Mini 2039: uPicketyPicketyPick Mafia Endgame

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Varsoon’s flavor is mastina

[Firebringer]

Oh shit my boi elbirn is here

[RadiantCowbells]

If it was he would have said "I am not literally a god of scumplay but I am a god of scumplay"

[Firebringer]

God I love that video

[mutantdevle]

Is his flavor "man who has to respond to every post" cuz I love varsoon but I dont love that wall :c

Ditto

[Nibbui]

Nibbui replaces Carcalilly

This is that shit I don't like. The WHOLE point of this game is that it's a U-PICK where YOU PICK the roles.
I can't fathom why someone would want to play as characters they DID NOT PICK.

I mean, you're overemphasing this a bit? If someone wasn't open-minded enough to like all kind of roles and instead wanted only to play very specific roles, we probably wouldn't play mafia game?

I mean, most of the time you don't get to choose what role or alignment you're going to play as. I replaced in because I wanted a more mechanical complex setup and I indeed wanted to fake claim or do some kind of gambit if I got to roll scum (I've a good time doing it).

Also, about the question if it was my pick or Carcalilly's pick, it was Carcalilly's I guess because I didn't get to pick anything. If there is info that Carcalilly should know and I don't, maybe we can fix that with the mod just telling me that particular info?

Your wall kinda...mmmmh, sorry to say this, but sounds a bit cherrypick at times? maybe it's because you needed to comment on all of that or something, but yeah, I'm not answering most of those questions or going to quote weird parts of it because idk what to do with it, it's too long and idk if this is common coming from you.

My vote on Chibi was really random though, and I voted Gamma to see if would keep asking questions and etc. By the way NSG pointing out her wiki for me, if I stretch it, might be very slightly town indicative but I feel that's just NAI. I think she said that because she knows I read and enjoy a lot of her games and games from people I find good as a certain alignment in hope of trying to learn something. Also I had just implied that I needed to see a recent game of hers as scum.

[ChibiBear]

Oh dear god. Okay so I'm going to do my best to try to reply to The Great Wall of Varsoon at some point but right now it's too early in the morning for that.

NK15's explanation of his MariaR/nightkill statement makes sense, but I can't 100% shake the possibility of it being a recovery from a slip up. It feels pretty genuine though? Plus the people who know him are saying that this is pretty typical of him. I think it's likely that his logic was from a town POV and just had an odd choice of terminology.

I don't really know what to make of the Miller claim, I was a Miller in my most recent game and avoided claiming until the final day because I didn't want to get insta-lynched on D1 or policy lynched later on. According to you guys and the wiki though it's apparently common practice to claim ASAP so I guess that I'm just

baaaaarely

leaning towards believing the claim at the moment. Miller is a pretty awkward role in normals but in a theme game with unusual roles it might actually be pretty interesting, I'm really looking forward to seeing what kinds of cool roles jjh came up with!

Ok I'm just rambling now to avoid having to actually read that wall. Ugh.

[jjh927]

Was hoping for a pagetop at some point but I guess I'll do a votecount here

[jjh927]

Votecount #2:

Player	Votes	Voters
Not Known 15	3	northsidegal, Nibbui, Elbirn
Firebringer	2	NicoRobin, ChibiBear
MariaR	1	Not Known 15
mutantdevle	1	Kokichi Oma
Not voting	---	Firebringer, RadiantCowbells, Gamma Emerald, MariaR, Varsoon, mutantdevle

With 13 alive it's 7 to achieve majority for the lynch

The day will end in (expired on 2018-12-16 10:00:00).

The rules for the first minigame will be revealed in (expired on 2018-12-04 10:00:00).

[ChibiBear]

Once again, another anti-town, content-devoid garbage sheep that I warned against earlier.

Well that's real nice, I can already tell we're going to get along.
Sorry if you don't like RVS but it's a thing that happens and I choose to participate in it.

How did it seem obvious?
What did he say to make it seem obvious?
Walk me through this like I am a child.

Why are you asking me and not Nibbui who came to the same conclusion?

"the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)"
So it's something that doesn't really affect town in a meaningful way neither positively nor negatively, and can be easily controlled. Getting a certain number of votes immediately jumps to mind. Or could be to do with deadlines, achieving a lynch before/after a certain time limit. I initially also thought maybe being targeted by a night action but that doesn't really fit.

'It's not a full-on anti-town quest lol. It's not a quest I can achieve by myself so I'd need to work with everyone to achieve it. But I can see a way in which it could make things go badly."
It's not inherently harmful to town but can result in something bad happening. Again, the things I mentioned above can all fit.

"I imagine that we are either going to achieve my quest condition naturally or we are going to come close to it and I'm going to be like "hey, can we quickly do this:" to achieve it. It would make more sense if I claim it."
"My quest isn't necessarily disruptive though, just that it could be."
So yeah. Between the things I came up with, getting a certain number of votes (Eg. L-1) seemed to make the most sense considering his descriptions. When I saw Nibbui come to the same conclusion I thought it was pretty cool since I'm not usually any good at logical deductions, but since he also came up with the same thing, that means my logic was probably sound.

I assume this is because of something to do with the character?

What character? I don't remember mutant claiming a character. I guessed it based on the above reasoning.

Maybe don't make obvious picks with easy solves for how they'd render into Mafia?
Like damn, son.

Uh, what? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. How does this make sense as a reply to my joke about Gamma 'revealing' my flavour? (And yes, flavour has a 'u' :3)

[ChibiBear]

Also an afterthought: You seemed to be against further discussion about the quest, why would you ask me to walk you through my thought process and dredge that discussion back up?

[Nibbui]

When I saw Nibbui come to the same conclusion I thought it was pretty cool since I'm not usually any good at logical deductions, but since he also came up with the same thing, that means my logic was probably sound

I feel successfully pocketed

can I town read you already?

[Nibbui]

actually nvm

I thought that if I said I was beginning to town read you as nonchalantly like that, if you said "sure" just as nonchalantly I would give you town points but...

It's page 6 so ofc you gotta question why or find it unnatural :/

[ChibiBear]

I mean I wasn't

trying

to pocket you, but I obviously will not say no to being townread!

I was away just now so I actually didn't see that first post until after you posted that 2nd one. Now that you mention it though, why

would

you townread me as a result of feeling like you're being pocketed?

actually nvm

I thought that if I said I was beginning to town read you as nonchalantly like that, if you said "sure" just as nonchalantly I would give you town points but...

It's page 6 so ofc you gotta question why or find it unnatural :/

This doesn't feel like something scum would say imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

Votecount #2:

Player	Votes	Voters
Not Known 15	3	northsidegal, Nibbui, Elbirn
Firebringer	2	NicoRobin, ChibiBear
MariaR	1	Not Known 15
mutantdevle	1	Kokichi Oma
Not voting	---	Firebringer, RadiantCowbells, Gamma Emerald, MariaR, Varsoon, mutantdevle

With 13 alive it's 7 to achieve majority for the lynch

The day will end in (expired on 2018-12-16 10:00:00).

The rules for the first minigame will be revealed in (expired on 2018-12-04 10:00:00).

@Mod Varsoon is voting for Not Known 15

[jjh927]

Votecount #2:

Player	Votes	Voters
Not Known 15	3	northsidegal, Nibbui, Elbirn
Firebringer	2	NicoRobin, ChibiBear
MariaR	1	Not Known 15
mutantdevle	1	Kokichi Oma
Not voting	---	Firebringer, RadiantCowbells, Gamma Emerald, MariaR, Varsoon, mutantdevle

With 13 alive it's 7 to achieve majority for the lynch

The day will end in (expired on 2018-12-16 10:00:00).

The rules for the first minigame will be revealed in (expired on 2018-12-04 10:00:00).

@Mod Varsoon is voting for Not Known 15

No he's not

[Gamma Emerald]

Responding to Varsoon's wall with post numbers so we don't create posts that break the site.

Spoiler: these are jokes

12: is this nihilism (it's probably not but I recently wandered into r/nihilism and it kinda messed with my head, as I saw something that made a fair amount of sense to me despite not subscribing to nihlism completely)
48: Wow you could NOT be more wrong on my Dank And Roper stance, I'm actually a big fan, in fact as I type his I've got music from the games playing).
74: people do the “greentext” thing even in places where greentext doesn’t work because the format still expresses the type of speech they’re trying to evoke.

2: This seems a bit anal about the whole thing. Yes someone picking and then replacing sucks because they don't get to play with a flavor they picked out themselves. But it feels like you're treating the as compromised just through this. I can see what you mean with FFT, and can call your comparison with the Murder at King's Landing game SAD ran which was also an anonymous alt game and iirc some players kinda pushed how far they could go with that, including a hydra that had some problems. fyi Carcalilly picked her roles and then flaked (which is a repeat offense, and probably will result in me not letting her into games I mod anytime soon), otherwise we'd have had need of a replacement a lot sooner.
9: I could answer these but I'll let them be unless they come towards me.
16: excited for several reasons, will try to rattle off as man as I can: role, a hype playerlist (and btw I know the origin of hype, idc I'll still use it), RC doing the same thing with firebringer me and DVa did in a completed game, being happy I get to play what I think will be a lolbalance UPick after Alisae leaving the promise of his UPick hanging, and excitement from various things I cannot get into without a mire of spoilers for a LOT of things.
Why are you being such a grump about fluffposting though? Are you seriously this meme?
21: A lot of this is fluff, but I'm not gonna let your grump attitude stop me from enjoying the game I want to play.
Getting into what I said to Maria, just because I'm asking about role things doesn't mean I intend to do things about them. I'll get into that down below.
The ChibiBear question has to do with my mire of spoilery thoughts and just my general mire of random thoughts, which has been swirling like crazy recently. One thing of which I think you might find cool: my mom and sister have convinced me to check out Steven Universe!
The Nibbui question was because Nibbui's statement made no sense and I was trying to parse it.
23: See below.
24: not the thing I've been pointing to, but why do you think MariaR is realclaiming as town? Nibbui just brought up fakeclaiming, why does that slip your mind?
29: I do NOT think MariaR is town as of this moment.
30: well our "RVS" seemed a little voting light, so I was encouraging more votes.
34: Yeah, I noted I gelled with your thinking in 32, although I didn't notice you saying anything about what you thought of mutantdevle for his theory.
35: good thought, though lacking in alignment indication.
37: I actually followed SU2 Mafia from around the midpoint, and iirc the Climax meter was another form of swing mitigation. So yeah I get what you're talking about.
44: Brings up something I didn't notice. why DID you ask that question, Nibbui? why does you having that at the top of your head matter?
39 & 46: So as I said, I had a quest in a past game where I could increase my usefulness if I was brought to L-1 and survived. This is the game, fyi.
49: your sarcasm radar must be broken.
52: this should go in the jokes section but this is addressed at me and the jokes section is meant to be skippable. I made that joke because one of Maria's alts is the character Sonia Nevermind.
55: noticing Varsoon playing the paranoia card a lot? Nagl.
59: Directed at NSG
61: I was like “ok, if it wasn’t a reaction test I don’t see much that I take issue with”. I was neutral on the vote pretty much.
64: I’m gonna give you the short version, if you want the long version just say so. A player who doesn’t play here anymore, Infinity324, has a consistent track record of reading me based on how engaged I was. I’ve broken free from that meta somewhat but I still believe that certain ways I behave are exclusive to one alignment over the other. For instance I will sometimes try to sit in the background as scum if I don’t like the way things are going or don’t want to upset the path of events.
81: For some reason I just find the way Varsoon is playing around Nico and the Miller claim awful.
79, 82, 86: This is serious. I’d definitely expect her to have a more emotive reaction to what I did.
89 and 92: Giving preferential treatment to Maria I see.
94: are you mocking me? I think you’re mocking me.

---

So I agree with a lot of Varsoon's theoryposting, but that is pretty prevalent which gives me an IIoA vibe, plus I feel like his grump-ness might be scummy. That grump-ness read is meta based though and I need to check it. Also the way he’s interacting with everyone gives me the feeling not everyone is starting at the same point for him, indicating hidden knowledge.
VOTE: Varsoon

[Not Known 15]

Nibbui replaces Carcalilly

This is that shit I don't like. The WHOLE point of this game is that it's a U-PICK where YOU PICK the roles.
I can't fathom why someone would want to play as characters they DID NOT PICK.
This reminds me a lot of my frustrations with my very own favorite-game-designed-and-run-onsite, Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia.
In FFT Mafia (which I designed, of course!), players were all given secret alt accounts to post from that aligned with the Zodiac signs that each represented,
Those players then double-drafted their roles in what was, really, honestly, the best draft phase that anyone has conceived of.
Basically, players had access to every JOB CLASS role in the game, but only knew the FIRST ABILITIES of each while having a somewhat nebulous flavor explanation of what the class does.
After the first phase of private picking, everyone learns ALL THE SECRET ABILITIES of the first JOB CLASS they picked and then they get to post and pick again at the end of that posting phase.
So it was this really involved semi-closed draft. Town, of course, tried to game it, but scum was secretly

Spoiler: Spoilers for that game, you should REALLY read it!

a thirteenth player hidden from the signup thread and the game list, who wasn't counted as a living player but could submit secret scum actions and recruited two players after the job class draft was over

.
Anyway, as you can see, replacements SEVERELY compromised the integrity of that game. It ran to completion, but it infuriated me that the anonymity of the setup was oft-compromised with replace-ins making it that much harder to actually read a slot, but, furthermore, those replace-ins were never a part of the semi-open double-draft, so it was like they had no agency over their role which was a huge part of that game.
Anyway, what I'm saying is, shame on you Carcalilly for replacing out. Or eating a ban. Or whatever happened. I mean, I guess I get if IRL stuff came up and bit you in the ass but if you just made picks and replaced out for no good reason, gross.
In fact;

@MOD: Did Carcalilly make the picks for that slot or did you let Nibbul make the picks?

