Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
- {Top Tier}
- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her
{Arko}
{Aisa}
{Oclaxian Empire, Vanderscamp}
{KawaiiKame}
VOTE: KawaiiKame
(Obligatory "it's page one" disclaimer.)AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
- {Top Tier}
- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her
{Arko}
{Aisa}
{Bellaphant}
{Oclaxian Empire, Vanderscamp, AurorusVox}
{KawaiiKame}
End p1.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
- {Top Tier}
- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her
{Arko}
{Aisa}
{Bellaphant, Vanderscamp, AurorusVox}
{Oclaxian Empire}
{KawaiiKame}
{BloodB0t}
VOTE: BloodB0t
p2.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Posts: 8374
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I understand the callout.In post 50, Bellaphant wrote:^ is town.
I disagree.
{Arko}
{Aisa}
{Bellaphant, Vanderscamp, AurorusVox}
{KawaiiKame}
{Oclaxian Empire}
{BloodB0t}
(I actually think they're partners, distancing.)AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her
Blood feels forced and overblown, trying too hard but producing too little in terms of genuine thought. The Oclaxian interaction does look like theater to me, but if I had to pick a scum in the duo (rather than both being scum as I suspect) it'd actually be Blood.In post 84, Aisa wrote:Idk my read on Blood overall though.
Oclaxian's interactions look forced and fake, with the interaction with Blood in particular reeking of scum theater. However, I see at leastflashesof towniness, where itcouldjust be town being aggressive, because I seepotentialgenuine thought. Still, it requires straining my eyes to see, so I believe scum's far more likely.
{Arko, Aisa} are my only confident townreads; {BloodB0t, Oclaxian Empire} are my only confident scumreads. Fortunately, per the game mechanics, this should suffice, as we need not have every slot sorted correctly, justenoughof the slots correctly. Slots who aim to avoid us doing so should expose themselves with time.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
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Game mechanics. Something "mundane and stupid" as you put it makes for perfect theatricality, in a game where theater is disproportionately useful for scum.In post 87, Oclaxian Empire wrote:heres the real question ranger - why bother with theater over something so utterly mundane and stupid
Not the post which gave me that read; for me, it was 74. Still, you seeing the same thing I did there (OE and Arko not scum together) is +town.In post 89, Vanderscamp wrote:Strong read that OE and Arko are not scum together, I don't think you say "I don't think you'll die from my vote" if your plan is to bus.
{Arko}
{Aisa, Vanderscamp}
{Bellaphant, AurorusVox}
{KawaiiKame}
{Oclaxian Empire}
{BloodB0t}AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Depends on the system tbh. Lotsa plurality systems like ours discovered pluralityIn post 112, AurorusVox wrote:Oh wow, sorry I had no idea!! Sorry if saying hydra was offensive <3aftermafia so view plurality at least partially through the lens of being essentially a permanent hydra. Ask every time is best policy.
Not at all, I just feel it's not Arko.In post 115, Bellaphant wrote:Is it crazy to say I think a scum voted ox?
{Arko}
{Aisa, Vanderscamp}
{Bellaphant}
{AurorusVox}
{KawaiiKame}
{Oclaxian Empire}
{BloodB0t}AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Well for a start you're not scum with Arko so if you're scum, Arko's not.In post 121, Oclaxian Empire wrote:why do u not think arko?
But even if you're town, Arko's the towniest slot in the game to me rn. I vibe hard with Arko.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
- {Top Tier}
- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her
Each system is different. Some can have as few as two, some can have a few, some can have a dozen, some can have two dozen, and some can have hundreds, maybe even thousands. (We have hundreds.)In post 132, Oclaxian Empire wrote:Or Ranger can if she comes around before we finish CS
The type also differs. Some have completely full divides between each person, with the people fully developed. Others have the people fully developed, but some linked to others. Others more have people not fully developed, where they still are loosely part of the whole of a person but are still distinct enough to not identify as one singular entity, and yet do identify as one single entity. It really depends. Every system is different.
The main thing about systems is, essentially, having more than one internal voice. Singlets (so-called for having a single voice) have only one voice. One mind, one thought. Neurodivergencies can cause them to have multiple strains of thoughts, but they retain one consistent internal voice at all times.
Plurality is anyone not a singlet. It means more than one internal voice, at its simplest level. These voices can still identify as one, or they can identify as individuals, or anywhere in-between. But they exist, and have various levels of distinction. Feelings, memories, personalities, appearances. Each think differently, each speak differently. They are all unique. Some systems identify as a single person, others don't; some identify as somewhere in-between. Every system is unique, so it's best to be respectful and do your best to address them properly.
In a mafia context, usernames are usually a safe bet. But you can address specific alters/facets if they have signed, usually. Just respect you might not get them directly answering since whoever is fronting, is fronting. Some systems can't willingly bring a person forward.
I'm not the best at describing this though. For us, 'Ranger' works just fine.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Bad approach tbh. My reads are fluid. Write a case on what makes Arko scum and I'll listen. You can convince me. I simply haven't been, because Arko's content is by far the towniest in the game imo.In post 159, Aisa wrote:My read on Ranger is contingent on what Arko is at the moment, I think.
This is a very interesting way of wording it.In post 162, Oclaxian Empire wrote:"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"
It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149.
I believe Arko-OE have interactions strongly indicating they're not scum-scum. Scum-town's possible. Town-scum's possible. Town-town's possible. Never scum-scum.
Separately, Arko is my strongest townread rn.
Separately, Oclaxian Empire's content has overall been suspect, enough to be a main scum candidate.
Arko isn't town because of OE being scum. The three points had no connection. Stating they did connect is somewhat disingenuous.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
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The exact opposite was mine. I came out of that convo with more town on Arko and nothing more on Ox.In post 170, Bellaphant wrote: the convo with Ox again didn't vibe right: I ended up tr-ing the ox slot ans not feeling anything more about arko, which tends to be one of my red flags for scum: they end up feeling 'grey'.
