Wake's Massive Role Madness - Game Over

[MathBlade]

/confirm will read later at work

[MathBlade]

Making a cool here open since I am at work til late.

VOTE: Accountant

Because Pi is favorite number and you are third in the voting list and I can't vote

[MathBlade]

Making a cool day open* fuck spell check amirite?

[MathBlade]

20+ pages and just getting off work tonight at 12:30. Nope not happening. Will read tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

K just finished my skim read people.

My thoughts of this thread can be summarized in a few simple sentences.

Pants are awesome for protecting roles.
Cookie Bakers is being derpy but arrogant. This is usually Titus town when this happens.
Hot Chocolate wagon at this point worth analyzing when we know more. The game turning towards lynching a low poster IMHO is interesting.

VOTE: boem_u_dusi

For voting via steak rarity to display confidence but doesn't expand on why and then says they can be uncooked later. I think when boem voted ironavp earlier they were trying to sheep but then realized the wagon wasn't going anywhere so started dropping things from "rare" to innocent child, but there is no explanation of such.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: RachelMarie

Vote not moving I CC RachelMarie. I was in a good with Fire Assassin and ONE other person.

[MathBlade]

Hood*

[MathBlade]

That other person is alive and can confirm.

[MathBlade]

WTF Math

he said he was in more than one hood

He didn't say that to us. Pretty sure that would have been pretty damn important. And you calling yourself mason doesn't make you a mason.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: RachMarie

[MathBlade]

WTF Math

he said he was in more than one hood

He didn't say that to us. Pretty sure that would have been pretty damn important. And you calling yourself mason doesn't make you a mason.

because the masons literally claimed in-thread day 1

did anyone read the game at all

Then why did Fire die who wasn't a claimed mason? Assuming RachMarie is telling the truth why isn't she dead?

[MathBlade]

Sibling*

I am trying to figure out why not a single of the claimed masons got shot. Like I mentioned in the PT w/ Shaziro I had scum reads on Cookie butters and Parama and DGB all as scum reads and this happens. Like what? Assuming there are at least two scum teams in a 42 player game how did they communicate? I can understand WiFoM a bit but that seems a bit much with 4 NKs.

FYI motion detector sees if some activity happened on a slot. It doesn't say what.

And good god. It is not a preference it is my gender.

*glares hard*

[MathBlade]

and why is the auto counter not working trying again

VOTE: ccc

Have to match case.

[MathBlade]

I'm that other person.

Why didn't you talk Math out of that?

~Titus

Didn't ask me about it, but we had agreed to out the hood today. We aren't Masons. Also, Iraon, you lied. What is your real claim?

@ironavp your response?

[MathBlade]

Neopolitan in a game with masons is a scumclaim.

Atleast one of RachMarie or ironavp is scum. See 1800.

VOTE: ironavp

I want one of their heads on a lynch so we get some truth and logic up in here.

[MathBlade]

Neapolitan can check if they are VT or not. I actually checked Shaziro and he is not VT (and obviously he is not we can tell now).

I think CCC is scum-aligned, I'm happy to vote him too.

VOTE: CCC

I think Shaziro (especially), Accountant, CCC, and hebichan are scum-aligned at this stage.

That's why I wrote "especially" next to Shaziro in this post, because I have a result on him.

I still think he is scum-aligned motion detector, there is no reason to claim that...

I highly doubt Shiro is a scum aligned motion detector as all motion detector gives is true false.

[MathBlade]

Neopolitan in a game with masons is a scumclaim.

????

no?

Neopolitan is a designed counter for masons. Seriously. Like if masons exist scum almost always has a neo for balance.

[MathBlade]

BECAUSE IF YOU CHECKED LITERALLY ANYONE OTHER THAN DGB I'M GOING TO LYNCH YOU SO HARD YOU'LL BE AUTOLYNCHED IN EVERY GAME YOU PLAY FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS

Why would I check DrippingGoofball? She is probably town-aligned...

>ROLE THAT CHECKS WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE IS VT

>PROBABLY 90% OF THE GAME IS PRs

>DOESN'T CHECK THE PERSON WHO CLAIMS VT

This I agree with.

[MathBlade]

No. Role Madness does not mean bastard. It means a lot of roles. They must still be balanced.

...Motion detector is pretty useless too. It is just a way for scum to generally get a fake town PR result.

Why do you think Shaziro is scum aligned?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: iraonavp

Because automated vote counter

[MathBlade]

Answer my question iroanavp:

Why do you think Shaziro is scum aligned?

[MathBlade]

@Math, talk to me about CCC please or reads by play, not by mechanics...please...

Iroanavp should be the lynch. I have a scumread on you and so don't want to lynch CCC right now because of that.

[MathBlade]

Yeah, because I am being called scum-aligned just for being VT... That is the stupid part here.

No, you re being called scum-aligned just for

claiming

VT. However, since others have pointed out that this is pretty much how you act whether Town or Scum, for the moment I'm willing to entertain the hypothesis that you are merely being an idiot.

Besides, there are scummier players around.

CCC is likely town and/or not aligned with ironavp if scum. I like them as town because in their posts they explain why they think what they do.

[MathBlade]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

no, it makes pure, perfect, delicious sense, and you either refuse to acknowledge it or are too dumb to understand why it makes sense.

Don't you think scum would coach iraonavp on how to claim neopolitan? His action makes sense for a newbie.

Why would scum tell him that's his fakeclaim and NOT check DGB or Elitism?

I'm not thinking iraonvp is the smartest crayon, but I don't see a scum set of behaviors. Could he be? Sure. Am I a fan of this wagon? No.

~Titus

I am actually. Especially since you tried to confirm DGB and voted ironavp earlier for claiming VT. Now you have proof they are lying and don't want to vote them because you claim this is like a newbie?

I was with a newbie scum Neopolitan who was on his own because both the partners flaked before I replaced in and they didn't fake claim VT. Like newbie town doesn't lie. This reeks of a failed gambit especially with the DGB/Ironavp/Cookie Bakers interactions.

[MathBlade]

the iraon shenanigans were fun but now it's time to lynch the real scum imo

Right, which is why I instead voted Cookie Bakers.

Note how she jumps onto iroanavp for the reasoning "there can't be two vanilla town in a game" but doesn't consider DGB, or that it's a 42 person game
They also didn't consider that iroanavp didn't see the initial claim (which I believe regardless of his alignment) and used that as reasoning while ignoring the other points on him

-Dunn

Dgb is obvtown. It's it could be 45678875543 role madness. By it's nature, role madness strongly suggests only one vt.

I don't believe iraonvp because the stance is very unlikely given his posts.

Yeah, iron's scum. The wagon on us is gross.

~Titus

....This is fishy. This is what I am saying. I am not sure what the hell happened here but this is very weird from Titus.

[MathBlade]

for clarification's sake:

Shaziro, what specifically is your result on ira? did you get his exact role or a VT/not VT result?

p-edit: mathblade is bleeding town all over the place, i have no clue why anyone is voting him

I saw him use a Neapolitan check. I was checking the scummiest of the VT claims to me, and look, I was right. He was lying.

VOTE: Iraonavp

Pedit-math can confirm, I specifically told the hood that I would be getting information on iraon to help solve this VT business.

I do confirm this.

@Titus -- Your response to the post I linked where you talked about Iroanavp?

[MathBlade]

the iraon shenanigans were fun but now it's time to lynch the real scum imo

Right, which is why I instead voted Cookie Bakers.

Note how she jumps onto iroanavp for the reasoning "there can't be two vanilla town in a game" but doesn't consider DGB, or that it's a 42 person game
They also didn't consider that iroanavp didn't see the initial claim (which I believe regardless of his alignment) and used that as reasoning while ignoring the other points on him

-Dunn

Dgb is obvtown. It's it could be 45678875543 role madness. By it's nature, role madness strongly suggests only one vt.

I don't believe iraonvp because the stance is very unlikely given his posts.

Yeah, iron's scum. The wagon on us is gross.

~Titus

....This is fishy. This is what I am saying. I am not sure what the hell happened here but this is very weird from Titus.

Response Titus.

*glares*

No. CCC I have a town read on. Iroanavp is where we should be lynching.

I do not see a newbie player claiming VT out of the gate lying in a setup like this. I have played with Iroanavp enough for them to understand town don't lie. Iroanavp is scum.

Furthermore they probably claimed it as a VT cop thinking they probably wouldn't get checked by another cop. If you are a cop and scum aligned claiming VT makes sense as scum.

Rope Iroanavp today. Anyone suggesting otherwise gets FoS's from me. Shiny ones.

[MathBlade]

despite that, i still don't want to lynch iraon.

were he scum, he didn't HAVE to claim to mask his role.

HE COULD HAVE SAID NOTHING THE ENTIRE DAY.

Does no one, does no one agree with this?

iraon draws needless attention via the VT claim, gets himself rolecopped and outed day 2?

alternate possible scenario world:


iraon is scum neapolitan, he says nothing, we lynch town, 4 town turn up dead, he keeps his role and keeps it to himself?

Is there like, something I'm missing here?

- Zach

so can we rope CCC today?

~Titus

please no

I disagree. In a role madness game a Neo is huge for scum. IMHO a Neopolitan is one of the best roles for scum. This makes them have to fight to keep the Neopolitan alive.

[MathBlade]

why on earth would he claim his actual role when asked on day one

dude. it's role madness.

I'm slow so please tell me what that has to do with what I said if you were addressing me, please.

He claimed VT sans provocation if memory serves. Getting the post now.

[MathBlade]

Okay, first of all in that game I was being deliberately quiet because I was bodyguard.

It's role madness?
Even for BODYGUARD you were careful

So why not this game?

-Dunn

Because I am just vanilla ("Citizen") in this game.

Here. This. Unprovoked claimage. No idea if in danger of NK or not so claiming to avoid NK is bullshit.

Iroanavp needs to be lynched.

[MathBlade]

the iraon shenanigans were fun but now it's time to lynch the real scum imo

Right, which is why I instead voted Cookie Bakers.

Note how she jumps onto iroanavp for the reasoning "there can't be two vanilla town in a game" but doesn't consider DGB, or that it's a 42 person game
They also didn't consider that iroanavp didn't see the initial claim (which I believe regardless of his alignment) and used that as reasoning while ignoring the other points on him

-Dunn

Dgb is obvtown. It's it could be 45678875543 role madness. By it's nature, role madness strongly suggests only one vt.

I don't believe iraonvp because the stance is very unlikely given his posts.

Yeah, iron's scum. The wagon on us is gross.

~Titus

....This is fishy. This is what I am saying. I am not sure what the hell happened here but this is very weird from Titus.

Response Titus.

*glares*

No. CCC I have a town read on. Iroanavp is where we should be lynching.

I do not see a newbie player claiming VT out of the gate lying in a setup like this. I have played with Iroanavp enough for them to understand town don't lie. Iroanavp is scum.

Furthermore they probably claimed it as a VT cop thinking they probably wouldn't get checked by another cop. If you are a cop and scum aligned claiming VT makes sense as scum.

Rope Iroanavp today. Anyone suggesting otherwise gets FoS's from me. Shiny ones.

No, I'm town-aligned!

I'm not newbie, but I don't see what is wrong with lying. I lied in a way to ultimately benefit the town-aligned players until Shaziro intervened to try and mislynch me...

I will admit that I didn't consider if I would be checked by a motion detector when I originally claimed... The only think that I wanted to do was not die.

Stop guessing different roles that checked you. I won't say one way or another.

[MathBlade]

dude. it's role madness.

What?

Yes, it is. That is why I said "slightly"...

Does this have any relevance whatsoever?

there are town VTs. there are scum VTs (goon). there are third-party VTs (serial killer). being a VT or not being a VT is literally not alignment indicative.

On Mafiascum Neopolitan only returns "vanilla" on town. It is different than other sites/F2F hence why it is primarily used as a scum balancer on MafiaScum.

[MathBlade]

Oh so this is different then true MafiaScum for Neopolitan lovely.

Pedit: Bunches of posts just a sec

[MathBlade]

VOTE: RachelMarie

Vote not moving I CC RachelMarie. I was in a good with Fire Assassin and ONE other person.

That'd be the 3rd neighbourhood outed in the game. I don't see how this is a CC though, since Egg also claimed to be in 2 different hoods!!

It was a CC because Fire didn't claim two hoods in ours.

[MathBlade]

Okay, first of all in that game I was being deliberately quiet because I was bodyguard.

It's role madness?
Even for BODYGUARD you were careful

So why not this game?

-Dunn

Because I am just vanilla ("Citizen") in this game.

Here. This. Unprovoked claimage. No idea if in danger of NK or not so claiming to avoid NK is bullshit.

Iroanavp needs to be lynched.

Kinda have to agree with math here. I personally believe Ira is scum, Titus thinks he might have just made horrible choices

No, I'm town-aligned!

Mathblade is purely saying I am scum-aligned because I rolled neapolitan, it makes zero sense...

He always tunnels me for no reason as well...

I am saying you are scum aligned because you lied, deceived town, and then lied about why you lied about your claim because it was unprovoked.

Furthermore in that game I had reasons for why I voted you. I never do a naked vote. I may not explain myself well but I always explain myself.

