Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[Quilford]

Anyways:
Vote: Quilford
Sup

VOTE: Parama

Actually, I'm Santa.

[Quilford]

Oh I'm not actually Santa. I just have bracelet [3].

[Quilford]

Also Jackel nice voting someone and then unvoting them because they questioned your vote.

As Jackel has pointed out, this is not true.

VOTE: Flames682

[Quilford]

ThirtyFour, do you have any reads?

[Quilford]

Don't replace out on Page 5.

I'm not happy with the pressure on ThirtyFour. It puts me ill at ease. I plan to look at Parama, Reck etc a bit more later.

[Quilford]

Sorry, had to do a bit of study over the weekend.

[Quilford]

VOTE: xRECKONERx

No evidence of sustained thought about any one player. Points towards reads fakery.

Jumps on Jackel quickly saying "Did you only vote me because you disliked my suggestion on how to use the doors? How did that make me vote worthy?" as if there were any worthier reasons to vote anyone 22 posts in.

Just as abruptly decides that Jackel and Flames are town with no reasoning for either why they're town or for why the read is "iffy".

In the same post votes Akane with no reasoning.

Votes 34 with no reasoning, saying he's jumping onto the wagon because "At least there are actual reasons" without stating what those "actual" reasons are. (It's a bit awkward that he later tells 34 "holy fucking shit, it's a goddamn game, relax"; it's hard to relax when people are voting you and not explaining their reasoning for it.)

Unvotes 34 to vote Akane saying "Akane real scum actually" without explaining why Akane is scummy, let alone scummier than 34.

Attacks Jackel: "saying someone is scummy because of "gut" and "posts seem off" when it's your only evolving read is very bad". Not only does this indicate a lack of focus on Akane as scum (his vote is on Akane. Why is he not talking about Akane at all?), it's kinda hypocritical considering Reck hasn't given any reasons why any of the targets of his votes are scummy.

The overall pattern is of somebody jumping from player to player without sustained focus on any one player in particular, indicating that he doesn't have the capacity to produce any sort of deep analysis. (He even calls his townreads "iffy" and "weak".) I think that's because he already knows the alignments of those he's attacking. Moreover, his votes and suspicions move from one player to another very quickly, which is at odds with a more measured, searching approach to scumreads that I think is typically town.

[Quilford]

hey quil can you explain why you think I wouldn't explain my reads since you have obviously played with me before and seen me explain my reads

'Can you explain why you think I wouldn't explain my reads' no idea

'Since you have obviously played with me before and seen me explain my reads' Not only do I not have any particular recollection of playing with you (apart from Team Mafia) (I suspect our last game together was >1 year ago), I don't think you've ever been town with me in a game, so. Considering you said 'quilford misreading me again', perhaps you could point me towards a game where I've misread you.

[Quilford]

as in there were more reasons to vote 34 over akane

Yeah, the point is that you haven't told us what they are.

akane was poe based on who i had at least moderate goodvibes from and it was a very noncommittal vote until i found something shinier (like 34 for instance)

Akane was just PoE? A very noncommittal vote? Then why is Akane now 'real scum actually'? What changed?

[Quilford]

Don't replace out on Page 5.

I'm not happy with the pressure on ThirtyFour. It puts me ill at ease. I plan to look at Parama, Reck etc a bit more later.

How about Parama?

Parama is likely town. I'll go into it a bit later when I'm not phoneposting, if you like.

Is his usually this aggressive as scum?

Reckoner? Yes.

[Quilford]

Actually it depends on the playerlist. If he thinks he can coast a bit on the basis that he can ingratiate himself with people he's played with before, for example, he won't be aggressive.

[Quilford]

Parama, is it possible for you to lynch two people at once with your doublevote? I haven't read the past two pages yet but that thought just popped into my head.

[Quilford]

Parama, is it possible for you to lynch two people at once with your doublevote? I haven't read the past two pages yet but that thought just popped into my head.

I suppose it's possible but I don't really see how it'd benefit town; if both are mislynches then we've burned the two mislynches day 1, no?

That's true. I did the maths wrong.

[Quilford]

UNVOTE:

Deadline isn't for a couple of days and I don't want any hammers yet, accidental or otherwise.

[Quilford]

as in there were more reasons to vote 34 over akane

Yeah, the point is that you haven't told us what they are.

