STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - I'll be V/LA til Monday morning for my usual weekend family activities.

Howdy. Replaced in solely because Killthestory is a jerk and flaking on a 250 page game is a dick move.

I'm not going to be reading this whole thing. Sorry, it just likely isn't going to happen. I did start a quick skim and deduced there was a literal fuck-ton of behind the scenes stuff going on anyway that I'm not privy to so a detailed read would likely be a waste of time. Probably will look at SirCakez at least when I have time. Also we've gotten 9 to 10 pages in like 12 to 14 hours. Likely better for me to stay up-to-date than continue to lag behind.

Would lynch Firebringer for his attitude given that he is pushing on one of our apparent clears and this is scum Firebringer behavior ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Phone post -

can anyone give any insight as to why anyone not named Yume or Titus are "confirmed Town"?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yume was told Mastina was conftown in their PT.
Mastina vouches for Yume based on flavor.
I vouch for Mastina telling me Yume's flavor.

So why is farside prattling on about confirmed Town?

[MagnaofIllusion]

See point system at start of the game.

This isn't an explanation that is meaningful. Either clearly explain or stop flooding the thread with crap.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok off to take my daughter to horses. For the record I will be absolutely siding with Titus (Mod Confirmed Town) or Yume (Town vouched by Mod Confirmed Town) over either farside or Firebringer if it comes to it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Just let me know when it is time to vote Farside ..

Because not claiming an Ascetic like hers immediately Day 1 is so scum play. Add in the "I'm confirmed Town via points" when believing that requires scum to not lie about what they chose and continuing to attack a Mod confirmed Town player and the result should be rope TBH.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because I wanted players to target me.

Scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Let me get this straight, you wanted me to claim a negative utility role and hope when I say hey you target me and I'll get bonus even though it's negative and know in my heart of hearts no one would target me.
Sadly the only reason Titus knows she was blocked by me was because she targetted me.
A noisy ascetic for scum is awful.
But hey who cares, right Titus.

This is so awful that I can't begin to think Farside is Town spouting this drivel. I mean peddling that it is Pro-Town to hide an Ascetic role with the intent purpose of negating the use probably multiple Town roles simply to boost a single role (her own)? Not smart in the least.

And then the WIFOM "Oh, my role would be terrible for scum" and the whole earlier junk level AtE (How many Town must we lynch when we've had exactly 2 lynches and only 1 mislynch) and you get a recipie for scum.

I'll vote her the minute I have the OK.

I am gonna ally with Magna and someone else if Magna says yes.

Absolutely. Anyone else you have in mind?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dgb has popcorn.

Ascetic

I control my ally's vote for the day which sucks balls I'd rather not

Oh look another Ascetic claim ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I understand the hesitation but I don't see the long term upside. Better to get it over with, imo. It's your call but just consider what happens going into the future one way and the other. I think you'll agree it's best just to get it done with.

If she says no stop badgering her on it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI, You have the ok. We just are not lynching ANYONE until the beach claims resolve, no matter how right I am convinced I am. We need to do the math.

Ok sounds good.

VOTE: Farside

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna Maybe Almost50? Or Skybird?

Unless you want me to re-read them I'll defer to your judgement since I have not read anything at all significantly (mostly skimming as a Spectator) before page 250.

Politely see your way out of the conversation. I'm fairly certain you don't know what we're talking about and thus have no reason to interject.

~Drixx

Nah.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Go ask yourself why and how KTS was in the loop.

To be fair I think there would be a reasonable expectation that most anyone would not want KTS in the loop.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Farside why did you target me?

This is a good question actually. Now that farside has disappeared hopefully it gets addressed whenever she pops back in.

OK back to V/LA for Wife's birthday dinner at a restaurant I can't stand. Yay me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So in short end of day 1, pretty sick of Titus attitude, stopped caring/trying to even reason with her, disbanded, asked everyone to target me so I can get the fuck out of the game with a garenteed win then watching sheeping, dealing with fighting and hoping it happened before day 2.
As you can see no luck.

How is this not getting more people voting for it?

And the irony of farside complaining about attitude is rich ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Since this Beach vote thing is bogging down and I don’t think my vote will make things any clearer I’m just going to claim it now. I voted Reasonably Rational because I had to make a quick decision and I didn’t see any point in flipping Titus (who was confirmed by the Mod). RR made the beach event happen and from the rules it is stated scum have Pro-Town looking Events so on gut I decided to vote for them based solely on the level of freak-out I saw while spectating about “My event is so Town and you are trying to lynch me before it happens”.

--

Why isn't MoI telling us to lynch him for this effect?

Because Yume never discussed the idea with me at all and this came out of right field. She’s probably correct now that I’ve looked at the mechanics of it.

And I don’t think Yume’s “I need the gun” for the same reason would work.

--

Just vig xk #justdoit

No. This would be stupid and I’m getting sick of seeing this as your only contributions to the game.

--

Farside isn't the only scum, assuming they are. Can you tell me who else you would lynch?

Already said I’d lynch Firebringer for the way he’s handled his interaction with Yume which is in his scum-play basket.

The point on Skybird being made about that reads-list is absolutely valid in that those scum reads are “Lurker, Lurker, VI” which in a game this size is suspect. I don’t know Skybird from Adam but just seeing that scum pool was enough with what little information I have for me to be content voting there given the game-state.

Maybe Kraskaesque for the whole “What’s the Cluster” business. I have only been skim following along as a Spectator and I know exactly what the Cluster event is.

--

Why argue about it. Klingy's flip should definitively say whether or not DGB is scum, wait for that.

Fill me in on why exactly this is …

--

This is scum skybird.
Just an fyi

Are you voting Skybird then? If not why not if that is scum Skybird?

Yume shad stuff I think was day 1, where yume barely engaged in the PT. She just floated around giving vague reads. Mastin claimed the mason thing but I don't see why anyone should believe that from jump.

Is this you trying to sell Yume as scum?

--

@Moi & grapes (also kindly, Shadow & kraska, please)

Day 1 – None
Day 2 – Klingon
Day 3 – None

--

Like how in the fuck was Klingon town or killed?
Kind of also feel responsible for her death too

Yeah, this is probably scum Firebringer.

Especially with all the “You have bad judgement” ironic attacks on Yume going on.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Voted for you.

Why in the hell would you vote a Mod confirmed slot?

[MagnaofIllusion]

To give the confirmed townie one of the three prizes?

Meh ... given the complexity of this game keeping the confirmed Townie's role hidden seems like more of a priority to me given the prizes may be redundant to them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And Fire, if you have a better plan to cancel 'Message Received' event, say it. Otherwise, STFU

He may well be scum Yume so don't waste your breath on him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why did you not volunteer to be lynched?

You mean because I can possibly cancel the event?

Because it requires jumping through a number of hoops that has not been confirmed by Varsoon yet to actually work. Until we get that confirmation I'm not going to say "Hey, lynch me" at the cost of not lynching scum if Yume's plan isn't viable.

Pretty simple reason Titus.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And now that Varsoon has said it would not work my caution has been borne out ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, have you read through day 1?

No. It's 130 pages and I really don't intend to do a detailed re-read of that length for 1 day. I still have reviewing Sir Cakez's ISO on my list of to-dos.

Is there something in particular you want me to review?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't think Fire is scum here.

I disagree. His attacking reaction to Yume being basically confirmed Town and his “MoI is a Dick” reaction to me calling him scum is absolutely in his scum game. Now that the game is over I can provide the link and posts that support this meta from Firebringer.

Recently ended Kids TV Character Game by Eleven. Firebringer was scum.

First let me highlight how he treats players who should be confirmed Town. Late-game we set up a plan where I would Commuterize Zulfy. There was one scum left. A kill by the Mafia that Night confirmed Zulfy wasn’t scum. Firebringer killed me that Night and tried to peddle “Oh, MoI went against the plan and Commuterized me instead” to attack Zulfy.

the only one I can possibly think it is Zulfy.
Maybe we should no lynch and let transcend shoot?

And how he reacts to Town me calling out his obvious fake-claim was obvious. Remember at this stage it is clear I am the only person claiming a Town protective role when two Mafia kills had been thwarted.

I personally don't have any sort of Town read on Firebringer given his lackluster play and claim. Tra

What the fuck is this?

Magna or Snowstorm.
Thats it.

Firebringer's claim stares at me in the face as by far the worst. The claimed RoleCop's make no sense IMO. Day 2's supposed gambit makes no sense from an actual investigation role who confirmed that Spiffeh's slot wasn't lying about being Vanilla (or a Goon). And the Night 3 investigation is terrible given he could have confirmed the role of any of Gamma (which would have been a guilty given his fake-claim), Bro or myself instead of another convienent "Vanilla" investigation. The claim also seems at odds in how it was constructed compared to Grib's claim (but that's MOD WIFOM so it is the least strong of my reasons for suspicion).

I personally don't have any sort of Town read on Firebringer given his lackluster play and claim. Transcend do you have any specific reason why you Town read him so strongly.

And this had a lot of bs in it.

And this little bitter gem from the Scum PT –

Ohhh might get lynched earlier than expected, exciting.

Also fuck magna, did more than his ass all game. I honestly can't remember what magna did for town besides annoy me today.

So Firebringer’s absolute refusal to work with Yume and his reaction to me calling him scum (calling me a Dick) is absolutely in Scum-Firebringer’s wheelhouse.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I wonder why DGB hasn’t called Almost50 out for busywork (see 6890 ) the way he did grapes?

@Xkfyu

– Since Yume has kicked me to the curb want to ally?

--

RR skybird almost has a scum in it. Lots more analysis in the morning.

This I would very much like to see.

--

FB, I am town hunting right now. The more town I find, the harder it will be for scum to hide. So why should I town read you?

Have you ever explained your scum reads on TWIE, DGB and Snarky? I’d really like to see them.

--

I believe that scum fake claims and role don't match as well as towns does

Given the Mod specifically said this wasn’t the case and that scum roles and safe-claims were constructed first I have a hard time believing you think this and have to consider how scummy it is for you to be floating it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Everyone who is on, If you had to pick a scum in RR/Almost/Skybird, who would you pick and why?

Skybird given the reasoning I've already stated (very soft scum reads) and that I don't have scum reads on Almost or RR at this stage.

[MagnaofIllusion]

mostly meta.
I've played tonnes of games with Xk offsite and I've also hydraed with him. This doesn't look like his town game at all.

And yet he isn't scum. So who would your next choice to push be?

[MagnaofIllusion]

And yet he isn't scum.

??

I'm telling you that I know he isn't scum since this game is specifically advertised as Non-Bastard.

So again - who are you moving on to as your next scum read?

[MagnaofIllusion]

the mastin vote group must have two scum in it. if there was only one, her final vote result would have had a .5 value. this is excluding Yume of course, who if scum would give 1 to mastin. but she's obviously not scum.
two of those scum 0.5 votes became a single 1 vote together, leading to mastin's final result of 7.

No because scum can have claimed to be in the Not Voting / Voting for someone else pool while actually voting for Mastin. Which is I think (hard to tell with that much wordage) the point of Titus's post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Question - has Firebringer faked a result on anyone this game?

[MagnaofIllusion]

yume stop hiding flips

Stop telling her what to do. She's doing what absolutely makes sense from her informed perspective and you not understanding because of your perspective doesn't mean it is bad play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Titus you forgot her "joking" about being lynchproof to discourage the wagon ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I agree ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@yume: is kling dead because of you? If so and you think she was scum, why are you withholding that flip?

Stop badgering Yume scumbag. Her actions are completely reasonable and unless you are going to press her as scum this is a pointless line of questioning.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't actually think anyone agrees with this other than you. Oh, and NC I guess, but that's because he views her as conftown and somehow thinks you shouldn't question conftown doing anti-town things.

-Cerb

Hey Cerb - remember when one of your heads told me to go jump in a lake because I didn't have the information you had?

Yeah, this would be an ironic echo - you don't have enough information to justify your stance.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What's up with you this game?

VOTE: Xk

This is a wasted vote and continuing to purse it will end up with you being lynched before Xk.

What do you think is odd about me? That I've discussed allying with someone who isn't scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ask yume about my post 86 from our pt together and then you can decide whether or not I've figured enough out to justify my stance. I've basically expressed the only circumstances under which this behavior is acceptable.

No, you haven't publicly expressed the only circumstances. If your circumstances are in the PT I can't see them so I can't comment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I didn't get anything.

Um, sorry? This means nothing to me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can you explain why mastin claimed YOU were the source of the kc kill? She said it was the same source as rhe fb thing, which you've claimed....but you say it was scum, not you.

The critical errors in what is presented here are the assumption that Firebringer was killed and that KC's kill was originated from Yume.

Both are incorrect.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's arguable that Yume didn't lie or deceive Mastin, btw, but mastins absolute CERTAINTY that there were no third parties in the game makes me feel that at some point Yume DID outright lie to Mastin about the gems.

Well this probably is a you problem then. Entirely possible Mastin didn't parse something properly or Yume wasn't as clear as she thought. But outright saying she did lie is stupid.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Actually, I did lie to her, and this is why

Ergo. This game is not going to have third party players. I would lynch any claimed third party player on sight, even if I were townreading them previously.

This is what happens when I'm missing 200+ pages of posting.

Playing outguess the Mod? Really Mastin?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lol, why would I lynch you? I just want to understand. :/ Not willing to risk mislynching someone who could be practically conftown when things would be cleared up with basically any crystal gems flip.

-Cerb

There is a viable reason that Yume may have not shared (I'm not sure what she has shared) that it serves ZERO purpose discussing in this thread. Actually two now that I think about it.

So can we move on from this pointless line of discussion?

I mean - if you think Yume and the rest of the Crystal Gems are a threat to Town then try to remove them. Otherwise stop being pedantic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

In going through some of the Mod provided highlights in the first post I now realize how potentially damaging Farside's choice to end the Joyride was.

Vote is absolutely staying.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Just think that if farside22 were scum, Not Chara would've gained 4 points or two scum voted Not Chara and hid themselves (which is unlikely).

Given the raw amount of players stating "Didn't Vote" or who voted outside the top three I don't think finding it unlikely makes much sense ...

Yes I understand the irony of me being in that group. I at least had the minor excuse of not being able to read 250 pages that colored my decision.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If farside were scum, it would mean two other scum voted Yume but lied about their vote, wouldn't they run the risk of being caught?

And how do you propose they would be caught?

[MagnaofIllusion]

But Firebringer ... you don't know how to not play as anti-Town ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Farside is scum and will be gotten back to later.
DGB will be sorted out with klingoncelt's flip.

No to both of these. Frankly the first is colossally stupid - if you think Farside is scum you force her hand now in case she really has a lynch dodge as waiting til later just delays her death even further. The second I highly doubt and that you keep saying it without giving jack shit for a reason annoys me.

@Yume and Xk

- it seems we need to resolve who is allying with who tonight. So Yume please confirm we are back on for allying before we go further. Thanks.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I confirm. Our third could be Almost.

Ok, thanks.

