Micro 1041: Geriatric F11 [Postgame]
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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Bus your buddy and vote Roadkill with me.In post 21, Dwlee99 wrote:UNVOTE:
I've seen lolhammer in RVS, typically from scum though, or in a meme game. I don't think it is scummy to question that line from Andante but I don't think that line is AI from her either.
I like Umlaut for town right now so I'll join this
VOTE: mc Esther3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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In post 27, joqiza wrote:Are you gonna explain that or are you just gonna act mysterious and make me speculate as to your reasoning. I can only assume you SR Roadkill for the E-1 and as for Dwlee I have no idea why you voted him when you did
Roadkill was for the Andante vote, yes. Town are usually too paranoid to do that because it opens up dumb hammer possibilities where scum feels more confident it won't happen and if it does, they expect the hammer to look worse than their vote anyway.In post 27, joqiza wrote:Are you gonna explain that or are you just gonna act mysterious and make me speculate as to your reasoning. I can only assume you SR Roadkill for the E-1 and as for Dwlee I have no idea why you voted him when you did
Dwelees entrance "someone has to start the game" shows an awkwardness I noticed from him in a pick your poison game we just played. It's kind of a mix of not really seeming to want to post and justifying why he is doing so anyway. The unvote when the wagon got big and vote on Mc Esther to create a mini wagon kind of confirms this. And actually the more I look at this the more I'm making myself confident in Dwelee over Roadkill so I'm probably switching at the end of this post. I'm gonna finish reading first though.
Why and why?Three wrote: VOTE: mc esther
Umlaut is very likely town
Unvote, Vote Dwelee3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Roadkill, sometimes new players roll scum and just start voting ant town that gets run up without thinking of the consequence. The fact that you're not a brand new player means you weren't doing that. It's still an opportunistic looking vote, but you having experience means you likely are aware how it looks and might be more likely to avoid it ad scum than a new player would be. My reply to joqiza stands, but it isn't nearly as strong as the opportunistic newbie tell would have been.
It's Page 2 of Day 1. I'm not looking for connections.joqiza wrote: how are you connecting the points between dwlee's entrance/awkwardness and the andante vote?3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Oh, yep. My mistake.Roadkill wrote: and i think you meant to quote me here
Oh, Dwelees Andante vote, not yours. Yes. You're reading it right. I gotta quit playing this game while my kids talk to me lol.Roadkill wrote: here, you said that the unvote from the andante wagon confirms... that dwlee didn't want to post/that they were awkward?
But yes, it felt awkward for him to leave one wagon and push another toward wagon status.
Why wouldn't my vote count?Roadkill wrote: also, i'm unsure if sleepless's vote will count, but i think dwlee is on e-1.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Yeah I'm curious where that read comes from.
3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Andante so is your case on joqiza that he's trying to get people to use up posts? If so, can you tell me how that benefits scum? Joqiza is probably my strongest town read which probably makes you think I'm scum with him but oh well lol.
I kind of think he's town for now. But yeah that post kind of started the dialogue. He hasn't replied yet. I don't know how you fault me for it not going anywhere yet.Andante wrote:
63 is "Umlaut, how is explaining my reads on Dwelee and Roadkill fluffy? Also your reads are about opposite mine so... yeah. This game could be awkward."
like, you're acknowledging opposite reads? you don't want to try and explain why a sr of umlaut is town? or why an umlaut tr is maf? instead of just calling it awkward, you could work with umlaut?
