Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]
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ɀefiend Goon
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ɀefiend
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ɀefiend Goon
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OK, read the whole game. I have a lot of conflicting thoughts about many players, but at this point I am pretty confident that@mastinaand@Heartlessare town, so I would appreciate some help sorting through these thoughts and maybe pointing out things I missed.
I like@Nero Cain's points about Titus and I feel a lot of players are sleeping on her this game. However I do not like Nero's thoughts on mastina because his scumlean(?) read on her seems poorly or under-developed. I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.
However, I also like@Titus' issues with Infinity. I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning. His read on mastina also feels unnatural, propelled in part by a combination of paranoia and the general tendency of others (re: Nero & Heartless (at times)) to pressure her. On the other hand, I dislike the fact that Titus' scope and breadth of other players in the game is quite narrow. I would feel more comfortable with the slot if she attempted to engage others with more vigor.
I initially liked@Infinity's push to get the game rolling, so-to-speak, and that has always been a personal town-tell I use. I cannot definitively point to anything Infinity has pushed or pressured organically, but at the same time, he does ask beneficial questions and probe efficiently when things are "happening" in the thread. I feel uneasy about this slot, but not necessarily worried. Infinity, do you feel that Titus' game-long push on you is a non-issue?
I believe Heartless already asked this question, but@DrunkenPiper: if you tracked Pine to nacho N1, wouldn't you also have tracked him to BBmolla? If you didn't, isn't that confirmation that BBmolla is lying about being vanillaized? I don't know how Firebringer would resolve that but maybe you should ask him.
@SirCakez: You asked me to specifically look at the Pine interactions. I noticed, while reading D1, that you continually regarded the Pine-wagon as a poor lynch. You and I both know that I have been burned by reading too heavily into something like that before (re: College Mafia, where you soft-defended scum on D1). The key difference this game, however, is that the scum in question has flipped earlier than 3-way LYLO, yet nobody else seems to be calling attention to these associations (besides Infinity's VCA). What exactly were you hoping I gleaned from analyzing the Pine interactions?
The LUV/Peregrine slot is actually pretty null for me and hopefully Peregrine will contribute more.
I am comfortable sheeping mastina on BBmolla -- his content is unsatisfactory, mastina pointed out a key logical fallacy (re: SirCakez--Aj the Epic D1 voting patterns) that seemed to get buried, and the gambit actually seems quite plausible.
I would also lynch Aj toDay for a collection of pinging behavior I recall from my reread. I would have to dig deeper and review to shore up that scumread, but for now I just wanted to get my initial thoughts out there.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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I can't for the life of me think of any role that rhymes with aids. I'm gonna take your earlier post that BBmolla isn't confirmed at face value.In post 2093, Drunken Piper wrote:(As DP slept off his last tear, conversation exploded. but he saw this that caught his eye, he will do the other catch up later)
you can do this math, if that was the case,In post 2084, ɀefiend wrote:
I believe Heartless already asked this question, but@DrunkenPiper: if you tracked Pine to nacho N1, wouldn't you also have tracked him to BBmolla? If you didn't, isn't that confirmation that BBmolla is lying about being vanillaized? I don't know how Firebringer would resolve that but maybe you should ask him.
then I wouldnt be talking about BBmolla in this time and place.
hmm, think hard new guy, think hard, try not to use any aids.
and you will probably figure out that I am a...............-
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ɀefiend Goon
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How does Titus looking like scum cause your vote to stay on AJ? I feel like I'm missing an important connection you've made or I'm misunderstanding this post.In post 2094, SirCakez wrote:
I have been very busy in the afternoons recently so I haven't been able to reread yet. Titus looks like scum on hiding so ya not changing my vote. .-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Why?
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ɀefiend Goon
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Sell me on this, please.In post 2111, PeregrineV wrote:
You're a townread because of Pine's treatment of you, not because your reads are right.In post 2108, Infinity 324 wrote:Scum is in {AJ, aero, pere, TWIE, molla}
Mastin convinced me that molla is possible but not that's it's likely.
Have to ISO cakez but I doubt he's in there.
I wasn't seeing it while reading.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.In post 2118, Nero Cain wrote:
I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that HeartlessIn post 2084, ɀefiend wrote:I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.DIDstate who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.
So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.
As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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@Nero
Interesting. You know, from an outsider perspective, the whole You (Nero)-Titus-Infinity triangle is perplexing. You keep hinting at lynching or flipping Infinity or possibly even that he's scum. You do know that that's Titus's top push?
Or is Infinity more like a "wait til more flips to reassess" type of lynch?-
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ɀefiend Goon
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In post 2161, Infinity 324 wrote:
You have stated that I'm scum three times now, with absolutely zero reasoning.In post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.
Consider this post me formally calling out your shade-tossing.
This is so scum-
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ɀefiend Goon
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ɀefiend Goon
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Yeah, the role sounds bad.In post 2159, Nero Cain wrote:
So Pine has a role where he joins the crew when he wasn't invited. Like why would he not instantly become a leading hotbed of activity?In post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.
You're saying you think Pine and mastina would have planned the whole thing out from the time she was "scum-reading" him?
It's a hard pill for me to swallow.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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-_- stop doing this, I'm on mobile right now and eventually there will come a time where I can't reply right away.In post 2169, Nero Cain wrote:
replyIn post 2159, Nero Cain wrote:
So Pine has a role where he joins the crew when he wasn't invited. Like why would he not instantly become a leading hotbed of activity?In post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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What the fuck are you talking about?In post 2175, Infinity 324 wrote:
It's that his paranoia isn't genuine. Of course not all of his reads are just going to be determined by what other people think, and it doesn't make much sense for town with no particular reasons to scumread someone to get paranoid just because other people think that person is scum. Especially since it's only a couple people who think mastin is scum. I think he's setting up for the possible opportunity to lynch a strong town player because he can't resist it.In post 2170, Aj The Epic wrote:Walk me through this. Reading anything with people not completely caught up is a pain in the ass and I want to say Aeroslot is scum (from earlier, helps explain why no counterwagons early) but unless you're referring to generic waffling mastin!read then I'm blind to the issue.
I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.
