Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[Parama]

oh hey gamma hi there

[Parama]

I don't like how half of your reads are "they could be scum but maybe not" or "they could be town but maybe not"
but ehh I'm not much better at the moment anyways so w/e

[Parama]

Gamma what even can I do I don't know what to do anymore there's so much nothing happening bcuz I was lynching you before you were here

[Parama]

gamma let's tlak about gribs ok

you start

[Parama]

Reck if you are reading everyone as some degree of null to scummy then you might not be doing a very good job reading

then again I already knew that

[Parama]

I assumed you had the mental capacity to say, "Hey, wait, Reck isn't voting Jackel and has been voting Not_Mafia for awhile, that's probably who he wants lynched!" I apologize, I will not overestimate your brain function in the future.

because you're doing such a good job voicing your opinion or pushing a lynch on your top scumread

NM has done basically nothing since I voted him except take potshots at me and avoid me. I'm not going to sit there and keep screaming for his lynch.

then make a case based on stuff he said before then, because if you thought he was scum when you voted him then obv you have reason and you can, y'know, tell people these reasons

[Parama]

How much of the Quilford/Reck mess is actually important. Serious question.

[Parama]

Parama, please ask yourself: If Reck was town, would I have to be walking him through how to play the game?

playing like a moron is different than being scummy tbh
it's not like I don't want Reck dead but I also don't like doing stupid things like lynching a confirmable role
if he's alive d3 though that excuse is going to be dead in the water imo so wait until then for your precious blood

like his reaction to the yonce VT claim

I only bring this up because Bins has the exact opposite feel as you re: NM; Bins dislikes this specific post a lot but doesn't find NM too scummy otherwise (or so I think IIRC?)
why you do think the reaction is town?

I could probably find a stronger case on someone else, honestly, but his wishywashyness in regards to me/Akane D1 didn't sit quite right with me.

you just left yourself an out here, ftr

he immediately throws mud on Parama but leaves himself an out

so you just lost one of your points against him. either it's a scummy thing to do so you're admitting you did a scummy thing, or it's not a scummy thing to do

also the out in question pisses me off. "okay nvm maybe he's not scum but dammit I'mma lynch him anyway even though I am stating that there are people I could find scummier if I would bother to put in the effort for looking into"

1) Yes, I am. Because it's Gamma. And because if the replacement

isn't

active, then

the moderator will find another replacement who is

.

No, if Gamma is inaactive, the slot is dead.

3) I understand that. NM pointed out that cautious voting and overall timidness were reasons. But

THE LARGEST REASON

(you know, which is why I said 'largely' earlier) why the wagon exists is because Jackel wasn't active. I have a hard time believing that the bits and pieces of the case left behind after you remove inactivity from the reasons are enough to warrant the lynch right now.

Jackel never stopped being inactive so the entire case against Jackel still holds; does not mean it's a valid reason to lynch Gamma solely on the basis of his predecessor though, no point in even having a replacement if we're going to do that

Because my vote was on him. I didn't know my posting frequency stopped people from paying attention to the fucking votecount.

you're pretty much wasting you're vote if you're going to park it on someone and not vocalize any reasons why other people should join you

[Parama]

if something is a scumtell it is indicative of scum and thus anyone performing that act should be considered scum
so it's not really a big misrep, maybe a minor one making assumptions

[Parama]

i'm so glad we have activity again though
I knew we could do it guys, I believed in you all

[Parama]

i dun care about meta, and reck would be dead d1 if not for his claim, which is why its lifespan is swiftly ending
nobody really has a townread on him, i understand that, nobody wants him around
but i'm just stubborn

[Parama]

i don't even know what good reck being conftown would do for us anyways, i don't really plan to listen to him even if he is, would only help PoE things if anything

[Parama]

Grib is in the null-pool but I want to leave him alive for another day
Akane is p. much my strongest town read and my only paranoia is buddying but damned if I care atm

[Parama]

tbh I tried reading it but decided death by asphyxiation would be more pleasant in comparison

[Parama]

has he ever replaced in as town
are the games you've played with him 100% of his meta
why are you using meta

[Parama]

Jackel already claimed
do u reed bro

[Parama]

I really don't like how Quil's pushing Gamma on meta especially considering the entirely valid point Gamma makes re: being at L-1

[Parama]

he's not but he thought he was. I know he's not at L-1 because

I'm the one who unvoted him you moron

[Parama]

when did I ever say that
the fact that he thought he was at L-1 has nothing to do with the meta you pushed
basically what gamma said: if you replaced into a slot about to be lynched and you were town, it wouldn't contradict meta to put in actual effort; you have to put stuff in context

[Parama]

Also why the fuck did you not let Gamma claim so we could see if he claimed the same thing as Jackel?

Jesus fucking christ.

'cause that would toootally have worked
why did you let him know he wasn't at L-1 when he thought he was? you removed pressure from him.
stop being a hypocrite.

[Parama]

no it isn't?

heyyy now, being at l-1 on replacing in seemed like it deserved some actual content instead of me just going 'lolgut' and then immediately getting lynched because i was/am too lazy to read the entire game at once because im really im not going to do that right now

this is the specific gamma post I'm referencing

[Parama]

claim anyways i don't even care

[Parama]

jesus christ Quil get off your high horse, if you make a mistake you can just own up to it instead of pretending like you're always right

[Parama]

hi Bins
you're a bit late but there's still some potentially-poisoned kool-aid left

[Parama]

Do /you/ even read bro?

