Large Normal 216 - Endgame

[ofrhz]

VOTE: xx

Would also vote max

[AP]

informed flubber - maybe informed of dva being a rolestopper, hence scum targeted her ?

Are you suggesting scum had pre-game chat? Because to my knowledge day chat is not allowed in Normals unless explicitly mentioned by the mod in the rules. If this is the case (no chat) then scum don't even know what info Flubber had, which is more reason to believe the wagon is mostly pure town.

[profii]

VOTE: DVa

Why.

That's a strange choice.

I'm still not liking Creature who made a weak swipe at Garmr and then just fluff posted the rest.

I don't like the Flubber wagon.

VOTE: AP

Shattiel and Seph are poor wagons imo.

Flubbernugget...i'm on the fence there. I'm struggling to get a proper read.

{Shattiel, Sephiroth, Garmr, Carcalilly}

These would be the four that come across as the most genuine and that i would be confident in calling town. Please don't ask for town-cases.

{Performer, Completly Trustworthy}

I would put these two players in the same bracket.
Their posting is competent and probing but nothing i couldn't see scum faking. They both come across are pretty strong players as well.
So, i have zero reason to scum-read them but wouldn't quite label them as town

profii

- town lean. I don't have any problem with him and he generally seems helpful and inquisitive. Doesn't come across as someone that would be particularly hard to read as scum

DVa

- probably town when i think about it. I think i have some real playstyle issues with his approach to people but ehh, Dva does seem to be genuinely scumhunting in his own way

xx2008

- hard to say. Reads are basic but he is a newer player. I'll put him on the shelf for now

Nosferatu

- seems town but he's intentionally obscure which is probably a playstyle thing. Hard to be too sure in the read.

RCEnigma

- i flip-flop a lot on reading this guy. I think my read here could hinge on some flips we get considering that read-list i highlighted earlier which i think is way off-base.

Flubbernugget

- I'm really struggling to get any proper read on Flubber here and i've tried a few times because of the wagon. I could see him being scum tbh though i don't feel strongly about it

Gamma Emerald

- wasn't too impressed with the catch-up to be honest. Came across as busy work that went nowhere.

Saudade

- *throws hands in air*
He's just lazy. I would lynch him.

-
Still have the same 3 scum-reads.

Creature

- made a poor start to the game and flailed like crazy when people asked him simple questions about his reads. He's just sheeping the confirmed town now and is not even giving reads anymore.
Propably just trying to stay quiet and let the heat die down on him.

AP

- He has very few scumreads I can find for someone that has written so many posts. I think some of his town reads that he was giving were overly simplistic and fake to the point where i have a hard time believing he was genuine about them.

ofrhz

- I explained here my problem with his early play. Since then he's done nothing but sheep the confirmed town. Could be lazy town i suppose but meh, feels more like low effort scum

I guess Flubber is happening.

I hate to be on the fence about it...but i'm completely on the fence

Going through Flubber's ISO, I don't think he was buddies with Creature, now Nero Cain.
He pushed hard and early in a way i think was unnecessary even if he was bussing.

It's hard to draw much conclusions about Flubber's later votes because at those points he was under pressure for a lot of Day 1 and may have thrown some distancing in there.

UNVOTE:

Just read Maxous ISO - there are approx 5 references to Flubber where Maxous says he is unable to sort Flubber - this is not unreasonable as I felt the same tbh - what I don’t like though is that that is the first point Maxous makes about AP but Maxous should understand that is a fair position given that’s 3 of us who apparently felt that way and there was probably more

Dunno if I should go safety vote xx2008 or just go balls out and call out Maxous for that potentially shady case on AP

[ofrhz]

the wagon is mostly pure town.

ya I think we should lynch off wagon today as well

[Not Known 15]

Vote Count 2.0

xx2008(2):Nosferatu;ofrhz;

Performer(0):

Carcalilly(0):

Maxous(0):

Garmr(0):

Saudade

Inferno390

(0):

Nero Cain

Creature

Shortaru

(0):

Sephiroth(0):

Nosferatu(0):

Gamma Emerald

FA_Q2

(0):

AP(2):Maxous;Performer;

Shattiel

DS

(0):

Completly Trustworthy(0):

Flavor Leaf(0)

:

profii(0):

RCEnigma(0):

ofrhz(0):

NoLynch(0):

Not Voting(13):Saudade;Nero Cain;RCEnigma;Shattiel;xx2008;Sephiroth;Completely Trustworthy;Gamma Emerald;AP;Carcalilly;Garmr;

Flavor Leaf

;profii;

With 17 alive it is 9 to lynch.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2018-11-22 16:00:00) or when a lynch is achieved.

