BLOODBORNE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Shadow_step]

Had to read 7 pages in one go.

Super saturated.

VOTE: Xkfyu

[Shadow_step]

I don't like this entrance at all. It doesn't add anything and has a vote on someone who hasn't been scummy at all.

Want to hear more from this slot.

Sure.

It's not a serious vote.

As to why I voted him, it's because we know each other from another gaming site.

[Shadow_step]

Question to anyone who has played with Zulfy before.

Does he tend to self vote a lot ?

[Shadow_step]

Wgeurts: I'm always this engaged...but it's rare that my engagement is as purposeful as it's been in this game, yes.

Shadow_step: Zulfy is the trolliest of trolls imo. I've never seen him self vote, but I've seen him do things which display a degree of incompetence such that I wouldn't put anything past him. A singular self vote, though, isn't a big deal. So, do you have any meaningful contributions to make? Your ISO is exactly as useless and empty as Zulfy's.

ABR: Stop it. Your other head is being reasonable, but you're ruining all of that and making me wish you'd just let them play without you.

-Cerb

pedit: Yay, a truce or something.

Since I'm not 100% on top of all game mechanics I will skip the "random" part (just in case someone can empower my vote to some degree or someone can lower the lynch threshold ridiculously).

I'm not really seeing this ^ as scummy as some others are.
There isn't much scum benefit in posting something like this.
Whatever little is there doesn't outweigh the risk. (IMO)

[Shadow_step]

@ Xkfyu any town/scum reads so far ?

[Shadow_step]

@Shinobi, there are no threats there, I'm just letting you know what the situation is. You're acting scummy right now. I'm not being nice about it. You seem to be implying you've got more than just reads, though. Unless you think we're idiots we can probably handle leads. If you're not just blowing smoke and you want to help town here you should pick up your game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

No, I'm implying that I'm hard to read. Try asking your other head about it some time.
I'm not really trying to come off condescending or anything about it either - I've played this game for a long time and I'm so confusing that a surprisingly large number of players outright give up trying to read me after a few games.

I don't think that your case is that strong considering most of the people posting (aside from me apparently) look okay and there's very little separating the slew of current inactives warranting voting any of them over any others, which puts me in a weird spot considering

I don't really care who we lynch among them since, you know, they're not doing anything and they're not trying to move the game in any significant direction.

Lot of scum benefit than town, in getting players with lower activity lynched. As it generally means that town won't learn much.

[Shadow_step]

I think that we've got my top scum pick as of now. Congratulations! That takes some work. It's a lurker saying that going after lurkers is anti-town unless I'm not seeing what they're saying. Care to help me out?

What is this, RL day 3 of Day 1, neh?
The time during which the thread is mostly active also happens to be the time when I'm asleep.
I don't intend to clog the thread with stuff that's already been said and parrot people.

[Shadow_step]

Just tell me what your reads are.

I'm reading Almost 50 as town(slightly) because of the reasons stated in #221.
It's relatively easy to jump on his wagon right now, I think there is at least one scum on his wagon.
Sensei most probably, never explained his vote on A50.

Nahdia seems to be getting a free ride so far for her weird posting style, which apparently she does a lot as town, which she can easily duplicate as scum too. Weak vote on A50 before, now she's voting RI for meta reasons.

i HATE META.

So what the fuck is going on?

[Shadow_step]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sensei

[Shadow_step]

instead of assuming I'm some drooling idiot who couldn't bullshit up something about him looking like a glob of fake or whatever if I were scum.

Why can't I make that assumption?

[Shadow_step]

A better question is - why would you?

You don't want to assume, you want to understand my motivation for doing things.

Or do you?

You expect me to assume that you have a legit reason to vote A50, but I cannot make this assumption?

It's your job to explain why you are voting someone, neh?

[Shadow_step]

You voted RI for some crappy "this entrance is too safe" reasons, and then backed off when you realised the wagon wasn't going anywhere, saying "meh".
You're vote on A50 seems completely opportunistic.

[Shadow_step]

Now you're OMGUS voting me ofc.

[Shadow_step]

Good, only quote the bits you can answer.

*slow claps*

[Shadow_step]

You expect me to assume that you have a legit reason to vote A50, but I cannot make this assumption?

No, I just said. I don't think that you should assume anything and asked me for my reason first.

Feel like we're talking past each other a bit.

Are you thinking anyone besides me is scum?

okay, first things first then.

What was your reason to vote him?

Leaning scum on Nahdia, mixed6 and Shinobi.

The whole conversation Nahdia and Mixed6 had from 14-16 looks staged to me.

for instance, this is how she reacted when asked something by Shinobi

It was a bad post.

I'm going to need a little more than that, you know.

UUUUUUUHHHHHGGGG FINE.

It seemed overly paranoid and disingenuous.

This is how she reacted when mixed6 attacked her

Forgot how overwhelmed I feel on Day 1 of large games :\

Scumvibes from Mixed6.

This is bullshit and I'm going to call you out on it right away.

Why are you voting with us from randomidget to almost50?

Wtf is scum vibes, it sounds like you made that shit up for the sake of attacking anyone. We are two active heads and you can't be more specific? And you keep voting with is?

Stand the fuck down and recant immediately.

Rampage

I read the thread. Something about you pinged me. That's scumvibes. It's a gut feeling. I don't really feel like picking apart your posts because stuff this early is bullshit and I fucking suck at scumhunting anyway so it's just what I think and I'm so freaking sorry for outting my single freaking thought on the game state. Let me just step off and start making purely mechanical posts, would that please you?

Seems to have more patience when talking to mixed6 than with anyone else.

[Shadow_step]

Shadow why are you only bringing up this "opportunistic vote" over 10 pages after it was made?

-Dragons

I hadn't read his ISO before today, didn't have much time to post properly earlier.

[Shadow_step]

What was your reason to vote him?

Well if you were paying attention you'd have noticed I already answered this.

His readwall back on whatever page it was where he threw out like 10 townreads based on nothing and didn't call anyone scum looked like trying to make friends a bit. Or rather not someone really looking for scum.

But I don't know though, the fake dayvig on nahdia and then him sorta dissecting his own wagon sorta looked town later on so meh.

Decided to move on to different things.