I assume you mean Pony on Mafia Universe?Andante wrote: ~ This post is on Dwlee (see, super clear! post before this was Sleepless) ~
lol Dwlee trying to pocket me I see... also if you know pony? idk you XD (maybe I do... idk lol)
Is there a reason defending you is town rather than a white knight?Andante wrote: I like 21!! it's like, kinda sticking up for me when I wasn't here "yeah it's not AI" like, thank you!! lol me getting hammered there was a genuine concern, cause I feel like I'm definitely the kind of person to get lolhammered
Preview edit: I'm gonna get in before the reset so I haven't read that yet3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Your first few posts felt like you were trying to understand where people were coming from and then taking it a step further and working with them to make sure if they were town making genuine statements they were on a correct thought process. Examples:joqiza wrote: @SA what did I do to be your strongest TR
1. Calling out Andante saying she's seen random hammers from town. It's an easy statement to make, but if she doesn't have examples of it, it might make her question whether it's something that could happen here
2.Questioning Dwelees stance on Andante. I like how you went in depth about there being multiple layers with not only whether she's correct but whether she actually believes she's correct because her perception is more important when it comes to getting a read on her in this case.
3. Asking me to explain my first two votes. I have been starting games this way intentionally lately to see who asks for more and get some conversation started. I liked that you asked.
4. The "bad" discussion. You're absolutely right that it can mean more than one thing, so getting people to commit to what they meant, while it may seem nitpicky, is helpful.
I actually like your line of questioning on Mcesther just now too. That vote stood out to me but I wasn't sure how to approach it. It felt like it was placed in a way that could sneak in unnoticed but I really haven't scumread the slot so far so maybe there's an explanation. Either way, I'm glad you asked and I'm looking forward to the answer. The Three vote interests me too. I'm curious what comes of that.
No. There's context around that. The post being called fluff was basically me expanding on the discussion to say I didn't buy his explanation. Being so concerned over post count already seems off.Umlaut wrote: 33 is explaining a read? You're reading Dwlee as scum for... being more concerned about the post limit than you? That's novel
It would be pointless if I knew he was scum, sure. But it's early and I'm not entirely confident and as I acknowledged a few times, my confidence even weakened after that point. So yes, I answered his question. A discussion can help me get a stronger read on him and it also helps him and others to read me if they know where my head is at. I was surprised you saw it as fluff because I was answering a question about a read. That's kind of how you play mafia lol. While I do make posts that aren't entirely game related and can be seen as fluff posts occasionally from time to time especially in slower games, I really don't think I have been doing that here.Umlaut wrote: 46 is pointless/fluffy because (1) explaining to Roadkill that he's scum is a fundamentally pointless exercise, and (2) it doesn't go anywhere, just sort of peters out with "I could see it as maybe opportunistic/scummy but also maybe not3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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I really thought you were about to say Andante/Dwelee could be a possible team. What made you think pocketing if you don't think Dwelee is likely enough to be town to have earned a spot in the middle of a reads list? What reason would Andante as scum have to pocket a town Dwelee?Joqiza wrote: I'm pretty suspicious of this read on Dwlee because I don't think Dwlee has been particularly towny. I think he has been more null and I'm not sure I believe how Andante is taking his posts here and reaching the conclusion that he's one of the towniest, unless she's just particularly partial to his defense of her. I think this could be a pocket attempt.
Do you have experience with Andante as scum? If so, is there something you've seen in her scum play to make you think she doesn't try as scum?Dwelee wrote: Andante has zero reason to tryhard like that given gamestate if scum. Don't understand the vote there at all
Your conversation didn't really do anything for me from a theory perspective. I've played enough mafia. The risk of a random hammer is usually overstated, but still very real. The important thing is town is usually more legitimately concerned about it happening where scum just wants to come off that way. If someone had sounded really fake around the wagon, it would have raised red flags. Maybe its worth going back to look, but I didn't have that impression. For what it's worth, Roadkill hasn't looked scummy since that vote so I'm not currently scumreading the slot.Joqiza wrote: One thing that was felt weird to me at the time was the fact that after our discussion about town not really lolhammering, he went ahead and scumread Roadkill for the E-1 thing without really seeming to directly reference the conversation we just had.