[profii]

Maxous/Profii/Performer << One of these 3 is scum. I dunno which, but this early push on me feels unnatural

That’s another thing that bothered me - the thread has just opened and Maxous has gone from not posting much content in day 1 to flying straight in with a case on AP

Like I can’t be bothered to read up during night (busy IRL) so far I’m just reacting to people which is why I’m a bit scatty so far

Sure I guess people can make cases over night but what if that person got NKd - so that was making me think how did Maxous find all that so fast - perhaps planned

[profii]

VOTE: Maxous


Feels right

[RCEnigma]

Nos, myself, Nero, maxous, xx, sephiroth, shattiel, saudade. Do you have an order of preference ofrhz?

These are all the slots not on the flubber lynch eod.

[RCEnigma]

I will defend probably two of those slots, not including myself.

[profii]

I’ll go Maxous / xx / Saudade in that order

[Gamma Emerald]

scum:
strongman

Pardon?

[Performer]

because with a strongman, no way do I see scum team not killing FL.

You don't think a specific day modifier is likely? We already know from Dvas flip that that modifier is used in the setup.

I would speculate that regardless of modifier, scum team would kill FL if they had Strongman with only information on scum team members and roles.
If Flubber was informed specifically of dva being a tpr or even more specifically, a rolestopper, then that makes way more sense to me that they would kill her.

Anyway...I don't see what else I can get from this speculation but that's all I got as a note .

[Garmr]

This only hit me after flubbers lynch and I promised that I would reread you to get a clearer read on you but.

What up

Someone do me a favour. I pretty much stick to 13p games where there is typically 3 scum - what is typical here please? I want to work on the basis there are likely X scum until evidence shows otherwise

Do you really need to call a scumteam d1?

Do you think anyone could possibly do that?

No

Which is why I'm curious as to why you need to work from that basis

It’s probably the opposite - someone will say something like “X could be one of the 5 scums”

Then someone is all like “woah 5? 19p is usually 4 -

that dudes informed”

Etc

I just wanted to see what people’s opinions of “normal” is - more for later than rn

This I don't like as it's trying to explain creatures actions despite him saying earlier it's better to ask why.

I dont get this.

Profii made worthwhile accusations that people should be thinking about as the game progresses.

It's more the fact he was talking about finding out deeper intentions earlier but that post does the opposite. It gives creature a plausible intention instead of finding out what his is.

I think Creature is town for ~reasons~ I won’t disclose rn

am I making it difficult for you to vote Creature because my ~reasons~ are right?

I'm not sure if your post intended to come out this way but it sounds somewhat passive aggressive. I wouldn't know if your reasons are right it's still somewhat early game. Also I don't mind if you make it difficult for me it creates debate and information.

i like to bait a bit

I think I'm sheeping ofrhz jumping to a conclusion, could just be wrong,

but i wondered if you were informed

if you reacted in a way that might reinforce the ~reason~ actually being right.

we will find out later, still not worth a lynch right now

I had 2 thoughts:
The statement you made could almost be a trap because you made 15 posts - if I can read you correctly -right now- then you could go “

you must be informed”

Else you’re basically saying don’t scum read me please or I will shade the bejebus out of you

I kinda think that’s either a very carefully constructed ploy to shade me or you just mean how will I read you as the game goes on


Based a lot on that last post, I don’t think you were being intentionally conniving - but I had forgotten we have scummed together so I’m going to go read back and see what I think about that

My read on Creature is kinda reset because I dismissed my mason theory so I still think that’s a bit early to say

I assume you mean garmr (lol) _ I like what I see so far

FYI I think when RCE resigned Flubber to a compromise lynch it came across as

informed

There's two options I have thought of one

1.you mentioned flubber first who would be your scum buddy in this scenario and you were trying to get the informed information leaked through the thread by mentioning it multiple times.