Yeah, I was typing #446 when you replied.

[Shadow_step]

the fake dayvig on nahdia

I think you're talking about A50 here?

[Shadow_step]

You were typing 446 when I answered wgeurts on pg 17?

I was referring to this

We'll have to just agree to disagree about my original reasons for voting RI.

Don't know why you didn't bring this up sooner?

I backed off because Cerb is carrying the hydra super hard right now and he looks town.

[Shadow_step]

@Shadow - step

You think Nahdia has more patience for Mix6? - with a post like 'UGGHHHH FINE' ? Because it seems like at least ABR portion of hydra and Nahdia -definitely- did not have much patience for one another.

Is that where your presumption of it being staged is coming from, or somewhere else?

to be clear are you scum reading nahdia becuase of her style of posting and her wordings?

~Rylai

Nope

Question to anyone who has played with Zulfy before.

Does he tend to self vote a lot ?

@ Xkfyu any town/scum reads so far ?

so why'd you ask these if you followed up on neither of them.

i dislike Shadow but not really for the reasons ive seen other people saying. he's doing the "asking questions and then not caring about the answers" thingie. also has misrepped me a few times with regards to my RI vote and my interaction with Mixed6. the stuff about defending lurkers is less alignment indicative; i've done that as town. minicase in 408 is good.

VOTE: Shadow_step

Say what ?

XK hasn't answered that yet.
About Zulfy, what do you expect me to reply "okay" to the 3-4 people who have replied to that ?

There was hardly anything to follow up to that.

[Shadow_step]

XK hasn't answered that yet.
About Zulfy, what do you expect me to reply "okay" to the 3-4 people who have replied to that ?

There was hardly anything to follow up to that.

What followup do you expect to have with XK's reads? What did the answers you got about Zulfy tell you? What are you doing to try to do anything >_>

You don't seem like you're trying to find scum, that's my inclination so far. You seem like you're asking questions to that deflect attention but hopefully make it look like you're doing stuff. Same thing RI is doing except RI at the very least seems proactive and engaged. I'm watching development there closely tho. Wanna fight?

Gee Willikers would also be a good huntmaster candidate. Forgot them earlier.

I find it extremely unlikely that "all" 6 hydras are town, don't you?

Gambler's fallacy is knocking at your door friend.

Not quite what Gambler's Fallacy means but close enough

His reads will help me read

him

better.

I would have considered self voting scummy if people hadn't pointed out that Zulfy is apparently very trollish.
So I didn't pursue that further. Is there anything improbable here ?

[Shadow_step]

@ Xkfyu any town/scum reads so far ?

I'm town reading Almost50 and Ranger. I feel like I want to town read RI, but Elbirn completely fooled me in Space Dandy, so I'm cautious.

I don't have a clue as to who my scum reads are yet though, but I have a bit of catch up to do right now.

Why are you town reading ranger? Just because of her first post about not wanting to claim or anything else?

[Shadow_step]

I don't have much to say to people who have already decided that I'm scum.
Sensei is coming off as really arrogant scum to me right now. Surely he couldn't be this confident about me flipping scum if he was town. I would love to see his reaction after my flip(I wish could).

Shinobi wasn't bothered at all, before Mixed asked him to pressure lurkers, his initial vote on me was a "pressure" vote, he's decided to keep it there cause idk it's convenient maybe?

Bogre and Nahdia are both voting me because of Sensei's case on me which is kinda lame if they are town they shouldn't be so easily led.

[Shadow_step]

Who was that who claimed that KC is most probably town, since she is the current huntmaster and got to decide her hunting party?
Don't remember what page it was.

Anyway I don't like that logic, simply cause its entirely possible that she is scum and there was a limit on the amount of scum buddies she could have included on her party.

Add to the fact that (IMO) she has avoided all the major discussions mainly and has answered all the easy peasy stuff thrown at her,

I'm reading her as nullish scum.

[Shadow_step]

I haven't played with anyone before cerb, except XK. So whatever my thoughts are not affected by meta.
Is that how she generally plays ?
Can you see where I'm coming from ?

[Shadow_step]

Spoiler: First half of Shadow_steps ISO, with some commentary and questions which I'd like him to respond to.

Had to read 7 pages in one go.

Super saturated.

VOTE: Xkfyu

This was dumb. What does super saturated even mean? Were you incapable of offering up any sort of commentary on the game so far at this point, or what?

I don't like this entrance at all. It doesn't add anything and has a vote on someone who hasn't been scummy at all.

Want to hear more from this slot.

Sure.

It's not a serious vote.

As to why I voted him, it's because we know each other from another gaming site.

Null, meaninglessness.

Question to anyone who has played with Zulfy before.

Does he tend to self vote a lot ?

What was your objective with this question? What is your first thougth when you see someone self vote like that, and how does that position change if you have meta knowledge that they've done it before?

Wgeurts: I'm always this engaged...but it's rare that my engagement is as purposeful as it's been in this game, yes.

Shadow_step: Zulfy is the trolliest of trolls imo. I've never seen him self vote, but I've seen him do things which display a degree of incompetence such that I wouldn't put anything past him. A singular self vote, though, isn't a big deal. So, do you have any meaningful contributions to make? Your ISO is exactly as useless and empty as Zulfy's.

ABR: Stop it. Your other head is being reasonable, but you're ruining all of that and making me wish you'd just let them play without you.

-Cerb

pedit: Yay, a truce or something.

Since I'm not 100% on top of all game mechanics I will skip the "random" part (just in case someone can empower my vote to some degree or someone can lower the lynch threshold ridiculously).

I'm not really seeing this ^ as scummy as some others are.
There isn't much scum benefit in posting something like this.
Whatever little is there doesn't outweigh the risk. (IMO)

Valid. Now, did you mean you didn't see it as scummy at all, or that you just didn't see it as being AS scummy as others saw it?

@ Xkfyu any town/scum reads so far ?

XKFYU interaction again, noted.

@Shinobi, there are no threats there, I'm just letting you know what the situation is. You're acting scummy right now. I'm not being nice about it. You seem to be implying you've got more than just reads, though. Unless you think we're idiots we can probably handle leads. If you're not just blowing smoke and you want to help town here you should pick up your game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

No, I'm implying that I'm hard to read. Try asking your other head about it some time.
I'm not really trying to come off condescending or anything about it either - I've played this game for a long time and I'm so confusing that a surprisingly large number of players outright give up trying to read me after a few games.