At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Vague statements like yours do not amount to reasoning. They are nothing more than shade.In post 2168, Infinity 324 wrote:In post 2164, ɀefiend wrote:with absolutely zero reasoning.In post 2086, Infinity 324 wrote:That post was a bunch of empty analysis and busy questions
If you want me to elaborate say so (I'll probably do so tomorrow anyway). But don't say stuff that's not trueIn post 2087, Infinity 324 wrote:The question directed at cakez also feels quite fake
And now you have completely manufactured a story to label me suspicious when none of the elements of that story existed in my catch-up post.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Attempting to solve the game and sort my reads is not a setup of anything.In post 2190, Infinity 324 wrote:
I never said your mastin read flipped. I said you're setting up to flip it.In post 2187, ɀefiend wrote:
What the fuck are you talking about?In post 2175, Infinity 324 wrote:
It's that his paranoia isn't genuine. Of course not all of his reads are just going to be determined by what other people think, and it doesn't make much sense for town with no particular reasons to scumread someone to get paranoid just because other people think that person is scum. Especially since it's only a couple people who think mastin is scum. I think he's setting up for the possible opportunity to lynch a strong town player because he can't resist it.In post 2170, Aj The Epic wrote:Walk me through this. Reading anything with people not completely caught up is a pain in the ass and I want to say Aeroslot is scum (from earlier, helps explain why no counterwagons early) but unless you're referring to generic waffling mastin!read then I'm blind to the issue.
I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.
At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.
This reaction is beyond fake.
VOTE: infinity
Literally everything you've said has been sh@allow shading or blatant invention about my gameplay.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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ɀefiend Goon
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I started reading an 80 page game at 9 pm, and between several breaks I didn't finish til 4 am. Maybe I should have waited to post with a clearer mindset, but I really just wanted to get my true, initial feelings down the moment after finishing reading. It wasn't an meant to be anything beyond superficial feelings and reads, but it was meant to give everyone an idea of where my thoughts lay upon an initial catch-up.In post 2237, Heartless wrote:
anyway back to thisIn post 2225, Heartless wrote:bc you use a ton of words to say not very much and the reads themselves are so cookie cutter and meh
talk about this more when not on a phone
in the opening post i feel like he's just sort of going through the motions and dryly pointing out things that MIGHT be scummy but there's really no direction to any of the thoughts and most all the reads just kind of end up in this weird limbo. i'm not really seeing any effort to go beyond surface level or any attempt to say what the most LIKELY situation is. it's the appearance of "gamesolving" without really solving anything.
The weirdo limbo thing is because I genuinely feel like there's a conundrum between players with regards to their reads (for example, Titus, Nero, and Infinity) and I was hoping to pry further into these nuances. I started chipping away at Nero, and we made some progress, but Infinity's primary reaction was to discredit my efforts and fling absolute bullshit. Titus probably doesn't care one way or another now that she has a supporter for Infinity lynch.
TL:Dr: I wanted to establish a baseline personal "feel" of the game so that I could work off of something as I get in stride. I didn't want to just come out with reads and progression that makes no sense with zero background context. My catch-up at least provides some context and I'm was more comfortable moving forward with one like that.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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I made a catch-up post because I believe it beneficial for myself and others who want to productively engage with me in syncing with the game.
I did the exact same thing when I replaced at a similar point in the game in RC's League of Legends Mafia: gave my opinion on all the players, said who my top townreads were, and said who I was willing to lynch. I also talked about major talking points I would like to consider while moving forwards.
If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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On mobile so I can't make a really good case wall with quotes and such, but here's the rundown.In post 2259, Heartless wrote:
i mean.... you can help me by talking more about reads and why you have themIn post 2256, ɀefiend wrote:I made a catch-up post because I believe it beneficial for myself and others who want to productively engage with me in syncing with the game.
I did the exact same thing when I replaced at a similar point in the game in RC's League of Legends Mafia: gave my opinion on all the players, said who my top townreads were, and said who I was willing to lynch. I also talked about major talking points I would like to consider while moving forwards.
If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.
maybe start w/ infinity?
He shaded my catch-up, I ignored it because I was busy talking to others. Then while I was talking to Nero, he kept shading me, so I told him to stop it whilst bringing forward no reasoning. His reply was that his reasoning was that my analysis was bad and I was asking pointless questions. I told him that this wasn't saying much of anything and just casting more shade. (The difference between you and him is that you actually articulated what about my catch-up bothered you and hopefully trying to understand it. His motive was to simply discredit).Thenin reply to Nero, he concocts a moonshine gasoline theory that my conversation with Nero was pre-emptively setting myself up to push for a mastina lynch later on. He acts like this is his gold standard of reasoning, even though it was derived after originally calling me scummy. Furthermore, the premise is completely illogical. What the hell are my motivations with progressing a fake read on mastina from town to scummy? If I wanted to portray mastina as scummy why wouldn't I just bring up a bunch of fake issues with her in my catch-up post? I obviously read the thread and know that some people scumread mastina, so why wouldn't I just latch on to that to begin with? He's asserting that my attempts to be transparent with my mastina read are somehow bogus... *because I'm suddenly asking others for their input on mastina*... it's a scum tactic to discredit and disparage legitimate conversations and I believe that is exactly what he's doing.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Can't dig up to quote the exact posts b/c mobile, butIn post 2260, Heartless wrote:
ok, like this. here's a concrete assertion about infinity and what he's done.In post 2084, ɀefiend wrote:I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning.
when did this happen and where was it scummy?
Towards the end of D1, with around 3 real-life days left, he is getting antsy about wagons and expresses discontent with trying to move the current wagon. Several people tell him his worries are unfounded. In reference to "admitting" something, I also recall him saying something along the lines of "I'd rather lynch town than no one." When push came to shove, though, he had no qualms about actually moving the wagons around. I may have to review the timings of those D1 wagons to get a better picture but overall, I don't think his voting nature was genuine and I would definitely describe it as opportunistic.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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I don't even know who you're referring to at this point.In post 2257, Titus wrote:Zefiend, you cannot help scum.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Feel like I'm talking to a brick wall but here goes.In post 2264, Heartless wrote:
errrrrkIn post 2261, ɀefiend wrote:Then in reply to Nero, he concocts a moonshine gasoline theory that my conversation with Nero was pre-emptively setting myself up to push for a mastina lynch later on.
ok so here's your reply to nero in question:
i'm also wondering why you caved so easily when nero challenged you on the mastin townread. that was supposedly one of two confident townreads you said you had in your first post and that gets washed out by... what exactly? you didn't consider the possibility of mastin bussing, nero had to bring it up first?In post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.
