both eagerly curious about how long you're going to keep up this silly gimmick of responding to every single post, and horribly dreading having to read through it all, lest there be a nugget of useful content somewhere through with which I can read you... I may just end up policy lynching you out of sheer annoyance.

Hi

I've stared at this post for a good half-hour now, and I am nowhere closer than I originally was to determining whether or not this is a town or a scum "hi". If anyone else would like to chime in and perhaps give bounce opinions off me about this, I am all ears. Or all eyes, actually, since I have difficulty hearing text.

ego weeeeeeeeeeeee

Hmm. I get the feeling there's going to be a rather big clash of egos this game. Far too many people seem rather narcissistic. I hope things don't get too out of hand.

I'm also beginning to think that perhaps having an ego is more of a playstyle thing than something to do with alignment. It can't possibly be that the entire scum team is scum telling here, could it!?

/confirm

/confirm

/confirm

I would say odds are decent that one of the players who posted here is a bad guy.

Let me do the math...

Yeah, there's about a 60% chance that at least one person in any random group of three is scum in this game (assuming five scum). I am rather happy with making this call. I think I will be lynching from this pool of players today.

(fire is bad for business)

I think that depends on what business you're talking about, doesn't it? Fire is pretty good for, say, a chef.

I am almost tempted to lynch you for lying, because lying is not a town trait, but I've already decided on my lynch pool today so I might let you off for now.

Or at least I thought I'd decided on my lynch pool, until I saw this...

/confirm

/confirm

/confirm

The rule of probability hasn't failed me so far (I'm yet to be confirmed wrong about my guess of at least one bad guy in that other group of three), so I think it's fairly safe to also say there's a bad guy in this group of three as well.

I am very happy with the progress I've made thus far and look forward to winning a relatively easy game.

Reading page two shortly.

Nice try. 7/10.

[Wall of Fire]

zelink please stop walling. I didn't read a single word you posted, nor do I intend to.

Zelink is doing a (very, very poor) job of parodying my posting.

[Wall of Fire]

Also,
VOTE: Wisdom.

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Wisdom's posting is, put bluntly, scummy as fuck. I think he can be fairly transparently read based on the level of conviction and effort he puts into his pushes, and his push on our slot is severely lacking in that department. There's no pointed questioning and no actual "push" anywhere towards us during his push on us (rather than actually, you know, providing actual reasons for using be scum here, he spends all his time talking about who he thinks Echo is). I want Nacho to tell me if/why he disagrees with this when he gets back.

No it's not

Apparently we're gonna need to arrange a talking-to.

[Wall of Fire]

@bolded piece - such as?

Secrets for the cool kids.

Are you implying fire is bad, and why?

Fire's always good, especially when taking impressive forms. Like a giant wall.

[Wall of Fire]

No.

No. This is one of my towngames at its highest level. If you're interested in fixing what's broken between us, you have to learn to distinguish playing from seriousness.

Technically I was saying, "No, I'm not going to follow-through, because I don't feel like saying anything", but fine. You reached out, you can have it. <3

Town.

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Though it should be noted that I legitimately find his confirm post scummy.

Are you a ring?

Did you know why I asked this?

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I really just don't see Wisdom as having even started playing yet.

Righteous sons of noble Pandu, god-born men of godlike grace,

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I'm the one who doesn't think you're scum.

I don't think you're especially town either, but...

Skill in arms attained these princes from a Brahman warrior bold,

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Oh look, the cavalry arrived. How cute. Welcome back, Wisdom.

There has been no push on Kuroko, or anyone else, from me, therefore arguing that my push on them is weak and different than how I push as town is bullshit, because simply, I have not pushed them.

See, this is the problem, right here. You're misrepresenting my argument. I never said that you were pushing us, my issue lies in the fact how you

didn't

push us. You slipped a shit vote on us with horseshit that is meant to make you look like you have something worthwhile doing.

Speaking of your pushes, where have they been? Surely you have caught up already. After I've knocked you out of control in the game, your scumface has nowhere to hide and is ripe for the noose. As town you would already have obtained a couple of townreads on people, and scumread at least one person, while pushing or defending them as the situation calls. Right now, you're voting someone you aren't even scumreading. This is not even town behavior, not even for your standards.

Wait, I'm supposed to let the "Yes Wisdom meant to vote for the largest wagon but is blinder than Stevie Wonder" go? How is the pure fabricated bullshit of 'he didn't read a vote count' a legitimate belief?

You fool. The entire topic of discussion was about myself for the past few pages. Just after your post, it came right from the horse's mouth that he was "sheeping" strong town voices. It comes as no surprise that he decides to put a vote on the easiest target (keeping in mind that your largest aforementioned wagon had only three votes) while fabricating justification that doesn't really pass the bullshit test. Meanwhile, you continue with this elementary angle of attack based upon your incorrect semantic assumptions about the crux of my argument, while ignoring the main motivations behind my push on Wisdom.

And then you want to tell me a naked vote is more null to you?

Did I not already make a statement that a naked vote is null, while one that is embellished with bullshit to look like a reasonable vote is scummy? Then I'll say it again.

But by definition, that's a naked vote. So you like select naked votes by select people. But now the fact that he didn't explain his town reads is an issue and, on the vote, it was unexplained and so also an issue. And certainly, WoF's vote on you had the prior reasons of, and I quote, ":/". There are quotes where he specifies what makes him ":/" but nothing much more than Wisdom's own vote. You're picking and choosing what you like, not by some scum tell, but by preconceived notions.

This is a strawman argument. Continue defending your buddy with semantic bullshit while twisting my words to fit your agenda. Wisdom's vote included overtly unnecessary redressive action that was inappropriate for an ordinary town-motivated "naked" vote. Feel free to call it whatever it is you wish, maybe a "clothed" vote. Because underneath, it's just skin and bones.

Aj The Epic diving in like Wisdom's knight of shining armor while delivering misrepresentations of my argument only confirm my belief that I have caught two scum, with one case.

Tell me, Aj, for the record, are you townreading Wisdom? Why?

(I've noticed some new posts, will get to them in my next post.)

My keyboard is broken but this post is scummy as fuck and I have about a million problems with it and I haven't even read the second half yet

[Wall of Fire]

VOTE:

Z

eL1nK2 Muffinman
>Has a scumread on me.
>Is actually zMuffinman.
>I am town.
>Therefore, is scum.