I thought this game would never start

Me too! I was surprised it finally did. I've been pretty excited for it, but yeah, it is a U-Pick, so it makes sense, especially given that JJH had to design these interesting and multifaceted roles.

VOTE: Firebringer nice scum entry

Why do you vote FB here? I thought it took a long time for the game to start, too, but that doesn't make me scum.
Seems like a pretty NAI thing to push, I don't understand.
Are you just reaction fishing? On Firebringer? One of the most volatile players in the game?
It really looks like you're kicking a wasp's nest and hoping that people will blame the wasps for being violent.
I'm gonna keep an eye on how you try to handle game momentum moving forward.

nice rvs vote

Good shit on calling that out but I wish you'd be more critical.
Posts like this don't give me much more insight into your alignment;
I'm tempted to call it town, because it's so Firebringer devil-may-care attitude, but I think you might just play that way regardless.
Do you actually have some criticism of this vote or how do you think of it? I'm reading this as sarcasm, btw, but when I look at it further...
You absolutely deny the vote any weight by calling it out as an RVS vote, like, that they don't have legitimate reason to vote you.
It's interesting that you'd do that, but we'll see if that sort of denial and sarcastic survivalism is indicative of align or not, I suppose?

nice rvs vote

...
scum 1 found.
Sheep me.

This is trash. If everyone just sheeped you on this petty interaction, we'd have no info at the end of D1.
What I take from this is that you're trying to give your vote pressure and reassert it as meaningful after Firebringer's denial.
I can get the town mentality of doing so (trying to reaffirm pressure) but the means of doing it is so anti-town that right now I'd rather vote you than FB.

I would sheep u if I wasn't a wolf.

Ugggh openwolfing and pooky-tells are supposed to be my thing, Firebringer.
But on the real, I'm reading the further sarcasm and nonplussed response as you letting the vote and double-down roll off your back.
You're being consistent, at least, which feels better than not.

I'm curious if Not Known 15 will be as critical of this post as Firebringer's entry.
Same thing goes, but in case you didn't catch it just above because that was directed at Firebringer:
I was surprised the game finally started!
I've been pretty excited for it, but yeah, it is a U-Pick, so it makes sense, especially given that JJH had to design these interesting and multifaceted roles.
This post rings more as joyous at the start whereas FB's seems a bit more 'ugh it's about time' kinda stuff
So I imagine you got a role you're excited for, or even an alignment?
What's the optics on Gamma's enjoyment of playing each alignment?
Does he like playing scum or town way more than the other?

Can we vote for past jjh?

VOTE: past jjh927

Ngl I'm already loving my role primarily because it looks like the mod properly researched into my obscure picks. My minigame flavour is just perfect. So thanks for that jjh

It's wild that there's already a bit of an interaction happening on-page so far and you've decided to ignore it ENTIRELY to push this vanity-joke.
I don't get it.
I do appreciate the flavor and role design so far, too, but I really want you to focus more on the game.
You continuing to deny that seems like a further denial of the severity of NK15's vote, which is in-line with Firebringer's approach.
Lightly thinking you two are in the same camp, at least, mentally.
Won't be surprised if FB likes you.

Also, your mod colour hurts my eyes on maf silver

I play on Mafsilver too and the mod color literally requires me to highlight the text.
That said, your continued avoidance of actually engaging with the game bothers me a ton.
I don't think it's a huge deal at this point but if I was given a gun and asked to shoot someone out of you three posters so far, I'd shoot you every time.

@MOD: Consider using a mod color that looks fine on the various Mafiascum.net templates.
For instance, white looks neat on MafBlack but is completely illegible on MafSilver.
Just something to consider.

past jjh is dead. this is currernt jjh which will soon also be past jjh who will die.

we should instead vote for future jjh but future jjh will never come because when it is the future it will be the current and then past and we all know the past is just history and history is dead.

so we can't lynch anyone when u think about it.
our past selves aren't our current selves and we aren't ever our future selves until it becomes current and then it will pass and the idea of the self is kind of a touchy subject, not even sure if there is such a thing of the self and we are all just in mass delusion that a self exists for convenience.

Yup, called it. FB's engaging with Mutant's off-topic post. Reads as further vote-distancing.
But it's pretty postmodern to acknowledge that your past self is not your current or future self even.
This is why we write shopping lists, because we know right now what we need, but we are acknowledging that our future self will not know despite still being 'us'.
It's some pretty Derrida-level stuff, actually factually.
If you actually are interested in this stuff and aren't just shitposting, I suggest reading 'Signature Event Context': http://lab404.com/misc/ltdinc.pdf
Goes a lot into writing as a representation of communication of the self of the past, which arises from an acknowledgement of the absence of that self in the future.
It's like 25 pages of verbose, ambling French translated into English so I'll save you the scrying and just grab the best bit of it:

What are in effect the essential predicates in a minimal determination of the classical concept of writing?
1) A written sign, in the current meaning of this word, is a mark that subsists,
one which does not exhaust itself in the moment of its inscription and which can
give rise to an iteration in the absence and beyond the presence of the empirically
determined subject who, in a given context, has emitted or produced it. This is
what has enabled us, at least traditionally, to distinguish a "written" from an
"oral" communication.
2) At the same time, a written sign carries with it a force that breaks with its
context, that is, with the collectivity of presences organizing the moment of its
inscription. This breaking force (force de rupture) is not an accidental predicate
but the very structure of the written text. In the case of a so-called "real" context,
what I have just asserted is all too evident. This allegedly real context includes a
certain "present" of the inscription, the presence of the writer to what he has
written, the entire environment and the horizon of his experience, and above all
the intention, the wanting-to-say-what-he-means, which animates his inscription
at a given moment. But the sign possesses the characteristic of being readable
even if the moment of its production is irrevocably lost and even if I do not know
what its alleged author-scriptor consciously intended to say at the moment he
wrote it, i.e. abandoned it to its essential drift. Ar:; far as the internal semiotic
context is concerned, the force of the rupture is no less important: by virtue of its
essential iterability, a written syntagma can always be detached from the chain in
which it is inserted or given without causing it to lose all possibility of functioning,
if not all possibility of "communicating," precisely. One can perhaps come to
recognize other possibilities in it by inscribing it or grafting it onto other chains.
No context can entirely enclose it. Nor any code, the code here being both the
possibility and impossibility of writing, of its essential iterability (repetition/alterity).

3) This force of rupture is tied to the spacing [espacement 1 that constitutes the
written sign: spacing which separates it from other elements of the internal contextual
chain (the always open possibility of its disengagement and graft), but
also from all forms of present reference (whether past or future in the modified
form of the present that is past or to come), objective or subjective. This spacing
is not the simple negativity of a lacuna but rather the emergence of the mark. It
does not remain, however, as the labor of the negative in the service of meaning,
of the living concept, of the telos, supersedable and reducible in the Aufhebung
of a dialectic.

Hello.

VOTE: Firebringer

Because there can only be one pirate in these seas. Ahoy, matey!

This sort of doubling down and bringing the focus back on the game at hand is great but I don't appreciate you grounding it in a less serious place and not addressing the game so far.
This is the sort of weak sheep that I was saying was anti-town just earlier.
Like, game-momentum-wise, this could be townie, but otherwise, I don't like this post very much.
Dukes up, Nico.

Firebringer I just wanted you to know how much your continued support has meant to me through all these years and I've thought about you from the sidelines but until this moment I've never really realized just how much I want to be with you.

Would you do me the honour of a dance?

Honor doesn't have a 'u' in it.
I also think it's wild that you intentionally acknowledge FB but not the two-vote wagon there or his interactions.
This sort of interaction reads really awkward but also strikes me as you not being the same align.
I take back my gun shot earlier. I'd shoot you now.
But, nah, really, waiting for you to WOW US ALL with your PERFECT READS, you GOLDEN GOD OF MAFIA.
You're off to a GREAT START that I couldn't possibly levy any valid criticism against, and even if I tried, it'd just be me being a HATER.
Wouldn't be surprised if you picked yourself, you narcissist.

Firebringer I just wanted you to know how much your continued support has meant to me through all these years and I've thought about you from the sidelines but until this moment I've never really realized just how much I want to be with you.

Would you do me the honour of a dance?

Someone is being unfaithful.......

See, this is why RC's post is so egregious to me;
I know that Nico will engage with it for fun factor
So it just drives the fluffposting
And distances further from the game at hand.
Don't fall for this nonsense, Nico.

It’s page one and I’m already so filled with glee

I'd appreciate it if you'd comment more on what's actually going on Page 1.
Once again, seems like another player snowed by RC's 'play' approach that capitalizes on FB's distancing.
FB can't call it out because they initiated and would be painted for it, but I can see what's happening here.

I don't think Sakura Hana will mind. I'll ask her.

Please stop this.
Play the game at hand.
If you have another post after this where you continue to not game-engage (especially if it's baiting Nico for fluff), I'm going to tunnel you until either one of us is dead.

This long awaited day has finally arrived!

past jjh is dead. this is currernt jjh which will soon also be past jjh who will die.

we should instead vote for future jjh but future jjh will never come because when it is the future it will be the current and then past and we all know the past is just history and history is dead.

so we can't lynch anyone when u think about it.
our past selves aren't our current selves and we aren't ever our future selves until it becomes current and then it will pass and the idea of the self is kind of a touchy subject, not even sure if there is such a thing of the self and we are all just in mass delusion that a self exists for convenience.

VOTE: Firebringer

My next existential spiral is scheduled for Wednesday, please don't mess up my schedule

Once again, another anti-town, content-devoid garbage sheep that I warned against earlier.
This does nothing to help sort either of your alignments.
Please step your game up.
Honestly, the fact that you've read up to this point and all you can do is offer a fluff-sheep, it makes me a lot more convinced of FB as town here.
Anyway, please, articulate yourself and don't fall for this garbage.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

I'll get you there, Maria.
Way to soft your secondary role enabling.
I'd take being in a PT with you, for what it's worth.
In fact.

@MOD: Can I have a PT with MariaR?
I'd like to ally with them a-la Steven Universe Mafia.

Thoughts on the game so far, MariaR?

Oh, I finally found a game where we can fakeclaim to our hearts's content!

VOTE: ChibiBear

People with cute avatars can't be trusted!!

Nibbul, did you make your own picks or did you inherit your replacee's?
I somewhat appreciate driving the game somewhere other than the Firebringer exchange but it bothers me that you'd avoid entirely.
Reads as conflict-avoidant. Dunno what that means for you, though.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

How soon we talking

@Chibi, wdym existential spiral?

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Gamma, please don't hint at a means of using your role, don't wanna give scum too much info here and guide their kill.
Though if you're scum, it makes plenty of sense for your to open-soft.
I don't see these questions as really helping you sort either slot.
Could explain how they do?
They both seem like questions that'll just generate more fluff posting.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

How soon we talking

@Chibi, wdym existential spiral?

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

ASAP

A$AP ROCKY
Hold up, bitches simmer down
Takin' hella long, bitch, give it to me now
Make that thing pop like a semi or a 9
Ooh, baby like it raw with the shimmy shimmy ya
Huh, A$AP, get like me
Never met a motherfucker fresh like me
All these motherfuckers wanna dress like me
Put the chrome to your dome, make you sweat like Keith
‘Cause I'm the nigga, the nigga nigga, like how you figure?
Gettin' figures and fuckin' bitches
She rollin' Swishers, brought her bitches
I brought my niggas, they gettin' bent up off the liquor
She love my licorice, I let her lick it
They say money make a nigga act nigga-ish
But least a nigga nigga rich
I be fuckin' broads like I be fuckin' bored
Turn a dyke bitch out, have her fuckin' boys; beast

...what a garbage flow. This is the dude's most popular song? Trash.
It really does make me respect the people who put in work and write bars that aren't misogynistic hoodrat shit.
In fact, I apologize for posting this. Doing all I can to get you into that PT ASAP, though!!

What determines when bad things happen, phases or irl time

This is a good question and I wish it was bolded at the mod so

@MOD: What determines when game events happen--is it real time or certain phases of the game?

I become death proof.