I know you're the one who unvoted him you moron.

second post is blatantly a lie

+you did p. much the exact same thing I did re: bad gambit and are calling me out for it while acting liek you did nothing wrong either (pressure isn't just for claims lol)

That's what Reck said you nong.

already pointed out why this was wrong

[Parama]

How much of the Quilford/Reck mess is actually important. Serious question.

[Parama]

i don't even care
long story short I like you a lot less now and carrying on this argument isn't helping anyone

[Parama]

I like how you treat this basic gambit as literally the most important thing in the game, like I'm literally osama bin hitler for ruining it

[Parama]

I didn't push blame onto you for it lol, I called you a hypocrite for doing basically the same thing and treating them like two completely different things
I was legitimately not even thinking about the stupid gambit and I posted before you did, maybe 'cause gambits like that are always stupid
what pro-scum motivation do I have for intentionally ruining that gambit? am I scum with Gamma 'cause that's literally the only way it makes sense

[Parama]

you stole post #1000
i'm sad now

[Parama]

y'know what whatever so it's not the same thing sure okay
why does it matter?

[Parama]

holy crap calm down dude. just take a break and come back when you're feeling less frustrated jesus christ

[Parama]

that was fast, kind of disappointingly
special mechanics are basically the door mechanics and nothing else, we don't know much else for sure except the door mechanics

[Parama]

i've been agreeing with that for a while, but screw that claim seriously.

[Parama]

no wrong I'm not voting Gamma

[Parama]

why the hell am I not voting at all though, dammit
dunno I'm game for this one
VOTE: Not_Mafoa

[Parama]

I CAN"T SPELL
DISREGARD
VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Parama]

SHUT UP KANNYI DON'T NEED YOUR CRAP RIGHT NOW >:-C

bins stop that right this instant

[Parama]

vote someone bins
omg

[Parama]

literally never used unvote tags before
okay
doesn't matter now

[Parama]

do you think he's town? if not, vote him, vote someone, I don't know, having your vote on nobody is still wasting your vote

[Parama]

pro
as
heck

[Parama]

i actually don't have much against NM but hell I don't know there's no lynches that are particularly appealing, only particularly bad

[Parama]

How much of the Quilford/Reck mess is actually important. Serious question.

-snip-

lol, but what are you saying?

zero
don't be dense bro

so you just lost one of your points against him. either it's a scummy thing to do so you're admitting you did a scummy thing, or it's not a scummy thing to do

Well not really, town do scummy things, and hipocrisy is not a scumtell

you can't call something a scumtell if you're the one committing it, because if you're calling it a scumtell, then you're saying the reason someone else is scum is a valid reason for why you're scum, which is to say you are discrediting your own point.
it's hypocrisy yeah but even worse than that implies

if something is a scumtell it is indicative of scum and thus anyone performing that act should be considered scum
so it's not really a big misrep, maybe a minor one making assumptions

Again town do scummy things. Since when is a tell supposed to have 100% accuracy?

so are you saying town should intentionally do scummy things, because scumtells aren't 100% accurate? the point of a scumtell is that it finds scum. town can do scummy things, but the entire point is to look for things that a scum would do, and it's not my fault if other townies play like scum

'cause that would toootally have worked

That's not the point. What was the purpose of you stepping in the middle of someone trying to bait a scumslip

already addressed this; it's not like I intentionally ruined the gambit, because I wasn't thinking about that kind of stupid gambit in the slightest
and again, the only reason I'd intentionally ruin the gambit is if I was scum with Gamma
do you think I'm scum with Gamma?

i'll read the rest now though

[Parama]

1 case of irrelevant, 2 cases of theory, 1 case of limited association tell /at best/

[Parama]

haha reck defending gamma's slot so hard. literally four out of the last five posts.

Your point being? Seems to be out of them being mates more than anything else

it's not a solid association tell but not worth being this dismissive of either.

No, wrong. Defending Jackel's wagon, which is primarily where it is because "Jackel hasn't posted a lot", doesn't make me have to have a townread on him. It means I'm using my brain and thinking, "Huh, well if everyone's primary concern with Jackel was his activity, and we just got a replacement, then the wagon shouldn't really hold up."

Jackel's inactivity doesn't disappear because he replaced out, I don't get why you keep pushing this angle

redundant post, I've already said this and I think someone else has said the same too

I don't have a town read on anybody in this game. Literally nobody. I have reads that vary between "null", "scum" and "veryscum".

I'm having close to the opposite problem

Quick. Top two scum reads. Now. And with a brief discussion of why.

I assumed you had the mental capacity to say, "Hey, wait, Reck isn't voting Jackel and has been voting Not_Mafia for awhile, that's probably who he wants lynched!" I apologize, I will not overestimate your brain function in the future.

NM has done basically nothing since I voted him except take potshots at me and avoid me. I'm not going to sit there and

keep

screaming for his lynch.

Except you've done nothing to actually push my lynch other than "I was roleblocked and Quil made that one post that looked town"

again, redundant.

and his D2 speculation on the scum room kill mechanic.

Why did you like this?

dammit, stop asking good questions that make no sense to ask as scum goddammit

And who even cares about site awards?

not really relevant, but I cracked up at this
amen brah

I don't know why you're asking Quil questions, he can't answer them and Bulge isn't a mind reader so he can't answer how Quil would

[Parama]

it's like every time there's something somewhat scummy there's something townie to balance it out, dammit
ugh

[Parama]

so are you saying town should intentionally do scummy things, because scumtells aren't 100% accurate? the point of a scumtell is that it finds scum. town can do scummy things, but the entire point is to look for things that a scum would do, and it's not my fault if other townies play like scum

That's not what I said at all. I'm saying a scumtell not being 100% accurate doesn't invalidate it. And yes I agree if a townie starts dropping tells left, right and centre it's their own fault, but the tells were still applicable.

what the hell are you talking about, I'm the one defending the scumtell here and you're the one attacking it
me: it's a scumtell, which is indicative of scum (not that it's 100% scum)
you: but it could be town because scumtells aren't 100%
me: true but the point of a scumtell is to play under the assumption that scum are more likely to perform scumtells
you: scumtells not being 100% don't invalidate them

???

