Micro 514: Dealing With Dragons Mafia (Game Over)

[Vedith]

VOTE: Elbirn

Need to get that twitch looked at buddy!

[Vedith]

UNVOTE: Elbrin

VOTE: Kyndy

I know that you don't believe that it takes 6 to vote. And you know to announce if it is L1, this I am sure of.

[Vedith]

@Wisdom - So I understand your comment on kyndy with more of panic rather than a slip on the reveal. I'm not disputing the reveal because I have seen a few of her games.
However, she does know that it takes 5 people to lynch, because once again, I've seen a few of her games. Do you see this as a panic response to the comment about the L1 or no?
I'd be very interested in your opinion on this.

[Vedith]

Also, Firebringer seems to play like this a lot.
I wouldn't call it a troll play, it's more of an attempt on a consistent play overall, making him a hard target to read. His Mafia style gives it away too much though.

[Vedith]

@Wisdom - Shall I assume that you ignored my question, or would you like the benefit of the doubt?

But none of that matters because kyndy is town apparently

I don't understand this comment. Is this town apparently from your opinion? I've never been the fan of early suggestions of people being 'town'. I know that's how most people are on here, I just think it's an excuse for someone to work from that if they are scum.

@shaddowez - What's the main difference in Firebringer pushing to Elbirn pushing?
This seems to be a main focus of your vote.
I also don't understand how you used 2 different style of votes as examples for your vote?

[Vedith]

I wouldn't class it as pointless. It's something I wanted to know about yourself rather than Kyndy.
You obviously just don't have a justifiable answer, the way I see it anyway.
No answer is probably worse than the answer I expected you to give.

[Vedith]

I didn't say scum panic though.
You also haven't actually commented on the vote count slip since it happened.

So if I get this right, as you have already spoken about it, you don't believe that this was a town slip, but she is town for her reaction on the votes.

Phew, glad I cleared that up.

[Vedith]

Saying that it takes 6 to lynch.

[Vedith]

And which one do you think it is?
If you want me to go by the last time you comment on it, it will be a terrible excuse, right?

[Vedith]

Ah okay, so you think that it was a genuine mistake. I've got it now.
I fully disagree with this. She has been aware of the amount it takes to lynch in previous games.

Where was I going with this? Well, the fact that you originally doubted the 6 lynch comment and yet didn't mention it again looked like you were trying to keep a fall back net for if she was lynched and flips scum, like an "I should have followed up with that doubt I originally had."
But it's cleared up now, I just wanted to make sure loose ends were sealed.

[Vedith]

I'm not stating a scum read on you and if I feel that you are higher on my scum list, I'll say. I just don't want an opportunity to arise later in the game if she flips scum.

My main concern on scum reads will stick to Kyndy, and probably Gray/BP if they don't actually get involved and keep lurking.
Also not a fan of shaddowez vote reason as it stands.

[Vedith]

Well, Well, the 2 reasons seem a bit off for me. I did post this to him to ask before out little chat.
He originally votes Elbirn for disliking a vote. He gives an example vote where Gray jumps on the BP lynch, no reason apart from he is sheeping, with a vote from Kyndy that Elbirn disliked. I'm not disputing these 2 votes, I'm saying that these are different type of votes and using them as examples do not work.
He then says about Elbirn being pushy, but only mention of FireBringer is that he hasn't played with him. Surely if you don't know how someone plays you would question this play if you have it as suspicious on another player?

[Vedith]

Elbirn - why is kyndy's RVS vote that was "beginning a wagon" suspect, but Gray's vote in 7 isn't when it does the same thing (The B.P. voted Wisdom first in 5)?

I can't speak on Fire's play, since I haven't seen a game with him to know if he acts this way as scum or town.

Fair point. However, I was going by this.
I still stick to what I say on these points.

[Vedith]

He then says about Elbirn being pushy, but only mention of FireBringer is that he hasn't played with him. Surely if you don't know how someone plays you would question this play if you have it as suspicious on another player?

When you don't know someone and they do something that feels off to you, you can't tell if it's because they are scum or because they are just a weird person with a weird playstyle. As a result you can speak about people you already know much more easily.

Well, this is where we differ concerning this. I see you point, and yeah maybe this is the case with most people on here but I don't think that that voting for a specific reason should go to 1 person if others are doing the same.

It's basically the same as lurkers, but then this would probably side with your argument more, I would personally just address the lot with it.

[Vedith]

His comment about fire was in response to the discussion that started with this:

Is firebringer always this trolly?

and is irrelevant, so I don't get why you're mentioning it?

Well, it is relevant. Firebringer has been pushy too (you have already defended him on this to why he didn't question Firebringer, so I know your side of it) but I can't see personally overall why his only comment in this situation of Firebringer is that he doesn't know how he plays when he includes a fault on Elbirn that they both share.