II didn't have to, evveryone else did it

You are the first and only person to have switched from Akane to 34.

Also, the only other person to have voted 34 by the time you joined his wagon was Akane. Not only does this make 'everyone else' one person, it also means that one person was the person you previously had a scumread on. This is very odd.

Reckoner? Yes.

how do you know how aggressive I am as scum since you literally just got done saying the only game you remembered playing with me is team mafia

Meta? Reading games you're in?

[Quilford]

Uh no... the fact is the POINT of his case seemed to be built upon me having no strong opinions,

As Not_Mafia has explained, you are not understanding the point of my case.

so pulling apart every little thing in order to make me look bad for it seems ridiculous this early in the game

According to you, Page 8 is too early for a big case. But only two pages earlier you said 'it's a good thing we're not like way past the point where having "gut reads" and posts seeming "off" are acceptable justifications for reads, right'. So: if it's too early for a big case but too late for gut, how am I supposed to justify my reads?

[Quilford]

6-Vote: Bins, Jackel98, Not_Mafia, Grib
5-Vote: Parama, Quilford, Flames, Akane

[Quilford]

I'll post in a bit.

[Quilford]

I'll post in a bit.

*grumble*

I lied!

Tomorrow!

[Quilford]

Alright, working my way from post 11 onwards. You guys sure have posted a lot in the past two days I've been away.

[Quilford]

Reck, who are your two top townreads?

[Quilford]

Actually, don't answer that.

[Quilford]

My position on Reck's claim is that I had a pretty strong scumread on him before the claim, but because the claim is more or less confirmable and we have two mislynches at the very least and therefore two sets of night actions, it doesn't make any sense to lynch him today. Or tomorrow, really. Maybe in LYLO if he hasn't confirmed anyone and is being scummy.

My thoughts: we have eight doors.

If we think scum can't kill anyone they're not through the same door with, we should send 3 pairs of people through the doors each night.

This way, if one of the people in the pairs dies, we know the person they went through the door with is scum. Just in case scum who go through doors can kill people who don't go through doors, the people we pair up should be generally considered the most townie, so that scum are forced to kill the scummiest people.

It bears repeating, however, that this is the optimal strategy only if we think scum can't kill anyone they're not through the same door with.

[Quilford]

3 pairs

6. In addition, three to five players are required in a group for that door to open. No more, no less.

Wow, I'm dumb. I've even played the game recently and I forgot that.

[Quilford]

The Reck / Akane back-and-forth is absolutely terrible. The tunnelling from both sides is stupidly strong.

Akane suddenly going "Can we fucking lynch it already?" is out of character, and it is obviously a bad idea to push for a lynch on a confirmable role.

Meanwhile Reck's arguments around Akane's use of meta are just wrong. You don't have to reveal your identity for your meta case on someone else to be verifiable. I don't buy 'becoming more belligerent as the game goes on' to be something anyone who's meta'd Reck would know; it's not something I associate with Reck and it's not something that would be unique to Reck either. As the game goes on you approach LYLO and tensions rise therefore everyone's going to be more belligerent.

I wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be scum together. (I think Reck's more town than before my case though.)

[Quilford]

VOTE: yoncé

This is 100% the place to go today, though.

[Quilford]

In 22 pages, there has been zero scumhunting whatsoever from this slot.

[Quilford]

Why don't we not send Reck through a door, leave the scummiest-looking player with him, and send all other players through doors?

That way, scum either have to kill Reck, kill the scummiest-looking player, or let Reck confirm himself, and I think those are all pretty good options

[Quilford]

lol, idek. Forget it. My main desire is for yonce to be our lynch. I've always been terrible at setup breaking anyway.

What do you think about yonce?

(Also are you gamma, you sound a lot like gamma)

[Quilford]

It's not possible to produce a particularly in depth case on yonce for really obvious reasons.

Giving him a pass based on his ostensibly ballsy VT claim despite the fact that really literally nothing else he or his predecessor has done can be called town isn't a good idea, I think. It is pretty ballsy though.

I would dispute that my case on Reck was 'almost reaching' at all. The pattern of voting I called Reck out before was the main reason I thought AngryPidgeon was scum (and he was) in Antihero Mafia, if I remember correctly. However I never really pushed AP too hard about it and the hydra I was in was nightkilled N1 without ever lynching AP so I decided to elucidate on it a bit more this time.

