Micro 1091 - Prism v. 1L Year [Game Over]

[Lukewarm]

Hello, its me!

[Lukewarm]

Player	Votes
elle (1L) (3)	Bell (82), GuiltyLion (146), PookyTheMagicalBear (147)

Oh no, I am being voted. Stop that.

[Lukewarm]

I have read 1 page, and I am leaning town on Meuh and Ydra.

Meuh for the miller counter claim, and Ydra for her joke in response to the miller counter claim lol

Ydra, who is scum?

[Lukewarm]

I am also leaning town on Bell.

[Lukewarm]

right now i Do Not know

if you asked me before i would have said cakez but atm i’m doubting that
why do you lean town on meuh?
and me for that matter

Meuh because of the miller counter claim. Feel like a move that would unnecessarily draw negative attention, assuming Meuh scum / Pooky town, counter claiming into taking the stance that there will not be 2 millers, and voting pooky, seems like a recipe to getting pooky to constantly scum read you the entire game.

Yours was the tone of your post fake claiming miller. I liked it.

[Lukewarm]

I think town!you would be taking a stronger stance than just urging us to toss aside the claims for now ? I do agree that focusing on things other than that is probably helpful, but the last sentence of your post feels fake

I find myself generally agreeing with Meuh on this, wrt to Pooky just backing off on the person who CC'd them.

VOTE: pooky

[Lukewarm]

What a delightful replacement

:waves:

(I tried to find a waving gif, but could not find one I was happy with, smh)

[Lukewarm]

Broadly speaking the vast majority of players aren't the type to claim miller as mafia, it takes a specific type of bold/risky player because most players tend to play scum rather passively. Meuh doesn't really fit into that archetype in my head and I'm inclined to believe her claim, her posting afterwards reads solidly town to me and I don't see reason to doubt that.

Oh look, catboi read my mind, while also being in the past from me. Quite impressive.

[Lukewarm]

Dunn's entrance made me go

But I am not really sure why.

So :shrug:

[Lukewarm]

I want to hear what you think Town!Pooky would do

Honestly? Tunnel the shit out of her lmao

At least for a little while.

[Lukewarm]

why

I feel like it is pretty standard to be suspicious of a CC. Also to be suspicious that this 9 player game has 2 millers.

I think that I would not have been as suspicious of you, if you had responded with the reasons why she is more likely to be town given the situation, but instead you walked this middle road of half heartedly pushing her, and then dropping it, and moving on. And that does not feel like a townie, who thinks her position is townie OR a townie who thinks that her cc makes her scum by default.

[Lukewarm]

yea the point is i dont know

And I am trying to say that the way you went about sorting the question did not feel genuine.

I did not see a gut reaction scum read, and I did not see an analytical take on why she would do that as scum (You never voiced a reason to think she was town before the post you just made).

You just pushed back at her half heartedly when she pushed you, and then dropped it.

And that feels off to me.

And thinking about it from a scum POV, "tell me a flavor that makes sense as a miller" into "sure that flavor makes sense" into "pivoting away from the double miller claim" seems like a reasonable plan of action given the situation.

[Lukewarm]

I did not see an analytical take on why she would

not

do that as scum

ebwop

[Lukewarm]

Dunn's entrance made me go

But I am not really sure why.

So :shrug:

I actually feel a little better about dunn after a second page of him existing in the thread. I retract my

[Lukewarm]

I have worked through the conversations on pooky not having fake claimed miller in his first post as scum before, and it is giving me a little pause.

[Lukewarm]

Sad.

[Lukewarm]

Here, with Dunn's town read on catboi.

Spoiler:

Napkin thoughts: Millers town, catboi town, Bell town

why is catboi town?

@Dunn - I get that you like the post but you really believe that's sufficient for a townread? 177 and 179 reads as though you're POEing via your townreads and that feels kinda rote and simplistic. I don't think mafia is incapable of producing catboi's ISO so far

And then here with Ydra's town lean on my slot.

Spoiler:

the point is that i think she could like... dunno. i feel like mafia would be a little less all over the place about it and less overtly... intense? i don't know if that's the right word but maybe dealing with it head-on. it doesn't feel like the correct response as mafia to me.

I feel you that this reaction is a bit disproportionate and a lot of mafia would probably be playing it more cool here, but I also don't really know her that well and don't know what her scumrange is or what she's capable of. some people do like to smash the AtE button cause it's easier for them to sound genuine, especially if the suspicion isn't exactly 'fair' despite being correct

idk did you have any thoughts on the aforementioned phone point?

Neither of these come across to me, as GL trying to get a feel for Dunn or Ydra's alignments, or to see if they are swayed by their arguments, but more to weaken early town reads that they have forming, which feels like a weird town priority for page 11

VOTE: Guilty Lion

[Lukewarm]

I am working through the SirCakez and Ydra stuff, and all my brain in getting is static.

It takes up a decent amount of thread conversation here, but I do not feel like I formed any actionable thoughts about either of them from it tbh.

[Lukewarm]

It's possible I have pre-biased myself against your slot, Luke, since I stated in no uncertain terms what my opinion was prior to the rep-in. However, I don't like the read on ydrasse, and I don't really like the push on pooky. The ydrasse read felt too free, too easy, assigning credit to a reaction that doesn't seem especially alignment indicative and I think most people wouldn't read anything into. Going after pooky there just feels like...trying to manufacture

something

but I don't think it looks like especially well thought out reasoning, just a very simplistic point about him backing down too quickly.

The read on Ydra was a page one read lol. I just got here, and was trying to get into the thread, and that was a page 1 thought.

Since then, I quite liked that she was the only one vocally town reading my slot as it gained votes, and it makes me want to nod along and call her town for it, but also, I am aware that that is just as likely to be a scum stance to take.

I then liked the way that she seemed like she was struggling to find the exact right words to explain why she thought that elle was town. It felt like she was repeatedly responding to people with something along the lines of "that is not quite what I meant, actually..." which made it feel like she had a Real Thought that she was trying to get across.

But then, SirCakez suggestion that she sounded informed did worry me, because if I did not know Elle's alignment, I do not think I would have been town reading her, so it gave me pause.

I think that overall, I would not be interested in voting her because of the explanation thing ringing true to me like she had Specific Throughts that she felt it important to be clear on.

I am also mellowing on Pooky (moved the vote and everything lol). It struck me as odd, I said that, and then answered the follow up questions. But those were my immediate thoughts on reading the interaction.

[Lukewarm]

@Luke - I don't really think any of you, Dunn, or catboi have been townie, so I am indeed trying to get a feel for Dunn's alignment and challenging Ydra on why she TRed your slot

it's kinda disingenuous to frame that as "weaken early town reads" as opposed to, y'know, scumhunting

Your line of questioning with Dunn did not appear to lead to you voicing any thoughts on Dunn's alignment wrt his Catboi read, nor did you seem to argue that Catboi was scum. It was just "but scum catboi COULD do that too, so you should not town read him." And that being the where that conversation led, left me with that impression.

I also, just, in general do not trust that sort of argument as genuine, because it seems to set a precedent that in order to think someone is more likely to be town, you must believe that their actions could not be replicated. And that is a very silly bar to set for town reads.

[Lukewarm]

I have caught up to the point where I repped in, and already feel like I have been staring at this game for too many hours today

[Lukewarm]

The ydrasse read felt too free, too easy, assigning credit to a reaction that doesn't seem especially alignment indicative and I think most people wouldn't read anything into. Going after pooky there just feels like...trying to manufacture something but I don't think it looks like especially well thought out reasoning, just a very simplistic point about him backing down too quickly.

I feel like this whole take ignores the context of the fact that I just repped in away from the posts.

Because, yeah, that would be a super weak reason to town read Ydra, on the 5th irl day of the game. But that was my page 1 town pings, posted 5 mins after I repped in, when I had read exactly 1 page of the game.

And the thing with Pooky was my first vote of the game. Made 1 hour into catching up.