And to stop us keep cross commenting - But he's using 2 completely different examples. Elbirn had a concern with Kyndy posting a longer RVS, not the person voting for or making a wagon. Gray's vote was just a sheep vote. So I don't understand why he puts them in the same category?

Okay - Again, not to crosswire so for your last post - Well it kind of does. He strengthens his case on Elbirn by saying about the pushy part, but just leaves Firebringer out of if even though he has the same reason. This to me is to do with his vote.

[Vedith]

Okay, so here kyndy puts the second vote on axxle. She doesn't appear to acknowledge beginning a wagon, and

rambles on with a needless explanation for her vote that...doesn't make sense. You have a friend that uses that name? Okay..?

This is the part that I mainly got out of the comment.

[Vedith]

How is "Lurk" considered a valid post?

[Vedith]

Sorry guys, I had a busy yesterday afternoon/evening.

UNVOTE: Kyndy

The post was good (163) and actually looks to have effort into the comments. However, I still really don't like the issue addressed previously and it would only take a couple of minor slips for me to jump straight back onto you.

@Kyndy - Don't you feel that Gray/Wisdom was easily town vs town debate? Gray was obviously looking for a catch and Wisdom took the bait. They both got frustrated in it and it didn't really accomplish anything.

@Gray - Fancy giving other reads? Also, why did you sheep on Betting so early?

@Wisdom - I don't really get the whole 'cool lynch' on Betting. It come across as originally more frustration from the discussion between you and myself and between you and Gray. It seems that you dislike his vote/opinion because it's on someone that you have a town read on. I won't be voting for him giving an opinion for his vote. However, I've not seen much else apart from throw some names out of slight town reads and vote.

@FireBringer - Can you explain your vote for Betting? I know why Wisdom is on but, but I got the idea that you are on it because he didn't react to your RVS?

@Betting - Any other scum reads you have?

I don't really like the Elbirn pointing as he comes a lot higher on my list (The good side) than others. I think that he's just trying to get in with Wisdom in general and wants some sort of approval, but that's just me.

VOTE: Axxle

I don't see your posts with anything coming out of them.
He comes across as trying to lay low but yet post comments that have no benefit.

I will review my vote if productive comments are seen from you (Since you haven't posted for a few pages).

[Vedith]

Not as much as I was hoping for. I'm happy with my vote at the time being.
Have a good birthday anyway.

[Vedith]

Another 2 pages where nothing was accomplished.

@BP - Would you like to go into detail more about Wisdom? I thought that he ended the last bickering with Gray being town, not obvious scum. Your last post indicates that Wisdom is trying to push on Gray (Even though he's not him him).
You also say that Gray has several reasons to come across as town for you. Anything else than him targeting Wisdom when he could target an easier target?

[Vedith]

I didn't say you see him being obvious scum. I was saying when Wisdom said Gray is obvious scum and then he changed it. The comment you said is this "wisdom comes off as scum for trying to write gray off as obvscum or a VI"
Now, Wisdom al ready said that he thinks Gray is town, right? Or did I miss something?

Several reasons means more than 2 - You only gave 1... Don't get me wrong. I get a town vibe from them both because they keep arguing over pointless things.

And that quote should have said - Your last post indicates that Wisdom is pushing on Gray as scum (Even though his vote isn't on him)

[Vedith]

I wouldn't say that his actions come across as dumb but more looking to bait scum.
I just think that Gray was too focused on a 'slip' response from Wisdom and kept trying to prod at him.
The fact the Wisdom got angry, rather than flustered just tells me town arguing with town (As I already said)

I'm not too much on the side of Shadowez coming across as scum, and he has only really focused onto Gray since the whole debate. He's scum hunting clearly and he's actually taking the time to go through the posts for information.

I need to do a full catch up later, and again I've not been fully involved on the site in general let alone the game due to recent situations. I apologies for that.

[Vedith]

I was going to do a catch up but I am now going to be V/LA
I'll put an hour or so in tonight once I get a chance though.

@Mod - I'm V/LA until Monday, with slight phone access

[Vedith]

Sorry guys, my internet has been real buggy going in and out.

@Wisdom - What is your actual role? I'm not familiar with this power therefore I see no lean on scum or town for it.
And why is it only for day 2, rather than any day? (Correct me if I read this information wrong)

@BP - I assume you mean my opinions on the lynching?
Between Shadow and Firebringer I would vote fire.

I also think theres only one scum left, not sure if he was bussed or not.

That's my reason for it. I know it's already been brought up but the fact that he made this comment should be discussed more.
Shadow is coming off as more town for me and although his comment about useless town/scum is inappropriate, it's not scummy in my eyes and I think that's a poor reason to put him above Fire.

Who do you think is more likely to have an unlynchable ability, town or scum?