Convenient excuse if you're scum.
Why would you claim this?
As town, wouldn't you want to seem like you've enabled a strong part of your role and then DRAW THE KILL.
Mad shade on you for this, seriously.
I really do not like it.
But, ugh, I'm already committed to getting you into a PT.

Well from night kills that is

Mmmhm.
I really still don't know how to take this and it bothers me a ton.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Obviously.
Mutant bothers me with the blatant fish here, especially given their earlier play.
-1.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Well my quest has 2 parts getting into the pt is one. I'm already somewhat not killable at night but I know if I finish it it gets better

I still have no idea why a BP would ever out that.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Hi there Gamma

It's not about being reprehensible or not, I wanted to do it just because it's fun!! :'D

Seriously speaking though it's more of a pun since I love fakeclaiming as scum, but since I rolled town I might need to hold myself

Oh, also I have a xmas gift for you

VOTE: Gamma

We're not in RVS anymore.
Why the vote on Gamma?
Please explain this a bit more.

I become death proof.

I was expecting to have to dance around this more, based on a similar play Kokichi Oma made in Deja Vu Mafia (RIP). Thank you for providing these specifics, they make me much more inclined to aid you. While making you immune to some sort of a kill is kinda unsavory, it’s better bulletproof than Lynchproof as lynch is town’s main weapon while the gun is a more rogue tool.
Unfortunately I cannot aid you right now but I’ll do what I can to help. This is dependent on you remaining not-a-scumread FYI.

I appreciate Gamma being forthright here.
This is probably the one decent post in the game so far.
Like it's the only post so far I haven't gone, "Ugh."
Gamma, do you think we can trust MariaR?

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Hi there Gamma

It's not about being reprehensible or not, I wanted to do it just because it's fun!! :'D

Seriously speaking though it's more of a pun since I love fakeclaiming as scum, but since I rolled town I might need to hold myself

Oh, also I have a xmas gift for you

VOTE: Gamma

I already accounted for you not meaning it in a way that regarded fakeclaiming as reprehensible with the “whatever you believe” part.
So uh...what’s the pun? I see a rhyme, but no pun.
And thank you for your gift, I like votes of many kinds. Unfortunately votes on town are disliked so that sours the feeling a little.

This is a much more blatant hand-wave of a vote.
The insistence on being town is noted, though.
Same with engaging with fluff.
Still dunno to make heads or tails of this slot. :/

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Well my quest has 2 parts getting into the pt is one. I'm already somewhat not killable at night but I know if I finish it it gets better

Huh. My quest is a simple condition that needs to be met but I have no idea what it rewards other than my flavour submission.

I was thinking about whether it was worth all of us sharing what quest conditions that we have. That way, we can help each other to unlock our 2nd abilities. That said, we don't know whether each person we help could be mafia. So then, would it turn into only helping the people we trust? If so, then that might lead to some town discourse as different people want to help different people and others try to prevent some from reaching their conditions. Then there's the possibility that the mafia may be able to prevent us from completing our missions, especially if they cannot be completed within the day.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but, the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences). Naturally, if we follow this route, people are going to ask for help anyway if they feel that that's the best way to unlock their ability. That then treads into the territory of "so do we actually help this person because we might just be giving more power to the mafia".

I think the default soloution is the 2nd option as I'm fairly certain that was the way the mod intended. There's also the added benefit of being able to use the extent that people go to try and achieve their quest as AI.

If we all out our quests, then mafia also know who is role-enabled and can base their kills off of that.
I think it's much more in the spirit of the game for us to privately work towards our quests.
But you seem to have come to the same conclusions so
I think you might be town for that. Hm.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

It could always be 'Enter a PT with a town player' which a role that I would definitely design because I kind of have before in Steven Universe mafia games, which are entirely hinged around entering PTs with players in order to activate roles. I'd read it as NAI because I don't think that anyone's role-enabling, by design, would be alignment indicative.

So uh...what’s the pun? I see a rhyme, but no pun.

It's for myself, I'm egocentric enough for that yes

And thank you for your gift, I like votes of many kinds. Unfortunately votes on town are disliked so that sours the feeling a little.

...bout what?
I really with you'd share a lot more of your thoughts.
It's been hard to pinpoint very much at all about you.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

Whilst possible it could be she needs to be in a non-factional PT or some other way of phrasing that excludes a mafia PT.
I like your gusto though.

Coming to the same conclusions here, too.
I don't think Gamma and Maria are on the same scumteam if either is scum here.
Basically, Gamma would be complicit with trying to make Maria's needs look townie and has no reason to doubtcast this way if scum with Maria.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but,

the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)

.

I mean, if this is what I think it is, it kinda sounds like a scum quest to be honest.

I don't see why you would say that so easily though, I would expect you to be aware that it was a not-so-good-looking quest so...

maybe it's kinda a nice intention after all?

dunno :/

Enabling unknown factors in other player's roles should benefit us more than hurt us, regardless.
There's no way that scum have roles that will unfairly tip the balance of the game if enabled--that's awful design and if it is the case, then the game was somewhat compromised before it began.
I put trust in the mod, though, and believe fully that the interactions we get out of enabling and the likelier chance of enables being on town than scum means that the mechanic, in general, should drive engagement and be, ostensibly, pro-town. It does risk tilting role-info to scum and allows for clever scum to power up very fast but that's pretty much all it allows them so we're probably fine playing towards it.
I do get your own back-and-forth about Maria based on the sincerity of her posts, though.
+1.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but,

the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)

.

I mean, if this is what I think it is, it kinda sounds like a scum quest to be honest.

I don't see why you would say that so easily though, I would expect you to be aware that it was a not-so-good-looking quest so...

maybe it's kinda a nice intention after all?

dunno :/

It's not a full-on anti-town quest lol. It's not a quest I can achieve by myself so I'd need to work with everyone to achieve it. But I can see a way in which it could make things go badly. Don't worry though, I'm not stupid enough to fall into the trap that it kinda sets out. I imagine that we are either going to achieve my quest condition naturally or we are going to come close to it and I'm going to be like "hey, can we quickly do this:" to achieve it. It would make more sense if I claim it.

You have raised a valid thought though, do you think that the mafia are going to have specifically anti-town quests? Because if so, then that's a solid reason for everyone to claim their quests.

I don't think scum are going to have anti-town quests, just anti-town powerups.
I don't know that this discussion is fruitful, though, and I'm very against people claiming in a closed role-madness setup.

I guess the best way to describe my quest is “disruptive”. Don’t care to say more for now.
I think it’s possible but kinda don’t feel we’d be dealing with mafia having specifically anti-town quests.

I totally get this.
I actually feel like it's very likely that there's anti-town quests mixed about the whole of the setup.
Reminds me of my Bloodborne mafia where I rewarded town players for lynching other town players.
The idea was that if town roles get powered up with the loss of other town roles, it somewhat mitigates swing.
But that setup had other problems.

It's not necessarily "anti-town", but let's look at an example:

A quest that is about being put on L-1 that day but surviving.

It's not "anti-town" in the sense that will do permanent damage to town or anything, it just kinda looks like a scum quest.

Idk if it's a good idea to claim quests, because it may end up revealing what kind of role townies might have while scum can maybe fakeclaim?

Like, maybe it's not a bad idea but it's something to be thought a lot before doing. Also, although I'm quite confident that at least one scum may have a scummy quest, I dunno if all of them have scummy quests at all.

Also, sometimes townies may have a not-so-good-looking quest as well, it can happen that maybe someone with a quest similar to my example is town, and then not only would we be giving scum a lot of info, we would be clinging in to a sloppy rope.

JJH spent a lot of time doing the quests and setup, I wouldn't be confident that there is such a cheesy way to go about scum hunting.

If we get to know the quest of someone by other means though, it might not be a bad idea to wonder if it's scummy or not.

I don't think claiming quests is a great idea for exactly the reason you kind of came to here;
It's incredibly easy for scum to secretly fulfill their quest but to claim something absolutely false--shit, they could even claim stuff that makes town waste uses of their roles or puts town in compromised positions.
I would think long and hard before gating how you play and the actions you submit based solely on fulfilling someone else's quest.
I'm working toward's Maria's being fulfilled, but that's because I am fairly sure I'd get a lot out of having a PT with her and the only way it's waste is if she's some sort of PT-blocker or PT-based-killer but that'd all be incredibly evident after the PT stuff happens and would shade her as absolutely guilty.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

I do agree with this--wouldn't an anti-town quest be something like 'hammer a town player' or 'get someone to use their doctor action on you instead of another townie'?

And yeah, given jjh’s habit of picking apart roles I think he knows to avoid making something easily gamed.

I agree; let's put our faith in the mod and play as normal.

Nevermind

Pedit: Hey that's what I was about to guess!

I don't really see why that would be a scum quest in particular though.

Ditto. Please add more to the conversation besides parroting, Chibi.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Idk, just seems like the obvious conclusion considering what he said? I was thinking of the exact same thing.

How did it seem obvious?
What did he say to make it seem obvious?
Walk me through this like I am a child.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

probably not, the quest could very easily be "be added to another private topic" or something along the same vein. it's also possible that getting into a PT isn't part of her quest at all and is actually some element of her main role

although i am somewhat inferring that you're town from this post

VOTE: nk15

NSG, why the NK15 vote?
What do you think of my points on NK15 so far?
While I do come to the same conclusions you do, I dunno if this is you trying to keep a possibly town!maria from being townread for claiming or not.
Slight townread here but also paranoia.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Did you or did you not?
It's the first thing you posted, so there's no way of us knowing otherwise.
That much seems obvious.
Why the sudden flipping of the question?
Seems overtly defensive.
-1.

I guess the best way to describe my quest is “disruptive”.

Yeah, that's a better way of explaining it. My quest isn't necessarily disruptive though, just that it

could

be.

Hey, maybe don't tilt anymore here.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Exposure: I had that exact quest in a game I replaced into in order to make my role better. So I thought you read that game and saw it, or you were in it on another account.

Could you link that game?
I wasn't aware other games had 'quests' like this.
I mean. Besides my games.
Oh boy am I influential?
Please someone feed my ego.

Nevermind

Pedit: Hey that's what I was about to guess!

I don't really see why that would be a scum quest in particular though.

what were you saying nevermind to?

I'd like to know this as well but, NSG, aren't there more pressing avenues of investigation?
Why are you completely ignoring page 1's interactions?

Spoiler: Nevermind.

Thank you.
I always found Dang Ole Ron Paul to be cringy anime malarky.
I don't consider it good writing.
I don't like the character designs or aesthetic.
I don't get why people like it.
I have the same feelings about Higurashi; it's just trying too hard to be edgy and subversive.

I was about to also guess about the quest being needing to get to L-1 or L-2 or something similar but Nibbi beat me to it.

I assume this is because of something to do with the character?
For the record, people shouldn't claim their picks exactly for these reasons.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Exposure: I had that exact quest in a game I replaced into in order to make my role better. So I thought you read that game and saw it, or you were in it on another account.

Yeah, but that's not it to be honest, I naturally thought of it when thinking about not-so-good-looking quests, it's a pretty easy quest to come up with.

Can we move on from this conversation?
It's pointless and is taking up too much space.

Spoiler: Nevermind.

GDI Gamma don't just reveal my flavour like that

Maybe don't make obvious picks with easy solves for how they'd render into Mafia?
Like damn, son.

Nah I’d figure it would be MariaR’s flavor

What? Why?

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

Ditto on this, need an explanation.
+1 to Nibbul for driving the conversation away from shitposting and fluff, maybe they are tow--

nvm it's probably too soon for that

back to shitposting

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

-shrug-

i townlean you, mutant, and also maybe gamma. i figured that out of everyone who had posted so far, voting NK15 would be the most likely to have some sort of effect in helping sort him (along with his entrance being just sort of awkward enough for me to want to do so)

Can you go more into why you consider NK15's entrance awkward and worth voting for a sort?
Can you explain the townleans on Mutant and Gamma?
It seems like we're coming to a lot of the same conclusions here.
Which, on one hand, reassures me about you a bit, but
On the other
makes me noided AF.

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

(along with his entrance being just sort of awkward enough for me to want to do so)

yeah I was like

"if someone asked me who we should burn just based on entrance posts maybe NK15 wasn't a bad option huh"

but that's not a "reason" that we can discuss

voting NK15 would be the most likely to have some sort of effect in helping sort him

Mmmmh, maybe I'm being slow and I don't get it, but why? do you perhaps have experience playing with him?

Yeah I'm with Nibbul on this.
Please explain a lot more.
+1 to Nibbul.
Fairly certain Nibbul is lock-town here.

I'll help you with that as well

VOTE: NK15

I kinda get this.
Though I wish there was more questioning to prod NK15 into doing something.

yeah, a few games i think. i vaguely remember him overreacting to votes or something along those lines (i didn't really check)

And do you think that over-reaction would make his alignment clear?
Or is it liable to just get people ML'd and drive attention further away from the important parts of the game?