[Quilford]

It's a big thing when Akane is using so-called meta on me (which might not actually be accurate) and won't reveal her identity to verify the meta.

Reck, what is this about then?

[Quilford]

@Quil:
1. What basis do you have to believe Reck/Akane are scum together? (Re 525)
2. Why were you so passive on the yonce wagon? You claimed to not be able to make a case (548) when there was certainly enough to make some argument for his lynch.

1. Uh... I talked about the basis in #525 itself.
2. I did make a case. In #548 I said it wasn't possible to make a "particularly in depth case". My case was that in 22 pages there had been no scumhunting from either Flames or yonce. The sustained crappiness of that slot made me think it was scum. But it turns out that neither Flames nor yonce were willing to actually play the game?

Bad questions.

[Quilford]

Parama, please explain why you said I "claimed to not be able to make a case" in #548? That's really not what I said at all.

[Quilford]

So something I noticed when checking our QT back, the one thing Quilford said was he doesn't know how to read anyone anymore, implying Reck is/was confirmed town already.

No, just that yonce flipped town and I was having doubts on whether Reck was actually scum at the time.

What do you mean by "something I noticed when checking our QT back"?

[Quilford]

It was literally a one-line post from me. #648 contains all the elaboration possible.

[Quilford]

I'm not sure if I'm ready to call it a slip per se but looking at it now I don't like how it was phrased

Speaking of things that are phrased oddly.

You said today that "it was yesterday morning before I remembered the QT even existed". Does that mean you read the PM with the QT link in it and then forgot about it entirely until the time when you remembered and made your first and only post in it?

[Quilford]

@QUILFORD: My point wasn't, "You can't know my meta without revealing your identity" because yes, you're right, that isn't a valid statement.

It's a big thing when Akane is using so-called meta on me (which might not actually be accurate) and won't reveal her identity to verify the meta.

Reck, what is this about then?

I want an explanation.

VOTE: Reck

[Quilford]

I really think a massclaim would be a good idea.

[Quilford]

Reck, the point is that you said 'My point wasn't, "You can't know my meta without revealing your identity"' despite saying precisely that in 323. Calm the shit down.

[Quilford]

By the way I would rather be PoE lynched today instead of tomorrow, so that you're not all going "oh yeah, we're supposed to be lynching people based on whether they're scumhunting or not, because that's actually the core difference between town and scum" after the game is over

[Quilford]

Hey Quilford, how about you comment on things that are happening in the here and now instead of dragging the same argument on and on forever?

(this could easily apply to reck too but he's not the one who's here right now)

Those things being?

Also, considering I think Reck could be scum, this is an important argument to have. So, no.

[Quilford]

like yeah some of it's overanalyzing but it's not like he's done literally nothing all game. just nothing productive or helpful to the town.

Yeah Parama your "case" that supposedly proves me wrong was to summarise three of the slots posts, admit some of it might be overanalysing, and then finish with the same conclusion as I did.

I think my case was better and more succinct.

[Quilford]

Akane: the POE argument was actually a subtle comment on the stupidity of using POE instead of looking at a persons history of scumhunting.

For Parama and Akane who apparently see my argument with Reck as a broken record, fine. Do one thing for me: look back through Reck's posts and see if he actually seems to be convincingly searching for scum, as opposed to merely addressing posts made to him or stating reads without further elaboration.

[Quilford]

I'm going to be stubborn and push this point.
Your argument was essentially that

literally nothing else he or his predecessor has done can be called town

which is not the same as "he has done scummy things"
You do not give a single reason for him to be scum?

Doing nothing productive or helpful to the town across two players and 22 pages is itself scummy.

[Quilford]

So you of all people pushing for his lynch based on a lack of role-confirmation is worrisome

Parama, what the fuck is this?

When have I ever said I'm pushing for his lynch based on a lack of role-confirmation?
:
Explain.

[Quilford]

On the other hand we don't know enough about the setup to say with relative certainty that his claim is entirely BS

Oh yes.

This is why a mass claim is a fantastic idea, by the way.

So we can know enough about the setup.

Plus we might have two clears.

