Micro 448: Russian Roulette - GG
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Read post 4, think I've got it down. If all else fails I could just refer back to it.
Ebrim's pretty much right in terms of needing to throw shit at the wall and hope something sticks. However, blindly shooting for a few days is going to be kind of useless, because ika's said that the gun that kills won't be know to us. I assume then that the other two won't be known then, too. Not sure how he'll manage that but one should not underestimate the mod, ime.
I don't see how mollie's being unclear and I agree with her that we should be discussing and determining who should be shot, who the guns should be passed to, etc.-
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Cyrus Goon
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In post 84, SilverWolf wrote:In post 83, Elbirn wrote:In post 81, SilverWolf wrote:mollie seems townish and is suspicious of Nacho so I'd shoot there
I don't disagree about Mollie, but do you have any reasons of your own for thinking Nacho is scum?
Short posts that don't say much plus someone that knows him well saying he's scummy. That's about as good as it's gonna get right now. Cyrus and Grib haven't said much either. Tere I don't know. The rest I wouldn't shoot right now.
I tend to be quiet in the beginning of games.
Mollie is townish. So is Elbrim. I'm still thinking about Tere not even mentioning Mollie's suggestion of talking it through before pulling, although that seems to me to be more eager town than a scum move.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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I had no way of knowing you don't normally post that day, and SW and Nacho both said they wanted you dead for lurking... and they were both town, so I fail to see where that's a scumread. Furthermore, Mollie's said that lurkers should be eliminated right away, yet you're townreading her. So which is it? Is wanting you dead for lurking a scumread or not, because it's been demonstrated that two people who are town desired the same thing. Still feel it's an OMGUS read.
Elbrin is town. Tere is probably town. I think her pulling without much discussion was eager town, not scum. And she did have discussion, with Elbrin, the person she pulled on.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Hooold on. You're scumreading flames for effectively lurking (not participating in the game itself, only talking to ika and trying to figure out the specs of the game).
You're not being clear as to whether or not people wanting to take out lurkers is scummy or not, because like as not, you had one post where everyone else was participating by that point and you'd given absolutely no indication that you'd not be posting again for the rest of the day. Assuming you were lurking is not a stretch.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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In post 146, guille2015 wrote:I'm town reading mollie for some other reason, and it has to do mostly because I have played with her plenty of times. SW and Nacho, and mollie for that matter should know better as they know, or should know my posting habits.
I am not scum reading Flames for lurking. I normally don't care for lurking. I understand when players can't post or even those that choose not to post as a strategy. What I do care is for content. Compare the posts of SW, Elrbin, Mollie and even yours, with those of Flames. Basically his best post is the one after I shot him. Everything else is just fluff. Do you disagree?
You're not being clear as to whether or not people wanting to take out lurkers is scummy or not, because like as not, you had one post where everyone else was participating by that point and you'd given absolutely no indication that you'd not be posting again for the rest of the day. Assuming you were lurking is not a stretch.
To be clear. Taking out lurkers is not in itself scummy. But it is a very good place for scum to hide in and have an excuse to shoot. Also, take note that I found Flames scummier than you or Tere for that.
Yes, I do disagree. The mechanics of the game aren't just fluff, they're crucial to being able to play the game. I saw one post in his iso that I'd consider pure fluff. The last post he made was valid, as are the posts he made trying to figure out how to play the game. That's how I see it at least.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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That was amusing.
So ika, I've got a question I don't think has been asked yet (although I didn't reread the first posts so I may get mocked for this)... How long do players stay knocked out?
1 round. So this round guile can not recive a gun. After the guns get passed, he will be backLast edited by ika on Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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I... just deleted my post. Fuck my life.
tl;dr version: My reads on Mollie and Tere remain town, Grib's iso is a wasteland, Guile's got a dearth of posts but at least they're quality posts but there's one hinky part, Flames' iso isn't too great as most of it is role-neutral posts, and I'm really second-guessing my town read on Elbirn. Like,a lot.
I'm going to go lick my wounds and try that post again later. Hmph.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Okay, now that I'm not seething over losing that post anymore... this isn't going to be nearly as eloquent as it should be.
I want to get Elbirn's down because that's the bigger one. I'll get to Guile tomorrow. It's short.