I legitimately don't follow where your response here comes from.

god dammit do you know what I just realized
if we mislynch today and scum kills tonight, tomorrow is mylo
I want to lynch reck even more now jesus christ ugh but if he's town we're screwed either way dammit

[Parama]

sigh. I wish I had a decent read on Gamma and I wish Reck wasn't so awful

[Parama]

i actually don't have much against NM but hell I don't know there's no lynches that are particularly appealing, only particularly bad

Why were you jumping down my throat about not having any strong feelings regarding lynches but you feel the same way?

well one person I want to lynch is claiming a potentially confirmable role, while the other was replaced recently and I'm wanting to see more from before I decide to resume that push
i do have two scumreads and all, which makes it kind of hard to want to look for a possible third scum considering that there are probably not more than 2 scum in the game
'cause if I have two stronger reads then anyone else I push is likely town?
tho if I can get a townread on Gamma that'd be pretty cool and might motivate me to look in to other people a bit more

and it's not that anything has changed as much as I noticed something I hadn't been thinking about until now that has altered my previous stance

[Parama]

There's something about Parama that has been bothering me but I'm chalking it up to intense paranoia instead of scum tactics. The way he's trying to form a town bloc out of his N1 door group seems like something Parama would do

as scum

... not that he doesn't form blocs as town, but usually he does that super early game D1 if he's going to do it. Coming out of Door 1 holding hands and singing Kumbaya is a little sketch IMO. Also, the way he jumped in to go BUT GAMMA'S PREDECESSOR ALREADY CLAIMED is really fucking suspicious,

especially

if the Gamma slot is scum.

implying I was the one who decided our door was town and not that Akane/Bins/I all decided it together because we all collectively townread each other

but no obviously this is 100% on me despite me having a null-scum read on Bins going into the night

oh no Reck's onto me

Grib you've done so little thus far or at least I can't remember anything besides night shenanigans, which is why I have a sliiiight slight town lean on you
but you did kind of hurt that earlier
but then I don't know where you're coming from because I sensed miscommunication happening more than anything else

[Parama]

holy crap Reck actually did something though

[Parama]

Grib, I'd really like you to tell me why you want to stay outside the rooms.

ssshhh
don't worry he has a reason

[Parama]

so you will not use your power, and thus almost certainly be lynched tomorrow, because we put you in a room with one person in particular?
so we should lynch you today then is what you're saying

[Parama]

and tbh Grib it's more that I'm not paying attention to you than anything
which is my fault
but w/e

[Parama]

you could replace out too
but you're choosing to play anti-town?

[Parama]

1a) No, I'm not the alleged Roleblocker. Again, no surprise there.

Wow, now that I think about it, this is true and objectively makes you less likely to be scum than anyone else (1/7 instead of 2/7)
Unless somehow you have two abilities and you can use both in the same night which I doubt
Hmmm no we're not lynching Grib today

(Also, just so it's on record, I want to throw out the possibility of an Arsonist? I used to play mafia on IRC a lot, and it was only after literally like, seven straight days of no Nightkills that someone would be like "oh fucking shit Arsonist???" and then everyone would burst into flames. We've only had one Night phase but if the mafia's kill isn't restricted to rooms then I have no idea why they didn't kill anyone.)

IRC mafia is a bit weirder than on-site games though, if there's an arsonist in this game then it's a bastard mod game lol

also

5-Vote: Akane, Parama, Reck
4-Vote: Bins, Bulge, Gamma

I'm gonna ISO Grib a little for now 'cause dammit I do need to get a better read on him

[Parama]

also I will admit that Quil's ragequit is pretty town but it really, really does not mean everything he did previously is 100% meaningless
I mean, I don't want to lynch him/Bulge today anyways and they're probtown, but
I don't like Reck pulling a huge 180 simply over that

[Parama]

I generally don't get badvibes and get some goodvibes from Grib's questions/reactions but there are still things that bother me, almost entirely encapsulated to the start of D2. don't like his votes there and don't like the squabble we got into re: his role and setup speculation
I'd say more on the town side of null for now though
I'm legitimately not reading anyone but Reck and Gamma-ish as scum atm, with NM being almost entirely null with slight slight scum lean.
sigh. I think this means I'm almost definitely wrong on one of my townreads but I want to believe it's one of the weaker ones I'm wrong on. maybe quil/bulge? but then reck's very likely town if he's scum... hmm.