I think it is pretty common knowledge that I spew my thoughts into the thread, as I am having them, so I am not really sure why you would expect more nuanced takes from me at the 5 min or the 1 hour mark tbh.

[Lukewarm]

yea the point is i dont know

And I am trying to say that the way you went about sorting the question did not feel genuine.

I did not see a gut reaction scum read, and I did not see an analytical take on why she would do that as scum (You never voiced a reason to think she was town before the post you just made).

You just pushed back at her half heartedly when she pushed you, and then dropped it.

And that feels off to me.

And thinking about it from a scum POV, "tell me a flavor that makes sense as a miller" into "sure that flavor makes sense" into "pivoting away from the double miller claim" seems like a reasonable plan of action given the situation.

ok what else should I have done to sort her other than asking for her flavor

Not sure tbh.

Like I said, I don't think that I would have questioned a "scum would be less likely to take this path, so meuh is +town" take from you. Or a gut reaction scum read from you.

But it was the way you went from joking/cordial when she first claimed, into telling her to flavor claim or its a scum claim, into dropping, that just did not sit right with me.

But, I have been swayed as I read more of the thread and thought more about it. I have you back in null territory at this point.

[Lukewarm]

Pooky, what is your read on me so far?

[Lukewarm]

I asked because you seemed very focused on convincing me that you are town. But you are also voting for me.

But I liked your response well enough.

like I don't really get how you reread the game to here and came to that as the most noteworthy thing to push on

it feels like its been cherrypicked out of GL's iso to fit a specific narrative that is not actually even that convincing tbh

What do you think is the most noteworthy thing to push on at this point, if not that?

I don't really feel like anyone has jumped out and claimed scum yet at this point, do you feel like I missed something?

I have bell and meuh as both likely town. Soft leaning town on Ydra.

I thought a lot about you, but the passion behind that scum read went away.

Cakez posts have largely felt like ones that I don't know how to sort one way or the other, although I did like his take on Ydra seeming informed (even if I am not sure I agree) as a reasonable suspicion that he could have in the moment that he voiced it.

Dunn and Catboi, I don't have either down as town, but did not see any particularly noteworthy reason to suspect them either.

And then there is my GL suspicion, so that is where my vote is.

Where should my vote be, if not there? what did I miss in my catch up?

[Lukewarm]

Setting you up.

[Lukewarm]

(You did not take it)

[Lukewarm]

what r u smoking i do not care about your read on me at all my goal is to figure out if you are mafia blowing smoke up my ass.

I don't know man, 414, 439, and 442 all came across to me like you were trying to change my mind.

Especially 442, which came across as you genuinely trying to explain to me the town thought process that led to your actions, and did not come with any questions or anything for me.

[Lukewarm]

Maybe I was wrong to phrase it as "very focused on convincing me" so much as: I read 442, and it did not feel like the way someone would respond to someone that they thought was scum -- but you were voting me. So I asked about your read

And your response felt more like you were on the fence, and that disconnect went away.

I think I actually am swinging towards you just being town after actually interacting with you.

[Lukewarm]

like gls thoughts on catboi exactly mirror my own. so they make sense to me. i just dont bother to question dflors townread cuz i think its tactically bad.

I do not think that it is unreasonable to not be swayed by Dunn's reasons. I wasn't. I still don't have a read on catboi.

It also did not bother me that he asked Dunn to explain the read, that is also reasonable. My issue was where GL went after that.

It did not read to me, like GL was trying to divine if Dunn's read was a plausibly genuine read or not, and therefore whether having that read was scummy or not. At least, I did not see anything about that coming from GL's posts following Dunn's explanation.

Instead, it seemed like he pivoted into trying to convince Dunn not to have that read. And he was not even arguing that Cartboi is scum. Just that Dunn should not have a town read because it is

possible

for scum to replicate it.

I don't see why a townie would actually care if Dunn has a day 1 town read on Catboi, especially one Dunn openly said he is not married to

Spoiler:

I am not disregarding the 4 people I am townreading for the rest of the game, I do think it is a good place to start though.

But there is scum motivation to stop people from forming too many town reads.

[Lukewarm]

wild take wholly unfounded in reality

Okay.

You are welcome to continue to argue that my concern [which I have already convinced myself is unfounded once I had a better understanding of your read on me], is unfounded.

But I am not sure it actually helps either of us lol

[Lukewarm]

If the bar of expectation for me to possibly be town is "have a scum read that I find palatable by page 20" or you are scum, then I don't know why that is your bar for me, nor do I intend to stress myself out striving to meet it.

I have given you my reads, and you just don't like them, which :shrug:

[Lukewarm]

Like some is fine but some of it like the read on me, on Dunn and Catboi seems kinda manufactured/positioning himself and then the last line just feels like scum annoyed at being pushed for wrong reasons type vibe

I was responding directly to the comment that that could not be the most interesting thing I found during my catch up, so purposefully mentioned every player -- including the ones I did not have a read on.

[Lukewarm]

I do not think that I am generally very good at convincing people I am town once I am on the "back foot" as pooky put it, and the thread starts being about me (to be fair, this is probably as true if I were scum as it is when I am town).

And seeing as how I hit E-1 already, and I don't plan on throwing myself all into "proving myself" or what ever, so I think I'll just claim.

I am a 2-shot Tracker.

So, yall can discuss if yall are killing me for claiming, or letting me live for being a PR, and decide on that basis.

And I'll just skip the hassle of trying so hard if I am dying today.

[Lukewarm]

I do not think that I am generally very good at convincing people I am town once I am on the "back foot" as pooky put it, and the thread starts being about me (to be fair, this is probably as true if I were scum as it is when I am town).

And seeing as how I hit E-1 already, and I don't plan on throwing myself all into "proving myself" or what ever, so I think I'll just claim.

I am a 2-shot Tracker.

So, yall can discuss if yall are killing me for claiming, or letting me live for being a PR, and decide on that basis.

And I'll just skip the hassle of trying so hard if I am dying today.

what's your flavor

I am The Perpetually High-strung Stressball.

The flavor text was basically keeping up with other peoples study habits, including pressuring Prism to study more (with them)

[Lukewarm]

Still feels like there's probably a scum between Luke and GL but it's not something that needs immediate resolution in my opinion.

Why do you have the two of us grouped together in this thought?

[Lukewarm]

Maybe I am ascribing too much to the unsaid, but I thought it was pretty plausible that GL's questioning of Dunn was for exactly the reason of figuring out if it was genuine or not.

I feel like I said it fairly clearly in the post you quoted here, but I did not have an issue with GL questioning Dunn's read. And the thing that pinged me was his comments to dunn after dunn explained the read.

I do feel a bit like I am beating a dead horse at this point. But I also don't know where I can find a living horse to beat until more people come post more things.

[Lukewarm]

Still feels like there's probably a scum between Luke and GL but it's not something that needs immediate resolution in my opinion.

Why do you have the two of us grouped together in this thought?

My feeling is you're pushing him and he's been pushing your slot, I don't strongly townread either of you, it just feels like dynamic where there's a scum usually. Either he caught elle and you saw pushing back as the only viable angle or he was going at you in bad faith and you saw through it. It

doesn't

feel like a town vs. town dynamic, at least to me.

This line feels disconnected from what has actually happened in the thread.


While his vote is on my slot, I did not get the impression that GL was particularly pushing my slot when I read through. and even looking back, he voted elle, and explained that vote, but then largely has been focused else where. He has like 2 total posts about Elle 146 253

So it feels really strange to me that you are framing it as us mutually pushing one another, or that the scenario in which I am town is one where I saw through that and recognized a bad faith push - especially since my issues with GL had nothing to do with anything he said about Elle.

[Lukewarm]

I am still trying to get a feel for your thoughts, so that was not a particularly helpful response.

I am trying to figure out why me flipping town would influence how likely you feel GL is to be scum.

[Lukewarm]

You said that part of it was because we were mutually pushing each other, and I counted that by saying that GL has not been particularly pushing me.

Does that change your take on whether me flipping town would bolster a GL scum read? Or do you feel like I missed something from the GL push?