So Elbirn... A lot of what I have are inconsistencies that have me WIFOM'ing you something fierce. Post 70 has you wanting to fire willy-nilly. Okay, fine, but 124 has you wanting discussion. Could just be that you either saw that firing for a few days wasn't a great idea, that discussion is better, or that you could see that you weren't getting the play you wanted.
If this was the only inconsistency, I'd overlook it and chalk it up to one of the three options I listed above, all of which are role-neutral at worst. But then in 129 you like me and Tere for being conservative and in 164 you're scumreading me for, to the best of my ability to discern, not giving a reason why I'm town-reading you. Why jump right to being scum? Why not ask me why I didn't give a reason (I simply didn't think to) and then decide if you believed me or not? That looked mighty like throwing shit at the wall and hoping it would stick, except I can see both scum and town doing that. You said that you're paranoid about scum townreading you; that's the town!Elbirn. Scum!Elbirn hopes that other players will jump on that and I'll start to trip up.
What really rubs me the wrong way is your exchange with Flames about scum having more information. I need to go back and get all of the post numbers, but when Flames accuses you of knowing which gun is which, you proclaim that nothing in the setup says anything about scum having extra info and, and this seems to be that you're trying to accuse him of scumslipping. But when he points out that the set up does include scum and 3p having more information, you never respond. Now, this is something that I'm WIFOM both of you over: Was scum!Flames trying to issue a challenge that you have no way of answering other than "No, I'm not scum"? Did town!Elbirn just forget/didn't see that bit in there, or did scum!Elbirn forget or miss it and was hoping to get something started on Flames that way?
Those two inconsistencies along with the exchange about scum/3p having extra information is really making me look askance at you. It's all WIFOM but it's there.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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@Guile: regarding your scumread on me. You still haven't addressed my rebuttal thatyou never said in post 36 that you didn't normally post on that day. How exactly were we supposed to know that you normally don't post and weren't lurking? This is not rhetorical and is the hinky part of your posts that I was talking about. Keep repeating that you found it scummy and I'll keep repeating that you never said that you normally don't post that day.
As for Grib, I meant what I said. His ISO is a wasteland. He's said that he's going to be posting (I will find the post if you want) so I want to give him a chance. Right now I don't like his lurking.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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I thought it was pretty clear they wanted you dead for not posting. I agreed with them. I forgot you were in the game, too. Everyone else except Grib was posting something by the time SW and nacho wanted you dead. They're obviously not scum, so your premise that the reason Tere and I wanted you dead is because we're scum is very, very obviously flawed. I believe Mollie did too, and you're townreading her. I'll get confirmation of that in a bit, but there's also the issue that yousaidthat the fact that you don't post on that day therefore you were not lurking was part of the reason you're scumreading me and Tere.
Follow-up post coming.-
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Cyrus Goon
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In post 96, Nachomamma8 wrote:I'd shoot the shit out of guille. In fact, once I attempt to kill myself a couple more times, I will be shooting at guille.
Mollie agreeing with a scumread on you. Her reset on her read on you cameafteryour second post in the game, and I believe Nacho's read on you came before that post. My interpretation of this is that she also wanted you dead after just one post, yet you haveneverlooked at her with the same tunnel that you're dealing with me. And Tere. And Flames, because there was no debate from you when I said I disagreed with you,andthe first time I called you out on this:
In post 142, guille2015 wrote:In post 137, Cyrus wrote:I'd like to know where guile's scumreads come from, too. How exactly is wanting discussion scummy? If you're talking about me sheeping SW, I threw that out there as a suggestion, nothing more. Right now it looks like an OMGUS read to me.
SW said, lets Kill Guille for lurking. You said, "I don't mind that move." and "Pull, hurt guile, pass to Elbrim like SW wanted?".Considering that Not posting for a day on a day I normally don't post is not really lurking. So, I'm suspicious of people who don't see that as a problem.
What's your read on Elbrin and Tere?
... you changed the subject to Flames, rather than reply to the fact that you stated that you were scumreading me for scumreading you on a day you don't post. That is literally what you said.
Which is the story? Did you scumread me because you didn't post on a day you normally don't post and I called it lurking, or did you scumread me for scumreading you after just one post?
And whydidyou change the subject to Flames, anyway?-
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Cyrus Goon
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In post 268, guille2015 wrote:I really didn't feel like going post by post on you. So, I responded in general.