74 is not a scum theater post. The "I'm done with you" is a genuine interaction. OE can be scum, OE can be town, but regardless OE isn't scum with Arko thanks to it.In post 173, BloodB0t wrote:Why is OE not scum with Arko? Anything more to your TR on Arko? He's been your top TR even before the the interaction with OE. So I guess that was just vibes?
Your interactions with OE were notably different than Arko's, mutually so. The treatment of Arko felt organic. The treatment with you felt artificial and forced.
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,
I loved this thought process.In post 26, Arko wrote:Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.
I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.
There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
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I made no reference to activity in my townread. Where are you getting the idea my townread on Arko has anything to do with activity? Certainly not from anything I've said!In post 178, Oclaxian Empire wrote:once again tho - activity this early in the game is meaningless. that’s the entire point. it was what, two pages in the game?
My argument is off of the content within and believing the content is town. The thought process was the important part. The solving was the important part. Not the activity. The divide might seem a bit arbitrary, but I felt the divide came from a town mindset of trying to figure out where scum were. For a post that early, it's as town as town players can get.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- {Top Tier}
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Oh? How interesting you use this as an argument against me!In post 178, Oclaxian Empire wrote: i think either ur a partner with arko, or scum trying to pocket arko.
You seemed quite opposed to this argument whenIn post 162, Oclaxian Empire wrote:"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"was the one you thought was making it against*I*you.
You are saying I'm scum regardless of Arko's alignment (partner with Arko = I'm scum, scum trying to pocket Arko = I'm scum),
In the exact same way youobjectedto me saying Arko was town regardless of yours. ("Arko isn't scum with Oclaxian, Arko isn't scum when Oclaxian is town".)
Care to explain the discrepancy?AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Wording's important.In post 179, Oclaxian Empire wrote:
this does not say ur town. this says ur scum bc you know what my alignment is.In post 176, Ranger wrote:It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149
You didn't say "Rangerknowsour alignment and hasdecidedto not reevaluate".
You said,
"RangerIn post 163, Oclaxian Empire wrote:it just makes me feel like ranger has very deterministically decided what alignment we are, and what arko is, and not gonna re-evaluate.decidedour alignment, andis notgoing to reevaluate".
The difference between these is the difference between calling me scum and calling me town.
The former would have been calling me scum. If you stated you thought I KNEW your alignment, you'd be stating by implication I'm scum.
The latter is what you did, and is calling me town. You stated I DECIDED your alignment.
Scum don't decide the alignment of other players. (Town do.)
Scum know the alignment of other players.
Your reference to medecidingrather thanknowingyour alignment.
It's not semantics--it's a scumslip.
VOTE: Oclaxian Empire.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Happy scumday but perhaps try reading.In post 181, AurorusVox wrote:Ranger like wtf why do you townread this?
I've stated why I feel Arko isn't scum with Oclaxian Empire.
I've stated Oclaxian Empire is one of my stronger scumreads. (Admittedly, I need to explain this scumread.)
I've stated my reasons for townreading Arko.
I've also stated I don't see any reason for scumreading Arko. The reasons I've seen have all seemed trash.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
- {Top Tier}
- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her
{Arko}
{Aisa, Vanderscamp}
{Bellaphant}
{AurorusVox}
{KawaiiKame}
{BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}
I still vibe with this, but 184 + 185(backed by 176) are huge.
I believe Oclaxian Empire demonstrated a lack of internal consistency in their thoughts. This ismaybeexplainable depending on the individuals who did the posts and their internal communication system. If they weren't talking to each other and if it was two different people in the system posting, it could come from town. So I'm not saying that alone makes a smoking gun.
The scumslip does though. It was possible Oclaxian Empire was simply stating "Yes, I think you're town, who determined my alignment and won't reevaluate".Was, but with Oclaxian Empire having denied this as what they meant, and insisting it meant the opposite, meant any benefit of the doubt was removed.
Oclaxian Empire didn't say Iknewtheir alignment, accusing me of being scum.
Oclaxian Empire said Ideterminedtheir alignment, which is a slip of the tongue revealing they know I am town.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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My readslists demonstrate evolution in thought.In post 196, Vanderscamp wrote:I don't believe that you have individual townreads on all of those Arko posts.
I clearly had reason to believe Arko was town, or else Arko wouldn't have been at the top.
You have a misunderstanding of my brain neurology then.In post 199, Vanderscamp wrote:I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.
Which was I asked about first?
I was asked about the interactions with Oclixian Empire first, so I answered that first.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Receipts:In post 200, Ranger wrote:
My readslists demonstrate evolution in thought.In post 196, Vanderscamp wrote:I don't believe that you have individual townreads on all of those Arko posts.
I clearly had reason to believe Arko was town, or else Arko wouldn't have been at the top.
You have a misunderstanding of my brain neurology then.In post 199, Vanderscamp wrote:I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.
Which was I asked about first?
I was asked about the interactions with Oclixian Empire first, so I answered that first.
121 was the first time I was asked about the interaction. (The context behind it was the votes on Oclixian Empire; those votes included Arko.)
I stated Arko was the towniest slot in the game off of their content (not interactions,content) in 176. Wording is important; if Arko's interactions were the basis of that read I would have specified. (The post literally said I thought Arko's content was townseparately frominteractions.)
The next time was 170. Ox-Arko interactions, not Arko content.
THEN 173. Oc-Arko interactions, PLUS Arko content. Which is how I responded.
I answer things by and large in their chronological order.
I was asked about the interaction before I was asked to explain the read.
So I explained the interaction before I explained the read.
Both were quite apparent from the start. I was rather unambiguous.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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That would not surprise me. Given I'm the one who wrote my posts tho, I trust my view on them more than yours.In post 204, Vanderscamp wrote:Maybe we're talking about different posts?
That was a question about the associative, not a question about Arko being town.In post 202, Vanderscamp wrote:This isn't true, though, right after you made your post that Ox was asking about, they questioned you about Arko being town, not the associative read.
I was asked why I didn't think Arko's vote on Oclaxian Empire was scum.
That wasn't a question about Arko's alignment.
That was a question about Arko's association with Oclaxian Empire.
The context was "Oclaxian Empire voters contain scum".