Do you feel that way about us, even if you were wrong about the mutual push? if so, why?

[Lukewarm]

On a different note

Luke's entrance overlaps a lot with my own perspective on the game over time and I don't know if that's something I should feel good or bad about

The idea that if I were scum, I might mirror my PoV to yours in particular is kind of silly, but I also think it is a townie paranoia to have.

+1 town point to Meuh.

[Lukewarm]

:thinking

UNVOTE:

[Lukewarm]

I think that I am convincing myself that GL is town, and that catboi is positioning to eliminate him after killing me for being a tracker.

Both because he linked the two of us together in a way that seems disingenuous, but also in the same post of doing that just side stepped eliminating inside the pair entirely for the day.

Especially when reading 502, and his pivot into Dunn feels toothless, like it was just The Best Option Left. Not like he even thought his thoughts on Dunn were Good.

[Lukewarm]

I literally just said we shouldn't vote you Day 1 so I don't know where you're getting the idea I'm trying to eliminate you. I would only push to eliminate you if you weren't NKed
-
I don't know where you'd get the idea I'd be able to effortlessly chain-elim GL and then you

I was not saying that I felt like you were trying to eliminate me. I specifically meant night kill me, and then use my town flip to elim GL.

[Lukewarm]

Why do I have to have a scumread I feel confident about on Day 1?

My issue is that you seemed more confident in there being scum between me and GL, yet chose Dunn.

Your stated position is that you GL is one of the lower people in your reads, and that his flip would give you insight into me, so that seems like the direction that would be more natural.

But you didn't go that direction. Instead, you voted you weaker read, and punted the Luke/GL pair down the road.

[Lukewarm]

I think that I am convincing myself that GL is town, and that catboi is positioning to eliminate him after killing me for being a tracker.

Both because he linked the two of us together in a way that seems disingenuous, but also in the same post of doing that just side stepped eliminating inside the pair entirely for the day.

Especially when reading 502, and his pivot into Dunn feels toothless, like it was just The Best Option Left. Not like he even thought his thoughts on Dunn were Good.

Luke, I want to revisit this. You're scumreading me here because my vote is "toothless", because I lack passion behind it.

That is ass backwards from what I actually said lol.

The toothless vote on Dunn was not the issue. My issue was (1) seeing you link my alignment to someone else, and not liking the explanation on why you did that. And (2) seeing you not pursue that joint read, in a way that I saw as strategically advantageous to you if you were scum.

The toothless part was more how I thought about whether it made sense for town!you, who genuinely believed (1), to still do (2). And I realized I would have been more understanding of that, had you been passionate about the Dunn read as well. But you weren't.

But you - you've seen my scumgame. Do you think I, at any time as scum, come across as dispassionate? As lacking the will to put conviction behind a push?

I am fully aware that you could fake a passionate scum read. But, given the overall energy level of the thread (or lack there of), I do not know that you would have any reason to feel like you needed to put one together, or that doing so would have helped you at the time.

Your vote on Dunn, when ignoring your stated position on me/GL, was generally inoffensive.

[Lukewarm]

ebwop

I think that I am convincing myself that GL is town, and that catboi is positioning to eliminate him after killing me for being a tracker.

Both because he linked the two of us together in a way that seems disingenuous, but also in the same post of doing that just side stepped eliminating inside the pair entirely for the day.

Especially when reading 502, and his pivot into Dunn feels toothless, like it was just The Best Option Left. Not like he even thought his thoughts on Dunn were Good.

Luke, I want to revisit this. You're scumreading me here because my vote is "toothless", because I lack passion behind it.

That is ass backwards from what I actually said lol.

The toothless vote on Dunn was not the issue. My issue was (1) seeing you link my alignment to someone else, and not liking the explanation on why you did that. And (2) seeing you not pursue that joint read, in a way that I saw as strategically advantageous to you if you were scum.

The toothless part was more how I thought about whether it made sense for town!you, who genuinely believed (1), to still do (2). And I realized I would have been more understanding of that, had you been passionate about the Dunn read as well. But you weren't.

But you - you've seen my scumgame. Do you think I, at any time as scum, come across as dispassionate? As lacking the will to put conviction behind a push?

I am fully aware that you could fake a passionate scum read. But, given the overall energy level of the thread (or lack there of), I do not know that you would have any reason to feel like you needed to put one together, or that doing so would have helped you at the time.

Your vote on Dunn, when ignoring your stated position on me/GL, was generally inoffensive.

[Lukewarm]

I kind of want to go back and look at everyone's stances on Catboi before/after I called out my scum read on him, to see if so many people scum reading him now makes sense. Because when I wrote up my suspicions, I did it while feeling like the possibility of him getting eliminated was very low and that actually gunning for his elimination was a pointless endeavor.

And if there are people who switched their read, double check their stated read on me, because shifting that read after a case presented by someone you are scum reading, but letting live just because they claimed a PR, feels weird.

I do see that he only has 2 votes, but it does feel like there was a really heavy shift in his direction that I was not expecting.

[Lukewarm]

In general, there felt like there was enough of a shift, in a short enough time, that it has me worried that there could be opportunistic scum in there, and is making me second guess and want to be cautious before moving to actual eliminate him.

But also, in my quick scan of todays posts, I feel like there was a lot of ATE in catbois posts, in a way that makes me want to actually just kill him.

Yes, I am waffling. But, I also plan on shifting through some of this right now, and hopefully I can finish my breakfast (the afore mentioned waffle), and pick a direction.

[Lukewarm]

I went down a rabbit hole in the last hour or so lol.

Okay, so, Catboi made a post about me self resolving with time, and it reminded me of a game where it was argued back and forth whether or not a tracker claim would resolve itself, and I seemed to remember that it was catboi making the argument that it would not.

So just spent longer then I would like to admit trying to hunt down the game, to compare. But, it turns out that the person was NOT catboi, it was DUNN.

In this game, PYP, Marci was run up day 1, and then claimed tracker, and then some people backed off. Save The Dragons, voted her before the claim, but then was repeatedly saying that Marci would self resolve as a claimed tracker, and Dunn used that as a basis to claim that STD and Marci were scum partners, and asked repeatedly how the tracker claim would resolve itself.

Spoiler:

mArCi cLaiM yOUr rEsUlT

they didnt visit anyone

ok fascinating.

@Save the Dragons

Have you resolved marcistar's alignment from the above post? And please explain for everybody

But then this game, Dunn had me in his scum pool, but voted for someone else when I claimed tracker, and has not commented on Catboi's claim that I self resolve at all.

@Dunn, why were you all for killing Marci day 1 post tracker claim in that game, and suspicious of claims that a tracker would self resolve // but not feeling the need to voice anything along those lines in this game? Either about the decision to let me live for my claim, or in response to Catboi's claim that I self resolve?

[Lukewarm]

Luke is simply mad I dared to suspect him. He is probably town and gets resolved mechanically either way. I wish he would not play so emotionally, but at his core he's still the same newbie I flew off the handle at for deathtunneling me a couple years ago.

If I am wrong, and you genuinely feel this way about my suspicions on you, I am sorry.

I don't know that it helps to rebuff the idea or not, but I had you squarely in the ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ category when you were actively posting about suspecting me. My suspicions on you did not spark into existence until after you accepted that I was not the elim for the day.

So, from my PoV, I don't really feel like it had much of anything to do with your suspecting me? But I also don't claim to have 100% internal subconscious monitoring, so idk.

[Lukewarm]

Luke is town reading her because she made a joke on page 1 and because she is defending his slot. I think this is obviously terrible reasoning n face value. Early game gutreads are not very likely to be accurate, and townreading someone simply for defending you means you are highly likely to fall into a pocket. Scum defend players who otherwise look to be uncontested wagons all the time. I think he is biased because he disliked being run up so quickly upon entering the game (which to be fair is an entirely understandable response), and so has latched on to anyone he saw as being protective of him.

I do not currently have a town read on Ydra, fwiw.

