Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[Ranger]

I don't believe that you have individual townreads on all of those Arko posts.

My readslists demonstrate evolution in thought.

I clearly had reason to believe Arko was town, or else Arko wouldn't have been at the top.

I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.

You have a misunderstanding of my brain neurology then.

Which was I asked about first?

I was asked about the interactions with Oclixian Empire first, so I answered that first.

[Ranger]

I don't believe that you have individual townreads on all of those Arko posts.

My readslists demonstrate evolution in thought.

I clearly had reason to believe Arko was town, or else Arko wouldn't have been at the top.

I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.

You have a misunderstanding of my brain neurology then.

Which was I asked about first?

I was asked about the interactions with Oclixian Empire first, so I answered that first.

Receipts:

121 was the first time I was asked about the interaction. (The context behind it was the votes on Oclixian Empire; those votes included Arko.)

I stated Arko was the towniest slot in the game off of their content (not interactions,

content

) in 176. Wording is important; if Arko's interactions were the basis of that read I would have specified. (The post literally said I thought Arko's content was town

separately from

interactions.)

The next time was 170. Ox-Arko interactions, not Arko content.
THEN 173. Oc-Arko interactions, PLUS Arko content. Which is how I responded.

I answer things by and large in their chronological order.
I was asked about the interaction before I was asked to explain the read.
So I explained the interaction before I explained the read.

Both were quite apparent from the start. I was rather unambiguous.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't believe that you have individual townreads on all of those Arko posts.

My readslists demonstrate evolution in thought.

I clearly had reason to believe Arko was town, or else Arko wouldn't have been at the top.

I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.

You have a misunderstanding of my brain neurology then.

Which was I asked about first?

I was asked about the interactions with Oclixian Empire first, so I answered that first.

This isn't true, though, right after you made your post that Ox was asking about, they questioned you about Arko being town, not the associative read.

why do u not think arko?

Well for a start you're not scum with Arko so if you're scum, Arko's not.

But even if you're town, Arko's the towniest slot in the game to me rn. I vibe hard with Arko.

[Vanderscamp]

If you're trying to say you were responding to a post someone made earlier in the game when responding to Ox asking about your Arko read, then sure, but I have no idea why you wouldn't have put that in the big ranking post you made that Ox was responding to.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't believe that you have individual townreads on all of those Arko posts.

My readslists demonstrate evolution in thought.

I clearly had reason to believe Arko was town, or else Arko wouldn't have been at the top.

I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.

You have a misunderstanding of my brain neurology then.

Which was I asked about first?

I was asked about the interactions with Oclixian Empire first, so I answered that first.

Receipts:

121 was the first time I was asked about the interaction. (The context behind it was the votes on Oclixian Empire; those votes included Arko.)

I stated Arko was the towniest slot in the game off of their content (not interactions,

content

) in 176. Wording is important; if Arko's interactions were the basis of that read I would have specified. (The post literally said I thought Arko's content was town

separately from

interactions.)

The next time was 170. Ox-Arko interactions, not Arko content.
THEN 173. Oc-Arko interactions, PLUS Arko content. Which is how I responded.

I answer things by and large in their chronological order.
I was asked about the interaction before I was asked to explain the read.
So I explained the interaction before I explained the read.

Both were quite apparent from the start. I was rather unambiguous.

I don't understand these receipts because the post I'm talking about is #149.

Maybe we're talking about different posts?

[Vanderscamp]

I also don't really agree with "evolution of thought" for your Arko reads.

Like, maybe in the sense that the words you're choosing to explain the read are slightly different?

But you aren't going into any detail about your reasoning, you're just calling all of his individual posts towny with different wording.
Like, I could take your explanations for your reads, choose a random player, and say the same thing about all of their posts and it could apply to them too.


Not that that's necessarily super scummy!
I can believe having Arko as a top town this game.

What I don't believe is that you think every single one of those posts you quoted is individually towny, I don't think Arko's posts deserve that, and the reasoning you did give wasn't very compelling.
I think it's more likely you're either lying or TMIing the read, it just feels way too strong to be real.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Ranger

[Aisa]

Maybe I’ll regret saying this in 2 hours’ time, but Vanders can have a townread for now…
*trembles like a leaf*

I like the lemon too but I haven’t thought about it as hard. (The lemon is AurorusVox.)

Why is giving me a townread terrifying?