I don't think that your case is that strong considering most of the people posting (aside from me apparently) look okay and there's very little separating the slew of current inactives warranting voting any of them over any others, which puts me in a weird spot considering

I don't really care who we lynch among them since, you know, they're not doing anything and they're not trying to move the game in any significant direction.

Lot of scum benefit than town, in getting players with lower activity lynched. As it generally means that town won't learn much.

Okay. This is the scummy thing that lots of people get all super suspicious of right? It is terrible, I agree. Let me school you on something here Shadow_step: when you get to the endgame, the last people town want alive are the ones who have done NOTHING all game long, who you have nothing to go off of when you're trying to figure out that crucial lylo lynch. Lynching for information is dumb, and that's basically what you're saying here. You're suggesting that it's more important to lynch active players because they offer more information, than it is to lynch inactive ones. Though I can somewhat see your perspective, the problems with that are twofold: One, by doing so, you stagnate the game, and leave it populated with players who aren't actually doing anything. Town apathy mounts, and scum easily win. Two, there is much to be said about inactivity as an indicator of scum play. It's much easier to be inactive than to actually engage with the game and have to fake it. There isn't necessarily any causation there(that's very dependent on the player) but there IS frequently a correlation.

You may have addressed this. If you have, I'll run into the post in this read through. If you haven't, please explain why you feel that lynching active players for information is more valuable than lynching slots who are innately more likely to be scum.

I think that we've got my top scum pick as of now. Congratulations! That takes some work. It's a lurker saying that going after lurkers is anti-town unless I'm not seeing what they're saying. Care to help me out?

What is this, RL day 3 of Day 1, neh?
The time during which the thread is mostly active also happens to be the time when I'm asleep.
I don't intend to clog the thread with stuff that's already been said and parrot people.

Well, then what do you have to say that hasn't already been said? Do you agree with EVERYTHING that had been said up to that point? You don't have to clog the thread and parrot people in order to establish which side of the various issues you support, and we NEED you to share that information with us, so please do.

Just tell me what your reads are.

I'm reading Almost 50 as town(slightly) because of the reasons stated in #221.
It's relatively easy to jump on his wagon right now, I think there is at least one scum on his wagon.
Sensei most probably, never explained his vote on A50.

Nahdia seems to be getting a free ride so far for her weird posting style, which apparently she does a lot as town, which she can easily duplicate as scum too. Weak vote on A50 before, now she's voting RI for meta reasons.

i HATE META.

So what the fuck is going on?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sensei

How well do you know Sensei? Have you played with him before? Same with Nahdia. Do you know she can easily duplicate what she does as scum? Are you simply assuming a certain level of competence from her? If that's the case, why aren't you assuming Sensei is competent enough to state a reason for his vote, as scum, in an environment where many others had already stated reasons to vote A50. Is it really scummy to not "parrot" others, as you refuse to do yourself? Do you demand that every vote be accompanied by a decent explanation, or are there occasions where context is sufficent for you to understand why someone made a vote?

instead of assuming I'm some drooling idiot who couldn't bullshit up something about him looking like a glob of fake or whatever if I were scum.

Why can't I make that assumption?

Why would you make that assumption about him, but not about Nahdia?

A better question is - why would you?

You don't want to assume, you want to understand my motivation for doing things.

Or do you?

You expect me to assume that you have a legit reason to vote A50, but I cannot make this assumption?

It's your job to explain why you are voting someone, neh?

Agreed on that, btw, in spite of my earlier prodding about it. I hate when people just make naked votes, but I find it more productive to ask the individual in question why they made the vote. Read their ISO, look at the context, and question them to see if what they say makes sense. I don't understand why you'd jump to the assumption that Sensei is scum wholly because he made a blank vote.

I'll have the rest up in the morning, unless he actually shows up and responds to this portion before I go to sleep.
-Cerb

Self voting is not a very town thing to do. RVS votes actually provide town with more info than given credit for.

Self voting denies town that information. I asked that question because FA had mentioned that Zulfy is a troll, so his self vote could actually be NAI.

About the lynching lurkers thing. I didn't say that we should be lynching the active players. I meant that lynching someone just because they are apparently lurking is stupid.
Players should be lynched for scumminess not activity.

I have never really been in a game this big so it took time to get used to reading so many posts, analysing etc.

The thing with Sensei I saw it as opportunistic scum jumping on a wagon *shrug*

[Shadow_step]

Shinobi , D&D , Bogre , Mixed6

D&D
Mixed6
Bogre
Shinobi

scuminess increases as we go down.

D&D I'm not town reading as much as the others, sure they revealed an ability of theirs very early in the game, which is quite townish. But the ability itself isn't that spectacular in the first place to be kept a secret. Defo worth revealing for town creds and it worked, didn't it?

Mixed6, is null for me right now. I'm getting opposite vibes from both heads.

Bogre is nullish scum for me.

But more importantly: as far as elaborate reads go, I still think the opposite: scum day 1 are more likely to proffer multi-step paper-mache reads, whereas town play day 1 is much more often gut and on the fly.

So that's where I think his early paranoia is scummy: because it reads to me like he's developing those elaborate but paper-mache reasonings before he votes.

I believe he has a stronger scum read on A50, but he would rather vote me.

Pages on pages of stuff going on and the re-entrance being 'town won't learn much if you lynch lurkers'.

But not doing much of anything to dynamically change that.

UNVOTE

VOTE: Shadow_step

At the time of this post, Bogre himself had done less than me^ Extremely hypocritical

I have a scum read on Shinobi, for the case on ranger, the reluctance to drop it and how easily he was led on by Mixed.

I don't really think my case on Ranger is good anymore but I'm struggling to find an alternative.

He's a useless nonentity with very few reads - less if you consider that one of them is based on something that doesn't exist.

Useless=scum, in his world. *slow claps*

If I die, absolutely 100% lynch that hydra because that shot was complete nonsense.

This is how scum react. Would scum R&L be so dumb to day vig him, no.

