Shadowrun Mafia - Game Over

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Can we get a hydra pt?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Still waiting on Lilith to arrive in the hydra pt to discuss choices <.<

-sc

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Draft: Explosives expert

[Daenerys and Dragons]

(Sorry guys, I completely forgot Cakes even signed us up for this game )

[Daenerys and Dragons]

VOTE: Jaereed

Two distinct things you gotta know about varsoon games.
Varsoon makes sme weird mechanics, and if this is anything like bloodborne, the original party leader is scum. ALWAYS!

That means jaereed must be lynched because of game mechanics, ALWAYS

No ifs ands or butts.

MOD META THIS GAME TO DEATH!!!


FOR BLOOBORNE!

~Fire

[also never moving my vote. This must go]

Hate this mod meta from Fire. Trying to out-mod meta Varsoon is absurd and will never work.
Plus his meta is inaccurate too. The initial leader was town in Saga, like others have noted.

VOTE: Jaereed

Jaereed is confirmed scum!
@Fire - Do I need to know anything about the setup for day 1?

I don't like this insta sheep from Vedith either.

Space Cowboy's posting is scummy, but it might just be DS's posting style. We'll see, holding off there.

VOTE: Grovyle

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Hate this mod meta from Fire. Trying to out-mod meta Varsoon is absurd and will never work.
Plus his meta is inaccurate too. The initial leader was town in Saga, like others have noted.

I don't count saga, because I wasn't in it.
THEREFORE IT DOESNT COUNT!

Although Space Dandy 1 had the crew be all town I think?
Don't remember.

I wasn't in the crew.


~Fire

Just because you weren't it doesn't mean it doesn't exist <.<
Space Dandy 1 didn't have a crew mechanic iirc

VOTE: Daenerys and Dragons

Unsurprising

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

What about that one post bothered you?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

You're implying that something about our first post was enough to vote us at least partly seriously.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Using bad and incorrect mod meta to tunnel someone is not townie at all
I kind of get what you're saying about scum not wanting to push the party leader but I don't think it makes them "conf town"

If Jae is scum it's an easy way for Grovyle to distance from a buddy early on without actually hurting the chances of them getting on the run team
If Jae is town it puts pressure on a townie in a position with a lot of power

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

basically

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Dude you're caught. First you tried to make it seem like a personal bias but we don't have an adverserial relationship so it comes off as fake. Then you make up bad reasons to defend your bad FB vote despite acknowledging why I'm saying he's town is valid. You're entire strategy has been exposed, please die now.

You spent half your time in the Bloodborne dead thread cursing at us, you obviously have reasoning to have a grudge.

Acknowledging that what you're saying makes sense doesn't mean I agree with it.

It's like someone saying, "this person is scummy because they wouldn't tunnel a strong player as scum" which can be seen as a valid point but can be disagreed with.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I didn't curse at you. I wasn't mad at you and if people read the actual PT they would see that.

Our interaction was basically

Me: "If you didn't stop me, we'd have been way ahead."

You:"Yeah, sorry, I know I shouldn't have stopped you!"

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8075171
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8075175
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8075184
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8080724

etc etc

[Daenerys and Dragons]

We didn't hate you. But you obviously harbored some vitriol towards us. You did curse. You insulted us several times. And you're wrong about us here - I don't know why you're trying to push us so seriously over a post Cakes made that sounds exactly like he did in Bloodborne. Stop.

-Daenerys

pedit: What was off about whatever comment on space cowboy? I believe cakes said they were feeling scummy, and you're getting bad vibes, so what gives?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

VOTE: vedith

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Cakes agreeing with something that someone else said is an "angle you can't see from town"?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Using bad and incorrect mod meta to tunnel someone is not townie at all
I kind of get what you're saying about scum not wanting to push the party leader but I don't think it makes them "conf town"

If Jae is scum it's an easy way for Grovyle to distance from a buddy early on without actually hurting the chances of them getting on the run team
If Jae is town it puts pressure on a townie in a position with a lot of power

-dragons

Okay, this is pretty scummy.....

~fire

How is this scummy?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

So I'm really pissed off at shit IRL and this game isn't helping.
Sick of being mislynched by complete fucking dumbasses who have no fucking clue how to read me and it will cloud my judgement so I'm gonna let Lilith take charge for a bit.
I would have probably replaced out at this point if I was solo ftr

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

OK I've cooled off a bit now so going to respond to some stuff and will try not to flame so much since that was a dick move.

Just take a break Cakez, its a game after all.

You think anyone pushing you is scum or stands out? (for when you get back)

~Fire

I'll get to this after I finish these responses.

Using bad and incorrect mod meta to tunnel someone is not townie at all
I kind of get what you're saying about scum not wanting to push the party leader but I don't think it makes them "conf town"

If Jae is scum it's an easy way for Grovyle to distance from a buddy early on without actually hurting the chances of them getting on the run team
If Jae is town it puts pressure on a townie in a position with a lot of power

-dragons

Okay, this is pretty scummy.....

~fire

How is this scummy?

-Daenerys

It was the way it was went about saying that ABR had a point will still dismissing it.
Basically saying "Yeah, I guess he is likely town, but no way is CONF TOWN!"

And the last point about pressuring a townie made no sense.

Please read my posts more thoroughly. I can see how a point is reached without agreeing with it, I went over it.

What didn't make sense about it?

Y'know. ABR somehow caught 3 scum in SaGa. I'm tempted to sheep him. Although I'm not sure about the conf!town for Grovyle... This doesn't seem very town!FB. Town!FB is a lot more serious than scum FB.

VOTE: D&D

This sheep is quite bad and I hate the waffle on FB.

So I'm really pissed off at shit IRL and this game isn't helping.
Sick of being mislynched by complete fucking dumbasses who have no fucking clue how to read me and it will cloud my judgement so I'm gonna let Lilith take charge for a bit.
I would have probably replaced out at this point if I was solo ftr

-dragons

So you stopped me from lynching Nahdia in a pivotal moment of Bloodborne which then cascaded in a series of catastrophes and lead to a town loss, and we all got over it, but if someone else "misreads" you, then it's unfair and you want to replace out? Seems legit.

When you've been mislynched 20+ times despite having been playing for less then a year onsite and you get wagoned out of the gate for the tenth time, it gets frustrating yes.

Ok, now my vote definitely stays. They had 3(?) votes on them and blew up. There was no reason for it.

See above comment.

Lilith and I haven't discussed any reads yet besides both agreeing that ABR probably has a grudge against us but I'm probably going to move to Space Cowboy if she doesn't object. These posts go beyond just his posting style in scumminess, things earlier like his "being scummy is fun" are posting style scumminess but not this.

My initial Grovyle may have been wrong, I'm seeing enough for evidence for them being town from ABR and Jae to want to back off for now.

Also for Grovyle - for the people pushing us Jae is probtown, abr is null and Cowboy is a scumread.

-dragons obviously

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Someone plz explain what a waffle means.

-DS

It means to take both sides of an argument then to settle in the middle, basically. It's something scum do to look like they're taking a side, but then leave their options open.

Lilith and I haven't discussed any reads yet besides both agreeing that ABR probably has a grudge against us

Randomidget is always against me, Cerb is vocally against me thinking I am a bad person, you are a friendly dude SirCakez, I fully like and enjoy playing with you and you are a great guy. Your hydra is completely fine, you guys are fine. I just think you're scum.

I don't have any problems with you either
But it really felt like, at least with the initial naked vote, that you just wanted to PL us in revenge or something akin to that.
That assumption was probably wrong since you've followed up more at least.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@Lilith

VOTE: Jaereed

Two distinct things you gotta know about varsoon games.
Varsoon makes sme weird mechanics, and if this is anything like bloodborne, the original party leader is scum. ALWAYS!

That means jaereed must be lynched because of game mechanics, ALWAYS

No ifs ands or butts.

MOD META THIS GAME TO DEATH!!!


FOR BLOOBORNE!

~Fire

[also never moving my vote. This must go]

Hate this mod meta from Fire. Trying to out-mod meta Varsoon is absurd and will never work.
Plus his meta is inaccurate too. The initial leader was town in Saga, like others have noted.

I feel like by the stage in the game cakey posted he should have realized FB's push was clearly for pressure to try to get a read on me. It was pretty obvious in the fact that he continued the push after he had been disproven, and I feel like pointing out the meta thing is just for the sake of echoing others here.

Okay. Not really anything I can say to this, since I can't read Cakes' mind.

VOTE: Jaereed

Jaereed is confirmed scum!
@Fire - Do I need to know anything about the setup for day 1?

I don't like this insta sheep from Vedith either.

Space Cowboy's posting is scummy, but it might just be DS's posting style. We'll see, holding off there.

VOTE: Grovyle

-dragons

Remember what ABR said about wanting to be on missions if you're scum? This fits the bill. He's picking at what is clearly an RVS wagon on me and I feel it's indicative of trying to get on my good side so that your slot is chosen for a mission. Vedith's vote was fine, imo.

The fact that Cakey acknowledged SC's posting to be scummy, then tried to dismiss it as merely being posting style and saying he'll hold off is what pings me. It's what I can imagine scum doing to avoid giving a read on their partner (or a potential mislynch if they're unsure on how the game flow is going to run).

Basically, I'm finding it hard to believe a town SirCakez would push fb of all people here over the scummier looking Space Cowboy. Or Vedith. ABR gave good reasons for Grovyle slot to be town but there is more to it than that. I'll actually go point out what I saw after this, I guess.

I didn't like Vedith's entrance either, and it wasn't because it was a wagon on you specifically. I'm not really sure why.

I don't think picking at an RVS wagon would get someone on your "good side." If it's not a serious wagon then we wouldn't get brownie points, so why would that matter?

In my experience DS is pretty solid lynchbait material and therefore, even though we think Space Cowboy is scummy, we weren't sure that their posts were scum-motivated. But since you and Cakes brought it up,

VOTE: Space Cowboy

VOTE: Daenerys and Dragons

Unsurprising

-dragons

This also feels like a discredit similar to how Cakey acted in Cocktail party when RC replaced in.

What about that one post bothered you?

See above. The discredit train.

As far as your own posting, you're quite focused on how other people are finding your slot scummy as compared to actually reading other players so far, and I also dislike that.

We already explained our belief that ABR was coming after us because of a grudge from Bloodborne.

Discussing other people's reads on me is generally how I play. Sorry?

Using bad and incorrect mod meta to tunnel someone is not townie at all
I kind of get what you're saying about scum not wanting to push the party leader but I don't think it makes them "conf town"

If Jae is scum it's an easy way for Grovyle to distance from a buddy early on without actually hurting the chances of them getting on the run team
If Jae is town it puts pressure on a townie in a position with a lot of power

-dragons

This is also pretty bad. The first line especially, though I'm having trouble articulating why. I don't feel like anyone who looked at what Grovyle was saying would actually believe he was truly tunneling. It feels like Cakey was surface level reading to find something to push on to take focus away from Space Cowboy, which is where the thread focus was starting to be at the time.

The second paragraph seems to run with the assumption that Grovyle is scum. It leaves no room for town motive, yet the 2nd line is actually a point for why Grovyle could be doing it as town. He's trying to spin something into being scum motivated when it's town motivated.

Uh... basically most of what you say here is not really true. Space Cowboy wasn't getting much (if any) negative attention when Cakes posted, so there's no reason for us to be posting fluff to draw attention away from them. And I think you're misreading the second paragraph. In both cases Grov is scum, but the scenario changes depending on your alignment..?

Using bad and incorrect mod meta to tunnel someone is not townie at all
I kind of get what you're saying about scum not wanting to push the party leader but I don't think it makes them "conf town"

If Jae is scum it's an easy way for Grovyle to distance from a buddy early on without actually hurting the chances of them getting on the run team
If Jae is town it puts pressure on a townie in a position with a lot of power

-dragons

Okay, this is pretty scummy.....

~fire

How is this scummy?

-Daenerys

It was the way it was went about saying that ABR had a point will still dismissing it.
Basically saying "Yeah, I guess he is likely town, but no way is CONF TOWN!"

And the last point about pressuring a townie made no sense.

Not sure if Cakes already responded to this.
There is a difference between saying "you're right, but I won't agree with you because I want to leave my options open" and "your reasoning might be valid in some cases, but not all - it can't be used to unquestionable determine alignment."
I don't really know Cakes' thought process behind the pressuring the townie line, but I don't see any reason that would entirely preclude scum from pushing town, even if they do hold power. It's good for scum if they can get people to question someone who is a potential town leader by default.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Jae - I can't type up a more complex response from mobile but I feel a large part of the reason you're confused over my Grovyle push is because I thought their push was serious (Fire acknowledged that it was at one point iirc). While most of your posting seems to come from the perspective of it being a reaction wagon.