[Parama]

I'm not actually sure what in particular you're talking about there but if you maybe pointed to the post in question I'd happily respond

[Parama]

you went from having pissing contests with him to "oh now he's town" based solely on the ragequit
that's really the issue I have

[Parama]

if she's scum she's pushing on you as a mislynch
and doing a p. good job of it
so be proud of that if you want to to lol

(she isn't scum tho)

[Parama]

and if you're both scum then I'm a tortoise wearing a party hat

[Parama]

brb google searching that now

[Parama]

goddammMMMIIIT I WAS EDITING THAT ONE IN PAINT JUST NOW OMG

[Parama]

the fruits of my labor

i am the greatest artiste

[Parama]

I forgot to give you both curly mustaches

[Parama]

I'm bored so I'm posting crap

[Parama]

p. sure nothing's gonna happen until you post something useful, man

[Parama]

it's bad because it's on you, yes, we know reck

[Parama]

you replaced in, which mean a new person with new reads and new content
it's kind of important to get that out before night starts

[Parama]

see, reck, if you had been posting stuff like that all game, maybe you wouldn't need a role to confirm you as town (or you prob already would be if you're actually town)
the meta post is irrelevant but I p. much agree with your thoughts on Gamma. now if you'd have, like, done that before I yelled at you, we could all be friends

re: Bulge-post - if you can generalize everything into 5 categories then I'm going to deconstruct them all
theory posts can be used as an argument for or against a lynch, one's personal beliefs come in to play in scumhunting
ICing is always good because it separates the stupid from the scummy, he's not the only one who's been doing it
half the bloody game has been vague all game long, but it's not an invalid point
parroting is fine
I legitimately don't even understand what you take issue to re: red ones
fluff exists in multiple players' iso's as well also, not a scumtell. it's fluff in your own case to point out fluff, even.
building your entire case on the first 11 pages of the thread is also ignoring the 35 pages that follow, it doesn't make anything invalid but it doesn't make it as relevant as analyzing more recent posts or his play as a whole. why no comment on posts made under pressure?

basically tho

A lot of what you quoted is not taking any sort of context in to account about what was happening. Or is just hyperbole and/or a lie. I can go through any ISO in any game and colour code it with buzzwords with literally 0 explanation. This is objectively not a case.

is accurate, regardless of either of your alignments.

[Parama]

@gamma: more the vagueness and noncommittal stuff
@bulge: theory influences scumhunting, which is the point I'm making. the only thing that directly advances the game are votes anyways. ICing can indirectly advance the game.
@reck: what specifically are you referencing, though?

[Parama]

or that making a few good posts does not redeem a day and a half of absolutely awful play

[Parama]

I tend to play my games in global scope while you seem interested in playing in relative scope, fwiw

[Parama]

again, your handful of good posts is not going to outweigh the mountain of bad ones. my read has not changed, it is still a fluid read, just one that has maintained throughout the game

hmm doesn't that sound familiar.

[Parama]

spending a day and half literally talking about how much you don't care and getting into dick-measuring contests that cluttered up the thread while simultaneously refusing to scumhunt.

[Parama]

I'm not even interested in this, I'm not gonna lynch you today and if you're not confirmed town by tomorrow then you're gonna have to try pretty damn hard to not get my vote.

[Parama]

anyways we have like 9 hours or so to lynch someone so

[Parama]

actually more like 8.
Gamma, you're wasting your vote atm.
out of the three main wagons right now, I'm bothered by the one on Bulge, could go either way between NM and Gamma.

[Parama]

if Reck is not confirmed town come day start tomorrow I will be placing my vote on him and not moving it the entire day

[Parama]

ehh mostly because Quil's slot carried over a bit of a town lean that Bulge hasn't yet entirely destroyed, though he seems intent on doing so.
also I don't think he claimed? out of the alive people the only ones claimed are me and Gamma

[Parama]

And Reck. Not sure how you'd forget that.

reck's claim has beyond a standard claim and become kind of its own thing???
I don't know lol I'm distracted with classwork and not entirely focused here

@Bulge it's not that your reasons are wrong; your case just has laziness stamped all over it, and you have yet to provide any thoughts on any players besides NM and Reck. what's your stance on Gamma, particularly?

[Parama]

right now both Bulge and NM are L-2
but ugh
I don't like this wagon on The Bulge aaat aaaall it has both the other wagoneers on it
and then Akane who's ???

[Parama]

for two scum candidates to be both on the third makes the third look like a scum counterwagon; not that *both* of you are scum, but if we're trying to lynch scum presumably one of the three wagons should be, and hopefully two of them; making two people piling on a third look suspicious at least to my eyes

[Parama]

yeah you really should claim since, well, L-1, deadline imminent, etc.

[Parama]

you could use it on me since my role is toasted anyways, tho I dunno if it would actually do anything, lol. meh. probably best to just not use it, yeah

[Parama]

if scum have a roleblock that goes through doors then it's a pretty good town role.
conversely if NM was scum and in a room with Reck, why would Reck still even have his role? I mean. Not a confirmable thing like a kill, and eliminates the issue entirely instead of only delaying it one night, /and/ we wouldn't know whether or not it goes through doors if he didn't claim it. hmm.

[Parama]

Did I somehow completely miss Parama claiming.

Why did he claim.

10/10 would lol again

[Parama]

@Parama: They could be scum together?

I find this unlikely, honestly

[Parama]

if reck comes out and claims vanillized right now then they're both 100% scum
I don't think he's that dumb

[Parama]

oh okay that works too

[Parama]

<- me rn

o rly

omg
dying

[Parama]

the hammer is null as hell, it's worse if he flips scum than if he flips town tbh but it's a pretty reck thing to do

[Parama]

stop no *dies*

[Parama]

oh boy reck hammered while we'd voted him into a room with Kanny
this should be a fun night

[Parama]

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

in that order I guess

[Parama]

[Parama]

waiting on a PM thing and then I'll vote, 99% sure who I'm lynching today though

[Parama]

not my role I'm waiting on a PM for
p-edit: oh okay sure then

[Parama]

VOTE: Gammagooey


how do we want to do doors btw? 3 people in, 2 out, or all 5 people in a single door?