Everyone else seems to think Looker prefers playing as scum so why would Looker have this reaction to a scum PM?Andante wrote: From looker, stuff like "Sorry, still reading but I couldn't resist" there's only 100 posts to read. Looker's initial reaction to repping in was "ah crap. scum. ok I'll do something later" like, that's exactly how I interpretted "O hi, hello. I guess I'm here now lol.
Give me some hours; I'll be back later on."
So I'm definitely sold on Looker maf.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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I don't agree. Andante was getting wagoned and scum get self conscious about ignoring wagons on their buddy. He had to take a stance but he's not gonna bus in the first few pages of the game. And a strong town read raises red flags. So his options are wave it off as nothing because it's so early or give a weak town read. "Sorta townie" sounds like a weak town read. I don't at all see this move as bold if they are scum together. I will say I'm not scumreading Andante independently though. I'm not really sure how to read her. She plays this game so differently than I do. I've seen her town game but not her scum game and I just have no clue what she'd do differently. The ISO thing you were pushing stood out to me too because it looks like busywork, but I'm not sure Andante would have any need to produce busywork as scum. I feel like she would be able to give plenty of content without it. And lacking context feels like a disadvantage for town so first instinct is she might be scum because she's not worried about that, but it was like five pages and she could easily catch up reading through as either alignment.Joqiza wrote: My intuition is that Dwlee doesn't make 74 in a world where he and Andante are partnered. At that point in the game, Dwlee has the spotlight on him, and I'm crowing about Andante a decent amount. I just think it feels too bold for Dwlee to defend his one-post partner so randomly and so blatantly, in that situation
Ok, that's fair. I can still see it either way but I get your logic there. I usually think of pocketing as being something scum would do to a powerful voice and Dwelee so far doesn't fit that role, but I can see the value in having any player never vote you in such a small game, especially if she can keep him alive long term.Joqiza wrote: The second part of your question I'm not sure how to answer, I would say that town!Dwlee seems like a valuable game piece to scum!Andante since in this world he's basically just a potato who sits there and townreads her.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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My opinion is decent compromise. I like that Three is voting Dwelee with me. I didn't like a few things that were unexplained early on, but when I asked, Three's explanation was fine. I dunno. I just don't see a lot. If I have to compromise, I'd probably rather do Mc Esther. But I'd vote Three over a bunch of people not being voted.In post 185, Umlaut wrote:More votes/opinions on Three plz
Weird thing to say right after I say I'm willing to compromise on Looker.
3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Want to vote Dwelee? I'll give you cookies or something.In post 201, joqiza wrote:I'm... very frayed right now. (Nothing related to this game). My main thought right now is that mc esther's posting on the past couple pages feels ridiculously towny. I don't know what I'm seeing differently from other people, but her consideration of Three feels like bleeding my obvious town regardless of what Three is. I'm shielding this slot and prepared to pay the price if I'm wrong.
My townreads are Umlaut, Roadkill, and MC E. Need to head back to work but will try to phonepost while my boss isn't looking.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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I actually agree with you that the top wagons are people who don't make sense as scum with Dwelee. I can't see Dwelee/Three at all. I don't believe in Dwelee/mc esther all that much. I kind of lean towards if Dwelee is scum, it's with Andante or Roadkill who I don't have as being scum individually. But this feels like a Day 2 discussion to me.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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You and Dwelee are the lead wagons. Are you town reading Dwelee so strongly that you'd prefer to either die or have no elimination go through?In post 203, mc esther wrote:myself, andante, umlaut, and looker have all said that dwlee isnt happening. im guessing dwlee wont self-vote. this wagon isnt happening.
looker seems to reject every viable wagon though, which, um. i dont think i have such a strong preference on three over looker any more.
myself, three, and looker all still appear to be viable.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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In post 211, Looker wrote:Are there any cases other than thinly veiled survivalism
Mainly their awkwardness in their first few posts when their role PM would have been freshest in their mind. It sounds like they have a history if struggling as scum, and they haven't produced a whole lot here. And they just feels so similar to the last game I played with them where they were scum. And just a complete lack of anything town.In post 211, Looker wrote:Are there any cases other than thinly veiled survivalism
Preview edit: Yeah I'd encourage you to read the very beginning. That's where my scum read came from.Last edited by catboi on Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Sorry, feel free to edit my post. Is it possible to have this post not count against my limit?
