Micro 941 | Brass and Shrapnel | Game Over!

[Hoctac]

Hello!

[Hoctac]

How do I look?? Be honest.

[Hoctac]

I'm very confused. It seems we have a claim and a counterclaim already? I think that means one of them is lying and we should lynch one.

[Hoctac]

Okay!

VOTE: Holden

[Hoctac]

Hoctac vote Tuxedo

Okay!

VOTE: Tuxedo

[Hoctac]

Oh, we're on a new page! I'm suddenly in the spotlight for everyone to critique my post... I feel uneasy.

[Hoctac]

-

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[Hoctac]

DkKoba, you said you would use MS Paint for your setup spec but then used Excel/Spreadsheets instead? Is there a reason you lied there?

[Hoctac]

But at the end you couldn't, so you switched over to a more convenient app. I see, and this seems to all check out!

[Hoctac]

Which shape represents me?

[Hoctac]

Are you feeling pressured by all the votes on you, Holden? I could ask people to unvote if that's the case.

[Hoctac]

I see people are trying to move us out of RVS. This saddens me, as I was quite enjoying the slow pace of the game, and arguments scare me T_T

[Hoctac]

Holden, could I ask why you use "->" rather than ">" or bullet points which can be accessed using BBcode? I found your choice peculiar.

[Hoctac]

P-edit: You and I can RVS as long as you like, but if you change your avatar you're dead to me.

I'm keeping this one until anyone proposes another avatar to me in any of my games :p

[Hoctac]

Do I look pretty?

[Hoctac]

It's my foot.

[Hoctac]

It's my foot.

Your foot is in a hand shaped glove?

Stop making fun out of the shape of my foot D:

[Hoctac]

It's my foot.

Your foot is in a hand shaped glove?

Stop making fun out of the shape of my foot D:

I don't think your foot hand is hideous Hoctac. But I am going to have to eventually lynch you for identity theft.

What do you think about Dkkoba and Holden?

DkKoba seems cool and very capable of using spreadsheets! However, I did find it odd how they keep avoiding using colour in MS Paint, as if they want to make it harder to view their setup spec.

Holden seems quite skilled. He was able to deduce I was town simply from the emojis I posted alone! I would love to learn that kind of power some day.

[Hoctac]

Given your typing style, its not hard to deduce who you really are lol.

What do you mean? Are you referring to my MBTI personality type? I'm quite new to these kind of killing games, so I'm hoping to learn from and grow with everyone here!

[Hoctac]

Holden, could I ask why you use "->" rather than ">" or bullet points which can be accessed using BBcode? I found your choice peculiar.

First off, do I look like a programmer? bbcode is too much work and I can't be arsed to actually learn how to use it. I probably will never host my devious bastard games like "Mod's Are Vig's" where everyone kisses the Mods' asses trying not to get vig because I do not know how to format VCs.

Okay, I believe you! After briefly checking your meta, I can verify you haven't modded any games.

I could go on, but you are clearly ENFJ

You're actually pretty accurate; I'm ENFP-A. This shows you have a solvey mindset.

[Hoctac]

Is everyone okay with me moving my vote to ceejay?

[Hoctac]

Thanks!

VOTE: ceejay

[Hoctac]

I'm not sure, I'm still getting my bearings in this game. Some people seem very friendly but I'm not sure if being friendly makes someone town or mafia.

Also, I liked the person who made the first push against Night 3 Roses. For making the push itself; I think it was productive and useful of them!

[Hoctac]

Thanks!

VOTE: ceejay

What's your thought behind this vote?

@CJ (is that okay?) are you still scum reading Holden? Why/why not? What's your goal with this wagon hoping? Your votes (or unmoved votes) look opportunistic.

Also, Clidd has yet to make an appearance, is that normal for them?

And where has Enomis gone?

To answer your first question, I wanted to move it from you!

The second question isn't directed at me, so I won't answer it.

I'm not sure. I think he's usually more engaged by this point but I haven't checked his meta to answer this question.

I don't know!

[Hoctac]

To answer your first question, I wanted to move it from you!

Do you like to move your vote around? Does it help form reads? Or do you mean you're town reading me?

Yes, I think I do like moving my vote around.
You've been asking game progressing questions, so I don't believe you're in need of pressure. ceejay hasn't had an independent thought yet, so I believe he could do with some!

[Hoctac]

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

[Hoctac]

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

[Hoctac]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

[Hoctac]

@Hoctac: Is there a reason you ask questions about matters that aren't alignment-indicative in ways that seem to imply you think they are? I am thinking of 74, 119, and the recent 198 in particular. You have an awful lot of fluff as well. I genuinely can't tell if your play/post style is some sort of social experiment (particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed) or if this is actually how you play, and it's throwing my ability to read your slot.

I'm trying my best! I have a read on DkKoba now.

[Hoctac]

I am fatigued recently by the number of games I am currently playing, so I’ll probably be more passive here. No essay this time.