I don't have any problems with you either
But it really felt like, at least with the initial naked vote, that you just wanted to PL us in revenge or something akin to that.
That assumption was probably wrong since you've followed up more at least.

Hell no. I've consistently said that it's due to your behavior in this game, and nothing else. I don't want revenge against anybody, I'm here to win this game. The only player that I am at odds with is randomidget because he's acidic towards me.

Which is what I acknowledged earlier.

[raises eyebrow]

Huh. I really haven't played with you before. Eh, yada yada meta yada, regardless, this is less than 12 hours into the game. I'm allowed to look at both sides of the issue right now. In most games this wouldn't be out of RVS.

PEdit: I'm still bummed about it (I love SK) but that game was 6 months ago. That's a really long time to hold a grudge.

It's not really the "looking at both sides" that bothers me, it's how you tried to look like you were picking a side when you weren't.

Fire how can you say that D: I am in the game. Of course it will be. ^_^

As RC used to tell me:

"It only takes one player to ruin a game"

Ill let you all guess who that will be.

~Fire

;----;

RR's posting has been fairly mundane so far which is surprising. Cerb usually comes blasting out of the gate but his posts aren't doing very much here. Keeping that slot in back of mind while I read last 3 pages.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Making it up? Please. This is exactly what you do. I mean we hydrad as scum. You were careful to death and then retreated back cause it was showing. You restrain yourself as scum mate. Facts are facts and I use facts as either alignment ^_^

Why aren't you voting them then?

@Jaereed on the D&D AtE, I have seen him do this alot lately, and I think its just a general attitude towards the game that gets him frustrated.
I don't use as that alignment indicative and it kind of annoys me to see it.

I will say, I don't want to lynch (jail) him today, but I don't townread him right now.

~Fire

Yeah it's a bad habit of mine to flip out when getting wagoned as town. I was in a really terrible mood yesterday and then this exacerbated it <.<
Gonna try to not do that in the future.

RR didn't post anything of note in the last pages so I have a slight scumread there, surprisingly. It just doesn't feel like the town!cerb I know (I don't think any of the RR posts were Drixx yet).

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Scum FB is more careful of how he speaks

.

Like exact word for words what said as scum.
And Shiro was 100% making it up.

Somehow I bought it.

~Fire

VOTE: Vote Grovyle

I just don't like his tone so far combined with the attempted mod meta read earlier.

This is weird...I don't like this vote from Worldzmine. You made a point of showing how that push wasn't scum oriented but Worldz votes Grovyle without touching/interacting with your post. It's probably this that makes Grovyle likely town.

I also didn't like World's vote here
Felt like the skimmy vote scum who don't want to get involved would make

D&D, why have you disappeared? Please come back and say things so I can decide if I should sheep ABR.

Individuals with default acess to PTs, that is, Yume, PV, ABR in the Astral, and Random, Detective Moonlight, and whoever ends up taking over the Nahdia slot in the Matrix...thoughts on one another?

Everyone, thoughts on likelihood of scum within those separate groupings?

-Cerb

I had no access to internet all day until now, not sure what Lilith has been up to.
Talking about the runs and mechanics is great and all RR, but do you actually possess any reads? I know you said earlier you like to focus on mechanics early, but previously in Varsoon games as town you at least made some sort of push early on (for example, me and Gale in Space Dandy 2). Here I can't see any sort of game solving of that kind from you.

-dragona

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Sorry guys, I've been really lazy about this game. Catching up shortly.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

MathBlade is acting a bit weird compared to the last game, maybe this is town MathBlade? I dunno. I've just never seen them not tunnel one person continually.

I'm kinda busy today, not sure if I can be active or not. I don't feel any reason to move my vote, Space Cowboy still looks like a good pick for prison IMO.

This feels icky.

I agree with this sentiment.

In response to MathBlade going "karnos is scum because they are doing all the things that I taught them to do as scum--like be so loudly wrong that nobody would think they would do that as scum," karnos goes "yeah I think mathblade is town" (implying correct read from Math?) without attempt to defend himself against the points that supposedly town!Math is making.

I've been thinking that Space Cowboy and karnos are bussing for a few pages. It seemed like they were trying to just make as much noise as possible and distract everyone from getting real stuff done. Will need to think about this more though.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@Party leader person-

I want to go on the first mission.

Sorry guys, I've been really lazy about this game. Catching up shortly.

-Daenerys

when I see your name, I think "Bedknobs and Broomsticks"

Is this really

all you have to say?

Unfortunately this is no different from Bloodborne so it's not even AI it's just incredibly frustrating.

Still rereading.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Okay

What is your perspective on Space Cowboy's and karnos' interactions?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Oh, oops. Thought my vote was already here.

VOTE: Space Cowboy

Was waiting for D&D's response to my case after I unvoted then I guess I forgot because of the thing I thought I saw that wasn't a thing... The thing I'll just kindly ask everyone to forget about >.>

Hey JR, can you explain your vote?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Okay

What is your perspective on Space Cowboy's and karnos' interactions?

-Daenerys

It looks like they were arguing hypotheticals and best-play tactics. Makes sense with all of the added mechanics.

Are you asking because they both have semis for you as scum?

Actually it's because almost everyone seems to be scumreading one or the other.

I'm asking if you saw anything alignment indicative from the argument, since Space Cowboy claims karnos' theory talk is in fact AI.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Also ABR, stop trying to strongarm a lynch onto us. You didn't read us correctly in Bloodborne and you're not reading us correctly here.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Vote: Vedith

Reasons?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Koggz has 2 reads... And has played since the start... I call bullshit on this.

VOTE: Koggz

(if I wasn't already)

Isn't this a bit hypocritical? You said yourself you don't usually have many reads on D1.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

But I can't be scum.

This is annoying. Don't think it's AI though because this is usual behavior.

Can I make a request for you to actually do shit?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Like, you say you have no reads but instead of trying to do something about it/interacting with people/show that you've made an effort to analyze posts, all you can say is "I'm not scum! I'm not scum!" and "How do you expect to organize an all-town mission?" Neither of which are very helpful.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Haven't caught up. Did Cerb and Drixx wish me happy birthday? That's all that matters.

Ilu ABR and totally meant to but didn't yet so Happy Birthday! Even though the value of it has been diminished by the fact that you specifically called us out for not doing so already, I do mean it sincerely and wish you the best for your entire birthday year!

Yume: I can't? It's up to JarReed, but it's a matter of him identifying the most town slots in the game. It's difficult to do so when the game is, thus far, mostly setup speculation though. we need to move past all this.

For the record, even the broken combination DS is talking about had counters, in the form of a strongman kill available via long adventure paths, and a passive power neutralizer available via short adventure paths.

His caution is reasonable, but his example isn't nearly as catastrophic as he makes it sound.

Also, DS, I only used my power twice in that game, and technically I had to remove far more specific slots from the game than town did in order to win. Your point is taken though, the role was awesome.

Yume, is there anyone you're town reading at this point, and do you have any reason for those reads?

-Cerb

I will say, though, both of the SK roles were really amazing.

Too bad I was lynchproof and not bulletproof... I'm much better at avoiding getting lynched (I've only been lynched twice, and one was literally the worst town I've ever seen in a Fire and Ice game)

I really don't see the point of this post. It's not even about this game. A lot of your posts are like this, just tangential fluff that doesn't add anything and is partially off-topic even when you were addressing karnos' points about this game.

Also, you were probably the scummiest doctor I've ever seen, to the point that nobody believed your claim when you claimed. If you're going to insult us.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Like, you say you have no reads but instead of trying to do something about it/interacting with people/show that you've made an effort to analyze posts, all you can say is "I'm not scum! I'm not scum!" and "How do you expect to organize an all-town mission?" Neither of which are very helpful.

-Daenerys

Like, if you want me to be helpful, then don't vote me. At all. Not even as RVS vote. Because voting me triggers my defensive mechanism when I am town, making me incapable of doing anything else.

Jfc

I specifically said I don't think this behavior is alignment indicative. Nor am I voting you. It's just annoying as fuck to deal with because I have that same reaction to people voting me but I'm still trying to do shit.

-daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Hey Space Cowboy, do you have any other reason to scumread Koggz than "she's been here since the beginning and still has no reads?"

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

My hydra partner doesnt seem to want discussion rn so
Am catching up

I dislike the way grovyle uses and tries to enforce faulty mod meta
And vedith just tries to blend in with it
Strongly dislike the jailing idea since there are too many unknown factors
Ok the idea gets dropped, great.

@vedith any solid reason for a scumread early on? And why did you state a scumread but only backed it up with a vote a while later?

Im liking RR. They at least provide decent arguments.

@grovyle: you say mod gives scum headstart if there are not a lot of them, but i never saw an amount anywhere. Why do you believe thats the case here?

I have to disagree with ABR. Attacking the D1 party leader based on (faulty) mod meta is in no way AI. Sure, it looks like 'town wouldnt do that because they would get excluded'. But those are the most dangerous assumptions. Look, grovyle is townread by seemingly most people at the point im now (p9) and jae would be a shit party leader not taking him based on their own personal reads. And of course they can push a jae lynch without being questioned too much.

As someone said before, cowboy's tone is scummy af. I read a lot based bon tone, but i have the feeling that it will fail for most people here. I havent seen any decent case yet on them though?

I can kinda see where D&D are coming from with their posts. I dislike the naked vedith vote tho

Liking jae, but tend to disagree on their grovyle read

@koggz why the naked vote?

Wait
@D&D you say cowboy is lynchbait and then proceed to vote? Since when is lynchbait a scumtell?

Liking mathblade. Disliking grovyle's comment about 'it takes 1 player to destroy a game' Thank you but the apathy can stay away.

Wtf is all that deathproof bullshit just talk about something that is not fluff thank you very much

Karnos finally saying what has to be said: who cares if scum goes? Town gets advantages as well? Of course, if it can be avoided, awesome, but it shouldnt be this big of a subject D1


Matrix PT is empty. Random didnt post yet, ive been too busy to bother, and nahdia is still in need of a replacement.

Koggz is meh. Dunno what to think of them


Scumreads so far are vedith, grovyle and to a lesser extent cowboy and D&D
Let me try to start a wagon
VOTE: grovyle

-S

Voted Vedith for similar reasons to your disliking him

We held off on initially voting Space Cowboy because he is lynchbait. But he is being scummy beyond what I think is just lynchbait-iness.

It matters whether scum goes because it could give them the power to obliterate town later on if they go on several missions (individually or collectively).

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Ok, ok, and i guess ok. Not feeling like re-igniting thesetup discussion when there is relevant stuff going on.

Why not comment on our grovyle vote?

I forgot?

I disagree with some of the things you said overall but need to discuss more with Cakes.

I think it's curious that you think space cowboy's tone is "scummy af" but you are only mildly scumreading them.

-Daenerys

Awk.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Whatever. Not going to argue about something that was months ago.

My point was that you were trying to look like you were saying something relevant (i.e. in response to karnos' posts) but you weren't actually saying things that were relevant, or you were trying to confuse/distract by actively making parts of those replies irrelevant.

Not necessarily. Again, you said yourself that you rarely have reads D1 and I'm sure that's true of many people, even with scumhunting. I don't see you scumreading Yume--in fact you're townreading her--or PV, for that matter. If you said specifically that Koggz has failed to scumhunt or actively interact with people then maybe that'd be valid, but I don't believe that from her ISO you can definitively say that either.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

that was @ space cowboy.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I had a big multiquote then it disappeared somehow q.q
I'll just put my thoughts here

RR - at the time of your comment that said "I only make early pushes when there's massive contradictions but no one is talking" there were nearly 20 pages. How is that "no one talking"?

I didn't mind Grovyle's Koggz's vote but Space Cowboy following them on it was really awful.
Koggz is a town lean for me
Also lean town on PV
-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I had a big multiquote then it disappeared somehow q.q
I'll just put my thoughts here

RR - at the time of your comment that said "I only make early pushes when there's massive contradictions but no one is talking" there were nearly 20 pages. How is that "no one talking"?

I didn't mind Grovyle's Koggz's vote but Space Cowboy following them on it was really awful.
Koggz is a town lean for me
Also lean town on PV
-dragons

15 pages would be more accurate, and the majority of that was groyle and space cowboy, with a bit of JaeReed and myself, and it was largely setup and mechanic discussion.

So yes, that is no one talking.

-Cerb

And you townread everyone who was posting during that time?