@Xk

- Sorry bud. No allying tonight. My apologies.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So, it's Yume & MoI for me?? Is that final?? Shall I send the request to Mr-V now?

Yes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Whoa are you going with this night for alliance?
I promise not to disband the alliance this time if you join me and kraska

Anyone who actually entertains an alliance with Farside is either scum or really stupid about how much they want to hurt Town ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Like, KC repeatedly said DGB controlled her vote, and now TWIE says she controls his vote today, so YES.. pretty much so.

It's as if Farside already knows who isn't scum and thus doesn't actually have to read the thread to learn alignments ..

[MagnaofIllusion]

Pot oh pot, have you read the thread.

Look at the scum try for pot-shots.

I've already said I'm not reading prior to Day 2. Too many pages.

Yet even I knew that DGB had control of his Alliance Member's vote.

And you, who have been here since the start, didn't. Too busy making up fake-claim details on the fly to pay attention to pretending to scum-hunt?

Vote happily stays where it is.

[MagnaofIllusion]

NotChara being Town is the only conclusion I will definitively draw from Beech-a-palooza. Anyone trying to sell “Farside is Town also” given the later discussion that maybe scum have 5 total non-Traitor members needs to probably find a line of work that isn’t in sales.

--

@Shadow

-

What's up with you this game?

VOTE: Xk

Shadow, I'll ally with you.

Cool.

You really need to explain the trajectory here. You were voting Xk for lynch (and thus must still have thought he was scum despite me telling you he isn’t) and yet agreed to ally with him?

--

I'm scumreading your posts, in spite of me trying not to.
Thus, why I hate you.

Explain in detail. Because Snarky is never Town in games. Ever. So him appearing as such to you gives me huge pause.

--

I'm scumreading your posts, in spite of me trying not to.
Thus, why I hate you.

Well, attempting to put this diplomatically – I don’t really give a shit. Because Yume says you are Town I can set aside your posting as “Typical Mastin ego posting” and not bother to read it in depth as I know you aren’t Mafia. Because otherwise I’d be looking at posts like 7771 and thinking “This has got to be scum agenda posting” because the fact that you are Town-reading TWIE and Creature instinctively makes me think you are scum trying to pocket them.

Because if you have a Masonry with Yume and haven’t been able to put 2 and 2 together that we share the same exact win-con then your posting will continue to mystify me and it’s best I not get distracted by it.

--

I'm mocking someone who has a weak reason to vote me.
Moi isn't a sheeping type.

Lol speaking of scum making weak arguments …

The continual attempts to deflect onto Titus ( 7674 as an example ) is reason enough for roping Farside.

“Well I was wrong and didn’t lynch scum but look at this Mod Confirmed Town, they pushed Town once so they are just as bad as I am”

Lol, no.

Titus feels strongly and aggressive and we have a dead townies.
She hasn't changed her reads, but that's OK.

And we have a Mod confirmed Live Town in Titus but you don’t change your ‘reads’ either. Funny how that works, huh scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Almost forgot ...

Mod - I will be V/LA from 4:30EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'd like for everyone to notice that despite Farside's repeated statements that we can't lynch her she's very preoccupied with the fact that a Confirmed Town wants her lynched.

The rest of this is Titus is scum reading me, I'm town and should follow that???
Like holy fuck how bad is that reasoning there.

That's a pretty classic scum-bag misrep right there.

You keep trying to deflect what other people accuse you of onto Titus saying "Well, she's just as bad so ignore her".

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Snarky

- there's your flip. Explain in detail how it solidified DGB as Town or Scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yume. Gonna need an answer to this.

What were the redacted parts of klingon's role? You only said win condition wouldn't show up, and the fact that more did only strengthens my suspicion that you caused those parts to be redacted.

@Varsoon: the rules say stress increases with any non-scum deatb, which implies third party flips would result in a stress increase.. Please confirm that the stress was not meant to change.

-Cerb

Yeah I'm coming to the conclusion that RR might well be scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You quoted my post, here, but I think that was in error, because my read on SnarkySnowman is second-strongest scumread.

Yes, that was a copy paste error. I was meaning to address whoever said "He looks Town in the hood".

[MagnaofIllusion]

Do people actually think Yume is going to be target for night kills?

Can we lunch this if not Farside? Because we should ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Quick phone post ...

Mastin have you ever actually played with Snarky?

Because what you say is at the same time accurate and meaningless as Snarky plays scummy as Town. To the point that I am coming around to believe he may be functionally unreadable by posting alone.

Titus has made very good points in regards to how he voted.

If you want a policy lynch on Snarky go for it. I will not support with scum like Farside around. But I want you to clearly understand what you are against with SS.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't care about how powerful a players role is.
That's not the primary motivation behind my kills.

So no.

Yume will be here for days to come.

Yeah, that's why your scum team got baited into a second straight Commute protect by me Night 3 of TV Characters.

It's like you think anyone buys this crap.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So why the fuck was klingon shot? To throw shade on DGB and Mastina?

Have you considered that maybe Klingon might not be the target and there are mechanics at play beyond what may be publicly known?

I say this because I'm not sure what Yume has shared.

A good starting point to look for scum would be see who were the early "Why Klingon kill" theory spouters today. If scum's real target got thwarted then that's the kind of info leakage I expect from scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nah I don't want to lynch Fire unless he's still wrong after we flip a few more.

I think RR, Creature, Farside, Skybird, Shadow. Thoughts?

Totally on board with Farside of course.

RR I'm coming around to - there is a level of holes in their logic that make me think they are playing a very competent scum game otherwise. Top of my mind - their reason for clearing Farside with "Varsoon took my fake-claim from this game and made it a role" when it is just a like that Varsoon could have just taken that fake-claim and made a fake-claim with it. The fact they don't even consider that in their analysis is troubling.

Skybird I could go for also for reasons already stated - a scum list that has Snarky (easy target) and two lurkers. Her play is completely underwhelming. I do need to check with Yume on a few things related to her.

Creature - Meh. For a large game he's playing better than the level I've come to expect but that's simply based on today and isn't really alignment indicative. Something in particular I need to look into?

[MagnaofIllusion]

and magna, what does Fire's belief that Yume wouldn't be nightkilled have to do with him being scum?

Because he's trying to undercut Yume by saying she is incompetent (she will never be killed because scum that is smart will kill smart players).

That sort of attack on confirmed Town is right out of Firebringer's scum playbook. I already showed previously him doing it in TV Characters Mafia. Did you not read that post?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Farside is scum and will be gotten back to later.
DGB will be sorted out with klingoncelt's flip.

No to both of these. Frankly the first is colossally stupid - if you think Farside is scum you force her hand now in case she really has a lynch dodge as waiting til later just delays her death even further. The second I highly doubt and that you keep saying it without giving jack shit for a reason annoys me.

@Yume and Xk

- it seems we need to resolve who is allying with who tonight. So Yume please confirm we are back on for allying before we go further. Thanks.

Quick phone post ...

Mastin have you ever actually played with Snarky?

Because what you say is at the same time accurate and meaningless as Snarky plays scummy as Town. To the point that I am coming around to believe he may be functionally unreadable by posting alone.

Titus has made very good points in regards to how he voted.

If you want a policy lynch on Snarky go for it. I will not support with scum like Farside around. But I want you to clearly understand what you are against with SS.

Pointing out how bad SnarkySnowman post is to.
Oh my God Titus how great you are I'll sheep that shit.


Like at some point someone should tell moi that titus confirmed town mastin and there disagreeing with reads.
Just a good fyi there.

Hey look at this scum-fuck posting. Nothing in the first post is a scum read on Snarky and yet you are trying to sell it as contradiction.

Scummy scummy scummy scum!

MORE FARSIDE VOTES!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Something in particular I need to look into?

SirCakez (LYNCH):

McMenno

,

grapes

,

Shiro

,

Xkfyu

,

SnarkySnowman, Kraskaeaque

,

Reasonably Rational

Farside22 (3):

killthestory

, Firebringer,

Almost50

Shiro (2):

Farside22, Skybird

McMenno (2):

Thefuzzylogic99

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

Not Voting (5):

Foxbird, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball,

Creature

Not quite accurate, but deleted = no chance of being scum, strikethrough = strong (maybe mechanical) reason to believe not scum, underline = strong read as not scum, italics = weaker (less-substantiated, speculative) reason to not be scum.

Well given I don't care about Mastin's VCA personally not sure what bout this is supposed to sell me on you as scum. Or what were you trying to peddle to me?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think there is 5 days left of the game day, will be longer if I'm lynched, some players agree with reads and some could be scum.

And this is reason number to to lynch farside. If she's telling the truth it gives us more time to consolidate on a second best lynch.

Anyone who believes farside has zero reason to not lynch her because believing her means that you believe she will not be lynched and the day will continue at the only potential cost of her ability to go 3rd Party at the expense of Town.

So there is no Town downside to calling her bluff.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well the more important question is
Is farside a crystal gem or not? Why is MoI pushing her after allying with you?

No she isn't. Stop fishing Yume.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am the only one who mentioned my play in SMITE, and I certainly didn't attempt to clear Farside with it. Just the opposite. I find it very unlikely that Varsoon decided he had spare time between designing all these epic games he runs to go read a 12,000 post (plus another 10k+ posts in hoods) game and saw my fake claim and decided to make a role out of it. I'm not even sure I can assign a probability high enough to be a proper integer to that. Possible? Anything is technically possible. Probable? Fuck no.

I get that it sucks you are part of a third party faction whose leader may or may not have lied about their wincon and we're the slot who figured out you even existed and is pushing the inconsistencies, but just making shit up is never going to get past us. All you're doing is adding to the paranoia. The one slot that's bothering to question your third party self aligned faction, and you're literally making shit up to throw shade on us. That's supposed to be a co-incidence?

~Drixx

Stop stealing my shit. Also, stop interfering with questions I've leveled at other players. You just torpedoed the shit out of a question I aimed at farside that had utility based upon how she answered it. Why?

The tone of these two posts is very, very different and doesn’t make me any less suspicious of your slot.

The first is an insinuation that the only reason I suspect you is OMGUS because you are the only person “looking into” whether the Crystal Gems are scum. The underlying point it so say that my suspicion of you can only be because of that reason and thus I am very possibly scum.

The second post is very much someone addressing a player they believe is Town and showing frustration that they aren’t “playing nice”.

These posts came back to back from the same hydra head and the dichotomy is pretty jarring.

As to the substance of those posts –

I very much like that you ignore the part of my original post where I said the reason that quickly came to mind. I’ve been suspect of you from the minute you dismissively said “Go jump in a lake you don’t know crap” when I corrected you regarding Yume. That attitude comes from a place of someone who wants to just have their “authority” unquestioned and I don’t see it as generally Pro-Town. Can it come from Town. Certainly. But it is enough to put me on alert. Then I’ve noticed your focus has been strongly on role mechanics all of today and specifically you look to be undermining Yume and the Crystal Gems. Yet out of the other side of your mouth your hydra supposedly is “one of the most tolerant” of players in regards to 3rd parties. Again a dichotomy. Lastly none of your posts about who is scum seem to reflect this suspicion. If there is a 4+ member Crystal Gems 3rd Party group that is absolutely not completely aligned with Town then any an all analysis of the Mafia team make-up should be significantly impacted. But I don’t recall seeing you say anything along the lines of “Hmmm, that many Crystal Gems who aren’t Town and scum should be at most 3 to 4 members otherwise the game doesn’t make sense from a balance standpoint”. Please correct me if I am wrong. So attempting to boil my suspicion of your play today to OMGUS is another tick in the “Hmmm, that seems suspect” box.

As to “stealing your shit” – get over yourself. I posted exactly what I did because wasting more time with your “carefully plotted build of suspicion” is a waste of time given the game-state. Farside’s play has been completely not Town. You (and other) have been jumping through hoops when the second Farside said “I’m not lynchable and the Day will reset” the wagon should have reached lynch status. If she wasn’t lying then more time was preserved to move to another viable scum suspect. But dragging it out only served to reduce the discussion time if she is telling the truth. Cutting to the chase and ending the fence-sitting was absolutely the best Town move.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It was only today, when mastin revealed that she and Yume DID NOT possess the same information, and Yume undertook a distinctly anti-town (though possibly pro-gem) stance regarding flipping klingon, that I was forced to press her to reconcile those actions with her stated pro-town win condition.

It was the CONTRADICTION between her stated goal and her actions that caused a problem for me, NOT the fact that she is third party. That's irrelevant.

So once again – you didn’t wait for mastin to clear up things and leapt to assumptions about a contradiction that frankly didn’t exist. Because there is an aspect to Klingon being unflipped that still is probably not known to you and changes the equation completely.

I’ve redacted the rest of the post because I don’t care whether you both think you are the gods of Mafia or not and regardless of all the nice pretty words posted here your actions today show an underlying goal of making sure the status of the Crystal Gems has been as muddled as possible. Which I don’t see as very Town oriented thinking if you supposedly think the Gems are Pro-Town.

So you say, but we ONLY HAVE YOUR WORD FOR IT.

Your win con not flipping is really shitty if Varsoon really designed it that way.

Of course, the fact that your win con doesn't flip IS weak evidence that you actually ARE designed as an X person masonry, because without the automatic clearing of other members that comes from a pro-town win con, the strength of said masonry is notably reduced...but that doesn't make it impossible for you to be working towards your own ends.

I mean hell, flavorwise, maybe all you guys need to do to win is remove jaspar, and recruit lapis/peridot/bismuth. That would put your win con aligned with town assuming jaspar is the traitor, while still allowing you to win through some other means the removing ALL the scum.

And this is the kind of post that supports my suspicion.

Do you believe Mastin has a Masonry with Yume or not? This isn’t a trick question.

If you do all your “We can only take your word for it” is empty fluff since the existence of a Masonry assures that it is meaningless to continue to poke holes and undermine.

If you don’t why do you treat Mastin as confirmed Town?

The Gems win when Town wins and lose when Town loses. Simple as that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I was going to vote Snarky but then I read Mastin’s 8167 and said – fuck that. I’m not supporting his ego-trip if he’s not going to re-adjust if it is shown that he is dead wrong.

@Titus

– other than Snarky who else can we lynch today. Because Mastin is too self-centered for me to want to let him drive the train.

--

1) you can lynch someone by yourself, barring a restriction saying you can't lynch without someone else on the wagon

I thought I was positive that there was something in the rule-set specifically about no single player being able to swing a lynch by themselves but a quick spin through the rules had me come up empty.

I may be able to do a more detailed read later.

--

My role PM doesn't say that

You're confscum thanks

And yet no vote of farside …

[MagnaofIllusion]

I believe mastin has a neighborhood with Yume, and that as a result of that hood being created yume learned mastin was town, and mastin learned Yume was Steven.

That doesn't sound like a masonry to me, and it actually can't be a masonry, since mastin is not aware, via mod confirmation, of Yume's win condition.

Mastin disagrees with you …

It's NOT an alliance.

It's a masonry.

