Micro 324: Bridge Mafia (D3, 6/9 alive)

[RedCoyote]

VOTE: ArcAngel9

Don't vote Mala! She's too good to lose if she's town.

[RedCoyote]

Why don't you?

Instead of egging him on

I'm not egging him on - I totally agree that

if

you're town you are too good to lose.
And, I would never vote for you without any evidence Mala

There's too much emotion/paranoia here. I'm referring to the gigantic word 'if' (as if anticipating someone is going to miss it and take him the wrong way), the over-the-top sucking up to Mala, the reference to "evidence" (implies that he'd need a cop report or something similar to vote Mala?) and the wink.

UNVOTE: ArcAngel9; VOTE: Wolfy

[RedCoyote]

Redcoyote, that same post had my eyebrows raised a little too, but Wolfy's next post wasn't bad.

*shrug*

I didn't have a problem with 24 either, or else I'd have mentioned it. But that doesn't excuse his 19. In this scenario, it makes no difference to me whether he voted Mala or not. I care about the way he worded that particular post.

---

I'm leaning early town on Wolfy due to him wanting to get out of RVS. I also thought by 'evidence', he meant 'reasons' which again links to getting out of RVS.

I didn't interpret it that way. The way I saw it, he scrambled to defend himself, nothing more. I saw nothing that suggested he was "wanting to get out of RVS". He specifically said he was going to withhold his vote for an indeterminate amount of time so that he didn't prolong it, but so what? I'd expect anyone to do that.

---

What a useless post 29 is, jklash.

---

still here. the bird's still scum.

So what about me, Egg, insanity and Wolfy? Chopped liver?

---

I agree that my giant if post shows emotion/paranoia RedCoyote - but why is it scummy?

It all boils down to the fact that scum are more concerned about how they appear to town; town are more concerned about finding scum.

Anything that reads as the former to me reads scummy, and anything that reads as the latter for me reads townie.

This is an okay response. Still happy with my vote though.

---

Lol what a clown trying to rile up the newbies.

That's a pretty strong statement, Egg. Or are you being sarcastic?

---

LOL
You should have let lucky react to it. Huh!!!!

<3 <3 <3

AA is the best.

---

trying too hard to endear yourself all the while awkwardly avoiding commenting on anything
you're scum and you don't know how to start a game as scum. it's OK, lucky. i'm the same way

This is a reasonable point.

---

Lucky was really joking imo also he didn't even vote me so your argument for voting him is kinda invalid.

But did you see Lucky's vote?

---

nah, you said something about selling you on a

lynch

, which is a bizarre angle to take.

You said, and I quote, "the bird's still scum". What "angle" did you expect her to take from that? That you read him as obvtown?

i've explained this, please read

Don't get snippy with insanity because you're being unclear. You're the one trying to play the Staeg card here. No one is a mind reader.

underlying (annoying and fallacious) assumption: scum will be scumhunting and town will want to fuck around

Did he assume every player would play like this or just him?

---

Mala's questioning of Antihero is probably the most awkward I've ever seen Mala. Not quite sure what to make of it. But I kinda feel like as scum she wouldn't question a player like Antihero. Mixed feelings there. Slight town lean I think.

Your last sentence actually took me aback. I thought you were fixing to say that you were leaning scum on Mala. I like both of these points though. I agree with you on both accounts.

[RedCoyote]

Also... Happy Birthday, Mod!

Thanks!

[RedCoyote]

Antihero is not outspoken and influential. He is, in fact, very mean and always distrusts me even though I am an angel that would never do anything to harm him. <3

[RedCoyote]

so i couldn't have been that unclear.

Fair enough, but when someone asks someone else to elaborate on something, it grinds my gears when they blow them off like that. Then again, insanity was already on the wagon with you, so I guess I can't be too critical of you here.

wait a second... i thought you just finished telling me that mala's questioning was all good in the neighborhood and i'm the one who's being unclear and huffing the dipshit glue.

I think she asked a fair question. I don't necessarily think it was anything super insightful. I was more perturbed at your response than I was enthralled with her question. In any case, what I meant to tell Egg was that I ultimately agree with him and that Mala looks more town for it than not.

---

Redcoyote, nah I'm pretty sure that's what Lucky was trying to do. Looked like an "lolreactions" post.

Are you intending to follow up on it? Do you want to know if others feel the same way?

I wouldn't use the word "mean", but even if I would, that would make the point I'm trying to make.

I may have been being just a touch facetious.

---

So "scrambling" to defend oneself is scummy?

Not necessarily, but, as I explained to Egg, that's not why I chose to vote you.

I don't understand why you quoted that line but you didn't read and/or comment on the line a bit further down where I answered your question as to why 19 was scummy.

---

I don't think that someone would think this much about their trolling to point where they are self conscious and feel to go over the top.

Scum would.

It sounds like some of you have played with antihero before, can someone tell me if this type/tone of posting is typical of him?

Honestly, he seems like a different player everytime I play with him. I would call this atypical, but I think he's pretty good about not conforming to one set style.

[RedCoyote]

Do you think that Lucky is doing this?