I specified 'maybe so, but not Arko'.
I was asked why not Arko.
I wasn't asked why Arko was town, or why Arko wasn't scum.
I was specifically asked why Arko wasn't scum voting Oclaxian Empire.
I answered the question given.
Again--if you think differently, you don't understand my brain neurology.
My default is readslists without commentary.In post 203, Vanderscamp wrote:I have no idea why you wouldn't have put that in the big ranking post you made that Ox was responding to.
I add commentary when I think it pertinent, for things worth commenting on.
19/80/81 contain zero commentary.
82 contains one comment, disagreeing with the BloodB0t town callout.
86 is my first substantive post.
Then 119.
And then in 120 it was back to one comment, specifying I believe Arko wasn't scum on Oclaxian Empire. (A read previously talked about per 119.)
And more commentary in 149.
I comment on things worth responding to, as they pop up. I'm not inclined to react to nonexistent content.
Nobody asked me to explain my Arko townread until later. I explained it as soon as it was requested.
People did ask me to explain my "Arko is not scum with Oclaxian Empire" take. I explained each time it was asked.
If you take umbrage with my minimalism, there's a simple fix; ask and engage me. The fault doesn't lie with me for not inquiring into my posts.
Yes?In post 205, Vanderscamp wrote:But you aren't going into any detail about your reasoning, you're just calling all of his individual posts towny with different wording.
That's still evolution in read. It's taking new information in. The new information might be reworded of prior info, which results in...
...Arko being my top townread,
Changing to being my top townread,
Changing to being my top townread,
Changing to being my top townread.
+Town actions build off of each other. One town action builds off of previous town actions.
Arko's posting has been +town throughout the game.
I also did explain my Arko read beyond using vibes though. Solving in 26 was actually +town specifically by dividing the scum up into "one not posted, two which have". That gives tangible analysis and the beginning of sorting.
It specifies 2 scum in {Arko, KawaiiKame, Oclaxian Empire, Vanderscamp, Aisa, AurorusVox, Ranger, Bellaphant} and 1 scum in...
{BloodB0t}.
I believe that being the last post before going to bed shows an insanely +town mindset, and given followthrough, would allow for further analysis and breakdown of those within, which Arko had already done on page one.
Sure, but that'd make you a liar because those things wouldn't apply to their posts.In post 205, Vanderscamp wrote:Like, I could take your explanations for your reads, choose a random player, and say the same thing about all of their posts and it could apply to them too.
You seem to have a very different view of my posts than reality.In post 205, Vanderscamp wrote:What I don't believe is that you think every single one of those posts you quoted is individually towny, I don't think Arko's posts deserve that, and the reasoning you did give wasn't very compelling.
it just feels way too strong to be real.
I've repeatedly stated I'll listen to cases of Arko being scum.
None have responded to my offer.
It's not that Arko is strongly town.
I have Arko as town, but my reads are fluent enough I could be convinced otherwise.
It's that I think thescumreadsare too strong to be real, because nobody has brought forth compelling arguments on Arko.
The burden of proof is on the accuser--not the accused.
The default is a slot (including Arko) being town, and Arko's posts support that to me.
When I feel Arko's posts are towny enough, and the default is town, then it is up to the accusers to convince me otherwise.
Nobody has even tried.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Speaking of, I've undertaken that burden and made my accusation.In post 214, Ranger wrote:The burden of proof is on the accuser--not the accused.
Spoiler: my caseIn post 198, Vanderscamp wrote:StopVanderscamp:Why have you not addressed my case?
You've attacked my defense of Arko.
You've been silent about my case on Oclaxian Empire.
In post 213, Aisa wrote:Or maybe it's just my disarming charisma, that happens tooAisa:You've started your more serious reading.
Would you care to comment on my case?
In post 209, AurorusVox wrote:Ranger - what do you make of arko apparently freaking out over e-2 being too soon, when they themselves thought they’d put ox at e-2 earlier in the thread?AurorusVox:Counter-question; what do you make of Oclaxian Empire stating I had 'decided' my reads and 'would not reevaluate' (implying I'm town), rather than 'know and decide not to reevaluate'?
What do you make of Oclaxian Empire's hypocrisy in stating I'm scum regardless of Arko's alignment, when having criticized me for saying Arko was town regardless of Oclaxian Empire's alignment?AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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I don't see any freak-out. 45 is no freak-out. It is responding to the e-2. It is not a freakout. It is commenting on it. Commentary does not a freakout make. Tone-wise I would actually say it's theIn post 209, AurorusVox wrote:Ranger - what do you make of arko apparently freaking out over e-2 being too soon, when they themselves thought they’d put ox at e-2 earlier in the thread?oppositeof a freakout. It's inquiring into Oclaxian Empire's vote in a way I feel was quite town.
It is no sin to have suspicion on a slot after that slot votes you. The handling was the important part.
I don't see hypocrisy in voting Oclaxian Empire up to e-2 when Arko has valid reasons to suspect the slot.
Arko wasn't concerned about being at e-2. Arko was inquiring into Oclaxian Empire's e-2 vote. After the inquiry, Arko came to the conclusion Oclaxian Empire was likely scum in part for the e-2 vote. Arko put Oclaxian Empire to e-2.
There's nothing suspect in that chain of events. It's my opinion it's quite the opposite. I believe that chain of events and that process indicates Arko had a town mindset, approaching from a position of being uninformed and forming an opinion based off the information being generated in-thread.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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Perhaps reading my posts would reveal the answer to beyond vibes.In post 217, BloodB0t wrote: The first thing you mentioned about your Arko read, you said it was from vibes, and Arko has always remained your top town read. Was there anything beyond "vibes" that made you initially have him as your top town read?
But let me ask you this.
This game has nine pages.
This game has been going on for four real life days.
Whywouldn't'vibes' be enough to top the townread charts?
It's earlygame.
Reads are going to be weak early.
Vibes are the strongest reason possible to have early.
Then you've not been reading my posts in good faith. I've given plenty of proof. 119, "Arko isn't scum with Oclaxian Empire because OE's 74 means they're never scum with Arko".In post 217, BloodB0t wrote:The burden of proof is on the person making a claim, we think you're claiming that Arko is town without giving enough proof.