Because… what I am wrong and you’re secretly super sneaky, and me giving you the townread starts a chain of actions like the beat of a butterfly’s wings, making everyone else townread you too, and then we get attached to you and trust you and look up to you, and give you allll the soft power, which you use to do sneaky things like pushing saints into hell one at a time, except you do it slowly slowly and make us think it was our own idea, and before we know it we all dieeeee?

More serious posting later :’)

[Oclaxian Empire]

I don't care about this game currently, because Grim had the primary stake in playing the game.

I think you're scum. I don't like any of your posting, and I especially don't like how you're trying to defend Arko.

I think you should always die before ELO, and I think we should always die before ELO.

I don't want you to die before ELO, I think your posts this page have been very towny.

I agree with you about that post of Ranger's being scummy, but for a different reason.

I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.

Kori: I think we as a slot should be killed before ELO, or at least before Judgement Day. The only exception is if you think I obv!town so hard that I can never be scum, and I remain in the game to further narrow down the scumpool, in which case - I could see that, and I would agree with the sentiment, but I still think as a slot, we should be sorted and sent off

before

that point.

Also, is your scumread on Ranger because of the bolded?

(I also have some time before I go V/LA today and tomorrow, so I'm gonna try to make use of that time. I got some notes from Grim on gamestate that I can post later today if anyone wants them.)

[AurorusVox]

Ranger - what do you make of arko apparently freaking out over e-2 being too soon, when they themselves thought they’d put ox at e-2 earlier in the thread?

[AurorusVox]

Maybe I’ll regret saying this in 2 hours’ time, but Vanders can have a townread for now…
*trembles like a leaf*

I like the lemon too but I haven’t thought about it as hard. (The lemon is AurorusVox.)

Why is giving me a townread terrifying?

Because… what I am wrong and you’re secretly super sneaky, and me giving you the townread starts a chain of actions like the beat of a butterfly’s wings, making everyone else townread you too, and then we get attached to you and trust you and look up to you, and give you allll the soft power, which you use to do sneaky things like pushing saints into hell one at a time, except you do it slowly slowly and make us think it was our own idea, and before we know it we all dieeeee?

More serious posting later :’)

I’m not sure how I feel about this…

[AurorusVox]

Asia do you normally prefer to townhunt or scumhunt??

[Aisa]

Maybe I’ll regret saying this in 2 hours’ time, but Vanders can have a townread for now…
*trembles like a leaf*

I like the lemon too but I haven’t thought about it as hard. (The lemon is AurorusVox.)

Why is giving me a townread terrifying?

Because… what I am wrong and you’re secretly super sneaky, and me giving you the townread starts a chain of actions like the beat of a butterfly’s wings, making everyone else townread you too, and then we get attached to you and trust you and look up to you, and give you allll the soft power, which you use to do sneaky things like pushing saints into hell one at a time, except you do it slowly slowly and make us think it was our own idea, and before we know it we all dieeeee?

More serious posting later :’)

I’m not sure how I feel about this…

I'm not sure how I feel about you not being sure how you feel about my wonderful sense of humour...

Asia do you normally prefer to townhunt or scumhunt??

I don't deliberately do one over the other, I'd guess that I've typically had better results by some version of townhunting where I find a good number of townies and the rest of the scum get PoEd out. But the sample size is small

If you're town you're probably getting a bit sketched out by the fact I'm being hedgy and talking about my reads in uncertain terms - I think people who have played with me would agree that that's not unusual for me.

[Aisa]

Or maybe it's just my disarming charisma, that happens too

[Ranger]

Maybe we're talking about different posts?

That would not surprise me. Given I'm the one who wrote my posts tho, I trust my view on them more than yours.

This isn't true, though, right after you made your post that Ox was asking about, they questioned you about Arko being town, not the associative read.

That was a question about the associative, not a question about Arko being town.

I was asked why I didn't think Arko's vote on Oclaxian Empire was scum.

That wasn't a question about Arko's alignment.
That was a question about Arko's association with Oclaxian Empire.

The context was "Oclaxian Empire voters contain scum".
I specified 'maybe so, but not Arko'.
I was asked why not Arko.
I wasn't asked why Arko was town, or why Arko wasn't scum.
I was specifically asked why Arko wasn't scum voting Oclaxian Empire.

I answered the question given.

Again--if you think differently, you don't understand my brain neurology.

I have no idea why you wouldn't have put that in the big ranking post you made that Ox was responding to.

My default is readslists without commentary.