[Quilford]

("nothing he's done reads town" is not sufficient)
your "case" was actually made post-mortem in 645.

My case was actually made pre-mortem in 627.

Please also see the last post I addressed to you about this.

[Quilford]

*527

[Quilford]

Yes well the reason I haven't responded to that yet is because I've been caught up in a million other arguments. I haven't 'dodged' it at all. Hold on a minute.

[Quilford]

Right. The reason I thought Reck/Akane was because their tunnelling on each other was absurdly strong and out of character or for suspicious reasons. I didn't state it explicitly because I thought it would be clear, but the conclusion was that it looked like distancing.

[Quilford]

You don't agree with the conclusion or you don't agree with how I reached the conclusion?

[Quilford]

Okay, fine.

[Quilford]

Yeah, I claim slacker.

My problem is that I don't really know anything about Grib or N_M or Jackel or even Akane really atm but I haven't had time to reread. I'll try to do that soon.

[Quilford]

Alright I'm here

With a change in avatar

Time to read!

[Quilford]

hrmrmrmm

[Quilford]

Firstly: Akane is probably town for her catchup posts.

The problem with catchup posts is that 1) they're written in a self-conscious stream of consciousness kind of way, 2) they often contain more summary than analysis, 3) nobody wants to read them. Because of this 4) they're a good tool for scum to look like they're scumhunting when they're actually not, so 5) they're frequently a waste of effort for townies.

But Akane's catchup posts look like they took such a Herculean effort that I think scum wouldn't even bother. Plus, they contain an okay level of analysis.

[Quilford]

Jackel is an okay lynch.

He's voted for Reck and Parama (and he unvoted me while he was still voting Reck, so he must have intended to be voting for me at some stage), all without any reasoning. He's promised it, at various stages, but he's never actually given any. Looks like he's just jumping from one person to the other, without any sort of continuity to his reads.

Would be willing to hammer. I am a bit thrown off by the fact that he's already claimed VT. I think scum would've seen that doing so didn't end particularly well for yonce's slot, and wouldn't have done the same, but... who knows.

[Quilford]

I mean, I could see him being town, which is why he's only an okay lynch. The yonce flip has kind of shaken my faith in scumhunting from first principles a bit. What are they teaching newbies these days, anyway? -__-

[Quilford]

You said today that "it was yesterday morning before I remembered the QT even existed". Does that mean you read the PM with the QT link in it and then forgot about it entirely until the time when you remembered and made your first and only post in it?

Pretty much, opened the PM just before going to sleep, clicked it to get the QT in the list of topics, forgot about the site.

Then why in the QT did you say "keep forgetting this exists", as if you had forgotten more than once?

[Quilford]

Parama, what are your reads?

[Quilford]

Man, I would really love to either 1) lynch Reck or 2) massclaim today.

[Quilford]

Just to remove all the possibility of ambiguity about Reck's role that could potentially spring up in MYLO if we mislynch today and scum kill tonight.

[Quilford]

I think scum would've seen that doing so didn't end particularly well for yonce's slot, and wouldn't have done the same, but... who knows.

So, "here are reasons why it doesn't make sense for Jackel to be scum, but... WHO KNOWS? Let's lynch it anyway then when he flips town I can be right."

That's pretty much the nature of any null-scum read, yes.

[Quilford]

hrmrmrmm

i legitimately want to know what was going through your head when you made this post because I have a feeling it's something good

lol, it was just 'reread done... nothing's jumping out at me'

[Quilford]

haha reck defending gamma's slot so hard. literally four out of the last five posts.

[Quilford]

haha you sound p nervous reck

[Quilford]

please explain how it makes no sense

[Quilford]

#1: reck softdefends gamma's slot

I think scum would've seen that doing so didn't end particularly well for yonce's slot, and wouldn't have done the same, but... who knows.

So, "here are reasons why it doesn't make sense for Jackel to be scum, but... WHO KNOWS? Let's lynch it anyway then when he flips town I can be right."

#2: reck softdefends gamma's slot

WELL NOW WE ARE NOT LYNCHING JACKEL.

#3: reck harddefends gamma's slot (oh no parama saw what i was doing, let's double down)

WELL NOW WE ARE NOT LYNCHING JACKEL.

if there is a Reck/Gamma scumteam then you know where to find me

in the afterlife
because that's not a valid reason yet. YET.