149, vibing hard.
176, I stated I could be convinced about Arko.
177, I specified I felt the Arko-OE back and forth looked good for Arko, increasing my townread there.
That same post additionally contains me laying out why I have that townread.
183, I lay out how I feel Arko's thought process indicates a town alignment.
186, I reiterate these reasons.
201 serves as another post reiterating the reasons.
214 contains further elaboration on my Arko townread.
While not stating the read per se, 200 lays out the process of developing my reads.
I've laid out my reasons for believing Arko is town.
I've seen none for Arko being scum, despite repeatedly asking.
The Arko discussion is also largely a distraction.
I don't see people asking about my other reads, for instance.
My townread on Arko is not unique.
The only unique thing about my Arko read is I was asked about it, so after being asked, I explained.
I've also seen people repeatedly dodge my case on Oclaxian Empire. None of the slots to have posted since I gave it have commented on it. (This includes you.)
I feel it is also very telling slots who were previously suspect of each other (BloodB0t literally called Oclaxian Empire scum and wrote a case on them, Vanderscamp literallyagreed with my conclusionin 89 of OE not being scum with Arko, and they have all banded together onto me, clinging to the same argument.
I've explained how I formed my read, and the strength of it. No, my read is not strong. None of my reads are. Arko is mystrongesttownread; Arko is not astrongtownread. My townread is explicitly based off of vibing with Arko's tone and mindset, with me believing those are indicative of Arko being town.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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I want to reiterate these two points.In post 228, Ranger wrote:I've seen none for Arko being scum, despite repeatedly asking.
The Arko discussion is also largely a distraction.
I don't see people asking about my other reads, for instance.
My townread on Arko is not unique.
The only unique thing about my Arko read is I was asked about it, so after being asked, I explained.
The amount of explanation I've given to my townread on Arko is not unique to Arko. I could give that same level of explanation and breakdown to any of my reads. Nobody has.
People criticize my townread for being 'too strong' on Arko, but their scumreads on Arko are too strong.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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Spoiler: my caseIn post 223, BloodB0t wrote:Yeah Vander seems pretty towny.BloodB0t:Why have you not commented on my Oclaxian Empire read and case?AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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In post 227, Arko wrote:I'm honestly hating trying to find who the scum areSpoiler: my caseArko:Have you read my case? If not, then please do and give thoughts on Oclaxian Empire.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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The difference between the thoughts are a difference behind the circumstances. Arko didn't have an issue with a slot being at e-2. Arko had an issue with Oclaxian Empire casting an e-2 vote on them, and inquired on it. Reading the situation in context makes it clear the two aren't comparable.In post 239, AurorusVox wrote:@ranger/arko that’s not the part I was bothered about. It was the difference between the thoughts on ox being at e-2 in these posts (you didn’t put ox at e-2 but you thought you had):
That was the purpose behind my 176. I was trying to figure out what Oclaxian Empire meant by the statement.In post 239, AurorusVox wrote:@ranger yeah the “decide”/“know” thing could be a slip but could it not also be in the context of “you’ve decided … to present ox as a scumread / arko as a townread … as scum”?
The entire thing about a scumslip is it being aslip. Not intended. Oclaxian Empire backtracked on their wording, after I pointed out the issue with the post. That indicates the slip was real.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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In post 240, Vanderscamp wrote:I think you're the towniest player in the game so far.Vanderscamp:You continue to not address these.In post 176, Ranger wrote:
This is a very interesting way of wording it.In post 162, Oclaxian Empire wrote:"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"
It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149.
I believe Arko-OE have interactions strongly indicating they're not scum-scum. Scum-town's possible. Town-scum's possible. Town-town's possible. Never scum-scum.
Separately, Arko is my strongest townread rn.
Separately, Oclaxian Empire's content has overall been suspect, enough to be a main scum candidate.
Arko isn't town because of OE being scum. The three points had no connection. Stating they did connect is somewhat disingenuous.In post 184, Ranger wrote:
Oh? How interesting you use this as an argument against me!In post 178, Oclaxian Empire wrote: i think either ur a partner with arko, or scum trying to pocket arko.
You seemed quite opposed to this argument whenIn post 162, Oclaxian Empire wrote:"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"was the one you thought was making it against*I*you.
You are saying I'm scum regardless of Arko's alignment (partner with Arko = I'm scum, scum trying to pocket Arko = I'm scum),
In the exact same way youobjectedto me saying Arko was town regardless of yours. ("Arko isn't scum with Oclaxian, Arko isn't scum when Oclaxian is town".)
Care to explain the discrepancy?In post 185, Ranger wrote:
Wording's important.In post 179, Oclaxian Empire wrote:
this does not say ur town. this says ur scum bc you know what my alignment is.In post 176, Ranger wrote:It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149
You didn't say "Rangerknowsour alignment and hasdecidedto not reevaluate".
You said,
"RangerIn post 163, Oclaxian Empire wrote:it just makes me feel like ranger has very deterministically decided what alignment we are, and what arko is, and not gonna re-evaluate.decidedour alignment, andis notgoing to reevaluate".
The difference between these is the difference between calling me scum and calling me town.
The former would have been calling me scum. If you stated you thought I KNEW your alignment, you'd be stating by implication I'm scum.
The latter is what you did, and is calling me town. You stated I DECIDED your alignment.
Scum don't decide the alignment of other players. (Town do.)
Scum know the alignment of other players.
Your reference to medecidingrather thanknowingyour alignment.
It's not semantics--it's a scumslip.
VOTE: Oclaxian Empire.
You've also not addressed 214.In post 190, Ranger wrote:184 + 185(backed by 176) are huge.
I believe Oclaxian Empire demonstrated a lack of internal consistency in their thoughts. This ismaybeexplainable depending on the individuals who did the posts and their internal communication system. If they weren't talking to each other and if it was two different people in the system posting, it could come from town. So I'm not saying that alone makes a smoking gun.