My post about liking her page 1 post was never something that was going to influence my read of her long term, unless I continually ran into the Nice Vibes over and over during the catch up. It was a my gut reaction to the post, that I said out loud into the thread, because I was live tweeting my catch up, and starting out immediately with putting out Thoughts and Content, so that people would start talking to me, for me to get into the game. That stopped being a factor of my thoughts on Ydra very quickly.

I also recognized the potential of her white knighting my slot, and yes, I was drawn into it somewhat when I felt completely iced out from the game, but again, my emphasis on that have lessened over time.

I would say that currently, the only thing I have in my head as to why I might want to sort her town is this:

It felt like she was repeatedly responding to people with something along the lines of "that is not quite what I meant, actually..." which made it feel like she had a Real Thought that she was trying to get across.

Because I do think that caring about the exact specifics of the reasons she was trying to call Elle town points a little more towards an actual thought, then a scum who is just generally trying to position themselves as Having a Read, and Later Being Proven Right.

But I am also conscious of the fact that that is the only coherent thought I have had about Ydra's alignment so far this game, and that is not actually a good thing.

[Lukewarm]

Hey Luke, just checking in but are you lying about your role claim?

No, I am a tracker

[Lukewarm]

As for the "regardless of alignment" thing - it's partly salty on my part, no way around it, but it's also a theory I have. I think when a town player is really overconfident and trying to aggressively steer the game, they're usually wrong and usually harmful. On self-reflection, that's where all my worst moments come from. I've witnessed other players run games into the ground by being ego-driven and steamrolling everyone who opposed them. I think GL is tipping close to that in terms of how he's handling me. (Luke also does this but like I can't really suggest policy killing him because I think he's probably town)

Is this something that you are claiming that I am doing this game (but you cant kill me cause Tracker)?

[Lukewarm]

As for the "regardless of alignment" thing - it's partly salty on my part, no way around it, but it's also a theory I have. I think when a town player is really overconfident and trying to aggressively steer the game, they're usually wrong and usually harmful. On self-reflection, that's where all my worst moments come from. I've witnessed other players run games into the ground by being ego-driven and steamrolling everyone who opposed them. I think GL is tipping close to that in terms of how he's handling me. (Luke also does this but like I can't really suggest policy killing him because I think he's probably town)

Is this something that you are claiming that I am doing this game (but you cant kill me cause Tracker)?

They are talking about GuiltyLion there

I know that he was explicitly saying that GL was doing that. I was asking if this line

(Luke also does this but like I can't really suggest policy killing him because I think he's probably town)

Was saying that I am also doing it /this game/, but can't suggest I be policied /this game/

[Lukewarm]

Dunn, I liked your response to my questions about the tracker thing well enough.

I think I wasted like an hour tonight on that.

[Lukewarm]

You'd kill someone for aTe?

I don't know that I would kill someone for ate, in general.

But when I am already suspecting someone, and then there is a lot of it, it makes it hard for me to further engage with the read.

So, I think about just killing them to avoid having to wade through the mess of it, because if someone is actually upset, arguing that they are faking being upset feels like being a dick, but just accepting it as genuine feels like falling for ate.

So, I do have the urge to just kill, and let the flip answer the question.

In this exact instance, I think I am trying to just look at the other stuff around it for the time being.

[Lukewarm]

As a side note, I kind of liked 594 from GuiltyLion.

[Lukewarm]

catboi the reason I was/am considering voting you is because your reaction to the recent pressure on you has felt off tonally, it feels like way more concerned with the votes then I feel like you'd normally respond as town. I mean just look at the last two pages - I feel like that claim was really dramatic and unprompted and it doesn't feel organic.

The claim came after you said you were considering voting catboi, as did the last two pages.


What came before 596 that made you feel this way?

[Lukewarm]

Can you be more specific about which posts on page 22 made you feel that his "reaction to the recent pressure on you has felt off tonally, it feels like way more concerned with the votes then I feel like you'd normally respond as town," and why?

[Lukewarm]

but this is tough because I don't think catboi/GL make any sense as scum together and I also find things independently scummy from GL

How is that tough? Just kill the one you suspect more of being scum individually.

its tough because i find them independently scummy but them not being SvS means even if I'm right there's still another scum out there and I just keep going through the playerlist and being like who tf is scum this game

we have:
pooky and meuh the miller claims
luke who claimed pr
ydra who im really stuck with and keep going back and forth on
dunn who I think is playing like town here
and then you and honestly I don't know what to think about you this game Bell but I wouldn't vote you today

Do you feel like you need a team solve in order to commit to a day 1 elimination?

[Lukewarm]

(I also feel like there are easy answers to your proposed dilemma given your reads, like Ydra as a partner to one of them, or me possibly having fake claimed due to pressure)

[Lukewarm]

[Lukewarm]

I think that that I am here

VOTE: sircakez

As my best bet of scum looking to capitalize on the growing Catboi pressure.

I am not opposed to a Ydra elim though. But I think I am opposed to a GL elim, they actually have worked themselves up into my town reads.

[Lukewarm]

@Prism: TY, I wouldn't have known that. Good to know for the future, though might be a mod-by-mod thing.

I am pretty sure that it is a site rule that you cannot post after you request to be replaced (even before the mod posts that they are looking for a replacement) - but it is probably one that most mods don't keep track of.

[Lukewarm]

It has come to my attention that at least one player, Lukewarm, is having trouble accessing the thread to post.

Given the thread access issues and the two replacements, I have decided to add 24 hours to the deadline. More may be added if technical issues persist, but this is not guaranteed.

Please let me know if you are affected so I can avoid prodding you until it is resolved.

The new Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2023-09-07 12:30:00).

I had issues with this for a while earlier today (checking the thread told me I didn't have access to it) but it's resolved for me, could be fixed for Lukewarm also at this point?

Yeah, that was the exact issue i had, but it seems to be fixed now

[Lukewarm]

fwiw with Ydra "softing being a pr" I did not actually get the impresion that she was doing that as I read the thread.

When she said that catboi voting her was a vote for him, I took it as a threat to vote him, but her flavor being catobi would also make that statement make sense I guess.

As soon as people started suggesting that she was venge, I thought that it was a reach, but did not think it productive to say that in thread.

[Lukewarm]

uke vanished off the face of the planet it feels like after like. caring about not being able to see thread

The carboi rep out kinda killed my enthuseasum for the game, but also, you and cakez are my best guesses for a day 1 elim, and are dueling wagons, so don't feel a massive need to throw myself back at the game to shape the thread currently.

Although, I would prefer cakez over you (See my vote).

When I looked back at the people shifting on Catboi, I felt like you were Really Loud And Confident on the scum read on him, in a way that I would not super expect from scum taking advantage -- while Cakez felt like he was trying to manufacture a progression via his "I'm thinking about voting catboi" line, and then his reasons behind that comment did not line up with the timeline of the thread all that well.

[Lukewarm]

When I looked back at the people shifting on Catboi, I felt like you were Really Loud And Confident on the scum read on him, in a way that I would not super expect from scum taking advantage -- while Cakez felt like he was trying to manufacture a progression via his "I'm thinking about voting catboi" line, and then his reasons behind that comment did not line up with the timeline of the thread all that well.

i explained the exact posts and page that my progression on Catboi slot came from - what doesn't line up?

You made a statement about considering voting him.

When asked about it, your post focused on things that happened after your statement.

When asked for time appropriate examples, your reasoning shifted from "overly focused on votes" to "scum indignance at being pushed for something he thinks is NAI" -- which I can see being a shift based on what you can support when put on the spot.

It is not a smoking gun, but it did not feel me with confidence that your thought processes have been internally consistent when remembering what sparked your suspicions. Like when you were writing 674 you were Coming Up with a reason, instead of Remembering The Reason you wrote 596.

[Lukewarm]

Although, I am lowkey debating if I should just Hammer Ydra, so that we can move past day 1.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: ydra

[Lukewarm]

Pagetop hammer!

[Lukewarm]

My target targeted someone other then Bell.

It feels like I found a PR, not scum.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: cakez

[Lukewarm]

I think that mass claim is tomorrow personally.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Cakez
I don't like how he immediately went for Meuh.