It does not count as an alliance.
It does not function in any way shape nor form as an alliance.
Hell.
Even the topic we have doesn't work like an alliance, thanks to being active full-time, day and night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It is

probable

(imo, and I think Cerb would agree) that the Crystal Gems are compatible with us. It is not something that we

know

by any stretch, nor is it something we have enough information TO know. There are other possibilities that could be in play here. Varsoon delights in coming up with new things and seeing how those new things impact the play and rhetoric of mafia. Most of you in the game have to admit that it's distinctly possible that this game is a three way brawl where each faction has its own win condition. We would be making less of an issue of ensuring that people are AWARE of this possibility if things had played out differently. Assuming the wincon for the CGs is what Yume told us it is, then there were a whole bunch of moves made that just served to make it harder to take that at face value.

I would best describe my current mindset as warily trusting. I think the flavor of the show argues for the Gems (really Steven moreso than the gems) being protective of humans and Earth; however, the flavor of the show also deals with the idea of the homeworld gems vs. the crystal gems and the collateral damage caused by their conflict, and if THAT is the particular angle this game is focusing on, then things may not be as they have been claimed.

Pointing out a possibility and saying keep it in mind is prudent. We're being prudent. I'm really quite sorry if the CG wincon is what we were told and anything we've said has offended someone who was assigned to that faction this game, but that's mafia. If you aren't actually sharing my wincon, then your wincon is secondary to me until I know, FOR SURE, that you winning doesn't mean I lose. And given that people were talking about members of a THIRD PARTY FACTION with terms like "conftown", it's prudent to point out that they may not actually be.

Can we just leave it at that? We lack the necessary hard information to really take this discussion any further. I mean ... if you guys have a different win con and feel like you want to just come clean, that would certainly let us all know where we stand relative to one another. But ... if you have the wincon we were told, we can't know that for sure until we see. If your wincon is not compatible to ours, you have every reason to hide that fact and so we come back to Prudence. We're simply being prudent.

~Drixx

Thanks for this overly word explanation that can be generically summed up as saying "We are playing Mafia, we can't see your Role Pms".

The irony is that you were earlier selling my suspicion of you with "OMGUS" when this is exactly why I have questions and some concerns about your slot. I see posting that doesn't to me ring true and a massive focus on what you are selling as "being prudent". I can't see your Role PM and am not going to "just take your word for it". Thus you are in my suspicion pool.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: DGB

While I have others I'd prefer lynched I'm going to follow Titus's suggestion.

All 3 of his scumreads this game have been 0-100. Stances are positions, not processes.

Welcome to playing Mafia with SnarkySnowman.

Seriously. Go through his threads and look at any completed games. Look at the how he communicates his suspicions pretty much regardless of alignment as far as I can tell.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm thinking of hammering him.

Plus I said I would.

My issue with dgb is I don't see dgb/snarky scum team and snarky like I said is lurking more the usual and despite what Shiro says this game,

snarky does explain things more then he does and can flutter between wagons if he thinks players are scum. Currently he's only listed 2 scum reads and lurked a lot.

Note that DGB stands a good chance to be opposite alignment from Farside - both have vote manipulation powers, both claim Ascetic. Farside who if she wasn't lying scum should be thrilled to flip DGB to say "Hey look, that's scum and scum aren't going to have TWO vote manipulators, etc".

Instead she's going to hammer despite being asked not to with the bolded lie above. Snarky absolutely lurks as Town all the fucking time. I can link to TONS of games proving just that.

Scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah I know im town.
Dgb manipulation is very different then mine.
Hers takes from a player, my votes are earned by points.
Also if you paid attention to day 3, math claimed ascetic and flipped town, sooooo....? Point?

Look at the lawyering going on here ... trying to find differences to somehow suggest that the points weren't valid. Strawman nitpicks away!!!!

The point that you can't argue is that you should, if you were actually Town, be on DGB like frat boys on beer and chicken wings given their claim. It mirrors your very closely (with obvious mechanical differences) and makes lots of sense as an opposite alignment counterpoint.

But you shy away from the flip like a non-Twilight vampire about to be throw out into the noon-day sun.

Also note the complete dodge on the SnarkySnowman bullshit fabrication I pointed out.

Scum. Scum who can't even keep track of things given TODAY is Day 3.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'd lynch this in a heartbeat if snarky flips scum too.
Focus more on dgb flip and false conclusions.
Nevermind never explain those scum reads prior with rr/sky/firemyself.

When did dgb get into this scum read?

Lol. You aren't ever lynching me farscum ... keep up the bravado though!!!

DGB isn't really a scum read. If you weren't scum scrambling for any foothold you'd have noticed DGB is a compromise on my part based on confirmed Town Titus's suggestion.

I'd still lynch you immediately if I could get momentum going that direction.

[MagnaofIllusion]

See if you believed the crap you were selling with me vs dgb you would have said that a long time ago, you look like your just using it because you know better.

Still not addressing your lie about Snarky's play?

Why keep dodging that Farscum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

"i'd lynch you if Snarky flips scum"
"you aren't even lynching me"
so... Snarky will flip scum, Magna? c=

Is your reading comprehension bad? I just said I'd lynch farside NOW over DGB if I was given the chance.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not a lie.

You want links?

If it wasn't bullshit you'd already have provided them.

But here are some for you ... all with Snarky Town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66137

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66176

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=65953

Not a single one where Snarky wasn't a non-dynamic lurking Town player.

[MagnaofIllusion]

yes, i know. and before that, farside said to lynch you if Snarky flipped scum. to which you replied, "good luck lynching me, farscum", implying that Snarky would flip scum. since farside only said she would lynch you on the condition of Snarky flipping scum.

That's a pretty slanted reading I have to say given Farside has been floating a scum read on me since I've called her scum upon replacing in.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Or you should provide links that prove different moi

Classic scum 101 argument - makes a point that is called into question and can't actually provide links herself. Instead asks those refuting her to prove her wrong.

Except it was easy for me to do. Ooops, tactical error there farscum.

Where are your links again? Still waiting ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI why is Farside more lynch worthy than DGB??????

Hey Fuzzylogic who is scum? I don't recall you saying much of anything today.

Is DGB scum? Is Farside scum?

Join in the debate!

[MagnaofIllusion]

sure, sure.
i mean, you quoted her saying she'd lynch you if Snarky flipped scum, then said no, she wouldn't be able to lynch you...
but, surely you weren't responding directly to her then. my mistake.

i'm just saying. if it were me, i would have said something like, 'and who will you lynch if Snarky flips town?' or 'then i'll lynch you when Snarky flips town'.
instead, you ignored the 'if' case even though you responded to it. :>

Do you expect everyone to play exactly like you? This is more from a standpoint of general knowledge.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is such obvious scum talk back it hurts.

And in this thread we see that farside has nothing left to use but Ad Homenium.

It's ok farside ... I know it is frustrating to be scum getting tunnelled by someone and flailing about with whatever you can to try to get them off you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also that's not the point,,,,,, I wanted MOI to answer. stop defending MOI. Its getting a bit on my nerves

See you misunderstand the situation.

I’m one of the Crystal Gems. Thus unless you want to float a “MoI is scum recruited to the Crystal Gems” theory (which farscum tried to float earlier and is incorrect since this slot was there from the very start) you probably need to re-orient your game state read.

Either way I don’t really feel the need to justify my position to you who I don’t see as having done much of anything today. So your irritation is really of minimal concern to me. There are enough Town confirmed players (Titus, Mastin), other players I know are part of the Crystal Gems, and players I don’t think are likely scum that PoE is very strong for me (and the other Crystal Gems). So parsing you via getting you to explain your reasoning is of interest to me. “Proving” myself to you is so far down the list of things I would worry about that it might as well not exist.

That lay things out more clearly?

SirCakez's role has been revealed. He was Doc, Leader of the Rubies, aligned with The Threats to Earth.

Please reconcile this theory with the Sir Cakez flip of “Threat to Earth” which doesn’t sound 3rd party to me.

SirCakez's role has been revealed. He was Doc, Leader of the Rubies, aligned with The Threats to Earth.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wow, rip Yume.

I am shocked about this.

Crap, I can't believe they killed Yume!

Of all the reactions to Yume’s untimely demise these look the most manufactured to me. Would wager at least 1 scum here.

Also – 8450 is another post right out of Firebringer’s scum tool belt.

--

Magna I'm allying with you and a50 just letting you know.

Ok.

--

Unless someone can offer some compelling reason to proceed otherwise, please let's get votes off and onto Farside. Don't put her at L-1 until we can co-ordinate, and let us hammer her. She won't be able to escape it by any means.

Wish we had done this …

[MagnaofIllusion]

@magna, can y'all observe each other's hoods?

Somehow missed this earlier - do you mean can I see Yume's hoods? Or other Crystal Gem hoods?

Nope. I can chat with the other Crystal Gems as a group but not see their individual alliances.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, that is what I thought.

I am suspicious of Xfku though. He needs to fullclaim to you, but do not fullclaim to him until we trust X.

I had expected he will be full-claiming so we are on the same page.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Yume passed away as a martyr to save the rest of us? *Sigh*
This quite changes a lot.

@MoI:

We need to agree on a 3rd for our alliance and get them to confirm they're submitting us both as well. I'll let you pick, but I don't want anyone "questionable", as it's already has been announced that I might end up with a shitload of info/analysis from RR that I would need to pass along.

Also, a reminder: Since The Cluster already went off then we no longer need to worry about not using night actions. In other words, all investigative/informative/protective Town Roles are free to perform their actions tonight.

As long as it works I'll list you as my primary and no secondary. I thought grapes was the third but if you have other ideas use them as you primary and me as your secondary.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sorta back from V/LA – going to be a busy day today and tomorrow …

Not sure what to make of 8657 given that it was entirely Pro-Scum to not claim that ability before using it and the excuse of “not sure what it did” makes little sense to me.

And we know for certain someone was covering for Skybird on Mastin in the Beachapalooza ...

And as I said to Almost in our alliance chat – since DGB’s flip means that Farside is much less likely to be scum and just Town foolishly playing to an alternate 3rd party wincon I’m putting her on ignore the rest of the game.

I’m also taking the action list (and the three players TWIE says he made honest) with a grain of salt until the point that TWIE is confirmed Town by the Mod.

--

@MoI, is your gem chat anonymous?

Nope. The gem chat is via MS username.

Clod event owner should claim.

I don’t think that’s necessarily wise at this juncture given the outcome.

Jasper gets a pearl account. Pearl claimer needs to be pressured. Giving a pearl account with a pearl alive doesn't make sense.

Almost has stated why this is outguessing the Mod and I agree with his conclusion.

--

I didn't get an alliance.

Magna and almost what happened?

Almost’s last second “You choose the third” post messed things up. Not happy but it is what it is at this point.

--

and I would love to know not chara's role

Why?

--

@gems(MoI, specifically, since you've been directly outed): Do you know the alignment of the flips you're delaying?

No. NotChara hasn’t been flipped yet due to the fact that NC was overwhelmingly likely to be Town due to the Beach Party Maths and other factors. I haven’t gotten a chance to do some investigation and probably will not be able to do much til Wednesday. Just an FYI.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI can you make sure that NC is flipped before we hammwe? Then we can know whether or not kraska needs to use his ability.

-Cerb

Personally I'm not flipping an almost certain Town player when other things are possibly in play.

Have kraska use his ability if you are that concerned about the current status.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Did some digging ...

If Not Chara is Town as is reasonable to be believed then grapes is overwhelmingly likely to be Town as well given how Night 1 turned out.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I strongly am in favor of Kraska using the ability to move away from Slice of Life ASAP today so the issue is settled well in advance of lynch.

--

Why do you want us to use an ability when the same effect can be achieved by simple cooperation?

Unless you think kraska is scum, it does not make sense to force him to use this power.
-Cerb

Why would you continually ask for things that may not be Pro-Town and try to hide it under the guise of cooperation.

Not Chara is overwhelmingly likely to be Town. There are multiple other things at play that flipping her now would eliminate. I’m very curious why you are so dead set on flipping Chara when a reasonable alternate method of defusing the Slice of Life problem.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because one method requires the expenditure of NO resources, while one requires using a power which (I assume) has limited usages.

If we WASTE (and yes, it would be a waste if NC is town and the only point would be to keep scum from having a strongman kill tonight) kraskas ability right NOW, it means we can't use it LATER when we may not have an alternative method to use.

Again, how is this so fucking hard to understand?

-Cerb

Not Chara put it best - she's worth more than an Exposition only Season Finale only ability we might never get use from again.

So you can rant and rave all you want but that's not changing what is happening.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

The Crystal Gems as a whole are the flip gate-keepers so these two lines really make not one lick of sense coming back to back ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Titus seems to be resisting the idea that the flips are controlled by you guys, because it's anti-town aa fuck for you to be deliberately forcing a slot you should believe is town to use a power she has when you can make that unnecessary (a power which, btw, challenges the gems ability to control the stress level through deciding when flips occur...wonder why they'd want THAT to get wasted?).

Not Chara keeps saying her scum-read on your is growing ...

Do you think she is scum? Yes or no?

Because if you don't you have demonstrated knowledge of at least 1 of the reasons keeping her bubbled might be a good idea. And the fact that not immediately flipping her has given me info that solidifies my grapes Town read is another plus.

I'll patiently wait for whatever answer you might produce but I'll be clear - I don't give a rats ass if you like how the Gems are using the ability to stall immediate death for certain players.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Phone posting at rest stop during 12 hour drive.

No Alliance. Pissed that Random flaked out on Gem chat and my post about allying.

Creature absolutely needs to explain how he had a Night action result he shared with XK and Shadow in their PT overnight if Town was supposed to be foregoing actions to prevent the Scum event. He's prob scum was XK and my conclusion.

Farside should have been taken care of days ago like I said. Too bad players like RR spent too much time fighting Titus and me on that end.

VOTE: farside to demonstrate lack of vote power.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, back from hell weekend and catching up –

First I’m going to drop in this which I’ve been posting in my various PTs overnight …

Beach Result Tracking

–

Rational: mastin (+1)

Skybird: mastin (+.5)

Almost: mastin

(+1)

Mastin: self (+3)

Yume: mastin (+1)

Result – 7, known 6.5

Chara: self (+3)

Farside: Chara (+2)
Result - 5

Titus: self (+3)

Kraska: Titus (+1)

Xkfyu: Titus (+1)

Grapes: Titus (+1)

total: 6

Shiro: none

Snarky: none

DGB: none

Random: none

Fuzzy: none (didn't answer?)
TWIE: none

Creature: shadow step

Magna: voted Rational

Shadow step: Almost

Fire: Rational

McMenno: self

So blue is confirmed Town (via flips, Mod communication) or players who I am confident enough to gamble the game calling Town.
Red is Mafia scum.

With kraska cancelling the event I'd slot her just below blue status and would not be pushing on her today.

For farside to be scum they need two additional scum voting with her to make the numbers come out correct on Not Chara.
For RR to be scum they need two additional scum voting with them and Skybird to make the numbers come out correct on Mastin.

Those scenarios are going to be exclusionary - you aren't going to get both RR and farside as scum together because that would require too many scum players at this stage - if you want to fight me on it that's fine but 7 scum traitor or no is too many given the absolute strength of the Mafia event powers displayed this game.