3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Mc esther, I was trying to get you to vote dwelee. When you didn't answer and I thought deadline was less than an hour away, I gave up. When you included yourself as viable and seemed more willing to die than vote Dwelee, the last thing I would have thought was power role. And I'm still skeptical but common sense says you live today barring a counter claim.
You think I lied about thinking deadline was tonight? That's pretty provable. Lying about that doesn't help scum.Looker wrote: Sleepless tried to rush the deadline and put esther at e-1 without saying3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Does "tried to stay out of the spotlight" just mean "compromised" here? I wasn't gonna hard push Three when I preferred Dwelee.Andante wrote: See Sleepless never really did too much, other than just go "I'm here at eod to hammer whatever" tried to stay out of the spotlight3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Why wouldn't scum worry about being called out for being wrong?Dwelee wrote: This is incredibly disingenuous when my activity across the entire site was zero
VOTE: Looker
Think town!you would bother to check that3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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In post 344, Umlaut wrote:Weren't you worried about a deadline crunch leaving us having to hammer someone without a claim (which in fact is what happened)?
Isn't that kind of one of the reasons to hurry?In post 344, Umlaut wrote:Weren't you worried about a deadline crunch leaving us having to hammer someone without a claim (which in fact is what happened)?3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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In post 349, Umlaut wrote:Yeah, what I meant is, you (Sleepless) didn't seem concerned that by waiting until the last second on Three/Roadkill we would be forced to hammer without a claim, in the way that you said you were concerned about thatvis a visMC Esther.
I mean cop was already out but I see your point.In post 349, Umlaut wrote:Yeah, what I meant is, you (Sleepless) didn't seem concerned that by waiting until the last second on Three/Roadkill we would be forced to hammer without a claim, in the way that you said you were concerned about thatvis a visMC Esther.
Sorry my heads not really in this. Got bad news recently.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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I'm way too tired to read and think today but I'm somehow feeling both bored and overwhelmed at the same time. It just feels like nothing happened to change my mind since Day 1 on anything and it's hard to see anything that will without a flip. Umlaut and joqiza and probably Roadkill too I'm confident are town. Dwelee I'm confident is scum. Looker I haven't seen a convincing case on. Andante I think I need flips to sort. So it really just feels like a waiting game.
I'm trying to read through the kids crying but I'm just not processing words. Aren't snow days fun?3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Not really. I've given my reads. You all know I would rather it be Dwelee than myself.In post 446, joqiza wrote:Any last thoughts from... anyone, I guess? I'll probably hammer a little closer to deadline than I said before.
I mean if Dwelee has a claim to make before hammer there's that but I think he would have already.
No one's asked me to claim so I don't feel I need to.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Hey everyone. I usually don't read things at night but I was excited at Dwelees flip so I went over his ISO. Let me go back to it and show you my thoughts.
Dwelee wrote: I don't like to bus in micros thoughDwelee wrote:That it's page 2 (now 3) of a game? What kind of a question is this
The first quote was Dwelees response when I asked them to bus Roadkill. It sounds too straightforward to be a real buddy. Second quote was a response to Roadkill and feels too snippy to be an interaction between two scum, especially so early in a game with only two scum. Third, same idea as second even though it came on Day 2.Dwelee wrote: Games have deadlines and one was in ELO
Dwelee wrote: I like Umlaut for town right nowDwelee wrote: My takes are umlaut town, mc esther scum
These are Dwelees mentions of Umlaut. No explanation whatsoever. Just a lazy "he's town". I could be wrong but my read on Dwelees personality is that they'd feel a need to overjustify a town read on a buddy or at least have some awkwardness around it. So this sounds like a lazy town read assigned to a town player who others think is town anyway.Dwelee wrote: I think Umlaut is town.