I do not vote because of a claim. I vote based on how a player claims and if there is contradictory evidence of that claim or evidence that supports it.

[MathBlade]

also:

VOTE: CCC

cookie made me a promise. boring needs to die asap too.

...This is terribad.

Iroanavp needs lynching. And how the hell did Cookie make you a promise? And why the hell would you listen to a promise agreement from one of the scummiest players in the game?

[MathBlade]

Okay, first of all in that game I was being deliberately quiet because I was bodyguard.

It's role madness?
Even for BODYGUARD you were careful

So why not this game?

-Dunn

Because I am just vanilla ("Citizen") in this game.

Here. This. Unprovoked claimage. No idea if in danger of NK or not so claiming to avoid NK is bullshit.

Iroanavp needs to be lynched.

What?

I thought I would be killed if I claimed my real role...

Why did you have to claim at all?

So that I didn't get killed...

It was less than a 1000 posts in. There was no danger of death yet. Flail harder.

[MathBlade]

also:

VOTE: CCC

cookie made me a promise. boring needs to die asap too.

...This is terribad.

Iroanavp needs lynching. And how the hell did Cookie make you a promise? And why the hell would you listen to a promise agreement from one of the scummiest players in the game?

where is cookie one of the scummiest players in the game?

how is ccc not being a completely and total hypocrite not scummy?

Explain their hypocrisy like I am two. Because I don't see it.

The post I linked for starters. The blatant contradiction in terms of Iroanavp's claim. At first they didn't believe it and called them scum. Now when confronted with evidence their initial post is right they say Iroanavp is town. The most likely scenario is Cookie Butters and Iroanavp are aligned.

[MathBlade]

Okay, first of all in that game I was being deliberately quiet because I was bodyguard.

It's role madness?
Even for BODYGUARD you were careful

So why not this game?

-Dunn

Because I am just vanilla ("Citizen") in this game.

Here. This. Unprovoked claimage. No idea if in danger of NK or not so claiming to avoid NK is bullshit.

Iroanavp needs to be lynched.

Kinda have to agree with math here. I personally believe Ira is scum, Titus thinks he might have just made horrible choices

No, I'm town-aligned!

Mathblade is purely saying I am scum-aligned because I rolled neapolitan, it makes zero sense...

He always tunnels me for no reason as well...

I am saying you are scum aligned because you lied, deceived town, and then lied about why you lied about your claim because it was unprovoked.

Furthermore in that game I had reasons for why I voted you. I never do a naked vote. I may not explain myself well but I always explain myself.

I do not vote because of a claim. I vote based on how a player claims and if there is contradictory evidence of that claim or evidence that supports it.

Yeah, well that is a silly and policy lynch reason to vote someone...

I lied about my claim to ultimately promote a town-aligned agenda, surely you can see that! This is so short-sighted, and I can't tell if it's deliberate or not considering how you tunneled me similarly baselessly last time I played with you...

The main reason you were pushing and deliberately neglect to mention here is that somehow masons mean neapolitan is automatically scum-aligned, even though this is proven false.

Lynching someone with a counter claim against them is NOT a policy lynch. I do not see lying to promote a town agenda. I could see being a bit scummy or lurky to avoid the NK but not deliberately mislead town. Especially when that was around the other time claims came in.

Like I said. It is not the claim but how you claim.

[MathBlade]

Iraon lied about his role for no reason other than to "Stay alive" by his own admission. That's a scummy mindset to begin with. He wasn't asked for a roleclaim, nobody expected it, people got annoyed when he -did- claim. And then he let the town go chasing after their own damn tails trying to figure out who was lying about their VT claim when he knew the whole time it was him. How the hell does that benefit town in any way? Then, he's arguing that finding out that I'm not a VT means I'm scum. Ignoring the fact that I specifically said I would be getting information -on him- to -sort out this VT shit-, he's trying to argue that I just got lucky that he checked me. If I had that kind of premonition, I'd be playing the damn powerball, not Mafia. But he still wants to push me as scum, because he's been caught.

So far, we've got him lying for no good reason, doing things to keep himself alive rather than benefit town, contradicting himself with the "I didn't know it was Role Madness" DESPITE THAT BEING IN THE NAME OF THE GAME, AND THERE BEING ACTIVE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF VTS IN A ROLE MADNESS GAME, WITH SEVERAL LINKS TO "ROLE MADNESS" ON THE FUCKING WIKI, letting town sit there in a death spiral about who the fuck was lying about a VT which is -actively harmful- to town, and all he has to say other than that is "but I'm town guys, for reals".

Lynch. This. Shit.

Investigatives do things to survive too.

Being a flawed human being doesn't make someone scum.

ABR is notorious for lying as town.

Sometimes lying is the best play.

Just because it's not good ideal or what you'd do doesn't make it scummy.

Why aren't you voting CCC?

~Titus

No. That is the definition of scummy is not good for town.

What you should be saying and are not is that it isn't alignment indicative. But antitown things are by definition scummy. Town players can do scummy things but this is terribad.

Lying is absolutely horrible and in this case Iroanavp lied again. Either he fake claimed to survive longer and therefore has an important role. Which in this case Iroanavp discounts his importance so his entire theory about why he claimed is shit. And therefore he is scum.

[MathBlade]

CCC is clearly a counter lynch proposed against iroanavp.

CCC's poking of iroanavp was pretty good to me. I am not interested in a CCC lynch when we have pretty damn near confirmed scum in Iroanavp. Especially when one of the slots pushing it heavily.

If only I had enough votes I would hard lynch ironavp no regrets.

[MathBlade]

No I understand how it works.

Ok that makes more sense I guess that you didn't think it was role madness when you claimed. (Even though it's in the title but ok)

My only real issue now is you knowing it was role madness and still targeting Shaziro but I'll chalk that up to you not understanding how your role works.

VOTE: CCC

I will say however that Ira, you made an idiotic decision and that happens sometimes. I've been there. But when it does happen you can't point fingers at everyone else. You were wrong. Admit it and move on. /endrant

P-edit: Bacde is a great vote too
I also implore people to look at Almost and Lapsa.

This is fucking horrible.
Iroanavp lied. They make up a new lie. Then you believe it and vote the goddamn counter wagon. WTF?!?!?!

[MathBlade]

It is the fucking title of the game! How the heck does someone not know role madness when it is in the title?

The fact a counter wagon even has air is disappointing.

[MathBlade]

CCC is clearly a counter lynch proposed against iroanavp.

CCC's poking of iroanavp was pretty good to me. I am not interested in a CCC lynch when we have pretty damn near confirmed scum in Iroanavp. Especially when one of the slots pushing it heavily.

If only I had enough votes I would hard lynch ironavp no regrets.

Time warp...

CCC happened first today and was scummy yesterday.

It happened first in discussion yes. But then people only got adamant after Iroanavp picked up steam. Before it was investigative. Once Ironavp was mentioned the CCC wagon grew and CCC if memory serves hasn't even been online today. Thus people are scrambling to vote anyone besides Iroanavp and therefore makes it a counter lynch. That may or may not have been the intent at the beginning but it follows that pattern now.

[MathBlade]

reading thread...

Neopolitan in a game with masons is a scumclaim.

what's the idea of this? does it still apply in role madness?

Because it is. In a smaller game scum gets neopolitans to find the town PRs.
In a large game like this it is still hugely powerful because scum can then find threats outside of their group.
A Neopolitan is one of the most if not the most important role as scum.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade I get it. I was all ready to lynch Ira with fire. But (no offense) I think he really is just that stupid.

VOTE: Bacde

Think I like my vote better here

I don't. Every day they are alive I will continually ask for their lynch. Scum will have to kill me to shut me up. There is no way Iroanavp is town.

@Valhalla
And yes it is. Choo choo. All come aboard the train of lynch the person who makes up new lies when the old ones don't work.

Now I am going to bed people.

Iroanavp needs rope.

[MathBlade]

reading thread...

Neopolitan in a game with masons is a scumclaim.

what's the idea of this? does it still apply in role madness?

Because it is. In a smaller game scum gets neopolitans to find the town PRs.
In a large game like this it is still hugely powerful because scum can then find threats outside of their group.
A Neopolitan is one of the most if not the most important role as scum.

In a role madness? There's only 1 VT :S

Like just full stop. This is bad.

Can you talk to me about your reads based on behavior from yesterday?

Stop this. Role madness is just simply a lot of roles. Anyone who comes up VT to a Neopolitan can be left until post game. A Neo is HUGE to scum.

Bed for me now.

Will respond to that when not sleepy.

[MathBlade]

Can't sleep. Cookie Bakers is a hypocrite. They said cCC's play regarding VTs was bad.

I point out where they thought ironavp is scum and their logic directly contradicts what they are doing now.

I am not touching CCC with a 1000 foot pole and those of you voting should look hard at Cookie Bakers.

[MathBlade]

IRAON IF YOU ARE VT THEN IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE VT WHY ARE YOU ASKING THIS

This

Now, if you'll excuse me, I will grab my guns and exit stage left.

Seriously....Like if Iroanavp was telling the truth they would have to know VTs exist. The fact that one of the heads points it out and then conveniently pushes CCC today is HORRIBLE.

The stuff they accuse CCC of doing being a hypocrite is what Cookie Bakers is doing.

Stop voting the counter wagon.

[MathBlade]

Can't sleep. Cookie Bakers is a hypocrite. They said cCC's play regarding VTs was bad.

I point out where they thought ironavp is scum and their logic directly contradicts what they are doing now.

I am not touching CCC with a 1000 foot pole and those of you voting should look hard at Cookie Bakers.

Dumb town is a thing.

You should sleep.

You only call me dumb as scum.

[MathBlade]

I love how you call me crazy instead of addressing the hypocrisy I pointed out.

[MathBlade]

Seriously....Like if Iroanavp was telling the truth they would have to know VTs exist. The fact that one of the heads points it out and then conveniently pushes CCC today is HORRIBLE.

The stuff they accuse CCC of doing being a hypocrite is what Cookie Bakers is doing.

Stop voting the counter wagon.

over 1000 posts happened between this post and end of day

Agreed. But nothing in those posts changes the argument provided. In fact it enhances it.

If Iroanavp was a VT cop and town then he would know VTs would exist.

[MathBlade]

Yeah, because I am being called scum-aligned just for being VT... That is the stupid part here.

No, you re being called scum-aligned just for

claiming

VT. However, since others have pointed out that this is pretty much how you act whether Town or Scum, for the moment I'm willing to entertain the hypothesis that you are merely being an idiot.

Besides, there are scummier players around.

CCC is likely town and/or not aligned with ironavp if scum. I like them as town because in their posts they explain why they think what they do.

@Parama -- Already explained one of the posts to me that indicates CCC is town.

Between that and being pushed by Cookie Bakers and more vehemently so when Iroanavp's lynch occurred and their hypocrisy I am not touching the CCC wagon.

[MathBlade]

IRAON IF YOU ARE VT THEN IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE VT WHY ARE YOU ASKING THIS

This

Now, if you'll excuse me, I will grab my guns and exit stage left.

Seriously....Like if Iroanavp was telling the truth they would have to know VTs exist. The fact that one of the heads points it out and then conveniently pushes CCC today is HORRIBLE.

The stuff they accuse CCC of doing being a hypocrite is what Cookie Bakers is doing.

Stop voting the counter wagon.

1) I AM A THEY!

2) Titus argued that iroanavp's claim was scummy at the start of d1. So did Parama. Iroanavp specifically asked if VTs could exist. Iroanavp was rolefishing. As a Neopolitan he would KNOW VTs would exist as he cops for them.

Therefore Parama's and Cookie Baker's points from the start of D1 are equally valid.

Even if there is not a single VT then there is zero reason for him to wonder as a VT or a VT cop. Which makes Titus and Parama doing a hard shift from that thought, especially Cookie Bakers who scum read that spot after very suspicious.

[MathBlade]

i'm pretty sure i'm the only citizen
because this is role madness

You're the third to claim the role.

CCC is town. Look who also pushes the one VT bullshit. Medium. FoS Medium with Cookie Bakers.

Like he points out what is a given fact to push medium and see the response. I do not see how this isn't town. There are genuine pushes throughout.

It is midnight and I have to be up in 6 hours and have to take some melatonin because it is pissing me off we are letting Cookie Bakers push a mislynch.

@Parama obviously didn't find the post I cited the first time. Here is a second. If time tomorrow after work will go through the damn ISO. My gut is screaming CCC is town.

The sheer number of people unwilling to lynch Iroanavp is staggering.

[MathBlade]

....This is fishy. This is what I am saying. I am not sure what the hell happened here but this is very weird from Titus.

+1

why is goofball obvtown? what am i missing?

Ask Cookie Bakers. Then again you will probably get scum misdirection as I have asked for a response on that numerous times :/

Sleeping now.

[MathBlade]

@TownBlock -- For your question about post 1925, my entire point was that VT cop + town did not make sense with the setup open. Therefore Iroanavp scum. Is he was scum it was role fishing pure and simple since I don't see scum being given a Neopolitan without some VTs. It doesn't make sense. Furthermore scum aren't interested in confirming town.