Personally if I had to choose one I'd choose RR as scum over farside. I can see farside as just playing terrible.

Regardless the pool where scum are overwhelmingly like to be hiding is (Creature, Shiro, Shadow, TWIE, fuzzy). Because the pool of players who be covering Skybird is getting smaller by the second.

Don't like my PoE? Do your own. I don't give a rats ass about people whining.

Up next - catch-up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Creature
I’ve hashed this out with Almost in our Alliance PT and Xk in the Gem PT. Creature looks absolutely like scum to me. His explanation for having a Night result that he should not have as Town “I wasn’t paying attention” doesn’t fly with me. He’s made an effort in several games to explain to me that my impression of him as a weak player who does nothing helpful as Town is incorrect and that I had just caught him in a few “bad games” that gave me that impression. Yet here he’s actively trying to cultivate that as a defense. It’s crap. 9359 is so beyond the scope of what is reasonable given the copious discussion in thread that I’m surprised anyone buys it at all.

Furthermore interactions / posts by Sir Cakez and Skybird both make sense as partners. Specifically 934 by Cakez looks very much like defense of a partner ... especially since we know both Titus and Xk are not scum. Not how Cakez attacks the votes but says “Creature is perfect null” which isn’t a reason at all to think those votes are bad. Skybird’s 1012 is very much in line with that also – attacking Xk for “sucking up to Titus” with a Creature vote while not making any comments on Creature’s play.

I can make a full case if anyone is interested but I doubt there will be much from this player-list.

--

I’ve thought it over and Farside’s abilities don’t make any sense as someone who can actively help scum achieve their wincon. That amount of Vote Control would be tantamount the mistake Varsoon made in “XXX Mafia” where he let two scum basically quick-lynch Town over and over to win the game. He’s not making that mistake again given the flack he caught post-game there. So slotting her as playing badly and not interested in a lynch on her with the game-state as it is now. Too many Town dead.

Which means RR is a very viable scum candidate via Beach-a-Palooza. Especially seeing their 9167 where they say “It doesn’t matter that their abilities don’t make sense as scum – they used it to hurt Town”. That’s a classic scape-goating argument which I would expect from scum not Town. Town understands that not lynching scum is very bad for Town. Scum want to facilitiate lynches on targets they can swing as looking like scum when they clearly aren’t.

@Almost

– I know you read RR as Town but I’d like you to really dig in and think about the way RR is playing today independent of that read.

--

Fuzzy controlled the lynch event yesterday, and was given the chance to lynch snarky with no accountability. Given that snarky flipped town, there's little reason for scum!fuzzy to not take the opportunity to get a free kill. Since he did not, it is very unlikely that fuzzy is scum, UNLESS one of his teammates was likely to be lynched if fuzzy wasn't around to draw the heat.

Of course this whole train of questionable logic revolves around the notion that Fuzzy told the truth that Snarky was the even winner. I’m interested why you, the supposedly super analytical and effective hydra, didn’t organize a “Who voted for Who” poll like the Beach-a-palooza event to see if Snarky actually looked like the winner. That would be in line with what a Town super analytical player would do. Did I miss you doing that in the deluge of Mastin versus Titus flooding the thread? I don’t think I did.

--

@magna is there a good reason why you kept the chara flip hidden, keeping stress low and giving scum unstoppable kills?

I don’t know – maybe because you had a claimed Season Finale restricted ability that would have rendered flipping Not Chara who is doing fantatic work in the communication PT and is confirmed Town moot?

Why did you not use your ability? I assume it was not the same ability you used to cancel the scum event today.

--

The way scum are triggering their events, anyone opposing farside22 lynch looks like scumclaiming.

This is literally scum posting.

I doubt there's scum in Rational/Almost/Mastin

And I’m absolutely warming up to Creature – RR being partners from posts like this. Look earlier in his ISO. Notice how RR was in his "scum in this group" and yet he never, ever pushes that read. Now, gamestate looking slightly less daunting, and RR is absolutely Town. Very much distancing when it looked necessary and abandoning it now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Kraska used her individual event to cancel out a mostly useless scum factional event.

And allowing for a scum lynch without a double scum kill is useless to Town again exactly how? Please explain in full this line of thought for me.

--

We need to lynch farside today. They are too dangerous and their behaviour indicates we can't leash them.

Make sure to read the Crystal Gem PT Random.

[MagnaofIllusion]

oh...so you were able to communicate with chara after they were removed with the game?

Still am. In fact that reminds me -

Not Chara's preference for lynch today is TWIE, Shiro and Creature in approximately that order.

[MagnaofIllusion]

welp.

Creature is the only player besides you getting lynched today. Don’t feel the need to vote him, or even pretend to be Town?

--

but I'm not getting lynched today and I don't want to use my ultimate defenses either. We have TWIE (and even farside22).

See this absolutely needs more votes.

Even more so when you consider the following – he has a claimed result of 4 facts on a player, 3 of which are true and 1 of which is false (according to Creature). The facts, per Xk, are:

1. An event requiring +1 stress or higher
2. NK immunity
3. Allies get “passive rewards” (whatever that means, Xk had to paraphrase)
4. Has an investigation ability to learn info on actions other players perform.

According to Xk Creature was asking them if this was a scum profile or not. But not a peep from Creature in thread about this result today. Especially to ask other players like RR / Almost / Mastin who he says are totes Town.

This is because he’s scum who isn’t actually interested in finding scum but wanted to look “Town” in his Alliance PT.

--

That's not what I said. Nobody was getting lynched today because of only two people being able to vote.
What exactly is the huge scum benefit to activate this event, they get a free kill at night.
What is the benefit for scum kraska to cancel this event? Town cred, lots of it
This event has the most utility in lylo/mylo, just activating this would give scum the win. Why was it activated so early?
It would make sense that it was planned all along for scum to activate it and then Kraska cancels it for town cred.

Well let’s tackle some of the points I need addressed –

1. Why do you assume that event was useable in LYLO/MYLO?
2. Do you think Kraska is scum? Yes or No.
3. Why do you think there has to be “Huge Scum Benefit” given the power of their other scum events (the Cluster and Remote Detonation were overpowered as hell)?

--

@Almost

– I forgot to ask earlier – did your Night action bear any fruit? I would have expected to see something from you on it but have to ask.

Or maybe her vote manipulation ability allowed her to cast enough votes on her own!

Well if that’s the case we are still back to where we were before – scum are still overwhelmingly in (Creature / Shiro / Shadow / TWIE / Fuzzy) with an increased possibility of RR scum under that fact pattern.

TWIE's action fail @-4 make me hesitant to vote his way.

Why? I have to ask since you would have to take TWIE’s word his actions on it 100%.

Creature's too scummy to actually be scum at this point (you didn't understand the counter for defusing the Cluster you say?!

Please ask them what they think about TWIE's action fail claim. I would very much appreciate their input on this one. Thank you.

I pointed her in your direction for response but she can still read the thread so just ask her questions directly

1- My memory id failing me, but weren't you in Bloodbourne? Nahdia basically won the game for scum single handedly. Giving scum that much power is not beyond Varsoon.

No, I wasn’t in that game. I did read it and I don’t think for a second that after the post-game shitfest that went on about how Nhadia’s ability to basically strongarm lynches was stupid and made the game not really Mafia that he’d revisit that mechanic with scum so quickly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm saying his actin fail makes him likely Town.

Then again it is certainly within reason that he doesn't have a Vig power and made that up when the "Gunsmith guilty" came in on him as scum, correct?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't. I specifically said "unless he is lying to earn these specific town points". However, he does have a gun (Mastina's result on him) and

he had a shot last night

(unless he was blocked), so WHERE is his shot?

Walk me through this like I'm 5 - where is the source for the bolded ... I don't recall other than his own word about that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Not Chara has provided some input to be passed along. I’m paraphrasing this so if you have specific questions let them fly –

To Almost – “TWIE should be in your lynchpool today because he’s done nothing that makes Not Chara think he’s Town and his claimed action failing doesn’t clear that up for NC. Chara doesn’t believe he’s faking his Stress -4 kill always succeeding confusion and that if he is Mafia Titus is who he actually killed. Finally all Mafia get positive Gunsmith results”

--

General read pools:

Super Town – Mastin, Almost, Grapes
Likely Town via reads or Mechanics – Shadow, Fuzzy, Kraska.
Suspicious of, not for lynch today – RR, Farside with a preference for RR first
Lynchpool – TWIE, Shiro, Creature, Random (with the caveat that if Random is confirmed to me to ignore Random)

Chara thinks Kraska’s abilities make sense as Mayor Dewey and are very ProTown.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The result was on randomidget though.

Having taken a look at Random's Role PM this clearly is a lie since only 2 of the 4 apply.

Can we lynch this with fire already?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why would I blatantly lie as scum?

Lol as if scum don't blatantly lie ...

Here's a current feed of Creature right now ..

[MagnaofIllusion]

The result was on randomidget though.

Having taken a look at Random's Role PM this clearly is a lie since only 2 of the 4 apply.

Can we lynch this with fire already?

you can see randoms actual role PM?

You seem to be under the impression that I care about your thoughts. Given your earlier response to me I filed you in the "Ignore and lynch soon" pile.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I also have a 1-shot of the ability to investigate someone. I'll get 1/4 of the info correct, if the stress is high, I'll get 3/4.

Interesting that you didn't specify how high stress needed to be to get your 3/4 result ... why is that?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I wanted to claim what I wanted, not entirely.

Pregame: Blog post and allied with Snarky.
Night 1: Blog post and tried to ally with Shiro.
Night 2: Blog post and allied with SnarkySnowman.
Night 3: Investigated randomidget, blog post and allied with Shadow_step and Xkfyu.
Night 4: Blog post and tried to ally with grapes.

So what you are saying is that Night 3 – when stress going into Night was +2, you were allied with Snarky Snowman and you successfully got a 3 of 4 investigation of result on random that just happened to be redirected to Almost.

So I either have to believe that Mod screwed up since you were allied with Snarky and thus your Climax action should have failed or I have to believe you are lying …

Which one do you think makes the most sense?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Farside

- Not Chara has a question that she wants you to confirm.

Please explicitly state whether your Ascetic power protects you from Nightkills or not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

"Pearls aren't for this! They're for standing around, and looking nice, and holding your stuff for you... right?"

-Peridot,

Back to the Barn

VOTECOUNT 3.12 : LYNCH

DrippingGoofball (LYNCH):

Thefuzzylogic99, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, Creature, Titus, Shiro, Firebringer, grapes, McMenno, Farside22, Not Chara

SnarkySnowman (2):

mastin2, TheWayItEnds

Farside22 (1):

Almost50

Shadow_Step (1):

Kraskaeaque

Not Voting (5):

Shadow_Step, Xkfyu, DrippingGoofball, Reasonably Rational, randomidget

With 20 Alive, it takes 11 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-22 19:50:00)

The Current Stress is +2:

Nope

[MagnaofIllusion]

More info from Not Chara since I am now Chara’s personal delivery Gem …

General

– Chara absolutely wants TWIE to be the lynch today for doing no scum-hunting but being here to whine like a child.

@RR

– Beach event proves there are several scum in the “Non-Voters” do not lynch farside, lynch in the Non-Voters even if you think farside is scum. This is directly to you from Chara.

@kraska

– Chara gives you a “thumbs up” from “mom Maheswaran”.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welp, I misunderstood things, there were never any Tragic Destiny.

So 1/4 of these is correct.

But that's a lie also since 2 of the 4 do apply ...

Tough getting your lies called out and catching you, huh?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So aside from the relational tells with Skybird and SirCakez we have Creature "not knowing" how the Cluster event worked, claiming an action that per the Mod confirmed flip of Snarky should not have worked, claiming to have 3/4 pieces of information that do apply to Almost (but not his claimed target Random) then backpedalling and saying he has 1/4 pieces of information which can't be accurate per Almost given that Almost has already stipulated 3/4 are accurate for him.

Lynch this ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Pregame: Blog post and allied with Snarky.

Night 1: Blog post and tried to ally with Shiro.
Night 2: Blog post and allied with SnarkySnowman.
Night 3: Investigated randomidget, blog post and allied with Shadow_step and Xkfyu.
Night 4: Blog post and tried to ally with grapes.

No, I allied with randomidget on Pregame but the alliance was open during Day 1 and Night 1.

But wait ... before you said Snarky was your Day 1 and Night 1 alliance ...

Bolded for everyone to see.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I suggest players get their Alliances in order for tonight ASAP ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@NC: there are 4 slots among the voters(if we exclude conftown and gems),

who have one scum among them, and the rest will be confirmed as town once we find the scum in that group

. I'm VERY sure that scum is Farside22, and would much prefer to create 3 more conftown today, than 1)create this same situation tomorrow, if we hit scum outside of the voters, or 2) mislynch+change that pool to a 50/50.

You do understand that the bolded can't possibly be true, right?

Because farside as scum requires two more scum partners to silently vote for her. And we already know Skybird requires 1 scum. Which means that a minimum of 3 scum have to be in the "not voting Mastin, Not Chara, or Titus" piles. DGB is only one vote and can only work if she linked up with scum before the Beach-a-palooaz. So there MUST be 2 scum minimum in the "unconfirmed" voters for your Farside as scum scenario to work.

Which is why the bolded isn't true.

Again - super analytical, better than everyone else RR should have parsed that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

There's no scum flavor for Keep Beach City Weird Blog, I'm pratically conftown;

Skybird was confirmed Town for Connie flavor.

Oops ...

your blog post certainly can be a scum ability that aligns with your fake-claim. You know, just like Varsoon said that he built the scum roles to match their fake-claims ...

Why no mention of the fact your 1/4 result can't be true regardless of who it is on since Almost says it matches 3/4 and Random matches 2/4?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So what you're saying is that we're well into LAL territory here?

I'm personally willing to compromise. Creature has been in my scum pool for days (A50 can attest; I left reads with him on the assumption we might be killed before the finale). You're eviscerating him in real time.

But umm... I've made a rock solid case against Farside based upon her actions, the setup and she has lied enough times that if I quoted every lie and took the time to point out why it is a lie, it would be the longest post I've ever made in any mafia game ever. And that's saying a LOT.

So why are you opposed to lynching a slot that is dripping and oozing scumminess, could very easily be one of the leftovers and joined scum (similar to how the gems gained a leftover) after the beach-a-palooza, who has and can unilaterally end the day if we're the slightest bit careless, who has shown zero town motivation whatsoever, and has lied way more than Creature?

Show us what you see that we must be missing, because our standard for what it takes to conclude someone is scum is pretty freaking high (we can show you the effort we put into it in prior games so you can see if you don't know already) and we're sure. Us being sure means we've gone back through things with the intentionally opposite point of view and looked for any evidence we're wrong. There's just nothing there man. Seriously ... show us becuase I'm getting tired of having a pissing match with you.

~Drixx

The case on Creature is not just LaL. Let's set that correct first. He has lied and the fact that he can't get his story straight on his investigation is a part of the case. As is the fact that hes' claiming dumb on the Cluster event, the Sir Cakez and Skybird posts defending him, and his position in the Beach-a-palooza pool.