[Shadow_step]

Did Nahdia ever respond to you about why she was so much more patient with Mixed6 here?

Nope

She just used it as a reason to vote me, basically.

Cool, answer to the previous questions, FINALLY. How have his reads helped you read him so far? In what way? Do you expect his reads to match your own? Differ significantly? Are you looking for the REASONS/lack thereof, or do you just care about the existence of a read?

His play his way off. He uses his vote a lot more than he has in this game. I wanted to see if he has any scum reads yet. Maybe it's got to do with how busy he is in RL. I'll give him the benefit of doubt for now.
Some of his reads do match mine. I am reading A50 as town as well.

[Shadow_step]

this doesn't make any sense. if you believe has a genuine scumread, then you think he's really scumhunting. which means he's not scum. unless you think he's like, an indie with an ulterior motive? or you thin this is multiball.

You are not getting the point at all. I said(IMO) Bogre has a bigger scum read on A50 but he's voting me instead.
So if he is town why would he do that?

[Shadow_step]

you're right im not getting the point. if he has a scumread, that means he's town. right?

*facepalm*

I can't deal with this, sorry.

Scum have "scum reads" as well.

[Shadow_step]

Your read in which head is what? and why?

zorblag - nullish scum
Rampage - nullish town
Rampage was trolling a lot yesterday, I don't see any scum motivation in that. If anything it could have actually led to him losing some town creds. So if he was scum he had absolutely no benefit in doing that.
Zorblag, it's mostly gut.

the ability your talking about is the only way they can vote. so what about revealing it was townish , or what about keeping it secret matter at all?

Could have used it to hammer in the later days, as they can use it privately.

[Shadow_step]

Shadow you mind answering the questions I asked you?

~Rylai

Patience

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shinobi

[Shadow_step]

man did u guys know that if u highlight a certain section of a post then press quote, only that section of the post will be in the quote tags? amazing.

I know this. You only realized this now huh

[Shadow_step]

I was hoping somebody would notice but nevermind. Moving on to more important things.

@Xk:
Apologies, I didn't know you were away. I'll back off for now, but I'd like to engage with you more when you get back.
Are you scumreading Sensei?

No apology necessary, nor should you back off if you think I'm scum, just because I'm away at training.

I don't think I'm scum reading Sensei, no. I tend to lean scum on Senseie naturally, for some reason, but he ends up being town.

Why aren't you voting anyone yet? You don't have any scum reads? Or you haven't caught up properly?

[Shadow_step]

Also -since you seem to be in the mood- please explain to me how you read each of the 4 currently on your wagon, as well as why you think they're voting you. (NOT their publicly announced reasoning, but what you think is the real motive for each of them to vote you).

I've called Ranger scum a number of times because she keeps coming up with mediocre reasons to scumread me and she doesn't really do anything outside of that. Her points are generic and weak and that's really all she has to her name atm. I keep expecting her to do

something

but she keeps hiding behind her "lazy town excuse" and keeps pushing people to vote me over nothing.
DnD looks significantly better to me more recently because Daenarys made some strong attempts to talk to me (specifically, the bit where she kept trying to explain her points even after it seemed like we were at an impasse came off as super towny).
Nahdia naturally doesn't trust me because she knows I'm strong as scum so that's not really surprising. She's still a townlean atm.

I don't actually know what to think of you atm.

You keep saying you think Ranger is scum, but you do absolutely nothing about it.

You think being useless is a scum trait ?
You are too happy with my wagon ATM and if you hadn't been pushed by certain players I don't think you would have bothered posting anything else at all.

[Shadow_step]

HUNTMASTER VOTE: RYLAI & LINA

Would vote A50, but I don't think there is much support for him, and out of the current candidates I'm leaning more town towards them.

[Shadow_step]

Tbh the way RI jumped on that question mark thing is skeeving me out a little, reminding me of their jumping into Shinobi/Nahdia argument in the beginning of the game

I'll talk to Cakes first but I'm prepared to vote Shadow at this point

-Daenerys

If you're confident in your read, why do you need to ask him?
Also, do you have any compelling case or just the same bs?

[Shadow_step]

Actually, since we're on the subject,

Mod, can we please get a prod on PeregrineV? It's been two days since the last post. Thanks!

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

There is zero need for this.
Varsoon is a good enough mod to realise what he needs to do and what he doesn't.

I don't like so much concerned townie.

I would also like to near why are you scum reading Peregrine so much, just because he hasn't posted much or something else ?

[Shadow_step]

Im starting this wagon
VOTE: Rylai and Lina
Join me?

What is the case?

[Shadow_step]

Im starting this wagon
VOTE: Rylai and Lina
Join me?

Seems bad.
Explain?

Also I'm going to be afk until tonight.

Im starting this wagon
VOTE: Rylai and Lina
Join me?

What is the case?

I'm reading both of these as scum reactions. both feel fake and opportunistic specially shodow's way of responding.

~Rylai

Oppurtunistic in what sense?
I want to know why he is voting you, how is that a scum reaction. Confused.com

[Shadow_step]

Frozen and Nahdia, I'm putting you in charge of putting together a list of the players who are not pulling their weight in terms of activity in this game. I will go through both your lists and tell you which one I want lynched and will drive that wagon. Cerb will follow my lead and then the rest of the town will fall in line or be destroyed. I will be voted master of the hunt, we will lynch scum, and go to night.

Let's get to it.

yeah ok. the more this list goes down means more scummy

Ranger (She is acting very lazy and I don't like that , but posting reads is what he do and so far I like them. its just , she didn't post some for a while)
Toogeloo (he explained why he is busy , but he posted some stuff and they didn't trigger me off. although i like him to talk about his Nahdia read.)
Heuristic_Arrow ( hydra - replaced in a long time ago - did nothing ...)
Klingoncelt (she is making posts and she is active but I can't see progress and her reads)
Xkyfu (Not playing the game - although nothing occurred to me alarming- simply null)
PeregrineV (his posts about using patches as a tool to clear dungens , although seems stupid but felt genuine so it gave me slight town lean. but he is not doing anything in game beside that which is simply null )
Hastur and Muriel (hydra - started the game - did nothing beside some very old catch up posts ...)
Gee Willikers (hydra - one head is in page 34 as he claimed and the other is not bothering to catch up. I simply have no read on them but I consider them both as active MS players and their inactivity is bugging me.)
Sensei (I mentioned this so many times so far. I see him as a potential townleader and his inactivity is bugging me)
Zulfy (I completly forgot he is in game... wtf)
Shadow_Step (his 34 posts are basically worse than eachother - I can't see his reads or his try for sorting anyone that is deeply concerning)
Bogre (he can be nominated for worst scummy entrance post and he is siply not here after that)

ehem ^ this is incredibly bad ...

are we playing this game?