The scumslip does though. It was possible Oclaxian Empire was simply stating "Yes, I think you're town, who determined my alignment and won't reevaluate".Was, but with Oclaxian Empire having denied this as what they meant, and insisting it meant the opposite, meant any benefit of the doubt was removed.
Oclaxian Empire didn't say Iknewtheir alignment, accusing me of being scum.
Oclaxian Empire said Ideterminedtheir alignment, which is a slip of the tongue revealing they know I am town.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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Vibes were indeed my initial reason for the townread on Arko and remain among the stronger reasons.In post 243, BloodB0t wrote:@ranger Fwiw, I wouldn't mind if "vibes" was the only reason to townread Arko. My question was just open-ended and not meant to imply guilt for having a read only based on vibes, I just wondered if that was the only reason for the initial read. I don't like the reaction to that question though.
Arko's interactions with Oclaxian Empire (and vice-versa) demonstrate the two are never scum together and I believe Oclaxian Empire is scum which by proxy would be reason for Arko to be town.
Even without that, Arko's handling of OE felt +town regardless of Ox's alignment.
Arko's content has seemed +town in a solvey way that stacks over time.
Most posts give good vibes. Not every post, but enough.
Good vibes stacked on good vibes strengthen the read because each post I vibe with, adds to the existing good vibes.
The lack of a real scum case despite players scumreading the slot is also a red flag.
Are any of these slam-dunk?
Well no.
Which is why I've asked for the reasons Arko wouldn't be town--and have been met with radio silence by and large.
And what issues do you take with those takes specifically?In post 243, BloodB0t wrote:I just don't like Ranger's posts about you or Ox.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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I'm afraid I don't follow.In post 245, AurorusVox wrote:All the things I quoted are about the e-2 on ox
Arko was put to e-2 by Oclaxian Empire.
Arko inquired Ox on that vote in a way demonstrating no alarm at e-2, but rather curiosity as to why OE would cast the e-2 vote.
Arko thought Oc's answers weren't great.
Arko thought they casted an e-2 vote, but in the process explained why they were okay with having cast that vote.
I don't see how you see anything suspect in that process. It has no inconsistencies. It has no contradictions. One action directly followed into another. I don't understand what your point is.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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I already did. I deliberately didn't reiterate because I had told you to read my posts in good faith, because had you, you'd have seen where I had.In post 247, BloodB0t wrote:In post 217, BloodB0t wrote:Ranger wrote: ↑Today, 3:53 pm
I believe that being the last post before going to bed shows an insanely +town mindset
Can you elaborate on this?AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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Made a post about this, somehow got eaten.In post 237, Arko wrote:I'm starting to think BB/Ox might be 2 scum
This would be my read on them, yes.
I called BB/Ox's interactions theater.
Their current content suggests I was right.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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I see now.In post 252, AurorusVox wrote:If they had no issue with it earlier why did they have an issue with it later?
That I admit I would be going out of my way to defend Arko to answer.
But sure, in for a penny in for a pound, the people saying I'm defending Arko too hard right now aren't exactly going to stop their TMI accusations so why not?
I think the key factor is 55. Specifically,
Let OE breathe before voting them.In post 55, Arko wrote:let them breath for some time before voting them.
Between 55 and 118 was 95, and I can see Arko as town seeing that, knowing BloodB0t wanted to vote, and thinking this is a danger to ending the day too soon.
I admit that is a stretch. I had to strain my eyes to see it. To be honest I don'treallybelieve it. I'm just being spiteful and doubling down on the defense.
Being more honest, that does demote Arko.
Spite-readslist would be,
{Arko, AurorusVox}
{Aisa}
{Bellaphant}
{KawaiiKame}
{Vanderscamp}
{BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}
...But I can't bring myself to actually commit to the spite. It's just not my thing.
So actual readslist would probably be closer to,
{AurorusVox}
{Aisa, Bellaphant}
{Arko}
{KawaiiKame, Vanderscamp}
{BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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My posts are far from being walls of text. They alreadyIn post 254, BloodB0t wrote:Sorry, I'm bad with walls of text. Can you just sum it up quickly for my simple brain?aresummaries.
I'm disinclined to follow the request when the summation was already given, repeatedly.
Actually I was trying to sort Vanderscamp specifically to see if their scumread on me was made in good faith out of a mistaken read of my posts or if it was made in bad faith. (I was engaging in those posts specifically to try and get a better read on Vanderscamp specifically.)In post 254, BloodB0t wrote: I don't get the feeling of progression on them as I might from a townie trying to sort. Seems more like trying to justify previously made decisions than trying to sort.
I still haven't figured out which but at this point I give up on that idea.
On that note, it's frustrating how few players are engaging me. I genuinely feel Oclaxian Empire has a very high chance of being scum here and my reasons for the belief are strong.
I'm meant to be a reactive player--reacting to the content of others.
(I can't react to content which doesn't exist so what I react to is reflective of the available content. If someone else repeatedly revisits a subject and that's all I have to engage on, then I, too, will repeatedly revisit the subject in reacting to them.)
Not be proactive and force engagement.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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Nevermind on giving up. Vanderscamp's reply reignited the desire to sort. It'll be dampened by having revealed I engaged with intent to sort them but *shrug*.
Can be?In post 258, Vanderscamp wrote:Either you've only played with the worst scum in the world, or #26 is the kind of thing that can be replicated extremely easily as scum.
Yes, itcanbe replicated by scum.
Would be the approach scum actually took? On the second post of the second page? When going to bed?
That I don't think scum thinks to.
Anythingcanbe done by scum.
It's not a matter of whether it can be done.
It's whether scum willthink todo it.
I find 26 to be a post scum are incredibly unlikely to think of.
Well I do. Arko's posts vibed with me. Regardless of Arko's alignment I'd call those posts +town. It's the type of opener whichIn post 258, Vanderscamp wrote:I really just don't believe that all of these similarly generic posts from Arko are posts that you think are all towny.cancome from scum, but usually scum just...don't think to. So like...the vibes were good. None of them strongly so. But enough to warrant the townread.