I think clidd is town. Have a feeling clidd won't be passive if this is a scum game. Just a feeling~

This seems a little confident a conclusion to draw from that alone! Are you basing this on the meta of 1 game, and have you considered the fact clidd is simply feeling fatigued, and thus wants to put in less effort regardless of alignment?

[Hoctac]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

Why? I am assuming this is serious.

Happy to explain! They pushed Holden for "too much WIFOM". Once their reasoning was questioned, they altered their original grounds to be that "they were reaction testing". Flailing is not good.

Additionally, they implied they disliked Holden's defensiveness, yet switched their vote to me too quickly, indicating they were unhappy with pursuing that push since it was drawing questions into their alignment and motives.

[Hoctac]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

My vote has nothing to do with your vote on me specifically. Sorry for the confusion.

[Hoctac]

To be clear, is Hoctac actually an alt of a regular player?

He is not an outed alt. His posting style and MBTI type (this isnt a joke; the person I think he is slipped his MBTI type) matches another player to the wire. Basically I'm 99% sure he is an alt of that person.

He isnt playing that much different from his regular playstyle so I dont get much purpose of the alt if he is who I think he is.

Look, if you're going to make it this obvious, Holden, I may as well come out and just say it.

Spoiler:

I'm a Wake alt.

[Hoctac]

Spoiler:

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

because i said "

it

has served its purpose now" referring to my current vote? if you're expecting a profound thought behind it, i'm gonna have to disappoint you.

~

Man, my mind short-circuited for a moment there because I completely forgot that Holmes and Moriarty are actual characters that have appeared in many different mediums and not just a hot dude and a foxy grandpa from everyone's favorite cell phone game.

from the what

@Night 3 Roses: I think the post volume difference does matter in that a higher post volume comes across as an active attempt to look good whereas the lower post volume does not. To be sure, not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I will admit I assumed you (or your slot, or whatever term is appropriate) didn't like ceejay or myself not because of any scumhunting justification, but simply because we're voting for you. Aside from Hoctac being unhappy with ceejay for not being original, no one else has seemed to have a problem with the nature of the pressure being applied to you, so I figured it was a safe assumption. I've seen so many players over the years do it, so.

you're assuming i'm trying to look good. i'm well aware of what "active lurking" is. i was posting because i felt like posting, and at the time what i felt like "actually contributing" either a thing that could've been ai was already dismissed as non-ai, or my question got ignored.

i can tell (or at least i like to believe i can...) the difference between good votes and bad votes on my slot, simply disliking/scumreading someone because they dare vote against me would be silly. i think your arguments are bad but they seem to be genuine. (un)fortunately ico is currently having some sorta holiday so i can't exactly bug him right now to ask what he thinks.

(particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed)

are you saying it wasn't addressed by hoctac or did you miss the second part of 165?

-D

I like the

"your reasons for suspecting me look bad, but I think you're town"

mentality. It's the kind of thing that I find myself applying in every game as town.

I feel that a scum mentality is more inclined to apply omgus in this situation on the pretext that the accuser is acting in bad faith.

I disagree with this, clidd. Anti-OMGUS is actually a slight scumtell, though context is king of course. However, I am pleased to hear that you refrain from exhibiting OMGUS as town.

[Hoctac]

hoctac, did you get anything from the unvote talk?

Yes! I suspected you unvoted before voting as a courtesy to the mod, and to make their life a little easier.

Discovering this is in fact not the reason came as a shock to me! Thank you for engaging me on this.

[Hoctac]

Hoctac, is DkKoba's aggressive/provocative playstyle influencing your read about him ? Or should I consider this indifferent to your argument on post 214 ?

Not at all. The emotion/aggression I am factoring as utterly NAI.

[Hoctac]

I will catchup on this tomorrow hopefully.

To address the timing of my push comments: That was just when I decided to have a reread of the thread and picked on the things I mentioned on DkKoba.

[Hoctac]

AaAAaaAaAaAAAaAa

Tommorow for sure!

[Hoctac]

It's timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Hoctac]

It's timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Hoctac]

I'm not sure, I'm still getting my bearings in this game. Some people seem very friendly but I'm not sure if being friendly makes someone town or mafia.

Also, I liked the person who made the first push against Night 3 Roses. For making the push itself; I think it was productive and useful of them!

Hoctac could be townie after all I guess.

How much mafia have you played @hoctac?

I've played some!

[Hoctac]

This is a mind-boggling statement to make in combination with not addressing the second half of the final paragraph I wrote in 215.

As I mentioned before, the timing of my vote was when I reread the game and tried to form better opinions, and noticed the progression by DkKoba that I highlighted there!

[Hoctac]

does this mean you scumlean us or are you just disagreeing with the "theory"?

Disagree with the theory.

[Hoctac]

I ditto Kilga's point on this. What specifically triggered you to vote at this point?

DkKoba unvoted at post 207.
But you posted 2 post with questions to other people before voting DkKoba at post 208

I've answered this but I'd also like to ask:
What is my scum motive for coming up with an OMGUS the very post after someone votes me? It's very little as it will be immediately noticed and suspected by everyone - as it has been here. The simple solution is that my vote infact has nothing to do with his vote specifically on

me

, and is not an OMGUS at all.