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I had a big multiquote then it disappeared somehow q.q
I'll just put my thoughts here

RR - at the time of your comment that said "I only make early pushes when there's massive contradictions but no one is talking" there were nearly 20 pages. How is that "no one talking"?

I didn't mind Grovyle's Koggz's vote but Space Cowboy following them on it was really awful.
Koggz is a town lean for me
Also lean town on PV
-dragons

15 pages would be more accurate, and the majority of that was groyle and space cowboy, with a bit of JaeReed and myself, and it was largely setup and mechanic discussion.

So yes, that is no one talking.

-Cerb

And you townread everyone who was posting during that time?

-dragons

@Mathblade: I forgot to respond to you earlier, but know, I do not have any x must be y for z reasons to suggest at this point, other than agreeing with ABRs point about the lack of scum motivation for Groyvles push on JaeReed.

-Cerb

Yuck
It's been 30 pages, you should have SOMETHING by now

I had a big multiquote then it disappeared somehow q.q
I'll just put my thoughts here

RR - at the time of your comment that said "I only make early pushes when there's massive contradictions but no one is talking" there were nearly 20 pages. How is that "no one talking"?

I didn't mind Grovyle's Koggz's vote but Space Cowboy following them on it was really awful.
Koggz is a town lean for me
Also lean town on PV
-dragons

15 pages would be more accurate, and the majority of that was groyle and space cowboy, with a bit of JaeReed and myself, and it was largely setup and mechanic discussion.

So yes, that is no one talking.

-Cerb

And you townread everyone who was posting during that time?

-dragons

I like dragons head. Not sure who is who of the heads but dragons head seems to have good questions.

Dragons = SirCakez, Daenerys = lilith

From that post -- I noted the data ( as I'm sure *someone* on the scum team was smart enough to do already

Yes you said that scum were doing calculations.
And scum don't have to find town. So why the hell else would they do calculations?

Thirdly why the hell do you put me as scum as a townread of yours.
You said and I quote "if after this game I go to the scum PT and see you didn't think to do this".
Guess what genius I am not in the scum PT and trying to suggest that is all kinds of bad.

Mafia is a game of reading people. I use numbers to supplement but not make my case. Posting certain things only hurts people regardless of how easy it is to do. I could use my math degree and post a shit ton of things and write a program to do a lot of things. however I find the more numbers talk the less engaged people can be.

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

Pedit: KlingonCelt as they said have many different things to do in meat world at times. I asked again specifically to see if a certain response comes up. But now that you mentioned ignoring it is invalid. *sigh*

So MathBlade is town. Don't see scum going balls to the walls here and poking such an active slot.

VOTE: Vote: Space Cowboy

Forgot to add this.

What are your non-Space Cowboy reads? Your ISO is pretty devoid.

I believe that's L-2.

I believe this is the point where I yell at people a bit to slow down etc.

That is all.

-Cerb

Why should we slow down? Space Cowboy isn't getting any townier.

Also my Grovyle scumread has turned into a town lean, forgot if I said this earlier.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

We should slow down because there is still conversation happening.

Also, you're acting like you've never played with me before. You're getting upset with me for not having reads on D1, when it should be quite clear from our play together in the past that I generally don't have reads on D1. Why is this a problem this game, when it hasn't been in the past?

-Cerb

Ye but that doesn't mean you should shut down wagons.

Because in the past on day 1 you have have reads of some sort ffs.

Also, JaeReed, you wasted that item on that use? [sigh]

Is it a waste if it makes me as happy as I am right now? I think not.

I tossed up using it to control the Lieutenant somewhat but this was what I decided on. Something that would keep me smiling all of D1/N1 at least

Mechanically yes, it is a waste. However, the only thing it's useful for is denying someone the ability to vote(unless that is specifically an exception to the post restriction ). So, yeah, not a big deal.

Oh also, D&D: I don't know Mathblade very well. Why do you say he wouldn't poke such an active slot? Is this based on knowledge of his play, or is it just a general belief you have? There are other active slots that have been poked by people. Does that mean those pushing them are all unlikely to be scum?

-Cerb

It's a general belief I have.
No, the manner of how Math did it make me think he's town.

oh no, I seem to have slipped it up

what an unfortunate development

Terrible reaction
This has been discussed a lot while I was out but yeah looks like a scumslip happened and Menno and Space Cowboy are buddies

Why are we voting McMeno?

McMenno scumslipped in one of the PTs that he has access to another PT.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

VOTE: mcmenno

Voting for the person that Space Cowboy thought was scum is not helping your case.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Space Cowboy was also online at the time of the "slip," so it's not unreasonable that he asked the one other person who was online out of the group.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Koggz, you believe scum had two posting members of the Matrix PT at game start?

-Cerb

I believe it was you who said that alignment is not random, it's dependent on role drafts. Did you not consider the possibility that two scum happened to choose roles that were in the Matrix PT?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Ugh sorry. I was thinking that roles were chosen after alignments but they were designed to be assigned together (as evidenced by "scum choosing roles in the PT" when they didn't choose roles as scum). I agree with you.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

VOTE: karnos
We haven't used our mission reward yet, its something we wanted to discuss with everyone else
We can lock off one mission run from ever being used again.
We weren't sure of the best use for this

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks they should be town blocks as much as the Great and Powerful Trixie usually hates them. In this case the Great and Powerful Trixie thinks they work well.

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks that this is the reason for one of the rules in the original post.

If the group given is a town block then the rewards will almost certainly benefit town. Especially since it looks like the Party Leader makes the final decision so The Great and Powerful Trixie says it is likely the Lieutenant chooses the other reward. D&D correct me if The Great and Powerful Trixie is wrong.

Who would you put on a mission ABR?

Yes, we have the choice for the other reward, as Cakes said. We have the ability to permanently lock one mission from being run going forward. ABR's suggestion was to lock the mission that would break people from jail, his reasoning being that the sooner we block all ways we can break people out, the sooner we're able to see flips. (Honestly, I think the fastest way to do that is to break two people out of jail as soon as possible.) We still haven't chosen a mission to lock, so Cakes asked for thoughts on how best to utilize the reward. I don't think anyone has responded.

I haven't read the rest of Day 2 yet, will do so later today hopefully.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Yoyoyo doing a catchup now, I forgot to check back in here earlier

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Karnos, I didn't decide alone. Grovyle was against the check, Drixx was in the run (he infiltrated) but I don't remember him stating an opinion on who to check. I hashed it out with The Great and Powerful Trixie. It was between you or Worldzmine. It was set on a timer for 1 minute before night end in case you were town and scum had you targeted for a kill in order to make the kill attempt fail.

Okay, that is useful. We know grovyle and drixx were town. Either you or mathblade are scum. Thinking about it, it doesn't matter who suggested my name, it would have been obvious to frame the cop target regardless of who it was.

This makes no sense
If its a Framer that messed with you like you've been pushing, then "math or Jae must be scum" doesn't fit at all
You're just scum flailing

Who should be on the next missions?

Math, Jae, you, Koggz, random, us, Sooper
The pool of players is already pretty small which sucks

@D&D/ABR/Random is there any confirmation that the way to trigger the prison break is via a mission?

No, it's just a theory that we all agreed on

Wait guys I can gigure out how to prison break w/ missions

???

Also, in the interest of transparency, the bounty on WorldzMine is indeed a real bounty.

There is a reward, if he is lynched, for the fifth player on the wagon to vote for him. Doublevoting the following day or 1X bulletproof. So there is another reason to vig kill me, if you must, so that you can actually lynch WorldzMine later and collect the bounty. As far as I read my role, it doesn't matter if I am already dead, the reward should still occur.

I'll have moe time to post tomorrow, and I can go over more details of my role and various happenings in prison chat, if there is interest.

This looks like scum trying to create interest in a last ditch mislynch
Which is lol

Ok i think i kinda know what to do

Ill do arson, together with peregrinev and vedith (their stats are great)
Doubting about vedith here cuz i have him as a more null read

Abr, jae and math seem the towniest to me and abr requested something. I think ill let you go on demolitions

If this is ok, ill submit and we can move on

PV and Vedith are pretty questionable choices
Why those two?

I'm fine with vigging karnos. He can get out of jail if we lynch him.

The only problem I have with this is possible night bullshit like redirectors and scum docs being possible.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

"I put you on a timer to be copped."

Not a scumslip if they specifically set the trigger for a minute before night. And both Mathblade and Jaereed said this, so if one scumslipped about deadlines then the other did too. Also it makes no sense for the scum deadline to be different.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

"I put you on a timer to be copped."

Not a scumslip if they specifically set the trigger for a minute before night. And both Mathblade and Jaereed said this, so if one scumslipped about deadlines then the other did too. Also it makes no sense for the scum deadline to be different.

-Daenerys

So you think it's possible that Jaereed received the reward for successful mission before the mission was started?

I just don't understand how that makes sense to you, these time travel paradoxes don't actually work in real life.

JaeReed picked between the mission rewards for this mission.

JaeReed could give control of Mr. Johnson to a particular player. That player may not be sent on any particular mission and cannot be a party leader or lieutenant in any way.

OR

JaeReed may publicly cop a player. This option may ONLY be selected once per game. This player that is publicly copped cannot be killed that night.

They picked to publically cop a player.

Karnos is confirmed to be aligned with Aztechnology or Lonestar and not the Shadowrunners.

Night continues for 1 more minute. Adventure PTs will be locked then.

I'll be resolving all night actions after I get some sleep.

One minute before night ends was when the copping occurred.

Did a miswording really confuse you that much?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

UNVOTE:

What are your reads? Your recent posting has contributed nothing.

So who are we lynching today?

Why don't you answer this yourself?

ffs people you need to have independent reads

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Karnos, I didn't decide alone. Grovyle was against the check, Drixx was in the run (he infiltrated) but I don't remember him stating an opinion on who to check. I hashed it out with The Great and Powerful Trixie. It was between you or Worldzmine. It was set on a timer for 1 minute before night end in case you were town and scum had you targeted for a kill in order to make the kill attempt fail.

Okay, that is useful. We know grovyle and drixx were town. Either you or mathblade are scum. Thinking about it, it doesn't matter who suggested my name, it would have been obvious to frame the cop target regardless of who it was.

This makes no sense
If its a Framer that messed with you like you've been pushing, then "math or Jae must be scum" doesn't fit at all
You're just scum flailing

Can you elaborate on why it doesn't fit from your point of view?

Who should be on the next missions?

Math, Jae, you, Koggz, random, us, Sooper
The pool of players is already pretty small which sucks

You townread both of the people you were in a mission with last night despite scum sabotaging it? Can you go into that? Do you think scum sabotaging it was something they could submit during the night that happened instantly, or something lined up during the dayphase on D1?

I think it's more likely to be something that is invoked before night starts, yes. Just given timing issues if it's during the mission running (what happens if the scum on the mission don't get to the thread before the votes are in? Does the mod have to wait? That seems a little unfair).

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Look at my posts near the end of D1. I had *no clue* what was going on and was answering interesting post in real time. My thoughts continually changed as I got more caught up and the progression of my thoughts were plainly laid out. If I was scum I wouldn't of did that because I would of obviously caught up with all the game changing things that happened in the scum thread before posting.

It shows clearly that I'm uniformed and that points to one alignment and one alignment only--

town

.

The series of posts you made is easy to fake and not a "townslip" by any means (plus, uninformed could just mean you deliberately didn't read scumchat first). Then you keep trying to push your own posts as townslips when they're not, which is different than if someone else pointed it out and was townreading you for that reason and then pushed it. But you're the one pushing it to be confirming you as town so I'm less inclined to believe it. And it's getting pretty annoying when that's all you can talk about.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Night continues for 1 more minute.

Deadline was 3 hours prior.

Look, I see that some people are confused (or are scum faking confusion), so let me explain it.

Deadline occurs, all actions must be submit by that time or they are invalid. Mod reads through all the PMs and chat based actions, puts them in a spreadsheet or paper, and figures out what effects what. Then the mod actually has to apply the effects in game. ALL THIS TAKES TIME. You can't just have deadline at 4:00 and re-open the thread for day at 4:01.

The whole "Night continues for 1 more minute. " is a red herring, because night continuing had nothing to do with the deadline to submit actions, the deadline was several hours prior.

The mod's post specifically said that night actions would be resolved when they woke up - much later than the post where JR copped you.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Look at my posts near the end of D1. I had *no clue* what was going on and was answering interesting post in real time. My thoughts continually changed as I got more caught up and the progression of my thoughts were plainly laid out. If I was scum I wouldn't of did that because I would of obviously caught up with all the game changing things that happened in the scum thread before posting.