The wagon on Jackel is mostly because of his inactivity, yes?

#4: reck harddefends gamma's slot

My point is what are the accusations against Jackel besides "he was inactive".

I'm not saying Gammaslot is town, because I didn't particularly have a town read on Jackel, it just seems like if the thrust of his wagon was inactivity, and now there's a replacement, the wagon won't really hold water.

#5: reck doesn't defend gamma's slot

gamma boooo

Now if you like, I can explain how fractions work?

[Quilford]

where's your 'garbage content based on literally nothing' now?

[Quilford]

He's voted for Reck and Parama (and he unvoted me while he was still voting Reck, so he must have intended to be voting for me at some stage), all without any reasoning. He's promised it, at various stages, but he's never actually given any. Looks like he's just jumping from one person to the other, without any sort of continuity to his reads.

Here are reasons I gave last page which are the reasons I think Jackel is scum that aren't 'he is inactive' that Reck seemingly missed when he asked 'what are the accusations against Jackel besides "he was inactive".'

[Quilford]

In none of those posts at all do you say "we shouldn't lynch Gamma and wait for him to contribute".

What a blatant lie.

Please point out anywhere in any of those posts where you say "we should wait for Gamma to contribute".

[Quilford]

Whether I said that or not is

STILL FUCKING IRRELEVANT TO THE POINT.

WHY THE FUCK IS ME DEFENDING GAMMA FOR [INSERT REASON HERE] SCUMMY

Because his slot is likely scum, and your posts are attempting to dissuade everyone from lynching him today? Despite the fact that you, by your own words, don't actually have a townread on him????

[Quilford]

And you hadn't even proposed an alternative lynch??

[Quilford]

Because his slot is likely scum, and your posts are attempting to dissuade everyone from lynching him today? Despite the fact that you, by your own words, don't actually have a townread on him????

So this entire thing being scummy is predicated on a flip which we do not have yet and you chose to point it out and fling shit my way because I'm a conditional scumread if/when that slot flips scum. Gotcha.

Just as baseless and irrelevant as I thought.

Oh no, it's scummy now, because I've been varying degrees of convinced you are scum since like Page 7, haven't you noticed?

[Quilford]

Despite the fact that you, by your own words, don't actually have a townread on him????

This part is even dumber.

Using this logic, your criteria for lynching people should be "I do not have a town read on them" instead of "I have a scum read on them". I don't read Jackel as anything. I've said that. The activity levels have kept that slot completely null. You are trying to say I should be voting/lynching Jackel/Gamma just because I don't have an active town read on it.

Hahahaha Reck goes into full misrep mode.

USING THIS LOGIC, MY CRITERIA FOR DEFENDING PEOPLE HARDCORE IS "I HAVE A TOWNREAD ON THEM". But you are defending Gamma/Jackel hardcore, and he's apparently completely null??

"You are trying to say I should be voting/lynching Jackel/Gamma just because I don't have an active town read on it." lol lol lol no, I'm trying to say that IF YOU'RE TOWN you shouldn't be defending Gamma like he's your top town read if you don't have even a semblance of a town read on him. But you are. Hmmmm

[Quilford]

And you hadn't even proposed an alternative lynch??

This is the most damning part of all.

Not only was Reck strongly defending Gamma/Jackel

despite not having a townread the slot at all

, he wasn't even proposing someone else should be lynched instead. Despite the fact that a majority of players found Jackel worth lynching, Reck's trying to get that slot out of the firing line without even proposing we lynch someone else instead.

It all reads as really desperate to me, and I don't know why Reck as town would defend someone most people want to lynch so hard if Reck himself finds the slot only null.

Not to mention that Reck hadn't even mentioned the person his vote was on for 13 posts before his 'gamma noooo' post.

[Quilford]

Despite the fact that you, by your own words, don't actually have a townread on him????

This part is even dumber.

Using this logic, your criteria for lynching people should be "I do not have a town read on them" instead of "I have a scum read on them". I don't read Jackel as anything. I've said that. The activity levels have kept that slot completely null. You are trying to say I should be voting/lynching Jackel/Gamma just because I don't have an active town read on it.

Hahahaha Reck goes into full misrep mode.