2.You were hunting for for informed people.


Out of those two number 2 is flawed. Because if you were informed there was a informed person why not tell town you were informed of a informed person who may be scum? Since you were hunting them down.

[Performer]

scum:
strongman

Pardon?

ALLOW ME TO G U E S S

Spoiler: GE's role

MAFIA S T R O N G M A N

[Garmr]

@profi
I wanted to ask your reasoning before I made judgement.

[Performer]

informed flubber - maybe informed of dva being a rolestopper, hence scum targeted her ?

Are you suggesting scum had pre-game chat? Because to my knowledge day chat is not allowed in Normals unless explicitly mentioned by the mod in the rules. If this is the case (no chat) then scum don't even know what info Flubber had, which is more reason to believe the wagon is mostly pure town.

Based on my game experience onsite and Normal Review Group experience, pregame chat is provided in Normal Queue games...I might be grossly wrong but that's just my experience.

During my 2 scum games this year, 1 in newbie and 1 in mini normal queue, I've had pregame scum chat in both. So if flubb somehow had that knowledge from his role and provided it during pregame chat, then it makes sense scum targeted her above anyone else. Otherwise scum team has some bells loose in this game for not targeting FL or you , AP.

Also, the way you're reacting isnt what I expected if you're actually scum.......
UNVOTE:
*thinking*

[Performer]

Also AP...are you saying daychat and pregame chats are the same? It appears like that's what you're saying. Which is absolutely bizarre because you're a veteran, and this just looks a fake forced questioning.

Prechat
Day chat
Night chat

They're different.

AP is not off the hook. Waiting to see more as not everyone has chimed in yet.

[Garmr]

Also AP...are you saying daychat and pregame chats are the same? It appears like that's what you're saying. Which is absolutely bizarre because you're a veteran, and this just looks a fake forced questioning.

Prechat
Day chat
Night chat

They're different.

AP is not off the hook. Waiting to see more as not everyone has chimed in yet.

Wouldn't it be simple quick and direct to ask the mod if scum had access to pregame chat to cut short all these what ifs and buts?


@the mod
did scum have access to pregame chat?

[AP]

Also AP...are you saying daychat and pregame chats are the same? It appears like that's what you're saying.

No. I'm saying scum do not have day chat, so for them to know what Flubber knew they need to have had pre-game chat.

@Mod: Did Scum have their PTs open in pre-game?

[xx2008]

I don't have much time, but I'm curious why people are all of a sudden voting me without saying why.

[Gamma Emerald]

scum:
strongman

Pardon?

ALLOW ME TO G U E S S

Spoiler: GE's role

MAFIA S T R O N G M A N

So you spec that scum would’ve killed FL if they had a Strongman
But you also think one exists?
Can I try what you’re smoking?

[Nero Cain]

The thing is I don't want to read 50+ pages so someone needs to tell me what's going on.

[Sephiroth]

1437 actually does make me feel kind of weird about profii. That seems like an unreasonable amount of times to use the phrase informed.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Right now, I'm very suspicious of Profii because of his interactions with Flubber. His initial post in 48 doesn't seem natural, if someone ended up claiming someone was informed due to them saying a certain number of scum exist, I think it would be easy to argue against it. It doesn't seem threatening enough to me to justify making a post to prevent it later on in the game. Also, Flubber's response in 55 is weird, both Creature and RCE were speculating about the potential amount of people on the scumteam at the time, so him suddenly asking Profii why he wanted to guess a scumteam seems rather forced and out of place to me. The later interactions between them are also odd to be honest since it consists of them asking each other a large amount of questions which they don't really seem to read into much. However, they later went on to mutually defend each other as Profii didn't really vote Flubber until he was called out as not having a read on him and Flubber praised Profii in 144. Right now Profii is my most confident scumread. Even if it turns out that the scumteam had pre-game chat, I still think Profii is scummy.
VOTE: Profii

[Completly Trustworthy]

Two things I've noticed concerning the theory that the scumteam communicated with Flubber are in 103 and 455. In both posts, Flubber shades DVa randomly(he votes someone else in 104 for the first example and never follows up on his accusations for the second), that could have meant something.