Hard to say. As I mentioned earlier, I think Antihero makes a good point against him, but I'm not yet sold on Lucky being scum. I could see Lucky in either light right now.

[RedCoyote]

So the reasonable options at this point are insanity, Lucky, and Wolfy. Frankly, I'm content with lynching any of those players.

I'm concerned that neither Mala nor Wolfy have votes down. Are they biding their time for another wagon to spring up?

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, I mean, Wolfy is my number 1 right now. Those that are advocating insanity/Lucky (or anyone else) aren't doing enough to get me over to their camp, so my vote is going to stay where it is for the time being.

[RedCoyote]

Can you remind me of the Wolfy case? I'll sheep it later if I like it.

Sure, I'll give you where I'm coming from.

19 - I think we both agreed that this post raised our eyebrows on Wolfy. You thought that 22 was good enough to get you looking elsewhere, but I contend that 22 did not address the issue I had with 19 to begin with. The problems with 19 are that he's overly concerned with Mala misinterpreting him. Wolfy doesn't even dispute that this post comes across as paranoid. The telling signs: the gigantic, italicized word 'if', the sucking up to Mala, the reference to evidence (this was explained off by jklash, I think, as just needing reasons for for voting Mala, but it still strikes me as a weird way to phrase it... it fits with the pattern of the post in that Wolfy really, really, really doesn't want Mala to think he'd ever do anything to cause her problems) and the winky face. Wolfy says this is all an attempt at innocent humor. Maybe that's the case, but I think there's more to this post than just goofing around. He's giving off scummy vibes. You be the judge.

38 - Notice specifically in this post that Wolfy asks me to explain to him why his post 19 is scummy. Nothing else in this post stands out for me, but just remember this because it's going to come back up in a bit.

62 - He essentially calls out AA and Antihero as the scumteam in this game. AA goes off on him for this. I'm don't really have a problem with this post, but this will come back up later, so just remember that he does this for now and I'll bring it back up in a minute.

65 - This is my post, I just want to point out that here I tell Wolfy specifically what he was asking for in post 38. I explain to him why his post 19 is scummy.

75 - This is an important Wolfy post that ties into 65 and 38. Wolfy specifically quotes something unrelated to my suspicions of him. He quotes me classifying his post as a scramble to defend himself. In retrospect that probably had more of a negative connotation to it than I meant to convey, but the point is that I just meant to say that 24 was neutral for me. It didn't strike me as townie or scummy. I explained this to you in my 65. In any event, the important thing to take away from this post is that Wolfy completely ignores my explanation as to why I saw 19 as scummy despite the fact that he asked me straight up, "Why [is post 19] scummy?" This is important. It shows that he doesn't really care to know why I read him as scum. He doesn't really care to engage me. I would imagine he just wants me to go away. Instead he conflates me saying that his post is scrambling with my explanation as to why 19 was scummy. I know this is a bit in depth, but I want you to understand my thought process. 75 is possibly the scummiest post in the game so far, but it's hard to understand why without the proper context.

91 - Wolfy unvotes without revoting. This is bad by itself, but it's doubly bad in Wolfy's case. Remember his 62? Wolfy essentially said that AA and Antihero were the scumteam. This implies that they are equally scummy, right? Well, if he's going to unvote AA at this juncture, why not vote Antihero? He doesn't even mention Antihero here, even though presumably Antihero is his biggest scumread at this point (given the unvote of AA and him calling AA more likely town than scum).

Since 91, Wolfy has yet to vote someone or effectively push/interrogate another player. He has just now weakly thrown a vote on me to save face, but it's only after he has been called out for not voting anyone.

Sorry if that's a bit long, but it pretty much covers everything I have against Wolfy right now. Here's a tl;dr version:

• Too paranoid. Buddies up to Mala.
  
• Lack of scumhunting. Only real scumhunting was against AA/Antihero, which he drops fairly quickly after AA pressures him.
  
• Lack of follow through. He asks me to explain why I think he's scummy. When I answer, he tries to manipulate my response instead of consider it and/or engage me on it.
  
• Lack of vote. Players that do not vote should be red flags all day, everyday. Town should always be trying to use their vote to pressure players.

---

ok. so what would you call jklash still having his RVS vote on Egg?

Fair point. I didn't realize that. I was just noticing the players that are not voting despite having clear things they suspect.

I won't cry if jklash gets lynched either. Really the only players I actively want to go into D2 at this point are myself (of course), Egg, AA and you. Everyone else I think I could be convinced of supporting for a lynch.

---

Nah it was just an RVS vote. I guess I never unvoted him.

UNVOTE:

This is baaaaaaaaaaaaad.

So, let me get this straight, right after I get through saying that Mala and Wolfy are scummy for not having a vote down at this late date and Antihero chiming in saying that you should be in that group of people that aren't voting (in your case, not voting "seriously"), you decide to unvote without voting someone?

This screams of, "Oh, crap, my name came up in a bad way, I better try to do something that makes me look good".

As I told Wolfy, one of the few things I like to point to as a way to differentiate scum from town is whether or not I think a player is actively trying to hunt scum/get someone lynched. If they are not doing this at all times (with some leeway for the start of the game, of course), then they are suspect.

