Micro 514: Dealing With Dragons Mafia (Game Over)

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Axxle

His name's under mine in the list, and that made me uncomfortable.

[shaddowez]

I agree that kyndy's claim was premature, but something about it doesn't read as scum to me - definitely a gut feeling, nothing concrete. Her vote was an RVS vote, so I don't see the problem with it being a second vote, especially since it wasn't the first.

Okay, so here kyndy puts the second vote on axxle. She doesn't appear to acknowledge beginning a wagon, and rambles on with a needless explanation for her vote that...doesn't make sense. You have a friend that uses that name? Okay..?

Elbirn

- why is kyndy's RVS vote that was "beginning a wagon" suspect, but Gray's vote in 7 isn't when it does the same thing (The B.P. voted Wisdom first in 5)?

I can't speak on Fire's play, since I haven't seen a game with him to know if he acts this way as scum or town.

The overconfidence and tunneling of kyndy based on nothing but her RVS vote actually has me scum reading Elbirn.

Wisdom

- Give me reasons for your vote on Vedith.

Oh, and for now,
VOTE: Elbirn

[shaddowez]

Wisdom - Give me reasons for your vote on Vedith.

And I'd like more than just 57

[shaddowez]

Sheeping and not many posts are my main reasons at this point in the game.

Please feel free to look at timestamps and read my signature when attempting to use post timing/counts as reason for a read on me.

[shaddowez]

Technically it's EDT right now, but I didn't think the hour difference was worth me changing the signature two times a year

[shaddowez]

Also tell me why confidence is scummy plz

It's not necessarily confidence per se, but it's how it's being portrayed. The way you're doing it here reminds me of two separate games I've had where people that acted similarly were scum. I'm not saying that's evidence of you being scum, but its definitely skewing my view that way.

[shaddowez]

So confidence is a null tell, but the way it is shown can be scummy? I.e. it's my actions? If yes, what have I done and why is it scummy?

Yeah, that's probably a good way to put it.

In posts 11 and 20 you're pushing for people to sheep you, out of just an RVS vote. There's one posts worth of information to go on, which is barely enough to even make a viable argument out of, let alone enough to convince other people to vote on without some heavy influencing. The attitude that comes across in 27 is similar, though not quite as pushy. It seems like an attempt to establish an air of leadership and have people follow you without needing proof. Additionally, since it was right out of RVS, if kyndy does get lynched and flip town you have the fallback of "I didn't have a strong argument, you all decided to follow me blindly".

[shaddowez]

Hey all - this is a prod dodge, and I apologize! I usually have limited access over the weekend, and this weekend was worse than expected. I'll be back tomorrow night.

[shaddowez]

@shaddowez - What's the main difference in Firebringer pushing to Elbirn pushing?

Less frequency, as well as less pushiness(?) in his posts. While there was a "You should follow me" vibe in Firebringer's post, it wasn't the cocky attitude of "I know that so-and-so is scum" that I was reading from Elbirn's.

Rereading your argument, I just don't get it. All people have to do is ask what he sees and he's in a shitty situation.

I don't disagree. That means people have to ask, and considering how early it was there's going to be little fallout from a crappy read.

Is it me, or does Vedith look like he's going for straw man arguments? He's attempting to point suspicion for a specific reason while using supporting evidence of different topics.

Ugh, that Wisdom v Gray debate...or those, since there were technically multiples....the frustration really makes me want to feel like they're TvT, but my gut says it's not.

Gray is actually doing the exact thing that he keeps accusing Wisdom of doing - his main argument against Wisdom is that Wis just keeps restating things and giving facts that aren't active scumhunting; all Gray is doing is rehashing the same arguments against Wisdom over and over again. He's also tied up in the semantics argument, and isn't interacting with anybody else or trying to progress the game in any meaningful manner.

Liking Elbirn more with his recent posting, so I'm going to do this instead:
VOTE: Gray

[shaddowez]

Axxle's got active lurking going on, which has me leaning scum on him, but would really like to actually see him interact more before giving a full read (though if he continues to just active lurk, my read will continue to downgrade to full on scum).

Currently reading betting, will get back to you shortly.

[shaddowez]

Right now I've got a null read, leaning town on betting - weakish vote on me, but that has to be taken with a grain of salt, since, well, it's on me so of course I'm going to not like it. They're answering questions, but then they bring up discussing the list with Elbirn in 221 which they don't do until 239, though I do like the post. I also like 239 and 302. I'd like to see more from them to get a better read.

[shaddowez]

and isn't interacting with anybody else or trying to progress the game in any meaningful manner.

Incorrect.

and isn't interacting with anybody else or trying to progress the game in any meaningful manner.

Incorrect.

Actually yes, it's true.

I disagree.

Are you really arguing my stance that you're not interacting and furthering the game...by continuing to post useless responses that don't interact or further the game?

Anybody that reads Gray as town - could you please point me in a direction as to why?