USING THIS LOGIC, MY CRITERIA FOR DEFENDING PEOPLE HARDCORE IS "I HAVE A TOWNREAD ON THEM". But you are defending Gamma/Jackel hardcore, and he's apparently completely null??

No, wrong. Defending Jackel's wagon, which is primarily where it is because "Jackel hasn't posted a lot", doesn't make me have to have a townread on him. It means I'm using my brain and thinking, "Huh, well if everyone's primary concern with Jackel was his activity, and we just got a replacement, then the wagon shouldn't really hold up."

1) You're assuming the replacement will be active
2) You're assuming chronic inactivity isn't a scumtell in itself
3) There are reasons why Jackel is scummy that aren't inactivity related

lol lol lol no, I'm trying to say that IF YOU'RE TOWN you shouldn't be defending Gamma like he's your top town read if you don't have even a semblance of a town read on him. But you are. Hmmmm

I don't have a town read on anybody in this game. Literally nobody. I have reads that vary between "null", "scum" and "veryscum".

So why are you defending anybody at all?

[Quilford]

Glad to see Parama's torn down your latest hunk of bullshit for me.

You hadn't so much as MENTIONED Not_Mafia's name for 3 entire days when you made your posts defending Jackel. How was anyone supposed to assume you actually wanted him lynched at all?

[Quilford]

Parama, please ask yourself: If Reck was town, would I have to be walking him through how to play the game?

[Quilford]

Parama, please ask yourself: If Reck was town, would I have to be walking him through how to play the game?

Oh is that what you're doing, you smug prick? Because I'm fairly certain your points don't hold water. As I've explained.

No, that's what Parama's doing.

[Quilford]

i.e.

then make a case based on stuff he said before then, because if you thought he was scum when you voted him then obv you have reason and you can, y'know, tell people these reasons

[Quilford]

your points are terrifically weak

'OH MAN I REALLY WANTED A NOT_MAFIA LYNCH ALL ALONG DUH PAY ATTENTION TO THE FUCKING VC' yeah, that's why you voted Not_Mafia, without posting a case on him, without having addressed him in the past at all pretty much, and then subsequently didn't mention Not_Mafia's name for 3 days, except to include him in door votes.

'I only defended Jackel so I had something to do', lol, yeah, aside from pushing one of the 'veryscum' reads you allegedly have. or even N_M

[Quilford]

2) Chronic inactivity isn't a scumtell. Seriously? Seriously. This is a point you're trying to make...that all chronic lurkers are scum.

Fuck your misreps.

I said 'chronic inactivity is a scumtell in itself'. I did not say that 'all chronic lurkers are scum'.

[Quilford]

Parama, please ask yourself: If Reck was town, would I have to be walking him through how to play the game?

playing like a moron is different than being scummy tbh

Playing like a moron is Reck's scum strategy.

The guy has won Paragon of Mafia Hunters, for christ's sake. He does not play like a moron as town.

it's not like I don't want Reck dead but I also don't like doing stupid things like lynching a confirmable role
if he's alive d3 though that excuse is going to be dead in the water imo so wait until then for your precious blood

Uuuuuuuuuuuugh

[Quilford]

if something is a scumtell it is indicative of scum and thus anyone performing that act should be considered scum
so it's not really a big misrep, maybe a minor one making assumptions

No, it isn't.

Performing a scumtell doesn't mean someone is scum. Hence the 'tell' bit on the end. It's something that scum would do, but it's not really convincing on its own. It has being committed in tandem with other scumtells as well. And Jackel was scummy for a range of other reasons. Chronic inactivity made it look like he was trying to lurk out of the spotlight.

[Quilford]

Anyway Parama the last thing I want to do is get into some sort of theory argument with you.

So we can disagree on the definition of scumtell, but that's the sense in which I was using it in my post.

[Quilford]

I posted an Akane read a few pages ago.

I agree that Grib shouldn't be today's lynch. He's null.

[Quilford]

How much of the Quilford/Reck mess is actually important. Serious question.