It shows clearly that I'm uniformed and that points to one alignment and one alignment only--

town

.

The series of posts you made is easy to fake and not a "townslip" by any means (plus, uninformed could just mean you deliberately didn't read scumchat first). Then you keep trying to push your own posts as townslips when they're not, which is different than if someone else pointed it out and was townreading you for that reason and then pushed it. But you're the one pushing it to be confirming you as town so I'm less inclined to believe it. And it's getting pretty annoying when that's all you can talk about.

-Daenerys

I listed the reasons why it's not fake in a post earlier. I'm "pushing it" because it proves that I'm town. There's nothing else to say on the matter. I think you all *want* me to be scum for reasons that aren't clear to me, but it's whatever. This game is ridiculous imo.

I didn't say we were scumreading you, it's just annoying when that's all you can say and it doesn't make you towny to point out your own slip.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Math is probs town. I wouldn't be surprised if karnos was distancing space cowboy. Vedith could be scum

Why Vedith? I liked the way he pointed out that Yume was posting earlier in the thread. Discussed it with grovyle and that's apparently a towntell for her. Which means he took someone mislynchable off the board for no reason if he's scum, unless there's enough people here that know that about Yume to make it worthwhile to do.

I'll look into the distancing theory.

JaeReed, can you point me to where Vedith called Yume town because she was posting?

I agree with the "no reason to cross off an easy mislynch" part, just not sure where you are getting the actual crossing off from.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

On the bright side, Yume's posting... So there's a positive.

@D&D It was this. It's very heavily implied there, especially after I mentioned to FB last night that I found it weird that Yume was posting since I played with Yume twice now, and she has been replaced as both alignments due to inactivity (once on the fallout shelter in Fractals, and once in yuri mafia on here. Once as scum, once as town). FB said that it was a towntell for Yume, so that put this post in a "well Yume's town" light for me. I can't see the scum motivation for Vedith to post this.

Worth noting that FB said it was weird that Vedith didn't gun for him. If you want me to paraphrase everything in the mission PT I can do so but tbh I'd

really

prefer not to bc I'm lazy as fuck. But I will if asked, for anyone who isn't confscum.

Okay. Isn't the fact that Grovyle was town and also noticed it enough to cancel out Vedith's towniness from doing this, though?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I apologize for this. I did not mean to be an ass and I feel like this crossed a line. I'm going to bed; obviously I need to.

Don't worry about it, get your sleep... but if you are still reading, please go ahead and vote me. I want to get things moving and by prison suicide I can flip and see you burn

Sometimes you talk to Jaereed and Mathblade like they are town.. But then turn around and call them scum. If you are so convinced that Jaereed is scum, then why wouldn't you trust Mathblade's vig shot to flip you and push for a lynch on scum instead of someone you (supposedly) know is town?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

On the bright side, Yume's posting... So there's a positive.

@D&D It was this. It's very heavily implied there, especially after I mentioned to FB last night that I found it weird that Yume was posting since I played with Yume twice now, and she has been replaced as both alignments due to inactivity (once on the fallout shelter in Fractals, and once in yuri mafia on here. Once as scum, once as town). FB said that it was a towntell for Yume, so that put this post in a "well Yume's town" light for me. I can't see the scum motivation for Vedith to post this.

Worth noting that FB said it was weird that Vedith didn't gun for him. If you want me to paraphrase everything in the mission PT I can do so but tbh I'd

really

prefer not to bc I'm lazy as fuck. But I will if asked, for anyone who isn't confscum.

Okay. Isn't the fact that Grovyle was town and also noticed it enough to cancel out Vedith's towniness from doing this, though?

-Daenerys

Honestly I think that what is going on is scumplosion just a matter of figuring out where. I got called into work early will read rest of thread later.

Interested in hearing more about this (also did you mean to quote my post?).

-Daenerys

Dammit

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I don't trust mathblade or randomidget

Why the sudden turnaround on us and random? As far as I can recall you were townreading them and scumreading us.

Also, how is math scum?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

The runs available are Arson, Bank Heist, Demolitions, Dossier Search, Fetch Quests, Getting the Gang Together, Kidnapping, Murder, and Scouting.

Conducting a Seance mission has opened up. There is still one locked run.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I never said I was townreading randomidget. By the way she posts, shes scum.

Okay. What specifically about their posts are scummy? And can you answer the other two parts of my questions?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Only one public cop can be chosen as a reward for the whole game.

The other reward was being able to block off a mission from being run going forward.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Arson and demolitions

Since most of the players im taking are good at the things i think are needed

Mathblade-PV-koggz go on arson
Me, jae and abr on demolitions.

Can i submit that?

Nah don't put PV on a mission

I think one of ABR/KlingonCelt is scum and the other is derp town.

I find it very suspicious that they are trying to lynch the player that could vig Karnos if we don't lynch Karnos. I also find it suspicious they do so without arguments. Both of them know I am utter shit under pressure. I ask anyone scumreading me to post reasons why. I have done nothing but be forthright and honest.

Suspicion of me is okay. In fact I welcome the scrutiny. But until we figure out what we are doing with Karnos lynching the player with the gun is a bad idea. Even if I didn't have a gun it would still be downright horrible. So bring on your reasons. But if all you have is a desire to vote me without being able to articulate why you might want to check your role PM. It probably says scum or scum puppet on it.

Back to the matter at hand: what are we doing with Karnos?

This mirrors my thoughts
Leaving Math off the mission is fine
But lynching the only person we know can vig Karnos tonight is completely stupid
Either we lynch Karnos or we lynch someone besides Math so Math can shoot Karnos tonight

VOTE: mathblade

A lynch I can get behind. I'm a bit torn because it could be scum!JaeReed instead, but lets see where this goes.

A thought that came to mind: did anyone else observe mathblade being awarded this "gun"? Wouldn't it be funny if the whole thing was a big gambit, based on mathblade being scum, thinking they can just use their faction night kill to kill whoever and claim using the "gun"?

And the confirmed scum jumping on is really awful.

VOTE: Vote Mathblade

As is this

Mathblade should shoot karnos tonight. We should lynch somebody else if not Mathblade.

^ this

I would be fine lynching PV, saw that brought up earlier
-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I feel that all the mathblade votes are protest votes because some players are being quite self-absorbed and difficult to interact with without losing patience.

Is this why you're voting him?

Seriously abr, just stop and think.

Karnos is CRUSADING for mathblade's lynch. And karnos is about as townie as a godfather who failed his secret wincon, becoming a serial killer that gets culted.

Bussing you say? Karnos crusades for a scum lynch and gains towncred cuz why would he...
BUT WE DONT GET FLIPS
So it's the worst move ever, if karnos doesn't die tonight he gets lynched tomorrow

Now if mathblade is town and karnos is scum (it is like that)
Karnos can not get vigged, spread more wifom D3 AND gets a free mislynch.


Draw your conclusions.
-S

This guy gets it

I have nothing more to say. Still think Math is town, still think karnos needs a bullet. Lynch me tomorrow for the halfway to flips condition.

Math was not on the immediate radar for Drixx or grovyle so they had no reason to kill either of them. As SK that would be shooting themselves in the foot, so no. At least I can see a little more of ABR's thought process there now.

Why PV? Froot gave reasons at least, does anyone else have anything?

He's playing to his lurk-ass scum meta and has contributed nothing

VOTE: peregrinev
We can rope Math tomorrow if Karnos isn't dead

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Drixx my biggest townread.

Okay.

Significance?

What are your reasons?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Confession time:

I killed Drixx

Reasonably Rational

I didn't want to claim the kill immediately because I was afraid someone would stupidly quick hammer me, given the fake guilty, but as we are approaching deadline I feel this information must be shared. Obviously it was a terrible play given the flip, but I thought there was something very fake about his scum hunting in day 1. I was also limited to matrix participants- mcmenno, who was already in prison, or randommidget who I thought was a bit more likely to be town than RR. I always try to use my powers ASAP in case scum kills me at night, so I used my 1 shot matrix vig on night one to kill the most likely scum IMO.

I shot town, I know this makes me look even worse, but I had to share this because I don't want town going down the wrong path assuming it's multi-ball or that there is a serial killer. (Yes, I mentioned those possibilities in my posts earlier, simply to point out the contradiction of some players who assumed it was multi-ball when it was convenient for their argument)

Almost certainly there is only one scum team, they killed

grovyle

This sounds awful, if there was still any doubt he was scum

Don't have time to read, but ABR has left the Astral PT.

My understanding is that since he has left it, he can no longer be affected by things that can affect people in the Astral PT.

It really sounds like he knows something's up or something's coming. Wouldn't think too much of it, considering it is ABR, but suddenly he has a hard-on for me.

Willing to toss his ass into jail for that combination.
Willing to toss Yume into jail for also doing crap in the PT.

And also looking at Karnos vig thing, if the Matrix is the science PT, then ABR is even worse.

Vote: ABR

This looks like OMGUS

That said
Everyone voting mathblade is voting terribly and anti town
Everyone voting abr is voting terribly
Everyone voting PV is voting terribly.
I think nobody is voting jae so thats fine.

Move to any player that is not one of the above, or D&D, or karnos.

That means yume, klingon, WORLDZ, random are all okay votes.
WORLDZ s the best vote.

-S

Why is PV town?
Lynching the empty Yume slot is stupid
Klingon is rather active and is not playing like she did as scum in Saga and Bloodborne

I'd be ok lynching Worldz or Random but PV is fitting his scum meta and his OMGUS on ABR was terrible.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Why do you think it sounds awful?

I think Worldz has played the scummiest, the bounty isn't strong enough evidence to make me think that karnos and Worldz aren't scum together.

The choice of PV seems pretty arbitrary and I'm concerned that ABR's suggested him as an alternative because I'm also uncomfortable with ABR's play.

-Froot

Because Drixx is an awful target to vig ever
Vigs should always be used on lurkers, i;e PV

karnos getting desperate

^

We're probably going to nolynch because no one cares about this game -_-
Pls put your votes down somewhere with a wagon

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Because Drixx is an awful target to vig ever
Vigs should always be used on lurkers, i;e PV

PV wasn't in the matrix. The lack of attention reflects poorly on you.

I mean, you felt you needed to use your vig shot on Night 1, the night when you have the least info, because .... ?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Also you claimed like a billion pages INTO the day in the middle of those spammy back and forth arguments, don't blame Cakes for not remembering the details. You should have claimed the shot as soon as day started because we wasted god knows how long thinking it was multiball for some reason.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Or we could not follow the ABR derp train.

[sarcasm] Let's vote the person who confirmed scum is voting for. That sounds soooo smart. [/sarcasm]

Worldz should be the lynch today.

So you think karnos set a bounty on his own buddy?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Trust me, D&D. We're doing the right thing. This is as much what you wanted as what I want. Let's get PV lynched today and karnos killed tonight and then adjust for tomorrow.

We're not against a PV lynch. In fact I think our vote is there. I don't get how you were all about scum!Math and now you're on his side though.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Uh... can you explain that?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

WTF ARE YOU GUYS DOING
There's confscum pushing this wagon, PV is obvscum but is being impossible to put votes on and is also on the wagon, lurker Random is on the wagon. That's half the wagon with shady af votes.
I think Worldz is town just because of how awful this wagon is

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Even if Karnos's vote is disregarded, the wagon still stinks because it's a counter to obvious scum.

What content is PV providing Math? He's been OMGUSing and posting fluff from what I see

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

He doesn't take strong stances like this as scum this early. He uses cautious words like "think".

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p7926610

That is from Mass Effect.

PV is still a lurker but their post count is already 10 higher than all of Mass Effect. And PV wasn't lynched til like day a billion and a half.

Have you ever seen PV games outside of mass effect?
Look at Borderlands/Street Fighter. There's a huge, obvious difference between his games.

We are not spoof.

PV is town because
- his tone sounds genuine.
- his 'fuck off abr you dont know what you are doing' is a town reaction.


538 and 539 are risky as scum.
590 is good because he gives something few ppl give: REASONS
From 1101 on he cuts through karnos' bullshit. I like that.
And his latest post do have content and theyre trying to wipe the shit out of everyone's eyes.

There's nothing risky about those posts
He's given reasoning for reads as scum before
"cutting through the bullshit" is just reiterating what everyone has already accused Karnos of
His recent posts have no content

@D&D: why is PV obvscum?
The confscum was on the PV wagon as well. For quite some time. Is random scum because he lurks? I dont think that AI. Dont get me wrong, im not townreading him, but him being on the wagon isnt fishy at all. I find it way worse that people join the PV wagon without being given a case, and without giving reasons themselves. Thats opportunistic sheeping.