Looking through Gray and Axxle's ISO's is interesting - insomuch as they haven't even mentioned each other (not that either of them have much content to begin with). I'm willing to switch to Axxle for a lynch, but would love to see a Gray wagon happen.

[shaddowez]

It feels like firebringers reads change with who the biggest wagons happen to be. Scum.

This doesn't appear to be true at all - firebringer put his RVS vote on The B.P., then hasn't changed it but has consistently read them as scum, up through his last reads list in 330. And as for reads themselves, I'd actually expect them to change during the game - scum would be the only ones to not change reads, as they already know alignments.

Considering I don't think a Gray wagon is going to happen tonight, I'll hammer.

P-Edit:

Or get beat to it.

[shaddowez]

Hahahahaha - just found this on the wiki:

Encryptors only affect their own factional chat

[shaddowez]

Ok looks like I was wrong about axxle. Guess that clears wisdom to an extent

Sooo....please tell me where you gave us your reads on Axxle? As a matter of fact, the only time Axxle shows up in your ISO outside of the quote of somebody else you're responding to is to say that his wagon has scum on it, which doesn't actually say you think Axxle was town.

I'm sticking with my latest read.

VOTE: Gray

[shaddowez]

Wisdom might be confirmed town? Okay.

Do you believe this, or are you just commenting on it?

I also think theres only one scum left, not sure if he was bussed or not.

This quote doesn't make any sense based on your other posts. If you only think there's one scum left, and you think B.P. is scum, then you know whether or not you think they were bussed. On the other hand, if Axxle wasn't bussed that only leaves Gray and myself, neither of which you've said much of at all at any point. You have Gray as null (with no reasons), and me as leaning scum (with no reasons).

I'd like to hear about your shaddowez read more. It might be the case that we're pretty much in complete agreement and it's just the mutual affirmation society

I'd like to hear more from both of you on your Shaddowez read.

Okay well I like what you said on him earlier, I read his iso and got a scummy vibe, he has no content and what he does have is wishy washy and takes no stances and is just bleh

So, you don't actually have a case on me and are just piggybacking BP's reasoning? Also, how is 375 at all wishy-washy? Gray is where I had my read at the end of D1, he did absolutely nothing to change my mind, so I voted him again.

[shaddowez]

See 383. It doesn't all revolve around Firebringer being scum. And given what you said above, would you vote him? And why do you read GrayFoxxxx as useless scum instead of useless town?

--PA

I did read that post, but was looking for more direct interaction. There's not a whole lot I can say to that post without just trying to defend your points, which would be a lot of time wasted, especially since you're showing (self-proclaimed) confbias.

As for Fire, yes I would be willing to vote him now. While I was null on him for a while, the post I called out in mine along with a reread has me reading him as scum. I thought about putting that in my last post, but decided to not bother just yet.

As for Gray, I'm not sure. I don't generally label people as useless town - definitely not right all the time, but I'm much more likely to read people as useless scum.

[shaddowez]

Well, I'll start out by claiming since I'm at L-1. I realized I did a crappy job this game given my role....I was thinking PR, play it safe. I'm the Stone Prince, Town Bulletproof. I also realize this is the scummiest claim, since it can always explain why I never died at night.

The B.P. and Wisdom are conftown now, so that leaves Vedith and Elbirn.

Elbirn and Vedith both voted for Axxle

and

Fire, so VCA is tough here. However, looking at Fire and Axle's ISO brings up different results. Together there's only 4 instances of Vedith being mentioned(one of which was quoted), and they're both reads of null leaning town or town, with absolutely no explanations.

Elbirn comes up 22 times, but a bunch of those are in quotes as well. There's more interaction, but not a lot of scum hunting. The quote that most specifically sticks out to me regarding Elbirn is this:

It can easily be town, I think scum don't favor playing as though they are confident it attracts unwanted attention

Unless anybody has a strong argument for Vedith, I'm going to
VOTE: Elbirn

[shaddowez]

shaddowez, what about that quote sticks out to you to indicate scum-Elbirn? What about the content of each of their posts, not just their interactions with flipped scum, one of whom might not even have known his teammates? What would you consider to be a strong argument for Vedith?

--PA

I'm honestly not sure what would constitute a strong argument for Vedith...if I could see one, I'd be more hesitant in my vote and putting more information out there. If anybody thinks that Vedith is more likely to be scum than Elbirn, I'm open to hear why.

As for the quote, it just pings me the wrong way. Fire isn't outright saying that Elbirn's play is town, but is making the case that scum wouldn't act the way I'm accusing Elbirn of acting.

A lot of his posts seem to be IIoA. His vig claim also makes absolutely no sense - he's been reading me as scum most of the game, and not so much on Wisdom. Why not shoot me instead of Wisdom?

Additionally, at this point I'm more inclined to believe Vedith's VT claim. 4 PR's out of 6 townies sounds a little heavy to me, even with the modifiers.

[shaddowez]

GG guys. I was pretty sure Elbirn was the last scum with the weird mod/claim issues at the end, but Vedith's hammer had me strongly reconsidering.

I also apologize to town for being a shitty BP