Mind telling why you think explaining the reaction test helps? I had a somewhat recent game where I saw someone was reaction testing me because I saw their post after posting about something unrelated to their test but still part of the game.

Who is this directed at?
Nibbul or NSG or both?

it was barely ever a "reaction test" in the first place, i just felt like voting someone and NK15 seemed like a good choice. the fact that i'm actually voting him and think that his entrance was awkward enough to warrant a vote has also not changed, so he's still that much actually closer to a lynch

I'm glad you stood by your vote and resisted shrugging it off as a reaction test.

Ok.

You're gonna accept that at face value?
What do you think of NSG's vote and open-pressure?

maybe and just maybe NSG is town.

I feel as if I've only seen her as town recently so I'm a bit afraid here though

NSG tends to obv-town though she's been really lazy lately so I dunno.
Why are you afraid?

i got my wiki up to date if you want to do more reading.

Gross.
Aint no one got time to be reading wikis.
Meta a trash anyway.
Why would you point someone AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND?
Just doesn't make sense to me.
Probably a playstyle thing though.

Are you activity telling me again -_-
I just read your PT for the coalition, and I object to the idea of a straight activity read. You can try to read me on engagement, I engage in different ways as town and scum I feel. But you can’t just try activity read me like Creature (which doesn’t work either).

Can you explain your history with people activity reading you?
I don't understand the context.

can't really activity tell you in the first 12 hours of a game. and despite what i said there, i didn't actually end up doing that.

What's informing your Gamma read then?

i got my wiki up to date if you want to do more reading.

Oh, that might help.

My to-do reading list is a bit rough here though, lots of people I don't have experience with or haven't seen enough of them.

Are you activity telling me again -_-
I just read your PT for the coalition, and I object to the idea of a straight activity read. You can try to read me on engagement, I engage in different ways as town and scum I feel. But you can’t just try activity read me like Creature (which doesn’t work either).

It's still amusing for me when you frequently post though (later or in the middle of the game)

it kinda feels like there is a elephant in the room and we might need to address it

I'm the elephant, right?
It's me, right?
No, really, what are you hinting at here even?

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

It's interesting that NK15 has come to this conclusion but problematic to me for a few reasons.
1. NK15 needs to drive attention elsewhere but isn't reacting to the votes on himself outright.
2. MariaR is likelier town than scum here even if it's sub-optimal play to claim bulletproof.
3. The outright condemnation without probing really seems like a mind made up rather than someone actually trying to gamesolve, which may be NAI, but isn't really pro-town to me.

Why don't you address the points against you, NK15?
Why don't you engage NSG?

I discussed all of those NK15. I don’t see why those are such atrocities?

Same. Good post by Gamma. Asking what needs to be asked.

I didnt even remember I signed up for this game till I saw the role PM.

Bad post is bad. You've got 70 posts to analyze here and you're posting this kind of entry-level fluff?
Let me show you how a real entry post should look, child.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

VOTE: mutant

Why arent you more skeptical?

Why aren't you?

talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

She does this as scum and town.

Anyone can do anything as scum and town.
Pointless.
You're adding little to the convo right now Kokichi.
Change that.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

>"Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill"
>"Wasting a nightkill"
>NK15 is thinking from the perspective of a night kill not working as being a bad thing

Gg ez
VOTE: NK15

Yeah, this is kind of funny if true.
Please don't try to greentext on forums where you can't.
It's unbecoming of you.
Do you really believe in this as a slip?
What about NK15's play otherwise?

Let's uh
Let's try that again.

HI VARSOON ARE YOU TOWN? ^_____^

That shit should be evident from when this post finally goes through.
Yeah you better fuckin build a house and get a job in me 'cus I'm town as heck.
What about you, Elbirn, my pal?
You town?
Thoughts on other slots, pls?

Yeah nk15 post was bad. But lets not lynch yet. We should do a mini game today

I agree, we should do minigames instead of turbo-lynching.
I'm willing to vote NK15 for a few reasons but I'd much rather spend the day phase sussing things out.

It was bad but I'm trying to debate if he really belives it or not

Howso?

Oh, and I am a Miller.

Aren't you always?

You ignored my joke ;-;

What does ignoring the joke tell you about their approach to play here?

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Please don't fluff-engage.

Oh, and I am a Miller.

So, like this is supposed to be 100% trustworthy? I heard this in a past game but have minimal clue as to the actual validity. Although it’s possible there’s a connection between that and this because jjh and Nico were both in that game (Nico as Carnelian, who flaked) and iirc were in two slots that were both Miller.

It's really, really hard for me to believe Nico claiming miller.
I'll take it at face value, though.
There's no reason to believe an investigative check doesn't yield a guilty on Nico.
People are best served using such checks on other players anyway.
Nico will sort themselves out.

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Eww
Maria might be Mafia

Go on?
Are you still joking around here or is this earnest?

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Eww
Maria might be Mafia

WAT. THAT WAS LIKE THE MOST NAI POST IN MY ISO.

Are you still joking around here or is this earnest?

Oh, and I am a Miller.

You're an eternal miller

Basically what I mean with my earlier posts re:Nico.
What do you make of the claim otherwise, Kokichi?

Wait do you guys have like roles? I just have a flavor wtf

You should have 1 role and 2 flavor-roles that can become real roles.

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Eww
Maria might be Mafia

WAT. THAT WAS LIKE THE MOST NAI POST IN MY ISO.

I’m not merely judging off what’s in that post. Either becoming a listmod changed you or thus is way too serious compared to the Maria I know, who would get upset at the joke or something.

Is it alignment-indicative?
If not, pls drop it.
Catching up is hard enough without having to consider the validity of Joke posts.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

Okay good but that doesn't diffuse the possible situation.
Please just address Gamma genuinely moving forward.

Wait do you guys have like roles? I just have a flavor wtf

You should have 3, one of them with the role explained and available
Do you not?

Setup is designed such that he does, don't let him trick you otherwise.
I think it's more likely Kokichi just didn't read right or something.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Yeah, jokes in games never are. Leave em for someplace else.
I'm tryin'a win this game, not make jokes.
Even if I am one.

Oh ok. Nvm. You guys should rig the mini game so I win.

I think everyone wants to win the minigames.

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

Fairly certain multiple roles unlock based on this.
Let's just have an actual competition to win them instead of colluding.
This sort of proposition is way worse than Maria's "someone put me in a PT" sorta thing.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Na you just don't get my amazing humor.

<3
I kinda got it
But seriously.
Please focus on the game.

mutant is town along with a hidden sr and tr I do not feel to name atm.

Why's mutant town here?
Explain how you came to that conclusion a bit more?

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

That only works if you win twice
The first time you win you unlock your own role
Unless you somehow just got no roles at all, which is kinda sketchy.

Yeah, ditto, think that a lot of people/everyone has a role that unlocks solely off of minigame
Since that's THE FUCKING SETUP.
"16. If you win a minigame, you will unlock your minigame role PM.
17. If you win a minigame and your minigame role PM is already unlocked, you can choose another player who will unlock their minigame role PM.
18. If you finish your quest, you will unlock your quest role PM."

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Na you just don't get my amazing humor.

Shooting someone down like you did isn’t funny, it’s insulting.

And if it's not alignment indicative, please drop it.
I'm tired of having to come back to this quote thread.
Damn.

mutant is town along with a hidden sr and tr I do not feel to name atm.

It's me.

I'm the hidden townread.

It's clearly me, Elbarn.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Na you just don't get my amazing humor.

Shooting someone down like you did isn’t funny, it’s insulting.

This is really ironic but I'm gonna not continue this conversation.
Pedit: Oh no

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

That only works if you win twice
The first time you win you unlock your own role
Unless you somehow just got no roles at all, which is kinda sketchy.

No I automatically unlock their 2nd role PM. I just need to win 1

Since you're already soft-confirmed for poor reading comprehension ("Wait we have roles!?")
Please re-read the setup and your role so we know you're not just misreading.

Oh no

Mars is a very bad place for love

Maria for once I townread you. I swearzies I'm not scum

Can you explain how you came to this townread and, furthermore;
Why are you insisting you're not scum here? Do you typically scumread maria in games where you're town and vice-versa?

Oh no

Mars is a very bad place for love

OH NOOOOO

pedit: Unlock my 2nd pm and you got a deal

I'll unlock u any day bby

Oh gosh what if Kokichi went for the easy pick and that became his normal, or possibly worse his quest role

Fairly obvious.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

>"Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill"
>"Wasting a nightkill"
>NK15 is thinking from the perspective of a night kill not working as being a bad thing

Gg ez
VOTE: NK15

Yeah no. A town nightkill is wasted because it could hit non-bulletproof scum instead( of verifying something that isn't towny in the first place).
The mafia nightkill is not in the hands of town so it is obviously not part of that verification process.

Cute that you're trying to twist this to being about a 'town nightkill' when in literally the site standard is that scum are the ones that do nightkills and town have 'Vigilante shots' and your original post that Elbirn took umbrage with only states 'Nightkill' and makes no clear indication that you intended 'town nightkill'.

Well, I'd still classify vigilante shots as nightkills. No, Mafia shooting a bulletproof vest is good, but that wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that it is nearly impossible to verify that BP vest without wasting a nightkill. Would mafia use their nightkill to prove that when its out in the open? No. Only a nightkill in the hands of town could do that, but that's suboptimal for town because it is only telling us that bulleproof was not a lie.
Which is kinda the problem with the claim here - openly claiming this is actually quite dumb for town, and MariaR isn't dumb.
No, this claim came from Mafia.

This away... the entrance from firebringer is bad because it is not committed. It is not a random vote. It's just stating the obvious in a careful manner. What I did was to make it an elephant from the molehill it was. It is not this bad. It is a slight scumtell, but not very reliably(but enough to push early) And the sheeping was... informative, at least. What gives me concerns more is post 12 because that is useless fluff like crazy. As such I don't really mind Chibi's vote on 18.
Nibbui is the first to vote somewhere else. And MariaR and the claim detract from that wagon early, too...
If we flip MariaR scum then Firebringer is very very likely scum as well. And based on Maria's play she is likely scum.

[ChibiBear]

Can we make a petition for Varsoon to stop responding to posts if all he's gonna say to them is a variation of 'Pls stop fluff/jokes'? He said that about like 10+ posts which is just a huge waste of space in a wall that's tedious enough to read as it is.

Pedit: Oh dear.

[Nibbui]

can we like...NOT quote Varsoon post?

It's already bad enough to skip it on pc, I don't want to even imagine what it's like to the guys using mobile

just say in the begin "Varsoon wallpost" or quote the specific part you want to talk, or something.

Quoting that isn't a good idea.

Also, remove the wall when quoting the last post of NK15 please :/

[Nibbui]

Which is kinda the problem with the claim here - openly claiming this is actually quite dumb for town, and MariaR isn't dumb.
No, this claim came from Mafia.

I mean, I get your point about Maria and that's something I thought as well.
However I can as well see town intentions to her post...maybe. Can you see it as well?
Also, try to not say anything that can possibly hurt town when answering this.

[Gamma Emerald]

-snip-

Hey dickcheese
Don’t quote the whole post if you’re going to respond to one small thing

[Varsoon]

Ya'll done done it. Here's the issue, though; When anyone quotes my entire wall post, I have to do another wall post like it and INCLUDE the previous wall posts in the damn thing. I also can't put ANY OF THAT behind spoiler= posts. So strap yourself in.
I'll try to make bold points for when I'm really trying to direct something at someone, so it's a little easier to skim, but here's everything so far...

Nibbui replaces Carcalilly

This is that shit I don't like. The WHOLE point of this game is that it's a U-PICK where YOU PICK the roles.
I can't fathom why someone would want to play as characters they DID NOT PICK.
This reminds me a lot of my frustrations with my very own favorite-game-designed-and-run-onsite, Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia.
In FFT Mafia (which I designed, of course!), players were all given secret alt accounts to post from that aligned with the Zodiac signs that each represented,
Those players then double-drafted their roles in what was, really, honestly, the best draft phase that anyone has conceived of.
Basically, players had access to every JOB CLASS role in the game, but only knew the FIRST ABILITIES of each while having a somewhat nebulous flavor explanation of what the class does.
After the first phase of private picking, everyone learns ALL THE SECRET ABILITIES of the first JOB CLASS they picked and then they get to post and pick again at the end of that posting phase.
So it was this really involved semi-closed draft. Town, of course, tried to game it, but scum was secretly

Spoiler: Spoilers for that game, you should REALLY read it!

a thirteenth player hidden from the signup thread and the game list, who wasn't counted as a living player but could submit secret scum actions and recruited two players after the job class draft was over

.
Anyway, as you can see, replacements SEVERELY compromised the integrity of that game. It ran to completion, but it infuriated me that the anonymity of the setup was oft-compromised with replace-ins making it that much harder to actually read a slot, but, furthermore, those replace-ins were never a part of the semi-open double-draft, so it was like they had no agency over their role which was a huge part of that game.
Anyway, what I'm saying is, shame on you Carcalilly for replacing out. Or eating a ban. Or whatever happened. I mean, I guess I get if IRL stuff came up and bit you in the ass but if you just made picks and replaced out for no good reason, gross.
In fact;

@MOD: Did Carcalilly make the picks for that slot or did you let Nibbul make the picks?