In short, you are doing this. This post is not good.

[RedCoyote]

I know why you are

reading

me as scum - it's because I'm an easy mislynch in this low activity game.

If that's what you thought, why did you bother asking me? Also, this is just another version of the newb card. Also there's no such thing as an easy mislynch. You know how I know? Because I'm the one pushing it without anyone biting so far.

how you could misread such an obvious town player

So you're an easy mislynch and an obvious town player at the same time? How come those two don't contradict?

75 was a response to aa9's 73. It had nothing to do with you.

You're telling me that this:

• I'm leaning early town on Wolfy due to him wanting to get out of RVS. I also thought by 'evidence', he meant 'reasons' which again links to getting out of RVS.

  I didn't interpret it that way. The way I saw it, he scrambled to defend himself, nothing more...

  So "scrambling" to defend oneself is scummy?

has nothing to do with me? The post where you quote me and use this strawman that implies I think the scrambling was what was scummy?

and you may get sheeped on that view - see what I did there

Yes, lol.

I'm sure you could make a case for vote hopping being very scummy play.

I could, but I haven't and won't.

What's weak about it.

It's opportunistically timed for one. I don't think you're enlisting many followers for two. It betrays your previous reads for three.

but of course scum know this. So to look as townie as possible they take the lead in the scum hunting and drive wagons on obvious townies.

But of course the scum know that you know they know this. So to look as townie as possible they take a backseat to scumhunting and follow wagons on obvious townies.

Care to rotate the glasses of wine one more time?

---

#11 - I know it's RVS so I didn't think much of it at the time but asking "Am I doing it right?" already shows self-consciousness.

This seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Same with your comment on 39.

#46 - What seemed to be the most scummy for me. The bracketed section essentially translates to "Did I react the way you wanted?" which is again self-conscious. Scum would tend to be self-conscious because they have to make sure everyone perceives that their actions are town-like. This is different to townies who know that they are town and therefore don't need to be concerned with appearances.

Also, Antihero points out that Lucky is trying too hard to be friendly and endearing while avoiding making comments 'on anything.' Which is characteristic of scum who do not know how to start a game as scum.

This is probably the best point in favor of scumLucky. I understand it. I'm not as convinced as you and Antihero are though. All in all, he would not me my favorite for a lynch here. This really seems like the only point against him, and this is a coinflip, honestly. I could see him doing this as scum or town.

---

jklash: I should actually read what I've written - if I could edit it I would! I meant slight leaning town.

Any particular reason why? I don't recall you mentioning him before, and I don't recall anyone else standing up for him.

---

In the first part you say I did something that made me look bad because I didn't vote someone but in the second part you I did that to make myself look good. Why would I think it would look good to unvote when you were saying people were scummy for not having a vote down?

One (or both) of two reasons:

1) You didn't read those posts.
2) You didn't agree with those posts.

So now it can't be number one, I can only assume it's the second option, yes?

[RedCoyote]

Can't hunt scum with prodding a few eggs.

:thumbs up:

I just hope the Mod doesn't prod hard enough to cause a great fall. You know, in case Egg is sitting on any walls.

---

Reason why i haven't voted is because my scum reads are mostly gut area more than developed into something solid. I have some townreads and actually want to work with them.

And how, pray tell, are you intending to develop those gut reads without using your vote? Also, you expect to "work with" your townreads in less than two days?

You need to have a vote down, Mala. This is now scummy.

---

wolfy lynch is suboptimal

It'd have been nice if you could've contributed. Are we (Wolfy and I) both town?

vote jklash. it'll be fun.

Why did jklash vote Lucky instead of hammering/threatening to hammer Wolfy?

---

a self hammer with town flip might bring some clarity as to redCoyote's motivations...

Don't even joke about this. The hammer vote is the most important vote on the wagon. The worst thing, short of losing a PR, to happen to the town is having a player self-vote. It deprives us of knowledge. The scum don't have to risk hammering anyone because pitful, self-centered townies do it for them. Also, I hate to crash your suicidal fantasies, but even if you were to lynch yourself, players aren't going to be singing your praises from the hilltops and mountains tomorrow, ruing the day they ever thought to pressure the poor, beautiful Wolf. They aren't going to join hands and encircle the obviously villainous Coyote and dedicate the game to you. First off, I'm town. Second, you will be hated and despised by nearly everyone here for acting childish and arrogant with your vote. Third, I very much doubt I'll be lynched tomorrow regardless of what happens today. So, you know, buck up, son. It's a game. Play to your win condition and help your team instead of throwing a pity party. Sometimes you get lynched on D1. It happens to everyone.

Mod

, would it possible to get an extension and/or replacement of AA?

She has 3.5 hours to respond to the prod before I start replacements hunting.

[RedCoyote]

Yes, that would be the implication. Otherwise I'm sitting here ready to join you.

Also, I no longer want to lynch insanity today, I think. I liked her last couple of posts.

Also, also... Mala lynch sounds really good right about now.

[RedCoyote]

Hmm, yes, that's actually a good answer.

Let me think on it.