As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.
i would think you'd stand up for the read more than you did.
staying out of nero's way. bend the read without necessarily breaking.In post 2261, ɀefiend wrote:What the hell are my motivations with progressing a fake read on mastina from town to scummy?
i like moonshine gasoline as much as the next guy, but i don't think it's crazy.
Of course I considered that mastina could have bussed. I felt strongly on my gut that her tone was not in line with someone who was bussing. I laid all of this out in the forefront. Then Peregrine and Nero both made statements that suggest their experience with mastina or her alts or hydras lead them to believe mastina's range this game could very well include bussing. I am glad that these two players ACTUALLY ENGAGED my catch-up post instead of just flat out attacking and sliding it, because I give deference to their opinion about mastina and I will use that going forward (when Nero and/or mastina comes back).
If you think I am the type of player to hold tightly to my town reads you are mistaken. I am primarily a scum hunter.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Help SieCakez how?? I feel like you are narrating something happening in an entirely different game or I'm eternally distracted.In post 2265, Titus wrote:You attempting to help SirCakez.
Why did you think I wouldn't care about reading your posts?
Why do you think the unhealthy spam argument hasn't been made about infinity besudes by me?
Because when you tunnel you don't care why someone has your support as long as they do. Pretty sure you've said something like that before but I'm not in any rush to dig through all our games together to find it.
I am joining your cause to make that argument too. It's not just unhealthy, it's tactically scummy.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Your "elaboration" was inventing a reason from my exchange with Nero -- which happened AFTER you originally called me out. You didn't have shit to begin with and you just reached for the first thing you could think of.In post 2268, Infinity 324 wrote:zefiend, just because I didn't explain in a ton of detail right when you wanted me to what specifically bothered me about your catchup because I was tired doesn't make me scum. I even said you can ask me to elaborate if you wanted, but instead you just use it as a reason to call me scum.
Pure misrepresentation. I like how you add in "possibly to set up to vote them" - this is blatant construction of a narrative that you have no idea about. Nero and Peregrine's disagreements simply caused me to reflect and reevaluate.I don't see how "scum townread player x but waffled on the read when other people disagreed to possibly set up to vote them" is as crazy as you make it sound. Scum!you probably couldn't even find any justifiable reasons of your own to scumread mastin, and sheeping or using obviously bad reasons would have issues of its own. I find it hard to believe that, as town, you would start to reconsider a confident townread after one person told you you should. There are a bunch of people saying mastin is town, why trust nero and pere over them?
You are focusing on my dialogue with Nero and Peregrine for the wrong reasons. They were particularly influential to me because they ENGAGED me on the exact points I was thinking mastina couldn't have bussed. Why would I NOT consider their opinion when they are saying the exact opposite?
Circular reasoning is circular reasoning is circular reason-...Your reaction to all this is so overblown, and the fact that you think it's so obviously scummy that I didn't elaborate as much and you wanted me to and think it's so ridiculous that scum could set up to change their read is scummy in and of itself.-
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Didn't even notice that post.In post 2272, Titus wrote:
SirCakez posted his spoiler before this heavily redacted post.In post 2256, ɀefiend wrote:If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.
You cannot help SirCakez see scum because he is scum.
It is worrisome that he brushed off my very forward question about Pine to him.
He also said I'm scummy which is apparently very easy to do right now; also a red flag.
I am here Titus. I am listening.-
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If it looks like an Infinity, walks like a SirCakez, and talks like a mastina...
In post 2161, Infinity 324 wrote:
This is so scumIn post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.In post 2255, SirCakez wrote:
Yeah looking at his recent posts agreed.In post 2161, Infinity 324 wrote:
This is so scumIn post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.In post 2166, ɀefiend wrote:...
These two posts are terribad.In post 2203, ɀefiend wrote:...In post 2293, mastina wrote:
Okay. zefiend's previous posting was null enough: it wasn't town, but it wasn't something I felt was a strong indicator of being scum.In post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.
This?
This, though? Pure scumposting.In post 2295, mastina wrote:
Did I say zefiend's last post was pure scumposting?In post 2163, ɀefiend wrote:@Nero
Interesting. You know, from an outsider perspective, the whole You (Nero)-Titus-Infinity triangle is perplexing. You keep hinting at lynching or flipping Infinity or possibly even that he's scum. You do know that that's Titus's top push?
Or is Infinity more like a "wait til more flips to reassess" type of lynch?
I take it back.
zefiend's last post is fucking SAINTLY compared to this.
THIS is essence le scum.In post 2306, mastina wrote:
And this is more scum posting in case there was any doubt to be had.In post 2187, ɀefiend wrote:What the fuck are you talking about?
I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.
At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.
The feeling when {Infinity, SirCakez, mastina} are unironically the scumteam. Wow.In post 2322, SirCakez wrote:...
Same with this scumbutt. He was just looking for an excuse to start discrediting, like he's doing with infinity.
Three players, all saying I'm scum, with no evident reasoning. Infinity defending mastina, SirCakez defending Infinity, and mastina posturing on SirCakez. Let's not forget that SirCakez slid a very pointed question I had for him about Pine. Or that now SirCakez is trying to line up lynches:
Let's not forget Infinity claiming mastina was a poor lynch D1 because mastina's a strong player, but also willing to move freely between Klingon and Thinker. Or how about the fact that Infinity wanted Pine for a majority of D1, felt he was the best, scummiest lynch, but abandoned that with no natural progression.In post 2355, SirCakez wrote:
yes, last time I was this confident about her she was scum too (Street Fighter)In post 2342, Aj The Epic wrote:Are you really that confident about Titus?
Like zefiend has been... slightly more high key about his alignment with his flailing.