[Wall of Fire]

scumfuckery

My keyboard is broken but this post is scummy as fuck and I have about a million problems with it and I haven't even read the second half yet

Your keyboard is broken
but you manage to call this post scummy
yet your vote is still on Wisdom?

Am I wrong about you, Ceph?

I don't know how much I like this jumping down of throats.

I used a godawful pop up keyboard to click on the letters, and mastin voted for Wisdom and I didn't feel like fighting over the vote every post.

I want to pick apart Kuroko's crap on this page but it was so long ago now that it feels like a waste of time, I will just pick apart whatever crap they have on more recent pages.

[Wall of Fire]

My running theory is that it's scum enabled, and scum in the hood were supposed to play silent and not slip they had access to the hood (very much like how in Touhou upick 2, scum could see mine+pie's mason PT, but we had no idea sans me speccing it.) This is very upfront about the fact we don't fully know who is in it, and it was everyone's option whether to post or not.

I'm not sure its so much of an eavesdropper role as scum were intended to not post in it and just try to gauge town's reaction.

I think it's a bit of both - the eavesdropper are scum who have access to the PT and they can CHOOSE to either stay silent, or contribute. Having the eavesdropper be scum who must remain silent in the PT essentially renders members of the PT as confirmed townies.

This post is remarkably above the level of insight displayed by your other posts thus far.

[Wall of Fire]

the amount of meta babble in this game is too damn high

also damn it i forgot about my gimmick already oh well

[Wall of Fire]

But this felt somewhat townish because it's kinda rare to find cheeky scum who taunt and sound confident in mislynching someone.

is it?

[Wall of Fire]

I don't post on weekends much since like October of last year, I might show up but certainly not if my keyboard is broken. Get used to it people!

[Wall of Fire]

hahah

hahahahahaha


hahhehaeaheaheheaehaeheheeh


VOTE: zelink

[Wall of Fire]

Why do you think wisdom is town, ceph?

I think wisdom is town?

[Wall of Fire]

Also am more interested in him discussing wall of fire.

Hint: His opinion is that every post we make is bad because that is what he decided to think on page one

[Wall of Fire]

But this felt somewhat townish because it's kinda rare to find cheeky scum who taunt and sound confident in mislynching someone.

is it?

I think it tends to come from a certain type of player, and that type of player that delights in being scum and is confident in their abilities isn't very common.

I suppose. I wouldn't run around making assumptions about someone who's an alt though.

[Wall of Fire]

Why do you think wisdom is town, ceph?

I think wisdom is town?

To my mind, endorsing the KN wagon implies that you don't consider wisdom to be suspect, at the very least.

I am incredibly neutral on Wisdom.

[Wall of Fire]

Also, I don't know whether that was intended as a joke. I read it as serious.

[Wall of Fire]

ceph does mastin not explain her votes to you?

Our hydra topic is pretty dead.

Such scumtell.

[Wall of Fire]

I think that's a pretty reasonable expectation

[Wall of Fire]

If that sounded annoyed, it wasn't supposed to

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Not especially. I don't think mastin has been overwhelmingly town this game.

[Wall of Fire]

(Or that I've done enough to warrant a townread)

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(And it's not like you didn't explain it...)

[Wall of Fire]

Aneninen

(3): Aj The Epic, Kuroko Network, Wall of Fire

ZeL1nK2

(1): Aneninen

Mod:

Quite impressively, the automatic vote counter missed not just one, but TWO votes from our slot going onto Zelink, one from each head. (Me then Ceph.)

VOTE:

Z

eL1nK2 Muffinman
>Has a scumread on me.
>Is actually zMuffinman.
>I am town.
>Therefore, is scum.

This is a terrible reaction.

No, it's dead serious.

Frankly, there's a bunch of stuff I haven't read. Basically all of the stuff from pages 30-50? Whatever my last post prior to 1255 was, to the point Zelink alt-slipped, was all, entirely, not read by me.

However

, two things happened yesterday. One was, on a whim, earlier, I isoed Zelink. Frankly, prior to that, I hadn't read any of his posting on me whatsoever because I knew he was trolling and doing a bad parody of my posting style. Yet for some reason, god only knows why, I took a look and realized via an iso of Wall, WoF, mastin, and Ceph (key words in his iso) that not only were we a serious suspicion of his, but basically his

leading suspicion

. Beyond trolling.

I paid no heed to it at the time, because Zelink is Zelink. I hold no expectations of him to be better than that. I consider him competent, sure, but I don't particularly pay much attention to a misread, even if it's a major one like that.

Then, something else happened.
Just after I had logged off, for the night, I noticed in the Theme Park that Zelink was the latest poster. I impulsively clicked the link, in spite of not having read those pages. And then, I saw who Zelink was. Zelink scumreading me above all others I pay no mind to.

zMuffinman

, on the other hand,

damn fucking straight

I'm going to pursue. Because NOT ONLY is there a scumread there, BUT ALSO it is his NUMBER ONE SCUMREAD IN THE GAME. On me. Who he has perfect accuracy on.

Serums and Steel doesn't count, because in that game, I was playing my scum meta. I didn't know how I was, I didn't know why I was, I desperately tried to get out of my scum meta, yet for some reason, as town, I could feel it in my posting; I was posting like I would as scum, and literally nothing I could do could get me out of there because if it was that easy, then my scumposting wouldn't be my scumposting in the first place. In that game, I fully knew zMuffinman would read me as scum, because *I* was reading myself as being someone who by all rights should have been scum, thanks to being in my scumgame. He had every reason to think I was scum, and it was, therefore, not a misread on his part, but a weird misplay on my end. (Still don't know how it happened. I can occasionally channel the better elements of my scumgame when I'm town, and there are a lot of elements between the two which're so similar that to all but the most experienced they look identical, but me as town, actually playing a full game with the style I do when scum? It was, is, and continues to be, practically unheard of, with Nati's MtG game the sole exception to the trend.)

He has a perfect accuracy. As he clarified later during PMs, he was townreading me during Sabotage contrary to his words in-thread, as should have been obvious by the fact that he gifted me his powers during N1. He understands my scumgame, recognizes it, like almost no other. Only AP and pirate mollie have that kind of accuracy, though AP and I need to play more often so that we can reconnect as to allow us to better lock down on each other again. (Playing once together every half a year or so-->we begin to lose that honed ability.) zMuffinman doesn't have that penalty. Any amount of gap in the time we've played together makes no difference. He's still able to get inside my mind and know my alignment.