[RedCoyote]

To be honest. I think I may like an egg lynch rather than that wolfy wagon that just popped up.

Why would you do this? No one has shown interest in lynching Egg today. When you posted this, there was, like ~36 hours until the deadline. I don't mind people voting against the grain, but they better do it with time left in the day and/or they better be prepared to push it hard and convincingly. I see none of this here. This is just as lazy as your previous posts. Also, I seem to remember you mentioning Egg was a potential scum candidate for you, but let's remind the viewers at home exactly what you said:

• 8. Egg Maybe scum? Very little vote in his posts. Seems less like hunting and more like coasting. (more so in null area~)

You undercut this two different times. First you qualify it by saying "maybe". Yeah, of course, "maybe", Mala. Maybe anyone is scum. Also, you close your Egg read up with "more so in null area~", so, uh, I guess he's not a scumread but a nullread then? This is just so weak. I also don't like that jklash, a perfectly fine candidate to support for lynch today in addition to a player that you have marked down as "probably scum" is now being ignored by you at the last minute.

This doesn't smell right. I do not like the relationship between Mala and jklash right now at all.

I think I've heard just about enough for today.

UNVOTE: Wolfy; VOTE: jklash12

[RedCoyote]

There's just no need for the unpleasantness here.

There's no need to threaten us with trolling here either. There's no possible way that hammering yourself will help the town if you are town in this game. There's very little benefit to hammering yourself as scum either, and definitely not in this situation. Someone needs to talk sense to you, and if that has to be me, then so be it. I take no pleasure out of being unpleasant with you, but I certainly won't kowtow to you just because you threaten to troll us by playing against your win condition.

but is scummy?

Completely different situations and you know that. There's nothing wrong with using emoticons, Wolfy. You know that's not the reason I voted you.

---

He sets himself up to let others "convince" him that I am scum and then ride the wagon.

lolwut

So are you implying your Lucky vote was a trap?

---

Anybody mind giving me an info on the theme of the game? Like the open explanation of the theme (bridge mafia)

It's based on the popular card game. I know very little about the card game, unfortunately. Maybe the Mod will teach us all after the game is over.

[RedCoyote]

@Redcoyote:

Do you think you can get a jklash lynch today. Imagine we get him to claim at the nick hour and he claim PR. Who are we going to turn the wagon on then? And maybe, we would not have enough time to turn the wagon and NL becomes a result?

Well, a lot of that depends on you, my friend. You replaced into a good slot, imo. I thought AA was playing very townie. Right now it looks like you can push either Wolfy or jklash to a claim, but I would recommend jklash at this point.

I would also support a Mala wagon, but I'm much less confident in getting that wagon to gain enough traction than I am jklash.

---

life is a cruel bitch. i understand.

You may not be as understanding if you saw this post. I love AA with all my heart, but personally I don't think I can continue to excuse her going forward.

who would vote a mala wagon?

*hand*

3) she never actually works with her townreads. coyote and i are voting jklash, but she still foregoes a wolfy or jklash vote for an egg vote. the sentence about "working with townreads" is just rhetoric to appear town.

A million times this. I mean, it's like 147 isn't even the same player as Mala. If you were to strip the name off that post, you'd be hardpressed to assign that post to Mala based on the things she's said succeeding it.

---

Egg and Jklash are on a similar list of a read because their content is very similar other than Jklash had a sticky RVS vote.

What I cannot comprehend is how you're acting so ambivalent toward jklash right now. Actions speak louder than words. You called jklash "probably scum". Two of your three townreads are voting jklash. Why are you not interested in supporting this wagon? It's like pulling teeth to get you to even acknowledge it when you should be fully behind it.

---

Well, mala, i am not scumreading you. I just don't understand you reason for voting someone and i can't see your thought process.

Based on what I've read of you so far, Wolfy appears to be your only scumread, yes?

---

What trap could there have been?

He wanted to throw a "naked vote" out there to see who may criticize him for it is how I'm interpreting it. I think he's full of it, but I understand his argument.

---

I have never been scum before and I know if I was scum I would be trying a lot harder to look town than just lurking/coasting.

But maybe you'd only say you'd do this as scum to throw us off if you are actually scum.

Want to keep playing the WIFOM game, or can we stop it here?

---

You're starting to look rather scummy to me, cookies not withstanding.

And why is that? Because he's pushing a wagon that coincidentally happens to be on you? It's scummy for players to be voting you?

---

The whole change vote on jklash is this supposed scumslip and this sentence only?

It's very odd. I just went back through Wolfy's ISO, and this is actually the first time Wolfy has even mentioned jklash other than a reads list.

It's weird, it's like Wolfy and Mala are both going out of their way to ignore jklash. I think it's probably worse in Mala's case, but I would be satisfied with lynching any of them.

That above said, Wolfy's 231 is very town looking except for the fact that he didn't explain the "scumslip" comment.

---

It's a scum slip for me because as I have never been scum I would say "I have never been scum"
To say "I have never been scum before" implies that he is scum this time.

I disagree with this, but I'm glad you explained it. This actually sounds reasonable.

[RedCoyote]

Can we go back to lynching Wolfy? I like that better.