Will you help lynch Titus tomorrow?In post 2343, Heartless wrote:
no don't give me thatIn post 2341, SirCakez wrote:Titus will get away though <.<
zefiend is scum. you see it. i see it.
let's get this done.
Here are the posts for consideration,@Heartless, that comprise the case I was trying to explain to you earlier. Read them and tell me there is no inconsistency with Infinity's mannerisms towards EoD D1.
Spoiler:
By the way, you are no longer engaging me in good faith. I have tried to explain everything to you. Despite you saying that you understand my points, you are conf-biasing based on my entry post. Your DEFAULT is to assume everything I'm saying afterward is bullshit even though I'm being transparent as possible with my thought process. There is no productive development here. You are claiming to meta read me when you there is plenty of conflict in my meta. 1) I showed you a gamethat you were inwhere I did the exact same sort of catch-up post as town, 2) you assume me to be the type of player who holds my town-reads in high esteem when I am quite the opposite, 3) and you claim that because I didn't ask Nero & Pere for games, I shouldn't take their opinion into account -- I have NEVER asked ANYONE in ANY game I've ever been in to "supply" games for meta tells (the only time I've asked for games is in 3-way-LYLO as a clear, to have more information). I judge things based on the context of the current game. Titus can vouch for me on that as we've completed two recent games where I held strongfast to that mentality with regard to meta.
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In post 2288, mastina wrote:
Yes, he is, and I'd be happy to bus him if you'd vote with me there! Push come to shove, if nothing else.In post 2106, PeregrineV wrote:SirCake into the scumpile also.
This. So much this.In post 2339, PeregrineV wrote:
Let's see it.In post 2288, mastina wrote:
Yes, he is, and I'd be happy to bus him if you'd vote with me there! Push come to shove, if nothing else.In post 2106, PeregrineV wrote:SirCake into the scumpile also.
Vote: SirCakez
VOTE: SireCakez-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Read the quotes in the context of my earlier summation case on Infinity. There is blatant pandering to wagons (KoC and Thinker, both town btw), avoidance to wagon (mastina), and dissonance between words and actions on the Pine wagon. All of this directly contrasts with a "no time to act" mantra he was spewing.In post 2367, Heartless wrote:
yeah.... what i see is a bunch of quotes and i STILL have no idea what the conclusion i'm supposed to draw from them is. what's supposed to be out-of-sorts here?In post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:Read them and tell me there is no inconsistency with Infinity's mannerisms towards EoD D1.
so throwing a bunch of quotes at me constitutes the good faith effort on your part and now it's back on me?In post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:By the way, you are no longer engaging me in good faith. I have tried to explain everything to you. Despite you saying that you understand my points, you are conf-biasing based on my entry post. Your DEFAULT is to assume everything I'm saying afterward is bullshit even though I'm being transparent as possible with my thought process. There is no productive development here.
nice try, but that's not "engagement"
....and the fact that you had that game on-hand tells me you're very ACUTELY aware of the meta so... no, no townie-points for you.In post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:1) I showed you a game that you were in where I did the exact same sort of catch-up post as town
given that the probability of townreads are FAR more likely to be accurate than scumreads just through sheer numbers, this is a very illogical habit, but whatever...In post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:2) you assume me to be the type of player who holds my town-reads in high esteem when I am quite the opposite,
now you're misstating my issue. the issue isn't "taking other people's opinions into account." it's "there's this strange absence of YOUR own judgment and/or curiosity in this WHOLE process." that should be present even when you're taking other people's opinions into account. ESPECIALLY when the "other people" are null reads. unless you're in the habit of taking null reads' opinions at face value and there's no fucking wayIn post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:and you claim that because I didn't ask Nero & Pere for games, I shouldn't take their opinion into account
This was your initial problem with my post:
I brought up the RC game to show that my intentions were exactly the same, I wasn't TRYING to be anything but superficial. I was trying to lay out my first-read-thru thoughts on paper and that's what I did here.In post 2237, Heartless wrote:
anyway back to thisIn post 2225, Heartless wrote:bc you use a ton of words to say not very much and the reads themselves are so cookie cutter and meh
talk about this more when not on a phone
in the opening post i feel like he's just sort of going through the motions and dryly pointing out things that MIGHT be scummy but there's really no direction to any of the thoughts and most all the reads just kind of end up in this weird limbo. i'm not really seeing any effort to go beyond surface level or any attempt to say what the most LIKELY situation is. it's the appearance of "gamesolving" without really solving anything.
How was I not taking my own judgment into account? As a first time player with mastina I picked up on a pure tonal read on her which led me to believe she was town. As the only person who commented on her tone this game (besides perhaps herself) how can you assert that my independent thoughts weren't going into this process?
Peregrine was null as of the catch-up post because of the LUV slot. But he immediately towned it up and made several points about mastina. That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina and so I promised to reassess. For some reason you're not seeing this progression as a good thing and instead just conf-biasing through all my explanations. Look at the depth of my play since then and get with the program.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Like, you're not even reading the substance of my posts. You're just brigading all of my other content. How do I know this? You admitted you follow my explanations and yet you don't even acknowledge my efforts at hunting other players (even though you asked for me to help you understand my reads)In post 2369, Heartless wrote:cakez, please vote zefiend
This tunneling is utter shit and I'm moving around until I see otherwise.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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ɀefiend Goon
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This is the bulk of the conversation with Pere and Nero about mastinIn post 2374, Heartless wrote:
what were these points?In post 2370, ɀefiend wrote:That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina
Spoiler:-
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ɀefiend Goon
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What are you not understanding about "laying all my initial thoughts on the table and getting a baseline to work from?" The post wasn't meant to explore in-depth evaluations on people. That is what I'm doing now.In post 2397, Infinity 324 wrote:
This post just doesn't show a genuine attempt to evaluate people. A lot of the points he brought up are either things other people said or are very vague/waffly statements. Town would probably try to ask probing questions if they were unsure, or try to come to a conclusion on the game state. He likes nero's points on titus and likes titus's points on me. Ok, am I or is she, or are we both scum? He doesn't even try to answer these questions. In general he doesn't give a big picture view on the game, he doesn't even notice that he may have too many scumreads, he just say things about different players. The questions he asks seemed to be busy questions, the one to cakez doesn't seem to be alignment-indicative and the one to piper was already asked.In post 2084, ɀefiend wrote:...