Yet here, hiding behind an alt, he was calling me scum.

[Wall of Fire]

So, mastin-town would have reasonable expectations of zelink town reading her, but this is not absolute.

Except it is. Consistently. I tell people to disregard Serums and Steel for zMuff, because it wasn't him misreading me. It was him having an accurate read on what I should have been given my playstyle that game. zMuffinman knows my scumgame when he sees it. And that game was my scumgame. I just so happened to have a town PM, and was just as mystified as zMuffinman as to why I, as town, was playing as scum, yet I couldn't break it. He didn't mislynch me that game; he correctly lynched what should have been a scum me, but for something on MY end made it wrong. I said it then. I've continued saying it since then. (Seriously, iso me sitewide and search for zMuf*. Every time the subject comes up, I will insist on it.)

And the whole time muffin was misreading mastin, mastin was agreeing that she looked off and acknowledging why muffin would misread her.

Sure!

Here, there's no such excuse, though. This is

not

my scumgame. He should

know

it's not my scumgame. It's admittedly not a very strong showing of my towngame, but it's very much. unmistakably. without any shadow of a doubt. my towngame. I could see him maybe being unsure of his read--he does take his time sometimes to get a read on me. I could see there being some uncertainty, because of how subdued it is, because of how little I've been in the game. I could see that, even though I don't particularly think it that likely, because it is plausible to see zMuff not being able to instantly judge off of the content.

Yet zMuff isn't saying I'm null. He's not even going weak scum. I'm there, as his number one scumread. That bit was unmistakable with a Zelink iso. And that's why he's scum: because if there's any strong way he should be reading me at all, it's as town. Not scum.

Or in short: me being null is possible, but not the most likely; I could see it. Me being strongly town is the read he should have if he has a strong read, because town or null should be the only two options. Instead, he has me as strong scum. And that's a misread that will NOT come from him.

She's not having the same sort of reaction I am, which is to wonder how much of zelink's are honestly scum reading or trolling or doing it for some other purpose,

I read Zelink's posting initially as trolling, sure. But as others have been apt to point out, there's legit content in the posting. Control-f his iso for Wall. (You'll get false positives, but do it anyway.) Then WoF. Then mastin. Then Ceph. Between those four key words, you'll get (almost) every mention of us in his iso, or get pretty close to where he talks about us. Then read what he says. It started initially as reading trolly enough that I just wrote him off and paid him no heed whatsoever. But when I looked at his whole iso yesterday, I realized that he wasn't joking. He wasn't even trolling. Of everyone in the game, his number one scumread was me.

[Wall of Fire]

I saw that more as a joke vote, though mastin being this underwhelming doesn't make me feel comfortable either

Fuck off, Wisdom.

I warned you of this all before the game even happened. I was predicting that with so many power-players, the game would quickly turn very, very badly. (I forget my exact wording, but go there to the signup thread; I marked my concern about the power-players+hydras combo.) And sure enough, spamspamspamspamspam. So much stuff happening that it went in one ear, out the other. I could throw down some gut feelings, but they'd be nothing but that, gut feels; frankly, I feel like lurking and letting Ceph do the heavy lifting because bluntly?

I don't care.

I just don't hold an investment in the game right now. There's just nothing there. So damn fucking straight I'm underwhelming. If anything, that should tell you EXACTLY WHY I AM TOWN. (Name once. ONCE. That I have ever. EVER. Been underwhelming as scum. Least of all, on day one! In a hydra, no less!)

[Wall of Fire]

Not especially. I don't think mastin has been overwhelmingly town this game.

Yes, not overwhelmingly, but clearly at least partially. There is zero. ZERO. chance of zMuffinman mistaking this for being my scumgame. Not being sure is something I'd see as unlikely but possible from him. Him actually not only scumreading me, but having me as his number one scumread?

Not a damn chance.

So yes. My vote was dead serious.

Zelink is scum.

[Wall of Fire]

Mastin can you explain why you voted me?

Just didn't really like your attitude, felt not Wisdomy enough.
/irony.

[Wall of Fire]

I don't want to vote Kuroko anymore. That reachout!

Luna, why did you unvote Muki? You asked me to help but I haven't had a chance to look yet. Here's a leap of faith.

VOTE: Muki

AJ! You're my hero. Can't stand the Mastin flow chart/trust people who "read" me well. Maybe I'm jealous? Naww, just seen a game blown on that premise.

Tammy, I didn't realize we had so much good history!

This is weirdly hyper positive.

Also, I see that muffin is addressing me, but I think I have already answered the questions he is asking. I'm kinda doing the skim for my name thing on the whole game right now though S:

[Wall of Fire]

I guess I haven't posted a complete read list

Town | Tammy OT PN Luna
Townish | Klingoncelt Ika AJ Kami
Ishish | Aneninen Lynxslot Idiocy Brantz Medea Fluff Wisdom Konowa
Scummish | Kuroko Zelink Muki Prohawk

[Wall of Fire]

I don't even sound like mastin how do people not get this

[Wall of Fire]

There are a lot of townreads on AJ.

Can someone explain them?

Personally, I'm down for lynching Brantz or muki. AJ is a pocket scumread, which is looks like zmuff shares.

FG has a much larger list and is largely indifferent on who among them we lynch.

I think I just liked the aggressive defense, even if I can see how it could be seen as strange.

Why Brantz? Isn't he just as lurky as every other lurkaderp?

[Wall of Fire]

can't we lynch muffin

i wanna lynch muffin

[Wall of Fire]

pls soft less

[Wall of Fire]

For the record, Penguin is scumreading Pieguyn hydra; and I've got a pocket scumread on Hawkie.

I approve, so now convince me you're town!

[Wall of Fire]

does it

[Wall of Fire]

I'm glad someone has figured out that we're town, but I have no idea how you possibly figured it out.

[Wall of Fire]

good times.

[Wall of Fire]

I don't really care about the info, but I have liked their play.

[Wall of Fire]

It could be, even though I'm at work and pretty busy!

I like Bert a lot this game. He's exactly the right amount of silly, and then I really liked a seemingly small point that Nacho made about him a while ago.