Segway: This is why I believe Varsoon's claim. They used Neopolitan properly.

I need more rope and votes. Vote stays on Iroanavp.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

I just remembered this game has a very precise VC tool

@Elitism: Why lie about being vanilla in a role madness game, though?

Iroanavp already did and Iroanavp has given bullshit countered by himself in the thread. Both these claims coming at the same time and Cookie Bakers calling DGB town for theirs is hella scummy.

Iroanavp, DGB, Cookie Bakers all three need rope bad.

[MathBlade]

reminder

Ask Cookie Bakers. Then again you will probably get scum misdirection as I have asked for a response on that numerous times :/

@MathBlade why do you scumread Cookie Bakers?

I scum read Cookie Bakers for:

1) Blatant hypocrisy.
2) Defense of a known liar and just calling it "newb".
3) Poking at CC start of day and when Iroanavp got pressure escalating the CCC push.
4) I had the DGB/Titus interaction as sketchy in the PT N1 Shaziro can confirm. I don't see how Cookie Bakers is not scum with one of Iroanavp or DGB.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: VA-11 Hall-A

Let's run this slot up to 16 votes

~T

Seems good to me, get some pressure on something that isn't the dumb parama wagon.

VOTE: VA-11 Hall-A

Why is this better than Parama?

ira is in this game

fuck another "aligned" filled game

VOTE: RachMarie

idk about everyone else but I'm voting scum

also

would be willing to PL ira for saying aligned...we have enough players we can afford one PL and it would make me soso happy plus he could be scum

but RachMarie is basically confscum at this point so I'll start there

Why?

VOTE: iraonvp

A vanilla claim that did not cc DGB?

~Titus

Why did you vote him for not ccing, when he went on to claim shortly after anyway (for no reason) and claims to have not seen the initial claim (I believe that.)

-Dunn

This is another reason I suspect Cookie Bakers.

[MathBlade]

Can someone explain to me the difference in reaction to ira and dgb being caught in a lie? I think they both need to go. No single role in role-madness is valuable enough to be worth gambiting over. I also struggle believing ira is this incompetent.

We should do more of what mathblade is saying

Hey, let's lynch people for not taking what I view as the preordained action and ignore CCC.

How about you stop trying to make me look bad and actually respond to what I post?

And yes. I thought I had a CC of RachMarie at this point since Fire didn't say they were in multiple hoods. I have seen scum claim things together then get fucking ignored because of the size of the game. That is why I CC'd RachMarie. I have no regrets about doing so since based on what I had it made sense.

Iroanavp,DGB, and Cookie Bakers all need rope.

[MathBlade]

Math, you put any thought into behavior based reads yet or is it all about discrediting? Discredit basons? Discredit cookie? Discredit dgb? Discredit iraonvp?

I do. However I am focusing on the three scum in front of me. There is only one lynch. No reason to focus anywhere else except confirmed scum. See how doesn't push then poke them later.

[MathBlade]

Hey, Varsoon why did you fake claim? Dgb is town by play.

How did you miss the roses? I had sads.

If you think Varsoon is fake claiming why aren't you voting them?

[MathBlade]

Seriously if Varsoon was faking claiming here at this juncture that would be another scum to me.

I HATE fake guilties and anyone who has played at all with me knows this. Varsoon has. Furthermore the discussions has been Iroanavp and CCC. I do not see him fake claiming in this scenario as scum could easily fly under the radar and vote CCC. But if he was then that would be tantamount to a scum claim.

[MathBlade]

Hey, Varsoon why did you fake claim? Dgb is town by play.

How did you miss the roses? I had sads.

If you think Varsoon is fake claiming why aren't you voting them?

For the same reason iraonvp isn't voted.

Town can lie. We vote scum.

You need lots of rope.

I am going to work.

Iroanavp, DGB, Cookie Bakers.

Lynch the scums while I am at work please. Will check back tonight.

[MathBlade]

Just got home catching up now.

[MathBlade]

Lim's town

I'm gonna say that DGB probably scumclaimed here. Narna actually pointed out a possible slip from this slot that looks pretty damning and might've been overlooked.

Scumpool: Sky, Skelda, Seraphim, DGB, boring, hebichan, Creature and since there's an undisclosed number of scum and possibly at least one SK I ccan't give an exact number.

~T

Add Iroanavp and Cookie Bakers to that list.

[MathBlade]

iraonavp (2): MathBlade, TownBlock

SERIOUSLY?
Oh
my
god
-Dwlee

i do not have the time to respond to everything that's happened since i went to sleep

i will say this:
oh hey, we have two neopolitans and two VTs who lied about being VT
stop doing that! wow! stop lying!

THIS VERY MUCH THIS

This. Agreed.

Why the hell are we talking CCC when a gunsmith also hits town roles?

[MathBlade]

i do not have the time to respond to everything that's happened since i went to sleep

i will say this:
oh hey, we have two neopolitans and two VTs who lied about being VT
stop doing that! wow! stop lying!

THIS VERY MUCH THIS

I think Varsoon is lying but same difference.

CCC isn't town, not just dumb.

Varsoon is a smart player. There is no way in he double hockey sticks they'd fake a guilty with me alive. I would tunnel them so hard that one half of their body would be in the Western Hemisphere and the other half in the Eastern.

[MathBlade]

iraonavp (2): MathBlade, TownBlock

SERIOUSLY?
Oh
my
god
-Dwlee

i do not have the time to respond to everything that's happened since i went to sleep

i will say this:
oh hey, we have two neopolitans and two VTs who lied about being VT
stop doing that! wow! stop lying!

THIS VERY MUCH THIS

This. Agreed.

Why the hell are we talking CCC when a gunsmith also hits town roles?

This is assuming of course Cookie Bakers is a gunsmith which I doubt.

[MathBlade]

@serra, DGB is not a noob.

Neither is Iroanavp. Iroanavp is newer than DGB. But newness is not a free pass to scumness.

Are you going to address where you called Iroanavp scum? *glares*

[MathBlade]

would now be a good time to mention that I'm an actual, for-real VT?

....

Fuck I claimed as little as possible when I thought I was CC'ing.

People stop fucking dropping trousers.

[MathBlade]

what the heck is a motion detector?

I think another site called them Fountain Watch. They basically target a player and can tell if they take a night action.

I think.

This is bad. Use the wiki. It detects if someone came to the player or that player visited someone. It detects motion.

[MathBlade]

What did DGB do?

Allegedly claimed VT when not a VT.

Not only that when countered they claimed 1 shot BP. Like wtf?!?!

That is horribad. The entire point of being BP or something similar is to draw the NK. Make scum wonder what happened. Now that they are out there it narrows things down even more.

I swear any future large theme games I am going to find a way to build a pants store and give away pants for roles.

[MathBlade]

@serra, DGB is not a noob.

Neither is Iroanavp. Iroanavp is newer than DGB. But newness is not a free pass to scumness.

Are you going to address where you called Iroanavp scum? *glares*

actually newness kind of is a free pass to scumness

so is a lot of experience

its only people who sort of have a bit of experience who have no free pass to scumness

you have to be able to actually figure out who is scum and ignore superficial "oddness"

This post is garbage. You push and pull and poke oddness.
When pushed and poked and pulled Iroanavp kept lying along. DGB did something an experienced player should never do they both need rope.

@Narna catching up as fast as I can. When I get there I will respond but yeah if CCC targeted someone and that target claimed VT it likely confirms their role. Based on Cookie Bakers pushing during Iroanavp this makes them likely town. Assuming that the paragraph is true (as it likely is)

[MathBlade]

Wait ccc claimed VT?

Their target did apparently haven't gotten there yet.

[MathBlade]

i do not have the time to respond to everything that's happened since i went to sleep

i will say this:
oh hey, we have two neopolitans and two VTs who lied about being VT
stop doing that! wow! stop lying!

THIS VERY MUCH THIS

I think Varsoon is lying but same difference.

CCC isn't town, not just dumb.

Why would town!varsoon be lying here?

To push through a lynch he thinks is right but cannot get support for otherwise.

I know I've done that sort of thing before, like in Mass Effect Mafia.
But that's not what I'm doing here.

What did DGB do?

Allegedly claimed VT when not a VT.

This needs more words and I could definitely sheep it.

I've been stating CCC is scum.

Egg wants to sheep me when I'm explicitly doubting the guilty on my townread.

I haven't read the game. It's basically only been in day while i'm working...

One or more of Klingon/Peregrine V/Egg are scum. Those votes are ridiculously terribad.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Quote wall

What did DGB do?

Allegedly claimed VT when not a VT.

This needs more words and I could definitely sheep it.

I've been stating CCC is scum.

Egg wants to sheep me when I'm explicitly doubting the guilty on my townread.

I haven't read the game. It's basically only been in day while i'm working...

Let me summarize

ira claimed VT
Shaz claimed today that ira is not a VT
ira claims neopolitan that derped

DGB claimed VT in pregame and is obvious town
Varsoon claims a not VT on DGB as one shot neo

CCC claimed scum.
Cookie Bakers knows this.

Lynch CCC.

~Titus

Bad summary.
DGB also claimed 1 shot BP if memory serves. You don't claim VT with that.
CCC is not claimed scum. You just want people to follow blind.

[MathBlade]

*points at CCC*

That illustration you realize ends with the person pointing out the killer being wrong and Lisa figuring it out right? Well I am Lisa.

[MathBlade]

I see no reason to claim that or even to check me, Shaziro is scum-aligned...

I agree.

Vote MathBlade with me first, though. We can lynch Shaziro tomorrow.

...Are you fuckin' serious? I went and looked at the claimed VTs to see if any of them were lying and, surprise surprise, the one I thought was the grossest -was- lying. How the fuck does that make me scum? Jesus Christ what is wrong with you people?

Also, why the hell did my voting Unvote put me on Kling, what the fuck?

VOTE: Not VotingVOTE:

See, it's like this:

Iron is some very low-hanging fruit.

Yeah, sure, we needs to clear out the goofballs and lurkers and liars, but those lynches have to take a backseat to actual Scum.

Scum like you and Math.

Math's epic tunnel on Iron is kinda uncharacteristic. They don't get this wound up over anti-Town player.

So what would make this game different?

If they truly believed Iron to be Scum - from the opposing team, or, more likely, from their own team. I've seen it happen before, the Scumteam bus a scummy-looking one of their own for Towncred.

There are 10 Scums. There are 4 Neighborhoods (so far.) Your neighborhood had 3 players in it, one died and flipped Town. It's even odds that neither, one or both of you and Math are Scum.

You are in a Neighborhood with me. Again, maybe there are no Scum at all in it. But if there is/are Scum, it's among you and 3 others.

You told us that Math had an offer, she wanted to work together with us in the 'Hood you and I are in.

Math knows better than this.

If there's Scum in there she wouldn't want to be anywhere near it. The two of you should prefer to work with each other - assuming that you both fully trust each other as Town with no confirmation at all.

Only Scum would be happy to move into a new 'Hood full of unconfirmed.

Scumdar goes off the charts.

Ok, so the fact that I caught a liar while checking VT claims means nothing...because you think Math is scum for asking to be able to talk to my other hood, and for pushing on Iraon...who is absolutely scummy as fuck. You're also assuming Iraon -isn't- scum, and is just a lying town, and that I would somehow know that. You're assuming I'm scum to "prove" I'm scum, and you're absolutely wrong as fuck. Jesus Christ, I'm going to need aspirin.

Me too. And no. A hood is not alignment indicative. Let's be honest here I am seriously bleeding town and look forward to the day where I shed my townie blood. However with all the hoods being claimed some have to have scum in them. I wanted to see Shaziro's response. The fact he asked means he is likely town especially with their flub in the PT.

[MathBlade]

you know for someone named MathBlade you're taking a pretty OBTUSE angle HAHAAAAAAAAAAAA

CB is not scum and CCC most likely is, given the facts


- Zach

Your obtuse is my acute depending on location. To me the obtuse thing is assuming someone who has a gun in 42 player game means guilty. A tracker or a watcher has much more credence over a guilty. Shaziro's or Varsoon's guilties are actual guilties. Not this.

[MathBlade]

In post 1837, Cookie Bakers wrote:
DGB, CCC hasn't seen Star Wars. We should lynch him for that.


Seriously?

Seriously?

@CCC is that true?

No. As it happens, I have seen Star Wars. Not that it's relevant.

Awww shoot. I'm going to have to come up with a new way to impersonate Pirate Mollie.

Why would you not want to be yourself as town?

[MathBlade]

you know for someone named MathBlade you're taking a pretty OBTUSE angle HAHAAAAAAAAAAAA

CB is not scum and CCC most likely is, given the facts


- Zach

Your obtuse is my acute depending on location. To me the obtuse thing is assuming someone who has a gun in 42 player game means guilty. A tracker or a watcher has much more credence over a guilty. Shaziro's or Varsoon's guilties are actual guilties. Not this.

No. They caught liars.

I caught scum. What cop attacks their supposed innocent?

Cops don't attack they check.
1) there were no confirmed towns so no innocents.
2) A neo hits a claimed VT always if town.