[Hoctac]

wait nvm i see the -D i need to STOP SKIMMING

Being honest, its Datisi in that hydra which makes my brain just stop reading his posts due to the consistency he has rolled PR in all games I've been in with him. My brain is just conditioned at this point to accept Datisi as town and not actually scum hunt them.

Trying to break that notion this game has been...difficult.

I townread this post.

[Hoctac]

yoink

[Hoctac]

No idea. Maybe someone in enomis/Hoctac. I'm having trouble townreading either.

Why did you stop townreading me?

[Hoctac]

Hi drunk Datisi

I think getting drunk is just the theme of this game. I say we all get drunk during the night phase so the vigs have fun outcomes.

Will be here in a serious manner later

Hmm, good idea. I think I have some shots lying around here...

[Hoctac]

hoctac how do you feel about tuxedo being obvious scum

tuzrso us that the. (@ hehlle [v mastina)

i thikn ?

[Hoctac]

Can you give an example of how you would vote given Hoctac does a certain thing? Something like "If Hoctac's response does A B C I would then vote X Y Z".

pretyt bad Q y ask tht befor i Anwser ?
ur dumb

[Hoctac]

srry i didnt mean thta i think ur smart

[Hoctac]

Okay, I've sobered up now.

I disagree with the reasons for Kilga's initial push on DkKoba but I think the timing of it - doing it while knowing Koba was drunk is actually town-indicative, because it's just more likely Koba would townspew and OMGUS Tux in that state.
Less sure about Koba. Hard to distinguish between my read on their playstyle with my read on their alignment, but I think their alignment will become clearer over time.

Ico, could I have permission to move my vote to- actually let me check.

[Hoctac]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

i townread DK, this feels like a very natural response to that omgus

You townread them based on this one post? They didn't address my points and just called it an OMGUS, that's NAI at best.

[Hoctac]

I'll vote for ceejay or Roses, but probably Roses.

Their ISO is a lot of questioning and busywork with very little reads/opinions of their own.

Could someone give me permission to vote for Roses please?

UNVOTE: DkKoba

[Hoctac]

Ico, the answer to most of your questions is playstyle choice. Why I townread Holden: I've liked and/or agreed with his thoughts and the way he interacted with DkKoba was good early game.

[Hoctac]

Where do you want to go?

[Hoctac]

You and ceejay are both nullscum. I don't have any scumreads per se either.

[Hoctac]

I'll reISO later maybe.

[Hoctac]

How do you read me now, DkKoba?

[Hoctac]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

i townread DK, this feels like a very natural response to that omgus

You townread them based on this one post? They didn't address my points and just called it an OMGUS, that's NAI at best.

Could you address this, Ico?

[Hoctac]

How do you read DkKoba, ceejay?

[Hoctac]

I've answered and addressed this many times now, Kilga. The only reason is that it was when I decided to reread the game and noticed. I didn't notice or care to comment on them when I was previously posting alongside his unvote. That's all there is to it.

How is this scum-motivated? Have you never seen town take a step back to reread things and come up with new/fresher points? And no, OMGUS is not a good scum-motivation whatsoever, as that only draws more attention. I can't see a single good point in your case if you just listen to me in good faith.

[Hoctac]

Just a note: Holden has very high scum equity if ceejay is mafia.

VOTE: ceejay

[Hoctac]

Oh, scratch that; for some reason I thought ceejay was on more votes.

[Hoctac]

I'll give you some shiny new donkey armour to wear.

I thought ceejay dropping his townread on me to adding me to his PoE pool of two might've been scum-indicative, since that was when it was looking like I was a viable lynch candidate today, and he might have to vote me as a counterwagon to him (potentially). The explanation he provided for it might be legitimate though, so it's not a confident read.

[Hoctac]

@Kilga: I noticed the unvote but did not think it worth questioning at the time. I only realised I disliked it after rereading. You won't like this answer but questioning into Roses' unvote had absolutely no purpose as was only done for my own entertainment, similar to the other useless fluff questions I asked in the early game. I don't have a particular interest in unvotes or anything.

[Hoctac]

Do you buy it, Penpow?

[Hoctac]

I'd vote for DkKoba. I still have reservations from early on.

I'm like at ceejay>DkKoba/Roses

Hey, Roses, you guys done OMGUSing me yet? Or do you actually scumread me?

[Hoctac]

I don't think it's likely DkKoba is scum pushing what they think is an anti-town strategy with the intention to lead town astray. If they are scum, they're probably propsoing the strat for towncred, and don't actually think it's anti-town.

Sitll prefer ceejay.

[Hoctac]

Dk is a much better lynch than ceejay at this point. Come on Hoctac.

Don't make me bat my beautiful penguin eyes.

I wanna see it happen, Penpow

[Hoctac]

Lul, where's that extension, George?

I was kinda sus Penpow might be scum redirecting from a scum!ceejay lynch, but actually that doesn't make any sense considering he could just go for me instead.

VOTE: DkKoba

Subject to change based on what ceejay's rep comes in and does.