[Wall of Fire]

oh yeah Tammy what did you think of Bert's posts around the time of our argument? It seemed to me a really town Bert thing to do to ramble on about his paranoia of me while we were fighting, has good progression because he asked you about your read on me earlier I think. I especially liked the part where he accused me of placating and reassuring him when he got defensive.

This one.

[Wall of Fire]

...Well of course I'm at work because I barely post from home anymore, but busy, yes.

[Wall of Fire]

Okay and now for the super sekrit one

Because I actually don't give a rat's arse about notsci but bins worries me.

I've basically not been reading Fluff's posts. I think I liked the Bins altslippy bit. Because those posts actually stood out to me, possibly.

...Well of course I'm at work because I barely post from home anymore, but busy, yes.

I'm at work too but don't let pesky things like that keep you from your dreams of hanging out with me.

Which actually you've yet to expand on a read of me so I have no idea if you reciprocate my feelings or not.

Thankfully however if you don't I know the general area in which you live to team up with syryana to nuke from orbit.

I don't have a read on you right now really, but this page has been making me happy so far.

[Wall of Fire]

[Wall of Fire]

Hi. I wasn't looking to be townread when I reached out to you; I was looking for you to actually read my posts and start interacting with me.

What's there to interact with?

Literally nothing you've said has been worth responding to, else I would have already done so.

When I said I was not fucking invested in the game.

I meant I wasn't fucking invested in the game. In one ear, out the other. That's your content this game to me.

I'm not sure this response is a great one; do you remember when Muffin pretended you were his top scumspect for the entirety of Xeno...saga?

I have absolutely no memory of this.

[Wall of Fire]

He has a perfect accuracy. As he clarified later during PMs, he was townreading me during Sabotage contrary to his words in-thread, as should have been obvious by the fact that he gifted me his powers during N1. He understands my scumgame, recognizes it, like almost no other. Only AP and pirate mollie have that kind of accuracy, though AP and I need to play more often so that we can reconnect as to allow us to better lock down on each other again. (Playing once together every half a year or so-->we begin to lose that honed ability.) zMuffinman doesn't have that penalty. Any amount of gap in the time we've played together makes no difference. He's still able to get inside my mind and know my alignment.

Sorry, Sabotage.

You mean the game where, after it was over, zMuffinman

sent me a PM and clarified his scumread on me was faked

? As should be evident by the fact that

he fucking gave me his powers N1

? Which I ALREADY WAS EXPLICIT ABOUT?

That game?

Did you even READ my post? Because I said this already. I'll dig out the fucking PM to prove it if needed.

[Wall of Fire]

The long logical walls simply don't exist thus far,

The last time I was a long wallposter was back in...well, I want to say 2009, but that'd be a lie; 2011 is a better end-date for them, because everything I did after 2011 is short relative to 2011 walls. Which, for the most part, were longer as scum, I'll admit.

The logic only comes in my scumgame, and even then, only when I'm efforting my scumgame. Generally as scum, because as town I don't give much reasoning, I can get away with not giving much reasoning. (You'd think this would be a flaw in my towngame, but no. Me giving logic actually

decreases

my odds of being followed, except when I'm scum, so I tend to give minimalistic reasoning rather than solid logic.)

If this is an off game (which I think the WoF hydra has admitted), then I could easily understand Muffin not having a good read on Mastin.

The thing is, though, it's

not

an "off" game. Serums and Steel?

That

was an off-game. I was off-model, and zMuff knew I was, and in spite of me knowing I was I could do nothing to get back on-model. It's a game where my contributions have been small, yes. It's a game where I haven't given much, sure. But what little I have given? Has been

pretty fucking town

, and while I can understand someone like you who doesn't have experience with me not seeing and understanding it. While I can even understand someone who's familiar with my gameplay thinking it's too early to make a solid judgment. (Including zMuffinman, albeit unlikely.)

That zMuffinman would have a

rats-ass backwards

read I can absolutely not. NOT. accept.

This is ESPECIALLY evident given past games. In games where I've given

less content than what I've given this game

. (Which is impressive!) Dead serious, in games where I have given less content than my content in this game.

zMuffinman was able to correctly read me, usually as town, sometimes as scum, depending on my alignment.
(Which is why I said that I find it unlikely that he'd have a null read on me, but not impossible--sometimes, he does need that extra, even though most of the time, he knows from as little as one or two posts.)

So no way.
Does he, as an ALT, have a wrong read on me like that.
That bit of being an alt is important. If zMuffinman were on his main, then maybe. Maybe.

Maybe

. I could buy a reaction-test. MAYBE. (Depending on his way of handling it.) Yet zMuffinman isn't on his main. He's playing as an alt, that he presumably never intended to altslip on. Therefore, there cannot be any reaction test involved. I don't care about a random scummer named Zelink scumreading me, so I'd pay it no greater heed than any other player scumreading me.

Yet he has me as a serious suspicion anyway. Meaning that he was never intending me to know he was zMuffinman, scumreading me.
That can only.
ONLY.
Come from him as scum.

Period.

[Wall of Fire]

A good number of this playerlist knows that muffin has a really good ability at reading mastin and would listen to him on that read. Sure, as zelink he has minimal impact with that play style he was affecting, but the moment he alt slipped his accuracy on reading mastin came into play.

My point exactly.

zMuffinman never intended to alt-slip, yet did intend for there to be a rather blatantly obvious scumread on me.
That meant he was hiding behind an alt, to do something that he never could have gotten away with on his main.

[Wall of Fire]

If I were in Mastin's shoes, my response would probably be pressing for a reason.

First rule of mastina, never assume you can think like mastina.

I long-ago stopped asking for reasoning. I'll often point out a lack of reasoning when it exists, but I'm not going to ask people for reasoning.

Mastin's already discounting the chance that she could ever adapt her style in such a way that muffin wouldn't be sure about his read.

Explicitly so, yes. My style has changed such that I know that some players can't get a perfect read on me. For instance, I DID fool Nacho in Inorganic Chemistry, and he has a fairly high accuracy in reading me. (I also fooled LC, who held that same accuracy.) AP and I have drifted such that it'll require more games together for us to rekindle that accuracy we held on one another, because right now, AP's current play is not recognizable to me and vice-versa is to some extent also true. But zMuffinman is above that. The way that AP and I held perfect accuracy on one another was always different from the way that zMuffinman and I held perfect accuracy on one another. This is something that's hard to explain, but...