I thought this game would never start

Me too! I was surprised it finally did. I've been pretty excited for it, but yeah, it is a U-Pick, so it makes sense, especially given that JJH had to design these interesting and multifaceted roles.

VOTE: Firebringer nice scum entry

Why do you vote FB here? I thought it took a long time for the game to start, too, but that doesn't make me scum.
Seems like a pretty NAI thing to push, I don't understand.
Are you just reaction fishing? On Firebringer? One of the most volatile players in the game?
It really looks like you're kicking a wasp's nest and hoping that people will blame the wasps for being violent.
I'm gonna keep an eye on how you try to handle game momentum moving forward.

nice rvs vote

Good shit on calling that out but I wish you'd be more critical.
Posts like this don't give me much more insight into your alignment;
I'm tempted to call it town, because it's so Firebringer devil-may-care attitude, but I think you might just play that way regardless.
Do you actually have some criticism of this vote or how do you think of it? I'm reading this as sarcasm, btw, but when I look at it further...
You absolutely deny the vote any weight by calling it out as an RVS vote, like, that they don't have legitimate reason to vote you.
It's interesting that you'd do that, but we'll see if that sort of denial and sarcastic survivalism is indicative of align or not, I suppose?

nice rvs vote

...
scum 1 found.
Sheep me.

This is trash. If everyone just sheeped you on this petty interaction, we'd have no info at the end of D1.
What I take from this is that you're trying to give your vote pressure and reassert it as meaningful after Firebringer's denial.
I can get the town mentality of doing so (trying to reaffirm pressure) but the means of doing it is so anti-town that right now I'd rather vote you than FB.

I would sheep u if I wasn't a wolf.

Ugggh openwolfing and pooky-tells are supposed to be my thing, Firebringer.
But on the real, I'm reading the further sarcasm and nonplussed response as you letting the vote and double-down roll off your back.
You're being consistent, at least, which feels better than not.

I'm curious if Not Known 15 will be as critical of this post as Firebringer's entry.
Same thing goes, but in case you didn't catch it just above because that was directed at Firebringer:
I was surprised the game finally started!
I've been pretty excited for it, but yeah, it is a U-Pick, so it makes sense, especially given that JJH had to design these interesting and multifaceted roles.
This post rings more as joyous at the start whereas FB's seems a bit more 'ugh it's about time' kinda stuff
So I imagine you got a role you're excited for, or even an alignment?
What's the optics on Gamma's enjoyment of playing each alignment?
Does he like playing scum or town way more than the other?

Can we vote for past jjh?

VOTE: past jjh927

Ngl I'm already loving my role primarily because it looks like the mod properly researched into my obscure picks. My minigame flavour is just perfect. So thanks for that jjh

It's wild that there's already a bit of an interaction happening on-page so far and you've decided to ignore it ENTIRELY to push this vanity-joke.
I don't get it.
I do appreciate the flavor and role design so far, too, but I really want you to focus more on the game.
You continuing to deny that seems like a further denial of the severity of NK15's vote, which is in-line with Firebringer's approach.
Lightly thinking you two are in the same camp, at least, mentally.
Won't be surprised if FB likes you.

Also, your mod colour hurts my eyes on maf silver

I play on Mafsilver too and the mod color literally requires me to highlight the text.
That said, your continued avoidance of actually engaging with the game bothers me a ton.
I don't think it's a huge deal at this point but if I was given a gun and asked to shoot someone out of you three posters so far, I'd shoot you every time.

@MOD: Consider using a mod color that looks fine on the various Mafiascum.net templates.
For instance, white looks neat on MafBlack but is completely illegible on MafSilver.
Just something to consider.

past jjh is dead. this is currernt jjh which will soon also be past jjh who will die.

we should instead vote for future jjh but future jjh will never come because when it is the future it will be the current and then past and we all know the past is just history and history is dead.

so we can't lynch anyone when u think about it.
our past selves aren't our current selves and we aren't ever our future selves until it becomes current and then it will pass and the idea of the self is kind of a touchy subject, not even sure if there is such a thing of the self and we are all just in mass delusion that a self exists for convenience.

Yup, called it. FB's engaging with Mutant's off-topic post. Reads as further vote-distancing.
But it's pretty postmodern to acknowledge that your past self is not your current or future self even.
This is why we write shopping lists, because we know right now what we need, but we are acknowledging that our future self will not know despite still being 'us'.
It's some pretty Derrida-level stuff, actually factually.
If you actually are interested in this stuff and aren't just shitposting, I suggest reading 'Signature Event Context': http://lab404.com/misc/ltdinc.pdf
Goes a lot into writing as a representation of communication of the self of the past, which arises from an acknowledgement of the absence of that self in the future.
It's like 25 pages of verbose, ambling French translated into English so I'll save you the scrying and just grab the best bit of it:

What are in effect the essential predicates in a minimal determination of the classical concept of writing?
1) A written sign, in the current meaning of this word, is a mark that subsists,
one which does not exhaust itself in the moment of its inscription and which can
give rise to an iteration in the absence and beyond the presence of the empirically
determined subject who, in a given context, has emitted or produced it. This is
what has enabled us, at least traditionally, to distinguish a "written" from an
"oral" communication.
2) At the same time, a written sign carries with it a force that breaks with its
context, that is, with the collectivity of presences organizing the moment of its
inscription. This breaking force (force de rupture) is not an accidental predicate
but the very structure of the written text. In the case of a so-called "real" context,
what I have just asserted is all too evident. This allegedly real context includes a
certain "present" of the inscription, the presence of the writer to what he has
written, the entire environment and the horizon of his experience, and above all
the intention, the wanting-to-say-what-he-means, which animates his inscription
at a given moment. But the sign possesses the characteristic of being readable
even if the moment of its production is irrevocably lost and even if I do not know
what its alleged author-scriptor consciously intended to say at the moment he
wrote it, i.e. abandoned it to its essential drift. Ar:; far as the internal semiotic
context is concerned, the force of the rupture is no less important: by virtue of its
essential iterability, a written syntagma can always be detached from the chain in
which it is inserted or given without causing it to lose all possibility of functioning,
if not all possibility of "communicating," precisely. One can perhaps come to
recognize other possibilities in it by inscribing it or grafting it onto other chains.
No context can entirely enclose it. Nor any code, the code here being both the
possibility and impossibility of writing, of its essential iterability (repetition/alterity).

3) This force of rupture is tied to the spacing [espacement 1 that constitutes the
written sign: spacing which separates it from other elements of the internal contextual
chain (the always open possibility of its disengagement and graft), but
also from all forms of present reference (whether past or future in the modified
form of the present that is past or to come), objective or subjective. This spacing
is not the simple negativity of a lacuna but rather the emergence of the mark. It
does not remain, however, as the labor of the negative in the service of meaning,
of the living concept, of the telos, supersedable and reducible in the Aufhebung
of a dialectic.

Hello.

VOTE: Firebringer

Because there can only be one pirate in these seas. Ahoy, matey!

This sort of doubling down and bringing the focus back on the game at hand is great but I don't appreciate you grounding it in a less serious place and not addressing the game so far.
This is the sort of weak sheep that I was saying was anti-town just earlier.
Like, game-momentum-wise, this could be townie, but otherwise, I don't like this post very much.
Dukes up, Nico.

Firebringer I just wanted you to know how much your continued support has meant to me through all these years and I've thought about you from the sidelines but until this moment I've never really realized just how much I want to be with you.

Would you do me the honour of a dance?

Honor doesn't have a 'u' in it.
I also think it's wild that you intentionally acknowledge FB but not the two-vote wagon there or his interactions.
This sort of interaction reads really awkward but also strikes me as you not being the same align.
I take back my gun shot earlier. I'd shoot you now.
But, nah, really, waiting for you to WOW US ALL with your PERFECT READS, you GOLDEN GOD OF MAFIA.
You're off to a GREAT START that I couldn't possibly levy any valid criticism against, and even if I tried, it'd just be me being a HATER.
Wouldn't be surprised if you picked yourself, you narcissist.

Firebringer I just wanted you to know how much your continued support has meant to me through all these years and I've thought about you from the sidelines but until this moment I've never really realized just how much I want to be with you.

Would you do me the honour of a dance?

Someone is being unfaithful.......

See, this is why RC's post is so egregious to me;
I know that Nico will engage with it for fun factor
So it just drives the fluffposting
And distances further from the game at hand.
Don't fall for this nonsense, Nico.

It’s page one and I’m already so filled with glee

I'd appreciate it if you'd comment more on what's actually going on Page 1.
Once again, seems like another player snowed by RC's 'play' approach that capitalizes on FB's distancing.
FB can't call it out because they initiated and would be painted for it, but I can see what's happening here.

I don't think Sakura Hana will mind. I'll ask her.

Please stop this.
Play the game at hand.
If you have another post after this where you continue to not game-engage (especially if it's baiting Nico for fluff), I'm going to tunnel you until either one of us is dead.

This long awaited day has finally arrived!

past jjh is dead. this is currernt jjh which will soon also be past jjh who will die.

we should instead vote for future jjh but future jjh will never come because when it is the future it will be the current and then past and we all know the past is just history and history is dead.

so we can't lynch anyone when u think about it.
our past selves aren't our current selves and we aren't ever our future selves until it becomes current and then it will pass and the idea of the self is kind of a touchy subject, not even sure if there is such a thing of the self and we are all just in mass delusion that a self exists for convenience.

VOTE: Firebringer

My next existential spiral is scheduled for Wednesday, please don't mess up my schedule

Once again, another anti-town, content-devoid garbage sheep that I warned against earlier.
This does nothing to help sort either of your alignments.
Please step your game up.
Honestly, the fact that you've read up to this point and all you can do is offer a fluff-sheep, it makes me a lot more convinced of FB as town here.
Anyway, please, articulate yourself and don't fall for this garbage.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

I'll get you there, Maria.
Way to soft your secondary role enabling.
I'd take being in a PT with you, for what it's worth.
In fact.

@MOD: Can I have a PT with MariaR?
I'd like to ally with them a-la Steven Universe Mafia.

Thoughts on the game so far, MariaR?

Oh, I finally found a game where we can fakeclaim to our hearts's content!

VOTE: ChibiBear

People with cute avatars can't be trusted!!

Nibbul, did you make your own picks or did you inherit your replacee's?
I somewhat appreciate driving the game somewhere other than the Firebringer exchange but it bothers me that you'd avoid entirely.
Reads as conflict-avoidant. Dunno what that means for you, though.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

How soon we talking

@Chibi, wdym existential spiral?

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Gamma, please don't hint at a means of using your role, don't wanna give scum too much info here and guide their kill.
Though if you're scum, it makes plenty of sense for your to open-soft.
I don't see these questions as really helping you sort either slot.
Could explain how they do?
They both seem like questions that'll just generate more fluff posting.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

How soon we talking

@Chibi, wdym existential spiral?

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

ASAP

A$AP ROCKY
Hold up, bitches simmer down
Takin' hella long, bitch, give it to me now
Make that thing pop like a semi or a 9
Ooh, baby like it raw with the shimmy shimmy ya
Huh, A$AP, get like me
Never met a motherfucker fresh like me
All these motherfuckers wanna dress like me
Put the chrome to your dome, make you sweat like Keith
‘Cause I'm the nigga, the nigga nigga, like how you figure?
Gettin' figures and fuckin' bitches
She rollin' Swishers, brought her bitches
I brought my niggas, they gettin' bent up off the liquor
She love my licorice, I let her lick it
They say money make a nigga act nigga-ish
But least a nigga nigga rich
I be fuckin' broads like I be fuckin' bored
Turn a dyke bitch out, have her fuckin' boys; beast

...what a garbage flow. This is the dude's most popular song? Trash.
It really does make me respect the people who put in work and write bars that aren't misogynistic hoodrat shit.
In fact, I apologize for posting this. Doing all I can to get you into that PT ASAP, though!!

What determines when bad things happen, phases or irl time

This is a good question and I wish it was bolded at the mod so

@MOD: What determines when game events happen--is it real time or certain phases of the game?

I become death proof.

Convenient excuse if you're scum.
Why would you claim this?
As town, wouldn't you want to seem like you've enabled a strong part of your role and then DRAW THE KILL.
Mad shade on you for this, seriously.
I really do not like it.
But, ugh, I'm already committed to getting you into a PT.

Well from night kills that is

Mmmhm.
I really still don't know how to take this and it bothers me a ton.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Obviously.
Mutant bothers me with the blatant fish here, especially given their earlier play.
-1.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Well my quest has 2 parts getting into the pt is one. I'm already somewhat not killable at night but I know if I finish it it gets better

I still have no idea why a BP would ever out that.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Hi there Gamma

It's not about being reprehensible or not, I wanted to do it just because it's fun!! :'D

Seriously speaking though it's more of a pun since I love fakeclaiming as scum, but since I rolled town I might need to hold myself

Oh, also I have a xmas gift for you

VOTE: Gamma

We're not in RVS anymore.
Why the vote on Gamma?
Please explain this a bit more.