What about the beautiful (but deadly) Malakittens?

[RedCoyote]

Mod

, it looks like you still have AA in the last VC.

Fixed, thanks.

So we've heard why enomis doesn't want to vote jklash, but I'm still unsure what's keeping Mala/Lucky/Egg from coming aboard.

[RedCoyote]

Okay, before anyone speculates as to the NK, I'm going to arrogantly claim that it's likely I was able to successfully dodge it. My role is a two-shot commuter. I had suspected that I may be shot overnight. Well, I suspected that it would probably be either me or enomis, and I don't know whether or not enomis is even town. I didn't think Antihero would be shot at due to the hammer. The rest of the players all had at least some suspicion on them and/or were probably a bit less prolific than I was yesterday.

There's another thing that now needs to be brought up. The Mod has made it a point to retroactively change the flavor to jklash's death scene. Given that this is a themed Micro, I think it's pertinent we try to speculate a bit as to what exactly her flavor means to imply. I know very little about Bridge that hasn't already been touched on. There are four seats, North/South/East/West. NS are partners and EW are partners, I believe. And, as the Mod stated, you are trying to take tricks to meet a bid.

I'm going to go ahead and fully claim since I see no point in holding anything else back at the point for me. I do not know -- and would probably advise against on a general level -- if anyone else should claim their role flavor. I do not know if that will help us scumhunt at all unless someone is more familiar with Bridge. My role flavor is Jacoby Transfer. I tried reading both of the articles for this as well as Negative Double on Wikipedia, but they're both kind of over my head and it's hard for me to really apply it to the game.

So, I don't know. I think we already touched on this a little bit when enomis joined us. Maybe this is just a dead end if no one can really explain it to us in layman's terms.

One last thing I want to say, it's important to understand that jklash was a Neighbor and not a Mason. This clears some things up for me as to why yesterday dragged a bit, but it doesn't really mean anything because jklash's Neighbor could ultimately still be scum. In essence, let's not be tempted to give anyone a pass just because they claim Neighbor with jklash.

VOTE: Malakittens

Mala has been rather meek and scatterbrained this game. I think she's our best bet for scum going into today. Wolfy is doing better for me. Egg and Lucky are both falling into scum territory.

[RedCoyote]

Wait, how much time was left? I didn't really examine in that closely. Let me look it over a bit.

[RedCoyote]

Hmmm... UNVOTE: Malakittens

I'll withhold my vote until I hear more from other players.

[RedCoyote]

RedCoyote, I'm personally more worried about Antihero's unvote than his hammer.

Why is that, Egg? Antihero was very directly going after Mala most of D1, especially in the last 2-3 days. I agreed with him, too. Mala did not look good at all yesterday, but some of the things she said does make sense now in light of jklash's flip.

I dunno. I haven't voted him, have I?

This sounds defensive, specifically the rhetorical "have I?" part.

Maybe he's jk's scum neighbor and didn't want to give jk a chance to claim because of the site meta of 1T1S neighbors.

Perhaps, yeah. But why would jklash not show some antagonism earlier? I mean, I think if jklash and Antihero were neighbors, jklash would be much more vocal against Antihero. It just doesn't seem like a fit to me.

---

I never softclaimed jack.

Lol, you softclaimed big time, babe. You did it before I got a chance to post in the thread again and subtly tell Antihero to back off, but I know you know what we're talking about.

---

jklash didn't give one or acknowledge the fact that he was asked for one even though he was at L-1. that's claim stalling and it should be met with swift death.

And here's Antihero channeling his inner-DGB and making me feel all warm and fuzzy about him again. This is exactly right. jklash should've known he was on the precipice.

Also, enomis, this is an answer to your 283.

---

You are telling us you were trying to draw the nightkill?

How strange that Wolfy, Egg, Antihero and I all claimed to have noticed this softclaim that Mala flatly denies!

---

I'm not really fakeclaiming per say. Just fake breadcrumbing and there's a difference between the two. One is detrimental to the town and the second if it's done right indeed helps the town.
I never said fake claiming.

Look, we shouldn't split hairs here. Breadcrumbing/softclaiming/fake claiming... you're conflating all these terms when they're really different concepts. You want to know what I think? I think you purposefully dropped that softclaim to a) survive D1 in case the town started to turn on you and b) play dumb after the fact and say you were just "trying to draw the nk" in case anyone called you on it later.

---

But what do you mean by this clearing up why yesterday was dragging?

I think it's likely the other neighbor was not interested in voting jklash. I don't want to say too much/rolefish, however. Does that make more sense?

@Mala. So, you're saying that you weren't softclaiming and you also weren't fake-softclaiming?

This sentence sums it up beautifully, lol.

VOTE: Malakittens

[RedCoyote]

Also, RedCoyote, you described Mala's play somewhere as scummy due to being "scatterbrained". Is this different from your experience of how she would play if she were town?

Mala may never again live up to the enormous townmeta bar I have set for her, lol. Seriously though, her play in this game was, without question, the best vigilante play I've seen on this site. That post in particular was sensational. Bear in mind she had just replaced into a 45+ page game. Here's what I said about her at the time,

Get this: she replaces in at night, shoots one scum based on her read of the game, and then hammers the last one in her first post in the game. How's that for efficiency? How many of y'all have seen someone effectively kill two scum in with one post in the game? That's an unheard of level of success.