Not only that, he somehow suddenly dropped his scumreads on molla and AJ and his suspicions on titus just to scumread the people who are pushing him. Too much of an inconsistency to come from town imo. Also he went from not giving any big-picture opinions about the scumteam to claiming to know the entire 3-person scumteam. Yeah no. Rope.
How is the question to SirCakez not important? I feel like a lot of people are overlooking it. He explicitly asked me to look over people's interactions with Pine. When I did, I noticed that he (SirCakez) was defending Pine. Here's the posts I dug up (everything you see as "..." is extraneous content; I don't wanna make this post too long):
Scum bantz.In post 551, SirCakez wrote:
Still think the slot is town, just irritated that she's going to be annoying me by holding her cryptic scumreads over my head while being completely closed to engagementIn post 540, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:
What are your first impressions on Mastina?In post 535, SirCakez wrote:The amount of text in this game just doubled in a page
I'm excited for another round of arguing with mastina
/Gin
NAI/light defense,In post 758, SirCakez wrote:
This is pretty cruddy, for obvious reasonsIn post 749, Klingoncelt wrote:I'm amazed that everyone hasn't auto-sheeped Mastina.
VOTE: Pine-A-Tonics
Thinker - you asked for a case on infinity. But what doyou thinkabout him?
NAI/light defense,In post 1073, SirCakez wrote:
Only one scumread??In post 1057, Heartless wrote:[Nero Cain, BBMolla, nacho]
[Drunken Piper, Lil uzi vert, Desperado, AJ, mastin]
[SirCakez, Klingoncelt, Infinity 324]
null line ---> [Titus, TWIE, Aeronaut]
[Pine-A-Tonics]
Light defense,In post 1105, SirCakez wrote:(...)
I thought you had more for some reason (besides Thinker). And I disagree with your one scumread :/In post 1090, Heartless wrote:
yepIn post 1073, SirCakez wrote:
Only one scumread??In post 1057, Heartless wrote:[Nero Cain, BBMolla, nacho]
[Drunken Piper, Lil uzi vert, Desperado, AJ, mastin]
[SirCakez, Klingoncelt, Infinity 324]
null line ---> [Titus, TWIE, Aeronaut]
[Pine-A-Tonics]
OH NOES SO BAD SO SCUMMZMZMZMZMZMLKS;JF;LKSAJDFLJDSA;FJ;LSAF
/FROOOOTH
settle down, buckaroo. i'm well aware i probably have a scum or two above the null line (or more if i'm really shitting the bed). tth is going to run quality control this weekend.
Medium defense, no reasoning,In post 1178, SirCakez wrote:(...)
Yeah that was a pretty bull 180 by Nacho. Feels like he's following the crowd, he's hardly engaged with the game.In post 1123, Infinity 324 wrote: I'm a bit worried that heartless is scum given nacho (I think?) talking about how good their scum game was and that they haven't really been obvtown. Then nacho voted them for rogue leader so what?? Also want nacho to explain why he now townreads the thinker.
This Pine wagon sucks, I'd prefer any of Klingon, Thinker and AJStrong defense, no reasoning.
You're lagging the game with your refusal to drudge out of your attack on my initial post. The way you frame my posts as actions leading to "set-up" other things without evaluating the substance is scummy to me.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Actually I want to know more about this. Does it have to do with power balance as Titus said or...? You said you only targeted SirCakez so what does that have to do with Molla's claim?In post 2407, Aj The Epic wrote:
A.) Don't trust Molla's claim in light of my knowledge (...)In post 2404, Titus wrote:@AJ, Thank you, but why the fuck did you claim?-
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ɀefiend Goon
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If you're going to make pre-flip associations like this, explain them.In post 2507, Infinity 324 wrote:I think one of {molla, cakez, mastin} is scum. Zefiend is another scum. The third is either TWIE or maybe titus or pere. Or there's only 2 scum.
That's why I'm only voting zefiend today, lol. Too many possibilities.
If you think I'm scum who are my partners and why.
If you can't explain why they're scum without relying on me flipping scum, then your entire post right here is bullshit.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Just because you didn't read the conversation between Nero and I, doesn't mean it didn't happen.In post 2526, Infinity 324 wrote:
OhIn post 2520, TheWayItEnds wrote:i jokingly questioned mastins read on me.
i seriously questioned titus's
because mastins made sense and titus's did not.
Ok but the way he did it wasn't genuine. The way he said it made it seem like just the fact that you engaged him made him reconsider the read, which doesn't make sense.In post 2521, Nero Cain wrote:One of the points I brought up against Mastina is...basically Mastina was arguing that the scum had no clue who was going to be in the crew. I countered her point that Heartless made it very fucking clear who they wanted in the crew. Yes, I get it it that town can miss things but I think its suspicious that she did. Maybe he thought it was a good point and changed his read...idk man.
More scum-framing here. You are basing this ALL on a catch-up post. What have I been doing since then if not explaining my progression? Oh yeah, defending against all the shit you're slinging here.The case on him is not waffling. It's lack of original opinions, lack of big-picture gamesolving and wild inconsistencies like dropping his scumreads on molla, AJ, and titus.
Molla -- not gonna sheep someone I think is scum now (mastina).
AJ --- this guy obviously claimed AFTER my post.
Titus --- never "scumread" her. I said things I liked and disliked about her slot. I can say she is town now.
You're trying to detract from my other content with a bullshit distraction case based on a single catch-up post. I think you're scum for it.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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This needs to be clarified ASAP. Just PM Firebringer.In post 2556, Drunken Piper wrote:
I probably dont need to read anymore,In post 2554, Drunken Piper wrote:In post 2399, Aj The Epic wrote: Also I'm full JK and locked Cakez two nights in a row. This was said in the claim.
VOTE AJ
seeing I didnt get a "no result" on cakez, you whore.
I will continue reading, to see what this is to see.
but unless i was redirected, the next scum has been caught, who wants to thank me?