~Rylai

Being hyper active is not my style and I'm well aware of the fact that we can't win the game on D1. So I don't over do it.
If there is something scummy I will question it, if there is a particular player I have a town read on I will explain it.

[Shadow_step]

@ D&D: I don't really have any read on Peregrine, he could be of either alignment as far as I'm concerned.

[Shadow_step]

@Shdow I felt your preparing to buddy me or a preparations to see if there is enough angry people becuase of my interactions with Fire ; to jump on me (sinsce that was Dwlee's case). I am a very paranoid person.

now some questions from you.

- Whats your read on everyone ? I'm repeating "Everyone"
- Do you consider yourself as a lynch bait at this point or do you think the fact that your getting scum readed by so many people is something normal and you can handle it later in game?

you seem pretty easy about it.

~Rylai

Town - A50
Town lean - R&L
Nullish town - RI, Mixed 6
Scum - Shinobi, Sensei

everyone else is pretty much null tbh

[Shadow_step]

- Do you consider yourself as a lynch bait at this point or do you think the fact that your getting scum readed by so many people is something normal and you can handle it later in game?

It's not something normal, but I get why some people are scum reading me.
I can handle it, bring it.

[Shadow_step]

Write one sentence about each of your reads

Whats your read on Shinobi's recent posts explaining his read on you?

~Rylai

I have already done that in an earlier post and will link you to it tomorrow, on the phone right now.

Shinobi hasn't explained anything except he finds the reason I voted Sensei very weak and that I'm useless. Which is apparently a scum trait, according to him. I think that's complete bs.
By that logic he should be scum reading approximately 12 people at least.

[Shadow_step]

Anybody who's alignment is in doubt shouldn't be huntsmaster, hard rule.

So that's nobody then?
Except ofc self voting which is meh

HUNTMASTER VOTE: NOBODY

[Shadow_step]

This is not softing or hard claiming or tipping on my role or anything. There are reasons I'm asking this :

It's not something normal, but I get why some people are scum reading me.
I can handle it, bring it.

why are they scum reading you.

I know the answer. I want you repeating it to me from your view.

~Rylai

Scum are voting me because its convenient for them. They don't need to explain themselves much plus even after my flip they wouldn't be pressurised for it as "Shadow was scummy AF and needed to be lynched" meh.

Town are voting me because they don't have any better scum reads : P

[Shadow_step]

I have something interesting to say, but that can wait. >.>

[Shadow_step]

I have something interesting to say, but that can wait. >.>

No, it can't. Speak up.

-Cerb

I was hoping to get some town reads off of this exercise, but no luck.

I don't think that's going to happen anyway so here goes.

If you look at my ISO and the vote counts you'll realise that I shifted my vote twice without posting in the thread....
I didn't pm the mod to switch votes either ...

[Shadow_step]

I have something interesting to say, but that can wait. >.>

No, it can't. Speak up.

-Cerb

I was hoping to get some town reads off of this exercise, but no luck.

I don't think that's going to happen anyway so here goes.

If you look at my ISO and the vote counts you'll realise that I shifted my vote twice without posting in the thread....
I didn't pm the mod to switch votes either ...

Ah. Yeah, people aren't paying enough attention to you.

FA, I enjoy playing with you. However you're be detrimental to the town.

+1

-Cerb

I know right !
I'm apparently some people's biggest scum read.
With one of my vote switches I changed the vote leader. I thought at least that might get some attention. :/

[Shadow_step]

I can't live with myself if they endgame this shit like saga

vote mixed6 for huntmaster

kill shadow too

push sensei too , he is not playing like his town meta at all - according to shiro

You need to come put of your paranoia first.

[Shadow_step]

Vote:

Rylai & Lina

[Shadow_step]

Meh

VOTE: Rylai & Lina

[Shadow_step]

I had two choices, either I could flee hope for a protection and survive the shot or battle it out against whoever tried to kill me last night.

I know my alignment, why should I choose to die?

[Shadow_step]

Loving how R&L is lying right now. I wasn't told who tried to kill me. So there was no way in hell I was going to choose to die.
It could have easily been scum as well.

Also why the hell did you try to kill me?
How about answering that first.

[Shadow_step]

I had two choices, either I could flee hope for a protection and survive the shot or battle it out against whoever tried to kill me last night.

I know my alignment, why should I choose to die?

why you believed that action is coming from scum and not town?

why you confirmed that I gave you the choice to get shot at night or being gladiated? (why you outed me) ?

~Rylai

I wasn't told who it was, it could have been scum as well. Look at it from my angle. I only know my alignment, why should I just choose to die in that situation?

[Shadow_step]

If I was buddies with Bogre. I would have bussed him for the blood echoes.
Jeez thank god you weren't made the huntmaster.

[Shadow_step]

I was the first member of the hunter's nightmare PT, the one Bogre was the host of.
He added me during the day.
Look at his role pm, he gained an insight for every two town players he added.
That's where I switched my votes without posting in the thread.

Why did I out you ? How else would I explain this then ?
Why would I voluntarily choose to galdiate a person who is townread by the majority of the people. It doesn't make sense as scum PR town !

[Shadow_step]

Scum or town*

[Shadow_step]

why should Bogre add Shadow in his nightmare pt

that make no sense

~Rylai

Y
Ranger sent me a message claiming scum last night. Clearly needs to be vigged tonight.
I have potentially caught scum but need to wait for a response from Varsoon.
Also Sensei's flip will be needed to 100% confirm it.

Those messages can be full of lies, you know that right ?

[Shadow_step]

He added me because I'm town and he gains insight. Did you read his role pm ?