That said, I'm not much for meta. I'm judging her on her play this game, any meta read I may have of her is just an ancillary factor. I think this whole question of whether or not she faked a softclaim, her argument of the semantics of what she did... this sounds scummy to me. If I'm a townie that's faking a breadcrumb or something of that nature, you better believe I'm going to have a very clear, very straightforward answer for doing it. I think Mala would have as well.

[RedCoyote]

I'm not too content with Mala vs Wolfy... I'd rather have Mala vs Egg? Lucky/Mala, what do y'all think of that? Mala, you seemed to completely trash your Egg suspicions you had earlier in the game. Lucky, you've been tunnelling since you moved to Wolfy yesterday despite all of the stuff that has happened in the interim. Why?

I'll answer other posts more directly tomorrow.

[RedCoyote]

By "Mala vs Wolfy" I mean of course those two wagons competing for the lynch.

[RedCoyote]

Sorry guys, preoccupied lately. Will make a good read through later but my skim and the current Mala wagon tells me I need to get back on my day 1 wagon.

The Wolfy wagon has only decreased in value over time, not increased. Wolfy's posts have been consistently better. I especially like how he's went from throwing token strawmen at his detractors to sensibly disagreeing with them while reading the thread for himself. I think the jklash wagon was a good example of that, even if it may not look like it at first glance. I believe Wolfy took the time to analyze that wagon independently. It's easy to dismiss him as jumping on due to opportunism. I don't think that's the case, and he's been able to successfully argue with me as to why it wasn't, I think.

This is a lazy vote, Lucky. You're becoming more and more useless over time. As far as I'm concerned, you're a better lynch than Wolfy at this point.

---

RedCoyote, I feel like I explained my thoughts on Antihero's unvote pretty clearly.

Explain again or point me to a post, please. If I asked you, it's because I haven't understood it well enough.

---

Don't get why people think anti-hero is so town. Could people explain to me again?

Antihero's explanation of his jklash hammer is really good stuff. You should try it sometime. We also have a common foe in Mala at the moment. I see scumMala very clearly here in her strange attempts at softclaiming/claiming/breadcrumbing and then denying that she did it. Something is not right about this slot.

---

Honestly I dont think she'd back off the softclaim as scum.

Well, I don't think she'd do it as town, so now we're back at square one, yeah?

The only thing you can trust a townie to do in this game is to be honest about their motivations. If a player is ever unclear about their motivations, you lynch it and you lynch it hard. Mala can't even make up her mind whether or not she's denying the softclaim.

Why not Insanity?

insanity is town for me now. The only point you have thrown against her today is that she undercut her L-1 vote. I thought that was a relatively weak argument. You've been relatively weak in giving your opinion about the Mala situation as well. This is really not something that I think you can be undecided on. It's pretty clear cut. Either what she did was town or what she did was scum. You're trying to half-assed call her town, I think, and I do not appreciate it.

As a matter of fact, I don't think either you or Lucky have flatly stood behind Mala yet today. You two are her de facto biggest supporters now, after all.

In any event, insanity has also given the most succinct explanation of the Mala wagon to date. I do not think they're scum together, and I definitely think Mala is scum.

Town fake crumbing to draw a NK is really that hard to believe?

According to Mala, she isn't "fake crumbing". She denies it was a crumb altogether.

If I check back in a day or two and Insanity doesn't have votes, Ill get on Wolfy.

Because maybe the case for scuminsanity will make itself?

[RedCoyote]

Even if I approach the game from a PoE perspective. I seen Antihero, enomis, Wolfy and insanity as town right now. Granted, I'm probably wrong on one of those, but I doubt two scum are in that group.

One scum has to be between Mala, Egg and Lucky for me.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: I

see

Antihero...

[RedCoyote]

Okay, Egg, let me give you the benefit of the doubt. Could you sell me on a different read in a hypothetical situation where I just replaced in? I'm open to hearing the game from a different vantage point, but I'm not really sold on the way you've framed your insanity case so far. You seem straight-up torn about Antihero. I guess townMala would be your strongest read at the moment, yes?

[RedCoyote]

No worries, Egg. Just vote sheep me and we'll move onto tomorrow. No one on the Wolfy wagon seems particularly enthused by it anyway.

I'm disappointed, enomis. Take care.

[RedCoyote]

That was the idea, yes. I have no reason to see this day go forward if neither you nor Lucky can be bothered to show any passion behind y'alls reads.

That on top of the fact that I think the most likely scumpairing at this point is you and Mala, so it would only serve to help me read the game more clearly if one of you hammered the other one.

[RedCoyote]

Happy birthday RedCoyote!

Thanks, insanity!

---

I have to say that the play style is very similar to this game - but then maybe you're good enough to play same style as town and scum.

Very much so, Wolfy. Don't underestimate the Kittens.

---

It's like anything I say you aren't goin to take into consideration. 'Oh the play is similar to here, but you'll be able to maybe mirror that between both alignments so nope not unvoting!'