[Parama]

1 + 2 + 3 + 5 + 7 = 18 FFFFUU okay we can't do all 5

[Parama]

p. much need Reck in a room btw. so.
hmm.
7 + 1 + 2 = 10 = 1
7 + 1 + 3 = 11 = 2
7 + 2 + 3 = 12 = 3
7 + 3 + 5 = 15 = 6

these are all the valid groups of 3 w/ reck i'm p sure

[Parama]

I know how to answer that but I'm not sure if I should

[Parama]

...actually hold on

stressed as hell about this post by the way can you answer us faster :<

[Parama]

oh and re: bulge, the QT was alright, like 55 posts and it's mostly me/Akane

[Parama]

huh. okay. I dunno, leave it for now anyways bcuz Reck's probably town regardless.

[Parama]

you mean have him confirm your role not your RB right?

[Parama]

if there's 3 scum then my reads are pretty much boned.
p-edit: How would he have confirmed your RB? you said that he could claim to have gotten a confirmation PM if he was your buddy, which is reasonable.

[Parama]

The message fits with flavor, at any rate.

ugh ugh ugh. What the fuck ever, let's lynch scum today so this stupid game can stop hurting my stupid brain.

But it also fits with a QT Spy. Why else would he want to sit out?

Did anyone receive a message from Grib?

well I did N1 and he was dead by N2, so. I doubt he'd be able to message two people in one night.

[Parama]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMkay.

So uh can we just lynch Gamma or Bulge and keep going please

bulge is like
literally #2 townread right now can we not

[Parama]

bulge is like
literally #2 townread right now can we not

But Bulgeslot was in the room with me N1 when I was RB'd :3

then the RB can go through doors
problem solved
I'm not even playing this game omg

[Parama]

reck continues to infuriate me even after he's p. much confirmed town

I expected this

[Parama]

Bins was your QT cool and stuff btw? how much activity and all

[Parama]

if gamma isn't scum, i quit, i just quit

[Parama]

in my first post of the thread

yes

[Parama]

Grib did the same thing at the end of D2 lol

Did I somehow completely miss Parama claiming.

Why did he claim.

Oh my actual god.

Ignore me please that was awful.

[Parama]

the suspense
it builds
like legos

[Parama]

sounds like the plot for a bad porno

[Parama]

hey remember when 1337 was like the hippest internet term

yeah the internet really used to suck

[Parama]

So are we actually claiming? Meh.

I can change someone's bracelet number for the rest of the game, so we can go through door combinations we might not have been able to manage before.

I haven't used it yet because there hasn't been a reason to.

this would be useful if we only had like one or two doors left but atm anyone can still go through a door

[Parama]

let's cancel the massclaim now woo

[Parama]

if that's your premise for not lynching him
then i'm going to have to
do something
and get reck pissed at me

[Parama]

nvm if you're a vanilla cop then idc i won't get reck mad because we've had enough of that

[Parama]

no, bins is a cop who smells like vanilla

[Parama]

Ok if we're gonna base today off of "try to find who RBd reck" I think I'd like Parama to claim because that could potentially save us a lot of time.

omg are you seriously this dense

[Parama]

btw, akane, does your power go through doors?

[Parama]

in my first post of the thread

yes

http://forum.mafiascum.net/posting.php? ... &p=6207578

[Parama]

wow that was not the right thing lol

has parama claimed

in my first post of the thread

yes

[Parama]

if that's your premise for not lynching him
then i'm going to have to
do something
and get reck pissed at me

I mean this

oh.

reck's totally BSing about the RB, he forgot to send in his action n1.

[Parama]

it's like, so quintessentially reck to do something like that you don't even know

[Parama]

i'm giggling so hard now thanks guys ahaha

[Parama]

do we do one 3-person group or one 4-person group
either's pretty fine so

[Parama]

frankly if scum don't have a kill then the room size doesn't matter.

[Parama]

btw gamma in room 4 was making a case on you bussing nm, parama

yeah, he probably realized that I'm literally the only person left he could push a case on, that makes enough sene

[Parama]

i want to hear the case anyways, curious now

[Parama]

like, paraphrase it or something, pie will modkill you if you quote yourself from QTs since he's a jerk

[Parama]

gamma's scum but he's not here and i'm not comfortable with powerlynching him until he shows up
and we need to decide on rooms

p-edit: your wagon was the towniest of the three and had the other two wagons on it, which set off red flags like hell., which is pretty much why I said that. to be entirely honest the NM vote was mostly just me being stubborn about moving it, I was kind of sheeping Kanny at first then she went and voted crappily.
and my "case" against NM was me ISOing him and coming to the conclusion that I had no goddamn clue how to read him mostly.

[Parama]

we could do that I guess??? I don't see a point to it but sure

[Parama]

gamamamama where are you

[Parama]

I will literally be stuck if Gamma is not scum.

this is me too, yeah. I'll have to like
reread the entire thread and probably become eternally miserable in the process
I have no clue who the hell even works as scum outside of gamma

[Parama]

Like I had Bins as "if Gamma's not scum then I guess Bins is" until Kanny pointed out a thing in our QT that shot Bins into the "no way in hell is this person scum" category
I think if I had to lynch *anyone* other than gamma
it'd be Reck? which is stupid as hell to do BUT THEN I DON'T BLOODY KNOW

[Parama]

yeah, I already did.

p. much need Reck in a room btw. so.
hmm.
7 + 1 + 2 = 10 = 1
7 + 1 + 3 = 11 = 2
7 + 2 + 3 = 12 = 3
7 + 3 + 5 = 15 = 6

these are all the valid groups of 3 w/ reck i'm p sure

I didn't do 4-person rooms though or any group leaving reck out tho.
other 3-man groups:
1 + 2 + 3 = 6
2 + 3 + 5 = 10 = 1
only other two that work I'm pretty sure.