There is other stuff I haven't mentioned before - his comment on my replace in "Oh, MoI always suspects me" is scummy for being a pre-emptive attempt to undermine if I did get an early scum read. As I said - I can form a full case if people want it tomorrow morning.

As to Farside - If you are suggesting that Farside is a leftover who joined the Mafia AFTER Beach-a-palooza I need you to reconcile who else is scum. Because that means during BAPA farside was not scum and thus Not Chara is confirmed Town and keeping her from being flipped (which you yelled over and over about) is Pro-Town for reasons I know you know.

[MagnaofIllusion]

One only needed to look at Steven Universe to see that assuming someone with Day 1 access to Steven was town. Several, including us, pointed that out. Don't straw man ... it undercuts your credibility.

~Drixx

You are missing the point. If Connie-fake claim can actually be scum (which you point out that people bought) then why does Creature think his blog whatever confirms him as town and couldn't just as easily be a scum ability that matches his fake-claim?

Seriously - stay on point with the actual salient information.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, stepping away from the computer. More later or tomorrow ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

No, there doesn't have to be 2. We know that there were multiple "leftovers" because Varsoon doesn't make mistakes. That phrase "the leftovers" was plural for a reason. One of them joined the gems right? Where are the other(s)? All we need to posit for Farside to be scum is that she was a Leftover who joined scum after beach-a-palooza, and that's not even a stretch at all. It also happens to explain why she would push Not Chara to have them both vote NC, and push the idea that it made them both "conftown". If she knew she was joining scum, she accomplished a ton with that move. She obfuscated the shit out of the voting results and blunted our event's PoE value but a ton, and now you're sitting here saying she requires two unknown scum to be scum when that isn't so.

Then who else is scum besides Farside? Your "only 1 scum in these 4" makes even less sense under this scenario. I don't see how you are not getting that what you said is non-starter given you have espoused that you think there are many scum left.

[MagnaofIllusion]

idk, just to make sure, this is what I received (can't copy-paste):
randomidget has an event that can be triggered at 1 or + stress.
randomidget is selectively nightkill immune.
randomidget can secretly offer rewards to his allies.
randomidget can discover info on other player's actions.

So, your "result" had the name of randomidget EXPLICITLY mentioned in it, and you still suggested it could've been a redirect????????

So much this ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Creature still needs rope. The number of inconsistencies he’s trying to explain away with “I don’t know, Mod error, I’ll be pissed” is ludicrous.

1. His claimed action doesn’t work no matter what scenario he tries to peddle it under. His claimed result is 2 for 4 with Random which doesn’t fit either 3 for 4 or 1 for 4.
2. No explanation why his ability would work when he was allied with Snarky and Snarky’s Mod confirmed flip shows he should have been role-blocked.

Add in the fact that he tried to float he was Redirected when clearly he was not and then trying to stuff it under “I didn’t understand” with his claimed Cluster ignorance when he isn’t a Newb.

Also add in his “I’m flavor confirmed” crap.

And top it off with “Titus confirming herself as Town could easily be a scum ability” garbage

And this ..

If the Crystal Gems and Leftovers can win with mafia, we're possibly in LyLo today.

Absolute Appeal to Fear “Oh no, we could be in LYLO today if the Crystal Gems can win with scum”.

Rope it.

@Kraska

– please confirm something for me … your ability to adjust stress is not an Event, correct? If I am correct on that – please confirm whether it was one-shot or not. Thank you.

@Farside

– what happened to me being scum in the Crystal Gems? You were hammering that drum non-stop when I was trying to get you lynched. Now today, when I assess that you don’t make sense as scum or even a leftover who can join scum, you are buddy buddy with me. Are your reads that driven by who agrees with you and who doesn’t?

--

Creature is the Keep Beach City Weird player.

Does this change your analysis any?

If you actually read my posts you’d know it is meaningless to me given that Varsoon explicitliy said he prepared all the scum roles first to match their flavor fake-claims and in light of Skybird’s ability that apparently everyone and their brother assumed was Town.

--

@Almost

re 9638 – since you like to be corrected when you make leaps of logic that don’t stand up I’ll do that for you here.

The whole premise of Farside as Leftover who became scum AFTER the Beach-a-palooza event blows up your “Look at Sir Cakez Day 1 reads” logic. Basically you are saying SirCakez scum, who already had a disconnected Traitor, fully knew the identity of farside as a Leftover who could join with them Day 1 and thus his reads lists were shaped by that knowledge. For that to be true you have to believe.

1. Sir Cakez knew of the existence of a Leftover 3rd party who can join them.
2. Sir Cakez was able to fully ascertain that farside was the specific role BEFORE he started his reads lists.

The Crystal Gems did not know of the existence of a Leftover. I went back and fully read the Gem PT to be certain there was no information about that in the information Varsoon provided. You are making assumptions regarding Sir Cakez’s reads lists that aren’t likely.

So I think you have gotten your read and are now fitting the facts to support it as opposed to the other way around.

--

Also, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. We have a finite amount of currencies to win the game with. X mislynches, Y role related powers, Z events, etc... and the question yesterday was what should get used to take stress away from -4. Unfortunately, Farside unilaterally ended the day (and obviously made sure Varsoon was around, because it took literally sometime between 4 minutes and 4 minutes and 59 seconds for the thread to lock) and stress didn't move. Fortunately, that preserved Kraska's ability to adjust stress and canceled out a scum event. At the time; however, we had no way to know, and both Cerb and I felt like it made sense to use the least amount of currency to get away from -4 stress.

Now that might not be the case from your viewpoint, because you are informed completely about how the hidden flips and return to game and such works. We aren't.

See and the bolded is why I’ve been scum-reading you for awhile. You know I have more information than you about the process. Yet every time I tell you that your immediate reaction is “Gems are playing Anti-Town and might be scum” or similar. So I see you as not actually logically thinking things through but trying to establish a narrative that presents things how you want them to be perceived which is scum play. This seems to be a running theme in your posting.

The question I have is this: WHY would scum be given an ability to find out the nature of the gems, as Creature has claimed? He claims you would be notified he found out. –

The only reason the scum would need a reason to find out the nature of the gems is if they are somehow compatible.

So ummm ... if Creature is left alive and does his thing, he can both inform the town that you have told the truth (presuming you have), and you will have hard evidence that he had the ability to learn the nature of your faction. So if you don't believe scum would have that ability, the obvious course is to force him to do it, right?

And this is further “Narrative Spinning”. The bolded specifically is an assumption that you are making that has no grounding in reality. Setting aside the fact that Creature could be lying … you can’t say for certain why he might have that ability.

The “nature” of the gems might be information on how many members are alive, who is the Leader, what Factional Events we can trigger, or any other number of things that would benefit scum to know.

Yet you’ve selected a very narrow reason and are trying to stake it as the “only reason” which is not logical at all.

Frankly this post and 9628 read as attempts to save your partner so they can “prove” an ability that may not exist and even if it does isn’t alignment indicative at all.

MoI: how can you conclude I'm wrong when I did not fully define the set of players I was talking about(which I didn't do for very good reason)?

-Cerb

Look scum playing the gotcha game. Well I’ll indulge because you’ve actively opened the door – in discussing the Beach-a-palooza even there is only 1 group of players who could possibly be a PoE group – those voting outside the “Top 3 Vote Getters”. And here’s what you originally said –

@NC: there are 4 slots among the voters(if we exclude conftown and gems), who have one scum among them, and the rest will be confirmed as town once we find the scum in that group. I'm VERY sure that scum is Farside22, and would much prefer to create 3 more conftown today, than 1)create this same situation tomorrow, if we hit scum outside of the voters, or 2) mislynch+change that pool to a 50/50.

Please elaborate who your claimed 4 slots are and how a hypothetical Farside scum flip confirms 3 other players. I want the “super logical can’t miss” reasoning that you claimed was a hallmark of your slot.

Because given Not Chara was talking about the PoE pool of those not voting the Top 3 your response here is a pretty big dodge attempt if you were not talking about the same group.

[MagnaofIllusion]

There's also the worry that scum could've coordinated one of themselves to look town in Beach-a-palooza.

Look - scum posting.

The strength of Beach-a-palooza is that the math is rock solid and can't be manipulated to "look Town".

I also laugh at how RR is cleared by you via Beach-a-palooza when they clearly aren't.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You actually said a reason RR is cleared in your first statement.

Nope.

Time to put up or shut up scum.

Quote or link to what you are claiming clears RR.

I'm waiting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh and to demonstrate that Creature is scum here's my Beach-a-palooza Analysis post.

Not how RR is in no way cleared. In fact reading it I suspect them above Farside.

Can we get more Creature votes please?

Ok, back from hell weekend and catching up –

First I’m going to drop in this which I’ve been posting in my various PTs overnight …

Beach Result Tracking

–

Rational: mastin (+1)

Skybird: mastin (+.5)

Almost: mastin

(+1)

Mastin: self (+3)

Yume: mastin (+1)

Result – 7, known 6.5

Chara: self (+3)

Farside: Chara (+2)
Result - 5

Titus: self (+3)

Kraska: Titus (+1)

Xkfyu: Titus (+1)

Grapes: Titus (+1)

total: 6

Shiro: none

Snarky: none

DGB: none

Random: none

Fuzzy: none (didn't answer?)
TWIE: none

Creature: shadow step

Magna: voted Rational

Shadow step: Almost

Fire: Rational

McMenno: self

So blue is confirmed Town (via flips, Mod communication) or players who I am confident enough to gamble the game calling Town.
Red is Mafia scum.

With kraska cancelling the event I'd slot her just below blue status and would not be pushing on her today.

For farside to be scum they need two additional scum voting with her to make the numbers come out correct on Not Chara.
For RR to be scum they need two additional scum voting with them and Skybird to make the numbers come out correct on Mastin.

Those scenarios are going to be exclusionary - you aren't going to get both RR and farside as scum together because that would require too many scum players at this stage - if you want to fight me on it that's fine but 7 scum traitor or no is too many given the absolute strength of the Mafia event powers displayed this game.

Personally if I had to choose one I'd choose RR as scum over farside. I can see farside as just playing terrible.

Regardless the pool where scum are overwhelmingly like to be hiding is (Creature, Shiro, Shadow, TWIE, fuzzy). Because the pool of players who be covering Skybird is getting smaller by the second.

Don't like my PoE? Do your own. I don't give a rats ass about people whining.

Up next - catch-up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I doubt there's more than 6 scum.

One scum died early. Therefore up to 4 scum could've voted farside22 (as there's no .5 in the number of votes).

6 total scum including DGB or not? I want to be absolutely clear on how you come to your conclusions.

Also, scum doesn't have much coordination there as all PTs were locked, right?

Don't think so. I didn't have an Alliance that day but I know the Crystal Gems PT was open. I assume other PTs were also.

[MagnaofIllusion]

6 total scum including DGB or not?

Including DGB.

Well then with 6 total scum, including DGB, we have the following scenario -

Sir Cakez is dead. 5 living scum.

Skybird is confirmed scum. 1 of the remaining scum must be covering for her.

That leaves 3 scum including DGB free.

Farside scum requires 2 scum covering for her, leaving 1 scum free to cover elsewhere or just not vote the Top 3.

Farside not-scum leaves 3 scum to cover elsewhere or not vote the Top 3.

Neither of these scenarios excludes RR scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Still think we should go after the non-topwagoners first, it's possible all scum are there.

Agreed. Which is why I am voting you.

Who are you voting again?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Still think we should go after the non-topwagoners first, it's possible all scum are there.

Still want to see what others think about farside22 before voting TWIE.

Why would you be waiting to see what others think about farside if you really believed the first statement?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because farside can win with scum.

And your proof of this is?

[MagnaofIllusion]

She said that.

Quote Farside saying she can win with scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Though, I am pretty sure Titus said that she said that.

I'm pretty sure Titus thought she was scum but had no Mod confirmed information.

And given that you claim to not understand the Cluster mechanic or even how to translate your Night results you'll be excused if I don' take "I'm sure Titus said it" as gospel.

Also because you are likely scum ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

You claim you can become a third party. Kevin doesn't make sense for the third party that is in existance.

Given the third party Titus is speaking about here is the Crystal Gems ...

yeah ... that doesn't cut it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: the pool I'm talking about should be super simple. Look at your own analysis, remove the gems and conftown from.the voters, remove grapes because he's likely town because of the whole him being shot at N1 which fits with the no kill on N1 and your knowledge of NCs claimed role, and you end up with 4 slots, only one of whom can be scum, unless the game has at least 7 scum.

This is not an answer. List the players who you think, if one flips scum, the others are confirmed Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Creature: obviously A50, myself, farside, and kraska. One scum flip in this group=3 conftown, unless there are 7+scum.

-Cerb

Scratch my previous post just saw this one.

1. Why did you "keep it a secret"?
2. Why do you think we are lynching in this group for PoE when I already read Almost and kraska as Town for other reasons and have already said I don't think farside makes any sense as scum or a Leftover that can join scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Farside scum requiring "the other two" to cover for her is more accurate. We agree that one had to cover for Sky leaving three, and farside should be one of them 3

Agreed.

Have anything to say about your SirCakez readlist and Farside as I pointed out?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I won't be answering 1. Regarding 2, why the fuck should I care what your opinions are again? Your reasons are shit, and worthless imo,.

-Cerb

@Almost

- see this is exactly why our discussion on why you are reading RR as Town falls flat for me. Because everything I see in the thread is not "Trying to solve the game" it's trying to strong-arm the game with questionable logic and posts like this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nope. I concede that it's an either/or. Only if farside started the game as scum would that SC read list analysis make any sense.

Then, to quote the Princess Bride, we are an an impasse.

I don't think there is any way Varsoon gave a role that started the game as scum the ability to stack that many votes given the other strong Events we have seen from scum combined with Skybird having a Double Vote and DGB effectively controlling two votes. Thus I don't think there is any way you can reasonably conclude that farside is group scum from the start of the game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What exactly is questionable here? No point you've raised with regards to individuals in that pool excludes them from consideration as suspects imo, and you somehow think that because you suggested we lynch in another pool, one which will likely require 2 scum flips to conftown the remainder of the pool, town should just meekly agree with your plan?

-Cerb

I'm lynching where the odds of finding scum are much greater. Frankly the only slot in that pool that makes any sense as Mafia is you. And I don't suspect I'll get enough support for that today. I'm absolutely not lynching Farside on your "reasons" which are by no means the smoking gun you seem to think they are given everything I've said on why her role, which has proven to have the ability to stack votes, makes no sense as starting scum or Leftover able to join with Mafia who already have 2 proven vote manipulating roles. So it certainly makes sense from my perspective to lynch in the pool where scum are definitely going to be found.

You can feel free to disagree but that doesn't mean I'm effectively a moron to do so.