[Hoctac]

Kilga, is your whole case on me still based on the fact I was gimmicking early game, and my vote on Dk was an OMGUS? Come on, I've addresed everything, get out of your deathtunnel pls

[Hoctac]

Fake edit: Hoctac, you are free to stop misinterpreting my explanation for my vote as "Hoctac OMGUSed Koba" at, like, any time. I might even feel less inclined to vote for you!

Could you point me towards what you want me to address? I've talked about the timing stuff a lot

[Hoctac]

It's lylo and scum win if you and the person you're voting are town, Kilga. Maybe wait a little?

[Hoctac]

Oh, that's true.

So, ceejay shot Holden, and scum killed Dk? Dk almost certainly must've shot Penpow.

[Hoctac]

How do you read DkKoba, ceejay?

Probably town

[Hoctac]

Oh, or scum killed Holden while self-protecting. And then ceejay and Dk are causalties from town shooting each other.

I think it's beneficial to claim vig or other (but don't specify) here. And then have vigs claim shots.

[Hoctac]

Night 3 Roses > Tuxedo > Penpow > Kilga would be my preffered order atm. Where do you guys want me to slot in?

[Hoctac]

Claim, Ico!

[Hoctac]

Oh. Claim, Datisi!

[Hoctac]

wHoOpS

how embarrassing

[Hoctac]

If we no lynch, scum will always kill a townie. Then, we're relying on a town vig to shoot the scum that was specifically NOT protected of the two, and not just misfire and kill town. How is it ever superior to lynching?

[Hoctac]

What? Then we'd just lose in the night on a no-lynch. Am I missing soemthing?

[Hoctac]

Yeah, I just rechecked and there's 5 alive, not 6 lul

[Hoctac]

Am I the dumb one or is everyone else??

[Hoctac]

lol so there was a slight error there

Good job using your wizard powers.

[Hoctac]

Roses last???

[Hoctac]

Go on then, Tux.

Penpow, what's your preffered order of the rest?

Same question goes to Tux and Roses.

[Hoctac]

Hoctac: Rose > Penpow > Kilga

Roses: Hoctac > Penpow > Kilga

Tux: Kilga > ??? > ??? > ???

[Hoctac]

Penpow: Roses > Hoctac/Kilga

[Hoctac]

Roses, I think you might be up.

[Hoctac]

I think that's me next. Claiming vig.

[Hoctac]

Penpow and then Kilga it looks like. Keep them coming quickly. Less time to think.

[Hoctac]

Should be obvious. I shot Roses. So 50% I'm a blank, 50% they're scum.

[Hoctac]

Weird. I want to give Kilga towncred for claiming the 4th non-vig, but I think scum!him would be aware that it'd look good to claim it, so it's probably NAI. I'm surprised scum didn't opt to claim vig and claim a kill on Dk, that could've been a psuedo clear of sorts.

[Hoctac]

So now we pretty much know for a fact that ceejay killed Holden, and Dk was killed by scum? This makes no sense to me.

[Hoctac]

I haven't read the recent posts properly yet but could be Roses + Penpow. Would also explain why Penpow really needed to kill DKoba.

Roses, you never scumread me yesterday other than OMGUSing me after voting you. Are you now trying to paint it as a "wow, we scumread him the whole time and he obviously should have been the lynch, why did you guys lynch, enomis"?

I don't buy it all.

[Hoctac]

Okay, I read through more of what you said. You questioned townreads
/not lynching me like 4 times in the last few posts, mentioned how my wagon "disappeared quietly" but didn't state a single reason for why I'm actually scum. Loving the OMGUS, guys. Just need to figure out your scum partner now.

[Hoctac]

Also, that's an incorrect and lazy assessment of my wagon. Look at the reasons why 2 of the 3 voters changed, rather than painting it as "disappearing quietly" without looking at any specifics.

[Hoctac]

I

think

it's Roses + Penpow/Tuxedo. I want to townread Kilga.

If it is Penpow, then it means I actually am a blank since he definitely protected himself in face of DkKoba.

Pedit: Why would I

have

to scumread you? When I did yesterday, I was a wagon so why attract more negative attention and a possible OMGUS?

[Hoctac]

Also, if Tux is the "designated mislynch" as you put it, why do I need to scumread you here and attract and a possible vote?

[Hoctac]

I was joint top on 3 maybe. Holden said he was voting for info. Kilga unvoted and specified exactly why. If you think it's suspicious how my wagon dismantled, you think it's exactly me and Kilga, and he decided to bus yesterday for some reason and then pivoted.

[Hoctac]

Hmm, well, I'm not 100% set on it. We have time and I'll probably reread at some point.

[Hoctac]

Pedit: Why would I

have

to scumread you? When I did yesterday, I was a wagon so why attract more negative attention and a possible OMGUS?

Also, if Tux is the "designated mislynch" as you put it, why do I need to scumread you here and attract and a possible vote?

Could you address this though?

[Hoctac]

Alright.

[Hoctac]

Maybe it's Penpow + Tux

:thonking:

[Hoctac]

How's that catchup of the game coming along, Datisi? You guys got a nice solve for us yet?