/me sighs

Still catching up Cookie Butters still needs rope.

[MathBlade]

So the guy who said this today doesn't have a gun?

would now be a good time to mention that I'm an actual, for-real VT?

hmmm, maybe I'm too deep, but this seems more than a little convenient.

It does seem convenient however I believe CCC. This claim looks like a way to dodge iroanavp's wrap.

Besides if CCC were scum then the rest of the scum team would be idiots not to have him claim something that has a gun but doesn't require a check. The claim is so convenient there is no way scum made that up IMO.

[MathBlade]

Varsoon's "guilty"? Varsoon got a not VT on DGB because DGB turned out to be a one-shot BP if I'm not mistaken

WHICH YOU DO CLAIM VT WITH THAT BECAUSE IF YOU CLAIM BP IT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR FUCKING ROLE.

you know for someone named MathBlade you're taking a pretty OBTUSE angle HAHAAAAAAAAAAAA

CB is not scum and CCC most likely is, given the facts


- Zach

Your obtuse is my acute depending on location. To me the obtuse thing is assuming someone who has a gun in 42 player game means guilty. A tracker or a watcher has much more credence over a guilty. Shaziro's or Varsoon's guilties are actual guilties. Not this.

No. They caught liars.

I caught scum. What cop attacks their supposed innocent?

Cops don't attack they check.
1) there were no confirmed towns so no innocents.
2) A neo hits a claimed VT always if town.

/me sighs

Still catching up Cookie Butters still needs rope.

Cookie Bakers was right, you don't talk to your supposed green check like

would now be a good time to mention that I'm an actual, for-real VT?

That make you number four to claim the role. So far, two of the other claimants have been shown to be lying.

You are under no particular pressure to claim, and it is no longer day one. Why have you elected to make this claim

now

, of all times?

This is not how someone talks to their alleged clear.

CCC is obviously lying. Why the fuck would CB fakeclaim gunsmith JUST to get CCC lynched?

Also, read above again. You DON'T talk to your gunsmith check like that if you find a " no gun " result.

Granted, there are anti-town roles that do not have guns (SK, namely) but why would CCC actively push on their green check?

Tell me what I'm missing here, Geometry.



- Zach

Claiming VT also defeats the purpose.
Yes it is. If they are trying to determine redirection or other shenanigans. The "now" especially reads like frustration that if CCC had to claim it would not necessarily be believed.

[MathBlade]

Gunsmith
T-gunsmith.png
Alias: none
Alignment: any
Role type:
Informative
Choice:
Night
The Gunsmith is an information role that can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor. Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors), Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably, Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns.
Gunsmiths are usually, but not necessarily, pro-Town. They are considered somewhat weaker than standard Cops and are usually included in setups where they can get positive results on players who are not Mafia-aligned.
For more information, see Cop and Flavor Cop.
Normal Guidelines

In Normal games on mafiascum.net, a Gunsmith gets guilties on all Mafia (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops, Backups of roles with guns and JoATs that have any of these listed powers. A Werewolf faction should be treated the same as any other Mafia family.

From the wiki

CCC could have claimed a SHIT TON of powerful town roles. Hell they could have claimed cop. This is and was not a guilty.

The fact this guilty claim came after is horse manure.

[MathBlade]

I have to take care of some stuff tonight I hope to be back online but this is shit.

[MathBlade]

I'm blue

da ba dee da ba die

Totally out of nowhere, no relevance to the situation. Actual relevance now that we know there is a blue team.

VOTE: Va-11 Hall-A

Agreed.

One of Serrapaladin and/or Iroanavp are scum no way that is TvT.

[MathBlade]

We do not have a guilty. We have a "does not carry a gun result".

@iraonvp, I suck at this but you can get a lot more by playing it coy. In the future, you can say that "I got a result on paladin" and see who jumps which way and what they feel.

VOTE: serrapaladin

....That would be a very likely innocent. I think the only Mafia role that doesn't have a gun is Mafia doc. We already have three mason claims. Surely adding a fourth very likely confirmed townie is not a bad thing. Need to double check the wiki later.

Why were you so insistent that CCC was a guilty when many town roles carry guns yet here when it is very likely you have an innocent you keep it quiet?

This smells fishy.

[MathBlade]

That post is why we vote Mathblade.

@RachMarie, no guilty on Mathblade so there's nothing more than their weird read shift from me.

I am catching up and posting reads? Why would that be a vote me? Please explain.

I think Valhalla is scum and will post all of them when done. I am guessing you pointed out the "weird" shift and I will see that when I get there:

[MathBlade]

I'm blue

da ba dee da ba die

Totally out of nowhere, no relevance to the situation. Actual relevance now that we know there is a blue team.

VOTE: Va-11 Hall-A

It was a reference to Transcend's site of choice

Context is important

-Dunn

*cough*
*cough*

Allergic to bullshit.

[MathBlade]

I agree

and if you who are their OWN SIBLING agrees


VOTE: Mathblade

My sister has scum read me before for existing. Like this is just terribad.

[MathBlade]

I am taking my own advice. Scum pushing my innocent and getting their hands caught is useful.

Second, I think I would have been more subtle if not batting away guilties on gambiters.

Why did your read change on me between D1 and D2?

Couple of different reasons. Give me a second to catch up because I want to make sure my overnier reads still apply.

[MathBlade]

Per the Normal Rules, 'Neighbor' is a modifier, making any slot not Vanilla.

The Neighbors should out themselves.

This is definitely scum. Needs rope pronto but not more so than Valhalla who scum claimed.

[MathBlade]

K just finished my skim read people.

My thoughts of this thread can be summarized in a few simple sentences.

Pants are awesome for protecting roles.
Cookie Bakers is being derpy but arrogant. This is usually Titus town when this happens.
Hot Chocolate wagon at this point worth analyzing when we know more. The game turning towards lynching a low poster IMHO is interesting.

VOTE: boem_u_dusi

For voting via steak rarity to display confidence but doesn't expand on why and then says they can be uncooked later. I think when boem voted ironavp earlier they were trying to sheep but then realized the wagon wasn't going anywhere so started dropping things from "rare" to innocent child, but there is no explanation of such.

Sibling*

I am trying to figure out why not a single of the claimed masons got shot. Like I mentioned in the PT w/ Shaziro I had scum reads on Cookie butters and Parama and DGB all as scum reads and this happens. Like what? Assuming there are at least two scum teams in a 42 player game how did they communicate? I can understand WiFoM a bit but that seems a bit much with 4 NKs.

FYI motion detector sees if some activity happened on a slot. It doesn't say what.

And good god. It is not a preference it is my gender.

*glares hard*

Look at these two posts in context. Unless something happened in the hood, this is a pretty rapid transition.

This. This is bullshit.

I was fucking offline.
There was Sunday Monday and Tuesday and then lynch and didn't even get a chance to explain that I found two boem crumbs that made me want to drop my vote (and another that makes me want to add it)

Then day starts. I am allowed to fucking read the thread and make opinions.
That flash lynch really ticks me off because I have a full time job and can't be posting during the game at work because it goes too damn fast. Like other games I can do over a 15-20 minute lunch break. This one not a chance in hell.

So yeah I had a read shift. Three days worth of content does that.

Will go into more detail in my big reads post when done catching up.

[MathBlade]

Roleblockers (egg, townblock) should claim their targets.

-Dunn

Why?

Vote Sera

Sheeping Rach's thoughts in the neighborhood to an extent. I can buy that there are associatives to CCC. I don't agree with the lurking excuses case or whatever it was.

This is scum. Anytime you are an outed negative utility role such as Egg's self proclaimed roleblock you should announce your target in your first post so people know what you did and if there is a redirect or a roleblocker or in late game CC if/when what you are saying is impossible/possible.

Any outed role with actions should always out unless damaging for town.

E.g. Cookie Bakers not outing innocent is another example.

[MathBlade]

I forgot. Also dunn was singing a song.

I got an action failure last night when I investigated DGB to see if he had a gun.

...so there's that.

How did you investigate anyone after claiming one shot Neopolitan? One shot gets results means shot is done.

[MathBlade]

Never played on epicmafia. Both of you do realize that the argument "I was just quoting a song" or "I was making a joke about epicmafia despite it not being mentioned, because that's where this guy plays" is exactly what the goal would be if that's a traitor making himself known to his team, right?

Yeah, but you could say that about any context provided. It's highly unlikely though.

I'm sorry, you're trying to tell me that Va-11 Hall-A deciding, completely out of thin air, to quote an old song for no reason whatsoever...is more likely that it actually being significant to the game?

Yup. That's Dunn.

No it isn't. And you know better. I replaced into a game with Dunn and saw none of that. Will look again but pretty damn sure you know this isn't Dunn.

[MathBlade]

@shaz, can you summarize your hoods n1 chat?

Permission to Garcia? Or are you explicitly wanting this from Shaziro?

[MathBlade]

I forgot. Also dunn was singing a song.

I got an action failure last night when I investigated DGB to see if he had a gun.

...so there's that.

How did you investigate anyone after claiming one shot Neopolitan? One shot gets results means shot is done.

Look at his text again. He was gunsmithing DGB. He's a joat.

That isn't what he claimed though. He claimed one shot Neo. A Joat is not a one shot neo it is a part of Joat.

[MathBlade]

So, if known lurkers are being null-read for lurking (I'm assuming), that's MathBlade, Skybird, Bacde, Seraphim, AlpacaAlpaca.
Egg is on V/LA and Yume is in amalgam.
... I'm okay with throwing creature into the suspicious lurker list. He's posted 9 one-liners. Two were naked votes (three if the words "choo choo" aren't enough to make it not-naked). Though, I'd rather they just contribute more[substance] than have to vote them for lurking.
p-edit: 10 posts.

And Shiro?

I agree with Mathblade and Creature

In my experience, Skkybird, Bacde, Seraphim and Alpaca tend to post in spurts.

Yup and Shiro, I am part of the Cookie Bakers

~Shiro

I specifically reference this post in the overnight QT. Shiro and you have played with me numerous times. The last thing I am is a lurker. That is blatantly false. If anything I have post addiction problems. The fact that you didn't correct your hydra or do anything to correct the incorrect perceptions is rather telling.

Furthermore I discussed that Cookie Bakers and Dripping Goofball were likely scum together based on the weird as fuck obvTown shit. Then Shaziro brought up the Dunn hydra and them hammering a town read. At first I read it as frustration towards not being listened to. However that combined with the blue crumb (more on that in a bit) and VCA I really suspect Valhalla.

[MathBlade]

Posted more thoughts. Incorrectly hypothesized Parama scum. Pressured Shaziro and Fire for more thoughts.

Shaziro was pretty mum except for the Dunn hydra but promised to follow up and did on day start. Fire posted being a lurk sac saying they hadn't followed the game much. Then when RachMarie said they were in a hood with Fire it caused me to flip my shit so to speak because Fire never mentioned or did anything useful except a random bullshit posting in the hood over me doing my usual thing.

[MathBlade]

That is the end of the summary for N1. Now since I am caught up time for my read wall.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Table of what I think has everything so far

	Player Name	Important Info	Role	Alive or Dead
1	Creature
2	TownBlock (Dwlee99 / Murdercat / McMenno)
3	DrippingGoofball		Claimed VT, Claimed One Shot BP after Neo
4	PeregrineV
5	Blackstar		Friendly Neighbor	Dead
6	VA-11 Hall-A (Dunnstral / Zachstralkita)
7	serrapaladin		Claimed VT, iroanavp currently claiming serrapaladin is lying
8	Skybird
9	hebichan
10	Narna
11	Varsoon		Claimed one shot Neo, somehow checks twice
12	Egg		RBs Valhalla << Sketchiness here for other reasons
13	Blanche (gigabyteTroubadour / kraska77)		Jailkeeper/Neighbor	Dead
14	Aeronaut *
15	Elitism (Transcend / MariaR / gerryoat)
16	boring
17	amalgam (davesaz / Yume / randomidget)		Claimed Mason
18	RachMarie		Claimed Mason
19	Fire Assassin		Ascetic Citizen/Neighbor	Dead
20	Seraphim
21	Bacde		JOAT[Watcher/Follower/Neapolitan/Commuter/Doctor/Roleblocker]	Dead
22	Drixx
23	CCC		2 shot voyeur	Dead
24	iraonavp		Claimed VT, Claimed Neopolitan when pressured
25	Comparing Realities Accountant		JOAT[Cop/Watcher/Doctor/Motion Detector/Neapolitan/Jailkeeper]	Dead
26	Elyse
27	Cookie Bakers (Titus / Shiro)		Claimed Gunsmith
28	KlingonCelt		Claimed Mason
29	Map Wolf BBMolla
30	Lapsa
31	Foxbird		Voyeur/Neighbor	Dead
32	shos		Motion Detector/Neighbor	Dead
33	Boem_u_dusi		Claims Town PR, crumbs lover, crumbs cop, claims watcher, gets results cooberated by Egg << Sketchiness here
34	Almost50
35	Skelda
36	Hot Chocolate		One Shot Bulletproof	Dead
37	long_island_medium
38	Bellaphant *
39	Thor665 AlpacaAlpaca
40	Shaziro
41	Parama		Bodyguard/Neighbor	Dead
42	Mathblade		"Wait so Derek Jeter is famous and he didn't take steroids, or beat or murder his girlfriend or wife? I'm not sure I understand. " -- Warren Holstein

Town dead: 9 Blue Mafia dead: 1 Other Mafia dead: 0 Other dead: 0Players alive: 32

Spoiler: Them scums be talking yo

First, I am nigh on positive the scum teams are crumbing to each other.