Also I don't know what you are blathering on about "attacking" you. You were the one that opened the door stating your hydra was going to be the most successful slot at utilizing logic to solve the game. Calling you out when you have a stunning lack of logic to your posts is me finding scum intent given your claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Except she could not have stacked her votes early in the game since she first needed to gain the points for it. If I didn't pick her for Joy Ride -for instance- she would not have gained the points from destroying it. If Nobody targeted her at night she would not gain points from that either. She probably got lucky with me picking her for an event that resulted in an alliance on E1 (and as far as I can remember it was the ONLY event that resulted in an "alliance") that allowed her to gain points so early into the game and build on it.

This is not a reason why her role makes any sense as a scum role or as a role able to be join with scum. Now I'm leaning heavily on my judgement in regards to the Mod but Varsoon got absolutely killed postgame in Bloodborne Mafia for letting scum have too much voting power. I don't care if it would take farside a while longer to accumulate points if things didn't go as they did - I just can't see Varsoon giving scum a DoubleVoter, a Traitor who is effectively a Double Voter and access to the vote power Farside has. You have to keep in mind that the set-up isn't build with the current game-state in mind. Varsoon has to balance it so that if things go better for scum than they have that Town isn't decimated.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I don't reasonably think I am.

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this point I’m tired of seeing the majority of posting from RR, myself and Almost. The following players need to be more proactive about stating their thoughts on who might be scum in the following pool (Creature, TWIE, Shiro, Fuzzy, Shadow) -

Those players are Shiro, Fuzzy, Shadow, TWIE, and Random.

--

Moi: I get the creature scum read, I even understand what your going with but give me your thoughts on twie for a moment.

Didn’t want to forget this – TWIE is a PoE lynch for me. He’s a Snarky style complete useless slot and I don’t agree with anyone saying “He’s a strong late-game player”. If I wasn’t so strong on Creature as scum he’d probably be my vote.

I need to re-read Shiro myself as Xk and Almost had differing views on certain posts by them and I want to get my own view of their play.

Shadow as also strongly on Xk’s radar (he was hoping to get another chance to do a Skybird style execution on either Creature or Shadow which is why he chose to align with them but it never could get done). So a read is due there from me also.

Fuzzy I’ve felt has been lurking pretty strongly and the “He’s Town” read he seems to be getting for passing on a Town Snarky kill isn’t enough for me to ignore him as possible scum. So far I’d say he’s 3rd behind Creature and TWIE.

--

Then you proceed to suggest that we lynch in a pool which, yes has approximately a 40% chance of containing scum, compared to the 25% of my proposed pool...but my pool(AND suggested lynch) establish conftown with a single scum flip, and

restores to us the ability to discuss and play normally without being on the verge of a hammer constantly.

1. I’d love to see where you get those percentages (especially the 40%) given that the only people who should be able to actually accurately assess what the odds of any particular pool having scum are the scum themselves.
2. Your preference relies on your flawed “Farside will automatically flip Mafia” premise.
3. Almost and kraska are Town in my reads (and I’m guessing enough other players reads) that the benefit here seems to be you getting rid of a player who can make it easier for Town to hammer scum as we get closer to LYLO.
4. The bolded is a cute Appeal to Fear “Oh god there can be a quick-hammer any minute guys” when realistically if it was a valid point today would have already ended before Alliances can be established.

For example, assuming scum kill someone tonight, if ANY alliance chooses to both vote the same slot, farside can hammer them immediately. I'm not going to just sit around and let us keep playing in an environment like that. Hell, if she was conftown, I would strongly consider lynching her on principle(which would be a policy lynch at that point). With all the evidence showing she's likely scum? Easy choice.

Principle lynches and policy lynches are great for early game. Now that scum have gotten some free kills on confirmed Town and gotten the Cluster to get two more kills the time for herp-a-derp policy lynching is long gone.

I’ll make this as crystal clear for you so there can be no confusion – the only way you can realistically claim farside is Mafia is through a long, drawn out set of assumptions that aren’t in any way proven to be true. For example your “Leftover who chose to join the Mafia right after the Beach-a-palooza vote” theory doesn’t hold up to any close scrutiny. It assumes that said Leftover had a different time frame to join the Mafia or chose not to utilize it at earliest chance if it was the same timeframe as Xk (and would have to anticipate your event to do so which isn’t a reasonable assumption). It assumes that there is even a Leftover who can join Mafia which also stands a good chance of not being true given the Mafia already had a fairly powerful Traitor. And your assumption also means Nobody aside from Mastin can ever be considered Confirmed Town to you since you would have to apply the same “Choose to join after the Event” logic to all players. Yet you still want to “Confirm Town” clear people in your group of 4. There’s a pretty bad logical disconnect there and tells me you are either so tunneled on Farside as scum you aren’t thinking clearly or are scum yourself.

Pedit: stop comparing this to bloodborne. The situation is WILDLY different. Nahdia's role could hammer BY ITSELF, WITH NOBODY ELSE VOTING. Farside will always require at least 2 other votes being placed, or one other individual with a double vote and expends a resource when she votes, and has NO control over gaining that resource. One of the double voting slots thst could have assisted ber, DGB, could not coordinate with her without disabling her powers, or of course happening to link up with another scum slot, thus it would take at least 3 slots coordinating for a quick hammer to occur a la Bloodborne.

It's a FAR weaker role than Nahdias.

No. Just because it isn’t a duplicate role doesn’t mean that I should stop thinking critically. Based on that experience I highly doubt Varsoon is given scum the chance to get a role that can allow for three scum players to cast 8 votes (2 from DGB, 2 from Skybird, 4 from Farside) and force a lynch with 14-15 other players alive. Sorry, that doesn’t pass the smell test given the absolute shit-storm that when down after Bloodborne. I trust Varsoon would not want a repeat of that event. You of course disagree but given your disdain for anything I say as “crap logic” we are not exactly ever going to get on the same page even if you aren't scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@RR

– I want you to answer the following question – is Creature scum to you or not? If not I’d like you to explain how the multiple large holes in his claims and the manner in which he’s back-tracked and self-contradicted read as Town.

--

We can't have her in lylo/mylo region if it comes to that. But i'f rather lynch scum today.

Who are you voting (if you are) and who is your best bet for scum in the the pool I stated earlier?

--

Looking through Creature’s ISO I’d like to bring the following posts / facts to everyone’s attention ..

I am not upset, I just don't like when someone comes with something like "Who are your biggest townreads/scumreads? Why?"

So it upsets Creature to be asked to give input on who they think should be lynched and who should not aka Playing Mafia? At best this is a “Creature is bad at Mafia” which he’s been trying to tell me he isn’t so my other explanation is scum not wanting to be pinned down to reads early in the game.

VOTE: SirCakez

It doesn't make sense for you to whiteknight me and then put me as "perfect null"

This is absolutely correct … it didn’t make sense. At this point the only other vote on SirCakez is Snarky. So a pretty safe distancing vote.

Says he wants to lynch Cakez at 1096. Has not actually tried to engage Cakez between his vote and this point. And more generic fluff about Cakez “playing like he did in TTH” at 1131.

Yet he unvotes at 1403 after Cakez posts 1403. That isn’t a post that should have Creature unvoting saying “Ok, you are Town”. Not in the least. Read Cakez’s post. It is pretty much an empty “here are some very generic reasons why I shuffled people around on my readslist” post.

How Foxbird and Skybird are town?

And a classic distancing post from Skybird here. Read his ISO for yourself but’s he’s said absolutely nothing to this point about Skybird being scummy.

Yet his next “scum reads list” at 1924 doesn’t have Skybird anywhere on it – Xk, Shiro, RR, DGB.

Creature drops another distancing vote (this time for Skybird) at 2314. The important point to note here is that Cakez is the leading wagon. And Skybird has exactly one other vote – the vote from KTS that Creature sheeped.

By 2731 SirCakez’s wagon has jumped back up to 10 votes. And despite having said nothing since 1405 about SirCakez he makes a pretty obvious bus vote in this post.

SirCakez fake-claims and suddenly he hops right back off at 2770. Pretty classic “Maybe my partner’s fake-claim will save him” move. Which clearly didn’t work.

So at the end of Day 1 he’s distanced from both flipped non-Traitor scum. At least to my eyes it is pretty clear.

Titus nails this back in 3273 seeing exactly what I am seeing.

At 5734 he posts a reads list that Skybird (remember the player he scoffed at being Town Day 1 and had no interactions with after that point to this post) in his “Strong Town” list. And despite having Mathblade in the second tier (aka weak Town reads) votes Math at 5937 with sheeping Titus as the reason. Terrible, terrible vote if he’s Town. Makes perfect sense as scum.

Updated reads

Town: Fire, Not Chara, mastin, grapes, farside
Nulltown: Yume, Creature, Klingon, A50, CoolDog
Null: Kraskaesque, KTS, Foxbird, Skybird, Seraphim, Random, TWIE, Shiro, DGB
Nullscum: Xkfyu, Snarky
Scum: Mcmenno, Obi

Special slot who gets their own corner because I can't read them = reasonably rational

Compare this list to 5734. Note that Skybird goes from “Strong Town” to Null with absolutely not interaction and even commenting on Skybird in-between. Pretty strong sign his reads are being manufactured since he’s scum.

Creature ends Day 2 on the Math mislynch. Note who wasn’t on his reads list at 5969. That’s right, Math.

MoI has the habit of attacking me, so I better be ready.

I’ve mentioned this earlier but wanted it quoted here – this post put me on alert for Creature specifically because the pre-emptive nature of the post. To me it is meant to say “If MoI suspects me he always does” which for the record is not true.

And important factor about Day 3 I’d also like to point out – here are all the mentions of Random during this day (which is the Day he ostensibly decided to investigate him at Climax) –

There are exactly none. So ask yourself – does Town who has an investigative role decide to not investigate a claimed scum read (Like, for instance, RR or Almost since Skybird was about to be killed by Xk) over someone they’d never mentioned at all? Especially when both claimed scum reads were harder to lynch players and random is basically slotted himself as a lack-of-activity easy vote? The answer is – no.

Other posts of note –

Another distancing Skybird vote at 7165. Still no interactions and clearly Skybird was under no pressure the Beach-a-palooza day.

Don't worry, he's just flailing as he'll be lynched like the others in RR/Almost/Skybird.

Voting anywhere other than farside22, DGB and RR/Almost/Skybird should be a scum tell.

Another distancing post from Skybird.

Which alliance should I join? Xkfyu/Shadow_step or Skybird/TheFuzzylogic99?

Why is this not a Town post you say? Why should he even be debating whether to ally with Skybird if she is scum as opposed to two non-scum reads in XK and Shadow?

So I’ve just summarized all the ways Creature’s posts Day 1-3 make perfect sense as a partner lightly distancing from non-Traitor scum.

More Creature votes please!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's incorrect XK was town reading me.

No he wasn't. He told you that so you'd be more likely to ally with him with the thought he might get another chance to execute his "Trap for Clods".

[MagnaofIllusion]

TWIE if all you are going to do is puff out your chest and think your opinion of my ability at Mafia bothers me in the least you probably should go back to lurking and doing nothing.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI: did I miss something about xks event that allowed him to use it more than once?

He did until right before deadline last Night. His post in the gem PT was basically "How have we missed that my Trap for Clods was one-shot"?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: we already stated that creature has been one of our scumspects since like D3 (maybe even earlier, but not sure if I'm conflating our suspicions of him for Titus' in our D1 alliance.

His posting and contradictions today have him as exactly as likely to be scum as farside for me. Farside is prefetable because she represents a much greater threat from abilities she's displayed.

Great. Why aren’t you voting for him them given you’ve said today should be TWIE versus Creature?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah, the stress was at +1 when I got my results.

Which is still meaningless since you got a 2 of 4 result on Random which doesn't match your claim of 1 of 4 action.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Random please vote Creature when you get the chance.

Thanks!

[MagnaofIllusion]

P.S. I could also ally with random, but only if MoI sees fit and beneficial.

I would prefer if you don't ally with Random tonight ...

Grapes would be a good choice so you can hash out reads and so such with him as you did with me when we had an Alliance PT. And for other reasons you know about.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Almost

– I’m allying with Random tonight. Also get your vote back on Creature … fuzzy being scummy doesn’t mean Creature isn’t scum also.

I absolutely love how everyone pretty much ignored the long post showing Creature’s vote patterns are obvious distancing and Creature himself keeps throwing out garbage like “I’m being lynched for my results”.

Not Chara has passed on a piece of information in our PT that I think bears investigation in thread … so …

@RR

– claim your abilities please.

--

Still think scum are most likely in TWIE, Shiro and possibly TheFuzzylogic99. I think 6 scum would be too much considering how heavily powered some third parties are.

I think this game should be locked if farside22 can't win with scum.

Still voting Farside when he said this and hasn’t moved his vote. Could not be more obvious scum. I mean clearly the second quote infers that Farside isn’t Mafia if he’s deciding if farside could win WITH the Mafia.

MORE CREATURE VOTES PLEASE!

I said only the results (not target) to Shadow and Xkfyu because I didn't know whether I could tell it was a town or a scum role.

Of course you’ve never explained why you chose to investigate Random. Why was that again, especially since by the time you supposedly chose that target he was outed as a Crystal Gem?

You’ve also never given a reasonable explanation why you “forgot” that you can’t be role-blocked (which, BTW, unrestricted is a scum power and doesn’t make sense for the role you are claiming). Or why you suggested you were redirected when your results per your later claim clearly show you were not.

--

I don't get why anyone would shoot Far knowing that she was self blocking.......Either you were not paying attention or you had a sure kill on Season finale........

Farside claimed Noisy Ascetic which means she can’t be targeted by any powers BUT kills.

Does this change your opinion on the subject?

[MagnaofIllusion]

TFL triggering his power the way he did was antitown, yes...but him choosing to not execute a town slot when there would have been no repercussions towards him for doing so is a strong argument against him as scum.

Deftly avoiding the fact that his not executing Snarky as scum moved the meter to Slice of Life ( which earlier you were screaming was terrible and Pro-scum ) in this clearance of Fuzzy I see. I mean – it is a not unreasonable play for scum – pass on killing useless Town who might get lynched soon anyway (and was) to garner Town reads and hope for a chance to kill confirmed Town like Titus with the meter where it is.

Can you explain grapes, without assuming TWIE is town and thus the claim that skybirds action claim is guaranteed to be true is correct?

-Cerb

Purposefully forgetting that Not Chara protected grapes N1? Is your play here to suggest TWIE scum planted a fake result in his Event without direct knowledge that Not Chara protected grapes N1 (Not Chara never claimed his ability to grapes) in the hopes that someone would claim to have protected grapes N1 (with no other protections claimed, which allowed theories like “Scum gave up Nightkill to activate Cluster” to be floated in thread) and falsely clear grapes scum?

Honestly the amount of hoops and completely unrealistic flow-charting this would require is pretty unrealistic. Yet here you are trying to undermine a grapes Town read from Mastin.

1.) Stress remaining at -4 when I believe both the gems and Kraska had set up triggers to increase stress at a certain vote threshold (correct me if I'm wrong; that's my understanding of where the gamestate was). That meant the scum could take out any target they wanted and nothing could prevent it.