[Hoctac]

Oh - I didn't really care about the order because I didn't expect it to accomplish much.

Why not? You can confirm scum in pools with the right claim order, and getting them to claim early.

[Hoctac]

What about you, Tux? You haven't expressed who you think it might be today.

[Hoctac]

me? having a solve? good one
the catchup is currently on life support waiting to be declared dead
this Nobody Playing is not exactly making me Inspired
have you reread yet?

Sounds like it needs some inspiration. What if I quoted some Jangle mechsolve posts from the previous one to help?

And HA no. I'm "V/LA" so no time for a reread unfortunately.

[Hoctac]

Nice, I knew you would. I'll bring back those fond memories later.

V/LA is in quotation marks because I'm still reasonably active while on V/LA.

[Hoctac]

[quote="In

Posting from bed to remind myself to take a different approach in tomorrow's rereads. Rather than looking at pairings, I need to go back and look at who has been demonstrably wrong in their main suspicions, and determine who had better reasons for thinking the way they did versus who had worse reasons for thinking the way they did. This might just be paranoid bedtime thought racing

but I'm starting to get cold mental feet on Tuxedo the more I dwell on this situation

.

can you elaborate on this?

(a) No one's remotely buying into what I've put forth, which suggests pretty strongly it's wrong
(b) Brain is beginning to give credence to the idea that ceejay and enomis were sufficiently close in Tuxedo's mind that he didn't think it worth addressing that ceejay wasn't getting a replacement

Really? What if Tux is town? Do you think mafia would be pretending to buy into what you're saying, or just mostly lurk and hope you place the game winning (for them) vote?

I'm surprised you didn't consider either of those possiblities, considering half of the game from your PoV is scum right now.

[Hoctac]

We need to start discussing who we are gonna lynch and more importantly who we want to hammer

Go on then...

[Hoctac]

Admittedly, Kilga, I have a very bad habit of not reading walls and closely as I would othe posts. As a result, I probably didn't look through your case as thoroughly as I should have. I'll take a proper look later today.

[Hoctac]

Sigh, I have no idea who scum is in this game. Kilga, I was townreading your tone for most this game but suddenly you feel a lot more apologetic.

[Hoctac]

Roses, could you give some reasons for why Penpow is playing like his townself, and how his scum game is different to this?

[Hoctac]

Also, I read your Tuxe case and it doesn't resonate with me that much. I can get behind it being strange why he continuously asked people for why they scumread Ceejay despite voting for him, but the scumreading two people who scumread each other is fine. Preflip analysis is lame and and there's nothing wrong with having independent scumreads.

[Hoctac]

I'm not sure at the moment, Kilga's pinging me the most. I don't like the logic of their push on me at all, it seems like a very dishonest representation of where I stood at the end of day one. Also, their now town read of you seems weird but I don't know if its scum motivated. Would scum!Kilga come into day 2, and say they reevaluated their read of you now that instead of having to convince three people, they and Roses only have to convince one? You could explain that with them potentially being Scum!Hoctac and Scum!Kilga, but I think that's really unlikely since it's a huge risk on their part to have Kiga spend all of day 1 bussing their partner.

I struggle to see a world where Kilga is scum and Roses are town. Since, Kilga absolutely continues scumreading me and capitalises on Roses' scumread on me to win today.

Roses pushing Kilga here also suggests they're not scum together either. So weirdly that means Kilga is probably town here?

That makes sense, right?

[Hoctac]

My best guess at this juncture is PP + Hoctac. See my 962 for my current opinion on PP. I looked through a Hoctac + clidd/PP Day 1 iso yesterday and their interactions were somewhat limited and fairly casual when they happened, and some of PP's stated suspicion of me is based on things Hoctac has done, which I have no control over.

Fake edit: Why are you asking me who I want lynched when I already posted 962? If you're going to gun for me this hard, shouldn't you be reading all of my posts? (RE: Hammer, either of them can hammer the other, but I'd prefer Hoctac hammer PP.)

Wait, what? You imply you think it's me + Penpow through associative stuff, but then want one of us to hammer the other? Shouldn't you get someone from another possible team pairing to want to hammer him, or are we your top independent scumreads as well?

[Hoctac]

your dear friend Hectic was playing in the last iteration of this setup which featured scum!pingu, has he told you about that game? to me PP feels different to me this game than there, do you not feel the same?

I guess he didn't really make a push in lylo and more so sat back. Actually, he was more passive the whole game there. True.

[Hoctac]

Wait, actually, Penpow is capable of being aggressive and vocal as scum too. You're townreading him off the sample size of just 2 games?

[Hoctac]

So you are proposing my attitude should be "this isn't accomplishing anything but I'm going to do it anyway"? That would be a very illogical approach, particularly in LYLO. If what I've done so far isn't accomplishing anything then town is much better served that I look for things I might have missed elsewhere.

What I'm saying is that this line of reasoning is flawed...

If Tuxedo were scum, then two of those three reactions are genuine town reactions from people that seem to know what they're doing better than I. That's enough to tell me that the case isn't worth pursuing.