...To put it bluntly, not all 100% accuracy reads are the same. zMuffinman holds an innate understanding of my game that locks onto a fundamental aspect of my play that he recognizes every single time, no matter the gap in our play. (Heck, he was even able to figure out one of my alts purely because said alt was displaying a fundamental aspect of my play that he recognized!) It is something that always is there, no matter how much I as scum try to subvert and evolve my play, and no matter how much my play as town drifts and changes from what it was. That fundamental, deep-slated force, is something that he, and he alone, can see. I've tried countless times to fool him, but countless times I was unable to change it. I've had countless times where I was town and he knew it, in spite of me being flabbergasted at the difference in my play.

He has always. Always. ALWAYS. Been able to adapt to the changes to my play, because he holds that innate understanding, that I

refuse

to believe just simply vanished, when I was showing very,

very

strong signs of my townplay in what I have posted. It might not have been MUCH that I posted, but it was ENOUGH. Enough that there's no way he makes that type of horrible misread.

mollie gets paranoid about me, but can read me off of some wavelength I haven't been able to fully explore yet. AP could read me off of essentially a mental battle where we were able to identify each other's marking points, and said points were extremely difficult for us to mask. (This is why we need to play together more often, because said marking points DO change with time.) But the zMuffinman mechanic is a fundamental driving force. He can't read the "how" of my posts, he can't read the "why" of my posts, but he can recognize the result.

Which is why he, hiding behind an alt, scumreading me, makes him scum.

[Wall of Fire]

Here is Mastin's flow chart for how to read her.

Btw, that's an old copy of the flowchart. (The original draft.) There's a more recent one in MD, and I believe the most recent copy is somewhere in Inorganic Chemistry.

AJ! You're my hero. Can't stand the Mastin flow chart/trust people who "read" me well. Maybe I'm jealous? Naww, just seen a game blown on that premise.

Fuck off, ProHawk. I have a TON more to say about this but for the time being just know that Monday was a

very

bad day for me, I'm still extremely full of ire right now, and you do NOT want to mess with me right now.

[Wall of Fire]

I don't even sound like mastin how do people not get this

Beats me!

Maybe I have a monopoly on the word "readslist"?
Or maybe it's "Townish/Scummish"?

I guess Mastin's more important than you, Pumbaa.

I find it ironic that ProHawk who complains about me being so much a focus of people's attentions ("cult of mastina")...ends up focusing on my half of the hydra so much he writes off a Ceph post as being me.

[Wall of Fire]

can't we lynch muffin
i wanna lynch muffin

Okay,

that

one I can maybe see people attributing to me, because if not for the lack of caps I actually could make that post. (I always speak with proper capitalization* and grammar and whatnot. Except when I don't. But that's usually for emphasis, and is usually still within the acceptable rules, just bent to my benefit.)

*Though if anything, I overcapitalize, thanks to me being fond of Camel Casing.
/Trope Addict.

It had 0% to do with you and 0% to do with me. It's P_A's patented "mastin reading mojo jojo"
Which to be fair is currently at 100%; including pre-replacement of a certain PTSD-inducing game mastin would rather forget.

Still insist that's bullshit, btw. The read happens to be right, but I do not respect PA in the same manner I do pirate mollie, AP, and zMuf.

Also, Tales is not a game I want to forget. Rather the opposite.

[Wall of Fire]

Hi Mastin! I will be over here being smug that unlike nacho ~WE~ can read you correctly AND agree that muffin's stances on you suck monkey balls.

Well Nacho has a townread on me, he's just not doing much with it because I haven't let him.

But meh. I'm leaving you to Ceph. Frankly I really don't care to sort either of your heads one way or the other. If he ends up trusting you, I'll put my trust in you as well, but until then, expect me to react fairly neutrally to you.

[Wall of Fire]

Can I just point out that we're assuming muffin's completely read up and not on page 30 reading mastin off basically her RVS?

My RVS posting is my most-important posting, dead serious. He should be able to tell from just that...

...But even if he couldn't!

I've had posting outside the RVS that he's quoted and responded to, neutrally-at-BEST, mostly though with a clear scumread intent.

[Wall of Fire]

mastin, where are you getting that zelink is scumreading you?

I understand hesitance to read Zelink's posts.

So iso him, and use control-F.

First, search for "Wall". (You'll get false positives, and some repeats thanks to him quoting himself, but most are relevant.)
Then, "WoF".
Then, "mastin".
Then, "Ceph". (For all four, again, some repeats, but most relevant.)

Look slightly up and down from each result to see the text outside the quotes, and it quickly becomes obvious that he has me as basically his number one scumread. You can figure that out by skimming his iso and looking at other players in comparison to me, with things such as, "Oh, yeah, that's scummy, but I'm not going to follow it because Wall of Fire is pushing it", and "That's a good point, which you're not allowed to make because you're likely scum and I'm not supposed to agree with you", and similar things he's said. There's no way you can interpret that as anything other than a scumread, and it is beyond the point where it would be trolling; it's his content among the trolling, one of the few serious things in his posting.

[Wall of Fire]

How is his push here different from his push there?

BECAUSE HE'S USING A FUCKING ALT WHICH I DIDN'T KNOW WAS HIS ALT UNTIL HE ALT-SLIPPED.

[Wall of Fire]

The alt arguments also sort of fall flat; people knew who he was before he slipped and people still expected the same accuracy out of him that they did from MuffinMan.

It certainly got our slot on his case, though.

[Wall of Fire]

no, i have actually read all of his posts, and i get that he expressed dislike towards some of your posts, but I don't exactly get the feeling he wants your head. He even asked Ceph "when are you going to start being town" at some point, which doesn't look like he believes you are scum.

I also had the impression we were his #1 scumread

[Wall of Fire]

The read happens to be right, but I do not respect PA in the same manner I do pirate mollie, AP, and zMuf.

Why the hell are you responding to a reach out with such rude arrogance?

We've certainly done nothing of the kind to you.

We've gone out of our way to defend you; and this is your response?

I suspect that "respect" was poor wording.

[Wall of Fire]

Kinda sad you've moved away from your walls to be honest.

I've always hated the walls, even in 2011 I hated them but was resigned to them, and since then have despised them. I've learned to accept them in good humor (see also: things like the name of our hydra being

Wall

of Fire), but I still hate them.

