Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[Gammagooey]

oh i might actually have to change my mind on gribs for a thing that may resemble a reason

if you can pretend i never made this post and respond to the first one anyway that'd be pretty cool and interesting though

[Quilford]

Parama, please ask yourself: If Reck was town, would I have to be walking him through how to play the game?

[Grib]

How much of the Quilford/Reck mess is actually important. Serious question.

Gamma, your read on me was super vague and now it's just gone? I'm almost disappointed.

Yeah I'll write more stuff tomorrow.

[xRECKONERx]

then make a case based on stuff he said before then, because if you thought he was scum when you voted him then obv you have reason and you can, y'know, tell people these reasons

- When he "catches up" in post 63 after not posting, all he has to say is basically what I said about not bogging us down in bullshit setup spec/talk. He just parrots something non-content-related that I said on the first page of the game.

- After voting for Akane because her "theory talk is too general" (I don't really know what that means and I don't think he does either), he immediately throws mud on Parama but leaves himself an out. "Parama is so aggressive! That's odd. But maybe it's just playstyle..."

- He claims the first 2.5 pages were just theory babble that had been resolved. By the end of page one, people were engaged in non-theory discussion. He absolves himself of having to actually have an opinion on things by just categorizing it all as theory talk and ignoring it.

- Most of his posts are either him parroting someone else/fueling a fire already burning, or taking pot shots at someone (particularly me).

- While he's engaged with me and actively scumreading me, he leaves his vote on Akane (who I am arguing with, and who is tunneling on me).

- Throughout me/Akane going at each other, NM supposedly agrees with Akane, but also takes time to agree with me/find fault with things Akane says as well. It's all positioning to set up a lynch on either of us.


However, reading through his ISO, there is also some stuff there that gives me pause, like his reaction to the yonce VT claim, and his D2 speculation on the scum room kill mechanic. But there's also a lot there to dislike. I could probably find a stronger case on someone else, honestly, but his wishywashyness in regards to me/Akane D1 didn't sit quite right with me.

[xRECKONERx]

Parama, please ask yourself: If Reck was town, would I have to be walking him through how to play the game?

Oh is that what you're doing, you smug prick? Because I'm fairly certain your points don't hold water. As I've explained.

[Parama]

How much of the Quilford/Reck mess is actually important. Serious question.

[Quilford]

Parama, please ask yourself: If Reck was town, would I have to be walking him through how to play the game?

Oh is that what you're doing, you smug prick? Because I'm fairly certain your points don't hold water. As I've explained.

No, that's what Parama's doing.

[Quilford]

i.e.

then make a case based on stuff he said before then, because if you thought he was scum when you voted him then obv you have reason and you can, y'know, tell people these reasons

[xRECKONERx]

1) You're assuming the replacement will be active
2) You're assuming chronic inactivity isn't a scumtell in itself
3) There are reasons why Jackel is scummy that aren't inactivity related

1) Yes, I am. Because it's Gamma. And because if the replacement

isn't

active, then

the moderator will find another replacement who is

.
2) Chronic inactivity isn't a scumtell. Seriously? Seriously. This is a point you're trying to make...that all chronic lurkers are scum.
3) I understand that. NM pointed out that cautious voting and overall timidness were reasons. But

THE LARGEST REASON

(you know, which is why I said 'largely' earlier) why the wagon exists is because Jackel wasn't active. I have a hard time believing that the bits and pieces of the case left behind after you remove inactivity from the reasons are enough to warrant the lynch right now.

lol lol lol no, I'm trying to say that IF YOU'RE TOWN you shouldn't be defending Gamma like he's your top town read if you don't have even a semblance of a town read on him. But you are. Hmmmm

I don't have a town read on anybody in this game. Literally nobody. I have reads that vary between "null", "scum" and "veryscum".

So why are you defending anybody at all?

Because the other option is to just sit on the sidelines and show up and prod dodge every 48 hours and play the night game?

You hadn't so much as MENTIONED Not_Mafia's name for 3 entire days when you made your posts defending Jackel. How was anyone supposed to assume you actually wanted him lynched at all?

Because my vote was on him. I didn't know my posting frequency stopped people from paying attention to the fucking votecount.

[xRECKONERx]

How much of the Quilford/Reck mess is actually important. Serious question.

Here's the TLDR of it:

Quilford thinks I'm scummy for not wanting the Gamma-slot lynched after Jackel replaced out. Apparently, this is because he has both independent scum reads on me/Jackel, and also an associative read on the two of us being scum together. I think this is absurd, and his post trying to paint me as scum for soft defending the Jackel slot is nothing more than vapid posturing with no merit behind it. We then proceed to dig into the points of the case, in which Quilford says I should've proposed an alternative lynch (my vote was on NM), and says I'm somehow wrong for assuming chronic inactivity isn't a scumtell (because that's fucking ridiculous).

[Parama]

Parama, please ask yourself: If Reck was town, would I have to be walking him through how to play the game?

playing like a moron is different than being scummy tbh
it's not like I don't want Reck dead but I also don't like doing stupid things like lynching a confirmable role
if he's alive d3 though that excuse is going to be dead in the water imo so wait until then for your precious blood

like his reaction to the yonce VT claim

I only bring this up because Bins has the exact opposite feel as you re: NM; Bins dislikes this specific post a lot but doesn't find NM too scummy otherwise (or so I think IIRC?)
why you do think the reaction is town?