Because this is just like how he has played as scum before and people are giving literally every excuse possible to avoid voting him, while going to every single other counterwagon

a random lynch is OK, but definitely not what I'd prefer.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I still believe that giving reasons not to vote is better than asking for votes without reasons.

I haven't played with him, and personally I kind of have issues with using activity as tells. True, they can be right, but the moment something irl happens it becomes unreliable. I could say yume was force-replaced out in hunger games mafia after 3 prods, and she was scum. But that itn't enough to base a case on imo
Meta can be used to support your case, not to be a case on itself [/rant]

Do you think everyone refusing to vote PV and trying to join the counterwagons is scum?


-S

PV is a special case, metaing activity works really well on him.
Yume doesn't work that way, because she always flakes.

Karnos hammer looks bad, hope this flips scum :/

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Shadowrunners are the term for town.

McMenno privately put Space Cowboy in jail (dayvig?) during day 1, then was lynched. They both are in jail (no flips). Grovyle and Drixx have flipped town (killed night 1). The missions on night 1 were chosen by Jaereed and I'm not sure what the first one was, but it resulted in Jaereed being able to either choose who would next have control of the missions, or publicly cop a player. They chose to cop karnos, who flipped scum (there is only one faction, I think?). He claimed the Drixx kill as a vig approximately 9 days into the day phase. koggz was modkilled day 2 for quoting their role PM accidentally.

Spoiler: Grovyle abilities

DOVE - 1-SHOT LOVELY NEIGHBORIZER. YOU MAY NEIGHBORIZE TWO PLAYERS FOR THE NEXT DAY OR NIGHT CYCLE. THEY ALSO BECOME LOVERS. YOU DO NOT GET ACCESS TO THIS CHAT.
CHEETAH - 1 SHOT COMMUTER. NORMAL VARIANT
SNAKE - SWAP YOURSELF IN THE PLACE OF THE NON-PARTY LEADER RUNNER ONCE ON A RUN. 1 SHOT
OWL - YOU MAY SEND A MESSAGE TO ANOTHER PLAYER DURING THE DAY INSTEAD OF THE NIGHT. 1 SHOT

Spoiler: Drixx abilities

SNEAKING IN AND OUT OF DANGER - YOU CAN JUMP INTO EITHER OF THE ASTRAL OR MATRIX PTS FOR THE NIGHT. YOU CAN JUMP INTO PRISON ONCE ONLY AND CANNOT BE IN TWO OF THE ASTRAL/MATRIX/PRISON AT THE SAME TIME. PT JUMPS ARE ELECTED DURING THE DAY AND DONE AT NIGHT. IF YOU ARE IN PRISON DURING A PRISON BREAK, YOU HAVE A 50% CHANCE OF DYING.
YOU CAN'T TELL ME I'M NOT WANTED - YOU CAN ADD YOURSELF TO ANY MISSION WHERE 5 RUNNERS WERE NOT SELECTED, BYPASSING ANY RULES REGARDING CREW FORMATION. YOU MAY DO THIS ONE TIME ONLY.

-daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Hi FA/House!

what is this :

WorldzMine is Accused of Being Scum

and why the party members of night 2 are not yet outed?

Karnos claimed to be the source of that.
I don't remember exactly, but I think some sort of buff would have been placed on the people who voted Worldz, BP I think.

-dragoms

[Daenerys and Dragons]

You gonna answer the question I asked about PV meta D&D? Specifically for a link to that game?

my bad
game where he was obvtown as town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65280
game where he was obvscum as scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=67071

Who are we looking at as buddies with karnos?

PV, random (who is lynched), maybe klingon

Leave math and PV off the run and put FA and House on it

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

So you are willing to take 2 slots that havent been active until now?

Ill see for the stats. Maybe.

Pedit: fuck off. 1 of mathblade/pv is coming. I have my reads and you dont have to fucking dictate yours.
I only took you, D&D due to lack of good townreads. If anyone else is going off the mission, it's you.

Your PV townread sucks ass man

You gonna answer the question I asked about PV meta D&D? Specifically for a link to that game?

my bad
game where he was obvtown as town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65280
game where he was obvscum as scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=67071

Who are we looking at as buddies with karnos?

PV, random (who is lynched), maybe klingon

Leave math and PV off the run and put FA and House on it

-dragons

I'd rather switch house out with you.

obv you don't want to be kicked off the mission

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Scum put a bunch of crap on our mission (added an extra guard, made the mission risky so that physical violence made a risk of going to prison)
PV volunteered to fight the guards and failed, which is how he got sent to prison

We tried to sneak around after that but we failed. The only thing the fail did was give House a vig shot which doesn't really make sense as a failure but it was good so we rolled with it.
Math isn't cleared since Karnos was a traitor apparently but we still feel he is town.

We know who House targeted, so if they claim it then they should be conftown. If they don't then confscum.

I (not sure about lilith) think Klingon is scum now. I also have a scum lean on Sooper now for their terrible PV defense (House also had a scumread on them), but really need to see PV's flip.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Actually I'm not sure
Was Karnos told who the other scum were? It doesn't say if he was or not in his role PM

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Ok yeah Worldz is definitely not scum
Karnos was all over that push
Means random is probably town then from Karnos's lolhammer :/

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Collision.

D&D what do you mean you know who House targeted? Like with the gun? Or his recruit?

With the recruit
He claimed it to us in the run PT after it ended

We realize this looks rather terrible, but think about it this way: why would we claim all of this and make ourselves look super suspicious if we were scum?

D&D you must use your ability to remove the chance for bringing back people from prison now

We don't have this ability?

Frozen exited astral PT 1min before night lol. House vannilized me and said that if he died, D&D was scum because they knew he was gonna recruit me and make me masons with him. Anyway now im just vanilla and i didnt join any pt since house is dead.

My ability was to make people go to the top of the RAS. I used n1 on drixx and n2 on mathblade so she could kill karnos without anyone interfering with her.

Can confirm this, so abr is conf town I think

And you have been on a mission with FA last night, as well.

@ABR: you were supposed to be on the run. There should be a mod message confirming that there has been a mod error soon.
@D&D: why am I scummy for defending my townread? House also never stated a scumread on me, so that's invalid.

-S

Because he was obvious scum
He did in the run PT

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Scum put a bunch of crap on our mission (added an extra guard, made the mission risky so that physical violence made a risk of going to prison)
PV volunteered to fight the guards and failed, which is how he got sent to prison

We tried to sneak around after that but we failed. The only thing the fail did was give House a vig shot which doesn't really make sense as a failure but it was good so we rolled with it.
Math isn't cleared since Karnos was a traitor apparently but we still feel he is town.

We know who House targeted, so if they claim it then they should be conftown. If they don't then confscum.

I (not sure about lilith) think Klingon is scum now. I also have a scum lean on Sooper now for their terrible PV defense (House also had a scumread on them), but really need to see PV's flip.

-dragons

Is there a reason for suspecting me?

No, there isn't.

I do mainly from POE and the fact Karnos conpletely avoided interacting with or pushing you iirc

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

We can disable the prison break mission, sure. But that won't stop Jaereed's ability to break out from prison or whatever else is out there, so it effectively doesn't do anything for flips until the other conditions are met.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

As Cakes said, ABR should be confirmed town here, UNLESS scum had a way to view the mission PT. i'm not sure how likely that is.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

House said in the mission PT something along the lines of "Sooper led the wagon on karnos and then led the wagon on randomnidget as soon as karnos lost steam." (As reasoning for scumreading sooper)

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

As Cakes said, ABR should be confirmed town here, UNLESS scum had a way to view the mission PT. i'm not sure how likely that is.

-Daenerys

Its likly

and it means your scum

You just said yourself that ABR could only know if we were both scum. Does ABR seem like scum to you?

We can disable the prison break mission, sure. But that won't stop Jaereed's ability to break out from prison or whatever else is out there, so it effectively doesn't do anything for flips until the other conditions are met.

-Daenerys

K none of the members in our pt is scum mate with D&D this is for sure.

don't you dare touch any missions without claiming it first

Jesus fucking christ. We even ASKED. IN THIS THREAD. WHICH MISSION TO DISABLE.

This is pissing me off.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Collision.

D&D what do you mean you know who House targeted? Like with the gun? Or his recruit?

With the recruit
He claimed it to us in the run PT after it ended

We realize this looks rather terrible, but think about it this way: why would we claim all of this and make ourselves look super suspicious if we were scum?

D&D you must use your ability to remove the chance for bringing back people from prison now

We don't have this ability?

Frozen exited astral PT 1min before night lol. House vannilized me and said that if he died, D&D was scum because they knew he was gonna recruit me and make me masons with him. Anyway now im just vanilla and i didnt join any pt since house is dead.

My ability was to make people go to the top of the RAS. I used n1 on drixx and n2 on mathblade so she could kill karnos without anyone interfering with her.

Can confirm this, so abr is conf town I think

And you have been on a mission with FA last night, as well.

@ABR: you were supposed to be on the run. There should be a mod message confirming that there has been a mod error soon.
@D&D: why am I scummy for defending my townread? House also never stated a scumread on me, so that's invalid.

-S

Because he was obvious scum
He did in the run PT

Why would scum offer to be imprisoned? There would be no guarantee of breaking him out. The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks D&D is desperate.

He did not offer to be imprisoned. Nobody knew that that was the consequence of the action that he took.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

You just said yourself that ABR could only know if we were both scum. Does ABR seem like scum to you?

Its not vise versa

ABR cant be scum unless if your scum. you being scum or not has nothing to do with him

don't bring logical fallacies

It follows directly from what I said, that ABR is confirmed town unless scum had a way to view the mission pt. you responded that they must have since we are scum, so it's not illogical to assume you are also refuting the first part of my sentence. Logical fallacy my ass.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

It follows directly from what I said, that ABR is confirmed town unless scum had a way to view the mission pt. you responded that they must have since we are scum, so it's not illogical to assume you are also refuting the first part of my sentence. Logical fallacy my ass.

No I never said he is scum. I said its likly for scum to had access to that pt ; not becuase of ABR stuff but becuase of House death.

You don't find it odd house died over everyone else in the game right after they claimed mason in a pt your claiming they got a vig shot in ?

I find it really odd

plus there is no alive people from your adventure pt anymore. Are this all coincidences?

I really don't know how to explain House's death, or the fact that he didn't take his vig shot.

But there was really NO reason for us to even tell you guys about that vig shot since nobody alive would know about it, unless scum could view the pt.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

And even then it's not like they could mention it.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

ABR, did you receive an item last night? (Don't say what it is, just confirm whether you received it please.)

-daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I really don't know how to explain House's death, or the fact that he didn't take his vig shot.

But there was really NO reason for us to even tell you guys about that vig shot since nobody alive would know about it, unless scum could view the pt.

PV is still semi alive

lieing is scum claiming anyway. and talking about you told some the truth don't make them confirmed or make you townier.

Town!PV wouldn't have known about the shot because he left the PT before it happened. So really we are the only one alive that knows. And there is just no reason to bring up something that makes us look even worse.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I don't care if you told us something that makes you look even worse. see my scum me claim in gitsuo , and Stop this Bullshit now please.

If your town then act like one and give me a townread instead of this crap emotional traps your putting here. I don't care if your the source of info that made you look a bit more worse than you were been looked before that. All I care is that you look really bad.

I am TRYING to do things here but you started arguing with me so back off.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

So let The Great and Powerful Trixie get this straight:

1) You said House had a vig: Why is the Great and Powerful Trixie still standing? The Great and Powerful Trixie was scumread heavily by both ABR and House.
2) JaeReed got a public cop for winning and an ability you supposedly get to make a mission type ineligible for winning. You expect The Great and Powerful Trixie and others to believe that LOSING House got a vig. That makes no sense.
3) Kills take place before recruits in natural action resolution so you want to out someone who can't be fucking hit with anything because House died. So NO ONE would claim and then you could proclaim a random townie conf scum.

Copy
Hide
Bus
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect


That is the NAR. So you want someone to claim a physical impossibility.

4)You were on both missions scum tried to fuck up...Gee what a concept. What is more likely you are lying scum and making up shit. No one can verify what happened on that mission because they are all dead or imprisoned. A vig at this juncture with 10 alive at the point House had it would be insane. That would be almost as powerful as the public cop for LOSING.

The Great and Powerful Trixie has a deep craving for cinnamon rolls and is going to feed the Great and Powerful Trixie's mouth hole with it instead of this stupidity that is this game.