I very much am not happy about how wordy I get, nor am I happy when I go too far the other direction and spam. It's just an unpleasant mess. (It's one of the main reasons I use alts, in fact: so that I can hone in and refine my style to be more minimalistic.)

Prior to knowing him, you were moderately annoyed that he was parodying you. Did you have a read on him then?

Ask Ceph. I didn't, because again, frankly, I wasn't reading his posts at all. I only started to skim/read them on a whim. Prior to that, I was just glossing over them, since I figured he'd be sorted some later time.

The read happens to be right, but I do not respect PA in the same manner I do pirate mollie, AP, and zMuf.

Why the hell are you responding to a reach out with such rude arrogance? We've certainly done nothing of the kind to you. We've gone out of our way to defend you; and this is your response?

I suspect that "respect" was poor wording.

Maybe so, but I stand by my statement. I hold no disrespect for PA. I respect her as I do any other player. As I would players like Bert, Syryana, Cabd, farside, ika, and similar. If we played together more often, I'd respect her on the level of Nacho, Ceph, pie, notty, and Mala. (There's tiers to respect. The respect every player deserves, the respect I give to those who I play with often, loosely speaking "friends", and then there's the third tier.) But I don't respect her on the level that I hold pirate mollie, AP, and zMuffinman. They hold a tier of respect unequaled by any others.

And it's more like...when Medea posted, they gave a rather strong defense of me...one which I very much did not ask for. So the very thing they're asking about (them going out of their way to defend me) is the very thing I take issue with. I do not require white knights. Ever.

Still insist that's bullshit, btw. The read happens to be right, but I do not respect PA in the same manner I do pirate mollie, AP, and zMuf.

Frankly I really don't care to sort either of your heads one way or the other.

...so yeah, you can be town, but I have zero interest in working with you here after this.

Never asked you to. That's the issue. Were I to try and figure out your alignment, I'd be basing it mainly off of whether I'd think you were white knighting town when scum, or just acting like an overprotective parent as town reading me as town and coming to my defense when I asked for no such thing. And while I suppose I could bother to do so, I just very much would prefer not to deal with it right now. If Ceph doesn't get a read on you eventually, then I suppose I could put effort into figuring it out, but otherwise, you're one of the reads that I'd just rather leave to him to sort.

Because, bluntly, I don't know Cabd and I don't know you. Ceph I believe holds greater familiarity with both. (Even if it's not much.)

[Wall of Fire]

VOTE: ProHawk

[Wall of Fire]

to be fair, prohawk's vote was great, i just don't like anything else he's done

[Wall of Fire]

Right now I'm wondering, why AREN'T we lynching this guy????

That's why I want to know how he's responding to current things

probably because of lolstarpower or something

you wanna lynch him you've got my vote

[Wall of Fire]

oh come now hawkie, it's not a race to see who can look scummier

[Wall of Fire]

Hai, Pisskop! Hai, Vedith!

If someone doesn't sheep Ika I think his head will explode. Damn, he be ragin'.

VOTE: Brantz

S:

[Wall of Fire]

This whole game has felt like a circle.

[Wall of Fire]

Maybe I just want someone to be scummy but the above post didn't work for me

[Wall of Fire]

Maybe I just want someone to be scummy but the above post didn't work for me

Does this make both of us insane if I agree?

Great minds apparently converge without being able to explain themselves??

[Wall of Fire]

*clears throat*

*bumbles around a bit with eyes half closed*

*waves at cabd*

*returns to slumber*

[Wall of Fire]

I took your "vedith has hardly done anything" as a refusal to my "vote vedith already". Was it not so?

Correct. However, it's not a permanent refusal. I'd like to see more content from him before jumping on that wagon.

zzzz

[Wall of Fire]

Did you post those votes or was it Bins?

pointless questions exhibit A, watch carefully and learn vedith

I don't think scum-muffin comes into the game thinking "I am going to quote every single post in the game." and I think that is so drastically opposite from his analytical scumgame where he methodically will go over his posts to make sure they sound okay, I don't think that what he's doing here lends itself to that.

i think you're nuts

[Wall of Fire]

I also acknowledge that I rarely have a good grasp of the game early on, so I'm perfectly fine with being ignored. It means that if I'm wrong about BRantz then I get to look back at it and say, "yeah, that sounds about right given my usual track record early game" and if I'm right I get to go "HAHA, TOLD YOU GUYS I WAS RIGHT. WHY DIDN'T YOU LISTEN TO ME? MY READS ARE AMAZING, YOU'RE ALL AWFUL AT THE GAME!"

I am also fully aware that I just used a line like this as a bad guy in an attempt to draw town reads - I am obviously doing it again to psyche everyone out. Hopefully it's working.

humility from zmuffin? definitely scum

[Wall of Fire]

Idiocy's initial approach to us was to call us scum because we said we were going to post a lot and I said in a scumgame once that I thought posting a lot was harmful. I still don't understand the point to this push and I still don't like it. The rest of the ISO is a void for me; I find farside usually has pretty well-defined pushes on people and is more proactive in pushing shit out as town where here it doesn't really feel like she's doing anything. I was OK with the Brantz push but I haven't really been satisfied with the other posts made.

fair

I'd lynch Ika Zaru for lurking. I don't know why people have a townread on the slot at all. Fluff I think is town.
Talked about Medea and Tammy already.

i'm not sure why i was townreading them either and could lynch them tbh

i am so disengaged from this game :/

[Wall of Fire]

my lynch list basically consists entirely of low charisma players (+ maybe pie) and that's not great

[Wall of Fire]

and there are possibly zero low charisma players who i don't want to lynch unless you count pn which i do not, and that is also bad

[Wall of Fire]

those wagons are both really uninspiring

also, i forgot that muffin is a high charisma player i want to lynch, but i might just always want to lynch him, i dunno

[Wall of Fire]

VOTE: vedith for marginally better wagon composition

[Wall of Fire]

^ (yet)

[Wall of Fire]

I was thinking about voting wisdom as soon as it became clear what you are saying

it's still not clear

[Wall of Fire]

Yeah you can test it, vote me up, but then I'm just going to see how easily scum lead this game.

that wouldn't be scum driving anything, that would be you being stubborn for no reason and wasting the town's time

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the kind who can only overturn to no lynch? S:

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are you x-shot?

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are you x-shot?