Here's the TLDR of it:

Quilford thinks I'm scummy for not wanting the Gamma-slot lynched after Jackel replaced out. Apparently, this is because he has both independent scum reads on me/Jackel, and also an associative read on the two of us being scum together. I think this is absurd, and his post trying to paint me as scum for soft defending the Jackel slot is nothing more than vapid posturing with no merit behind it. We then proceed to dig into the points of the case, in which Quilford says I should've proposed an alternative lynch (my vote was on NM), and says I'm somehow wrong for assuming chronic inactivity isn't a scumtell (because that's fucking ridiculous).

by the way grib, i assume you know that you should probably be reading the 'mess' even if you don't particularly want to

[Quilford]

anyway I don't like gamma's catchup / reads posts, i've never seen him catchup post as town and i have seen him give reads lists as scum.

not to mention the reasons i've already given why catchup posts are bad.

[Quilford]

has he ever replaced in as town
are the games you've played with him 100% of his meta
why are you using meta

yeah he has in fact i've been scum in a game where he replaced in as town and he didn't do catchup posts at all, he said he was skimming the thread and then he just launched into having opinions once caught up

nope! i do admit it is a pretty small sample size, but his posts themselves struck me as pretty weak in all the ways catchup posts typically do, i don't think gamma would make them as town

if you want to post a manifesto on why meta is bad, MD is the place to do it. i use meta because people typically don't change their approaches to scum and town

[Quilford]

I think scum would've seen that doing so didn't end particularly well for yonce's slot, and wouldn't have done the same, but... who knows.

So, "here are reasons why it doesn't make sense for Jackel to be scum, but... WHO KNOWS? Let's lynch it anyway then when he flips town I can be right."

yawn hypocrisy

[Quilford]

/intent to hammer

Claim.

PEDIT: fucking Parama

[Quilford]

Gamma is not at L-1.

Do /you/ even read bro?

[Quilford]

In no way does that translate to OH MAN I FUCKING WANT A NM LYNCH I AM BURNING WITH DEEP GUTTERAL PASSION FOR HIS LYNCH.

Wow its a good thing I never said that

[Quilford]

he's not but he thought he was. I know he's not at L-1 because

I'm the one who unvoted him you moron

I know you're the one who unvoted him you moron.

So why did you make a point against me for talking about meta while he was at L-1?

[Quilford]

Also why the fuck did you not let Gamma claim so we could see if he claimed the same thing as Jackel?

Jesus fucking christ.

[Quilford]

It's a horrible misrep to say I only defended Jackel so I would have something to do.

Well, that is exactly what you said. So.

[Quilford]

Because the other option is to just sit on the sidelines and show up and prod dodge every 48 hours and play the night game?

[Quilford]

when did I ever say that
the fact that he thought he was at L-1 has nothing to do with the meta you pushed
basically what gamma said: if you replaced into a slot about to be lynched and you were town, it wouldn't contradict meta to put in actual effort; you have to put stuff in context

That's what Reck said you nong.

[Quilford]

'cause that would toootally have worked
why did you let him know he wasn't at L-1 when he thought he was? you removed pressure from him.
stop being a hypocrite.

It might have, Jesus H fucking Christ.

The only point of that pressure would be to have him claim. I can put the pressure back any time I want by simply voting him but you can't take back the fact that he now knows his predecessor claimed.

[Quilford]

What the fuck?

What mistake did I make?

You made the mistake of letting Gamma know his predecessor had claimed when he didn't know that at all?

[Quilford]

Re 966: no it isn't, I assumed that you had forgotten where your vote was. I was well aware Gamma wasn't at L-1 which is why I hadn't asked him to claim immediately after he replaced in

[Quilford]

I don't give a fuck. You can put pressure back any time. You can't get someone to forget their predecessor hasn't claimed.

[Quilford]

I don't know what you're going about re 972, I think you've mistaken a post I made as addressing you when it was addressing Reck instead

[Quilford]

I like how you treat this basic gambit as literally the most important thing in the game, like I'm literally osama bin hitler for ruining it

No I'm not, it was just a really unnecessary thing to do and you denied it was, and then you tried to push blame onto me afterwards

[Quilford]

Its not the same thing at all Parama, anyone can vote Gamma at any time and put the pressure back.

[Quilford]

You know what?

Mod: replace me please

This is exactly the reason I stopped playing Mafia. I'm not going to let something that is supposed to be a game take up all my fucking time and energy. Especially when other people are going on about how they don't want to read certain sections of the game. Fuck that.