This is Dwelees town read on joquiza. It's got a few more words but still very concise.Dwelee wrote: I think Joqiza is town for 124. It sits in my brain very well and it's just... well-reasoned
Dwelee wrote: Andante is sorta townie.Dwelee wrote: Andante has zero reason to tryhard like that given gamestate if scum. Don't understand the vote there at allDwelee wrote: I thought I still had more votes than I did when she started, this is less strong. I was thinking I still had 3 or 4 votes when she started, but I think we had tied wagons and there actually is incentives there. I still want to townread the effort but as I said less strong
Now this is how Dwelee addresses a town read on Andante. I understand Andante was wagoned early, but once she did her ISOs the suspicion faded. So this has that overjustified defense feel that I was looking for with a hint of awkwardness. The difference between the town reads on Umlaut/Joqiza and Andante are night and day. There's one obvious reason why that might be. Andante is his scum buddy.Dwelee wrote: I am pretty sure Andante is town here. I know there are doubters and maybe I'm just pocketed for her defense of my slot but I have no intention of voting her today.
So my next step was to go to Andantes ISO and see what she said about Dwelee. And I remember her doing ISOs on everyone right st the beginning. So I look at the one on Dwelee and you know what? Something does stand out:Andante wrote: 51 -LOL yeah! roadkill brings up a great point!! Why no wild spam this game?? suspicious.
So Andante agreed with a point made against Dwelee. And yeah I get that most of her post was about Dwelee looking town, but that one point feels so out of place and I don't think Andante ever revisited it and she placed Dwelee pretty high on her town reads for someone who found something suspicious in Dwelees ISO.Andante wrote: uh yeah, so Dwlee is probably town, town lean, like, they're solving, but not solving for the purpose of being TRed (I think that makes sense) like, maf cares about appearance or coasts, there's no in between ever, So far my reads are looking like:
Town to Scum:
Three/Umlaut - tied for towniest
Dwlee
mc esther
Sleepless
Joqiza
Combine that with Andantes terrible trajectory on Dwelee (Town -> Vote -> Umvote quickly -> Dwelee null read at time of vote) and Andantes crusade against a me/looker team on Day 2 and I think I'm confident enough to
Vote Andante3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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In post 466, Andante wrote:hahaha Dwlee... I guess that succesful pocket attempt worked, cause not only did I TR you, apparently that makes me your partner lol thanks for taking me down with you!!!
@Town members it is literally not me. I know signs point to me, but I'm just a clueless townie. WHY WOULD I KILL LOOKER THERE??? Why not kill joqiza? who was way townier than looker, or so I thought... now I'm just gonna TR anyone who doesn't vote me, which makes me... in trouble lol
5/10
Dwelees flip eliminated the possibility of your me/looker team and joqizas hammer could have looked bad. It is a good point about the looker kill though. I was surprised to see it but haven't really thought yet about who does it and why. I think I was too confident after seeing Dwelees ISO to really think about new info from the flip. I dunno. It does make some level of sense you'd do it as kind of giving up on that push. Like it didn't work Day 2 and now the associative possibility is gone so it feels too hard. Thinking back though, that's not at all the kill I'd have expected so maybe it's worth thinking over why.In post 466, Andante wrote:hahaha Dwlee... I guess that succesful pocket attempt worked, cause not only did I TR you, apparently that makes me your partner lol thanks for taking me down with you!!!