If that's true then they don't 'know what they're doing better'. Right, from Town!Kilga perspective town can either have majority genuine reaction to me and be wrong or have a majority ingenuine reaction to me and be right. It can't be both. So to drop it here feels really off. Now Scum!Kilga could reach this conclusion because they know two of Roses, PP, and Hoctac reactions are genuine and not being convinced to lynch Town!Tux.

Also, if Kilga is town, I don't see scum's play here? Like I'm pretty sure going for the quick hammer on me is the best play.

I don't know regarding the last line. I feel like if the scumteam is Penpow + Roses, it's entirely possible they just sit back and hope Kilga votes you and then they quickhammer for the win. But waiting around instead of voicing support in this case might have backfired if that was the case.

[Hoctac]

I think it's Penpow + Roses/Tux now. The DkKoba kill coming from scum only makes sense if Penpow is scum. If he's town, then having DkKoba and Penpow battle it out in lylo is like an easy victory for scum.

I want to vote Penpow.

[Hoctac]

Oh, true. But still, that DkKoba kill does imply you.

How am I scum with Kilga if he was seriously pushing for me for most of day 1. Like full on casing, asking people to look at this case, and constantly asking people to vote me?

[Hoctac]

Not if Penpow is town though? They were both death tunnelled.

[Hoctac]

Eh, I don't know. I was voting them EoD yesterday. Tuxe was voting them yesterday as well for times.

[Hoctac]

But yeah, obviously, it's not clear cut and framing/WIFOM exists. It just makes it more likely.

[Hoctac]

ceejay was townreading DkKoba. No one here has claimed kills on anyone who died. So it has to be ceejay killing Holden and blowing up, and DkKoba dying to the nightkill. Also, we can safely assume DkKoba would've shot Penpow in the night, and clearly that did nothing.

The lylo thing was an incorrect assumption on my part, but yeah, I would think scum would want to keep both around.

[Hoctac]

How do you read DkKoba, ceejay?

Probably town

[Hoctac]

You mean least resistance?

And I think it's fair to assume the kills happened like that tbh. The alternative is DkKoba and ceejay killing each other(??) and scum killing Holden.

[Hoctac]

Kilga dropped his scumread when he came in today pushing Tuxe and making no mention of being suspicious of me. Lack of suspicions I'm taking as dropping his scumread.

[Hoctac]

Who's your preffered lynch and hammer, Roses, and why?

[Hoctac]

You mean least resistance?

And I think it's fair to assume the kills happened like that tbh. The alternative is DkKoba and ceejay killing each other(??) and scum killing Holden.

err, what i meant is "if PP were to be scum here, he'd be taking a more difficult path, but i don't think scum!him would do that, so i don't think he's scum"
but your interpretation gets the point across too i think

or both Koba and ceejay blowing up on Holden with one of the three of them being a nightkill?

also i vaguely remember reading someone saying that "it was pretty obvious Koba wouldn't shoot PP" and i'm thinking about that

-D

I see. Also, that's something I didn't consider.

Technically

a possibility, but just less likely.

[Hoctac]

Kilga dropped his scumread when he came in today pushing Tuxe and making no mention of being suspicious of me. Lack of suspicions I'm taking as dropping his scumread.

what do you think about 983?

-D

Well, he's pushing Penpow to be lynched over me. The main point I was making is that he could specifically target

me

to capitalise on your scumread on me, but he didn't. Anyway, after Ico started reconsidering it became irrelevant.

Who's your preffered lynch and hammer, Roses, and why?

probably still Kilga, and i'd prefer him choosing his own hammerer if it comes down to it

-D

Sigh. I have no idea. Kilga seems to be the person actually trying to solve today, and rereading and trying to come up with cases. I got townpings from Ico's 180 on me, but maybe I'm making a huge mistake again by not going for the person I shot in the night and didn't die.

Tuxe... I gotta see more from you. You've been careful, you agreed with me saying Kilga is town, and you townread me, do does that mean you think it's Roses+Penpow?

[Hoctac]

btw love the gin avi, did Kanna choose it?

-D

Actually, Isis did lol. She's playing through the game right now. I still haven't sigh. One day.

[Hoctac]

Hoctac is Town.

What was the reasoning behind this read back then, Penpow?

[Hoctac]

Tuxey, I'm just thinking about the odds of it being you + Roses now. I think in my ideal world, I'd want Roses to hammer Penpow. Because Tuxey + Kilga is the least likely pairing imo, unless Kilga comes out planning to bus and hoping no one buys his case. That would be strange.

[Hoctac]

If Penpow is a town super saint and Roses is scum, we'd be down to 2v1 going into the night. Scum knows they can safely kill me. So to win, I'd have to NOT be a blank vig AND correctly choose in [Tuxe, Kilga]. Yikes, hopefully that doesn't happen.

[Hoctac]

Hum de dum. Maybe Penpow should hammer Roses instead of the other way around. Picking a fight with DkKoba upon entering the game does seem like a strange thing for town!Penpow to do, when his partner isn't a competing wagon.