Let's assume the scum teams are evenly distributed with X players. Let's assume Y scum teams and no SK for simplicity's sake in explaining the calculations.

This means 41- XY = Town players. (removing hot chocolate who was lynched and was town)

For the first night a given scum team won't shoot themselves which means they have a pool of 41-X -X(Y-1) players to shoot that are town. Conversely X(Y-1) players that can be shot that are scum.

So the probability that one team shoots scum is 41-(X(Y-1)) / remaining players available to shoot which is 41-X.
This must be multiplied out to get the probability of every scum team not hitting scum.

So this can be seen in practical numbers let's take Wake's original hypothesis of 32/5/5 and two vigs. (It may or may not be right but it removes it from algebra for people to see numbers)

One scum team then has the possibility of shooting town (36-5*1/41-5) = 31/36 of hitting town which is ~86%.
Now let's take that and multiply that by 86% to account for the probability of both scum teams doing it which is 74%.

Now let's take the vigs and calculate that in. Those have odds of 41-XY of hitting town. (for this practical scenario this is 31/41) which is approximately 75%.
The odds of both vigs hitting town is approximately 57%.

Now the odds of all four of those things are 42%. One night it's not the most likely thing but it is reasonably possible.

Now let's take a look at what happens when the number of alive town reduced. (Again will use practical numbers here, this may or may not be the setup. )
There were 6 deaths so far in the game which makes 36 players at the start of N2.
The team with 5 scum left have 27/31 chance of hitting town. ~87% chance of hitting town.
The team with 4 scum left have a 27/32 chance of hitting town. ~84% chance of hitting town.
Multiplied together this is approximately 73% chance of both scum teams hitting town.
The two vigs have a chance of 27/36 chance of hitting town. This is a 56% chance of hitting town.

Multiplying 73% and 56% is approximately a 40% chance of hitting scum. Again, isolated isn't all that unlikely.

However TOGETHER both nights is an approximately 17% chance of this happening.
Therefore the most likely scenario here is that scum are likely cross communicating.
The next question becomes HOW:

Spoiler: Scum claims and communication

This begs the question as to how scum would do this and not get caught. Obviously not all the scum would be doing it, else the scum teams would just lose to the other. (Assuming a two scum team scenario.) (I'm assuming this because if not a two town scenario the probabilities get ridiculously low that scum aren't cross communicating.)

I think they are doing this through two different ways:
Through song and through the use of the word "blue". Titus IMHO has been coordinating and spearheading this effort by posting random songs and nonsense and trying to hide which ones are genuine and which ones aren't. Post 2692 seems to collaborate this rather well.

Let's look at the people who have posted songs/lyrics/poems: (That I could find..If I missed some please point them out)
1) Lapsa
2) Boem_u_dusi (more on this later)
One crumbs lovers, another crumbs cop, yet boem claims watcher and uses it twice. This discounts JOAT. Boem strikes me as a man of purpose.
3) Cookie Bakers (so many times it's ridiculous)
4) Valhalla - More into why it's a scumclaim in a moment
5) Elitism -- More on this in a moment.

Now let's look at the people who have posted the word blue in reference to themselves or an action/read:
1) Valhalla --- I'm blue dabu dee da bu die is an Eiffel65 reference It's also very obscure. Most of the players are younger players. This likely means this was a message targeted specifically to an older player such as Titus. As noted in the game I replaced into they did no such crumb.
2) Boem_u_dusi -- I originally only caught the cop lyrics which made me town read them. Then they claimed watcher and I went what the fuck in my head and then they got accurate results on Egg roleblocking Valhalla. Why didn't Boem push this? Answer: They are likely aligned with Valhalla and CCC. This is further indicated by the blue postings. This means, Egg is likely scum on the other team.
3) Elitism -- Specifically this post (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8220434)
Now that we know one of the teams are the blue team this means that this post by Elitism is all kinds of wackiness.
Roses are red -- Meaning one scum team is likely RED.
Violets are blue -- Revealed scum team.
This guy is scum --- Likely crumb.

This makes Elitism, Valhalla, CCC, and Boem, Skelda likely all the blue team.
Based on the other song lyrics this makes lapsa, CookieBakers, and any other song posters likely scum for the red team. (DGB also gets added to this list too)

Spoiler: VCA

Now let's take a look at the VCA.
1) Titus's post was NOT a guilty. Continuing to think of it as such is inaccurate. I did defend CCC and I have no regrets about how I played that out. I also did not back off CB at all. I was trying to figure out whether they were town or scum because some of the weird ass songs and sounds make no sense.

In night 2 I started ripping apart VCs and seeing who was on both Hot Chocolate and CCC and who was only on one and who was only on another.
What was really interesting is Skelda's vote pattern. They started on CCC then switched to DGB then switched back to CCC. This along with Titus's weird defense of DGB and that weird iroanavp fight makes me strongly suspect those two are scum together. Titus would be one to suggest a weird gambit for iroanavp and Dripping Goofball to claim VT but I don't see her trying to run this many gambits while being in a hydra. Therefore one of DGB or iroanavp hydra likely scum. Based on iroanavp learning and their posts today I'd lean Titus/DGB especially since they never explained those posts. I also got frustrated at Titus because a gunsmith exists to confirm town not "guilties".

I am further guessing since Titus completely bastardized the play of gunsmith AND refuses to out what is a likely innocent and force scum to shoot in a group of townies that I am missing a cross communication that identified CCC as scum and that Titus wanted to lynch one of he scums to make sure scum bend to the other team's will.

Spoiler: Too long didn't read who do I think is scum

This makes Elitism, Valhalla, CCC, and Boem, Skelda likely all the blue team.
Based on the other song lyrics this makes lapsa, CookieBakers, Egg, DGB likely scum for the red team.Outside chance of iroanavp but I doubt it. Varsoon is either dumb town for lying after we said not to or is a JoaT and town aligned. Either way he is NOT a one shot neo and needs further examination as well. Egg would also be in this pairing for their weird as fuck alignments stuff. That fifth spot I'm still iffy on.

VOTE: VA-11 Hall-A

[MathBlade]

so join the math wagon

seriously math is scumz they are pinging my scumdar something fierce

So could you explain like I am 5 why in the he double hockey stick you talked about being blue Vall?

I believe that was dunn who said that IIRC?

Look at my wall for the blue stuff Rach -- It is in my scum claims and communication section more than one person has mentioned blue.

[MathBlade]

Math, drop the scumteams crumbing to each other. It's neigh on dumb. Like totally.

Can you explain the "weirdness" with Boem? The night actions aren't really making sense to us.

You're scumreading like all my townreads. Like there's not a single name on that list I want to lynch today Math.

You also claimed the masons were scum. Like everyone who has posted today in your TDL is just bad.

@DGB scum joats are a thing

1) I am reading you as scum.
2) It is very unlikely scum aren't crumbing/talking to each other at this point. It just doesn't add up. You're telling me to drop something when almost every little bit says it does.
And oh wait I'm supposed to trust a scum read who has a likely innocent they won't out that scum aren't crumbing to each other...

How about hell to the goddamn no.

The weirdness with boem is the first crumbed lover, then crumbed cop, then claimed watcher, had an accurate result, outed Egg as roleblocker, didn't push, then claimed watcher again
Watcher N2 results: Drixx, Comparing Realities, and Lapsa have targeted Cookie Bakers. << here
Then in prior beginning of D1 said their role was shit.

Watcher is not shit.

At that point in time I thought the masons claim was shit based on how Fire posted in our PT. However, after pushing I backed the hell off because it was likely genuine.

@Creature -- Thanks will add that.
TownBlock needs to post their results too.

[MathBlade]

	Player Name	Important Info	Role	Alive or Dead
1	Creature
2	TownBlock (Dwlee99 / Murdercat / McMenno)
3	DrippingGoofball		Claimed VT, Claimed One Shot BP after Neo
4	PeregrineV
5	Blackstar		Friendly Neighbor	Dead
6	VA-11 Hall-A (Dunnstral / Zachstralkita)
7	serrapaladin		Claimed VT, iroanavp currently claiming serrapaladin is lying
8	Skybird
9	hebichan
10	Narna
11	Varsoon		Claimed one shot Neo, somehow checks twice
12	Egg		RBs Valhalla << Sketchiness here for other reasons
13	Blanche (gigabyteTroubadour / kraska77)		Jailkeeper/Neighbor	Dead
14	Aeronaut *
15	Elitism (Transcend / MariaR / gerryoat)
16	boring
17	amalgam (davesaz / Yume / randomidget)		Claimed Mason
18	RachMarie		Claimed Mason
19	Fire Assassin		Ascetic Citizen/Neighbor	Dead
20	Seraphim
21	Bacde		JOAT[Watcher/Follower/Neapolitan/Commuter/Doctor/Roleblocker]	Dead
22	Drixx
23	CCC		2 shot voyeur	Dead
24	iraonavp		Claimed VT, Claimed Neopolitan when pressured
25	Comparing Realities Accountant		JOAT[Cop/Watcher/Doctor/Motion Detector/Neapolitan/Jailkeeper]	Dead
26	Elyse
27	Cookie Bakers (Titus / Shiro)		Claimed Gunsmith
28	KlingonCelt		Claimed Mason
29	Map Wolf BBMolla
30	Lapsa
31	Foxbird		Voyeur/Neighbor	Dead
32	shos		Motion Detector/Neighbor	Dead
33	Boem_u_dusi		Claims Town PR, crumbs lover, crumbs cop, claims watcher, gets results cooberated by Egg << Sketchiness here
34	Almost50
35	Skelda
36	Hot Chocolate		One Shot Bulletproof	Dead
37	long_island_medium
38	Bellaphant *
39	Thor665 AlpacaAlpaca
40	Shaziro
41	Parama		Bodyguard/Neighbor	Dead
42	Mathblade		"Wait so Derek Jeter is famous and he didn't take steroids, or beat or murder his girlfriend or wife? I'm not sure I understand. " -- Warren Holstein

Town dead: 9 Blue Mafia dead: 1 Other Mafia dead: 0 Other dead: 0Players alive: 32

Updated table.

Would much rather lynch Valhalla who said to lynch them based on their play and then I mention an argument based on their play (e.g. not pushing Egg (or townblock but really Egg is scummier of the two) IMHO it would be because it'd reflect on him and IMHO Valhalla wants to lynch town.

Based on how little you are pushing me on, changing my reads after a night of reflection and being AFK during the end of the day, you are either scum or scum are hopping on or both. I have no problem dying to prove it, in fact it is more ideal if a townie dies for it to be me.

Between that and not outing your likely gunsmith innocent
Pushing me for having a life
Calling your gunsmith a guilty when it damn sure isn't a guilty and could have lynched a town PR role.
The obv towning of DGB early in the game for no reason I can see.
Calling iroanavp scum and then when your initial thought is validated calling him town.
As scum you like to townbeard a highly scumread player. I think you picked iroanavp.

[MathBlade]

Shit it didn't save hang on. Just a sec

[MathBlade]

	Player Name	Important Info	Role	Alive or Dead
1	Creature
2	TownBlock (Dwlee99 / Murdercat / McMenno)		Claimed roleblocked valhalla
3	DrippingGoofball		Claimed VT, Claimed One Shot BP after Neo
4	PeregrineV
5	Blackstar		Friendly Neighbor	Dead
6	VA-11 Hall-A (Dunnstral / Zachstralkita)
7	serrapaladin		Claimed VT, iroanavp currently claiming serrapaladin is lying
8	Skybird
9	hebichan
10	Narna
11	Varsoon		Claimed one shot Neo, somehow checks twice
12	Egg		RBs Valhalla << Sketchiness here for other reasons
13	Blanche (gigabyteTroubadour / kraska77)		Jailkeeper/Neighbor	Dead
14	Aeronaut *
15	Elitism (Transcend / MariaR / gerryoat)
16	boring
17	amalgam (davesaz / Yume / randomidget)		Claimed Mason
18	RachMarie		Claimed Mason
19	Fire Assassin		Ascetic Citizen/Neighbor	Dead
20	Seraphim
21	Bacde		JOAT[Watcher/Follower/Neapolitan/Commuter/Doctor/Roleblocker]	Dead
22	Drixx
23	CCC		2 shot voyeur	Dead
24	iraonavp		Claimed VT, Claimed Neopolitan when pressured
25	Comparing Realities Accountant		JOAT[Cop/Watcher/Doctor/Motion Detector/Neapolitan/Jailkeeper]	Dead
26	Elyse
27	Cookie Bakers (Titus / Shiro)		Claimed Gunsmith
28	KlingonCelt		Claimed Mason
29	Map Wolf BBMolla
30	Lapsa
31	Foxbird		Voyeur/Neighbor	Dead
32	shos		Motion Detector/Neighbor	Dead
33	Boem_u_dusi		Claims Town PR, crumbs lover, crumbs cop, claims watcher, gets results cooberated by Egg << Sketchiness here
34	Almost50
35	Skelda
36	Hot Chocolate		One Shot Bulletproof	Dead
37	long_island_medium
38	Bellaphant *
39	Thor665 AlpacaAlpaca
40	Shaziro
41	Parama		Bodyguard/Neighbor	Dead
42	Mathblade		"Wait so Derek Jeter is famous and he didn't take steroids, or beat or murder his girlfriend or wife? I'm not sure I understand. " -- Warren Holstein

Town dead: 9 Blue Mafia dead: 1 Other Mafia dead: 0 Other dead: 0Players alive: 32

[MathBlade]

Based on the other song lyrics this makes lapsa, CookieBakers, and any other song posters likely scum for the red team. (DGB also gets added to this list too)

In other news Lapsa claims troll.