@Town members it is literally not me. I know signs point to me, but I'm just a clueless townie. WHY WOULD I KILL LOOKER THERE??? Why not kill joqiza? who was way townier than looker, or so I thought... now I'm just gonna TR anyone who doesn't vote me, which makes me... in trouble lol
5/10
But couldn't he easily get away with hammering me on being just one day away from a win?Andante wrote: I mean, all joqiza did on the dwlee case was hammer. and maf would hammer for towncred tbh
UNVOTE:
Is the answer just joq? but why would his maf strat be to tunnel me then back off, then tunnel again?3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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I dunno. I just don't see how the hammer would be enough town cred to be worth his partner's life. It would be one thing if he was leading the charge or something but I don't see it being worthwhile.
I think he had enough new info between posts 76 and 463.
And I don't see how stating two town reads sets them up for the next day.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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My thoughts landed me here too. The only person who really needs to know right this minute is the person stressing over who to NK. Unless a counter wagon pops up, I really don't think discussing other reads helps right now.Umlaut wrote: I don't think advertising which player I find towniest right now is a great idea.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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Andante so you believe I lied about reading at night and coming back to old thoughts to post? What's the benefit in that?
You also believe I spent two game days tunneled on my buddy in a micro? And that we made zero push on town Day 2 and instead decided to cross bus?
As for not wanting to share reads, yes I came to the same conclusion as Umlaut but I came to that conclusion on my own. It feels obvious because no one stands out as an obvious next NK. If we are eliminating you anyway, it doesn't help town to discuss further unless someone has something groundbreaking in which case we probably have a discussion over eliminating elsewhere which would nullify the idea of not talking town reads. I don't have an idea what I'd want to do if you flip town. I just don't want to tell scum what that is because if my second guess is also wrong and scum NK that person, I get a third chance to find scum. I'd hope I don't need that many chances but you never know.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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In post 503, Andante wrote:
of course. cause you're definitely "not scum" and town you wouldn't want to work with me to find someone... nooo. instead I flip town, you go into tomorrow just like "well idk" and yall have even less activity than there is right now. and town will lose. it's kinda that easy. if you want even less activity, go for it. The Looker kill was cause looker was very good, in that they talked a lot, made cases. maf knows I'm yeeted here...In post 502, Sleepless Assassin wrote:I don't have an idea what I'd want to do if you flip town.
have fun tomorrow lol. I'd self hammer, but figured I might as well let yall get all the info you can from my town flip lol but as long as no one else is even trying, I see no point in me really doing much lol
My phone auto corrected. I typed "I do have an idea " , not "I don't have an idea". Context from the rest of the post should make that obvious.In post 503, Andante wrote:
of course. cause you're definitely "not scum" and town you wouldn't want to work with me to find someone... nooo. instead I flip town, you go into tomorrow just like "well idk" and yall have even less activity than there is right now. and town will lose. it's kinda that easy. if you want even less activity, go for it. The Looker kill was cause looker was very good, in that they talked a lot, made cases. maf knows I'm yeeted here...In post 502, Sleepless Assassin wrote:I don't have an idea what I'd want to do if you flip town.
have fun tomorrow lol. I'd self hammer, but figured I might as well let yall get all the info you can from my town flip lol but as long as no one else is even trying, I see no point in me really doing much lol3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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In post 508, Andante wrote:lol well, the correct answer was "if you're town don't self hammer" glad yall want my help around here, like you 2 voting me, you seem to know game continues after my lim.. like, heloooo I'm here... and town!!!
You're asking about what we think if the game does continue so that's kind of the context I'm answering in lol.In post 508, Andante wrote:lol well, the correct answer was "if you're town don't self hammer" glad yall want my help around here, like you 2 voting me, you seem to know game continues after my lim.. like, heloooo I'm here... and town!!!3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Coasting ? I tried interacting with you on why this read makes no sense if you are town but you only responded to the auto correct in that post.In post 521, Andante wrote:
LMAOOOO Umlaut is probably town, no way maf says this to me here. Maf would be more like Sleepless, and just coasting cause maf knows I for sure die here. I’m also quite sure Roadkill town, so it’s literally between Sleepless and joqiza, and I think I SR sleepless over joqizaIn post 520, Umlaut wrote:Can we just euthanize this poor wolf already. Look at her, she's suffering.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Hmm. That's who I was probably going to vote.