Or MAYBE, Tuxe should hammer Roses then. Am I getting closer?

[Hoctac]

If Penpow is a town super saint and Roses is scum, we'd be down to 2v1 going into the night. Scum knows they can safely kill me. So to win, I'd have to NOT be a blank vig AND correctly choose in [Tuxe, Kilga]. Yikes, hopefully that doesn't happen.

you should reread the rules, or am i misreading them?

scum can just roleblock you and make a kill, no?

Good point.

[Hoctac]

So, the supersaint thing actually doesn't matter at all. We need to lynch scum today or we lose.

[Hoctac]

Picking a fight with DkKoba upon entering the game does seem like a strange thing for town!Penpow to do, when his partner isn't a competing wagon.

You mean scum!Penpow?

Yeah

[Hoctac]

Hmm, help me out here, George. I'm kind of lost.

I'm leaning towards Roses + Tuxey now.

[Hoctac]

Doesn't scum win with partity? You're shading me with a transparent umbrella.

[Hoctac]

Mafia wins endgames where they control 50% of the town UNLESS the remaining townie(s) is a Bomb, in which case it's a tie.

Oh wait, how does this work? What if there's 2 remaining townies and one is a Bomb (scum don't know which), does the game continue?

[Hoctac]

Wait, my argument still applies. If there's 2 scum alive, they can just self-heal and kill a bomb, so yeah, it doesn't matter who gets lynched today if it's town (for scum).

[Hoctac]

Yeah - gotta make sure you lynch that bomb.

What were you misunderstanding?

[Hoctac]

Both would have to be bombs and it would be a tie.

Oh, so it's like a special drawcon that overrules stuff. I see.

[Hoctac]

If scum lynch a SS without being the hammer and the remaining two townies are bombs, the game is a tie.

I get it now, except if scum lynched a SS without being the hammer, there'd be 2 scum and 1 town alive, so that'd be a scum win. Otherwise, yeah.

[Hoctac]

A draw is bad as a loss tbh. Technically, from all of your perspectives, you should want me to be the hammer for any lynch. Since if I'm town and we lynch a supersaint, the best result town can get is a draw at that point.

[Hoctac]

*is as bad as

[Hoctac]

Not confident though. Sigh, I wish we didn't have 2 days left. I'd like to make some semblance of a case but I finally get off V/LA on the 12th...

[Hoctac]

Kilga, why'd you townread Roses?

If we're to talk about stuff based on memory, I didn't like:
▪︎They asked a lot questions but I saw little stated opinions/reads of their own during day 1. It was why I originally voted them.
▪︎Ico OMGUSing me and them bring happy to leave their vote there till deadline.
▪︎Datisi popping in every so often to say "can we please lynch scum ok thanks bye"

[Hoctac]

▪︎Datisi popping in every so often to say "can we please lynch scum ok thanks bye"

I was mostly wrong about this fyi. I looked back and he made those posts while drunk.

[Hoctac]

Hmm, Penpow + Tuxey(?)

Maybe.

[Hoctac]

Like Tuxey, what are you trying to do to solve? In 1091, you're not reading into the implications of me suggesting that people should think that, and are instead asking Penpow like it'll help you solve his alignment. How will it?

Also, I find your solve to be a little simplistic. From your PoV, I could totally see Penpow + Hoctac. We've shaded each other but Penpow is pushing Kilga to be lynched, while I'm kinda all over the place and certainly haven't committed to Penpow being lynched.

[Hoctac]

I'm now leaning towards lynching Tuxey. Kilga, no one was engaging with you on your case, but the truth is that if Tuxey is scum, one of the other 3 is scum, 1 was me who didn't read it properly at the time (I know, my bad), and the other could just be apathetic town.

[Hoctac]

Well, I townread Kilga and can't find a partner for him due to how this day has played out. Like, he cased and vote you, Penpow and Roses both want him lynched, and now you're also pushing him. I guess bussing is a thing, but it didn't feel necessary?

[Hoctac]

Hoctac: Rose > Penpow > Kilga

Roses: Hoctac > Penpow > Kilga

Tux: Kilga > ??? > ??? > ???

Penpow: Roses > Hoctac/Kilga

This is also weird to look back at now.

[Hoctac]

Tux: Kilga > ??? > ??? > ???

I guess Kilga > Roses > Hoctac > and Penguin

I think if Tuxey is scum, this points towards Penpow being his scum partner as well. By putting Roses there after everyone else had stated preferences, he guarentees, Roses claims next, which means both scum are in the first two claims, which is pretty bad.

[Hoctac]

Just the fact Roses and Penpow were cool with Kilga at the start of the day. Should look at who of the two of [Roses,Penpow] started pushing Kilga first, and who tagged along, since if Kilga is scum, his partner is most likely the person who was second in scumreading him. Since at that point, we have you + 1st person scumreading him, so scum buddy might feel like they have to bus.

[Hoctac]

I'm solving from my perspective. Of course I'm gonna look for the busser (who is the 3rd person to push Kilga probably was my thinking). Do you want me to tell you that you guys should look at me if we lynch Kilga and he flips scum?