I could probably find a stronger case on someone else, honestly, but his wishywashyness in regards to me/Akane D1 didn't sit quite right with me.

you just left yourself an out here, ftr

he immediately throws mud on Parama but leaves himself an out

so you just lost one of your points against him. either it's a scummy thing to do so you're admitting you did a scummy thing, or it's not a scummy thing to do

also the out in question pisses me off. "okay nvm maybe he's not scum but dammit I'mma lynch him anyway even though I am stating that there are people I could find scummier if I would bother to put in the effort for looking into"

1) Yes, I am. Because it's Gamma. And because if the replacement

isn't

active, then

the moderator will find another replacement who is

.

No, if Gamma is inaactive, the slot is dead.

3) I understand that. NM pointed out that cautious voting and overall timidness were reasons. But

THE LARGEST REASON

(you know, which is why I said 'largely' earlier) why the wagon exists is because Jackel wasn't active. I have a hard time believing that the bits and pieces of the case left behind after you remove inactivity from the reasons are enough to warrant the lynch right now.

Jackel never stopped being inactive so the entire case against Jackel still holds; does not mean it's a valid reason to lynch Gamma solely on the basis of his predecessor though, no point in even having a replacement if we're going to do that

Because my vote was on him. I didn't know my posting frequency stopped people from paying attention to the fucking votecount.

you're pretty much wasting you're vote if you're going to park it on someone and not vocalize any reasons why other people should join you

[Quilford]

your points are terrifically weak

'OH MAN I REALLY WANTED A NOT_MAFIA LYNCH ALL ALONG DUH PAY ATTENTION TO THE FUCKING VC' yeah, that's why you voted Not_Mafia, without posting a case on him, without having addressed him in the past at all pretty much, and then subsequently didn't mention Not_Mafia's name for 3 days, except to include him in door votes.

'I only defended Jackel so I had something to do', lol, yeah, aside from pushing one of the 'veryscum' reads you allegedly have. or even N_M

[Quilford]

2) Chronic inactivity isn't a scumtell. Seriously? Seriously. This is a point you're trying to make...that all chronic lurkers are scum.

Fuck your misreps.

I said 'chronic inactivity is a scumtell in itself'. I did not say that 'all chronic lurkers are scum'.

[Parama]

if something is a scumtell it is indicative of scum and thus anyone performing that act should be considered scum
so it's not really a big misrep, maybe a minor one making assumptions

[Parama]

i'm so glad we have activity again though
I knew we could do it guys, I believed in you all

[Quilford]

Parama, please ask yourself: If Reck was town, would I have to be walking him through how to play the game?

playing like a moron is different than being scummy tbh

Playing like a moron is Reck's scum strategy.

The guy has won Paragon of Mafia Hunters, for christ's sake. He does not play like a moron as town.

it's not like I don't want Reck dead but I also don't like doing stupid things like lynching a confirmable role
if he's alive d3 though that excuse is going to be dead in the water imo so wait until then for your precious blood

Uuuuuuuuuuuugh

[Parama]

i dun care about meta, and reck would be dead d1 if not for his claim, which is why its lifespan is swiftly ending
nobody really has a townread on him, i understand that, nobody wants him around
but i'm just stubborn

[Parama]

i don't even know what good reck being conftown would do for us anyways, i don't really plan to listen to him even if he is, would only help PoE things if anything

[Quilford]

if something is a scumtell it is indicative of scum and thus anyone performing that act should be considered scum
so it's not really a big misrep, maybe a minor one making assumptions

No, it isn't.

Performing a scumtell doesn't mean someone is scum. Hence the 'tell' bit on the end. It's something that scum would do, but it's not really convincing on its own. It has being committed in tandem with other scumtells as well. And Jackel was scummy for a range of other reasons. Chronic inactivity made it look like he was trying to lurk out of the spotlight.

[Quilford]

Anyway Parama the last thing I want to do is get into some sort of theory argument with you.

So we can disagree on the definition of scumtell, but that's the sense in which I was using it in my post.

[Gammagooey]

okay im going to rephrase a thing here

in the event of my lynch and <obligatory statement that says i'm flipping town that has no actual bearing on my alignment in this game whatsoever> the quilford-reck argument hour(s of clusterfuck) will predictably carry on to the next day and be a general pile of nigh-unreadable garbage and will probably be a major event in the outcome of the game with very little other reads that i can see going on beside that

and that's dumb, and shouldn't be a thing that happens, and godamn do i just not care about these arguments when talking about reads of other players in the game would be so much better for actually reading peoples alignments.

so how about those opinions of gribs and akane you guys. (reck you can skip akane unless its changed significantly in the last 12 pages)

[Gammagooey]

and yeah im probably missing a real big chunk of actual content still that probably has some opinions on them

don't care, details on them is a lot more helpful to me and i'd guess to other people here in the long run too

[Parama]

Grib is in the null-pool but I want to leave him alive for another day
Akane is p. much my strongest town read and my only paranoia is buddying but damned if I care atm

[Quilford]

I posted an Akane read a few pages ago.

I agree that Grib shouldn't be today's lynch. He's null.

[Quilford]

How much of the Quilford/Reck mess is actually important. Serious question.

Here's the TLDR of it:

Quilford thinks I'm scummy for not wanting the Gamma-slot lynched after Jackel replaced out. Apparently, this is because he has both independent scum reads on me/Jackel, and also an associative read on the two of us being scum together. I think this is absurd, and his post trying to paint me as scum for soft defending the Jackel slot is nothing more than vapid posturing with no merit behind it. We then proceed to dig into the points of the case, in which Quilford says I should've proposed an alternative lynch (my vote was on NM), and says I'm somehow wrong for assuming chronic inactivity isn't a scumtell (because that's fucking ridiculous).

by the way grib, i assume you know that you should probably be reading the 'mess' even if you don't particularly want to