I'll be honest, I thought Roadkill was going to die.
I'm heading to bed but I'll have to look over both of your gameplay.
I know I was townreading Roadkill because if he's scum he hardbussed in a way I'm not sure I'd expect.
Joqiza I really would have expected to hammer me over Dwelee as scum.
So this isn't gonna be easy. But other than the Super Bowl tomorrow, I have most of the next 10 days free so I'll do everything I need to do to figure this out.
If either of you is considering that it could be me, my best defense is that I latched on to Dwelee right from the beginning and was their counterwagon the day they were eliminated. I know that if joqiza is town, that probably doesn't say a ton to you because Roadkill wad latched on to Dwelee as well so from your point of view Dwelee was definitely bussed.
I'll have to think about who is more likely to kill Umlaut too. Just from pure memory I think Joqiza could have thought Umlaut was coming after him but I'll have to go see if that's true or not. And Roadkill as scum probably sees Umlaut as the towniest player so it's possible it makes sense from both.
This is gonna be a hard one.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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I actually didn't realize until now that I had it wrong.In post 536, joqiza wrote:Sleepless, how come you call Dwlee 'Dwelee' ?
(I don't think this actually tells me anything, I'm just curious. You even use Dwelee when you're quoting them. Does their name actually display that way to you, or are you adding the extra 'e' yourself in your posts?)
But anyway the major thing I get from reading your posts is something that lingered in my mind already. Roadkill still being alive seems to be weird to you as well, not just to me. The simple answer is Roadkill is just playing a great scum game and obviously can't be the NK. But there's also the chance he was left alive just to create this argument. I dunno, he was my sure town read going into night and while I do read you (joqiza) as someone who thinks things through, I still think you're more likely to stick to a predictable script if that makes sense. And if Roadkill is town, not being killed was clearly a big WIFOM plan that I wouldn't expect. Do you think you could link me to a scum PT from a game where you played well as scum? I want something that shows how you really think when the time comes to make a big late game NK.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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If I'd called the scum team here wouldn't they have come after me harder than they did, especially when I was wagoned? Or maybe even used a NK on me? That's one of the things bugging me about the possibility of Roadkill being scum. I know I've been damn good at early game reads lately, but this good and with no real pushback from scum? I don't know...In post 32, Dwlee99 wrote:
I don't like to bus in micros thoughIn post 22, Sleepless Assassin wrote:
Bus your buddy and vote Roadkill with me.In post 21, Dwlee99 wrote:UNVOTE:
I've seen lolhammer in RVS, typically from scum though, or in a meme game. I don't think it is scummy to question that line from Andante but I don't think that line is AI from her either.