And then you would need to back that up, through both your reads, your progression in reads, your reasons, and your mindset, and have the meta to back you up.In post 258, Vanderscamp wrote:I don't agree, I could point to any game related post of any player and say I like the sentiment or engagement of it, or say it's coming from a towny place, and it would be just as meaningful.
You have none of those; I have all of them.
Well I do believe those posts are towny, and as I am the one who wrote the posts, my belief is the one I think more important. :PIn post 258, Vanderscamp wrote:My main point is that I don't believe that you're reading all of the posts you quoted as towny, regardless of the strength of the read
You're stating you think I don't believe it.
I know I do because I do believe it.
Your continued statement of thinking I don't believe it won't change that I do, in fact, believe it.
It gives me pause on my Arko townread at the very least.In post 258, Vanderscamp wrote:i think the lemon's post that it's weird for Arko to put someone at E-2, and then a day later say that we shouldn't be putting people at E-2, is a compelling case and possibly more alignment indicative than any of the posts you've quoted about Arko.
Thoughts on that?
It's not enough to reverse my townread.
It's enough to throw it into question.
I need time to process, honestly.
Give me a day to think it over and I'll have a better answer.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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Not everything.In post 263, Vanderscamp wrote:Wow, does everything Arko says give you the impression of coming from a town mindset?...
But most things, yes.
Arko's posts vibed as town.
I thought I saw a town thought process there.
I thought Arko wasn't scum with Oclaxian Empire and Oclaxian Empire is scum.
I thought Arko's interactions with Oclaxian Empire were town regardless of OE's alignment.
Arko has a lot going for them that's +town.
But AurorusVox did raise a good point.
If Isquint, I canforcean answer to that.
Being intellectually honest with myself though and not forcing it, I've got nothin' there.
I need about 24 hours or so to mull it over. Step away from the computer, think about it offline.
To be honest, maybe same with Oclaxian Empire.
People have raised their doubts there; I need to think about it overnight to figure out if their doubts are valid or if my case still holds.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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The scumcase.In post 266, Aisa wrote:
Ranger, was it your Arko towncase or your OE scumcase that you wanted me to comment on?In post 215, Ranger wrote:In post 213, Aisa wrote:Or maybe it's just my disarming charisma, that happens tooAisa:You've started your more serious reading.
Would you care to comment on my case?AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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Hypocrite.In post 270, Vanderscamp wrote:Pretty null. Vaguely towny in toneAKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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The timing makes it +town--so yes.In post 271, BloodB0t wrote:Are you indeed saying that thefactthe post was thelast one made before bedmakes it +town for you?
You can't tell me posts you make at the end of a day are identical to posts you make near the beginning.In post 271, BloodB0t wrote:Does this assertion make any kind of sense I might be missing?
There's multiple contributing factors on later posts.
Later posts are when someone is already tired.
Later posts are when someone is already exhausted.
Later posts come after burnout--both from the wear and tear of the day, and the wear and tear of a stressful mafia game.
Mental exhaustion builds up. The brain begins to shut down, from having overexerted itself. (My mind begins to melt whenever I spend longer than 15-30 mins on mafia.)
As scum this makes it easier to mess up.
As town this has a natural tendency to lead to something resembling drunkposting: less coherent, more stream of thought, more unfiltered and often containing things the player would not think to post earlier.
That's a near-universal experience for mafia players. Everyone who's played enough games knows the experience.
Scum players can mimic the town reaction, if in their mental exhaustion they think to.
Town do it without thinking. That's why it's +town. The timing and the content increase the odds it was town. Itcouldbe scum. Tone-wise it vibed as town to me.
It was both.In post 271, BloodB0t wrote:@Ranger: Or were you just referring to the content of the last post being +town for you?AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
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I agree it needs time.In post 273, Aisa wrote:We'll see.
I need to step away from the keyboard to give my brain time to recover, cool down, process, and consider things from the distance, and reflect. After that I'll have formed a better opinion.
(Right now I'm apparently stupid tho. I literally logged off and was done. I came back because who knows, I apparently like overstraining my mind by not letting it rest. :shrug: )
It's quite easy to agree with someone who is saying all of the same things as you in the exact same way on the exact same players.In post 272, Vanderscamp wrote:I think blood is quite towny, I agree with all of what they're saying.
It's also a red flag.
That trait rarely has zero scum in the pairing.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Is this your issue???In post 278, Vanderscamp wrote:which seems more like assuming Arko is town and working backwards.
That I'm assuming Arko is town and working backwards???
I thought I made it clear.
Everyone is town by default.Yes, I assume Arko is town, because I assume everyone is town initially.
My readslists are fluent and everyone starts at null.
But while everyone starts with areadof null, I stillassumetown.
I'm not sure how to explain that if you don't get the conceptual difference between assuming town and reading town and knowing town. The three are all separate ideas.
{AurorusVox, Aisa}
{Bellaphant}
{Arko, Vanderscamp}
{KawaiiKame}
{BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
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I'm largely of the same mind.In post 279, Aisa wrote:I keep considering rescinding my townread on you for getting into silly arguments with Ranger, but every time I see a towny post you made which makes me want to not rescind the townread, it's quite something!
Vanderscamp's takes on me stretch credibility. I've been trying to sort them. I originally assumed wrong-town, then thought they might be scum, but now Vanderscamp's most recent posting has me back to thinking town.
It's one of the reasons I keep engaging with them. I keep on having my read on them be in flux, more than any slot in the game. I'd like to be able to lock them down (well, as much as locking down is possible given my readslists are always in flux; anything can trigger a change).
Positive from this is my townread has grown on you.
And actually thinking about it...
{Aisa}
{AurorusVox}
{Arko, Vanderscamp}
{Bellaphant}
{KawaiiKame, BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}
(I'm 50/50 on putting Vanderscamp on a tier between AurorusVox and Arko. Bellaphant demoted because lack of recent townness in my memory, may bump her back up after reviewing later.)