[Shadow_step]

1000 BE

[Shadow_step]

He added me because I'm town and he gains insight. Did you read his role pm ?

yeah I read it.

but why you? instead of all these other town he could add?

is there anyone counter claiming this? (to be added in the nightmare thingi?)

~Rylai

Cause there are certain advantages of being in the Hunter's nightmare PT.
Which I won't disclose. That would just be giving scum info.

Maybe he thought I wouldn't be able to put those to good use?
Idk, its a question nobody has an answer to except him and he is dead.

[Shadow_step]

you voluntarily chose to gladiate yourself to me instead of getting killed at night. You didn't know my name but you knew my ability.

why you gladiated yourself to the person who had that ability?

and why you thought outing that Its not a 3p action and its coming from has any effects in explaining this? You gladiated yourself to me becuase you thought my ability is coming from scum?

~Rylai

Yes I thought it was from scum.

[Shadow_step]

@Shadow_step, how many players are in that PT?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

None except me.
The host of the PT wasn't revealed and Bogre died so he only ended up adding me.

I asked Varsoon if that PT is going to remain without a host for the rest of the game, he said yes.

[Shadow_step]

Shadow fate was written in the moment I rang the bell yesterday. He just delayed it and his action is anti town.

I made it perfectly clear and I hinted on my ability and whats the wiser choice all over yesterday.

pedit : nah it doesn't require me to be at L1. You may consider him already dead. a lynch party may slay him to get the prizes or I can do it myself.

~Rylai

Correction: your action is anti town. You chose to use your ability on night 1 itself, just because you thought I was scum.
Anyone is the same situation as me would have chosen to gladiate inspite of their alignment because 1. They don't know who chose to kill them
2. Why would anyone knowingly die if they have an option.

You were too dumb to realise this, its your fault.
You might be a good player but you are reckless and you think ypi have everything figured out when you haven't.

[Shadow_step]

@The All Seeing Sky God: I beseech a change in plan. I no longer need parts 3 and 4 as humbly requested, they have become redundant. Please shift your gaze to Shadow_step and give me the number of players in the Nightmare PT as step 4! Request 2 remains the same. All praise the All Seeing Sky God!

@Shadow_step, are you sure of that answer?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Yes
The Hunter's nightmare PT

[Shadow_step]

You choose the gladiate. I didn't.

correcting you again

~Rylai

You were well aware this could happen when you chose to shoot.

Anyone in my place would have done the same thing.

[Shadow_step]

Oh wait shadow will flip scum and then you will change your mind.

Will you accept you are completely shite at mafia and put that in your signature when I flip town ?

Like ABR said, R&L's judgement is questionable at best and they are recklessly using their ability which is causing town many problems. We should get rid of them asap

[Shadow_step]

Oh wait shadow will flip scum and then you will change your mind.

Will you accept you are completely shite at mafia and put that in your signature when I flip town ?

Like ABR said, R&L's judgement is questionable at best and they are recklessly using their ability which is causing town many problems. We should get rid of them asap

I never had a single wrong read in my past 40 games. beside the one I talked about earlier. Your the one who is shit in this game. you should have killed yourself last night and avoid anything that happened today if you were really town.

My judgement is not in question , at least not by you.

~Rylai

You should have killed yourself to avoid harming town with your stupid ability lol

Everyone will know who is shit after my flip.

[Shadow_step]

Does anyone think Bogre was bussed yesterday for the echoes or town creds even?
If yes, who and why?
If no, then you think everyone stayed off the wagon?

Seeing as he was the daughter of Kos, he was quite an important member(more than others) of he scum team(assuming), they wouldn't have wanted him gone so early.

[Shadow_step]

Isoed Bogre, nothing much to learn from it.

He voted H&M in RVS, then attacked Nahdia for a while over her language, posting style, "obstructionist dribble" whatever you call it.
Then moved his vote onto me.
Then questioned Toog's stance on Patches the spider.

That's about it.

[Shadow_step]

RIP R&L.

Huntsmaster Vote: Liger_Zero

peeps who were on the hunt, what kind of rewards did you get? do you mind sharing?

I'm assuming they are your biggest town read right now, why?

[Shadow_step]

One thing that I find odd is the Cosmo who was killed N0 btw; no one seemed to think anything about that.

Do you think the death was preplanned/unavoidable, or do you think someone vigged that player? I haven't noticed anyone bring it up yet.

Also, the flips make me strongly think there is either a Janitor or Reviver type role in this game.
~Arrow

Read the entire role pm, their death was unavoidable. Its just for flavour purposes.

[Shadow_step]

IN OLD YHARNAM, A HUNTER SHOOTS AT YOU WITH A GATLING GUN! PROCEEDING THROUGH THE LEVEL NORMALLY USUALLY CULMINATES IN A DIFFICULT FIGHT WITH THIS HUNTER.
HOWEVER, IF YOU DO NOT KILL HIM AND INSTEAD ENTER OLD YHARNAM FROM THE DOORS FOUND AFTER THE DARKBEAST PAARL BOSS FIGHT, YOU CAN APPROACH HIM AND HE WILL BE FRIENDLY, OFFERING ADVICE, GESTURES, AND USEFUL ITEMS.

Or, you know, you could not fight him after going through Old Yharnam normally, and still be fine to get all his goodies after Darkbeast Paarl and still have killed the Blood-starved Beast for access to the Healing Church areas earlier.

V: You need to defeat the Blood-Starved Beast anyway. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure you can't run into the bagmen that bring you to Hypogean Gaol. I suppose you could wait until far, far later in the game when you visit The Unseen City, too. You also don't have to fight Blood Starved Beast to access the Healing Church areas--just beat the Cleric Beast and purchase the Hunter Chief Emblem.

Mixed I think I might be a good choice for Huntmaster for next round.

You need to prove yourself first by being on a scum lynch today. Backing out from Bogre yesterday did you no favors, but your actions from here on out may yet redeem you.

Scum have more reason than any to bus their useless buddies though. Honestly, I'd almost say that anyone completely hesitant to join on the Bogre wagon may have greater likelihood of actually

earning

town points. Plus, there was almost assuredly scum on the wagon considering the Monocle was purchased (which costs more than what should have cost more than had likely been earned at that point).