That is a really early e-1.

UNVOTE:

its spiritually still there

[Lukewarm]

Why do people object to my Meuh vote

My vote did not have anything to do with Meuh -- but RH raised a good question about your GL end of day yesterday. What has changed from your PoV, to shift Meuh as your top suspect over GL?

[Lukewarm]

if we miss today tommorrow is elo so how do you handle a counterclaim

oh, I did not register that tomorrow would be elo.

I was thinking more about having both track results, and not wanting to out the person the person that I tracked.

[Lukewarm]

I'm alright with mass claiming. Luke should probably claim what they saw first to verify their role.

okay.

I tracked dunn, and he targeted me.

[Lukewarm]

I'm alright with mass claiming. Luke should probably claim what they saw first to verify their role.

i think luke should claim last in case he catches someone in a lie

Oh, maybe I should have fully read before I responded lol

[Lukewarm]

In my mind, seeing dunn targetted me, felt like I found the town doctor -- so I just listened to him

as in luke thinks his target is protecting him

yeah, that was my reaction to the result.

I was not blocked or redirected, so seeing dunn targetting me felt like a town target instead of a scum target.

I did not want to claim my result immediately, to avoid outing Dunn, but when dunn said he was down to mass claim, I accepted it.

[Lukewarm]

BTW, what do you make of Cakez's claim that he's a PR?

I will with hold trying to think through the implications until I get his full claim

[Lukewarm]

I'm seriously doubting Prism puts a Town Beholder in

a micro with only two VTs

a game

ftfy

[Lukewarm]

lol

[Lukewarm]

Because I'm seriously doubting Prism puts a Town Beholder in a micro with only two VTs.

r u telling on yourself homie

Of course not.
I was just checking if you remembered my VT claim.

oof

[Lukewarm]

Wow, how crazy that you are both going to bed when it is between 10:30 PM to 1:30 AM in the US.

What *are* the odds that you would both be going to bed right now?

It might just blow your mind to learn, that I am posting this while lying in my bed for the night too.

[Lukewarm]

Hey RH, if you are scum here, the believable answer would have been "oh, I forgot about Bell"

just like, for future reference or what ever

[Lukewarm]

I do think 1073 is a weird perspective to have if you are a VT. I get that you will say that it slipped your mind but how?

I said 2 VTs as a reaction test to see if scum would take the bait and treat it as a slip, which seemed to have happened.
I feel like it might've gotten a bit out of hand, though.

and if you are town, this is a really bad "bait."

just like, for future reference or what ever

[Lukewarm]

Hey RH, if you are scum here, the believable answer would have been "oh, I forgot about Bell"

just like, for future reference or what ever

But I didn't forget Bell.

If you are scum, you get to lie. that is the neat thing about being scum.

[Lukewarm]

The more truthful answer would've been it was a slip of the tongue that I lied was a reaction test to save face.

yeah.

It was very clear that you were lying about it being a reaction test.

And if you are town, that puts us into a bad position, because the simple answer to seeing someone very obviously lying about something is that they are scum.

[Lukewarm]

I kind of want to believe that the whole series of missteps from RH just now are to bad to truly come from scum, and actually more likely to have come from Embarrassed From Making A Mistake, Town RH.

But I'm gonna think on it. We just started the day, and we still gotta finish mass claim before we have to figure out the elim for the day anyways, so we have time.

[Lukewarm]

I find it really hard to believe that RH9 was reaction testing

He has already said that he was not reaction testing, but

The more truthful answer would've been it was a slip of the tongue that I lied was a reaction test to save face.
-
Because I couldn't explain it.

[Lukewarm]

This seems the a conversation to have after cakez claims

Speaking of

Cakez, you should claim

[Lukewarm]

I feel like that question is unanswerable until we know if cakez us claiming like, full cop or something.

Obviously, from my pov, the tracker is always town. But I don't currently know if I think the rest of the or claims fit in the game with me, until I see the claim

[Lukewarm]

I think both claiming we can't all fit AND claiming that I must be town for balance are confusing claims before we have that info

[Lukewarm]

Did you use your rb last night?

[Lukewarm]

I think if theres a mafia in the three PRs it would have to be Dunnstral for balance reasons

Why would 2 shot tracker + 1 shot doctor make less sense balance wise then 2 shot tracker + 1 shot role blocker?

I understand why you would say I have to be town for balance reasons, but don't understand how you land on the dunn claim vs cakez claim.

[Lukewarm]

I think the only way I live to tomorrow (to bring my second result) is if dunn is town, and 2-shot, and lied about being 1 shot in order to bait the kill into me.

Which is honestly the smart way for him to play being 2 shot.

And kind of smarter then a 1-shot dunn true claiming being 1-shot. (Actually 1-shot dunn should have claimed x-shot).

And dunn should probably not react to this post either.

[Lukewarm]

With that being said, I don't think that dunn is the play for today.

But I don't know who is the play for today. I am a little lost right now.

And I am gonna be super busy today, but I dedicate some time to rereading this game tomorrow

[Lukewarm]

either

1) Cakez just trueclaimed his role as a scum RB

Do you thing scum rb cakez would choose to not roleblock me night 1 after I claimed tracker day 1?

[Lukewarm]

I think the only way I live to tomorrow (to bring my second result) is if dunn is town, and 2-shot, and lied about being 1 shot in order to bait the kill into me.

Which is honestly the smart way for him to play being 2 shot.

And kind of smarter then a 1-shot dunn true claiming being 1-shot. (Actually 1-shot dunn should have claimed x-shot).

And dunn should probably not react to this post either.

Dunn’s reasoning for claiming his shot count is very weak and half of it is literally “I didn’t wanna claim more shots and get into trouble with another protective claim” which is pretty blatantly something scum care a thousand times more about. Scum care more about their claim being good than about Luke actually surviving, and scum would be more likely to expect a protective counter-claim. This is reflected in the way Dunn’s handled the claim, it’s a scum perspective the whole way through.
Town!Dunn cares about diverting the kill from Luke or protecting him from one, scum!Dunn cares about the sanctity of his claim. Dunn isn’t even pretending to have the first mindset.

You are ignoring the possibility that I just outlined in the very post that you quoted.

I could see myself as a 2-shot doctor claiming 1-shot in order to bait the scum kill. If that is true, then he cannot say that out loud when asked why he claimed 1-shot.

If Dunn is town, I think this is a reasonably likely possibility. Dunn is a smart player, and being 2-shot claiming 1-shot is a strategic play I could see him making.

In all honesty, it makes more sense to me then a 1-shot Dunn claiming to be 1-shot.

And again, Dunn can not really engage with this conversation.

[Lukewarm]

The only way that I have a chance to give a result tomorrow, is if we leave Dunn alive.

If he is town, and 2-shot, he baits in the kill.
If he is town, and 1-shot, the scum team might be scared of the 2-shot possibility, and want to secure a night kill elsewhere.
If he is scum, he might leave me alive to make it look like the scum team was scared of his protect.

If we kill dunn, I die in every scenario. I am being treated like confirmed town and have an invest left.

[Lukewarm]

I am also not seeing what scum role dunn would have that would result in him targeting me and playing today the way he did.

The only role brought up for him to have targeted me, was if he was also a tracker. But if that is the case, he would have known i targeted him, and he did not need to ask for my action before he claimed.

[Lukewarm]

I'm alright with mass claiming. Luke should probably claim what they saw first to verify their role.

I don't think scum!tracker!Dunn approaches mass claim this way.

Proving my role, and letting me out I targeted him first, both help my claim more then his.

Scum!tracker!Dunn wants to claim before me, so it looks better for him.

[Lukewarm]

But i can see town!doctor!Dunn, who does not know my alignment, wanting the path that gives the most info about me.

[Lukewarm]

I'm even more suspicious as Luke has claimed he found yet another PR, which, two millers, another visiting PR, Luke and my role seems absurd. We should probably mass claim, someone in the PR claims is lying.