[Hoctac]

Kilga is still my least preffered lynch, I'm not pivoting. I'm just considering stuff. Thing is, if Kilga is town, there's only 1 town in the other 3 of you, and that town is convinced Kilga is scum because I make sense as their partner, but the reason I think Kilga is town is because no one else makes sense as his partner. It's a weird cycle.

[Hoctac]

I guess thinking about teams is really stupid actually. I can't predict whether or not scum will bus. I should really just be trying to lynch the most scummy person individually speaking.

[Hoctac]

And currently I think that is you, Mr. Tuxey. But what do I know, eh?

[Hoctac]

I don't know!!!!@1

We have a day and 14 hours left...

[Hoctac]

I agree with you on that; in fact, I was the first person to point that out. Individually speaking, I think Penpow is towny for play, but the DkKoba NK points towards him. I liked Kilga day 1 with his solving and case on me, and I liked how he entered today with his case on you, but since then, he's been less inspiring and feels more cautious/apologetic. You were cool on day 1, but your tone shifted a lot upon entering LyLo it feels like, and you haven't done much to try and solve people. Roses I think is kinda scummy by play, I still don't like their day 1, but I got 1 town ping from how Ico 180ed on me lol. Unsure if I should be giving that much stake.

If I had to rank them, then maybe:
Penpow
Kilga
Roses
Tuxey

But they're very jumbled and close together in my head. I'm sure of very little and that's very worrying.

[Hoctac]

Oh yeah, the way Penpow was talking about the Bongle situation but being unnecessarily uncooperative in explaining DkKoba's misunderstanding was a little scummy.

[Hoctac]

I get your reasons, Kilga. I shouldn't have Penpow so high. I think I want to lynch Tuxey or Penpow now.

[Hoctac]

Kilga
Roses
Tuxey
Penpow

My reads are incredibly inconsistent. Don't @ me.

[Hoctac]

Sigh, good point.

[Hoctac]

Too many people are defending Penpow here. It mostly likely means he's town and getting TMIed by at least 1 scum. Since Roses and Tuxey both really like him.

[Hoctac]

Huh, Roses + Kilga? Okay, I'll stop now for tonight.

[Hoctac]

Anyway, reasoning for that is that Kilga/Tuxey are unaligned because of start of day case, and both scum whiteknighting Penpow would be really strange, so by that logic it's those 2. But again, I'm doing preflip solving when I should be going for the scummiest person, so please ignore me. I've never been so lost in a LyLo where I don't have any real scumreads. It's a frustrating feeling. Anyway, I'm out.

[Hoctac]

Sigh, good point.

for someone who keeps insisting Tux is scum, you agree with him an awfull lot

What's the point of this misrep when it's so easily disprovable? I don't really have any scumreads, and I've been scumreading you/Penpow for longer periods than Tuxey today. Also, see:

But they're very jumbled and close together in my head. I'm sure of very little and that's very worrying.

I've never been so lost in a LyLo where I don't have any real scumreads. It's a frustrating feeling. Anyway, I'm out.

[Hoctac]

I also still can't drop Kilga's dropping of me which might be tunneling but I can't see the town mindset in it. Also, Hoctac's all over the place reads while maintaining Kilga near the top feels like the scum team trying to secure a lynch on you.

You think Kilga and I would be so blatant about it? That even after all 3 of you want to lynch Kilga, I'll still be defending him and going for anyone but him? That's a terrible losing strategy if we're scum.

[Hoctac]

Roses + Tuxey? ggggggggg

[Hoctac]

I agree with you on that; in fact, I was the first person to point that out. Individually speaking, I think Penpow is towny for play, but the DkKoba NK points towards him. I liked Kilga day 1 with his solving and case on me, and I liked how he entered today with his case on you, but since then, he's been less inspiring and feels more cautious/apologetic. You were cool on day 1, but your tone shifted a lot upon entering LyLo it feels like, and you haven't done much to try and solve people. Roses I think is kinda scummy by play, I still don't like their day 1, but I got 1 town ping from how Ico 180ed on me lol. Unsure if I should be giving that much stake.

If I had to rank them, then maybe:
Penpow
Kilga
Roses
Tuxey

But they're very jumbled and close together in my head. I'm sure of very little and that's very worrying.

Ez game

Ignore all the items I changed my mind pls

[Hoctac]

Hoc you had every single solve at some point

That was the last one I posted though. I take full credit.

[Hoctac]

Wait, so scum killed Holden, and DkKoba and ceejay killed each other? Very strange

[Hoctac]

One of these days I won't be a blank vig in this setup...

Scum!Penpow and Roses have both evaded death night 1 now. I'm kinda surprised you guys protected Tuxey over Roses though.

[Hoctac]

You were all fun to play with for sure. Well played, Roses and Tuxey. Well deserved win.

Tuxey's avatar has grown on me btw, it's now top tier.

[Hoctac]

Oh wow lol, I didn't notice. Imagine the

avatar edit? Must be Datisi

solve