These were the end of day votes yesterday...
Xkfyu, Randomidget, Ranger, Hastur and Muriel, Toogeloo, Almost50, Sensei, Reasonably Irrational, Rylai and Lina (BLOODLETTER), Nahdia, Shinobi, Mixed6

Remove Sensei because he died.
Also remove Reasonably Irrational, Mixed6, Rylai and Lina (maybe), Ranger, and Klingoncelt for purchasing items and that leaves us with...

Xkfyu (House), Randomidget, Hastur and Muriel, Toogeloo, Almost50, Nahdia, and Shinobi.

I personally feel we should be lynching from this group.

My heirarchy from least desired lynch to most desired lynch would be...

Toogeloo
Nahdia
Almost50
Shinobi
Randomidget
Xkfyu
Hastur and Muriel

Vote: Hastur and Muriel

I agree with this assessment. I think the people we should also be looking at are H_arrow and Gee Willikers both of them didn't vote anyone.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Bogre
back 2 this.

LOL I really hope that is real, ngl. I don't understand this game anyway.

death jester confirmed.

what exactly do you guys mean when u keep saying u don't "trust R&L's judgement"?

We're at like L-5. We need more votes. What do you mean, you will hammer later during the day? Do you get more powers from hammering like Skybird in SAGA? Listen, I somewhat trust your alignment to be town, I don't think you have very good judgment. Deal with it.

no

I won't get anything spescial from hammering and the bloodletter has no reflection on my vote. its something else that i have no indication to explain.

~Rylai

Then just vote for Bogre later today (Tuesday). There's no need to wait to hammer him.

uh. we're voting a lurker. who just got prodded. shouldn't we at least see if there's a replacement? we have 6 days lol.

if we gonna lynch a lurker to make this table more readable fine but like... we shouldn't rush the lynch if that's the case. that's whack.

UNVOTE:

Mixed6 ur gonna look like a massive douchecanoe if bog ends up being town.

and it probably won't deter u in the slightest if that happens, huh?

hey guys here's an idea let's not policy lynch and let someone replace into the game and actually play and if we lynch them and they're scum we'll get assocs

like, im amazed im saying this but i agree with toog im starting to not like this strongarm.

hey guys here's an idea let's not policy lynch and let someone replace into the game and actually play and if we lynch them and they're scum we'll get assocs

like, im amazed im saying this but i agree with toog im starting to not like this strongarm.

We should take account of everyone's ideas before driving a competing wagon or dismantling this one. Pressure is good, it creates drama, it brings suspense, and forces people to give us legitimate reactions. Bandwagons under no threat at all of being lynched, as we have been doing for 95% of this game, are weaksauce that give us false positives when we review.

k well here's my reaction:

i don't want a policy lynch on a slot that is in the process of getting replaced. it feels wrong on multiple levels.

VOTE: Bogre

:\

sorry varsoon. i really hate that the game is being played this way tbh.

The first two quotes are really contradictory.
#2090 and #2106, if she doesn't want to lynxh Bogre then why vote him the in the first place ?

[Shadow_step]

Does anyone think Bogre was bussed yesterday for the echoes or town creds even?
If yes, who and why?
If no, then you think everyone stayed off the wagon?

Seeing as he was the daughter of Kos, he was quite an important member(more than others) of he scum team(assuming), they wouldn't have wanted him gone so early.

Nahdia, can you answer this^

[Shadow_step]

Anyone wanna join my nightmare?

Was this just another example of trolling or did anyone actually get added.
Can anyone confirm?

[Shadow_step]

Dragons, I don't understand why you have a 90% townread on Nahdia. Neither does she. She has full claimed her role and we think she may still be scum. Can you explain yourself?

She hasn't full claimed her role, what are you saying ?

[Shadow_step]

Alright, so in full disclosure... here's what's going on with Nahdia and I.

I am Valtr, One-Shot Slay-Proof Master of "The League."

I own the Private Neighborhood, The League, where I can invite people to join and we can gain Vermin resources for killing players (doesn't specify town or scum, just players). Vermin Resources can be used to purchase items in my League, mostly anti-scum things, like an item to prevent negative actions from targeting the league member who uses it (from other league members), all the way up to the Master's Iron Helm, which tells the owning player how many scum, beasthood, and insight+3 players are alive at the beginning of every Day Phase.

I am One-Shot Slay-Proof, it prevents me from being lynched or night killed one time. I will know when my protection is gone.

Each Night I invite one person to the League, and last night I opted to choose Nahdia. I wanted to pick someone who I thought was townie enough that wasn't likely to die Night 1 but also was at least a semi-strong generally considered town read amongst the greater playerbase as well. She seemed like a good fit.


PEdit (Bogre)... Again, you keep saying I was scum reading Nahdia. I was maybe at the beginning of Day 1, but she moved up my list quite a bit by the end of the day. I'm sure I have a reads list somewhere towards the end of the day where she wasn't a scum read.

PEdit (D&D)... Jesus Age Christ, haven't you been reading at all what my whole analysis was?

There was no need to claim, Nahdia wasn't that close to getting lynched neither were you.

[Shadow_step]

An announcement, oh brave hunters.

As of the beginning of this day, there were 14 town and 5 scum players alive.

Millers and Godfathers dilute these results. Scum refers only to the scum faction; the Cosmos.

The missing player in those results is my own slot; I am officially a 3rd party. That is why the total only amounts to 19 when the vote count reflected 20 living players. In this way, we know there are no other third party members unless their role specifically lists them as a Godfather or investigating as scum.

Wtf lol
Why the need to claim "third party"?
How do you know there are only 5 scum players left? What else can you tell us?

[Shadow_step]

I could get behind a Zulfy lynch

VOTE: Zulfy

[Shadow_step]

The 16th Falcon has landed!

Care to elaborate ?

[Shadow_step]

Town:

Reasonably Rational
Nahdia
House

Leaning Town:

Almost50
Randommidget
Shadow_Step

Null:

Toogeloo
Patches
Daenerys

Scum

Ranger
Dwlee99
PergrineV
Zulfy
Klingoncelt

Most of those are not in any order either for the groupings they are in.

What about H&M?