[MathBlade]

@Math, yo! Spoiler that shit.

Parama and I are neighbors. My innocent is in the hood and crumbed.



Talk to me more about the night action resolutions.

Right now, Boem is suggesting Parama didn't target us, when he likely did. Scum left both of us entirely alone despite balance dictating ninja and scum blockers. Like the last thing that should happen is me having a result at all...

Ninja -- I don't see this. Explain please.

The you getting a result on I agree. Unless you had already crummed your scumminess. Now if you are town that is a ton of shit and you shouldn't have a result.

There is the option of redirectors existing. Boem could be redirected. You are not a likely candidate for redirection as you would see yourself as having a gun and the proper play with an investigative redirect is to point them back at themselves. However, anytime scum have a redirector that is an investigative the better play is to always redirect themselves onto themselves so that way they share bad information. However, failing that then you RB, and failing that you kill. Especially since those role blocks outed likely scum in Egg.

However no one is really pushing Egg that has any direct impact to the result.

[MathBlade]

and sure enough the masons are not marked in green '


Titus talk to me why the he double hockey stick would town math keep trying to scum read masons

You'll notice I'm not scum reading you. I'm just not conf!town reading you. I've nailed what I think is the blue team and the majority of the red and the masons don't seem to fit. Therefore they are "Very Likely Town". However scum can claim masons and fucking coast to lylo in a closed setup. Hell that almost happened with town in 1800 because they didn't claim well enough and no one actually saw and understood it. I fucking HATE site meta. I toy with it as scum on a regular basis.

In a scum game of mine I specifically had Karnos claim Neopolitan and tell the truth to the town in order for Karnos to get the town cred. Meanwhile he kept doing scummy as fuck things but people went "Meh we won't pay attention to Karnos". Their scummy day one shit that got him to Lylo on D1 yeah we're just going to ignore that.

A role is not what saves you from being scum. Being TOWN is what saves you from being scum.

@Titus -- Okay derp. I've played so many games with a redirector I thought it was normal. *sigh*

[MathBlade]

I wouldn't say impossible, but very unlikely. If there's two people that can fake that, it's myself and Math. It's worth giving Math a day to adjust to the thread and talk about the reads that are actually plausible and direct them that way.

~Titus

table seems accurate. very handy - i still can't remember who were masons

...It's in the table. *sigh*

[MathBlade]

just keep in mind math you could be wrong

town is often wrong

ESPECIALLY this early in a game

I do keep that in mind. Hence why they are reads. And my scumreads are my willing to lynch pile. Outside of that not willing to lynch. It is an awesome concept.

@Valhalla -- why still no questions to townblock or egg?

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade

The most logical explanation is that scum sent a ninja at me (thus not detected by Boem). Yet, then Boem would likely detect Parama.
The other explaination would be that Parama explicitly lied in our hood about protecting us, which makes about zero sense... and was shot directly.

Or that Boem is scum and there is a watcher on their team.
It is possible Parama thought you were scum and lied. However more likely is he protected you and died.
Or Boem is scum and left off the NK person. Or left off Parama to avoid the connection.
Or just RNG'd names to give bad info.

Lots of things.
If you are town this is fishy.

[MathBlade]

@ Titus

isnt there another blocker besides Egg dude?

Could they have blocked you?

We would have gotten a no result.
We specifically have "Your target does not carry a gun."
We were not blocked.

This also means Townblock and Egg likely not both scum. Else one team surely would have blocked you. Therefore either Egg is scum with you like a theory I proposed and Townblock probably town. OR Egg is scum and Townblock town based on no RB. Or Townblock is scum and Egg is town Or Both are town.
(That's in order of likelihood btw)

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade

The most logical explanation is that scum sent a ninja at me (thus not detected by Boem). Yet, then Boem would likely detect Parama.
The other explaination would be that Parama explicitly lied in our hood about protecting us, which makes about zero sense... and was shot directly.

Or that Boem is scum and there is a watcher on their team.
It is possible Parama thought you were scum and lied. However more likely is he protected you and died.
Or Boem is scum and left off the NK person. Or left off Parama to avoid the connection.
Or just RNG'd names to give bad info.

Lots of things.
If you are town this is fishy.

I keep going back to that result of Boem being scum, but if that's the case, why would he outright claim a result that is suspicious? That would lead us to him?
Parama definitely didn't think I was scum lmao.

Forgetting this is multiball. Boem could be claiming an accurate result but be on the opposite team from the one that likely attempted to kill you. Or just Parama was shot directly for this exact scenario. It's like how I asked earlier and still wonder: Why haven't the masons been shot?

[MathBlade]

@Valhalla -- why still no questions to townblock or egg?

Why have you still not presented a logical argument for me scum?

I saw the one you did, but keyword: logic

Already did in my read wall which you managed to read at super human speeds.

Now my question to you is: You were supposedly roleblocked/caused action to fail/whatever by two people. Why are you not even remotely interested in investigating those people?

[MathBlade]

@Wake -- Nice mafiascum fail of spoilering the image. Please fix

[MathBlade]

Look at the night kills Egg

scum is killing off based on neighborhood outs.

Scum on both teams plus the sk plus the town vig have all hit town both nights

We need more scum flips especially a red one

If this is true, my other neighbor is lurker bait and vig bait. No qualms if you shoot there. I got my result crumbed just in case.

You should be able to find it even if blindfolded it's that easy to find.

Agree with RachMarie here we definitely need a red (assuming that is the other color and my hypothesis is correct)

I am illiterate then will try again tonight

[MathBlade]

@Valhalla - Vote on and trying to figure out are two different things.
If your vote is on someone you should be interacting with them and asking them questions.

[MathBlade]

There is a hood with Shaziro and KlignonCelt and Z people in it. Shaziro confirmed it to me in PT and KlingonCelt in game.

This hood I strongly suspect has scum in it. I do not know who is in it, but based on PT postings I suspect it does or that Shaziro is scum and reads fucked to high heaven but that is an extreme case. Namely it'd be one of the "Z" people of whom I do not know their identities.

[MathBlade]

egg someone in our hood is most likely scum

The reason I say this is because if this hood is the same as that hood I'd agree.

[MathBlade]

Obviously don't say if it's the same hood.

[MathBlade]

@CB - That seems dumb unless they shoot DGB. Because the wiki says that it lasts only a night.

I gotta go D&D later tonight.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: BBmolla

Love me love me
Say that you love me
Fool me fool me
Go on and fool me
Love me love me
Pretend that you love me
Leave me leave me
Just say that you need me
Love me love me
Say that you love me
Leave me leave me
Just say that you need me

I'm still in RVS

this


I uh...want to start reading but...

.every breath I take

gets one more page in the thread..... >_>

I'll be watching you
Every breath you take
and every move you make

Couldn't resist throwing a pop reference.

First is obvious
Second is lyrics from The Police - Every Breath You Take - YouTube
Police is another word for cop.

[MathBlade]

Actually it makes me suspect whoever else is in your hood is scum the more I think about it (assuming you are town).

What could have happened is someone roleblocks Parama. Then they try to kill you. But a doc saves your life. Probably Comparing Realities or the other person doc.

[MathBlade]

Hopping in the shower

Valhalla you're not pushing.

[MathBlade]

Valhalla you're not pushing.

We're waiting for townblock.

You don't have to wait for town block to sort egg or make an egg case or talk about egg.

[MathBlade]

Right now you are just reaction posting and not trying to be convincing.

[MathBlade]

I think Titus's hood mate is scum.
Parama probably got vigged or scum killed based on me noting sketchiness in the PT. if Parama was scum killed it was probably by the red team.

[MathBlade]

This means the hood mate would likely be a part of the blue team.

*lets that sit*

[MathBlade]

Sleepy as fuck will check as I can time permitting tomorrow.

@lapsa any particular reason for the llama post?

[MathBlade]

Long day car issues will be on late tonight if at all sorry.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Shaziro

They messed up their role twice in my PT.

[MathBlade]

Claimed Iroanavp was a Neopolitan as a watcher.
Then claimed follower and at first that made sense as some follower variants give exact action.
But then remembered to look at rules where this was explicitly normal.

Normal only gives the type.

Ergo once is a mistake twice is liar for the fire. Work now gtg.

[MathBlade]

Type: Investigative, protective,killing etc.

[MathBlade]

Because I want to go and refer back to my pm any time I'm going to say my role instead of just...y'know...folks accepting that I might say the name wrong here and there? The case on math is dumb, math is town as hell to me especially in our hood. Medium I could see lynching. I'm content to stay on Townblock at the moment though.

Here is the problem. If you were actually a follower when I used the wiki the first time you should have checked the wiki for your role. You didn't. You had almost a week to correct this second "mistake". You should be screaming that this is bastard if you are town.

The wiki explicitly says you receive the type of investigation. A Neopolitan is investigative. You should have got Iroanavp performed an investigative action as your feedback.

Secondly you didn't claim odd night when I first asked how you knew. You also didn't discuss who you should investigate. When I asked you results then you claimed it. If you were obvTown reading me why hold back?

Thirdly this matches a rolecop which is likely with Shaziro.

[MathBlade]

If you are town yes.

A follower gets if someone performs a <type> action.

Hence why I don't believe you. It is too sketch.

Back to work for me.

[MathBlade]

The Follower is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn what form of action they took that Night (investigation, protection, killing, etc), but not who they targeted.

Neopolitan is NOT a form.

Definition of Normal is all roles follow the wiki.
If this does not follow the wiki it is not normal.

Ergo if Shaziro is town follower and telling the truth the game is bastard.

[MathBlade]

Oh I see your point now. Dudes just let me be spicy and scum lean

Zach

your slot in peace.

Valhalla - I hate hydras backpedaling on each other. They are generating a lot of discussion for town though, quality bartending.

How are you gonna scumlean Zach, anyway? I'm probably the obvtowniest person here.

Bullshit. You are claimed scum.

[MathBlade]

Mod promises Normal roles - doesn't promise roles will be handled via guidelines for a Normal game (and, I can't find an official rule about running per wiki page for Normals in any case)

That is the definition of normal roles.

Otherwise calling rolecop follower technically works.

This is either Shaziro scum or bastard. No other options.

[MathBlade]

Shaziro in my eyes you are confirmed scum.
In thread you said it is bastard or not. If you were town it would bastard.

If this is bastard and you are town then I will talk a long while with Wake post game.

[MathBlade]

As far as I am concerned this was not handled correctly. That is all I will say as I would drag down enjoyment from others.

I think based on the first post and mod posts here Shaziro is scum. If they aren't then more discussions post game.

My main issue is that the first post is consistently referred to as normal and then say it was not reviewed for normalcy just is gahhhhhsnsiebdjdhdjrhrjrbeiwjdisbsj.

[MathBlade]

I lift 400 pounds of scum reads a night. Anyone can verify. I do this all on my own.

And I eat a bag of nachos for fun afterward.

[MathBlade]

However to do that I require sleep.

Good night.

[MathBlade]

I'm not sure the mod saying the game wasn't checked for normalcy should be viewed as vindicating Shaziro.

Sure, though it assuredly doesn't damn him and shows the mod trying to clarify that the setup is *not* what Math is claiming it to be.
The way i see it - Shaziro is either exactly what he claims, in which case he's too potent to be worth killing.
Or he's scum rolecop who is obligated to out info - in which case he will either be caught in a lie, or the other scum team will not want him reporting and will want him dead.

As far as I am concerned this was not handled correctly. That is all I will say as I would drag down enjoyment from others.

I think based on the first post and mod posts here Shaziro is scum. If they aren't then more discussions post game.

My main issue is that the first post is consistently referred to as normal and then say it was not reviewed for normalcy just is gahhhhhsnsiebdjdhdjrhrjrbeiwjdisbsj.

Take that one step further and the easiest Ockham's explanation is that the first post is not claiming what you say it's claiming (which it clearly isn't - there is a clear difference between Normal Roles, and Reviewed for Normalacy)

...Vote is still on Shaziro.

They claim normal roles. Normal roles act based on the wiki. The follower rolecop is a variant and explicitly not normal.
They messed up role twice and likely a third time when pressured.

Rinse wash repeat if town mod fucked up. I can't see them being town though.