The reason why I say this is (NOTE THIS IS FROM ANOTHER GAME):
Firebringer was actually the Jailkeeper in that game. Myself, Titus, SirCakez, and Aristophanes were also in that game for what it's worth. Aeronaut's interpretation of Jailkeeper in that game goes against what some of y'all are saying is normal/standard on MS.In post 1585, Aeronaut wrote:Let's just be clear here. If there is/was a tracker in the game, they would receive NO RESULT if the player tracked is role blocked. They would also receive NO RESULT if the player is jail kept. If the player does not visit anyone, they would receive PLAYER DID NOT VISIT ANYBODY. Finally, if the tracker was blocked, then the tracker would receive NO RESULT
Titus was a tracker who targeted aJK'd playerN1 and got "no result," then told that was an error and he visited "no one," then told that the original reply was correct.
On N2 she targeted aRB'd playerand also got "no result."
So it's plausible that Firebringer is using that interpretation. All Dancing Piper has to do is ask. Also, even if SirCakez actually "visited no one," that doesn't necessarily make Aj scum.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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ɀefiend Goon
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I'm here. Gonna be busy with class and reports all day so I'll get to this tonight.
Dunno if I'm at L-1 or what's going on since I haven't skimmed yet... I'm VT. Character special ability is a 1-shot boost to target's character special ability. I also identify the base character special ability of my target.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Haven't used the ability yet. FYI, it doesn't check abilities derived from Roles. It checks special abilities which presumably everyone (including VTs) has.In post 2892, PeregrineV wrote:
Any info to report at this time, esp. that may confirm/deny existing claims?In post 2891, ɀefiend wrote:I'm here. Gonna be busy with class and reports all day so I'll get to this tonight.
Dunno if I'm at L-1 or what's going on since I haven't skimmed yet... I'm VT. Character special ability is a 1-shot boost to target's character special ability. I also identify the base character special ability of my target.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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I don't get how this is a counterpoint.In post 2626, mastina wrote:
False. Timeline has everything to do with it.In post 2332, Nero Cain wrote:Rhetoric. The fact that Infinity was up for RL at one point and wanted others has shit all to do with anything.
Your whole point boils down to:
"Heartless was the Rogue Leader. Heartless made their picks known. None were scum, thus, scum knew they weren't being picked. Thus, they knew that Pine would use his role. And therefore, mastina knew Pine was going down and could bus them."
THAT'S YOUR FUCKING ARGUMENT.
BUT IT IGNORES.
HOW HEARTLESS WASN'T EVEN CLOSE TO BEING THE ROGUE LEADER AT THE TIME.
At the time, Infinity was the Rogue Leader vote.
And Infinity had me as a pick.
The chronology doesn't fit. So no. Not rhetoric. That'd be YOU, bringing up an irrelevant point.
If a scum got into the crew they would be able to tell Pine and perhaps he wouldn't use his ability. Whether he decides to use the ability or not isn't a requirement for you to bus him.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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What's your stance on all this now that I'm about to be lynched? Considering SirCakez and BBMolla have just voteparked on me.In post 2628, mastina wrote:I'm predicting SirCakez will refuse (or maybe he'll join briefly, but leave for some bullshit reason), because they are in fact scumbuddies.
The problem is, I can help you lynch either of them, yet you won't give me anything in return. You won't help me lynch BBMolla when they flip scum, and that's the only thing which can make me switch. If you're going to be pursuing town after you lynch scum, it's not worth it. It's only if you pursue scum after lynching scum that it's worth a vote.
I KNOW that if I lynch BBMolla, you will continue to go after zefiend, maybe considering SirCakez.
I know that if I lynch zefiend, you'll be quick to pursue some moronic mislynch.
Am I wrong?
Tell me that, when zefiend flips scum, you'd consider going after BBMolla. Tell that to me with a straight face, absolute 100% sincerity. Do that, and you'll get my vote there. Otherwise, I'm sorry. No matter how much zefiend may be scum, I simply cannot in good faith vote there.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Why aren't you addressing the fact that I was the first person to bring up any semblance of a case against SirCakez and how does that possibly fit into your bunk theory that we are scum together?In post 2632, mastina wrote:Basically, to give an idea of my thoughts right now, it's that there's a lynch order, just like before.
BBMolla > SirCakez > zefiend.
zefiend is caught scum. Easily caught scum. Everyone sane knows he's scum. We can nab him at any time, and on future days if he's alive he'll not be able to escape. He IS eating rope this game, no matter what.
SirCakez is scum, and a fair majority of us know he is. And yet, he is not without key players defending him. That could cause long-term interference. He's not someone I think will make it to endgame as scum. He's someone I THINK will be getting lynched no matter what. But I don't actually KNOW it. It's possible he will escape. So, not the best candidate, but not the worst.
BBMolla is scum, but everyone is resisting the idea he is. Most of the key players this game insist he is town. This is an incredible danger, ESPECIALLY given his claimed role--if he actually has it and isn't vanillaized, he has the potential to absolutely DEVASTATE the town's PR usage. He is also likely the one in charge of the scum's NK after Pine died, so I see him as the greatest threat, and thus the best lynch.
I will compromise on SirCakez if I can't get BBMolla.
I will compromise on zefiend if I can't get either SirCakez or BBMolla.
But I still have that as my preferred lynch order, because I still hold true to Molla being the largest risk factor here.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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This is totally not buddying while distancing from a mislynch so as to absolve yourself toMorrow... /sIn post 2635, mastina wrote:
On zefiend, yes.In post 2410, Heartless wrote:do you trust me+tth's judgment?
But that's our common ground.
If we lynch our common ground today, we get to do a whole song and dance of disagreeing, of diverging, tomorrow, and that won't be fun, because both of us will want credit for zefiend, both saying, "You trusted me yesterday, why not today?!?", because it was our fucking common ground. I've held a suspicion on the zefiend slot since late D1. I don't need to tell you he's scum, just like you don't need to tell me he's scum. But again. My concern here isn't today, in lynching scum.
It's future days, in lynching scum.
I want to lynch scum in the future.
I don't think lynching zefiend today will allow us to do that.
It'll be a scum lynch, yes! That will be a good thing, yes. But it's not the scum lynch I think we need.