This is more accurate. BloodB0t's posts are better, but I still lean scum. Aisa vibes town harder than AurorusVox does.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Posts: 8374
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Well yes. Any action can be scum if they think to. It's just a matter of whether they will. I maintain Arko's posts are disproportionately +town, regardless of Arko's alignment--if Arko is scum it would be scum who made +town posts, but you'll never convince me the posts weren't +town.In post 284, BloodB0t wrote:282 Makes sense but I think you're exaggerating that it'sinsanelytownie, you even admit that it can be faked "if they think to".
Convince me the posts were +town that happened to be made by scum? That, that's quite possible. I'm considering it right now. (Well, will be as soon as I log off. I don't think I have the brain capacity to reassess without distancing myself. So I need a night of rest to relax and recharge my brain before I tackle it tomorrow.)AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Posts: 8374
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Eh, screw it. I had Vander town earlier, Vander has town posting, I'll give the tier separation.
{Aisa}
{AurorusVox}
{Vanderscamp}
{Arko, Bellaphant}
{KawaiiKame, BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}
(That said, Bella up with Arko because both need the same thing: overnight evaluation.)AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Pronoun: She/Her
Mod: 24 hour V/LA
Noted.
Will address 292/293, etc. tomorrow.
In the mean time tho;In post 298, Bellaphant wrote:I can't work out my read on aisa at all [...] I disliked their jumping in fully with ranger
Well there's your problem.In post 295, Bellaphant wrote:I am now skimming rangers posts;)
Aisareadmy posts;
Youskimmedmy posts;
The difference in your perspective is from that. Try reading my posts instead of skimming--not because of the content of my posts, but to understand where Aisa comes from. (That said, actually do read my posts because of their content. :P)
Rest of P12, and all of P13, tomorrow (I hope).AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Posts: 8374
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Still. You agree with my take (In post 292, Vanderscamp wrote:
Why?In post 281, Ranger wrote:
Hypocrite.In post 270, Vanderscamp wrote:Pretty null. Vaguely towny in tone
I don't think he's made a dozen posts that are towny in tone, if that's what you're referring to.vaguely,towny, intone) in strength and reason.
Yet attack me for having that same read.
If you compiled a list of towny-tone posts from him it'd be nearly identical to mine.
I repeat: hypocrite.In post 293, Vanderscamp wrote:The way you're talking about Arko is not coming from a perspective of assuming he's town by default.
You're pointing out multiple posts of Arko's that you think are actively towny, that I and others doubt are alignment indicative enough for you to be able to get the reads that you're claiming.
My read is no different than yours.
I formed it from reading the thread and coming to a conclusion.
Nothing more.
I've explained my stance and how I came to those conclusions.
I explained why it was not strong. (Explicitly, it's a mixture of vibes, gut, tone, and lean. Not the basis of a strong read.Strongesttownread, but notstrong.)
You're accusing me of doing something you're doing yourself.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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By the way, I did this for Arko. (Still need to for Oclaxian Empire.)In post 289, Ranger wrote:Convince me the posts were +town that happened to be made by scum? That, that's quite possible. I'm considering it right now. (Well, will be as soon as I log off. I don't think I have the brain capacity to reassess without distancing myself. So I need a night of rest to relax and recharge my brain before I tackle it tomorrow.)
I maintain their early posts were +town.
I've no explanation for the discrepancy AurorusVox pointed out in their takes. That's +scum.
When I did the thinking, I came to the conclusion town can make +scum actions I've no town explanation for, so the case isn't slam-dunk. It should be considered, but isn't a smoking gun in of itself.
Aspartof that consideration: Arko's more recent posting I feel quite negative about; they feel like +scum. 227 left a bad taste in my mouth.
233 looks like scum happy a town player (me) is defending them and going to take the fall for them (I'm a larger wagon than Arko).
237 is good, but is sheeping my takes, after I defended them.
315 felt +scum to me.
All in all, Arko's earlygame content was +town, and late content +scum, and while town can make inconsistent actions with no town explanation, it's still a warning to be respected. So my read on Arko has shifted.
{Aisa}
{Vanderscamp, AurorusVox}
{Bellaphant}
{Kowahbunga}
{BloodB0t, Arko}
{Oclaxian Empire}
Arko remains not scum with Oclaxian Empire in my opinion, but one of them is certainly scum imo.
Vanderscamp and AurorosVox both +town from this shift.
I should note; this reevaluation was forArko. I realize Arko's been replaced by Doctor Drew. I've not read any of Doctor Drew's posts yet, so I've not formed a read on him yet. He may yet bounce the slot back to town. About to tackle that.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Spent a full 30 minutes pacing back and forth pondering it. (30 minutes is actually a lot; I usually need only 5-10.) I realize that thought likely hasn't been translated with nuance, if people still want clarification despite the new slot holder I can see if I can explain it better.In post 322, AurorusVox wrote:Ranger I can’t tell if their “reevaluation” of arko is legit or fabricated to deflect heat from their own position.
I remain not fond of Kowahbunga's slot. Their contributions are lackluster and lack depth. This not only felt like theater, but also lacking critical thought. Kowahbunga didn't engageIn post 316, Kowahbunga wrote:Their read list they post on each post has me curious. What's your take on that?me, and is avoiding doing so.
Calling it 'hunting' is more generous than what I would say. :PIn post 318, Vanderscamp wrote:This just reeks of fake hunting.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Joined: October 7, 2015
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In post 340, Doctor Drew wrote:P4
So that's skipping pages 5, 6, and 7?In post 342, Doctor Drew wrote:Skipped a bit ahead. P8
6 I understand.
5 and 7 both start with plurality talk but transition into content later on.
My first reaction to skipping three pages was "this is suspect", but seeing the pages in question, I understand how someone would think it no big loss to skip them.
Bonus points; I've reignited my Oclaxian Empire scumread. I missed something before:
How likely do you think it that anIn post 102, Oclaxian Empire wrote:Yes it is, because we were an English major in college pre-COVID. That’s *what* English majors do: look at sentences and pick them apart.English majorwould have their wording be unclear? It implies they said exactly what they meant to say--and in doing so, revealed themselves scum.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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I'm liking Bella's posts.