Why were you not questioning the lack of a protective role here, but now thinking the set up needs one?

[Lukewarm]

That doesn't look like a legit setup to me, thus why I think in the PR claims there are scum,

either whoever Luke tracked or in the millers or potentially Luke himself.

Like was said we can check him now with his claimed target.

I'm just trying to follow how you went from, me+you +mystery PR meant the bolded.

To me+you+dunn means we all three need to be town for balance.

Like, doesn't option 1 of the bolded mean you thought that you+me as the towns pr was a reasonable option?

[Lukewarm]

If you think that then it's weird that you are suspecting me after I got tracked to Lukewarm

I think you trueclaimed.
Your play makes only real sense if you really were 1-shot.

I still disagree, because claiming 1-shot while being 1-shot is not a great plan.

But honestly, debating this is anti-town. Let scum figure out if they think he is actually 1 or 2 shot on their own.

[Lukewarm]

@Luke am I crazy? why does it feel like I'm the only person saying both Cakez and Dunn cannot be town

If you ignore the existence of the millers, I think that 2S Tracker + XS Doc + 1S RB can all fit in this game. But with the 2 miller claims added on top, I am less sure.

But I am not sure if that means scum in dunn/cakez or if that means scum in the millers.

[Lukewarm]

I don't think Dunn is a gambity sort of player?
I might be wrong but the way Dunn's been playing makes me think it's unlikely he's 2-shot.
At best, we can hope Cakez is town and has not yet used his rb.

While, this is an anti-town thing for RH to say, I think that if he were scum, this is a post RH would have made in the scum chat and not the main thread.

I have RH down as town currently, and am not interested in his elimination.

I am generally debating between GL/Cakez/Meuh -- but really feel like I need to re-read this game. But I have had family in town, so it just has not happened yet.

[Lukewarm]

Dunn, don't you see?

He thinks you could be a true claiming, scum-aligned, 1-shot doctor (in a game with no Vigilante) who used their 1 shot to protect the town tracker.

[Lukewarm]

I hate it here

[Lukewarm]

I've already said I think one scum is in the VTs and one is in the not-VTs

I think there's a wide difference between VT/miller and VT/PR for team composition, though. The second option is much more likely imo

This sure is a advantageous position for a miller claim to push lol

[Lukewarm]

I started typing that post before Cakez's post, but took an EMBARASSINGLY LONG time trying to remember/come up with the word advantageous. I kept landing on words that were similar, but not quite it.

[Lukewarm]

Dunn, don't you see?

He thinks you could be a true claiming, scum-aligned, 1-shot doctor (in a game with no Vigilante) who used their 1 shot to protect the town tracker.

That is not what I've been saying.
I'm saying that Dunn is probably trueclaiming the 1-shot aspect if he is really a town doc.

Yeah this part from Luke/Dunn confused me, RH9 was pretty clearly saying that Dunn,

if town

, was being fully truthful (which also lines up with my perspective at this point)

fwiw, I understood what RH was saying, and was just being a silly goofy guy with that post.

[Lukewarm]

I think that my number 1 choice for elimination today is Meuh.

But, still have not been able to re-read the game

Life is not giving me the time I usually put towards mafia games atm x.x

[Lukewarm]

lukewarm too busy playing video games to save the village smh

Actually, was too busy going to see an Off-Broadway production of Wicked

[Lukewarm]

lukewarm too busy playing video games to save the village smh

Actually, was too busy going to see an Off-Broadway production of Wicked

true colors shining through

[Lukewarm]

RH has instituted the strongest protection from meta, and that is to post a "Congrats town/scum" for who ever won every game ever, making it impossible to quickly look at his past games.

[Lukewarm]

(That is very likely an exaggeration of reatlity, but I ran into that 3 games in a row when I was looking just now, and it was enough for me to abandon the endeavor)

[Lukewarm]

this feels like that time peta caught RH9 in PYP and he just immediately ghosted after throwing some random non answer at him

viewtopic.php?p=13647180#p13647180

I feel like there was a big difference in the analysis he brought to this game vs that game.

The rep out is kinda... yikes tho.

[Lukewarm]

I am looking back at his iso, and there is an earnestness that I have been getting from him, that makes me want to believe that he is town.

But I am less confident on that read then I was before re-reading his iso.

[Lukewarm]

P-edit: TBH Beholder is a rare enough role that if Dunn actually is it, I'm going to question if it's a trueclaim.

fwiw, Dunn was correct that RH said that Dunn might fake claim being a beholder.

[Lukewarm]

A second pass, and I am thinking more that his iso is worse then it felt when I read through the game in real time.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: RH9 slot

[Lukewarm]

I realized reading back through RH's iso, that while he made a lot of comments this game, it largely ended up being very abstract. Things like doing math on the balance of the game and claims without ever making substantive comments about the actual actions of the players. Or engaging with his image of Dunn as a non-gambity player, but without following through on it with a solid read on Dunn.

And I looked back at a past game we had before, and it has reinforced that thought. Like, where were these kinds of takes this game:

Spoiler:

Subject: Micro 1056: Moderators of the Discord Server [game over]

By the way, the swap reinforced my reads.
I think that Dwlee was distancing from marci during D1 so that when they were apart and marci flipped red, scum could use this flip to make STD misvote.

Subject: Micro 1056: Moderators of the Discord Server [game over]

why do you think dwlee is town

I don't.
I think that they feel pretty non-committal. Other than voicing a suspicion on marci and stating their intention to reaccess Pooky, they have zero reads on us.
They don't even mention me which according to you, Pooky did, and you used to justify your SR on me.

Subject: Micro 1056: Moderators of the Discord Server [game over]

Yeah. My read has evolved. I've been starting to reconsider my read on Dwlee. In a vacuum, they actually seem all right though a bit non-committal as seen in 253.
However, this conflicts with my read on STD, who reads as wrongly tunnelled Town as in his latest stream of posts.
Especially, the amount of insight that he has put in. If I had to bet for scum out of my minigame, I would be forced to say Dwlee despite improvements in my read of them.

A lot of the "takes" he made this game, were him agreeing with things other people said. I think that the closest thing I saw to this in his iso, was him picking up that Cakez dropped his GL scum read over night, but then he completely dropped it after literally just the one post, so :shrug:

[Lukewarm]

Like, just in those three post I grabbed he was pointing out specific thoughts he had on:

A player attempting to distance with another player
The player being overly non-committal with reads
The player having a lack of reads in general
A player appearing to be tunneled town
A player having a lot of insight put into their read.


-----

And this game, it is more just naming off pairs, and saying that they would not work together as a team. For some reason.

[Lukewarm]

Dunn > GL > Pooky > RH9 > Cakez > Lukewarm
My lim preference at the moment

Gonna sound like a broken record since 2 other people beat me to it, but :

Meuh, you have RH on the bottom half of this list, but do not feel the need to comment on the RH e-1? Either way?

[Lukewarm]

RH9 and Meuh are currently the only 2 I would be interested in.

[Lukewarm]

Does the fact that all of [GL, Dunn, Cakez] have voiced a meuh preference, when given a fairly even choice between Meuh and RH, mean that going for RH first the correct choice?

Because from my pov, that means either:
-pooky is scum,
- RH+Meuh is then scum team, so order does not matter, or
-a member of the scum team just choose Meuh when they could have taken RH (and could have framed it as having liked my case, and wanting to work with the Mechanically Town Player )

[Lukewarm]

And I just don't see why any if those 3 would feel like they need to bus here, when RH should look like a pretty good miselim option right now.

Like, their vote puts rh at e-1, while every player other then GL has said they would be down for the RH elim.

And with that many people down for the rh elim, it's hard for any one player to look particularly bad for it

[Lukewarm]

I am lowkey kind of concerned this is the second time GuiltyLion has decided to make his vote at the end based on "the other person is probably not scum because X so I'm gonna vote Y"

Which other vote gave you this impression?

[Lukewarm]

Can 1 person unvote meuh?

Not sure I like Ali having hammer power here

[Lukewarm]

Also, hi Ali!