My vote stays on Shaziro.

TownBlock is a townread. Egg is likely scum of the two blockers.

[MathBlade]

I am having a shitty day at work. Saw some requests for updates but I am not able to update it right now. I noticed more votes on TownBlock.

I think they are town because of Egg being more likely scum. Look at my ISO for more details.

The short version of Shaziro is of Shaziro is town they never should have gotten Neopolitan role after the mod confirmed roles worked like Normals ergo the wiki. I asked the mod how followers work. Same thing. (This is a paraphrase) If Shaziro is town mods fucked up.

If Shaziro is scum then mod not referring to prior post and just going "not answering specific questions " is a fuck up. Either roles are normal or they aren't.

I am just pissed because If Shaziro is town then they have messed up their role and not been forthright with a town read.

So either way this is fucked because if Shaziro is town which I doubt because I believe I have a guilty then I have done something shitty based upon that.

I can understand being pissed and I also see why you think the way you do just off the thread. Short of copy paste which is bannable I can't explain any further as to why I think this is a guilty. I cannot in good conscience vote someone else based on a perceived slip when I don't agree with the slip and someone else is more likely scum.

Won't be on til really late tonight.

[MathBlade]

Pedit will read hebichan stuff tonight.

[MathBlade]

Damn it I am still at work!

Someone please vig Valhalla they are clearly scum. I hope I can get home to update the charts for everyone.

[MathBlade]

And I'm going to suggest if I am right you owe me a million kudos post game. At work for at least another 30 minutes to hour before I can drive home.

[MathBlade]

Oh and vig Shaziro too please.

Think Valhalla did but if they didn't please give me two hours to get home and look at requests for charts before I likely die.

[MathBlade]

Okay just got home. Need to setup my laptop. Barring any other major issues setup in 15 minutes.

[MathBlade]

Typing it up now...Wish me luck that I type fast.

Thank God I have a "billion" formulas in excel that auto do things for me.

[MathBlade]

The billion is sarcastic. Obviously.

[MathBlade]

@Math, yo! Spoiler that shit.

Parama and I are neighbors. My innocent is in the hood and crumbed.



Talk to me more about the night action resolutions.

Right now, Boem is suggesting Parama didn't target us, when he likely did. Scum left both of us entirely alone despite balance dictating ninja and scum blockers. Like the last thing that should happen is me having a result at all...

Looking over my notes why did you crumb your innocent when you have said you don't trust the person in your hood? Is there another person in there you do trust?

[MathBlade]

	Player Name	Important Info	Role	Alive or Dead
1	Creature
2	TownBlock (Dwlee99 / Murdercat / McMenno)		Claimed roleblocked valhalla
3	DrippingGoofball		Claimed VT, Claimed One Shot BP after Neo
4	PeregrineV
5	Blackstar		Friendly Neighbor	Dead
6	VA-11 Hall-A (Dunnstral / Zachstralkita)
7	serrapaladin	Neighbors with Drixx/Serrapaladin/Almost50	Claimed VT, not a VT but claims to be a Citizen/Neighbor
8	Skybird
9	hebichan	Claimed many different things end of day two. Some kind of neighbor with Accountant? Some roles. See end of D3.
10	Narna
11	Varsoon		Claimed one shot Neo, somehow checks twice
12	Egg	RBs Valhalla, Elyse	RBs Valhalla << Sketchiness here for other reasons
13	Blanche (gigabyteTroubadour / kraska77)		Jailkeeper/Neighbor	Dead
14	Aeronaut *
15	Elitism (Transcend / MariaR / gerryoat)
16	boring
17	amalgam (davesaz / Yume / randomidget)		Claimed Mason
18	RachMarie		Claimed Mason
19	Fire Assassin		Ascetic Citizen/Neighbor	Dead
20	Seraphim
21	Bacde		JOAT[Watcher/Follower/Neapolitan/Commuter/Doctor/Roleblocker]	Dead
22	Drixx	This is a very strong town read	Claimed Doctor/neighbor with Serrapaladin/Almost50
23	CCC		2 shot voyeur	Dead
24	iraonavp		Claimed VT, Claimed Neopolitan when pressured
25	Comparing Realities Accountant		JOAT[Cop/Watcher/Doctor/Motion Detector/Neapolitan/Jailkeeper]	Dead
26	Elyse
27	Cookie Bakers (Titus / Shiro)	In a hood with Parama and player X. Suspects player X of being scum.	Claimed Gunsmith
28	KlingonCelt		Claimed Mason
29	Map Wolf BBMolla
30	Lapsa
31	Foxbird		Voyeur/Neighbor	Dead
32	shos		Motion Detector/Neighbor	Dead
33	Boem_u_dusi		Claims Town PR, crumbs lover, crumbs cop, claims watcher, gets results cooberated by Egg << Sketchiness here
34	Almost50
35	Skelda
36	Hot Chocolate		One Shot Bulletproof	Dead
37	long_island_medium
38	Bellaphant *
39	Thor665 AlpacaAlpaca
40	Shaziro		Claimed watcher, then follower with bad result, then odd night follower, this is scum
41	Parama	Titus said they were in a hood with Parama. No one CC'd but no one confirmed	Bodyguard/Neighbor	Dead
42	Mathblade		"Wait so Derek Jeter is famous and he didn't take steroids, or beat or murder his girlfriend or wife? I'm not sure I understand. " -- Warren Holstein

Town dead: 9 Blue Mafia dead: 1 Other Mafia dead: 0 Other dead: 0Players alive: 32

Please let me know what I missed people. I did this super fast.

[MathBlade]

Since I think GS is an innocent tool rather than scumfirming tool I would like Thor most of all

If you still think of it as a guilty maker DGB or Iroanavp or Valhalla.

[MathBlade]

Since I think GS is an innocent tool rather than scumfirming tool I would like Thor most of all

If you still think of it as a guilty maker DGB or Iroanavp or Valhalla.

all 3 names you listed are town LOL

I disagree. But if I'm wrong if Cookie Bakers uses their Gunsmith on them they will get an innocent. And if I am right they will get a guilty as none of these claims should have guns according to the Wiki (for what that's worth apparently not much).

[MathBlade]

And this is all assuming Cookie Bakers is town (which I'm not 100% sold on either)

[MathBlade]

Just a sec thanks Getting that now

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Fixed table

	Player Name	Important Info	Role	Alive or Dead
1	Creature
2	TownBlock (Dwlee99 / Murdercat / McMenno)		Claimed roleblocked valhalla
3	DrippingGoofball		Claimed VT, Claimed One Shot BP after Neo
4	PeregrineV
5	Blackstar		Friendly Neighbor	Dead
6	VA-11 Hall-A (Dunnstral / Zachstralkita)
7	serrapaladin	Neighbors with Drixx/Serrapaladin/Almost50	Claimed VT, not a VT but claims to be a Citizen/Neighbor
8	Skybird
9	hebichan	Claimed many different things end of day two. Some kind of neighbor with Accountant? Some roles. See end of D3.
10	Narna
11	Varsoon		Claimed one shot Neo, somehow checks twice
12	Egg	RBs Valhalla, Elyse	RBs Valhalla << Sketchiness here for other reasons
13	Blanche (gigabyteTroubadour / kraska77)		Jailkeeper/Neighbor	Dead
14	Aeronaut *
15	Elitism (Transcend / MariaR / gerryoat)
16	boring	In a hood with Shaziro and likely KlingonCelt and three others.
17	amalgam (davesaz / Yume / randomidget)		Claimed Mason
18	RachMarie		Claimed Mason
19	Fire Assassin		Ascetic Citizen/Neighbor	Dead
20	Seraphim
21	Bacde		JOAT[Watcher/Follower/Neapolitan/Commuter/Doctor/Roleblocker]	Dead
22	Drixx	This is a very strong town read	Claimed Doctor/neighbor with Serrapaladin/Almost50
23	CCC		2 shot voyeur	Dead
24	iraonavp		Claimed VT, Claimed Neopolitan when pressured
25	Comparing Realities Accountant		JOAT[Cop/Watcher/Doctor/Motion Detector/Neapolitan/Jailkeeper]	Dead
26	Elyse
27	Cookie Bakers (Titus / Shiro)	In a hood with Parama and player X. Suspects player X of being scum.	Claimed Gunsmith
28	KlingonCelt	In a hood with boring and likely KlingonCelt and three others.	Claimed Mason
29	Map Wolf BBMolla
30	Lapsa
31	Foxbird		Voyeur/Neighbor	Dead
32	shos		Motion Detector/Neighbor	Dead
33	Boem_u_dusi		Claims Town PR, crumbs lover, crumbs cop, claims watcher, gets results cooberated by Egg << Sketchiness here
34	Almost50
35	Skelda
36	Hot Chocolate		One Shot Bulletproof	Dead
37	long_island_medium
38	Bellaphant *
39	Thor665 AlpacaAlpaca
40	Shaziro	Likely In a hood with boring and Shaziro and 3 others.	Claimed watcher, then follower with bad result, then odd night follower, this is scum
41	Parama	Titus said they were in a hood with Parama. No one CC'd but no one confirmed	Bodyguard/Neighbor	Dead
42	Mathblade		"Wait so Derek Jeter is famous and he didn't take steroids, or beat or murder his girlfriend or wife? I'm not sure I understand. " -- Warren Holstein

Town dead: 9 Blue Mafia dead: 1 Other Mafia dead: 0 Other dead: 0Players alive: 32

[MathBlade]

Shit not fixed forgot Skelda hang on again.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Hopefully for the last time fixed table

	Player Name	Important Info	Role	Alive or Dead
1	Creature
2	TownBlock (Dwlee99 / Murdercat / McMenno)		Claimed roleblocked valhalla
3	DrippingGoofball		Claimed VT, Claimed One Shot BP after Neo
4	PeregrineV
5	Blackstar		Friendly Neighbor	Dead
6	VA-11 Hall-A (Dunnstral / Zachstralkita)
7	serrapaladin	Neighbors with Drixx/Serrapaladin/Almost50	Claimed VT, not a VT but claims to be a Citizen/Neighbor
8	Skybird
9	hebichan	Claimed many different things end of day two. Some kind of neighbor with Accountant? Some roles. See end of D3.
10	Narna
11	Varsoon		Claimed one shot Neo, somehow checks twice
12	Egg	RBs Valhalla, Elyse	RBs Valhalla << Sketchiness here for other reasons
13	Blanche (gigabyteTroubadour / kraska77)		Jailkeeper/Neighbor	Dead
14	Aeronaut *
15	Elitism (Transcend / MariaR / gerryoat)
16	boring	In a hood with Shaziro and Skelda and likely KlingonCelt and two others.
17	amalgam (davesaz / Yume / randomidget)		Claimed Mason
18	RachMarie		Claimed Mason
19	Fire Assassin		Ascetic Citizen/Neighbor	Dead
20	Seraphim
21	Bacde		JOAT[Watcher/Follower/Neapolitan/Commuter/Doctor/Roleblocker]	Dead
22	Drixx	This is a very strong town read	Claimed Doctor/neighbor with Serrapaladin/Almost50
23	CCC		2 shot voyeur	Dead
24	iraonavp		Claimed VT, Claimed Neopolitan when pressured
25	Comparing Realities Accountant		JOAT[Cop/Watcher/Doctor/Motion Detector/Neapolitan/Jailkeeper]	Dead
26	Elyse
27	Cookie Bakers (Titus / Shiro)	In a hood with Parama and player X. Suspects player X of being scum.	Claimed Gunsmith
28	KlingonCelt	In a hood with boring, Skelda, and likely KlingonCelt and two others.	Claimed Mason
29	Map Wolf BBMolla
30	Lapsa
31	Foxbird		Voyeur/Neighbor	Dead
32	shos		Motion Detector/Neighbor	Dead
33	Boem_u_dusi		Claims Town PR, crumbs lover, crumbs cop, claims watcher, gets results cooberated by Egg << Sketchiness here
34	Almost50
35	Skelda
36	Hot Chocolate		One Shot Bulletproof	Dead
37	long_island_medium
38	Bellaphant *
39	Thor665 AlpacaAlpaca
40	Shaziro	Likely In a hood with boring and Skelda and Shaziro and 2 others.	Claimed watcher, then follower with bad result, then odd night follower, this is scum
41	Parama	Titus said they were in a hood with Parama. No one CC'd but no one confirmed	Bodyguard/Neighbor	Dead
42	Mathblade		"Wait so Derek Jeter is famous and he didn't take steroids, or beat or murder his girlfriend or wife? I'm not sure I understand. " -- Warren Holstein

Town dead: 9 Blue Mafia dead: 1 Other Mafia dead: 0 Other dead: 0Players alive: 32

There we go

...Thread reading is fun. You should do it

[MathBlade]

Why'd you claim Blue, then?

You're just insulting people as if that someone validates you.
It doesn't.

The world is coming to an end. Varsoon and I agree on something.

VOTE: Shaziro

Can't let my setup spec guesses override my guilty as described yesterday. Lapsa based on song crumbs also good assuming I am right.

@Titus - Again whoever you have a "guilty" on you may not as there are town roles with guns. *sigh*

[MathBlade]

I'm still in RVS

this


I uh...want to start reading but...