I become death proof.

I was expecting to have to dance around this more, based on a similar play Kokichi Oma made in Deja Vu Mafia (RIP). Thank you for providing these specifics, they make me much more inclined to aid you. While making you immune to some sort of a kill is kinda unsavory, it’s better bulletproof than Lynchproof as lynch is town’s main weapon while the gun is a more rogue tool.
Unfortunately I cannot aid you right now but I’ll do what I can to help. This is dependent on you remaining not-a-scumread FYI.

I appreciate Gamma being forthright here.
This is probably the one decent post in the game so far.
Like it's the only post so far I haven't gone, "Ugh."
Gamma, do you think we can trust MariaR?

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Hi there Gamma

It's not about being reprehensible or not, I wanted to do it just because it's fun!! :'D

Seriously speaking though it's more of a pun since I love fakeclaiming as scum, but since I rolled town I might need to hold myself

Oh, also I have a xmas gift for you

VOTE: Gamma

I already accounted for you not meaning it in a way that regarded fakeclaiming as reprehensible with the “whatever you believe” part.
So uh...what’s the pun? I see a rhyme, but no pun.
And thank you for your gift, I like votes of many kinds. Unfortunately votes on town are disliked so that sours the feeling a little.

This is a much more blatant hand-wave of a vote.
The insistence on being town is noted, though.
Same with engaging with fluff.
Still dunno to make heads or tails of this slot. :/

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Well my quest has 2 parts getting into the pt is one. I'm already somewhat not killable at night but I know if I finish it it gets better

Huh. My quest is a simple condition that needs to be met but I have no idea what it rewards other than my flavour submission.

I was thinking about whether it was worth all of us sharing what quest conditions that we have. That way, we can help each other to unlock our 2nd abilities. That said, we don't know whether each person we help could be mafia. So then, would it turn into only helping the people we trust? If so, then that might lead to some town discourse as different people want to help different people and others try to prevent some from reaching their conditions. Then there's the possibility that the mafia may be able to prevent us from completing our missions, especially if they cannot be completed within the day.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but, the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences). Naturally, if we follow this route, people are going to ask for help anyway if they feel that that's the best way to unlock their ability. That then treads into the territory of "so do we actually help this person because we might just be giving more power to the mafia".

I think the default soloution is the 2nd option as I'm fairly certain that was the way the mod intended. There's also the added benefit of being able to use the extent that people go to try and achieve their quest as AI.

If we all out our quests, then mafia also know who is role-enabled and can base their kills off of that.
I think it's much more in the spirit of the game for us to privately work towards our quests.
But you seem to have come to the same conclusions so
I think you might be town for that. Hm.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

It could always be 'Enter a PT with a town player' which a role that I would definitely design because I kind of have before in Steven Universe mafia games, which are entirely hinged around entering PTs with players in order to activate roles. I'd read it as NAI because I don't think that anyone's role-enabling, by design, would be alignment indicative.

So uh...what’s the pun? I see a rhyme, but no pun.

It's for myself, I'm egocentric enough for that yes

And thank you for your gift, I like votes of many kinds. Unfortunately votes on town are disliked so that sours the feeling a little.

...bout what?
I really with you'd share a lot more of your thoughts.
It's been hard to pinpoint very much at all about you.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

Whilst possible it could be she needs to be in a non-factional PT or some other way of phrasing that excludes a mafia PT.
I like your gusto though.

Coming to the same conclusions here, too.
I don't think Gamma and Maria are on the same scumteam if either is scum here.
Basically, Gamma would be complicit with trying to make Maria's needs look townie and has no reason to doubtcast this way if scum with Maria.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but,

the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)

.

I mean, if this is what I think it is, it kinda sounds like a scum quest to be honest.

I don't see why you would say that so easily though, I would expect you to be aware that it was a not-so-good-looking quest so...

maybe it's kinda a nice intention after all?

dunno :/

Enabling unknown factors in other player's roles should benefit us more than hurt us, regardless.
There's no way that scum have roles that will unfairly tip the balance of the game if enabled--that's awful design and if it is the case, then the game was somewhat compromised before it began.
I put trust in the mod, though, and believe fully that the interactions we get out of enabling and the likelier chance of enables being on town than scum means that the mechanic, in general, should drive engagement and be, ostensibly, pro-town. It does risk tilting role-info to scum and allows for clever scum to power up very fast but that's pretty much all it allows them so we're probably fine playing towards it.
I do get your own back-and-forth about Maria based on the sincerity of her posts, though.
+1.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but,

the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)

.

I mean, if this is what I think it is, it kinda sounds like a scum quest to be honest.

I don't see why you would say that so easily though, I would expect you to be aware that it was a not-so-good-looking quest so...

maybe it's kinda a nice intention after all?

dunno :/

It's not a full-on anti-town quest lol. It's not a quest I can achieve by myself so I'd need to work with everyone to achieve it. But I can see a way in which it could make things go badly. Don't worry though, I'm not stupid enough to fall into the trap that it kinda sets out. I imagine that we are either going to achieve my quest condition naturally or we are going to come close to it and I'm going to be like "hey, can we quickly do this:" to achieve it. It would make more sense if I claim it.

You have raised a valid thought though, do you think that the mafia are going to have specifically anti-town quests? Because if so, then that's a solid reason for everyone to claim their quests.

I don't think scum are going to have anti-town quests, just anti-town powerups.
I don't know that this discussion is fruitful, though, and I'm very against people claiming in a closed role-madness setup.

I guess the best way to describe my quest is “disruptive”. Don’t care to say more for now.
I think it’s possible but kinda don’t feel we’d be dealing with mafia having specifically anti-town quests.

I totally get this.
I actually feel like it's very likely that there's anti-town quests mixed about the whole of the setup.
Reminds me of my Bloodborne mafia where I rewarded town players for lynching other town players.
The idea was that if town roles get powered up with the loss of other town roles, it somewhat mitigates swing.
But that setup had other problems.

It's not necessarily "anti-town", but let's look at an example:

A quest that is about being put on L-1 that day but surviving.

It's not "anti-town" in the sense that will do permanent damage to town or anything, it just kinda looks like a scum quest.

Idk if it's a good idea to claim quests, because it may end up revealing what kind of role townies might have while scum can maybe fakeclaim?

Like, maybe it's not a bad idea but it's something to be thought a lot before doing. Also, although I'm quite confident that at least one scum may have a scummy quest, I dunno if all of them have scummy quests at all.

Also, sometimes townies may have a not-so-good-looking quest as well, it can happen that maybe someone with a quest similar to my example is town, and then not only would we be giving scum a lot of info, we would be clinging in to a sloppy rope.

JJH spent a lot of time doing the quests and setup, I wouldn't be confident that there is such a cheesy way to go about scum hunting.

If we get to know the quest of someone by other means though, it might not be a bad idea to wonder if it's scummy or not.

I don't think claiming quests is a great idea for exactly the reason you kind of came to here;
It's incredibly easy for scum to secretly fulfill their quest but to claim something absolutely false--shit, they could even claim stuff that makes town waste uses of their roles or puts town in compromised positions.
I would think long and hard before gating how you play and the actions you submit based solely on fulfilling someone else's quest.
I'm working toward's Maria's being fulfilled, but that's because I am fairly sure I'd get a lot out of having a PT with her and the only way it's waste is if she's some sort of PT-blocker or PT-based-killer but that'd all be incredibly evident after the PT stuff happens and would shade her as absolutely guilty.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

I do agree with this--wouldn't an anti-town quest be something like 'hammer a town player' or 'get someone to use their doctor action on you instead of another townie'?

And yeah, given jjh’s habit of picking apart roles I think he knows to avoid making something easily gamed.

I agree; let's put our faith in the mod and play as normal.

Nevermind

Pedit: Hey that's what I was about to guess!

I don't really see why that would be a scum quest in particular though.

Ditto. Please add more to the conversation besides parroting, Chibi.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Idk, just seems like the obvious conclusion considering what he said? I was thinking of the exact same thing.

How did it seem obvious?
What did he say to make it seem obvious?
Walk me through this like I am a child.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

probably not, the quest could very easily be "be added to another private topic" or something along the same vein. it's also possible that getting into a PT isn't part of her quest at all and is actually some element of her main role

although i am somewhat inferring that you're town from this post

VOTE: nk15

NSG, why the NK15 vote?
What do you think of my points on NK15 so far?
While I do come to the same conclusions you do, I dunno if this is you trying to keep a possibly town!maria from being townread for claiming or not.
Slight townread here but also paranoia.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Did you or did you not?
It's the first thing you posted, so there's no way of us knowing otherwise.
That much seems obvious.
Why the sudden flipping of the question?
Seems overtly defensive.
-1.

I guess the best way to describe my quest is “disruptive”.

Yeah, that's a better way of explaining it. My quest isn't necessarily disruptive though, just that it

could

be.

Hey, maybe don't tilt anymore here.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Exposure: I had that exact quest in a game I replaced into in order to make my role better. So I thought you read that game and saw it, or you were in it on another account.

Could you link that game?
I wasn't aware other games had 'quests' like this.
I mean. Besides my games.
Oh boy am I influential?
Please someone feed my ego.

Nevermind

Pedit: Hey that's what I was about to guess!

I don't really see why that would be a scum quest in particular though.

what were you saying nevermind to?

I'd like to know this as well but, NSG, aren't there more pressing avenues of investigation?
Why are you completely ignoring page 1's interactions?

Spoiler: Nevermind.

Thank you.
I always found Dang Ole Ron Paul to be cringy anime malarky.
I don't consider it good writing.
I don't like the character designs or aesthetic.
I don't get why people like it.
I have the same feelings about Higurashi; it's just trying too hard to be edgy and subversive.

I was about to also guess about the quest being needing to get to L-1 or L-2 or something similar but Nibbi beat me to it.

I assume this is because of something to do with the character?
For the record, people shouldn't claim their picks exactly for these reasons.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Exposure: I had that exact quest in a game I replaced into in order to make my role better. So I thought you read that game and saw it, or you were in it on another account.

Yeah, but that's not it to be honest, I naturally thought of it when thinking about not-so-good-looking quests, it's a pretty easy quest to come up with.

Can we move on from this conversation?
It's pointless and is taking up too much space.

Spoiler: Nevermind.

GDI Gamma don't just reveal my flavour like that

Maybe don't make obvious picks with easy solves for how they'd render into Mafia?
Like damn, son.

Nah I’d figure it would be MariaR’s flavor

What? Why?

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

Ditto on this, need an explanation.
+1 to Nibbul for driving the conversation away from shitposting and fluff, maybe they are tow--

nvm it's probably too soon for that

back to shitposting

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

-shrug-

i townlean you, mutant, and also maybe gamma. i figured that out of everyone who had posted so far, voting NK15 would be the most likely to have some sort of effect in helping sort him (along with his entrance being just sort of awkward enough for me to want to do so)

Can you go more into why you consider NK15's entrance awkward and worth voting for a sort?
Can you explain the townleans on Mutant and Gamma?
It seems like we're coming to a lot of the same conclusions here.
Which, on one hand, reassures me about you a bit, but
On the other
makes me noided AF.

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

(along with his entrance being just sort of awkward enough for me to want to do so)

yeah I was like

"if someone asked me who we should burn just based on entrance posts maybe NK15 wasn't a bad option huh"

but that's not a "reason" that we can discuss

voting NK15 would be the most likely to have some sort of effect in helping sort him

Mmmmh, maybe I'm being slow and I don't get it, but why? do you perhaps have experience playing with him?

Yeah I'm with Nibbul on this.
Please explain a lot more.
+1 to Nibbul.
Fairly certain Nibbul is lock-town here.

I'll help you with that as well

VOTE: NK15

I kinda get this.
Though I wish there was more questioning to prod NK15 into doing something.

yeah, a few games i think. i vaguely remember him overreacting to votes or something along those lines (i didn't really check)

And do you think that over-reaction would make his alignment clear?
Or is it liable to just get people ML'd and drive attention further away from the important parts of the game?

Mind telling why you think explaining the reaction test helps? I had a somewhat recent game where I saw someone was reaction testing me because I saw their post after posting about something unrelated to their test but still part of the game.

Who is this directed at?
Nibbul or NSG or both?

it was barely ever a "reaction test" in the first place, i just felt like voting someone and NK15 seemed like a good choice. the fact that i'm actually voting him and think that his entrance was awkward enough to warrant a vote has also not changed, so he's still that much actually closer to a lynch

I'm glad you stood by your vote and resisted shrugging it off as a reaction test.

Ok.

You're gonna accept that at face value?
What do you think of NSG's vote and open-pressure?

maybe and just maybe NSG is town.