House didn't mention you as a scumread at the end of the night. He only talked about Sooper, karnos and PV. Also it doesn't look like he took a shot, or if he did it didn't go through.

I don't know why we got such a reward for losing but we did.

I believe House's action went through because it was a vanillaizer as well. So the vanillaizing happened before any kill.

I don't think a vig reward, even for losing, is as powerful as you think it is.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I AM WAITING FOR ABR TO CONFIRM THAT HERECEIVED AN ITEM BEFORE I CLAIM.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

VOTE: karnos
We haven't used our mission reward yet, its something we wanted to discuss with everyone else
We can lock off one mission run from ever being used again.
We weren't sure of the best use for this

-dragons

Please the Great and Powerful Trixie is confused how can the Supposedly victorious D&D not be able to stop the prison break mission. Please explain this contradiction to the Great and Powerful Trixie because the Great And Powerful Trixie thinks this is more bullshit.

Also please note that ABR is able to confirm our reward so this has never been bullshit. As I already said, we don't have the ability to stop all the methods of prison escape from being used. Until the other ones are used or unable to be used, us using the ability effectively does nothing except prevent us from being able to choose who we do take out.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Fine then.

WE GIVE OUT GUNS TO PEOPLE. AS IN VIG SHOTS.

I hope that's good enough for this stubborn af town.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

1) we gave guns to our strong townreads both nights. First math, then ABR, who also would have been easily confirmable once House told us his result (he gave us a code).
2) this is why a vig shot as a losing reward is not all that powerful.

Oh also "hammer." I forgot to say that. Not sure if cakes did.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Actually, no.

PV is pretty town from the astral PT and him going to prison.

Let's break him out of prison tonight.

Frozen, pick me, jaereed, and worldz for the "putting the band back together" run. We're gonna free PV since hes town.

As I already said, we didn't know that him going to prison was the result of the action he took. I think it's NAI.

Frozen exited astral PT 1min before night lol. House vannilized me and said that if he died, D&D was scum because they knew he was gonna recruit me and make me masons with him. Anyway now im just vanilla and i didnt join any pt since house is dead.

So House told you through a message?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

The missions were sabotaged as soon as they begun, it wasn't something that was triggered mid-mission
Likely scum have a way of messing with missions remotely.

@d&d
I don't believe you.
You say house scumread us because we went for karnos and when that didnt work for random? Read again. Karnos was confscum. Anyone not pushing that is just playing bad. Then it was decided he needed to be vigged, so we went to worldz, not random. Only after abr and i agreed worldz nor PV would be the lynch, we went to random, AS SUGGESTED BY ABR. I don't think house said this, he would have read better.

PV wasnt obvscum. If he was, give us reasons of why he was. We never heard any, so we are openminded regarding that. Otherwise, we get him back.

You would have to argue that with House, not us. That's not why I think you could be scum.
I gave reasons yesterday and you basically ignored them.

Also since this wasn't said
The vig shot wasn't usable until tomorrow night, so that's why House didn't use it last night.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Frozen exited astral PT 1min before night lol. House vannilized me and said that if he died, D&D was scum because they knew he was gonna recruit me and make me masons with him. Anyway now im just vanilla and i didnt join any pt since house is dead.

My ability was to make people go to the top of the RAS. I used n1 on drixx and n2 on mathblade so she could kill karnos without anyone interfering with her.

I forgot to ask this

Where did House tell you this? What PT?

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

The missions were sabotaged as soon as they begun, it wasn't something that was triggered mid-mission
Likely scum have a way of messing with missions remotely.

Was the night 1 Lieutenant mission like this? was it sabotaged from the start?

Yes

Thank you FA i was about to say that

@D&D i iso'd you. I can't seem to find any argument that says we are scum. Could you quote please?

It's not a very strong scumread, it's based on your weird defense of PV in lieu of evidence suggesting him being scum and the fact you instead were fine with the random wagon, who is now pretty clearly town since he got lolhammered by scum.
Really need to see the PV and Random flips to flesh it out, could be completely wrong or right depending on those.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Whoops, I just went back and double checked and the setback on the first mission wasn't triggered until after the first challenge, my bad.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

There was definitely evidence suggesting him being scum, mainly the fact his play was a mirror of his scum meta.
The push barely got any traction. I think PV got like 4 votes at the tip of his wagon? That's a sign he is scum, not town. No one sheeped there either, unless I'm forgetting something.

Because you were the leader yesterday and thus the main driver behind where the wagons and votes went. Like your disapproval of the PV wagon is a major reason it failed.

I really don't think Karnos would have rejoined the Worldz wagon like 3 times if he was a buddy.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Take a step back and listen to what you are saying.

PV is scum.
He sabotaged the mission he was on.
He then volunteered to undergo whatever he HIMSELF did to the mission.
In short, he imprisoned himself.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense.

-S

1) we didn't know that he would be imprisoned for sure. I thought that he would simply not be active in the rest of the mission but would return after.
2) PV actually wanted our slot to do the thing that sent him to prison, and then House got PV to agree to go because of his stats. But again, refer to #1.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@d&d
I don't believe you.
You say house scumread us because we went for karnos and when that didnt work for random? Read again. Karnos was confscum. Anyone not pushing that is just playing bad. Then it was decided he needed to be vigged, so we went to worldz, not random. Only after abr and i agreed worldz nor PV would be the lynch, we went to random, AS SUGGESTED BY ABR. I don't think house said this, he would have read better.

Unfortunately we can't quote from the mission PT. i paraphrased as best as I could and he said your wagon movement was scummy.

PV wasnt obvscum. If he was, give us reasons of why he was. We never heard any, so we are openminded regarding that. Otherwise, we get him back.

house was also scumreading PV.

Also, everyone seems to believe house got killed because he claimed mason. Even though that is very likely, scum could also just have killed house. It worries me that everyone is breaking their heads over crazy theories but it could also be really simple.

You do realize that this is actually a point in our slot's favor?

@everyone: did any of your actions get blocked or redirected? I don't need to know what, just a no or a yes. FA and jae can confirm this.

No, since ABR received our gun.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I really, really don't think scum need to be on a mission to sabotage it.

House claimed to us at the very end of the mission, way after PV went to jail.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Because our first mission was us, ABR, and random. We know we are town, random is probably town from the way karnos hammered, and we think ABR is town. Therefore someone off the mission must have sabotaged it.

Also, House claimed to us in the first place because he townread us.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

There's still a possibility that scum were able to see the mission PTs.

And I do have to agree with sooper that house may not have even been killed because of being a mason villanaizer.

And now that Abr admitted that House explained his night action in a message, if he were scum he would know what to claim to us in order to seem like the action had been performed and succeeded (since it would have failed on scum).

I don't think he is confirmed town at all. But I still think he is town.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Explain to me how he should be conftown.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Explain to me how he should be conftown.

the scum sabotaged your mission after part 1 that means they were there to cast something during mission or they had access to it. Adventure spy is just to much utility.

Where is worldz

Honestly when the sabotage happened doesn't really mean anything to me.

It could be that scum can choose what stage of the mission they want to sabotage before the mission starts or at some point during the mission even, without being able to see the thread. It could be that it's been predetermined by the mod which stage the sabotage occurs at if the scum decide to sabotage. It could even be that it's not scum sabotaging the missions and instead either the missions themselves or specific people are predetermined to be sabotaged (but that's the most unlikely).

That also still really doesn't explain how ABR is supposed to be conftown.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Your attack of his personal belief of an existing mechanic is scummy because if anything setup spec in itself is NAI.

Both town and scum have reason to logic out possible/probable mechanics and trying to cast shade on it is manipulative as shit.

I also did setup spec on a game where I was familiar with the flavor to try to gain an advantage/insight on player alignments (FFX AU), and you'll never guess what alignment I was!

Again this is misrep.

I do not have a problem with setup spec. I love it.

What I do have a problem with is when that is not accurately represented which brings me back to post one and makes me suspicious of depending upon what he did in the astral.

I would ask you to stop fallaciously accusing me of misrepping you if you believe I'm misinterpreting you, but it's your job as scum to discredit and doubtcasting anyone who has you nailed.

The Great and Powerful Trixie balks at your suggestion House did not scumread The Great and Powerful Trixie at the end of the night.

However for supposition who did House scumread at the end of the night according to you?

I already said this: Sooper, karnos, and PV.

He didn't say anything about you.

I don't know why we'd have any reason to lie about this. What exactly do we gain from pretending he didn't scumread you when he stated he did in thread? He (according to Cakes because I didn't know) wasn't able to take his vig shot last night anyway, so it literally means nothing that he didn't shoot you. He may have even deliberately not mentioned you to us in case he did intend to shoot you later. I have no idea.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@jae or math : anyone tried to sabotage your mission in night 1?

I don't think our mission was sabotaged N1. At least, we weren't informed of it so I'd say it's a safe bet.

I have townreads on Sooper, FA, MathBlade.

I'm not sure Karnos' hammer and wagon movements should even be analyzed yesterday. Math might know more about the validity of that theory. He was confscum from daystart so anything he did is subject to wifom. The only thing that isn't is the bounty on Worldz and his not knowing whether it was better for him to be shot or lynched. I believe those were all strategic decisions from his side. The bounty could go either way, and should be looked at with his weird behaviour regarding whether to be shot or lynched.

Potential reasons for wanting to be shot:
- If he could get a mislynch on Worldz then he would be bulletproof and he'd be able to get Math mislynched. (most likely)
- If he lynched scum Worldz then the scumteam might be able to save him with a redirect or something to get Math mislynched.
- If Math scum then it gets them towncred for shooting him. (most unlikely)

Potential reasons for switching to wanting to be lynched:
- If Worldz town he realized if he got shot during the night then he's cleared him.
- If Math scum he realized the shot wouldn't get towncred due to him being a traitor. (unlikely because he'd be thinking about this from the start)
- If Worldz scum he decided against flat out bussing because that's two for the price of one if scum don't have a way to stop Math's shot going through.

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know about your townread on Sooper. The Great and Powerful Trixie has them in the possible scum list. Which admittedly is shrinking by the day.

So.

You are possibly scumreading Sooper. Who is our strongest living scumread. Who we also are saying House scumread. Yet you think that we are scum even though everything we have done today is pointing towards us wanting a Sooper lynch.

How does that make any sense?

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

So let The Great and Powerful Trixie get this straight:

1) You said House had a vig: Why is the Great and Powerful Trixie still standing? The Great and Powerful Trixie was scumread heavily by both ABR and House.
2) JaeReed got a public cop for winning and an ability you supposedly get to make a mission type ineligible for winning. You expect The Great and Powerful Trixie and others to believe that LOSING House got a vig. That makes no sense.
3) Kills take place before recruits in natural action resolution so you want to out someone who can't be fucking hit with anything because House died. So NO ONE would claim and then you could proclaim a random townie conf scum.

Copy
Hide
Bus
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect


That is the NAR. So you want someone to claim a physical impossibility.

4)You were on both missions scum tried to fuck up...Gee what a concept. What is more likely you are lying scum and making up shit. No one can verify what happened on that mission because they are all dead or imprisoned. A vig at this juncture with 10 alive at the point House had it would be insane. That would be almost as powerful as the public cop for LOSING.

The Great and Powerful Trixie has a deep craving for cinnamon rolls and is going to feed the Great and Powerful Trixie's mouth hole with it instead of this stupidity that is this game.

House didn't mention you as a scumread at the end of the night. He only talked about Sooper, karnos and PV. Also it doesn't look like he took a shot, or if he did it didn't go through.

I don't know why we got such a reward for losing but we did.

I believe House's action went through because it was a vanillaizer as well. So the vanillaizing happened before any kill.

I don't think a vig reward, even for losing, is as powerful as you think it is.

I failed my post restriction but this should be clear you are trying to aim for a Mislynch target.

You said House wasn't scumreading me at the end of the night and now you say House scumread me. You can't keep your lies straight.

The short answer is D&D and Worldz or D&D and Sooper with an outside chance of D&D and ABR. Will type more when I get home. I think you could be distancing Sooper here. I think Worldz is more likely because my two top town reads trust Sooper. Will type more when I get home.

jfc

I already said House, IN THE MISSION PT, never mentioned your name. I agreed that House, IN THE MAIN THREAD, was scumreading you yesterday. THERE ARE NO LIES. Why do you insist on seeing contradictions WHERE THERE AREN'T ANY????

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

The only restriction on our giving guns is that we cannot give a gun to the same player twice.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Regarding Karnos:YOU HAVE A ONE USE NIGHTVIG FOR THESE PTS, IF YOU RETAIN ACCESS. IF YOUR VIG FAILS TWICE FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT TURNS INTO A DAYVIG.