5 choose 4 is 5, hmm
1 + 2 + 3 + 5 = 11 = 2
1 + 2 + 5 + 7 = 15 = 6

these are the only two that work with 4-person groups if we lynch Gamma.

[Parama]

I'm 100% okay with this, we have time and content is good
I dunno what else I could post until late saturday night tho because if you're not scum then my reads are screwed but if you're scum then hopefully the game will be over after you die so ???

[Parama]

ehh. he's scum but there's no reason to rush the lynch.

[Parama]

ssshh I'm practicing my impression of a tree

[Parama]

stop joining so many games and you wouldn't have that problem :V
i'm waiting until saturday night and if by midnight tomorrow if Gamma hasn't posted then powerlynch away

[Parama]

dunno if you'd be able to do that??? 9 would work if you can't since there's nothing saying no duplicate numbers as far as I know

[Parama]

hell yes

6-vote: Bins, Akane, Parama, Reck, Bulge

[Parama]

would it have been possible to change someone's number to like
i
or something?
'cause that would've been great

[Parama]

gamma's content is fine I guess but the validity of it only matters if he's not scum. he could make a post calling out the remaining scum with a perfect case that nobody could argue against and I'd probably still lynch him because the associative tells are too strong to ignore.
but I'd like to see him post more just in case he's town.

[Parama]

lynching Bins or Bulge at this point is utterly ridiculous, odds are NM would still be alive if Bins hadn't brought him up in our QT N1, and there's like a whole mountain of association tells that basically confirm Bulge as town

lynching Reck or Akane is also pretty dumb to do, IMO. Not as ridiculous, but still really bad

[Parama]

like I'm pretty damn sure I'm gonna end up lynched tomorrow if Gamma's town, which might be for the better since I don't want to have to sift through everything to figure out which of those four could be scum if Gamma isn't

[Parama]

I read the junk you posted
I did a bit of ISOing overnight (mostly NM, you, a bit of Akane)
I wasn't really gaining any decent info by ISOing Akane though so I stopped
I would probably die before rereading 59 pages of this game tbh

[Parama]

pssst hey parama

hey

how does this post make you feel

How is Reck your only scumread? If that's the case, reread, now.
People in this game need to stop having this problem.

Yeah, if you take that out of context it'll look hypocritical, but the context is that at that point we *knew* there had to be at least 2 scum alive. It's not 100% anymore. And even if there are two scum left I highly doubt there's two scum among my four townreads.

So yeah, I'd be hypocritical if NM had flipped town, sure.

I remain woefully tempted to lynch Reck but I must stay resolute. I must be strong. The fate of the fate of the people depends on me. Somehow.

[Parama]

pissing contest of the thread #5 or so

[Parama]

like, I literally don't care anymore, if the game ends after a Gamma flip then I don't have to reevaluate my reads 'cause we're done
if the game doesn't end then I have a QT to weigh in my thoughts on stuff
'cause I'm lazy as hell. the point of waiting for Gamma to me was that if he *is* town then now we have more info from him and solid reads to analyze coming from a town perspective, plus more interactions with him pre-lynch.
I literally don't see a way for me to not lynch Gamma today unless someone else becomes confirmed scum in the next few days

[Parama]

Comments:
*I agree that the setup with only two scum and no mafiakill sans a vengeful is a pretty town-biased setup, but we don't know what the roles are and playing outguess the mod won't help us. I'm going to believe we have only two scum until there's evidence to the contrary, but play as if there were three to prevent some lylo crap from going down before we think it's lylo.
*Why are we commenting on how weird NM's vengeful kill is now, I brought this up in the QT already. It doesn't make sense to me but what the hell do I know.
*Re: Grib's role - If you know what an esper is relative to the flavor then the role's ability matches up with the flavor pretty perfectly. Just a thought. Does anyone else have any flavorful role names, by the way?
*Reck still just really hates Akane and that's where this whole argument is coming from. If the wording isn't 100% specific that Reck is, in fact, mod-confirmed town, then it's reasonable to hold some doubts, even if you don't act on them immediately. Reck's entire argument is basically that Akane is playing things cautiously, which is a nulltell.

P-EDIT: Oh good that ended quickly.

[Parama]

okay, so there are three scum, and you're one of them?

and yeah it's mostly about the end of D2, namely that Bulge was a counterwagon to NM/you and that Bulge tried to revive the NM wagon when it was dying out
I remember there being other posts in NM's ISO that gave me asso tells to think Quil/Bulge is town but I forget them atm and I'm too lazy to look

[Parama]

okay, why would NM bus Bulge then? Gamma was also a valid wagon at the time.

[Parama]

I'll get back to posting here eventually, soonish, dunno
not lynching Gamma literally makes no sense to me though

[Parama]

everyone else gives off more townvibes to me

except maybe you but that's normal

so???

[Parama]

i'm sorry that you haven't done enough to change my mind? i'm sorry that association tells entirely outweigh the content you've posted? i'm sorry that scum can make good posts too so making good posts doesn't automatically make you town again?

I don't know why I'm scum simply because you haven't convinced me you're town. That isn't my job.