[Lukewarm]

GL, you making it clear you are keeping up with the thread -- but also ignoring pooky's 1341 sure does make me queasy

[Lukewarm]

@cakez, I mean, I was kind of hoping all of you would weigh in on :

Does the fact that all of [GL, Dunn, Cakez] have voiced a meuh preference, when given a fairly even choice between Meuh and RH, mean that going for RH first the correct choice?

Because from my pov, that means either:
-pooky is scum,
- RH+Meuh is then scum team, so order does not matter, or
-a member of the scum team just choose Meuh when they could have taken RH (and could have framed it as having liked my case, and wanting to work with the Mechanically Town Player )

And I just don't see why any if those 3 would feel like they need to bus here, when RH should look like a pretty good miselim option right now.

Like, their vote puts rh at e-1, while every player other then GL has said they would be down for the RH elim.

And with that many people down for the rh elim, it's hard for any one player to look particularly bad for it

[Lukewarm]

Like, from your PoV Cakez, do you think Meuh is scum, and her partner:


-Dunn, started this Meuh wagon with 1303, while RH was sitting at e-1, and I was leading the charge on RH?
-GL, when forced to choose between partner!Meuh or RH, chose to vote for Meuh (putting her at e-1) while saying zero reasons to think that Meuh is scum, meaning he will get very little credit on a Meuh scum flip?
-Pooky, decided they should double fake claim miller this game?

[Lukewarm]

What info does a Meuh scumflip give you that a RH/Ali scumflip does not give you?

And what info does a Meuh townflip give you that a RH/Ali townflip does not give you?

[Lukewarm]

I feel like I keep raising this point about catboi replacing out being really odd and honestly borderline tactical if he's scum and nobody is really addressing it

I try my best to treat rep outs as NAI.

Catboi was frustrated with this game, and was not enjoying it, so he repped out. And that can be true for either alignment, without it being a "tactical" rep out.

That being said, I also had an immediate thought that this could make him town, so I understand why you feel the way that you do.

When looking at RH, on his own, I think it is scum.

And when I look at Catboi, prior to his rep out, I went from null->lean scum.

[Lukewarm]

I'd vote any of GL/RH9/Meuh

Yeah I'm down to yeet RH9 slot. I think I'm still voting there too?

VOTE: meuh whatever i feel like this is the best shot of hitting scum rn
GL vs RH9 feels like a coinflip

Cakez, walk me though these three posts being back to back in your iso.

Because you go from, they are both even with no preference (but voting RH) -> reaffirming your RH vote -> Meuh is the best elim [to the point of arguing against the RH elim] across these three posts.

[Lukewarm]

It could very easily just be Meuh/RH9 too, that seems like the most obvious explanation to me

Is that because you scumread both players or are you seeing associatives between them

I think Meuh scum doesn't just let her buddy get limmed like that

Meh. A lot of people don't like going hard towards defending their partners, because they think it will make them look worse then it really does most of the time.

Quietly hoping that the wagon will lose steam on its own is not all that uncommon for scum to do imo.

I don't think that RH+Meuh is my top choice atm, but I have not ruled it out.

[Lukewarm]

I think that I am committing to the idea that RH is the better elim.

The transition from RH e-1, to Meuh e-1 was too smooth and easy. Not a hint of resistance from anyone but me - actually, every single one of the potential Meuh partners happily encouraging the Meuh elim > the RH elim.

That transition feels like the scum team either:
-Does not care which one goes over because both are town.
-Prefer the Meuh elim, beacuse Meuh is town.
-Is exactly Meuh+RH, and therefore could not influence the transition basically at all.

None of those worlds have scum meuh / town RH, which makes me think that RH/Ali is the more correct play.

[Lukewarm]

RH9 slot/Cakez doesn't really make sense to me either, Cakez' interactions with both Catboi and RH9 don't look paired at all to me

Why / which ones?

That is a pairing I have toyed around with in my head some recently

[Lukewarm]

How was Wicked Lukewarm

It was SO GOOD!

I had family come in from out of town to go see it, and it was a all around great time.

Would recommend.

[Lukewarm]

it pains me because I feel they're all so scummy but at least some of them have to be town

Mood.

I was steadily talking myself into a RH+Cakez scum team, and then Meuh decided to scum post some more. Which makes it really hard.

[Lukewarm]

Well I switched to Meuh and for a while the thread was dead silent until I asked if there was interest.

The thing that I was seeing in particular, was cakez progression on it.

He was agreeable to the RH wagon when it was building up steam (both 1089 and 1292), but easy to back off of the idea when thread focus shifted else where (1112 and 1330).

Like he wanted to look good any time the RH wagon seemed inevitable, but also happy to see a possibility for him to make it through the day.

Even after you voted Meuh (1303), Cakez did not switch over until after both me (1327) and pooky (1328) both voiced support for the Meuh wagon, and that was when cakez was suddenly switching to your Meuh wagon, AND arguing that that be the wagon that goes through (1330).

That Me->Pooky->

Hamilton Video

-> Cakez sequence of posts felt more like he was responding to the apparent Meuh elim support, then actually having a reason to suddenly think that Meuh is definitavely a better wagon then RH.

Spoiler: that series of posts

RH9 and Meuh are currently the only 2 I would be interested in.

same

VOTE: meuh whatever i feel like this is the best shot of hitting scum rn
GL vs RH9 feels like a coinflip

[Lukewarm]

I'd vote any of GL/RH9/Meuh

And its like, just before this conviction in the Meuh > RH posting, he had them as even.

I am not understanding how cakez got from here, to arguing that Meuh is the definitively better elim.

[Lukewarm]

Meuh's newfound RH scum read does give me the heebiejeebies tho.

But on the other hand, I went through the exact same progression myself.

Arguing that RH seemed town based on his takes this game -> re-reading his iso -> realizing that all of his "takes" were him agreeing with things other people had been saying.

[Lukewarm]

I think your read on RH9 changing is motivated by self preservation rather than reevaluation.

You first went to their iso to quote where you were mind melding, and then only later stated that when you did so you started scumreading them.

Okay but why is that my process here if scum?
This would be logical if when I quoted those posts yesterday, I was sitting comfortable, not likely to be limmed... and then suddenly there was a massive push on me!!!!!
I would then opportunistically push for RH9 being scum to save myself!!!! How evil!!!! How nefarious!!!!!
But that's not what happened? I already had a bunch of votes at that point, the reason for me to push RH9 was already there
Why would I, as scum, be there yesterday and not push RH9, and then today be like "hmm I will invent a scumread here, because I'm definitely more incentivised to do this now than I was before"
Or is your point literally just "omg Meuh had a thought she didn't post???? fake!!!!" did you just see something vaguely odd to poke at and then poked at it? Or do you have an actual reason to think this is scummy in the slightest

During your back and forth with Dunn, were you purposefully ignoring the fact that scum!you would absolutely benefit from developing a scum read of RH in this position?

Or that scum!you could have found it advantageous to call RH town yesterday while watching the elim happen anyways (seeing as how Pooky commented on considering dropping a hammer) in order to be The Person Who Was Right later down the line?

[Lukewarm]

But that's not what happened? I already had a bunch of votes at that point, the reason for me to push RH9 was already there

For the record, you first mentioned the RH mind meld, and went back and found the quotes to back it up, when exactly 1 person (Dunn) was voting you.

Vote 1: 1303
Mindmeld quote pull : 1319
Vote 2: 1330

[Lukewarm]

Wait wtf I thought I was already being wagoned by that point yesterday, it shifted to me really quickly damn

yeah, that

[Lukewarm]

I guess my question is:

Do you think that Scum!Meuh would be calling RH scum here?

IF the answer is yes (it should be) why are you acting like the suggestion that scum!you would need to form a RH scum read here perposterous?

[Lukewarm]

Something in my brain wants to claim that scum!Meuh would be more likely to remember the situation she was in when she made the mind meld claim- because the current state of the thread would likely influenced her course of action

While town!meuh would more easily mix up the time line - because (1)her explaining why she said she mind melded with RH and (2) her wagon forming, would be 2 non-intrinsically linked events that happened in her mind.