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I'm very tempted to request a vig on this

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I'm very tempted to request a vig on this

How townie of you.

how sassy of you

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i'm kinda realizing i barely see the point of town governors

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VOTE: Wisdom

pedit: I'm not doing this because you told me to

[Wall of Fire]

(I have found the shift towards aggression jarring)

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Scum governor, however, is a surprise-lylo role that has significant utility. I think it's much less likely that ferry made the decision to align a governor as scum rather than town.

this seems no more likely to be true than false

[Wall of Fire]

Scum governor, however, is a surprise-lylo role that has significant utility. I think it's much less likely that ferry made the decision to align a governor as scum rather than town.

this seems no more likely to be true than false

Why do you think governor is null?

Your whole line of logic just didn't seem to be based on anything

[Wall of Fire]

Some of those roles only make sense to give to certain alignments, like cop, ninja, doctor, strongman, etc. So you give those to the appropriate alignments, and then you're left with a ton of townies who need roles and a couple scum who need them. You can't give the town all powerful roles, so you mostly want to give them low-utility (from an EV perspective) things like extra votes, neighborhoods, mailman, etc. Governor fits that for town, so it's very attractive to give town a governor. After all, you have a lot of town role slots to fill.

You could give scum a governor, sure. But you probably have only 5 scum, and they already have things like Ninja, Strongman, Godfather, probably a roleblocker, and probably some kind of investigative (rolecop, tracker, watcher). You might choose to fit the governor in there, but why would you do that when it's so attractive to give it to town? There are plenty of other quirky things to give scum that don't make the town feel cheated when they auto-lose a day earlier than they expected.

So you're kind of presupposing how the game is designed. Who's to say that she gave the scum a godfather/ninja/strongman at all? Maybe she did roles separate from alignments, or maybe she wanted to be less predictable. like I understand what you're saying I just don't agree with it

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Wall, are you still trying to push a lynch on me here or can we be productive and lynch scum (Wisdom)?

i am voting for wisdom, pay attention

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i can't tell if vedith's attitude is scummy or just grating but it's not relevant really

pedit: yes

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Because we swapped shoes...
Plus the fact that he has been pushing so hard, trying to find loop holes out of it and it was obvious that I was a Gov with my posts to him earlier.
When he didn't respond to my posts of us swapping shoes I saw that as intentionally ignoring it.

-________________________________________________________________-

[Wall of Fire]

ceph you can do better than that

can i? last time you were town you insisted i was a moron

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My attitude is always scummy Wall. I like to keep people on their toes.

asdfghjkl;

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i could lynch most of those players

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Ika Zaru, Idiocy, Kuroko Network, Klingoncelt, ZeL1nK2

i want no part of this

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i kinda want that to live and my only reason is that it sounds cool

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Here isn't one

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VOTE: ProHawk

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that is what bert looks like

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And Ceph has done basically no scum hunting this game. In general, most of his stances feel like they're being done out of convenience and just going with the flow of the game; he writes a bunch of words, but none of his pushes have been particularly good, compelling, or showing any kind of original thought.

I write a bunch of words? I can't remember doing that. I've been active lurking all game, but I don't see any connection between that and me being scum. And you say all this like it isn't something I'd readily admit to. But I thought you'd have played with me enough times to realize that apathy is, at worst, not a scumtell for me. This just makes me want to vote you more.

[Wall of Fire]

so domeone have a real case on me outside of the fact im not doign shit?

can you honestly say that is not a perfectly good case on you

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i also am gonna ask mala if she can catch up or if i need to take over and do shit cus im alreay tired and irritated that we cant lynch fucking brats and that nobody has given a real town case for it outside of people voting it

>this is the leading wagon

...

[Wall of Fire]

I am the Tower Reversed, Town JoaT. I have 4 1-shot abilities: Roleblock, Doctor, Tracker, Jailkeeper. My role also says that other players abilities may change what I do during the game.

in before someone can unreverse you and break everything.

Also, I have a brand new suspect! :0

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- He is a bad guy who DID tell his team about his role BUT nobody on his team ever thought to check whether he could use it on himself.

I don't see anything unreasonable about this.

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VOTE: Aneninen

Because I've just realized that he's scum.

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You should all help me flashwagon this.

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He's done nothing but ask pointless questions and he lacks Aneninen-ness.

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Especially considering the claim makes zero sense flavorwise.

Fair.

Is there any reason I feel like all your posts for the last 20 pages have existed solely to shame people for doing anything other than voting BRantz?

[Wall of Fire]

VOTE: BRantz

[Wall of Fire]

Ya'll are such killjoys.

Fine.

If oil promises that we powerlynch aneneneneineineeneineienienienienieneenn tomorrow i'll hammer.

Killjoy? I'm just trying to understand why you want anen dead over brantz.

I feel like anenenenenennenenenenennenenenenebannananninenenenenen lacks the whimsy that I associate with town ananananananananananananeneneienieneineineienienieneineineienienen. Brantz feels slightly like misguided lost and behind town and my gut says that eneneneneineineienienienienianainainainaianianianianianianainainapidegeonbananaaneneneienieneinein must die

i already said that gawdddddd

now i moved so im not even gonna get credit for my own at-least-vaguely-causal-relationship-with-wagon.

[Wall of Fire]

VOTE: aneinineneineineineininienineineineineinienenenenenneneneiinininininienneiineineneneninenienienienienienienneineiieniennneneinieneinienienienienei

[Wall of Fire]

string votee = "an";

for (int n = 0; n < 100; n++) {

if (n % 2 = 1) {
votee = votee + "en"
}

else {
votee = votee + "in"
}

}

cephrir.vote(votee);

[Wall of Fire]

Ceph, which posts were you referring to in 1285?

Probably some combination of 771, 804 and 811.

[Wall of Fire]

Of note, anenenenenenennenenenenenneienieneineineineineienienienienienieneineineienienieneineineineieneienieneineineineienienienieneineineienieneineienienieneinhnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn has yet to post a single good pidgeon picture.

I honestly feel this is relevant to his alignment

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brantz is a good guy man. let's vote vedith

Why is brantz scum?

I don't really wanna vote BRantz. Do we have time for anything else?

The difference is that Brantz is scum, and Anen is the scum generated counterwagon to it.

Nope, he's still town

You literally never mentioned the wagon except in:

BRantz (7): Ika Zaru, Kuroko Network, Klingoncelt,

nacho how can you be okay with such a shit wagon?