Town. If there is 1 scum left it would be a wasted power by far. If there is 2 scum left, having a 1 day lynch immunity while there is also a traitor would mean town only get 1 mis lynch before being in deep trouble.
This is only if the power cannot be self used of course, but I can't see 1 scum left with a power to stop the lynch, it would again be useless and thhe would be lynched again the next day more times than not.

[Vedith]

I don't understand why he would think this. There's a chance for either 1 or 2 but yet looks like he is trying to decide already without even knowing what kind of powers etc there are.
It seems like a mis leading comment mainly.

[Vedith]

The fact that he is only focusing on Gray even though most people have a town read on him (myself included).
Too much of a hard push for scum imo.

Other opinions on people may still need to wait, I'm still really far behind on this site but I'm getting there.

[Vedith]

I'll have to review this shortly, but I'm sure that it's not just me that town reads him.
And I was supposed to vote for Firebringer in my first post so here it is.

VOTE: Firebringer

[Vedith]

@Elbirn - Remind me how you are cleared as town? Because you "shot" Wisdom?

[Vedith]

Yeah sorry about that. I'm only on a phone until tomorrow tor so let's see how it's goes. Well, I doubt that Elbirn is scum but I need to review more into it to confirm and I've thought Wisdom as town all game more or less. You have confirmed he is town anyway and I doubt that you would have pushed so much on Fire as scum. Would like to hear Shadow first but he's currently lower on the list as town for me.

[Vedith]

I'll let him speak first.
Is he L1?

[Vedith]

I'm Roxim VT.
Follow up post this evening.

[Vedith]

Well I don't know the fluff to this game. However, I'm not sure why Elbirn would have shot Wisdom anyway. I even said that Wisdom's power would be more suggestible to town because having 2 Mafia and a traitor with a lynch immunity (And 2 VT for town, although only 1 confirmed VT at this pont) is too one sided.
@Elbrin - What exactly convinced you to think Wisdom as scum? What post(s)?
BP is pretty convenient but would make sense if he is a Wizard to Elbrin's role?
Going by what Shadow said I would assume not a Wizard, but can someone clarify that?

[Vedith]

And then I decided idgaf. Lynch me, feel like smacked asses when I flip, and then lynch shaddowez. I don't have the time to argue this and it really doesn't matter because we won, unless you lynch vedith tomorrow which for fucks sake don't do that. But yeah I'm just gonna sit here and pout until game end.

The only person voting you is Shadow... What need is for this post?

[Vedith]

VOTE: shaddowez

Lets just end it.

[Vedith]

Why would she change her mind on that? It just seems so ironic.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't ever know what general targets you can and can't shoot from the beginning. I have no idea fluff wise but reading your posts, you obviously do so it wouldn't be hard to fake claim.
And we are going with town having 1 lynch immunity, 1 Vig (on Wizards apparently), 1 tracker and a BP?
Seems legit.

VOTE: Elbirn

[Vedith]

I would agree if it were a team of 3. We have had no signs of scum powers apart from the traitor claiming day talk (Which wasn't clarified).

The push you have done on people makes it obvious. I mean, you "shot" Wisdom and then automatically tried to get him lynched Day 3.

Tell me, what changed from yesterday to today to having this many town roles being acceptable?
Why did you not consider this yesterday?

I still see it as town favour.

[Vedith]

Even if the last scum has no powers, 3 scum in a micro still warrants town having power

Well, in this case, they don't.

And I would assume BP/Doc. I'm not sure how you don't see how shuddy the "Mod won't tell me who I can kill" to "Mod confirmed in during the night" is.

My vig ability flavor is named something along the lines of lemon juice and buckets of soapy water. It more specifically states that I can attempt to kill someone

I'm not sure why a Mod would only rely on knowing fluff to use the role correctly. (Which Elbrin does seem to know).

The game is fucking over. Lynch fucking shaddowez. If he's not scum I will give every town player in this game a hand job, and then you can mislynch me tomorrow for the loss.

And then I decided idgaf. Lynch me, feel like smacked asses when I flip, and then lynch shaddowez.

The heroic town play... Or not.
This was when only Shadow was voting him too...

There's not much else I can say over the situation, but it's pretty fucking obvious that Elbrin is bullshitting.

[Vedith]

Cheers for the game all.

[Vedith]

Yeah cheers for the game all. One of the most enjoy games on here so far. ^^
@Elbrin - If it helps, as town I would have thought that Gray was 'too town to be town' and taken the shot given the chance

@FB - Yeah when you were gone I thought it was over. "Do I try and get Elbrin to kill Betting or Wisdom on Elbrin". It was fun none the less

[Vedith]

Yeah I thought that but it was too late to take my vote off

I killed Gray as I thought there could have been a doctor and he was the least likely to be healed. And I wanted to keep Shadow alive as long as I could.

Betting as more of a chance over Wisdom

Kyndy was just random