But he's right! I mean, I'm not going to go Antihero on you here, but all meta is, at its core, straight-up WIFOM anyway. "I played this way as town before, so that proves I will do it again".

---

That is much more subtle than what happened here...
Especially with hindsight when he turns out to be scum...

Bingo. Yeah, Wolfy is definitely town. I noticed this as well.

[RedCoyote]

I actually agree with Mala in that I'm confident that the enomis/AA slot is town. If we get a strong town player, I'm definitely excited to hear what they have to say.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, maybe kunkstar and penguin will crossreplace! I'd love that.

[RedCoyote]

I keep forgetting Lucky is even in this game. Is that good or bad?

[RedCoyote]

I haven't read all the posts yet (doing that now), but Antihero, quick question re: Lucky/Egg scumteam:

Why did neither one of them hammer Mala under the pretense of either, "oh, RC/antihero/insanity/wolfy changed my mind... Mala is obvscum" or "eh, RC/antihero/insanity/wolfy aren't changing their minds, so I guess we'll get finish this day off"?

[RedCoyote]

Kalimar's entry post is fantastic. I couldn't sum the game up better myself. I'd spend more time dissecting it, but there's little that I disagree with. I just don't see the value in doing so.

I'm certainly open to lynching Egg today. My main concern with doing so, however, is VCA. Like insanity, I do not think Egg/Lucky are scum together. I think the most likely scumteams are Mala/Egg or Mala/Lucky. Evidence to show you in favor of this argument:

RedCoyote (L-5):
Malakittens (L-5):
insanity018 (L-5):
enomis (L-4): jklash12
Wolfy (L-3): Lucky2u, Egg
Lucky2u (L-5):
Antihero (L-5):
Egg (L-4): Malakittens
jklash12 (L-0): RedCoyote, insanity018, Wolfy, enomis, Antihero

RedCoyote (L-5):
Malakittens (L-1): Antihero, RedCoyote, Wolfy, insanity018
insanity018 (L-4): Egg
enomis (L-5):
Wolfy (L-4): Malakittens, Lucky2u
Lucky2u (L-5):
Antihero (L-5):
Egg (L-5):

Not voting: enomis

RedCoyote (L-5):
Malakittens (L-1): Antihero, RedCoyote, Wolfy, insanity018
insanity018 (L-5):
Kalimar (L-5):
Wolfy (L-2): Malakittens, Lucky2u, Egg
Lucky2u (L-5):
Antihero (L-5):
Egg (L-5):

Not voting: Kalimar

I would like to point out all the opportunities here (in fact the entirety of time between 326 and 386) that Lucky/Egg deliberately passed over in lynching town jklash and town (for the purposes of this argument) Mala.

EDIT @411: Ah, there's the moneyshot. Good eye. It took him a little longer than I would like though.

UNVOTE: Malakittens; VOTE: Egg

[RedCoyote]

unvote

Quick phone post but i just thought of something don't lynch yet

[RedCoyote]

Antihero/Kalimar/Lucky, do you think scumEgg would've forgot my role claim given the fact that it's likely I was shot last night?

[RedCoyote]

Well, that was the main thing I wanted to bring up. It just struck me as I was driving to work in the morning.

Egg's point is well taken, too. I'm a sucker for VCA. I didn't even really put that together when I was looking over it, but Egg's right. It's pretty darn unlikely that jklash was all town.

On the same token, it's pretty unlikely that Egg/Mala/Lucky would all be town, too.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: that

the jklash wagon

was all town.

[RedCoyote]

I have quantifiable townreads on you, Antihero, insanity and Wolfy though. I guess insanity would be my weakest. She hasn't really felt any serious pressure this game, so she could very well just be going with the flow and saying the right things at the right times.

[RedCoyote]

Crap. I'm glad you brought up the deadline.

Damn.

VOTE: Egg

Not really enough time to move it, I reckon. Yes, I think I'd still prefer a Mala lynch, but whatever.

[RedCoyote]

Normally I'm against NL in a situation where the town has "earned" it because generally there is 1 or 2 players that are supertown that will inevitably be lynched anyway.

I have to be honest, after Antihero sabotaging the Mala wagon yesterday in favor of Egg, this game has gotten to be more murky for me.

Additionally, I decided against commuting yesterday given that I figured the scum wouldn't want to take the chance of missing two kills.

I still would put my money on scumMala here, but doubt is starting to seep in. I think seeing scum's kill tonight will really help me. What say y'all?

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: generally there

are

[RedCoyote]

one-shot scum roleblocker?

[RedCoyote]

I can't believe Mala would be so dense. :/

It's funny because even if I wanted to call Antihero scum here, Mala is doing her damnedest to keep me from calling her town.

Mala, how would you rank your scum game?

[RedCoyote]

If you have something to say, say it. Just because you blocked Mala last night doesn't mean her partner couldn't have submitted the kill.

Also, quit changing your avatar.

[RedCoyote]

Lucky.

[RedCoyote]

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I think Mala is scum, insanity, and if you are game I'd vote her with you right now.