I add commentary when I think it pertinent, for things worth commenting on.
19/80/81 contain zero commentary.
82 contains one comment, disagreeing with the BloodB0t town callout.

86 is my first substantive post.

Then 119.

And then in 120 it was back to one comment, specifying I believe Arko wasn't scum on Oclaxian Empire. (A read previously talked about per 119.)

And more commentary in 149.

I comment on things worth responding to, as they pop up. I'm not inclined to react to nonexistent content.

Nobody asked me to explain my Arko townread until later. I explained it as soon as it was requested.
People did ask me to explain my "Arko is not scum with Oclaxian Empire" take. I explained each time it was asked.

If you take umbrage with my minimalism, there's a simple fix; ask and engage me. The fault doesn't lie with me for not inquiring into my posts.

But you aren't going into any detail about your reasoning, you're just calling all of his individual posts towny with different wording.

Yes?

That's still evolution in read. It's taking new information in. The new information might be reworded of prior info, which results in...

...Arko being my top townread,
Changing to being my top townread,
Changing to being my top townread,
Changing to being my top townread.

+Town actions build off of each other. One town action builds off of previous town actions.
Arko's posting has been +town throughout the game.

I also did explain my Arko read beyond using vibes though. Solving in 26 was actually +town specifically by dividing the scum up into "one not posted, two which have". That gives tangible analysis and the beginning of sorting.
It specifies 2 scum in {Arko, KawaiiKame, Oclaxian Empire, Vanderscamp, Aisa, AurorusVox, Ranger, Bellaphant} and 1 scum in...
{BloodB0t}.

I believe that being the last post before going to bed shows an insanely +town mindset, and given followthrough, would allow for further analysis and breakdown of those within, which Arko had already done on page one.

Like, I could take your explanations for your reads, choose a random player, and say the same thing about all of their posts and it could apply to them too.

Sure, but that'd make you a liar because those things wouldn't apply to their posts.

What I don't believe is that you think every single one of those posts you quoted is individually towny, I don't think Arko's posts deserve that, and the reasoning you did give wasn't very compelling.
it just feels way too strong to be real.

You seem to have a very different view of my posts than reality.

I've repeatedly stated I'll listen to cases of Arko being scum.
None have responded to my offer.

It's not that Arko is strongly town.
I have Arko as town, but my reads are fluent enough I could be convinced otherwise.

It's that I think the

scumreads

are too strong to be real, because nobody has brought forth compelling arguments on Arko.
The burden of proof is on the accuser--not the accused.

The default is a slot (including Arko) being town, and Arko's posts support that to me.

When I feel Arko's posts are towny enough, and the default is town, then it is up to the accusers to convince me otherwise.

Nobody has even tried.

[Ranger]

The burden of proof is on the accuser--not the accused.

Speaking of, I've undertaken that burden and made my accusation.

Spoiler: my case

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

This is a very interesting way of wording it.
It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149.

I believe Arko-OE have interactions strongly indicating they're not scum-scum. Scum-town's possible. Town-scum's possible. Town-town's possible. Never scum-scum.
Separately, Arko is my strongest townread rn.
Separately, Oclaxian Empire's content has overall been suspect, enough to be a main scum candidate.
Arko isn't town because of OE being scum. The three points had no connection. Stating they did connect is somewhat disingenuous.

i think either ur a partner with arko, or scum trying to pocket arko.

Oh? How interesting you use this as an argument against me!

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

You seemed quite opposed to this argument when

*I*

was the one you thought was making it against

you

.

You are saying I'm scum regardless of Arko's alignment (partner with Arko = I'm scum, scum trying to pocket Arko = I'm scum),
In the exact same way you

objected

to me saying Arko was town regardless of yours. ("Arko isn't scum with Oclaxian, Arko isn't scum when Oclaxian is town".)

Care to explain the discrepancy?

It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149

this does not say ur town. this says ur scum bc you know what my alignment is.

Wording's important.

You didn't say "Ranger

knows

our alignment and has

decided

to not reevaluate".

You said,

it just makes me feel like ranger has very deterministically decided what alignment we are, and what arko is, and not gonna re-evaluate.

"Ranger

decided

our alignment, and

is not

going to reevaluate".

The difference between these is the difference between calling me scum and calling me town.

The former would have been calling me scum. If you stated you thought I KNEW your alignment, you'd be stating by implication I'm scum.

The latter is what you did, and is calling me town. You stated I DECIDED your alignment.

Scum don't decide the alignment of other players. (Town do.)
Scum know the alignment of other players.