You read Brantz as town and now you're trying to use wagon composition to justify yourself not lynching him.
VOTE: Wisdom

Well that's flimsy.

[Wall of Fire]

how would it affect me? Even if I was scum I wouldn't know Brantz is scum, so why would I need to justify myself?

Because of self-awareness, like you're immediately jumping to "Oh he was a traitor, so i wont look bad for being on the counterwagon and defending him" your first instinct is that scum was "mislynching" him, not you being wrong about your read, as i quoted previously, all your comments on Brantz relate to you saying he's town, not that "I dislike the wagon composition" except in a single reply to OT.

Wisdom's first reaction to anything will always be how he was actually right about it!

[Wall of Fire]

get scum lynched and i'll think about it

OK.

Vote: Idiocy

We investigated Idiocy last night. Idiocy is scum.

Oh, neat. Not shocking!

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ok cool i was just kidding just wanted to make wisdom sheep me for a second

Oh, okay.

[Wall of Fire]

Luna, are you claiming cop?

2-shot cop of uncertain sanity that is

y u do dis

[Wall of Fire]

If it was an explicit mention in her role PM, she just outed herself for no reason.

Oh wait, because Oil Tycoons baited her.

Does anyone else wonder why Zelink was killed over them or Tammy or anyone else who wasn't a troll?

Yes, that was clearly intentional and not at all the opposite of that and it's totally their fault Luna doesn't read preview posts.

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Are we all just going to ignore cabd speccing what I already commented on with regards to the hood in my first post about it?

yep!

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Also, I'm a bit concerned about wall of fire with that kill. Mastin would kill zelink early and since she was convinced that he was scum reading her and had her as his strongest scum read, when he didn't, it has me concerned, but I need to mull that one over.

I would kill him too. My only counterpoint would be his clear disinterest in the game (and seeming to let up his scumread on us).

[Wall of Fire]

For those asking, since my role says that the uncertainty may go away with experience i didnt take an action last night since it's limited ammount of uses, i rather wait until said uncertainty goes away, i was kinda impulsive on CCing i guess, when he first claimed his result i thought it was some sort of tracker guilty since my role was a cop and i had a townread there, when i read it again i realized it was a cop guilty so I CC'd, unfortunately it is true that they retracted it at the same time i CC'd so it's obvious it wasn't a bait.

VOTE: Wisdom

Back here.

I think you are handling you role incorrectly!

[Wall of Fire]

i'll tell you. she posted that we should lynch brantz because tower is the worst tarot card. And when she was told that flavor is not alignment indicative as confirmed by the mod, she just shrugged it off.

I hated that also!

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VOTE: ProHawk?

[Wall of Fire]

But why would i get a result i know i can't trust, instead of just waiting until i can get results that i can trust?

I feel like experience might mean using one of your shots, or you might learns your sanity on day X regardless of whether your shots have been used

[Wall of Fire]

VOTE: ProHawk?

This is not very convincing! That question mark is ugly!!!
This does not feel like working together for a special cause! I would like an awakening!

I don't know!

[Wall of Fire]

It could mean anything if it gets late then yeah i might use a shot as a test to see my sanity, but i dont want to try that yet if maybe it's possible my sanity becomes clear afterwards, ftr, im hoping my sanity is either Sane or Insane, not Naive, Paranoid or Random, i'd feel that'd be pretty Bastard.

you're probably sane or insane

[Wall of Fire]

i cant read ceph for shit as has been proven

[Wall of Fire]

Finally
Some life in ceph
This is what we've been waiting for

I feel like a dead fish this game, but I don't know if not being fun is alignment indicative for me or not.

[Wall of Fire]

VOTE: AJ

I'm just here to naked vote every way the wind blows.

[Wall of Fire]

*passes through holding a blank picket sign*

[Wall of Fire]

VOTE: ProHawk?

Btw, just in case this is still up:
UNVOTE: ProHawk.
Ceph, check the PT.

If Ceph changed the vote from ProHawk, well, I'll revote whoever he voted assuming no similar problem.

(If you're wondering how much I've read: basically nil. Just started from daystart.)

[Wall of Fire]

Fire guy. We can't be friends.

We can, though. Takes just the slightest bit of trust in us to be town (we are), and for me to talk sense into Ceph (I can), and then bam! Townbloc.

VOTE: AJ
I'm just here to naked vote every way the wind blows.

I might put this back up if it stands since while I'm not passionate about it, I don't disagree with it and see the logic behind it soyeah.

If not AJ, then Idiocy.

Nacho, why are Wisdom and WOF town?

Well because while I'm not here often, when I am, I'm obvtown.

Also, yeah. As scum, less inclined to fall this behind.

[Wall of Fire]

You've got to love the desynchronicity that is the wall not walling and the fire not being firey.

[Wall of Fire]

Anyway, caught back up.

VOTE: AJ the Epic.
Again, easily could switch to Idiocy, and has Ceph's approval there, too, but I figure it'd be nice to support ProHawk. (Nacho knows he has my support in spirit! Or, well, will.)

[Wall of Fire]

hyperbolic confidence makes me want to kneejerk lynch you

[Wall of Fire]

hyperbolic confidence makes me want to kneejerk lynch you

Find anything convincingly Towny about the 3 of them, mainly Wisdom and Idiocy. Look at Wisdom and Idiocy's interactions.

They might as well be running through the thread waving giant flags.

so you're just going all in on that angle then huh.

[Wall of Fire]

You're really going to throw hydra diss at me as a way to deny this scum read. You're a collective person sharing a PT, surely you can do better.

I am already voting for this!

[Wall of Fire]

hyperbolic confidence makes me want to kneejerk lynch you

Find anything convincingly Towny about the 3 of them, mainly Wisdom and Idiocy. Look at Wisdom and Idiocy's interactions.

They might as well be running through the thread waving giant flags.

so you're just going all in on that angle then huh.

Okay... I'm all ears. Why do you think they're Town?

I didn't say that I do. I just found your tone disconcerting.

[Wall of Fire]

Check the lynch against the flip, it's 6 hours

[Wall of Fire]

there is literally nothing opportunistic about that vote

Pickup

[Wall of Fire]

I have difficulty believing that you honestly think that

A.) Luna is scum
and
B.) She is actually trying to lie about what happened in order to get you lynched hoping no one will ever notice rather than the much simpler and literally guaranteed to be true scenario where she was confused.