But I think I'd still rather NL. I can understand why others would be against that, but from my point of view, that would only help me hunt scum.

[RedCoyote]

You smug bastard. You're probably right though. If you're scum, you've really pulled one over on me, Antihero.

Who are you going to vote?

[RedCoyote]

Wolfy, you don't think I'm confirmed? What's your theory as to what happened on N1?

[RedCoyote]

Fair enough.

[RedCoyote]

We've got a 50/50 chance at hitting scum here, I think. Antihero and I are both town.

Wait a minute, something just clicked for me. Wasn't Lucky extremely eager to abandon his Wolfy wagon that he'd had since, like, page 4 once you brought up Egg, Antihero?

[RedCoyote]

402. Lucky jumps at the chance to vote Egg with Antihero getting off the Mala wagon at L-1 to vote Egg.

Hmm...

[RedCoyote]

Lucky only had three exchanges with Egg prior to that vote. One was fluff, another was a comment agreeing with him (that they both had Mala townreads), and another was him asking for clarification.

Nothing I'd call particularly damning of Egg.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, wow, and if you look at Mala's ISO, she has never directly addressed Lucky once this game. Not once in over 500 posts and 20+ pages. She references him twice to call him null in 147 and 212. She defends Lucky in 50. But these are the only references to him that are in any way analytical, and it's a stretch to call them that.

[RedCoyote]

Lucky has been a consistent Mala supporter from the very beginning of the game, as we all know. He has several posts defending her.

[RedCoyote]

One last post, then I'll stop. I usually don't go rapid fire like this, but I keep thinking of new things to say.

I'll admit I don't like the fact that insanity and Wolfy pretty much townread each other the entire game, so that dilutes this point a bit, but the most jarring piece of evidence to me was Lucky rushing to prop up the Egg wagon after he had literally not attacked Egg/gave a scumread on Egg once. I also don't like that Mala never talks about Lucky at all, whereas Wolfy and insanity both were open with one another and seemed to arrive at their reads of each other more naturally.

I guess Mala still has a null read on Lucky, lol. God only knows where Mala stands in this game given that she's been so closed off and contradictory this entire game.

[RedCoyote]

I've since changed my mind on a no lynch, Luck, given what Antihero has brought up about town vs scum power. Do you care to comment on that before I throw a vote down?

[RedCoyote]

Well, it will be either Lucky or Mala, let me put it that way.

[RedCoyote]

Lol, so, in other words, everyone is scummy except for me and Antihero? In other words, despite 22 pages, you can't even manage to give us one townread that isn't a PR?

VOTE: Malakittens

Going against Antihero's block last night, but Mala is scum. There's just no way she would be so sheepish as town. I cannot believe that to be true. This entire game she's been far too ambivalent and meek. I'm pretty confident it's Mala/Lucky, but I think there's more of a possibility that I'm wrong about Lucky than I am wrong about Mala. If I'm wrong about Mala, I'll take the brunt of the criticism for the town loss and heap praise on the actual scumteam. My instinct and my analysis points to Mala. The only reason Mala was spared yesterday was for Mala/Lucky jumping at the chance to lynch townEgg yesterday.

[RedCoyote]

UNVOTE: Malakittens
VOTE: Lucky2u

[RedCoyote]

ANTIHERO, don't ever talk to me again you worthless son of a scum.

I could curse up a storm in this game. I hate myself with intense fury. I hate myself more than anything I could imagine. I knew Mala was scum. I knew it with every fiber of my being. I'm not saying the town would've won this, but I am seriously pissed at myself for this. I am really, really upset that Mala wasn't lynched here. I give all my props to Mala and insanity... especially insanity... for this wonderful win. I take nothing away from these two wonderful ladies that won this game with their great effort. I am disappointed with myself and my second guessing. I want to harm myself for being so damn afraid to move against Mala. I knew that Mala was scum. I really, really did. Agh, I am so upset, words cannot express how positively frustrated I am with how I performed in this game.

[RedCoyote]

This is so sad. I'm sitting here... I don't know what to do. I am beside myself. Mala was scum from page freaking 1. I literally cannot believe that Mala was allowed to stay alive in this game and that I was apart of that. I don't want to go crazy and say this was the worst town game I've ever played, but dang if it doesn't feel like it. I am so frustrated at this loss!

[RedCoyote]

I just need to vent, antihero... omg, I am so pissed at myself. I don't know if I have ever been so upset at myself over a loss before.

I would give 1000 dollars if only we would've lynched Mala and then lost to insanity. insanity played super well and I don't mind losing to her... I just hate losing this way. Mala obviously earned it since she managed to avoid a lynch herself, but I knew she was scum... I knew it in every fiber of my being. That pisses me off more than anything else. I don't even mind losing, you know? I really don't. I just hate losing when I knew something and didn't push hard enough on it out of fear.

[RedCoyote]

Gosh, I am so pissed. Mala and insanity, congratulations. Don't let anything I say detract from that. You two did very well and y'all are both very good. I hope y'all point to this game with honor because both of y'all earned this win fair and square and did very well to earn it.

[RedCoyote]

Lucky, I could easily tear into you, but I won't because I am more pissed at myself.