I don't know how to better convey this. Basically. zefiend as scum tells us nothing we don't already know. We know he's scum. He can be lynched at any time. We lose nothing from lynching him, and lynching him is better than nothing and better than a mislynch. But we also gain nothing. That's my problem. I see you talking about zefiend being scum. I see Infinity talking about zefiend being scum.
But who else are you scumreading?
Who else do you think is scum?
Because without a clear direction there, lynching zefiend doesn't offer much, now, does it?
I suppose you could say, my posting today is mostly focused on getting it so that we have a clear picture of what to do after today. A clear picture of how to lynch scum consistently and constantly. Rather than scatter to the wind chaotically.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Look, I get it. You're scum and so from a survival standpoint, it makes sense to be on my wagon. Your distinct lack of talking about any of your reads in-depth (besides this messy convo with Heartless about AJ) is evidence that you're just gliding by and squatting on your vote because there's no danger in doing so right now.In post 2928, SirCakez wrote:ftr if a Titus wagon ever got going I would un-votepark asap-
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I know... you do realize I have been agreement with Nero for some time now, especially as it relates to the whole "timeline" argument?In post 2930, Heartless wrote:
pine having an expiration date on him b/c of the ability is a part of nero's explanation for why mastin could've bussed and it's been hammered on for the last umpteen pages nowIn post 2925, ɀefiend wrote:If a scum got into the crew they would be able to tell Pine and perhaps he wouldn't use his ability. Whether he decides to use the ability or not isn't a requirement for you to bus him.
Unless of course you are still pretending I didn't adequately express that to you. You know, I find it bananas how you and others can latch onto my SirCakez "case" so easily by parsing the quotes I provided, but you can't parse the quotes from Nero and Pere I provided that clearly show what I found appealing about their points vs. mastina.
It's almost like you're... confirming a bias of some sort.-
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I just don't understand how someone can make posts like these without being scum.In post 2645, Infinity 324 wrote:
First of all, no you're not evaluating people in-depth right now and you never did. You just called 3 people scum that were voting you and dropped 2 other scumreads entirely. Not to mention you didn't even consider possible scumteamsIn post 2615, ɀefiend wrote:What are you not understanding about "laying all my initial thoughts on the table and getting a baseline to work from?" The post wasn't meant to explore in-depth evaluations on people. That is what I'm doing now.
How is the question to SirCakez not important? I feel like a lot of people are overlooking it. He explicitly asked me to look over people's interactions with Pine. When I did, I noticed that he (SirCakez) was defending Pine. Here's the posts I dug up (everything you see as "..." is extraneous content; I don't wanna make this post too long):
Second of all, the question to cakez seems bad because, well, if you think the interactions with pine make him seem scummy, vote him. That doesn't mean pine interactions weren't a good thing to tell you to look for. With a flipped scum, interactions with that scum are one of the most important things. I don't see particular motivation for scum!cakez to ask that if his interactions with pine looked particularly bad; in fact, he'd have motivation not to ask it. But anyway telling you to look for pine interactions to help you figure things out makes sense regardless of his alignment and regardless of what those interactions are.
I brought up points about Cakez and voted for him, and Infinity is completely ignoring this and continuing to say I'm doing nothing. The second paragraph is just loaded with WIFOM: "maybe he had motivation, maybe he didn't... it doesn't matter what his alignment was for asking that question" Clearly I am not the only person who thinks these things are important. That's WHY I brought up the question in the first place.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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You didn't explain how your other scumreads are my partners. At all. And yet you berate me for "not considering scumteams." The hypocrisy is real.In post 2646, Infinity 324 wrote:
Ok, all you had to do is ask...In post 2618, ɀefiend wrote:
If you're going to make pre-flip associations like this, explain them.In post 2507, Infinity 324 wrote:I think one of {molla, cakez, mastin} is scum. Zefiend is another scum. The third is either TWIE or maybe titus or pere. Or there's only 2 scum.
That's why I'm only voting zefiend today, lol. Too many possibilities.
If you think I'm scum who are my partners and why.
If you can't explain why they're scum without relying on me flipping scum, then your entire post right here is bullshit.
This is mainly a PoE list. Nero is town because he's playing very strongly to his town meta and I don't think he can fake this tone as scum. Heartless are town because they're putting in so much effort to solve the game and I haven't seen anything worrying from them. Also I agree with a lot of their reads. Piper is town because of the guilty on pine and because I've liked his thoughts throughout the game. AJ is town for his claim.
The leaves the players in the list there. You know why I think you're scum. I think either mastin is right on one of her scumreads or is scum herself, because of BoP. (The other one of molla/cakez should also be in the other group). Then I have TWIE who I have only a slight lean scum on, and my weak townreads pere and titus. LUV was null for me but I liked pere's catchup so far, and Titus's play doesn't make much sense to me as scum even though it seems like bad play.
Ok, that's where I'm at with this game.-
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Now this post gives me pause.In post 2651, Infinity 324 wrote:
Ok, nero cain.In post 2628, mastina wrote:I'm predicting SirCakez will refuse (or maybe he'll join briefly, but leave for some bullshit reason), because they are in fact scumbuddies.
The problem is, I can help you lynch either of them, yet you won't give me anything in return. You won't help me lynch BBMolla when they flip scum, and that's the only thing which can make me switch. If you're going to be pursuing town after you lynch scum, it's not worth it. It's only if you pursue scum after lynching scum that it's worth a vote.
I KNOW that if I lynch BBMolla, you will continue to go after zefiend, maybe considering SirCakez.
I know that if I lynch zefiend, you'll be quick to pursue some moronic mislynch.
Am I wrong?
Tell me that, when zefiend flips scum, you'd consider going after BBMolla. Tell that to me with a straight face, absolute 100% sincerity. Do that, and you'll get my vote there. Otherwise, I'm sorry. No matter how much zefiend may be scum, I simply cannot in good faith vote there.
But yes, I'm considering the possibility of scum!molla now in fact. Not sure about heartless, but if you convince me molla is scum I will vote there. Good enough?