[Parama]

if I had a full doublevote I could've easily claimed it and people would've had role-bias to believe I was town all throughout the game. plus game-long role-gambits are a lame as hell thing.
also, a scum doublevoter is a bastard mod role exclusively, especially in a mini.

parama it doesn't feel like you've tried. I've asked you to go into detail on bulge and you haven't, and your post saying that you wouldn't know what to do if i flip town followed by not seriously considering that i even could be town feels really awful. like im not expecting you to read me as town but i am expecting you to at least entertain the possibility.

whatever, I'll go through it then.
comment: if Gamma's town, then there's 2 scum left and they are Reck/Akane. Reck "forgot to use his action" n1 because he wasn't in a room with his scumbuddy. he didn't want to be in a room with his scumbuddy so he could put off the claim/maybe get someone else lynched as the "roleblocker" but he couldn't claim roleblocked with his scumbuddy in the room because there would be a higher chance of his buddy being lynched as "roleblocker". Akane was overeager to confirm Reck at the start of d3 but immediately realized she shouldn't make it a 100% thing, for two reasons; 1) if she was lynched first, Reck would look town by association because nobody else saw the confirmation PM and her not 100% confirming it could lead people to assume that it was actually 100% but she lied about it, 2) if Reck was lynched first, she wouldn't automatically be on the chopping block because she never "confirmed" him as town.

this is like some seriously stretchy crap though but it's about the only thing that makes sense to me if you're town, Gamma, and I'll apologize for being wrong on Akane if you are. either that convoluted logic case is true and you're town or basic association tells say you're scum with NM.

though this is like. an ace attorney case exactly isn't it. Gamma was arrested for committing murder but the real story is some huge master plan by two seemingly innocent unrelated people used to frame Gamma, except then that doesn't make sense because Reck is both the attorney and the murderer and that's a contradiction

unless

Spoiler: Ace Attorney Spoilers Oh Man

is Reck actually Kristoph Gavin IRL

anyways onto bulge.
mostly I already had goodvibes from Quil, both for his early game stuff and his frustration feeling really genuine. Bulge kind of put a damper on that with his posts against NM, which, while actually against scum, weren't very good arguments for it. But then you have the association in retrospect; why the hell would Bulge push a case on NM when the wagon was dying off? that's practically assisted murder of a scumbuddy. there's bussing and then there's insanity. even not arguing that the Bulge wagon was a counterwagon to NM (since that's not necessarily true, because...) NM held his vote on Quil/Bulge literally all day for no reason at all (a "scumslip" in the QT that he mentioned once and never brought up again or pushed on), and that just doesn't strike me as a scumbuddy randomly deciding to bus a partner nobody was even putting pressure on for no good reason at all. 1196 almost feels like NM was mudslinging against Bulge but that post and his initial vote are practically the only things he ever says against him; it does not feel like a scum on scum push to me.
I legitimately cannot see Bulge as scum with NM, it just makes no sense at all. If this is some supreme distancing action at work then... wow, sure, well played, but I just don't believe that it could be.

[Parama]

Primarily, this is why I don't want to lynch Gamma at this point. I just cannot fathom that Gamma is the last scum as a goon...

By the way, how to solve this problem:
Gamma is scum, as a goon, with NM and one other living player.
Now then, your primary reason for not lynching Gamma is gone. So.

[Parama]

just a thought, also; out of all the roles claimed/flipped, Reck's is the only one that is specifically an orientation aligned role; everything else could go either way quite easily.

[Parama]

Except 3:6 w/ a vengekill is still ridiculously scumsided. Town mislynches twice and is in LYLO.

3 lynches for town to win, 3 mislynches for town to lose, gain a lynch with 2 out of 3 scum lynches?

uh no.
ESPECIALLY if you ARE just a D1 doublevoter

I'm specifically debunking the full-time scum doublevoter thing you brought up. Don't be dense. You know what I was responding to.

Yeah Parama is definitely rubbing me the wrong way with the whole "lynch Gamma cuz setup speculation on it being 3:6" thing.

Because I was the one who brought up 3:6 in the first place wait no? I've specifically stated that I'm going to believe 2:7 until I have evidence otherwise, but play as if 3:6 in case of early lylo shenanigans. I'm bringing up a scenario in which your, specifically stated, primary reason for not lynching Gamma is a fallacy. And not a massively unlikely one either. I want to lynch Gamma for reasons I've already stated, MULTIPLE TIMES, not setup speculation.

The misrep is strong with you today, Reck.

[Parama]

Bulge and Bins both have strong association towntells w/ NM, mostly.
And I just can't be bothered to criticize the stuff you're posting because I dunno if it's even "bad" (to be honest I skimmed them, because can't be botheeed), just that from everything I've learned about the game up to this point, you make the most sense as scum out of everyone. I don't think a few content posts at this point in the game are going to entirely change that.

[Parama]

yeah admittedly I'm going to want to lynch you no matter what you do, but it's not really your fault at this point? if we don't lynch you today I'm going to end up doing the same thing tomorrow sans some shocking revelation. I pretty much came out of night 2 with intent to lynch nobody but you the moment day started, honestly

[Parama]

neat.

Gamma realized he couldn't wagon Akane and picked the only other wagon likely to get any momentum behind it, Reck is trying to setup speculate (as far as I know), Bulge is ??? I don't even know

My defense against this wagon, then, must be as follows:
Lynch Gamma. Holy hell is it really this hard.

[Parama]

your wagon was the towniest of the three and had the other two wagons on it, which set off red flags like hell., which is pretty much why I said that. to be entirely honest the NM vote was mostly just me being stubborn about moving it, I was kind of sheeping Kanny at first then she went and voted crappily.
and my "case" against NM was me ISOing him and coming to the conclusion that I had no goddamn clue how to read him mostly.

was my response to that, you never followed up on any of this and you admitted that it was barely a case in the first place
further justify your vote for me, please and thanks.

[Parama]

Hmm. I'm curious. Bins, from your interpretation of events, what are the points against me?

[Parama]

so you agree that there's no case against me. okay.
I just worry that if my Akane/Reck crazytown theory is right then she'll come in with some excuse to pull a 180 and vote me, but I probably shouldn't be that paranoid.