2.) Exactly ONE alliance happening today, which just happened to be Farside. The problem with that is that Farside had firmly agreed to ally with Titus and they were supposedly going to sort their differences. She never took back her agreement to ally. So she effectively lied to confirmed town about it. Furthermore, Titus had claimed that her BP was contingent upon being allied, so Farside lied to Conftown in such a way that said Conftown would be vulnerable due to having no alliance the next night.

You know these two points directly undermine each other, right? You can’t hammer on Farside for not Allying with Titus making her vulnerable if your initial point is that the scum kill would resolve regardless of any protection or BP status.

You can knock her for the hammer on Snarky that prevented Kraska from moving the stress but you can’t say the not allying was a contribution to Titus’s death. The fact that you try to sell point 2 as an additional reason to read farside as scummy is bad regardless of your alignment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Moi: No? Shiro has my claim for what it's worth.

Well Not Chara has what amounts to a guilty on you unless there is a specific circumstance in your claim that can explain it.

Given you don't want to claim I'll just assume it is a valid guilty.

@Everyone

- Not Chara has shared a piece of information that likely indicates RR is scum. If I die before he claims make sure to not let that fact be lost in the thread noise.

Only votes I will make today are RR or Creature.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Random

- In case you didn't see Not Chara's info in the PT with her I am dropping it into the Crystal Gem PT now. Please read it so you understand in-case I die.

[MagnaofIllusion]

He is not scum. Sher is not scum. They are not scum. So WHO is??

Um I've laid out a pretty involved case on Creature beyond all the action information from today. Did you read it? I think it is pretty compelling as far as pointing out the distancing Creature did with both SirCakez and Skybird.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I call bulshit on MoI. I post irrefutable logic that the Crystal Gems are lying about their win condition, and suddenly he has a guilty? That fits the pattern of the entire game since the moment we figured out there was a third party. Every time we question why they have lied to us repeatedly, MoI starts slinging OMGUS at us.

Mastin knows our role. Shiro knows our role. Titus was able to check our role claim and actually permanently stole an ability from us. Again: Shiro can confirm that Titus put us through the wringer AND used her ability to steal abilities to confirm our honesty. It actually pissed us off because we specifically wanted to connect with Titus again to gameplan how to maximize the ability she stole ... and then died before using.

The fact that MoI doesn't ever have shit to say about us unless I point out that the Crystal Gem faction has lied to us, at which point he always shows up and suggests we're scum ... kind of speaks for itself.

~Drixx

Um you haven't used irrefutable logic to prove that we are lying about our win-condition. You are trying to pass off your assumptions (which you believe, no-one else necessarily does) as proof when they are just that - assumptions. Which I and random both know for a fact your labored conclusion is incorrect. Chara even agrees that our Wincon is pretty clear and unambigous. And it strengthens my question about your alignment that you keep trying to somehow find a position that justifies all the work you have done doubt-casting the Gems.

The rest of this is literally flailing about. If you were Town who was confident that Mastin and Shiro both had your back then you wouldn't be this "emotional" about me scum reading you. Especially given I'm not even pushing for your lynch right now. Random has access to Not Chara's information also so even if I die he can fully relay information into the thread. Also scummy is your continual attempts to paint that my suspicion of you is only OMGUS when I've suspected your slot since early when I replaced in.

@Mastin or Shiro

- since you know RR's role and abilities why don't you claim them for him and we can put Not Chara's information to bed since

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm with MoI here, Creature is pretty obv scum

Are you voting Creature? Please do so if not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, I wasn't playing poor, what mainly got me lynched is that result I got, even if I didn't use that at all,

I don't think it would impact The Cluster much.

Oh really? I thought you didn't understand the Cluster event. Now you are saying you didn't think taking an action would impact it. Which means you understood but made a decision to disregard the danger. These a contradictory stances.

Lynch this please ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Past and present are different things if you haven't learned.

Oh I know that. You words specifically say "At the time I took my action I didn't think it would impact the Cluster Event". That's very different from this statement that supposedly explains why you took an action -

Story:

I saw something about it.
Didn't understand it.
Decided to ignore it for now.
Game went very fast paced.
I forgot about it.
Had actually no idea it was there.

So at that time of this replay you didn't understand and "forgot about it". Now you are saying "Oh, I just didn't think it would hurt".

Can we get a lynch on this lying scum already?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tell me, who's careless about farside22 and scum getting majority? You or me?

Is still voting Farside while this post again acknowledges Creature knows Farside can't be scum ...

Rope it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Who is in an alliance?

I'd like grapes to hook up with kraska if moi wants to ally with random

Grapes is allying with Almost I believe ...

Almost was keeping track of these commitments.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Premise 1: The town win condition is to eliminate all threats to Earth and requires at least one player aligned with Earth alive. (Sound premise, we know this for sure)
Premise 2: The scum win condition is to get to the point where they are equal or greater in numbers than the remaining players. (Sound premise, we know this for sure)
Premise 3: The Crystal Gem win condition is exactly as they claimed, despite there being two different claims: in short they win if all threats to earth are eliminated and at least one member aligned to the Crystal Gems and one member aligned to Earth are alive. They require both (Questionable premise, we don't know this for sure)

These are all valid.

Premise 4 (Conditional upon 3 being sound): If the threats to Earth eliminate all players aligned with earth, then town loses on the spot and the gems can, at best, play for an "everyone loses" scenario. (Sound if premise 3 is sound)

And here’s where your logic fails. Thanks to you blathering Varsoon has specifically quantified in the Gem PT that if all Earth aligned players are eliminated the Gems automatically lose and are removed from the game. So your “Everyone Loses” analysis is wrong. And we thus we don’t even need to go any further.

Also I'm curious Gems: Have you all seen one another's Role PMs or does only the leader see that? You see, we know that Yume (Steven) had serious concerns about one of the gems because of something in their role PM. We also know that said gem is now the leader. If you guys have not all actually seen one another's role cards, now would be a really smart time for you to admit such and then ask MOI to explain why Yume was concerned. We know, as did Titus and as does Shiro. We assume Mastin also knows.

Everyone has seen everyone else’s role PMs. No gating by the Leader or anything else like that.

If Mastin or Shiro want to specify what Yume was supposedly concerned about please feel free.

Yume never expressed any doubt based on my Role Pm in the Crystal Gems PT. Random can confirm this independently. She got irritated for KTS being his usual douche-self early on but nothing beyond that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The paranoia was due to an aspect of your role that shouldn't be discussed publicly.

Also...are you really trying to blame a mechanical fact which you should have had cleared up by the moderator before D1 even started on us asking questions about your win con, since it doesn't make sense as claimed?

-Cerb

Oh, so I'm blaming a "mechanical fact"? Nope. Sorry about your attempt to suggest I am.

The wincon is pretty crystal clear. Not Chara agrees. Most people who have commented on it agree.

You are basically the only one who somehow is trying to find some angle. Oh, and maybe Creature who will be flipping scum shortly I hope.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1.) The fact that we realized there was a 3rd faction before anyone else (besides the gems, obviously) had a clue, and the fact that we realized the claimed wincon doesn't make sense isn't our fault, nor is it "blathering". I'm sorry that your win condition is what it is. In fact, the win condition you just admitted to is precisely the one I predicted in our hydra PT (you can check after the game for timestamp) and the one I said should NEVER be revealed and the one I said made your lie acceptable. YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD ME THAT THE WIN CONDITION WAS OBVIOUSLY THE ONE I FIGURED OUT AND I WOULD HAVE DROPPED IT...

So let me get this straight - you've done this whole fucking song and dance about the Wincon and now you are saying "OH MY GOD, YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER REVEALED THAT" as if I (and Random who was the one who actually told you, derp) should HAVE A FUCKING CLUE WHAT IS GOING ON IN YOUR HYDRA PT?

Do you think I'm some magical wizard who can see into your PT and see what you surmise and say "Hey, what you privately speculated is exactly what our wincon is"?

I mean .... I'm almost speechless seeing this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's too bad you are taking Random so we can't ally with him and funnel info to you. Given what you shared (which you should not have), I feel obligated to infodump to you guys but the only way I can do so is to ally with one of you. Let us know if that's possible.

If you supposedly know my Role PM details you should know why aligning with me or random isn't in the cards for today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The tl;dr of what I'm saying:
I'm quite dead serious, what RR is saying is how I pitch things as scum: with empty bravado. I use fluff words. I use big terms. I use buzzwords. I say things. I fearmonger. I write a narrative. I say they are doing this, this, and that. They back these claims up with objectively-bad plays that have been made.

But they don't actually give the heart and drive of the matter. They don't give sustenance. It's not something which appeals to me, because there's nothing in there but words as far as I'm concerned. A sort-of Trump-like rally: something meant to incite a reaction in a crowd who demands action for their grievances, but which has no solid footing. (Yes, I went there. Dealwithit.)

Exactly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from V/LA brought on 24 hours early thanks to Tiger attack …

--

We aren't lynching farside, fuzzy or creature.

Um we aren’t lynching Farside. Creature is absolutely on the table and should be the lynch today. Unless you have reasons that go beyond “I think this flavor is Town” which you should know by now is not valid at all. Since you are solid Town read for me I’ll ask you to share any reasons you might have since Creature looks like pretty obv-scum from my perspective.

--

I could vote creature tbh. I had q scumread there since day 2

Well I’m probably doing your ISO today or tomorrow so prep me – have you ever pushed this claimed scum-read in thread?

--

I might vote TWIE I am waiting for TWIE to answer my questions about their vig ability.

The historical fiction seems to point town

.... however things about the vig ability makes me double think my read.

So Fuzzy … in a game where the Mod specifically has said scum have Town looking events I’d love to see why the bolded is even a thought process …

I am not happy about my vote on Far..... I am warming up to Far but right now I am still concern about her vote ability, While not likely scum and likely third party she can still tip the balance to a scum win which would be okay with her bc she can win with either scum or town if I remember right,

Isn’t happy with own vote. Doesn’t unvote. Probably scum.

--

Not sure anymore, we could simply assume farside22 won't support scum and not lynch her, that'd make things easier.

Nice cheeky scum bravado on display right here …

Shadow_step/Shiro/TheFuzzylogic99/TheWayItEnds

Is it a good table?

Nah, it lacks the most obvious scum still in the game – Creature.

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

Shiro ISO Review –

Reading this ISO is kind of painful to be frank. Lots of fluff to wade through.

The first 40 or so posts have a single scum read – Almost50. And that scum read is basically predicated on a post looking “fake” and subsequently scum-reading responses from Almost to Shiro’s scum read. On one hand I can see Town motivation in the push. On the other there has been zero mentions of Sir Cakez and Skybird and so far the only mentions of Creature (to prove out his scum-read) has been defending Creature from Almost’s scum read.

First mention of Cakez is 2273. Feel a little better about Shiro simply because putting stipulations on sheeping Titus onto scum doesn’t benefit scum at all. Follow through with the vote at 2295 gives the slightest Town read. Sir Cakez wagon was the leading wagon but only by a distance of 2 votes. So Shiro voting it to a three vote lead helps establish momentum.

Reads list at 2426 is not great as Shiro is responding to Skybird and calling them Town for flavor reasons in their next post.

Not thrilled with reactions to votes like 3335.

Passive Creature defense at 3991 with “Ronaldo is probably Town”.

Calls Skybird Town in 3996 based solely on incorrect flavor reasons.

My even is extreme circumstances can be used at slice of life only. It will automatically raise stress to tragic destiny due to my paranoia of what is out there.

@Shiro

– why did you not use your Event yesterday?

Given that Kraska has already shown an ability to manipulate stress I’m leaning away from both being Town together.

4239 and the response to Skybird doesn’t have the feel of Partner interactions, to be fair.

Readslist at 4248 does show Creature as scum which supports Shiro’s response to me about suspecting him from Day 2 on. It also calls Skybird Town.

Suggests Creature is a good gunsmith check at 5876. Again doesn’t look like Partner interactions.

Points out Skybird making an odd read progression at 6764. But shortly after continues to say Skybird is mechanically cleared ( 7089 as example).

--

Conclusion – The ISO on it’s merit is a great big Meh. Could be Town who foolishly chose to believe flavor as a clearing mechanism. Or could be scum who using that as an excuse.

Not a ton of voting history but did ride out the Sir Cakez wagon.

I would not be shocked if this flips scum. Also would not be shocked if it flips Town. In either case I would much rather flip others before this at this stage.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Shadow Step ISO –

(Twin Wings / Foxbird / ShadowStep)

Don’t like the early Skybird as Town read but since it appeas to be PT based as opposed to just flavor that might just be a bad read from Fox.

@Thread

– what period did Foxbird and Skybird align in?

Not a single mention of Cakez in the ISO from Day 1.

3287 doesn’t feel like a post a Skybird partner would make (activity vouching from Sky) given Sky’s flip completely kills any Town points the slot would get for said vouching.

Shadow gets some Town points from me for 5508 – that is some good analysis of why McMenno isn’t likely scum. Need to see where his reads on (Farside / Creature / Fire) go since they are included in that the review of the flash wagon on McMenno.

Creature is still is scum read but there is literally no interest in lynching him. Which is why asked him to ally with me to sort him.
I presented my case in Creature day 2 and nobody bought it, since then I haven't seen anything scummy from him. So what is gonna change it today? Nothing. So im not just gonna sit here and shout Lynch creature that is not an effective way to get anyone lynched.

Why would you not continue to push for a lynch on someone you thought was scum regardless of how well it was received in prior days if you are Town?

I thought this clears me because I'm obviously not responsible for the scum events like Message recieved?

This line of thought makes me want Shadow dead as it hinges on the concept of all scum events being driven by Role PMs. Crystal Gems have Crystal Gem events that any leader can trigger. I’m wager lots of money Mafia have similar Factional events.

@Creature can you answer this ?

Why were you not questioning Creature’s result when he brought it up in your Alliance chat? You had the same information I used to draw the conclusion that Creature should not have a result if he was Town.

I'll sheep MOI for now.

VOTE: Creature

Why would you qualify a vote on a player you ostensibly have been scum reading as a sheep vote?

[MagnaofIllusion]

TWIE and Shiro are already the scum team.

If there's one more scum, I don't know who it is.

Scum who is still voting Farside ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Episode 1

So chosen Pre-Day 1 and the duration being Episode 1 Exposition and Climax, correct?

What are people's thoughts on scum choosing to align with each other for Episode 1?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think the teeth to the case on creature is that he claimed to action despite being allied with snarky.

Question is why does he claim an action he couldn't actually do as scum?

The first part is inaccurate - please read 9788 for more analysis of Creature as scum.

The answer to your question is pretty clear - he made a mistake. You can't say scum never screw up.

Why do you think Creature has contradicted himself on multiple topics today if he was actually being honest about his actions and reasons for taking them?

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's correct. I'm not sure what I think of it. On the one hand; they already knew eachother's alliance effects. On the other hand, they needed to know what effect others have, and they also "might" have wanted to not be directly linked together.