Maybe Cakez/Infinity/BBMolla?-
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ɀefiend Goon
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OK, I see that you actually do need me to spell everything out for you.In post 2671, Heartless wrote:
yeah... no, you have now formally surrendered the right to bitch about "engagement" with me because the point of me asking was for you to state the reasoning IN YOUR OWN WORDS not to just glibly quote posts, which i can already see.In post 2612, ɀefiend wrote:
This is the bulk of the conversation with Pere and Nero about mastinIn post 2374, Heartless wrote:
what were these points?In post 2370, ɀefiend wrote:That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina
Spoiler:
I was not in the game D1, so I was not in the "flow" of things. However based on my read of the game, I thought mastina was likely town based on her tone with regards to pushing Pine. That's what I wrote down in my catch-up post. After reading over 70 pages or whatever, I just wanted to get my initial thoughts down. I didn't want to heavily explore all the nuances of the possibilities that mastina bussed. Maybe I shouldn't have made a summation post at 4 AM because I wasn't completely clear-headed, and now I'm widely scumread based on that post. But fuck it, that's how I do catch-ups as a replacement. Read the game and post initial thoughts to work from.
Nero provided some context from D1 that got me thinking about how a conceived plan between Pine and mastina would actually go down. I found that Nero adequately explained why it would be likely for mastina to consider bussing if she knew the trajectory of the game (in this case, the crew composition). Nero and Pere both touched on another point about mastina not laying out concrete reasons from THIS game for scumreading Pine. Pere went in-depth how mastina seemed to only be interacting with one head and how that interaction seemed shallow. Again, I was not even in the game while Pine was, so I wasn't considering the hydra-head aspect that Pere pointed out.
All of that is what I mean by "reconsidering my one-dimensional read." It was originally based on tone, but based on further input I reconsidered a variety of factors. I don't think it's fair for you or anyone to say that my reads (not just on mastina) haven't evolved as a result of me trying to scumhunt.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Wtf? Then why are you voting me? I've been saying Titus is town and Cakez is scum for some time now.In post 2702, Nero Cain wrote:but the only way I could see Titus town is if Cakez is scum. I mean I did like zefiends stuff about Cakez defending Pine but Infinity was also kinda defending Pine. He was voting for him for awhile kinda goes back and forth.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Smackdown is over. You don't have to wait for Raw to finish to talk about Smackdown, if this is what you're referring to.In post 2712, Nero Cain wrote:I do have another reason why I think Titus is scum and why I think efiend is town but I'm not ready to share with the class.
And I would self-meta but Titus is already doing it for me. She's absolutely correct in why she's town-reading me based on that game.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Oh god the irony.In post 2775, Infinity 324 wrote:That's really the only issue I have with your play: that you're taking one read, not considering it could be wrong, and basing everything on that. I really want to help you get in this game, but your tunnel seems to be getting in the way.
Except Titus is town and you're not.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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In post 2947, Nero Cain wrote:
its not.In post 2946, ɀefiend wrote:Smackdown is over. You don't have to wait for Raw to finish to talk about Smackdown, if this is what you're referring to.
Titus has already been talking about it extensively. Maybe you ignored/skimmed over her points about that. If you have something relevant to share then do so if there's a chance it will help me not be mislynched.Forum Index wrote:WWE Mafia - Smackdown! (Game Over- Off Television)
1 ... 787980by Vince McMahon » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:55 pm-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Why are you presenting me with an either-or fallacy? Holding me hostage until I vote Titus doesn't serve any fruitful purpose because I don't think she's scum, and I'm not going to self-vote.In post 2950, Nero Cain wrote:In post 2949, Nero Cain wrote:So...your 100% town and you rather die instead of Titus? If your answer to this is no then vote her and I'll unvote.
I'd rather lynch scum, which is why I'm voting SirCakez.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Wtf man...In post 2777, Nero Cain wrote:...What it does sound like, or atleast similar to, is how inSmackdownyou were whining about me whining about you...when I wasn't. Ditto the thing about me, Cakez and Infinity keeping you from talking to ppl or whatever....-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Does this look like lurking to you? I don't try to lurk as any alignment.In post 2953, Nero Cain wrote:If Ttitus were town she'd be doing shit me thinks. I also got pretty sick of your "lurking". I know you were V/La part of it but how do I know if you are using it to lurk or not?
Also unrelated, non-sarcastic game question, do you know what the Super Bowl is? I happen to live in Houston, the city that hosted it this year. I worked all weekend and Monday, and got caught up with all my school shit that I missed Monday on Tuesday. Here I am posting today. Regardless of my alignment I wouldn't be able to be active. I think this is literally the first time I've ever used the V/LA tag -- most of the time I just take the prod and move on.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Dude, I work as a bartender for a catering company part-time and also go to college 4 days a week. I worked Friday & Saturday, partied on Sunday, and skipped class to work on Monday. Yesterday I went to campus and caught up all the shit I missed Monday. Today has been the first day I even touched MS again since last Thursday. I read my PMs, left a message in all my games saying I'd catch-up tonight, and here I am now.In post 2956, Nero Cain wrote:What does the SB have to do with whether or not you had time to play?
Can't believe I have to defend against someone trying to suggest I strategically V/LA'd to lurk.-
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ɀefiend Goon
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Because there was no explanation behind any of them, just a strict desire to halt/fight the Pine wagon.In post 2867, Infinity 324 wrote:
People keep saying this, but I don't see how "cakez defended and townread pine" is a legit case.In post 2817, mastina wrote:zefiend's 2615-
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ɀefiend Goon
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If you want to analyze my wagon you have to look at the speed. You also have to consider that mastina has expressed intent to hammer me if she ever "needs" to.In post 2958, Nero Cain wrote:
I had felt like your wagon was just sitting there for days so I had felt like scum were comfortable with your lynch. I guess you could argue that the Cakez wagon is the counter wagon to you scum so idk...I sorta feel like, if Titus were town why is it so fucking hard to wagon her? I mean they got my big arrogant ass leading the way and they aren't sheeping me why? I doubt anyone agree's with this but yeah...In post 2951, ɀefiend wrote:Maybe you ignored/skimmed over her points about that. If you have something relevant to share then do so
As for Titus, fmpov if she were scum she would have already found a reason to vote me. However she seems to be largely independent from most of the game with respect to her scumreads and angle of scumhunting. There is some overlap in our views which is why I'm partial.
Talk to me about mastina? Where has that train of thought headed?
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