Having D&D scum makes sense that D&D gives me a gun as SirCakez knows my reads are terribad. Then ABR to hope he sheeps house and shoots me when I use it to take out his buddy.

It also isn't the same thing as scum having three kills as D&D couldn't control who the person he gave the gun to. I'd also expect he has some kind of "can only give this to scum on X nights" or when "Y scum dead" or some kind of weird condition. However I see may possible D&D scum possibilities and it matches that Titus would give a gunsmith to scum.

We gave you a gun because we both agreed you were town night 1.
And we gave ABR a gun for the same reason.

It wasn't some conspiracy to get you or abr to misshoot.

You, ABR, Math - Town

Sooperdetective, Jaereed, Worldzmine - Lean Town

D&D - Scum

include the jailed people in your read lists please

@Everyone reads on jailed people, who are most likely town and why.

Space Cowboy - Lean Town

McMenno, PeregrineV - Scum

Randomidget - Definitely Scum (Townreads D&D, jumps off the Karnos wagon... ISO him.)

These reads from Klingon are why she is scum.
Random is very, very obviously town at this point.
And her reads of the living people are town reads on everyonne except us, which looks like scum coasting off the frame.job that's been done on us.

I'll be honest, neither of us really want to play this game anymore. We're both frustrated as fuck with the players and how we're being framed because scum likely either has a PT spy or just picked House to NK because he's House.
So yeah I get why everyone is scumreading us so we've basically accepted we're being lynched. Just let us hash out reads b4 we go to jail.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Okay what frustrates me to no end is that I have posted the answers to a bunch of questions and then you guys just ask the same questions so it's like not you're even reading what we're saying you're just calling us scum based on stuff that we had absolutely no control over.

FA, if you believe we should lock the prison break mission, we can do so before we get lynched.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

The main thing I want to hear from D&D is why scum would volunteer (as your post indicated) if they were scum. That seems really contradictory.

Yet AGAIN.

1) ORIGINALLY, PV actually tried to get our slot to do the action that got him sent to jail. Then House argued PV into going.
2) PV did not volunteer for the specific action that had the consequence of going to jail. There was a risk of going to jail because of the sabotage but the risk applied to all of our actions if they failed, so in NO WAY was PV doing the action indicative of his alignment.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Er.. if that last was unclear, what I meant was there wasn't any particular action that had the specific consequence of going to jail, it just so happens that PV failed the action and got sent to jail but it's not like we knew that was going to happen on that specific part of the mission because it could have happened any time we failed at all.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Also Sooper keeps deliberately misreading our words, so let me restate this.

AT THE END OF DAY 2: House was scumreading Math. okay. I agree with this statement.
AT THE END OF NIGHT 2: House did not mention Math in his reads. He only talked about Sooper, karnos, and PV.

I don't know why House didn't mention Math in his reads at the end of the night. I don't recall us arguing about it with him.

Also, House only revealed his role to us because he believed we were town.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

FA, if you believe we should lock the prison break mission, we can do so before we get lynched.

so that can be done during the day phase?

nice to know that. what do you think

is it good to be done or not? why

As I've said multiple times, there's not really any point to doing so because there's other ways for people to break out (the only one that I know of is Jaereed but I am thinking that scum would also have some way of breaking out their people). So us closing off the mission won't in itself cause the flips to start showing.

Also, House only revealed his role to us because he believed we were town.

I beleive he wanted to test you and ABR with that but he screwed up by sending that message to ABR.

anyway I do beleive and agree he had a pov that you were more likely town in it when he revealed his role pm. why that even matters?

Idk I was thinking that that might actually make people reconsider but everyone is either so stuck in their confbias or scum gleefully joining our lynch that it really doesn't.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

No. I just realized plan of awesome is horrible. If we do the plan of awesome and you get stuck breaking you out might kill you instead of stopping the prison break.

I think we gotta prison break here and get the towniest person out. The fact D&D is willing to stop us should tell us something.

We're willing because SEVERAL PEOPLE asked us if we could do it. ABR was quite insistent on it in the mission PT night 1, but we said that it didn't need to happen immediately. He was YELLING at us to block off the prison break mission. This literally says NOTHING about us because Jaereed can also prison break by themselves so it's not like us blocking off the mission prevents a prison break from occurring, which is why we've been saying there's not really any point to doing it, until those other ways have been used up or disabled, in order for us to see prison flips.

Once again, you're literally ignoring all the stuff I've said and just painting everything we do as scummy.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

No. I just realized plan of awesome is horrible. If we do the plan of awesome and you get stuck breaking you out might kill you instead of stopping the prison break.

I think we gotta prison break here and get the towniest person out. The fact D&D is willing to stop us should tell us something.

Don't be so fucking obtuse
Like lilith already said, we've been asked REPEATEDLY if we can block the prison escape so we can get the prison flips. It's not something we want to do, it's people asking us to do it. Get your head out of your ass.

@D&D can I get reads from both heads please? Going through the ISOs you look town by play. Can you also paraphrase the posts in the mission PT where PV was pressured into doing the thing that sent him to jail?

Next post I'll make a list and try to paraphrase the posts

Sorry school is killing me.

I believe we should run the mission. I was convinced PV was town and I still am. I very much dislike abr's change of mind on how ov suddenly is town and i am scum, but i dont even care anymore.
The cons of not running it are far greater and less in our control.

Im pro breaking out sc and pv. I still believe the worldz slot should die.

-S

You want to break out the two people who probably scumslipped?
right.....

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Town: FA, ABR
Nulltown: Jae, Worldz slot
Nullscum: Klingon, Math (this developed recently, all of the misrep from them is unbelievable and I know they aren't this bad)
Scum: Sooper

In jail I scumread everyone except random

I made a paraphrase but I'm asking the mods first to make sure it's ok.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

And the answer to that seems to be no. The only person asking seems to be Frozen Angel at this point and it seems there are triggers we don't know about. So why shoot down the trigger we do?

Your supposedly biggest townread in ABR says to break people out. Yet you don't try to straighten him out on his PV read instead you throw shade on Sooper. The only question here is whether or not you are serious in claiming PV scum and ABR is intentionally taking the other side to fuck with FA or if PV is genuinely town and you are bussing your partner while trying to stop it.

I do not believe in some mystical force that swooped in and sabotaged both missions you were on. Therefore it is only a matter of what wine you are spilling and I like my tables clean.

Do you see us stopping the mission? No
ABR is scumreading PV which we agree on, there's nothing to fix

"some mystical force" being scum
riiiight

[Daenerys and Dragons]

FFS I missed that, it was at the bottom of the last page
ABR why are you town reading him now?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Oh fuck off
You're trying to twist literally everything we say into something scummy. It's dirty as fuck and you know it, but you're doing it anyway. If all you're going to do is throw shade and shitfling, go take a hike.

And yes, I am reading his posts. If he did say why his read changed it wasn't clear.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Not going to talk to Math anymore because I'll prob get banned
Lilith is fed up with him too

If anyone who isn't named MathBlade wants to ask us things please do!

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Not going to talk to Math anymore because I'll prob get banned
Lilith is fed up with them too

If anyone who isn't named MathBlade wants to ask us things please do!

Ebwop
Mb

[Daenerys and Dragons]

First off, I got the ok from Titus to post the PT paraphrase
The numbers are referring to post numbers

1-12 is discussion of mechanics and the best option to take
13 PV tells House and us to attempt the mission
14-24 is mechanics discussion
25 PV asks the mod a question suggesting we do the mission
26-32 is more mechanics
33 House says he wants to take the guard out via combat
34-38 mechanics
39 House tells PV to take out the guard
40-42 is house derping
43 House votes for PV to fight the guard
44 PV asks us whether we prefer to fight or use charisma, completely ignoring House
45 House yells at PV to submit the action
46 PV gives in and does the action

In jail I scumread everyone except random

>.>

what

Yes I know there has to be at least one town out of (PV, SC, McMenno), but I really have no clue who it is, they were all incredibly scummy.

FFS I missed that, it was at the bottom of the last page
ABR why are you town reading him now?

in the astral PT he seems genuine. He's more open with his thoughts there.

Can you elaborate on this? This is pretty vague.

wanna talk about your PV read?

when it even started and how it formed and what happened to it

@D&D explain your PV read, when it started how it shaped and what is its state right now?

It developed in the middle of day 2 when I noticed he wasn't doing anything useful. I usually try to give PV space for at least a day because it's hard to read him with how little he usually posts. Plus ABR was a strong pusher of the wagon and we both think he's town. Later on, his OMGUS of ABR was even worse.

Also I don't think this is very clear.
Scum may not have even been trying to frame us. They may have just killed House for being a strong town player, and just got lucky now with how much suspicion it put on us. There doesn't have to be a PT spy <.<

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

It developed in the middle of day 2 when I noticed he wasn't doing anything useful. I usually try to give PV space for at least a day because it's hard to read him with how little he usually posts. Plus ABR was a strong pusher of the wagon and we both think he's town. Later on, his OMGUS of ABR was even worse.

link to his omgus of ABR please

he had a pretty much convincing reasoning for scumreading ABR (which now its no more valid) but at that time it was reasonable to scumread him.

So your strongest scumread which is the core of your reads and the base for all your reads is mainly sheeping ABR

why do you both townread ABR?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8309799

I townread him because I believe his being masonized and his play has generally been a mirror to his previous town play.
Not sure about lilith

Yes I know there has to be at least one town out of (PV, SC, McMenno), but I really have no clue who it is, they were all incredibly scummy.

Nope

Not appreciated

Not ok

get out of here or explain how they all are scummy in your eyes cause you know that sucks and you suck for scum reading all of them atm. unless your scum and your wasting my time here. why is randomidget obviously town?

McMenno had a scumslip that fit with Space Cowboy scum and I've explained my PV scumread repeatedly?

@d&d
So you said you were warned that violence might throw you in jail and you could choose for dealing with it using charisma but didnt? Why?
Also, why are you scumreading us? You gave reasons and i showed why theyre not valid. Yet we are still in your scumpool.

House/PV chose that. We weren't really involved with the decision making in part 1 of the mission.
I didn't see anything from you showing why it was "not valid"

Also I thought we were voting but apparently not
VOTE: sooper

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@D&D PV explained his reasoning for scumreading ABR and it was pretty much valid at that point. what about it was just an OMGUS and why was it scummy?

I don't have a response for this, wasn't paying much attention at that point of the game.

his being masonized

that was today. You were hard townreading and sheeping him from yesterday.

My townread on ABR came from him yelling at us to close off the prison break mission N1 (the mission we originally thought was the prison break mission, until the actual one became available). It doesn't benefit him as scum to insist on getting us further towards flips from prison, and that kind of pushiness reminded me a lot of how he strongarmed lynches in Bloodborne. (Also of how he was trying to strongarm a lynch onto us on D1--but then he stopped trying to do that and I don't really know why.)

McMenno had a scumslip that fit with Space Cowboy scum and I've explained my PV scumread repeatedly?

Your saying MC shot his scum buddy and scum slipped and got lynched as well and Scum!PV went on a mission and did somthing which jailed him on his own.

Don't you really expect me to not laugh at this shit your proposing ; really?

I don't think that Space Cowboy and Mcmenno were both scum--you said yourself that Mcmenno was being really scummy by shooting Space cowboy without letting them claim or "prove they were town." I am townreading SC.

We have already, repeatedly, explained that 1) we did not know that PV's action would send him to jail, and 2) House was the one who told him to go.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@d&d
So you said you were warned that violence might throw you in jail and you could choose for dealing with it using charisma but didnt? Why?
Also, why are you scumreading us? You gave reasons and i showed why theyre not valid. Yet we are still in your scumpool.

-S

Violence MIGHT throw us in jail, but using charisma would DEFINITELY remove that person from the rest of the mission. And on top of that, none of us in the mission had good charisma (you can check our stats).

As cakes said, I don't believe you showed that anything was invalid.

I believe there is in fact a lot of power with the leader, because everyone naturally wants to get on their good side in order to be on the mission. So they have a lot of sway over the gamestate. One of the reasons that PV wasn't being wagoned properly was because you told ABR and us that if we kept scumreading your townread that you wouldn't take us on the mission.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Also I'm trying to find this post where someone said that we faked the PT because "House wouldn't derp" but I can't find the post so this is my response to that.