.every breath I take

gets one more page in the thread..... >_>

I'll be watching you
Every breath you take
and every move you make

Couldn't resist throwing a pop reference.

Like posts like this are fucking terrible. Don't do this. It's not funny and is actually anti-town in a game this large on D1.

@RachMarie -- Most standard cops too. Neopolitan depends on flavor of the GM.

FYI if I am right this was the signal they used. Let me go through Cookie Baker's ISO and check a few things.

[MathBlade]

Math, it is possible but thanks for reminding scum what they have to claim to get away

...If a player is town and you claim that you have a guilty on them then they flip town it is "gasp" not a guilty.

The only way Shaziro is town is if a moderator fucked up and gave him "Neopolitan action" instead of what the wiki says to do. That is a confirmed guilty. There is no claim Shaziro can give that makes logical sense.

[MathBlade]

The target will be told to claim.

Math stop with the confirmed guilty nonsense on Shaz ty.

No. You're welcome for pressuring scum.

Pedit: Vig away will only show my honesty and that Shaziro needs rope.

Map Wolf too few posts for a read.
Hebichan likely town
Lapsa 50/50 on. If my system holds they are red scum w/ Shaziro.

[MathBlade]

my would lynch list looks ~ like:

townblock, long_island_medium, egg, seraphim, hebichan

Actually I don't want to lynch Lapsa, but I still want that claim.

UNVOTE:

This is bad. Lynch or vig this please after confirmed scum. Only people that should be forced to claim are scum. Suspicion : blue mafia

[MathBlade]

my would lynch list looks ~ like:

townblock, long_island_medium, egg, seraphim, hebichan

Actually I don't want to lynch Lapsa, but I still want that claim.

UNVOTE:

This is bad. Lynch or vig this please after confirmed scum. Only people that should be forced to claim are scum. Suspicion : blue mafia

Which means you vote scum.

[MathBlade]

my would lynch list looks ~ like:

townblock, long_island_medium, egg, seraphim, hebichan

Actually I don't want to lynch Lapsa, but I still want that claim.

UNVOTE:

This is bad. Lynch or vig this please after confirmed scum. Only people that should be forced to claim are scum. Suspicion : blue mafia

Which means you vote scum.

Huh?

Agreed on Egg red scum.
The only people who should be forced to not wear pants are people thought to be scum. If you do not want to lynch someone you think they are town. Ergo wanting a claim from a player you suspect to be town baaaaad.

[MathBlade]

The target will be told to claim.

Math stop with the confirmed guilty nonsense on Shaz ty.

No. You're welcome for pressuring scum.

Pedit: Vig away will only show my honesty and that Shaziro needs rope.

Map Wolf too few posts for a read.
Hebichan likely town
Lapsa 50/50 on. If my system holds they are red scum w/ Shaziro.

Your "honesty" is NAI. This is multiball. You can believe something and be wrong too. CCC flipped scum remember?

Why is hebi town?

Yes that was a belief. This on Shaziro is fact. Shaziro is scum or mod fucked up. There is no other option.

[MathBlade]

Getting specific posts now for hebichan

[MathBlade]

Math, it is possible but thanks for reminding scum what they have to claim to get away

...If a player is town and you claim that you have a guilty on them then they flip town it is "gasp" not a guilty.

The only way Shaziro is town is if a moderator fucked up and gave him "Neopolitan action" instead of what the wiki says to do. That is a confirmed guilty. There is no claim Shaziro can give that makes logical sense.

I checked somebody last night and got "tracker action", soooooo. The mod is running the role differently than you think. You can report that to a listmod if you want, I guess?

P-edit: Wait...did Math say that they have a guilty on me? Despite earlier saying that CB's "guilty" on somebody (who was actually scum btw) wasn't a -real- guilty and she needed to stop calling it that? LOL nope, I know where I'm voting!

VOTE: MathBlade

You outed my limitation on my role, are trying to get me mislynched, and now you're being a hypocrite. Three strikes, you're out.

Vote away. It is your scum death sentence.

Pedit: Boem for this specific question here.

[MathBlade]

@Shaz,

Did you check a lurker? I kinda want to know if we have the possibility of having checked the same person.

Bad Titus trying to out a tracker if Shaziro is telling the truth.

If you believe Shaziro he is a rolecop + Follower. Waaaay too broken based on the curve.

[MathBlade]

Yes they are.

Hebichan is town to me because they kept their claim the same and the moderator fixed their error.
In contrast if Shaziro was actually a mod error Wake wouldn't have said an NAI statement when asked. Otherwise he would be conf towning someone but he would correct it on future nights. Ergo Shaziro is scum.

[MathBlade]

Math lol even if you flip town it doesn't mean that everyone you point the finger at or everyone who tries to lynch you is scum. I'm afraid everything's not that easy.

Never said it was 100% right but pretty damn sure scum are pushing me right now.

[MathBlade]

Yes they are.

Hebichan is town to me because they kept their claim the same and the moderator fixed their error.
In contrast if Shaziro was actually a mod error Wake wouldn't have said an NAI statement when asked. Otherwise he would be conf towning someone but he would correct it on future nights. Ergo Shaziro is scum.

Role =\= alignment. Explain how Hebi knew about the roleblockers neighborhood yesterday.

No. Wake cannot confirm someone as honest or dishonest by answers unless he made an error in moderation. To say that he "mods follower differently" would confirm Shaz as follower which he can't do as a mod ethically.

He made an error on CR's flip so he had to correct that. We are drawing the logical inference that Hebi was honest.

Second paragraph. That is my point. That is why wake made an NAI statement. And that is why Shaziro is scum. If Shaziro is town Wake would not have repeated the mistake a second time without correction.

About Hebi gotta look that up.

[MathBlade]

Yes they are.

Hebichan is town to me because they kept their claim the same and the moderator fixed their error.
In contrast if Shaziro was actually a mod error Wake wouldn't have said an NAI statement when asked. Otherwise he would be conf towning someone but he would correct it on future nights. Ergo Shaziro is scum.

There are two possible scenarios, actually.

A: You are scum who wants to latch on to a bad reason to try and lynch somebody because either you think it makes you look towny and you hope people will just handwave it, or you for some reason really want me lynched.

B: You are town who can't accept that maybe, just maybe, your interpretation of "what type of action was performed, but not the subject of said action" is different from the mod's, or just wrong outright. Want to know how I'm different from a rolecop? I can't tell if the person is a JoAT, has an Inventor Item that they used to perform the action, how many shots they have, if they're odd night or even night, or if they're an unlimited shot of that role. I just know that in that night, they performed that action.

You're either scum, or on a tunnel that has caused you to screw up something awful and is leading you to play massively anti-town.

It is never anti town to tunnel a guilty.
First post says roles are normal.
What you are posting is not a normal follower.
Ergo you be scum.

[MathBlade]

@Math, Maybe it's not a "mistake" but just how Wake mods the role. Unless Shaz just "checks" all his buddies; he likely is who he says he is given no redirector.

Which makes it a moderator fuckup to handle the role in a not normal way (ergo the Wiki) claim during the day publically that all roles follow the Wiki and then not have roles follow the wiki.

So either mod is lying or Shaziro is and when Shaziro flips will know if this game is bastard. Til then I am assuming the game isn't bastard.

Can't find where you are talking about Hebi. Point me in the right direction please?

[MathBlade]

@Mod - do all the roles in this game conform with the roles as presented in Wiki, which has been suggested as the way a Normal game is run, and you indicated Normal Game roles.

The only difference with this game from regular Large Normals is that we balanced it the way we wanted it, and have allowed Hydras. All roles and their mechanics are Normal.

All roles and mechanics are NORMAL.

This means a follower gets "investigative" action. NOT watcher action. NOT tracker action.

[MathBlade]

You literally gave Titus shit for claiming a guilty on somebody, and are now doing it yourself based on the assumption that the way you see follower being run is the only way it can be run. Are you fucking serious?

P-edit: For fuck's sake, just because you interpret what the wiki says as meaning one thing does -not- mean that is the only way it works!

...It is not a difference in interpretation. It is reading.

Follower gives the TYPE of action.

[MathBlade]

This setup does not include any non-normal/Variant roles.

^^This is from the first post.

Follower learning the exact action is a VARIANT.

[MathBlade]

Welp after rading the last ten pages I don't see anything to deter me from breaking up the roleblocker neighborhood.

Let us commence with the breakage of eggs.

Do the roleblockers even have a neighborhood?

How did Hebican know Town block was in a hood?

Interesting point.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade, it's time to move along. Mod basically admitted that some kind of mistake was made. Shaziro can still be angleshooting scum, but he probably wasn't faking his role.

No. It isn't. Shaziro is most likely a rolecop and lying.

I also want Shaziro's flip to demonstrate if this is bastard. If it is then my apologies go to Shaziro. But when a mod says there are no fucking Variants in the first post and then a player claims to have a Variant role this makes them scum. Not "ohhhh maybe they are town". No they are scum.

[MathBlade]

So what do you think of Hebi now?

I think my prior read is void and I want them to answer.

[MathBlade]

Setup

This setup does not include any non-normal/Variant roles.
Mod is NOT infallible. If you suspect a mistake, please let me know via PM right away.
Role assumptions are not advised.


meh

And as I said before I already asked Wake. No reason to repeatedly PM wake asking the same thing.

[MathBlade]

You're scum with Hebi aren't you Math?

VOTE: Hebichan

....No.

I would never take this path as scum. Ever.

[MathBlade]

Setup

This setup does not include any non-normal/Variant roles.
Mod is NOT infallible. If you suspect a mistake, please let me know via PM right away.
Role assumptions are not advised.


meh

And as I said before I already asked Wake. No reason to repeatedly PM wake asking the same thing.

If he was angleshooting then he's an asshole. I want to believe that Shaziro is not an asshole.

I want this too. But what I want is irrelevant.
Unless a game is proven bastard you assume it is not.
Therefore Shaziro is scum.

[MathBlade]

Why would I move from a confirmed guilty onto a suspicious player? I do think Egg is scum.

I KNOW Shaziro is scum or it is bastard.

[MathBlade]

I literally just explained why I'm different than a rolecop. CB, if Hebi flips scum does that confirm math scum in your eyes? If that's a reasonable connection, I'd be fine with going Hebi.

Confirm, no.

Think about it. They have Hebi as town. Math is notoriously stubborn but when I highlight Hebi's slip their read is void. The role=\= alignment did nothing. Yet this did. It resembles a bus. Confirm is too strong a word.

*sigh*

You know my scum meta. This is atrociously bad.

When I was scum with Bji did nothing but say Bji scum.
Scum with Karnos did nothing but say Karnos scum.

If anything your argument should be I am bussing Shaziro. However I am not scum sooo

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Hebichan

It isn't a confirmed guilty, for fuck's sake. You're -wrong-.

Then you had a whole week to claim mod fuckup. This game is bastard or you are scum.

[MathBlade]

shaz is confirmed guilty. Hebichan is likely scum but I want to see how they answer.

Be. Back in a bit. Gotta get ready for long day.

[MathBlade]

1) I was demonstrating Titus's guilty is not a guilty but their read.
2) That was when I hadn't put it together yet.

Afk starting now.

[MathBlade]

LAPSA TARGETED CB

DRIXX CLAIMED DOC AND TARGETED CB

CB IS NOT DEAD

HOW HARD IS IT TO PARSE THIS PEEPS

Oh. Derp.

VOTE: Lapsa

[MathBlade]

Mod: What result would a gunsmith get if targeting a joat with both a doctor and a gunsmith? If that was town? Scum?

I will point to the Wiki.

......Internal rage intensifying......

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Egg

Just gonna do this since no one will fucking listen *sigh*

Same as before Wiki calls Shaziro a liar. Mod says look at Wiki for answers.
People say don't use wiki Shaziro is town.

Math bangs head on wall.

Egg is likely scum.

[MathBlade]

A Follower is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it gives the results according to Natural Action Resolution/Normal Game. If a Follower is somehow blocked from their action (by Roleblocker, Jailkeeper, Rolestopper, Ascetic, or Commuter), they should receive a "No Result" pm, rather than a "did not see anything" pm. A Follower would not see a Ninja committing a kill, however, and would receive a "did not see anything" pm in that case.

Right and that result is the type of action. Investigative , killing , etc.

Not a Neopolitan action. *sigh*

Just this game pisses me off. Egg is a scumread of mine so that is okay. Hebichan depending on answer is confirmed scum. I need more rope :/

Gonna try to cool down away from it for the day.

[MathBlade]

This game. Can't fucking quit it even though it pisses me off.

Apparently after commenting a different way Wake answered with the wiki is inconsistent.

Which means that there is no clue how a follower should actually work. Soooo not alignment indicative but I am extremely literal so IMHO this was handled incorrectly but it does not conf scum Shaziro because Wake is taking a pronoun differently.

@CB - Townfirms

Quite honestly I wish I could curl under a rock and die.

[MathBlade]

That is about the game not IRL. I do not wish to die IRL but this game depresses me to insane levels.

The sad thing is I keep trying to attract attention to die but nothing works