[Parama]

yeah, Gamma scum makes worlds more sense to me than an Akane-Reck team tbh, but there's practically nobody else I could see it being.
even then I don't know who could be a third scum with NM. It's not you, it's not Bulge, it's probably not Akane or Reck either. Which just makes me think... there isn't a third scum? Again gonna play on the side of caution, but. It just doesn't strike me as reasonable that anyone else is scum with NM.

[Parama]

I'm still super-ultra-paranoid about NM's shot also
I mean
If he knew Reck was town
And that he had this kill to use
Why wouldn't he shoot Reck? Or why not shoot someone else (specifically me/Akane) and break up a group from the doors thus preventing Reck from using his role and very likely getting him lynched the day after? But no, he shot Grib. That just makes me worry about Reck. It's a sort of transparent move, but it's not like he *could* shoot Reck if he was Reck's scumbuddy, so.

[Parama]

She probably wouldn't, it's probably Parama or you. Or The Bulge.

It's actually really just not me, Gamma, or Akane at this point. Will vote and lynch anything else.

like i dont think i could hit the disagree button more to this post

yeah p. much. I'd say the exact opposite and that anyone who has even a marginal chance of being scum is in the group of three that it "really just isn't scum".

[Parama]

lol jesus christ Quil is with NM in every one of those votes, is there like even the slightest chance he could possibly be scum omg (the answer is: no)
the 487 one is kind of irrelevant since he was being sheeptastic there though

[Parama]

reckoner was a little bitch about doorvotes

you're just noticing this now? xD

[Parama]

spell out the contents in ASCII

[Parama]

don't actually do that though

[Parama]

welcome to 999 mafia, Akane
abandon sanity. just. abandon it.

[Parama]

it just bothers me that most everyone in the game is playing a "focus on one recent thing, ignore everything else that happened in thread" kind of way
like
is that really how you should play? at all?

[Parama]

actually let's just lynch gamma

WELCOME TO ME AN ENTIRE WEEK AGO

[Parama]

well i'm dead now omg

[Parama]

[Parama]

akane is p. much getting a most enjoyable player nom after this game btw because like the only reason this game has been really fun is because of her, which is disappointing.

[Parama]

bins why are you on d1 again

[Parama]

10/10 out of context
that was in direct response to Akane's avatar change
go away gamma you're drunk

[Parama]

what are your current thoughts on Akane?

[Parama]

How does it specifically "not make sense as town", how isn't it just me being a stubborn dick?

[Parama]

i already earlier stated that the person second most closely tied to NM by association is me which makes me a likely target for a mislynch, since I'm pretty much the only person Gamma can even attack at this point, further re-emphasized by the fact that he tried and failed to push a wagon on you. I don't blame him for it but it's a pretty obvious move from my point of view.
and Reck is just sheeping Gamma because they're superpals and he's acting like he has reasons but he really doesn't.

[Parama]

comment: I've somewhat intentionally/unsubtly been irritating Gamma like this to see if he'd react as I expected, and sure enough

[Parama]

I went back to make sure I said what I thought I said and Gamma's pretty much lying about me "not reading" his posts; I skimmed them, which is to say, got the general gist of what was being said without reading too deeply into all of it. Which is different from "not reading".
I dunno if I was ever trying to be convinced though because from my point of view this game literally cannot progress without your lynch. I'm like 95% on you being scum simply by association tells/PoE.

@Reck: Do you see a difference between the way Parama is pushing on Gamma and the way I am?

I'm actually not reading those posts.

Hey look Gamma Reck's not even reading my posts, clearly he's 100% ultra-confirmed scum.
HARDCORE DEFLECTING OH MAN mostly to say that you don't really have an argument.

and Reck is just sheeping Gamma because they're superpals and he's acting like he has reasons but he really doesn't.

how about literally anything I posted about setup like five pages ago because that's really what it is

Reminder: This was and is a terrible idea. And is basically exactly what I said anyways. You say this is your justification but you're just sheeping Gamma.

but if we are going off of content

today

then gamma's stuff looks like EONS townier than Parama's so

goldfish as hell
You literally changed your mind off of one post anyways. Gamma was scum we were going to lynch after he posted a bit more content, then he posts one thing and suddenly he's confirmed town to you.

[Parama]

Reck after Gamma's first post D3:

and since i'm the probable lynch anyway give me til late saturday night and i'll go through the game again and splatter my thoughts on the wall before I die at least

this is very scum

Reck prior to becoming a goldfish:

I think you're scum

given your game posts yesterday.

Reck immediately after Gamma's content post:

I really don't want to lynch Gamma now.

UNVOTE: Gamma

That was pretty town IMO. Last remaining scum Gamma would've given up and not bothered.

this is like, literally the definition of a BS read
he doesn't even say anything about it, except "meta"
unless Gamma's post was a magical spell to turn Reck into a goldfish, which I guess is possible

[Parama]

I'm going to make goldfish/goldfishing an official mafia term because it's a problem that's always pissed me off and there's never been a term for it

[Parama]

yep, that's definitely a post you made

[Parama]

oh okay

Parama: "Reck gave no justification"
Me: "Yes I did because I spent a whole page talking about it"
Parama: "Nah"

fin

reminder: this is exactly what I'm saying is invalid, so I'm going to continue asserting your lack of justification until you actually give one

[Parama]

re: pissing contest #7:
I think he means it's irrelevant to his alignment, if he has more shots then whatever and if he doesn't then whatever

[Parama]

also, he doesn't have more shots anyways, because he specifically stated earlier that it was one-shot

[Parama]

funny, it's almost like a pattern