Fine, Ok, so you question my take on Grib and Cyrus/Tere. I answered the grib one above. As for the other two? well, I am/was suspicious Now, not so much depending on how they play through the days. Still, I don't see what 36 is any reason to want me dead, and there is no indication from Cyrus and Tere that post 36 was their motivations like you mention. They were fine in killing someonethat wasn't available to respondor hasn't really said anything in the game, and I found that Scummy. Would have thought that regardless of who the target was.
Addressing this specifically: Here you say again that you are (or were) scumreading us because you weren't available to respond. "Hasn't said anything in the game" applies to Grib. He's got what, five posts? At least one of which is trolly and the others not even pretending to add anything to the game.
I do want to make it clear that I'm pressuring you because I find the inconsistencies I'm reading as suspicious, not because you were scumreading me.-
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Cyrus Goon
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That said, I don't think we've got time to wait on Grib to respond to the prod.
A sidenote: Flames, I totally agree with you that Guile's suspicious as hell. But I think Guile's scumread on Grib came after I said I was willing to shoot him. My previous read on him was PoE and I discounted it because I thought it was too early to use PoE. I don't think that point's quite entirely fair.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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1) You're calling it small part of your argument when it was the only stated argument at first, your only other argument her argument was tacked on after I pointed out that no one could've known your first, and now you're attempting to distance yourself completely from it. It's half of your argument at the least, and I find it incredible that you're attempting to convince me that the latter was your intended argument all along when it wasn't mentioned at all when you first posted your scumreads.
2) So then all of the pulling on ourselves are intended self-hammers then?-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Hey, what about me?
From my count, Mollie's town and Flames is probably town. That leaves me with Tere, Grib, and Elbirn as possible scum/3p. Out of those three, Tere is the only read I haven't second-guessed.
At this point I think it's only those three who still have hurts. I may be remembering wrong.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Rather than take it from the top I'm looking at interactions with Guile.
In 257 he takes back his read of Elbirn as the third party:
In post 128, guille2015 wrote:
Scum is within (Flames, Tere/Cyrus) and third Party (Tere/Cyrus, Grib/Elbrin)
For that matter, all of us who are still alive were in his "game solved" post, so he was trying to bus one of us here.
But here in 258 he likes Elbirn's entire 245 which was mostly a debunking of my thoughts on Elbirn up until that point and saying that he likes Flames' push on Guile.
266 says that his "game solved" 3p portion wasn't serious since he put "everyone" into it. Tere and I were already in the scum section. That leaves Grib and Elbirn as the "not serious" reads.
267 he says that he hasn't responded to one of Flames' posts because he's waiting on Elbirn. At this point I need to do an interactions from Elbirn's side because I can see this behavior as both buddying town and giving deference to a scum partner, but I don't think Guile would've been that obvious if he was giving deference to scum!Elbirn. He's all but ignored Grib other than to say that Grib's done nothing in the game, which is true. If Grib's scum, I can imagine that Guile wouldn't be too happy with him. I'm not sure at this point.
Then there's his back and forth with me about his argument inconsistencies.
Finally, in posts 355 and 357 he calls Tere on giving the gun to Grib. He's also practically ignored Tere, but I think it's notable that he said his scum reads were serious and Tere was listed as a scum read.
I'm going to do a post on Elbirn to Guile later. I'm not going to find anything in Grib's ISO and I really feel like Tere being listed as a scumread when he said that his 3p reads weren't serious is significant.
Feel free to give feedback. I wanna know what you guys think. Especially Elbirn. Do you think I missed something in this interaction read?Last edited by ika on Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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You know what? I lied. He said that Grib wasn't a serious read, then harps on him posting nothing worth noting, and finally targets Flames - a townie with only one other person defending him, iirc - an easy push.
Unless someone wants me to do that interactions read from Elbirn's side, I honestly feel that it's more likely that Grib is scum.
I'll wait a few hours before making my shot to get feedback.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Elbirn, is there anything else you could point at for Tere being scum?
My logic with that post was that his reads for scum were serious, but he said that his reads for 3p were not, hence giving him wiggle room to avoid coming down solidly on you or grib, since Tere, Flames, and I were the ones he had pegged for scum; am I making any sense? I'm not sure how to better explain it.-
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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Cyrus Goon
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In post 469, Elbirn wrote:Game needs more trolling. Some dead person be an agent of chaos pls-
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Cyrus Goon
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