Your reference to me

deciding

rather than

knowing

your alignment.

It's not semantics--it's a scumslip.

VOTE: Oclaxian Empire.

184 + 185(backed by 176) are huge.

I believe Oclaxian Empire demonstrated a lack of internal consistency in their thoughts. This is

maybe

explainable depending on the individuals who did the posts and their internal communication system. If they weren't talking to each other and if it was two different people in the system posting, it could come from town. So I'm not saying that alone makes a smoking gun.

The scumslip does though. It was possible Oclaxian Empire was simply stating "Yes, I think you're town, who determined my alignment and won't reevaluate".

Was

, but with Oclaxian Empire having denied this as what they meant, and insisting it meant the opposite, meant any benefit of the doubt was removed.

Oclaxian Empire didn't say I

knew

their alignment, accusing me of being scum.
Oclaxian Empire said I

determined

their alignment, which is a slip of the tongue revealing they know I am town.

Stop

Vanderscamp:

Why have you not addressed my case?

You've attacked my defense of Arko.

You've been silent about my case on Oclaxian Empire.

Or maybe it's just my disarming charisma, that happens too

Aisa:

You've started your more serious reading.

Would you care to comment on my case?

Ranger - what do you make of arko apparently freaking out over e-2 being too soon, when they themselves thought they’d put ox at e-2 earlier in the thread?

AurorusVox:

Counter-question; what do you make of Oclaxian Empire stating I had 'decided' my reads and 'would not reevaluate' (implying I'm town), rather than 'know and decide not to reevaluate'?
What do you make of Oclaxian Empire's hypocrisy in stating I'm scum regardless of Arko's alignment, when having criticized me for saying Arko was town regardless of Oclaxian Empire's alignment?

[Ranger]

Ranger - what do you make of arko apparently freaking out over e-2 being too soon, when they themselves thought they’d put ox at e-2 earlier in the thread?

I don't see any freak-out. 45 is no freak-out. It is responding to the e-2. It is not a freakout. It is commenting on it. Commentary does not a freakout make. Tone-wise I would actually say it's the

opposite

of a freakout. It's inquiring into Oclaxian Empire's vote in a way I feel was quite town.

It is no sin to have suspicion on a slot after that slot votes you. The handling was the important part.

I don't see hypocrisy in voting Oclaxian Empire up to e-2 when Arko has valid reasons to suspect the slot.
Arko wasn't concerned about being at e-2. Arko was inquiring into Oclaxian Empire's e-2 vote. After the inquiry, Arko came to the conclusion Oclaxian Empire was likely scum in part for the e-2 vote. Arko put Oclaxian Empire to e-2.

There's nothing suspect in that chain of events. It's my opinion it's quite the opposite. I believe that chain of events and that process indicates Arko had a town mindset, approaching from a position of being uninformed and forming an opinion based off the information being generated in-thread.

[BloodB0t]

VOTE: Ranger

The burden of proof is on the person making a claim, we think you're claiming that Arko is town without giving enough proof. The first thing you mentioned about your Arko read, you said it was from vibes, and Arko has always remained your top town read. Was there anything beyond "vibes" that made you initially have him as your top town read?

I believe that being the last post before going to bed shows an insanely +town mindset

Can you elaborate on this?

[BloodB0t]

I agree with Vander that your whole 'progression' this game seems to be coming from TMI.

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: Ranger

E-2 IIRC

[Oclaxian Empire]

Arko and I should be flipped before a judgement day tbh.

[Oclaxian Empire]

I still have time before I actually gotta be V/LA and I wanna make some use of it.

I think barring a Ranger flip today, we should go for Arko IMO. I wanna look over both wagons again but I think they’re both pretty townie or have one scum at most on them.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Actually I don’t think either wagon really has scum on it unless it’s just Bella, but I think Bella’s ok atm.

[BloodB0t]

Yeah Vander seems pretty towny.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Grim’s notes boil down to effectively:

{Ranger, Arko} - scum. Ranger for defense of Arko/general play. Arko for not doing anything with their posts.
{Vander, Vox} - solidly town, and ok to play out the game.
{Aisu, Bella, Blood} - nulltown. Nothing substantial Grim remembers about the slot, but it thinks Aisu is more likely town than scum. Bella more likely townie, but not solidly so. Blood is a gut-town read currently and nothing else.
{Kawaii} - Nothing substantial, and could easily flip scum, but that’d require a reread/ISO to really determine.