My issue is that it is clearly sub-optimal for scum to specifically choose to ally with each other (except 100% for the WIFOM) given the rules specifically state the Mafia have Daychat. My expectation is that scum would want to ally with anyone else for information gathering since they can already talk with each other.

I mean … I’m not going to predicate reads solely based on who allied Day 1 but it is another element towards “Not Partners” for Shiro vis-a-vie Skybird.

--

Short answer is that my vote is a policy lynch which I am not happy about since I am almost always against policy lynches. I dislike that I am feel the need to policy lynch Far. Unless a good scum option comes up I dont see why the town should not lynch Far.

I want to ally with Mastin. Iknow she is town and I trust her

1. Why would you choose to policy lynch this far into the game unless you are scum wanting to play into the “Oh god Farside can turn on us” card?
2. Why is mastin being Town and trustworthy important at all in the Ally process given you don’t get to talk with him?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Far could hurt both town or scum. A policy lynch is not a indictments of town or scum action and is a nuetral action. If you think I am scum than vote for me

huh.... why wouldnt I be able to talk to Mastin. if thats the case however I will have to choose someone else. As my decison making is not good I need good feedback on what I should do.

Far being able to hurt either side is a generic platitude - even Town players can help scum (inadvertently) via their play. You still can't justify why you would actively want to lynch a slot you don't think is Mafia over slots you do think can be.

Speaking of which - who is scum?

To the best of my knowledge Mastin has said several times that he doesn't get a PT with his Alliance members as Centipeedle can't talk. If I'm wrong then feel free to disregard.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can anyone point me to a list of codifed Alliance claims if one has been made? Thanks!

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Kraska

If you want to provide even the smallest hint of a case to go with this then be my guest.

Naked voting is not helping ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Kraska ISO read through –

No flipped scum in reads at 501.

Interaction with Cakez at 668 is Null. Cakez throws Kraska a softball question and kraska answers with logic that I don’t see as obviously scummy.

Cakez vote at 3123 is also Null. Nothing of substance in their ISO about Cakez prior and the “Am I hammering, Don’t care” is meaningless since Cakez is scum. As is the “I’m frustrated” post at 3154.

Not thrilled with 3276 as it is a bit hypocritical – knocking the Foxbird slot for, among other things, disregarding the Cakez wagon makes little sense given Kraska more or less did that themselves. Do like them calling out Foxbird for having lurker reads as scum (Snarky and Xk, both now known as not Mafia).

Null reads Skybird at 4655.

Frankly I like the Lycanfire head much more than the kraska head. I’ve seen multiple posts that clearly are from Lycan that lay out a clear thought process on multiple players (unfortunately none on scum but some of the posts are Town read posts so …) that I can see as clearly coming from Town. The kraska head input on the other hand …

Says that they are “also down for Skybird” as a wagon in response to NotChara at 7499.

Has spent a significant portion of the ISO tunneling Shadow with little effect.

Tries to downplay my Skybird scum read at 8035.

The whiff on using the ability to raise Stress and possibly prevent Titus’s death makes me want to lynch this slot for 9119, specifically the smilie, on principal.

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I’m not seeing “damning” lack of progression on reads as grapes has suggested. If anything the most damning thing is a complete lack of reads related to Cakez and Skybird. Personally the flashes of Town in the ISO from Lycan got buried under the avalanche of junk posting from kraska.

I’m not voting here over Creature or TWIE.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Like if you think creature looks bad from progression with reads/interaction on flipped scum then I'd argue kraska is 10x worse.

Your argument doesn't resonate with me then ...

Kraska's ISO can easily be Town focused on a pet read (Shadow) at the expense of focusing on others. Creature's ISO is much more likely to come from buddies IMO given the active distancing.

And presenting Creature as game-solving is a huge stretch ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why do I even bother arguing..

What's his scum strategy going into this? Bus cakes and then turn around based on some arbitrary reads or w/e?

BTW creature's a good scumhunter I think what's more likely that happens is he nailed him on having a shifty read progression on him (makes sense from a town pov because I and a lot of other people track others reads on myself as a means of reading people) but then we town heard on cakes a bit and creatures paranoia as town thinking that there's too much hype surrounding cakes (especially on day 1) and seeing cakes town up a smidge (and yea, not gonna act like cakes didn't make a decent post or two) makes him turn around; and go right to pushing other things.

Half your case on creature doesn't make sense because you think his reads were him just quoting a cakes post.

Yea, the kraska hydra has made some pretty walls here and there. That doesn't make them town.

Generally because I think you are Town I asked for your input. I'm willing to listen to it. Doesn't mean I am required to find it persuasive.

Outside view - you've been focused on Kraska scum for a long time (looking at Kraska's ISO shows Day 1 scum calls from you) and you have invested enough game time and effort to it that you can't move away from it (the Sunk Cost fallacy). Maybe I'm wrong. We will have to see.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And it's damning as all hell the timing which skybird actually starts to exist for them.

Like, there was a lot of discussion about her flavor/role and stuff.

They comment on that AT ALL.

Just... develop and out of the blue scumread once skybird starts to scum up.

And yeah - not getting sucked into pointless (and clearly incorrect) discussion about Skybird's claimed role does not make them scum.

Actually - please point to the point where Skybird starts to "scum up" in the game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can give you a roundabout time? Like wasn't it early middle-ish Day 2? She posted that completely out of reality readslist.

So your theory is that scum Kraska starts to get a scum read on Skybird after Skybird starts to act like scum. And Town couldn't get that read themselves? Frankly I'm not seeing how you are distinguishing for alignment other than with the pre-conception that Kraska is scum.

People didn't take my "Skybird is scummy" thoughts seriously on Day 3 when I replaced in either. It took Xk actually shooting Skybird to get most of the thread out of it's collective "Skybird is Connie she's Town" head-butt insert.

[MagnaofIllusion]

OR if they knew that one specific pair would give one (or both) of them extra advantages. Like, if one has a clause in their PM that states "Your alliance members cannot be investigated" or "As long as stress in @XX or higher your alliance members' actions cannot fail" or "When you ally with someone you gain a 1-shot use of their abilities to use later on" .. etc. If they know they will benefit from it they will do it.

Mulled this over and looked at flips for Sir Cakez, Skybird and DGB. Given SirCakez had specific synergies to share this makes sense and might indicate some of the remaining scum also do.

--

Nothing I've said the last few pages has gotten through to you at all?

Or are you just so far gone into confirmation bias land on creature like magna that you're also a brick wall?

Creature is a mislynch.

Let’s be frank – you’ve said nothing specific enough over the last few pages that should warrant you expecting people to go “Aha, grapes is a genious, sheep away!”. Just telling people what you feel is not nearly enough to be persuasive at this stage of the game with 400 pages of material to draw from.

As an example –

Body of work.

I (and I’m expecting Almost too based on his posting but don’t want to talk for him) have already reviewed Creature’s body of work and found it scummy. So this is just …. weak. No other way to say it.

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Did you mean Shadow here? Because Shadow's slot was the one who allied D1 with Skybird.

Well given I have no clear idea who allied with who and when before I replaced in … maybe?

I'm going to be blunt about what this all means:
Off of my calculations, there are NO scenarios where all of TWIE, kraskaesque, and Shiro are town.
Lynching through them, ideally in that order, may or may not get you all of the scum, but it will get at least one if not two. (With a chance of all three.)

I'm pretty sure my math holds. Simple deduction and analysis with basic conclusions.

Um … I know you have a healthy ego and all but I’m not putting my faith in some invisible “calculation and deduction” as to why I’m going to chain lynch players.

The best bit of your last page was highlighting that at least one of RR / Shiro / Kraska is likely scum. But that isn’t enough to run through your list on faith. Sorry. Hunting for scum in thread is as important as the number crunching you seem to be leaning heavily on.

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I think that TWIE is Pearl or is a fake flavor claim that is to make us think he is.

I think if you seriously consider this to be helpful speculation then you need to take a step back. Zero percent chance that TWIE is Pearl or has Pearl as his fake-claim.

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Farside:nobody else has claimed vig, but on N3 we had two deaths. It's possible both deats were caused by scum, but it's also likely that there's a vig who used a shot.

At this stage a Town Vig should be claiming either the Firebringer or Not Chara shot if that was them.

--

Do I look like scum who has given up?

Yes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Am I ok to vote creature atm?

Yes. If farside wanted to hammer Creature she could already.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But the analysis I did was, by and large, reliant on a TWIE townflip, not scumflip, and if you're town like you say you are, TWIE, then my analysis holds true because it was seven all town votes on SnarkySnowman, even if one of them was controlled by scum.)

You do get that this makes no sense, correct? I mean you are talking from a standpoint of wagon analysis then if you see a TWIE Town flip then by rote it means that one of the votes on the wagon was put there by scum (DGB) and the fact that it is a “all Town wagon” isn’t a valid analysis point in the least. Scum chose to obfuscate their involvement in the wagon but still were the driving force in placing one of the votes there.

So any further logic that use “It was an all Town wagon” as a reason to make any analysis is useless.

[MagnaofIllusion]

For the record TWIE's flip is not going to be delayed by the Crystal Gems. Any delay is part of the natural game processes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

For the record TWIE's flip is not going to be delayed by the Crystal Gems. Any delay is part of the natural game processes.

Just flip as soon as possible for him.

That's what I'm saying. We don't have control over how long the process takes if we don't choose to delay the flip. I know we have like a 24 - 48 hour period to make the choice. I've already posted in the Gem PT to Varsoon saying we specifically choose not to bubble TWIE.

[MagnaofIllusion]

A fine thought in theory, but what both TWIE--and now you--are failing to take into consideration is that if TWIE is town, DGB could not have been in communication with the scumteam.
Ergo, if TWIE is town, DGB did not know SnarkySnowman was also town.
Ergo, if TWIE is town, DGB had no way of knowing she was voting town.

Whether DGB “knew” Snarky was Town or not is kind of irrelevant to the discussion from my perspective. The vote there was a vote placed there by a scum player. Regardless of whether DGB knew for certain he was placing a vote on Town or scum it was a vote placed by scum regardless.

If this means that we are not able to reconcile to each other’s points of view on your wagon analysis that’s what will have to be the case. Personally I think you are putting too much emphasis on wagon composition at specific snapshots of in time and not analyzing how the wagons moved.

[MagnaofIllusion]

First things first - scum attempted to kill me last Night but were thrwarted. All I can say is "Suck it scumbags"

Does anyone have an alliance today? Please state affirmatively if so.

And we are not lynching ANYONE till a few things get straightened out.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Mastin

- any thoughts on why scum chose to kill me over you?

Also, MoI, if you're so confident I am scum, let's play a game:

Say something like "If Creature flips town, I'll..."

This is pure Appeal to Fear "What will you do if you are wrong MoI"?

If Creature flips Town I'll never again under-estimate his ability to play as scummy as possible even when Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I disagree with the grapes "Creature has no scum motive" but that can be hashed out today.

Before lynching I've got info I want sorted out ...

I had a one-shot Power as leader that I used last Night to get what is effectively a clear on someone. Varsoon has confirmed that whoever has control of the event in question and isn't scum. So I can clear someone today. I have no clue what the Event does but I know that the name is unique and is held by a Town player.

Everyone (aside from Random since I know the event isn't his and know all his events from his Role PM anyway and Mastin who is Yume cleared) needs to claim any Events Name (and only names ... no need to out what remaining tricks Town may have to bamboozle scum) they still have available so I can clear someone. I

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also check with Varsoon if your alliance didn't happen. He forgot to send Random and my Alliance link to us until I asked him about it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Everyone (aside from Random since I know the event isn't his and know all his events from his Role PM anyway and Mastin who is Yume cleared)

needs to claim any Events Name (and only names ... no need to out what remaining tricks Town may have to bamboozle scum)

they still have available so I can clear someone.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Shiro

-

Trigger this claimed event in your next post.

My even is extreme circumstances can be used at slice of life only. It will automatically raise stress to tragic destiny due to my paranoia of what is out there.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Quick Beachapalooza Analysis – TWIE flipping scum means that DGB was able to coordinate with the main team body for Beachapalooza. So RR actually now stands a more likely chance of being scum.

Also before we lynch today we need to make sure we get Alliance mechanics sorted out. Now I am have much more freedom to Ally than before so I’m open to suggestions of good people to Ally with.

Claimed Events –

Creature – “Rising Tides, Crashing Skies”
RR – None left
Kraska – ???
Shadow - ???
Almost50 - ???
Grapes - ???
Shiro - ???
Farside22 - ???
Fuzzylogic - ???

--

Oh nice not again.

Nice “Oh, bad things” scum tell drop there Creature.

You seriously didn't note any difference in my play in The Walking Dead Season 1 Finale?

Yeah I notice a clear difference. You aren’t in a hydra.

--

Well fuck.

I was honestly expecting TWIE to flip town there.

--

maybe they thought Far was the traitor. Either that or they thought far was a dangerous third party, I doubt Far is scum though.

Why would scum want to lynch their traitor again?

[MagnaofIllusion]

All I'm sayin' is that it looked like shiro claimed something to do with his role at a glance and lying about that is scummier than claiming an action that could be blatantly called out as bullshit by anyone paying attention at all.

Unless you think it's a thing he would have HAD to claim eventually.

I think you are over-simplifying the nature of the many, many issues with Creature vis-a-vie his claimed action.

1. He contradicted himself on why he actually had a result when Town shouldn't have been using Night abilities. First it was he didn't understand the Cluster event and then he said he didn't think using it would be a big deal which explicitly says he understood the nature of the Cluster threat.
2. His claimed result supposedly might have alignment implications (given he asked his Neighbors whether the role in question was Town or scum) but never broached the subject in the main thread until I forced him to. A main thread with multiple confirmed Town players to help him make that assessment.
3. His results do not make sense as neither 1 of 4 or 3 of 4 correct items match to Random.
4. His handling of "Oh I could have been redirected" as an excuse for his results not making sense when he later claims his results specifically identify Random as his target.
5. His handling of "Oh, I got results but shouldn't have" given Snarky's Town flip and his later "Oh, I forgot I can't be Roleblocked".

I still think he's scum who took an action and botched his claim on it (either forgetting or not knowing he shouldn't have a result when Allied with Snarky).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Personally the fact that TWIE didn't bother to vote Creature to save his own skin says that chances are they are aligned ...

Unless you think Creature is Town and TWIE is so terrible a player he'd basically game-throw by not voting his own viable counter-wagon.

Instead he spent his time trying desperately to undermine my credibility with pointless insults.

Add in that it Creature stalled his vote on Farside (despite calling him not scum his vote languished there for a significant amount of time) and only voted TWIE with great hesitation.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Shiro

-

Trigger this claimed event in your next post.

My even is extreme circumstances can be used at slice of life only. It will automatically raise stress to tragic destiny due to my paranoia of what is out there.

I've stated more than once that I was joking , jesus

Sue me. I forgot your retraction.

So what events can you still trigger Shiro? Names only please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

A bleh one, I can create a second alliance with a person I already allied with and they cannot affect me negativly and viceversa. It needs + stress if I recall.

Um I only asked for the Name and you gave me everything but the Name ...