(I also don't think that scum!meuh would choose to out and out lie about the order of events)

I don't actually know how much stock I am putting into that take, but it was my first reaction to seeing it her realize that she had the timeline wrong.

[Lukewarm]

I won't be too upset if I am ignored, because I do understand the Meuh suspicions, but I am still leaning towards Ali being the right move for today.

[Lukewarm]

I'm ready to vote Alisae if you're ready for the day to end Luke

Alisae is not at e-1, so that would not end the day.

[Lukewarm]

i somehow missed luke claiming 2-shot tracker in a micro
that is an interesting claim, usually in micros those things are ungated, so the fact that it is gated is interesting.
I hope luke still has 2 shots

Did you seriously think that there was a chance I claimed day 1, and then thought I could afford to hold my shots? Lol

[Lukewarm]

The "oh shit, I think I'm hammered when I am not hammered" is more believable when someone has not pointed out that you are not at e-1 less then a page ago.

[Lukewarm]

1-shot roleblocker is being claimed
why is there so much power in a micro

if a mafia dies on d1, town can essentially get 2 clears for basically free if a kill happens.

ontop of having protection

Why does this thought process not lead you to a scum!cakez conclusion?

(Or me I guess)

[Lukewarm]

@Dunn, Cakez, and GL -- thoughts on Ali's catch up?

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

Something in my brain wants to claim that scum!Meuh would be more likely to remember the situation she was in when she made the mind meld claim- because the current state of the thread would likely influenced her course of action

While town!meuh would more easily mix up the time line - because (1)her explaining why she said she mind melded with RH and (2) her wagon forming, would be 2 non-intrinsically linked events that happened in her mind.

(I also don't think that scum!meuh would choose to out and out lie about the order of events)

I don't actually know how much stock I am putting into that take, but it was my first reaction to seeing it her realize that she had the timeline wrong.

When she voted for RH9, she posted:

VOTE: RH9 I'd rather not die

Doesn't this mean that her vote on RH9 was due to not wanting to be voted out instead of because they started scumreading RH9?

Her vote was not inclucded in my thought.
I was talking about her misremembering the timeline between her wagon forming, and her making 1319. (Which is not a one and done post, but required her to go through RH's iso)

Like the reality of it was, she made 1319 while while she had 1 vote, and RH had just hit e-1. Then her wagon formed. Then she voted RH for survival.

But when she recounted it in 1387, she seemed to think that she was already at e-1 when she wrote 1319.

[Lukewarm]

SirCakez is potentially looking at the game like this:

One mafia in Dunn/Luke/Pooky/Meuh

One mafia in RH9/Guiltylion

And they suspect both RH9 and Guiltylion, but townread Dunn, Luke, and Pooky

My issue, is that if that is his view of the game -- why was he not saying that Meuh was the correct choice when he wrote 1275, and why did he say he was down for the RH elim in 1292.

Nothing about RH and GL being the vt claims, and Meuh being a Miller claim changed between writing those and him switching to pushing for the Meuh elim.

Like, the whole thing that I find suspicious, is that when RH looked inevitable, he was on the wagon, and when he stopped looking like the inevitable elim, his position shifted to Meuh being The Correct Choice. Not the actual stance.

[Lukewarm]

We didn't mass claim on day 1. If I were a mafia tracker/rolecop I'd be looking for other town power roles. It's not true that my role wouldn't have utility.

I generally agree with this. The fact that the scum team did not kill me, feels like they were worried about a protective who would be protecting me for my claim.

With Me+Meuh+Pooky+Ali claimed day 1, if the scum team had a tracker or rolecop, they would be killing AND tracking/rolecopping inside of the rest of Bell/GL/Cakez/Dunn. If you are positing Dunn+Meuh, that means that scum had a 66% chance of finding the protective by shooting+tracking inside this pool.

I don't buy that scum!Tracker or the scum!rolecop would have targeted me night 1.

[Lukewarm]

Because they are not pushing or townreading the players who I feel attention should be focused on. Yes I do think it is scum indicative.

if "attention should be focused on" both Meuh and GuiltyLion, that would be because one of us is scum with Alisae, yes? given that your vote is on Meuh you're saying the team must be exactly Alisae+Meuh? and how come it's scummy to not talk about me in that world, all three players can't all be scum

.
My general impression of the Ali catch up was : "wow, that sure was light on stances." Like, half the posts of her catch up were to talk about mech. Her only posts about

anything

that

anyone

did at

any point

this game being potentially scum indicative, was directed at pooky. Who she called scum before she read the game.

Anti-spew was a thought that crossed my mind.

But I decided to ask other people for their impression before sharing mine, and Dunn had the same take.

[Lukewarm]

UNVOTE:

i dont feel good about this anymore

luke r u sure you want this

Honestly, I am not super confident in my solve. Not because I don't find the ali slot the most suspicious, but I feel like I have too few town reads this game, which does not feel great.

[Lukewarm]

I think the Meuh/Dunn interactions are much more likely to be S-S given how decisively Meuh was pushing Dunn earlier yet how much that's tapered off (despite her still claiming to scumread him).

I lowkey think that if Meuh is scum, then Dunn is The Least Likely Partner on the player list.

Dunn voting Meuh, when he was already on an e-1 RH wagon was completely unforced. A lot of people had voiced suspicions on Meuh, and her wagon gaining momentum was not unexpected. Hell, 8 hours before I voted RH, this was my own stance

I think that my number 1 choice for elimination today is Meuh.

Furthermore, if he WAS partners with Meuh, I don't think he posts 1326, double checking if anyone wants to elim Meuh -- he just takes the opportunity to move his vote back off of her "because of the lack of interest."

[Lukewarm]

At the moment, the only person I would consider moving my vote off of Ali fo, is to Cakez.

I find him scummy, and after Ali's 1428, I am further questioning if my role + his role can even fit in the game.

[Lukewarm]

Open question to the Player List:

If you were choosing between only Catboi/RH/Ali Slot and Cakez, which would you choose?

[Lukewarm]

yeah the self vote makes me want to hammer but not yet like closer to deadline

Spoiler:

I wish we would hammer I don't think there's much more solving to be done here without a flip

close to hammering alisaee

Okay if y'all think it's Ali/me then let's elim Ali pls at this point I just want flip
I should have just hammered last night but I was baked and got paranoid it was the wrong move

[Lukewarm]

Ggwp.

I was better with my track then I was with my votes this game lol.

Night 1 was on Dunn and Night 2 was (supposed to be) on GL.

Although the track on Dunn really messed up my read there. Him targeting me (and the way he responded to me tracking him) took him out of my scum pool

[Lukewarm]

Second,

this is the only post in the entire game worth noting

you know what would be wild

if there's a scum tracker and town tracker and they targetted each other

as in luke thinks his target is protecting him but really his target is tracking him tracking his target

truly some law school shenanigans

what the fuck

please note that dunn hasn't claimed yet, luke hasn't outed his track, not the target not that it was to luke

what the fuck

the bear is actually magical

legitimate god-tier prediction

Seeing that pooky just straight called the night actions, based just on me saying "I think I found another pr, not scum" is really impressive

[Lukewarm]

I hope you think the idea was interesting and aren't too frustrated. I really wanted to make claims and the dayplay around them matter, while still giving night actions and mechanical choices huge gravitas. I like to think this game used "red herrings" in a much more fun and engaging way than other notorious Normals that seemed to punish players for even trying, but perhaps you disagree, and I am open to feedback if that is the case.

I quite liked the set up, double millers and all.

[Lukewarm]

i should've just hammered dunnstral but somehow my lizard brain paranoia wanted to clear cakez first to get it nailed down I feel like a dope arghlegrok

thanks for modding Prism - I had a ton of fun playing

By that point, the only possible partner for cakez was Dunn, which I did not see as a real possibility. I was treating you and cakez bot as confirmed town in the end.

But I also got it wrong (my solve was GL+Meuh), so don't listen to me lol.