I like Umlaut for town right now so I'll join this
VOTE: mc Esther
[3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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For what it's worth this does make sense. I feel like even though it may be an overreaction, scum would panic just a bit at the team being named so early and that's one of the things that makes me hesitant to believe you could be scum. There was no panic. No push to eliminate me from the game or to sway me. It's possible from my point of view however that it's something that drove you to bus Dwlee. I could see trying to eliminate associatives for endgame. Again, this requires your game to have been near flawless though. And usually if that's the case, the odds of anyone being hot on your trail about it are low. So I feel stuck. Like I've said before, my main hesitation on Joqiza is that he had a chance to hammer me over Dwlee. He chose to hammer Dwlee. I believe it was Andante who said he'd do that for town cred. And the irony isn't lost on me that I'm townreading him for it, but typically speaking I think the town cred from Dwlees flip is more likely to go to people who were pushing that way all along. Joqiza waited, considered all options, and decided last. It looks more legitimately town to me than like scum trying to look town. That's what makes this hard is I'm trying to find out who I'm wrong on . You both look town but obviously aren't. So it's like I need to try to argue against my own reasoning. That's why I'm picking apart your reaction to my whole "Dwlee/Roadkill scum gg" thing early on. I did town read it at the time. But the reason I think I'm leaning you as scum is because it's easier for me to believe that you brushed it aside to not appear to panic than it is that Joqiza chose to hammer his buddy over town. I'm far from decided though and absolutely see the side that town-you just didn't take me seriously being so early in the game.Roadkill wrote: the early accusations did not mean a lot to me because they were early and i know reads can change and when you are with low information a net can be thrown and not always hit the right things, and also i did something attention grabbing that was... decisive. so it did not mean a lot to me and there was never a... moment where something clicked as in “i need to follow this trail” like i did when dwlee wanted to kill three (because even then i think i would have probably just sighed at that one post they made and not really went after it until we said the same thing and i went oh no) so it was just... a thing, your early accusation, that’s a shrug on the mind
I try to be nice to everyone. I'm mainly just trying to lay put my thoughts and see if they make sense. As much as I want to work with whichever of you is town and come to the right conclusion, it's in my mind that whoever is scum has played a great game so I fully expect they'd be in my ear with "yes you make perfect sense, keep it up" hoping I feel confident and lay my vote. So part of me also feels alone and unable to trust anyone if that makes sense. So if I'm coming off cold, I apologize. It's the nature of the game.Roadkill wrote: that sleepless feels... a little... predetermined in how he’s talking as if to frame me a bit as the great scum potentially and then a little more kindness to joqiza (but also joqiza was here /to/ speak first and we are usually nicer to the people around us presently)
I'm almost positive I'd have killed you because I wouldn't see anyone eliminating you and I think Umlaut vs Joqiza would be an easy 1v1 to set up.Roadkill wrote: also i cannot offer any examples of my play and i am sorry for that but i think here if i were mafia i would kill joqiza as the loudest, most consistent voice in the room and also...3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Oh I remember what I was looking at when I fell asleep last night. When I started pushing Dwlee, Joqiza started talking about "bad" and "Alice and Bob" comparisons. The one thing that stood out as a point possibly against Joqiza was the weird comment about Andante and Dwlee not seeming like scum together. It was like he was either setting up the post-Dwlee flip game already or maybe more likely trying to win over people who suspected Andante and convince them Dwlee is town for not being paired with Andante. This is the post I mean:
The fact that Joqiza ends up voting both Andante and Dwlee kind of fits with that being his intention. However, like everything else in this game, there's a town mold that it fits too which is not playing for associatives before a scum flip, simply noting them for later. The fact that he still ended up voting Andante, on surface level, seems to contradict the town world. However, a lot of info exists between Page 5 and Day 3 and a lot of that vote seemed to be PoE anyway. And again, the decision came late in the form of a hammer. So there's still nothing damning here but that is another thing on my mind that I'm trying to work through.In post 76, joqiza wrote:The real and sad tea is that Dwlee probably doesn't make that post if he's partnered with Andante. Which is devastating because I thought everyone else who talked besides those two has been at least a little bit towny and I was starting to get hopeful.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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A thought that crossed my mind was maybe Joqiza as scum would think Roadkill would vote me. But I think Umlaut would have been more likely than Roadkill and Joqiza didn't come out going hard after me so I don't think that's right. If Joqiza is scum, I'm gonna be curious post game why the Umlaut kill over Roadkill because I just can't figure that out. That combined with the Dwlee hammer is probably why I'm having trouble seeing Joqiza as scum despite my gut telling me Roadkill has appeared townier. At the time, Joqiza felt towniest Day 1 but I've been looking back and it feels like Roadkill was townier now. The fact that we have 8 days is gonna make me seriously ovethink this.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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In post 134, Roadkill wrote:reading through the past page or two with the isoing and back and forthing is a bit much for me right now, would rather do when i am all comfy.