[Shadow_step]

Who do you want to lynch today RI?
I can't really say I have any strong scum reads.
Just some strong town reads.
Don't mind lynching between Peregrine/Hastur/House

[Shadow_step]

Also, Shadow should've received something today as an fyi. Some time before the gladiate was stopped.
~Arrow

I received this after the gladiate was over actually.
I don't think it's of much use to me, I'm not sure I can give it to someone else.

Will ask Varsoon about it later.

[Shadow_step]

Also, Shadow should've received something today as an fyi. Some time before the gladiate was stopped.
~Arrow

I received this after the gladiate was over actually.
I don't think it's of much use to me, I'm not sure I can give it to someone else.

Will ask Varsoon about it later.

Without going into any other details, would you be so kind as to describe the duration of the effect this "something" grants you?

One night

[Shadow_step]

Who do you want to lynch today RI?
I can't really say I have any strong scum reads.
Just some strong town reads.
Don't mind lynching between Peregrine/Hastur/House

Why not Zulfy?

Don't mind him either, it depends on his content today.
I would also like to know why Elbirn head of RI is town reading that slot.

[Shadow_step]

It specifically refers to the night phase? It can't be during the day?

It can't be during the day.

[Shadow_step]

Since RI wants to bring the other Miller claim into the discussion, let's just bring that all into the light.

It's me.

Before I ascend to beast form, I investigate as scum unless I'm on a town wagon. If I'm on a town wagon, I investigate as the lynched player's flavor, alignment, and role. This way, I know what a player flips before it is public info.

After I ascend to beast form, I will ALWAYS investigate as scum. Hence, Miller.

Now, since we want to talk about me and why I'm wanting to be on lynches, it is not because it makes me investigate as town.

Upon earning 3 beasthood, I become a non-consecutive vig and it will require 2/3 majority to lynch me.

I disclosed every bit of this to RI 2 Nights ago.

Ranger, does the following mean anything to you?

DIE, SCUM!

Xk did say that he had a negative utility on day 1.

[Shadow_step]

Wtf is even going on

[Shadow_step]

Can someone just kill H&M and Peregrine tonight? Thanks

[Shadow_step]

Who do you think is scum then?
Random?

[Shadow_step]

Called Nahdia and KC scum on day 1 meh.

Frozen Angel, let's hear about your 100 percent record now !!??

[Shadow_step]

Ranger should be day 1 policy lynch in every game.

[Shadow_step]

I'm more hurt by this game than Varsoon, back to back after Saga, I feel like his games are punishing me for being right on the money.

Should have continued the tunnel on Nahfia D2

[Shadow_step]

Anyway, thanks for hosting Varsoon, lot of effort put in this game. I don't think it went they way you would have wanted it to.

[Shadow_step]

Keep crying FA.
The game is over but you're still ranting.
It was your own fault that you got lynched.
You abused your powers to show off and it was complete anti town behaviour.

[Shadow_step]

Keep crying FA.
The game is over but you're still ranting.
It was your own fault that you got lynched.
You abused your powers to show off and it was complete anti town behaviour.

I don't have anything to talk about with shitty liars like you

You deserve to loose all your games you useless lurker

Yeah, not gonna go down to your level.

And its lose* btw

[Shadow_step]

Keep crying FA.
The game is over but you're still ranting.
It was your own fault that you got lynched.
You abused your powers to show off and it was complete anti town behaviour.

Oh yes, excuse me. I forgot how useful and pro town you were after we died.

Oh wait, you got town cred and stop giving a fuck.

Even the worst thing we did was better than anything you had to offer for this game.

Infact your shitty play led to us using the bell on you I'm the first place

I never claimed that I did a fucking awesome job this game or anything like that. This was my first large game and tbh I was struggling at times with the amount of posts and getting reads on people.

After day 2, the days were hardly that long that I could actually do anything of any use.
It has already been brought up by the likes of SugarJan that the players who weren't as informed as those who were in active nightmare PTs and Hunt PTs had no idea wtf was going on.

[Shadow_step]

Now, the quicklynches: they were ALL about individuals saying fuck you to the group. First ABR, and then House.

One in the bloc, and one outside, like I said.

You abused your powers to show off and it was complete anti town behaviour.

As I have indicated, I feel this is overly harsh criticism of her play.
Her action was used on D1. She used it in a reasonable manner: you were one of the largest scumreads outside of Bogre (and if you think otherwise, you're delusional), and it made sense to target you, especially not knowing Bogre's alignment. It is considered STANDARD vig play to shoot N1 once, to show you have that power. She did so, on a player many were suspicious of. If you cannot recognize the value there because it just so happened to be YOUR slot she vigged, I'm not sure what else to say.

It was a shot on town. It was, therefore, a sub-optimal shot. It was not, however, the anti-town shot you are so strongly portraying it to be.

You're the delusional one.
Choosing to use that power so early on in the game when you know that 99.99% of the times it is going to result in a gladiate the next day is stupid AF town play.

It's already been discussed how no town player would choose to die instead when they have an option(THEY ONLY KNOW THEIR ALIGNMENT, NOT THE ONE WHO IS SHOOTING THEM)
WHY THE FUCK SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO DIE.

[Shadow_step]

I don't mind you not playing an awesome game, I admit I was far from it as well but bashing us for finding the most optimal use of a hard to optimize power is BS.

I still think you should have accepted death. It was obvious this was coming from a town player

It wasn't obvious which is why I didn't choose to die.
I'm not blaming you for anything.
FA is directly blaming me and A50 and RI for the town loss this game. I'm just responding to that.

[Shadow_step]

FA, the quicker you realise that A50 vigged you because the town bloc didn't trust your judgement in the future, and it wasn't entirely because I was conf town, the better.

[Shadow_step]

cerb and ABR has no right to be in a town block or lead anyone ever

and you weren't conf town you just lied and pretended to be one.

Dunno, it seems every time I end up in a leadership position I solve the entire game exactly one phase too late. :-/

So I guess I shouldn't be in charge of anything, because we always lose, and it just makes me feel like shit because if I had been a tiny bit better we would have won easily.

Lol you shouldn't feel like shit, you're one of the better players I've played against.
Scum did nothing which made them deserve the win, maybe except Nahdia who honestly was just spamming random bs in the thread.