I feel as if I've only seen her as town recently so I'm a bit afraid here though

NSG tends to obv-town though she's been really lazy lately so I dunno.
Why are you afraid?

i got my wiki up to date if you want to do more reading.

Gross.
Aint no one got time to be reading wikis.
Meta a trash anyway.
Why would you point someone AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND?
Just doesn't make sense to me.
Probably a playstyle thing though.

Are you activity telling me again -_-
I just read your PT for the coalition, and I object to the idea of a straight activity read. You can try to read me on engagement, I engage in different ways as town and scum I feel. But you can’t just try activity read me like Creature (which doesn’t work either).

Can you explain your history with people activity reading you?
I don't understand the context.

can't really activity tell you in the first 12 hours of a game. and despite what i said there, i didn't actually end up doing that.

What's informing your Gamma read then?

i got my wiki up to date if you want to do more reading.

Oh, that might help.

My to-do reading list is a bit rough here though, lots of people I don't have experience with or haven't seen enough of them.

Are you activity telling me again -_-
I just read your PT for the coalition, and I object to the idea of a straight activity read. You can try to read me on engagement, I engage in different ways as town and scum I feel. But you can’t just try activity read me like Creature (which doesn’t work either).

It's still amusing for me when you frequently post though (later or in the middle of the game)

it kinda feels like there is a elephant in the room and we might need to address it

I'm the elephant, right?
It's me, right?
No, really, what are you hinting at here even?

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

It's interesting that NK15 has come to this conclusion but problematic to me for a few reasons.
1. NK15 needs to drive attention elsewhere but isn't reacting to the votes on himself outright.
2. MariaR is likelier town than scum here even if it's sub-optimal play to claim bulletproof.
3. The outright condemnation without probing really seems like a mind made up rather than someone actually trying to gamesolve, which may be NAI, but isn't really pro-town to me.

Why don't you address the points against you, NK15?
Why don't you engage NSG?

I discussed all of those NK15. I don’t see why those are such atrocities?

Same. Good post by Gamma. Asking what needs to be asked.

I didnt even remember I signed up for this game till I saw the role PM.

Bad post is bad. You've got 70 posts to analyze here and you're posting this kind of entry-level fluff?
Let me show you how a real entry post should look, child.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

VOTE: mutant

Why arent you more skeptical?

Why aren't you?

talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

She does this as scum and town.

Anyone can do anything as scum and town.
Pointless.
You're adding little to the convo right now Kokichi.
Change that.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

>"Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill"
>"Wasting a nightkill"
>NK15 is thinking from the perspective of a night kill not working as being a bad thing

Gg ez
VOTE: NK15

Yeah, this is kind of funny if true.
Please don't try to greentext on forums where you can't.
It's unbecoming of you.
Do you really believe in this as a slip?
What about NK15's play otherwise?

Let's uh
Let's try that again.

HI VARSOON ARE YOU TOWN? ^_____^

That shit should be evident from when this post finally goes through.
Yeah you better fuckin build a house and get a job in me 'cus I'm town as heck.
What about you, Elbirn, my pal?
You town?
Thoughts on other slots, pls?

Yeah nk15 post was bad. But lets not lynch yet. We should do a mini game today

I agree, we should do minigames instead of turbo-lynching.
I'm willing to vote NK15 for a few reasons but I'd much rather spend the day phase sussing things out.

It was bad but I'm trying to debate if he really belives it or not

Howso?

Oh, and I am a Miller.

Aren't you always?

You ignored my joke ;-;

What does ignoring the joke tell you about their approach to play here?

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Please don't fluff-engage.

Oh, and I am a Miller.

So, like this is supposed to be 100% trustworthy? I heard this in a past game but have minimal clue as to the actual validity. Although it’s possible there’s a connection between that and this because jjh and Nico were both in that game (Nico as Carnelian, who flaked) and iirc were in two slots that were both Miller.

It's really, really hard for me to believe Nico claiming miller.
I'll take it at face value, though.
There's no reason to believe an investigative check doesn't yield a guilty on Nico.
People are best served using such checks on other players anyway.
Nico will sort themselves out.

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Eww
Maria might be Mafia

Go on?
Are you still joking around here or is this earnest?

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Eww
Maria might be Mafia

WAT. THAT WAS LIKE THE MOST NAI POST IN MY ISO.

Are you still joking around here or is this earnest?

Oh, and I am a Miller.

You're an eternal miller

Basically what I mean with my earlier posts re:Nico.
What do you make of the claim otherwise, Kokichi?

Wait do you guys have like roles? I just have a flavor wtf

You should have 1 role and 2 flavor-roles that can become real roles.

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Eww
Maria might be Mafia

WAT. THAT WAS LIKE THE MOST NAI POST IN MY ISO.

I’m not merely judging off what’s in that post. Either becoming a listmod changed you or thus is way too serious compared to the Maria I know, who would get upset at the joke or something.

Is it alignment-indicative?
If not, pls drop it.
Catching up is hard enough without having to consider the validity of Joke posts.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

Okay good but that doesn't diffuse the possible situation.
Please just address Gamma genuinely moving forward.

Wait do you guys have like roles? I just have a flavor wtf

You should have 3, one of them with the role explained and available
Do you not?

Setup is designed such that he does, don't let him trick you otherwise.
I think it's more likely Kokichi just didn't read right or something.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Yeah, jokes in games never are. Leave em for someplace else.
I'm tryin'a win this game, not make jokes.
Even if I am one.

Oh ok. Nvm. You guys should rig the mini game so I win.

I think everyone wants to win the minigames.

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

Fairly certain multiple roles unlock based on this.
Let's just have an actual competition to win them instead of colluding.
This sort of proposition is way worse than Maria's "someone put me in a PT" sorta thing.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Na you just don't get my amazing humor.

<3
I kinda got it
But seriously.
Please focus on the game.

mutant is town along with a hidden sr and tr I do not feel to name atm.

Why's mutant town here?
Explain how you came to that conclusion a bit more?

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

That only works if you win twice
The first time you win you unlock your own role
Unless you somehow just got no roles at all, which is kinda sketchy.

Yeah, ditto, think that a lot of people/everyone has a role that unlocks solely off of minigame
Since that's THE FUCKING SETUP.
"16. If you win a minigame, you will unlock your minigame role PM.
17. If you win a minigame and your minigame role PM is already unlocked, you can choose another player who will unlock their minigame role PM.
18. If you finish your quest, you will unlock your quest role PM."

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Na you just don't get my amazing humor.

Shooting someone down like you did isn’t funny, it’s insulting.

And if it's not alignment indicative, please drop it.
I'm tired of having to come back to this quote thread.
Damn.

mutant is town along with a hidden sr and tr I do not feel to name atm.

It's me.

I'm the hidden townread.

It's clearly me, Elbarn.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Na you just don't get my amazing humor.

Shooting someone down like you did isn’t funny, it’s insulting.

This is really ironic but I'm gonna not continue this conversation.
Pedit: Oh no

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

That only works if you win twice
The first time you win you unlock your own role
Unless you somehow just got no roles at all, which is kinda sketchy.

No I automatically unlock their 2nd role PM. I just need to win 1

Since you're already soft-confirmed for poor reading comprehension ("Wait we have roles!?")
Please re-read the setup and your role so we know you're not just misreading.

Oh no

Mars is a very bad place for love

Maria for once I townread you. I swearzies I'm not scum

Can you explain how you came to this townread and, furthermore;
Why are you insisting you're not scum here? Do you typically scumread maria in games where you're town and vice-versa?

Oh no

Mars is a very bad place for love

OH NOOOOO

pedit: Unlock my 2nd pm and you got a deal

I'll unlock u any day bby

Oh gosh what if Kokichi went for the easy pick and that became his normal, or possibly worse his quest role

Fairly obvious.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

>"Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill"
>"Wasting a nightkill"
>NK15 is thinking from the perspective of a night kill not working as being a bad thing

Gg ez
VOTE: NK15

Yeah no. A town nightkill is wasted because it could hit non-bulletproof scum instead( of verifying something that isn't towny in the first place).
The mafia nightkill is not in the hands of town so it is obviously not part of that verification process.

Cute that you're trying to twist this to being about a 'town nightkill' when in literally the site standard is that scum are the ones that do nightkills and town have 'Vigilante shots' and your original post that Elbirn took umbrage with only states 'Nightkill' and makes no clear indication that you intended 'town nightkill'.

Please don't make me have to quote this AND the contents of this post.
Please.

That is absolutely frightening. I have a stupid guess to what Varsoon chose as his flavor. Kudos, dear sir. That might be the easiest wall to read because it responds to literally every post.
I'll actually answer questions, just gimme a sec to process

I'm glad it's easy to read but I really, really don't want to have to do too many of these.

Okay varsoon I think you asked me the following questions Correct me if I'm wrong
1) When did I stop joking: I stopped joking when I told Gamma that was my most NAI post
2) Why I tr mutant: Because I think him trying to clear me doesn't really benefit scum at all
3) Why the n15 post is bad. Because the logic is just...incorrect and wrong but I need to figure out what his intent was.

Anything else?

1. Okay, it's just hard to gauge exactly and if I have an answer sooner or later, it's best.
2. That makes sense. Does mutant usually not try to clear you as scum or is this a meta-independent tell?
3. Can you illustrate what's incorrect and wrong about the logic? I'm not really following.

@MariaR: Why did you claim your bulletproof in thread instead of keeping it a secret?
That's my biggest point of contention when it comes to your play here.
I've got some ideas on it and I'd really like you to tell me (preferably in a PT) but it doesn't look like JJH is going to give us a PT just because I asked nicely.

Which, btw, was a test. I was curious if you were a role where people had to ask for a PT with you to get one but you couldn't claim that. It's the kind of role I might design if I was a little loonier. I don't like Post Restrictions very much.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

VOTE: mutant

Why arent you more skeptical?

In what way? Sceptical of the claim or sceptical of it meaning she is town? Either way, the answer is because this was just a passing thought I had and wanted to see what other's might have thought of it.

This tracks for me.
+1.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

>"Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill"
>"Wasting a nightkill"
>NK15 is thinking from the perspective of a night kill not working as being a bad thing

Gg ez
VOTE: NK15

To be fair, this kind of bs logic is exactly what I'd expect from NK15.

@MutantDevle: So NK15 usually makes really tenuous connections in coming to conclusions?

Is it just for scumreads or for townreads too?
Is it while playing any alignment?

Oh, and I am a Miller.

Why have you decided to claim this?

It's fairly site-standard to claim Miller D1 so that the cop doesn't waste a shot on you.
It's somewhat problematic, in my eyes, to do so, given that it tips the scum off to look for cop softs, so I'm not sure it helps town all that much. There's also a fairly standard agreement to not let Millers make it to LYLO (WIFOM reasons usually) which makes them players that the scum just avoid killing. This is why, as a designer, I'd suggest coupling Miller with a decent role to make up for it. Think, "What role, if confirmed by a cop as town, might be an issue?" and then you have a decent reason to make a miller in a setup. That said, putting cops in a setup is kinda a shitty idea anyway, that role sucks.
Possible rolecops can also confirm the role, provided it's not a scum miller, which seems fairly cruel for a mod to include in a setup with a rolecop given that miller tends to imply it's a town role.

@Varsoon Why is me being Miller hard to believe? Also, why does casting a RVS vote make me anti-town?

iirc, you claim miller a lot, either due to being miller, or just as a lie.
I don't read your vote as an RVS vote given that we were already out of RVS.
You should've been focused on the game at hand.
It pings me, but I don't think it's out of line of your usual town play so
I'm going to have to spend some more time figuring you out.

@NicoRobin: What are your thoughts on the game now that we're a bit further from RVS? Do you still stand by that vote? If so, why?

It's fairly typical NK15

Thanks for confirming this. Can you support this with links?

Oh, and I am a Miller.

Why have you decided to claim this?

Because claiming it right in the beginning is the right thing to do?

Already covered this. It can be the right play.
Regardless, it shouldn't influence how we read the Nico slot, is what I was trying to say.
Nico would claim Miller as either alignment even if Nico was not miller.

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

To clarify, are you claiming that your

role

enables you to unlock people's 2nd role PM, aka their quest PM? Because the quest flavour is what is listen as 2nd for me. Or are you just being dumb and actually mean this:

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

That only works if you win twice
The first time you win you unlock your own role
Unless you somehow just got no roles at all, which is kinda sketchy.

(Apologies if you've already answered this on a later page that I haven't read yet).

I think Kokichi has just misread the rules/their role PM and misunderstands how gifting minigame role reward works.
Waiting on confirmation of this one way or the other

Like is it specifically the quest PM or just 2nd PM or what?

Everyone's second PM unlocks based on minigame completion.
If you've already completed a minigame, you can unlock someone else's second PM when you win any minigame after your first.

It's fairly typical NK15

This is not "nk15 is town"
This is NAI

Can you give a little more than this?
If you're going to be bumping people's reads into NAI territory, maybe give us a bit more to chew on otherwise?