Posts 40-42 Cakes described as "house derping."
Post 40 is him correcting his spelling from post 39
Post 41 is him taking back a question to the mod because it was answered in the mission OP
Post 42 is him adding on a qualification to post 39 in that PV would be the best person to go IF he was elementalist (which of course he was)

Idk why "House would not derp" is an argument against us but apparently it came up so.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

PV is a read that I was trusting Cakes on, because I was having a lot of trouble reading him, as is usually the case with low-content players.

If you'll notice I've never said that I thought his actions were scummy, but I have been trying to disprove that anything he did in the mission was inherently town-motivated. I've been saying that it was NAI.

Honestly I have been really disengaged from this game for most of the time and so I've kind of let Cakes dominate our hydra. We haven't discussed reads at length since D1, I think.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@D&D PV explained his reasoning for scumreading ABR and it was pretty much valid at that point. what about it was just an OMGUS and why was it scummy?

his being masonized

that was today. You were hard townreading and sheeping him from yesterday.

McMenno had a scumslip that fit with Space Cowboy scum and I've explained my PV scumread repeatedly?

Your saying MC shot his scum buddy and scum slipped and got lynched as well and Scum!PV went on a mission and did somthing which jailed him on his own.

Don't you really expect me to not laugh at this shit your proposing ; really?

Because he literally developed the scumread randomly right after ABR pushed him
Yeah we had a townread on him yesterday from meta/play, I thought I said that
MC didn't shoot Space Cowboy iirc.
Yes he scumslipped
Yes I think PV walked into being jailed due to pressure from House

actually sooper slot outed the info as well disregard that.

Something went wrong there but the rest of it seems like preplanned. for a scum team with 2 or 3 memebers and a traitor its madness to just shoot each other like that.

MC is scum for no doubt though. that changes my reads around that point

Now things should make more sense.

Math - your top two scumreads are us and Sooper. Do you think we're cross-bussing or something?

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Also I'm trying to find this post where someone said that we faked the PT because "House wouldn't derp" but I can't find the post so this is my response to that.

Posts 40-42 Cakes described as "house derping."
Post 40 is him correcting his spelling from post 39
Post 41 is him taking back a question to the mod because it was answered in the mission OP
Post 42 is him adding on a qualification to post 39 in that PV would be the best person to go IF he was elementalist (which of course he was)

Idk why "House would not derp" is an argument against us but apparently it came up so.

-Daenerys

House is incapable of derp.

what the actual FUCK are you telling me that you don't believe our paraphrase of the mission PT because HOUSE CORRECTED HIS SPELLING AND TOOK BACK A QUESTION THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED????

[Daenerys and Dragons]

If you are scumreading us because of this then you need to get your head out of your ass.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Because he literally developed the scumread randomly right after ABR pushed him
Yeah we had a townread on him yesterday from meta/play, I thought I said that
MC didn't shoot Space Cowboy iirc.
Yes he scumslipped
Yes I think PV walked into being jailed due to pressure from House

all 3 cant be scum though

2 of the 3 people your fos ing are town very likely and I want to bring them back tonight.

This is what confuses me
I think 13-4 with a traitor makes sense, so 2 scum could be in jail and only 1 left alive
So if I HAD to pick, the town is prob SC

Fine, because I'm tired of the secrecy
Im a voyeur
First night i looked at random and only saw a bounty and myself

This night i saw my own action, klingon's action called nerfed agent which does X, X and sees sent and received messages. I also saw another action, but I am unsure whether I should claim that since I don't know if the user (i dont know the user, only the action) wants me to reveal it.

@fa second

-S

This claim seems super fake
None of the roles have been this vanilla, they've all had weird abilities or multiple different abilities
Just a vanilla Voyeur doesn't fit at all

I'm glad to see others are coming around on Sooper scum too

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

VOTE: Unvote

Mod confirmed it to me too. Seems bastard to me that it wouldn't but now is not the time for that discussion.

Just got home from work.

@D&D I am not asking what I am asking if - Are you claiming to have multiple abilities or are you claiming that you just give out guns?

At night, we only give out guns. We also have one other ability that we haven't used but it has little possible utility from my perspective, given other things that have happened.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

This claim seems super fake
None of the roles have been this vanilla, they've all had weird abilities or multiple different abilities
Just a vanilla Voyeur doesn't fit at all

I'm glad to see others are coming around on Sooper scum too

-dragons

But it's not fake, because i have information because of it that's confirmable.
My other 'power' is entering/leaving matrix whenever I want, but that was already known.

That doesn't confirm your alignment, it just confirms you have an ability that lets you get that information.
Role =/= alignment.

@D&D

sooper is not that vanilla as your making it look like though. he is a semi role cop voyeur.

Where is the semi rolecop from?

Hi Not Chara
-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Well it seems fairly obvious that scum know what happened in the mission PT, and yet there are still town that don't know.

For the record, this is one of the reasons that town lost in Bloodborne. The "inner circle" was so focused on keeping their information out of the hands of everyone not in the circle that they (us included) forgot about the possibility that there were scum inside the circle who already knew. In the end the only ones losing out were town, because there were players outside of the inner circle who had the ability to stop scum.

If sooper's intention doesn't show guilt i don't know what does.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Helloo???

Like we've been saying all along, it's Sooper.

Town!sooper, who is supposedly townreading you, Jae, and math, KNOWS that one of us, not chara, and ABR is scum and none of us were in that mission. They know that math has been trying to shut down the spread of info in order to stop scum from hearing their role. But that didn't even cross their mind, and I believe it's because they know that scum already knows all the useful stuff.

-Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Helloo???

Like we've been saying all along, it's Sooper.

Town!sooper, who is supposedly townreading you, Jae, and math, KNOWS that one of us, not chara, and ABR is scum and none of us were in that mission. They know that math has been trying to shut down the spread of info in order to stop scum from hearing their role. But that didn't even cross their mind, and I believe it's because they know that scum already knows all the useful stuff.

-Daenerys

This is a bald face lie.

I have said several times Sooper scum was one of the worlds that was possible and the only way scum didn't have my role is that if it is D&D + Worldz + ABR. That was even one of my posts.

Are you so desperate to paint me as scum you are resorting to lying now?

Wtf are you talking about

I never once said you were scum I am saying that it is sooper. ?????

It follows by logical coincidence if Sooper scum then scums knows what happened during the mission. Like what?

Yes and I am saying that sooper forgot that scum wasn't supposed to know about it.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I think I will name my kid Oliver.

Sooper is just obv scum. Jesus even that flail has desperate all over it at L-1 and distancing D&D to boot. Like wow.

Yes they're obvscum, no they're not "distancing" from us

You're a crybaby. Klingon is scum with sooper. I'm town.

I think it's just Sooper left (which is why they've started AtEing from frustration), but if there's another one then yeah Klingon.
I don't think Math would have turned on Sooper here as scum.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@KC that is the only towny attidue. That is the only thing I'm responsible for in this game. to have a bunch of townreads and elimante the rest of players. If you are town and you win that way whats your problem with this?

VOTE: D&D

this has to be scum. if there is secondary scums it must be in KC or sooper ; Jaread or ABR in secondbracket.

D&D must get lynched for being on all missions which got sabotaged; house death and for not giving me a good vibe overall. I know ABR has a townread on this slot which I can't understand and KC and jae are just with me in pushing them without pushing them on their own . so after D&D scum flip its one in the three or NC who I'm null on and that makes sooper town. IF for 5% D&D not flipped scum KC is mafia and I guess the second mafia is in NC , Jaread or ABR is mafia and the second mafia is in sooper , jaread but abr sooper makes less sense becuase of the way he was pushing him today.

KC ABR is less likly becuase of outing that message yesterday. If both scum KC was on someone else and they made that theather for absoloutly no gain but outing their power which is absurd.

This is the only way I can see the game right now. as I am leaning town on jaread and math the possible scum pairs in my mind are :

{D&D, ABR} , {D&D ,KC} , {D&D , NC} , {KC , NC}

and these pairs are yet still possible but I don't think so

{D&D , Jaread} , {NC , ABR} , {NC , D&D} , {ABR , Sooper} , {ABR , Jaread} , {sooper , jaread}//I'm so fucked up in this scenario - so so fucked up , {Sooper , NC} , {KC , ABR} , {KC , Jaread} , {Math , D&D} , {Math , ABR} , {Math , NC}

I can't see sooper scum with D&D and KC and I think the possibility for him being scum with ABR and jaread and NC is low. so that might mean he is town.

Math is likly town for shooting scum and her message - though it might be an attempt for making me confirm what I am instead of what it was look like but then she is not scum with sooper or jae cuase they already saw the crumbs in aveture pt and they didn't need to send message.

If I missed any really possible pair remind me of it.I removed some pairs which seem impossible for me because of the way stuff happened in the game. (like math , KC)

This is all based on assuming 2 scums are among the living. if its only one by removing D&D , Sooper and KC in this order (or maybe changing the order of sooper and KC) we must win.

We are town though
Why can't you see Sooper scum with KC?
Heck why can't you see just one scum left? There doesn't have to be two left. I'm not sure why everyone is assuming that.

VOTE: D&D

Ok. I'm probably full derping in questioning my Math read, anyway.

Random threw shade on me for putting D&D in a run N1, saying it was "weird" that I did, despite coming in to D2 townreading both ABR and D&D apparently, and despite me defending D&D D1 due to Cakez AtE.

I wondered if maybe ABR could have been bussing D&D and that caused Cakez to AtE the way he did out of frustration of being bussed so hard and so early, but reviewing his ISO in the two games that FA linked he didn't bus his partners that early and the tone of all of his posts seem quite different to what his tone is here, so I'm more inclined to believe it was a genuine push from ABR. He feels more aggressive in this game when trying to lynch D&D. I'll try to bring up the posts in a sec.

I wouldn't get that mad at being bussed early. It happens to me a lot <.<

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I think we need to flip for this game to progress which sucks, but it's how the players have locked themselves into thinking.
You know our reads and where we think the scumz are.
You guys might as well hammer. Both of us are pretty done with this game anyway.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Our role has two parts
We give out guns nightly that have to specify the thread they're shooting in (this part is pretty vague, but it worked for Math fine) (we can't deliver to the same person twice)
The other is that each day we can block the party leader from picking a mission. Basically what we got from the mission night one except more specific. We haven't used that for obvious reasons.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

So you are a mission sabatoger?

We can stop the missions before they start, not sabotage them

To be clear, the way I'm reading it is D&D can give out guns every night to people with the only restriction being not the same person each night, and also they can shut down missions from being run each night.

But also the N1 reward was to shut off a mission permanently, and I can't see a reason for that if a player could do that already, y'know?

But there's no reason for D&D to claim that if it's not their role, and also we have more than one saying that the N1 reward was to shut off a mission permanently.

Maybe I'm not thinking along the right lines here. Also were you told that you had to specify where you were targetting? That means potentially ABR could shoot in prison yeah? That expands the flip pool I think.

The reward could have gone to anyone, it just happened to land with us. Its a coincidence.

From what dragons head said, you should have had to. It seems like a direct contradiction if you didn't. I can't imagine Titus not being literal enough to have mentioned that.

Also, if you're shooting someone it shouldn't matter what thread they're in, right? Because if they're alive and unlynched they are in the main thread, and if they're alive and lynched they're in prison thread. So it doesn't make sense to have that kind of clause.

If I'm right, then that makes D&D confscum, which means that they're giving guns to people they think have bad reads, because I couldn't work out how logically they had a stronger townread on you based off D1 than literally anyone else. The answer is they didn't. They thought your read on karnos was bad and gave you a gun to shoot him. They thought ABR would stick to his scumread on you and gave him a gun to shoot you, while probably thinking karnos would flip town due to shenanigans.

That's my hypothesis. Which would then make both yourself and ABR conftown if D&D flips scum.

I will try to clarify the thread specifying part next post.

Its more likly D&D is just given up scum

and they are really the one who sabatoged missions and made it harder

although I see some patterns in their gunsmith claim with my protection role. which means nothing about their alignment though.

I mean we have given up we're just not scum. Neither of us enjoy posting in this game because it's just a circlejerk.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

OK yeah our role clearly says the player who is shooting has to be specific about the thread they're shooting in, either Astral, Matrix or Meat, a.k.a main thread.
No idea how Math didn't have to do that....

[Daenerys and Dragons]

We are town. But we get it. Good luck!
If you guys are going for the prison break tonight you should pull out SC.
Sooper/Klingon are my scumreads and a slight scumlean on Math in case those two are both town.

-dragons

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I can selfhammer if necessary

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Actually we probably have a while to discuss, knowing when Titus is usually on.
FA since we're town who do you think the scum are, with that in mind?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

That question could really apply to most of the game, except for like ABR