This is a weird take. I'm not sure what alignment the weirdness is; gun to head, I'd say +scum.In post 342, Doctor Drew wrote:The Ox/Ranger spat seems.....petty? I dunno, hope it gets fleshed out a bit in the next few pages......legit pings me as scum v scum.
{Aisa}
{Vanderscamp, AurorusVox, Bellaphant}
{Kowahbunga, BloodB0t, Doctor Drew}
{Oclaxian Empire}
p14.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Posts: 8374
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- Pronoun: She/Her
Hate this post.In post 352, BloodB0t wrote:Bella's math derpiness seems genuine and towny to me, but I don't think Kowahbunga is +scum for SRing it. I didn't like 311 and 312 though.
I'm also feeling wary of Aisa but not sure if it's from the afterglow of chatgpt. Her vote on me certainly doesn't help. @Aisa can you say a little bit more about why you're SRing me?
Aisa's 355 is very good.
Weirdly, 364 is reading as gut-town. I don't know why.
{Aisa}
{Vanderscamp, AurorusVox, Bellaphant}
{Doctor Drew}
{Kowahbunga, BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}
p15.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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I'm comfortable locktowning Aisa right now.In post 381, Ranger wrote:{Aisa}
{Vanderscamp, AurorusVox, Bellaphant}
{Doctor Drew}
{Kowahbunga, BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}
Vanderscamp's posts I don't think are scum.
Bellaphant's posts are good.
AurorusVox might be slightly too high tbh, but is around this strength; I like his posts and points, but he's notastown as Vanderscamp/Bellapant rn imo.
Doctor Drew is null. Some good, some bad. Will continue sorting there.
I'm not liking either of Kowahbunga or Bloodb0t, but actually I think the Kowahbunga scumread is slightly stronger.
So, updated reads:
{Aisa}
{Vanderscamp, Bellaphant}
{AurorusVox}
{Doctor Drew}
{Bloodb0t}
{Kowahbunga}
{Oclaxian Empire}
I'll vote any of bottom 4 right now (although ideally not Doctor Drew; he'd be a compromise vote).AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Apparently.In post 383, Doctor Drew wrote:Ranger, did you miss this?
Don't think it changes anything though.
You're still null.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her
This is acceptable.In post 389, Aisa wrote:I think we'd all happily compromise on Kowahbunga if anyone so much as proposed the vote, and I think it would be a shame to elim someone who has just substituted in, but going easy on replace ins does not a game of mafia make, so
VOTE: Kowahbunga
Request however;
Can we commit toonewagon?
Oclaxian Empire is a wagon;
Kowahbunga is a wagon;
Both of those wagons are good;
Both have a high chance of being scum.
However, per game mechanics, neither will be the elimination if one of those wagons doesn't move onto the other.
I'll vote whichever of the two.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Posts: 8374
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Oh, nevermind; we've got that already.
As literally the only players not on the wagon already are voting me, I've no qualms with this;
VOTE: Kowahbunga
If people off my wagon wanted more time, then my apologies but I believe you were on Kowahbunga specifically due to being okay with that day end.
If people on my wagon wanted more time, then you could've gotten it by not having me be the other wagon. :P
Eliminating a scumread > eliminating the only player I know is guaranteed to be town. 100%.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her
You seem to have strayed from my argument. I'm not sure how to engage when you're talking about something different than the original point.In post 433, Vanderscamp wrote:I'm having a hard time believing you believe this.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Myself.In post 434, Doctor Drew wrote:Ranger, who is your 100% totally town guaranteed no lie?
I've no read comparable in strength to my read on Ranger. :P
(If you meant who my strongest townread is, that'd be Aisa tho.)
VOTE: RangerAKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
- {Top Tier}
- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her
{Aisa}
{Vanderscamp, Bellaphant}
{AurorusVox}
{Bloodb0t}
{Doctor Drew}
{Oclaxian Empire}
Think I like this better.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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Well I do. As I am the one thinking, it is my belief we shall side with. ;)In post 444, Vanderscamp wrote:I don't believe you believe either of these things.
My point was, essentially;
You said "I don't believe you have this read".
The reason for that read was vibes/gut.
You developed a vibes/gut read on the slot identical to mine.
Yet you don't believe I had the read off of vibes/gut.
It's definitely possible I was wrong about the overlap in posts vibed as town.
The hypocrisy remains.
Your entire reason for suspecting me is based off belief I didn't believe my read.
My read, off the exact same thing you read that exact same slot, the exact same way.
I know I was genuine the same way you know you were genuine.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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I agree Vander is town.In post 458, Aisa wrote:That’s maybe a townie perspective more than not.
I happen to think Vander is being blinded by Oclaxian Empire sharing their erroneous scumread on me, as without the Ranger scumread, there is far less favorable in Oclaxian's iso.
I'll vote Vander if there's no other option. However, his wrong scumread is a threat. If the game comes down to a heaven vote and he advocates for my death there, we lose because I'm town.
I'd much prefer someone like you if I had to.
I'm voting myself because I am the only slot I know to be town. At some point consolidation must occur, but it need not be this moment.
The answer is always both. Throw everything out at every stage, but past reasons build off of new reasons. Remove all past reasons for a read. Start over, resort, and form a new opinion. Then take the previously-discarded reasons and bring them back. If prior reads match the new read, then those reads are stronger. If prior reads conflict with the new read, then focus on sorting the conflict; whichever is stronger after the sort will result in a stronger read.In post 464, Aisa wrote:7. Do I stick with something similar to my current reads, or do I need to throw them out and restart from scratch?
I've a need to do this myself, been having a rough week so hoping to get that done tomorrow.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
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- Posts: 8374
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Not great.In post 465, Bellaphant wrote:How do you feel about Drew's posting since the flip?
If there was scum on the D1 wagon, it was Drew. I'm not getting town vibes rn at all.AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgangGame History"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."- RadiantCowbells |"Ranger's been town in most of them."- Plotinus
"Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked"- usesPython-
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Ranger She/Her{Top Tier}She/Her
- {Top Tier}
- {Top Tier}
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: October 7, 2015
- Pronoun: She/Her