Responding to Varsoon might take a while, so I'll attempt to remain appraised and responding to current events.
This might end up like TM White Flag where I post big posts very late compared to when I start them due to having to take breaks from them.

Post at your leisure.
Whatever works for you, y'know?
I'll let you know if it's not enough.

Sure I’ll dance with u rc

Firebringer, whyyy

Oof varsoon. Are you going to be posting like that all game? Gotta be honest here I but I found your post just a little irritating. My biggest gripe is how you criticise a lot of people for doing NAI stuff and fluff posts yet a large part of your post has a lot of fluffy stuff in it. Like, if your post is THAT large, and you expect people to actually read it, surely you'd keep your own fluff to a minimum? I mean, I read all of it (except the parts where you had like a paragraph of fluff or something) and I'll

probably

continue to read all of it. But the easier you make it on us the better. Also, I can't possibly fathom how you actually care about all the questions you asked to everyone, do you really expect a response to all of them? Are you going to chase people for responses or what? I was kinda thinking if you were just doing all that to look busy and gamesolvey but I'm more sure that it's just you taking the game beyond seriously and (unrealistically) expecting everyone else to do the same.

The reason no one was really talking about FB/NK15's interactions page 1 is because, y'know, it's RVS. Am a wrong in thinking that posts and especially votes on page 1 and 2 tend to be more jokey and taken less seriously? Maybe I am because I recall being criticised for my RVS votes in previous games but idk the way you really ripped into all the posts felt like you weren't even acknowledging that the game had just started. Meh.

I'm only going to be posting like this when people quote my entire wall posts.
Otherwise, I can post normally.
My first post of the game was to be a wall post like that.
As you can see, I goofed that up, but eventually got to it.
I'd prefer to be able to just post normally.

I'm aware a lot of my first wall was fluff. I apologize for that.
I do care about my questions and expect responses but if they don't come, I won't blame people, really.
Like, I don't fully expect every player to read every one of these walls in their entirety.

I do think I'm taking the game more seriously than most, especially the people STILL fluffposting about dancing.
But we're only on page 6, and you're right, a lot of that content that I viewed as AI might just be RVS rubbish.
That said, I'd argue EVERYTHING can be Alignment Indicative and that RVS posts do hold weight.
Just not as much as later posts might.

People who prescribe to an 'RVS is meaningless' philosophy strip it of any use and allow scum to hide in that.
I ain't bout it.

Oh, and I am a Miller.

Why have you decided to claim this?

Because claiming it right in the beginning is the right thing to do?

I guess. But I can't help but feel there are slight undertones of someone who doesn't want to be investigated here. Do millers usually claim early in the game? I don't have much experience with them.

Nico never wants to be investigated, just trusted.
Which is why the miller claim strikes me odd but Nico's play around it comes off as town.
Them taking offense to me not trusting them on the claim is far likelier to come from town Nico, in my experience.

They do

Kiinda townvibing mutant here

Same.

@Radiant Cowbells: Can you go more into why, though?

Ahh, fair enough then.

What's this directed at?

aight at this point I'm shifting gears to phoneposting again so I'll try to finish my response but it might take a WHILE.

Sorry.

Yeah, this is kind of funny if true.
Please don't try to greentext on forums where you can't.
It's unbecoming of you.
Do you really believe in this as a slip?
What about NK15's play otherwise?

Its unbecoming to greentext anywhere, I just operate on so many levels of ironic self awareness that I can't be bothered to care

Yeah if NK's reaction to someone claiming kill immunity is "well we cant know for sure until scum shoots them", and thinks that's a *bad thing and a waste*, like nah son you're grounded

That shit should be evident from when this post finally goes through.
Yeah you better fuckin build a house and get a job in me 'cus I'm town as heck.
What about you, Elbirn, my pal?
You town?
Thoughts on other slots, pls?

Sorry babe, but effort =/= alignment *fingerguns*

I dont have much concrete yet. I like Maria and whatshisname, mutantdude?

Yeah.
I'll get there eventually you know me

That is absolutely frightening. I have a stupid guess to what Varsoon chose as his flavor. Kudos, dear sir. That might be the easiest wall to read because it responds to literally every post.
I'll actually answer questions, just gimme a sec to process

Is his flavor "man who has to respond to every post" cuz I love varsoon but I dont love that wall :c

I love you, too, but you're gonna get taken to Jupiter.
I don't expect anyone to townread me for this shit, though.
In fact, I was fully expecting the opposite.
And I was hoping to not have to do this twice, but ya'll done fucked that up for me.
Mutantdude is good, I agree. I'm iffy about Maria but have some suspicions and don't think she should be on the table D1.

Oh shit my boi elbirn is here

My boyyyyy

I think Varsoon’s flavor is mastina

Mastina aint got shit on meeeeee
I'm a god~~

Oh shit my boi elbirn is here

Why u do this

If it was he would have said "I am not literally a god of scumplay but I am a god of scumplay"

Indeed.

God I love that video

It's been a hot second for me but yes.

Is his flavor "man who has to respond to every post" cuz I love varsoon but I dont love that wall :c

Ditto

Ditto.
It's much more painful to be the one doing it.

Nibbui replaces Carcalilly

This is that shit I don't like. The WHOLE point of this game is that it's a U-PICK where YOU PICK the roles.
I can't fathom why someone would want to play as characters they DID NOT PICK.

I mean, you're overemphasing this a bit? If someone wasn't open-minded enough to like all kind of roles and instead wanted only to play very specific roles, we probably wouldn't play mafia game?

I mean, most of the time you don't get to choose what role or alignment you're going to play as. I replaced in because I wanted a more mechanical complex setup and I indeed wanted to fake claim or do some kind of gambit if I got to roll scum (I've a good time doing it).

Also, about the question if it was my pick or Carcalilly's pick, it was Carcalilly's I guess because I didn't get to pick anything. If there is info that Carcalilly should know and I don't, maybe we can fix that with the mod just telling me that particular info?

Your wall kinda...mmmmh, sorry to say this, but sounds a bit cherrypick at times? maybe it's because you needed to comment on all of that or something, but yeah, I'm not answering most of those questions or going to quote weird parts of it because idk what to do with it, it's too long and idk if this is common coming from you.

My vote on Chibi was really random though, and I voted Gamma to see if would keep asking questions and etc. By the way NSG pointing out her wiki for me, if I stretch it, might be very slightly town indicative but I feel that's just NAI. I think she said that because she knows I read and enjoy a lot of her games and games from people I find good as a certain alignment in hope of trying to learn something. Also I had just implied that I needed to see a recent game of hers as scum.

This is NOT a common thing for me.
I usually post multiple times in a row and I never quote posts like this in multiples.

I do not think Carcalilly's picks' flavor matters, or it shouldn't matter, for you. That said, part of the point of a U-Pick's design is that, y'know. You pick.

Thanks for your explanation on NSG, that makes sense. Your votes also follow a lot better for me, too.
I'm fairly certain

you are town

.

Oh dear god. Okay so I'm going to do my best to try to reply to The Great Wall of Varsoon at some point but right now it's too early in the morning for that.

NK15's explanation of his MariaR/nightkill statement makes sense, but I can't 100% shake the possibility of it being a recovery from a slip up. It feels pretty genuine though? Plus the people who know him are saying that this is pretty typical of him. I think it's likely that his logic was from a town POV and just had an odd choice of terminology.

I don't really know what to make of the Miller claim, I was a Miller in my most recent game and avoided claiming until the final day because I didn't want to get insta-lynched on D1 or policy lynched later on. According to you guys and the wiki though it's apparently common practice to claim ASAP so I guess that I'm just

baaaaarely

leaning towards believing the claim at the moment. Miller is a pretty awkward role in normals but in a theme game with unusual roles it might actually be pretty interesting, I'm really looking forward to seeing what kinds of cool roles jjh came up with!

Ok I'm just rambling now to avoid having to actually read that wall. Ugh.

I think it's not damning but that we shouldn't let NK15's meta keep us from keeping an eye on the slot.
I'd still be fine with a lynch there D1, even.

It's very likely Nico's role has more than Miller attached to it.
That said, I've already been over why Nico's claim itself is NAI but why Nico's play around the claim seems town.

Votecount #2:

Player	Votes	Voters
Not Known 15	3	northsidegal, Nibbui, Elbirn
Firebringer	2	NicoRobin, ChibiBear
MariaR	1	Not Known 15
mutantdevle	1	Kokichi Oma
Not voting	---	Firebringer, RadiantCowbells, Gamma Emerald, MariaR, Varsoon, mutantdevle

With 13 alive it's 7 to achieve majority for the lynch

The day will end in (expired on 2018-12-16 10:00:00).

The rules for the first minigame will be revealed in (expired on 2018-12-04 10:00:00).

Let's definitely hold out on lynching ANYONE until after this first minigame resolves.

Was hoping for a pagetop at some point but I guess I'll do a votecount here

You've gotta be like a Hawk! Watchful and aggressive! Get those pagetops!

Once again, another anti-town, content-devoid garbage sheep that I warned against earlier.

Well that's real nice, I can already tell we're going to get along.
Sorry if you don't like RVS but it's a thing that happens and I choose to participate in it.

How did it seem obvious?
What did he say to make it seem obvious?
Walk me through this like I am a child.

Why are you asking me and not Nibbui who came to the same conclusion?

"the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)"
So it's something that doesn't really affect town in a meaningful way neither positively nor negatively, and can be easily controlled. Getting a certain number of votes immediately jumps to mind. Or could be to do with deadlines, achieving a lynch before/after a certain time limit. I initially also thought maybe being targeted by a night action but that doesn't really fit.

'It's not a full-on anti-town quest lol. It's not a quest I can achieve by myself so I'd need to work with everyone to achieve it. But I can see a way in which it could make things go badly."
It's not inherently harmful to town but can result in something bad happening. Again, the things I mentioned above can all fit.

"I imagine that we are either going to achieve my quest condition naturally or we are going to come close to it and I'm going to be like "hey, can we quickly do this:" to achieve it. It would make more sense if I claim it."
"My quest isn't necessarily disruptive though, just that it could be."
So yeah. Between the things I came up with, getting a certain number of votes (Eg. L-1) seemed to make the most sense considering his descriptions. When I saw Nibbui come to the same conclusion I thought it was pretty cool since I'm not usually any good at logical deductions, but since he also came up with the same thing, that means my logic was probably sound.

I assume this is because of something to do with the character?

What character? I don't remember mutant claiming a character. I guessed it based on the above reasoning.

Maybe don't make obvious picks with easy solves for how they'd render into Mafia?
Like damn, son.

Uh, what? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. How does this make sense as a reply to my joke about Gamma 'revealing' my flavour? (And yes, flavour has a 'u' :3)

I may have gotten mixed up between you and Nibbui then.
I thought there was a character named 'Nevermind' or something.
I think I got really mixed up is all.
So the flavor thing is actually not a huge deal but
Let's say I picked a VERY OBSCURE character called KILLMAN from a show.
And all KILLMAN does is kill people. That's it. Nothing else.
Well if I claimed that flavor, people could probably figure out my role has something to do with killing people.
Does that make sense?
Anyway, for those wondering, I DID NOT pick Guillotine Gorilla

Also an afterthought: You seemed to be against further discussion about the quest, why would you ask me to walk you through my thought process and dredge that discussion back up?

I don't want people to discuss their own quests, but I was wondering how you came to the conclusions that you did.
Then again, I think I got you mixed up with Nibbui, but you walking me through it made sense.

When I saw Nibbui come to the same conclusion I thought it was pretty cool since I'm not usually any good at logical deductions, but since he also came up with the same thing, that means my logic was probably sound

I feel successfully pocketed

can I town read you already?

Is this a joke or are you actually paranoid/townreading Chibi?
I don't think coming to the same conclusions as someone makes that person town, though.

actually nvm

I thought that if I said I was beginning to town read you as nonchalantly like that, if you said "sure" just as nonchalantly I would give you town points but...

It's page 6 so ofc you gotta question why or find it unnatural :/

Yeah that makes sense.

@Nibbui: Do you think it's impossible to lock a townread by page 6?

I mean I wasn't

trying

to pocket you, but I obviously will not say no to being townread!

I was away just now so I actually didn't see that first post until after you posted that 2nd one. Now that you mention it though, why

would

you townread me as a result of feeling like you're being pocketed?

actually nvm

I thought that if I said I was beginning to town read you as nonchalantly like that, if you said "sure" just as nonchalantly I would give you town points but...

It's page 6 so ofc you gotta question why or find it unnatural :/

This doesn't feel like something scum would say imo.

I agree.

Votecount #2:

Player	Votes	Voters
Not Known 15	3	northsidegal, Nibbui, Elbirn
Firebringer	2	NicoRobin, ChibiBear
MariaR	1	Not Known 15
mutantdevle	1	Kokichi Oma
Not voting	---	Firebringer, RadiantCowbells, Gamma Emerald, MariaR, Varsoon, mutantdevle

With 13 alive it's 7 to achieve majority for the lynch

The day will end in (expired on 2018-12-16 10:00:00).

The rules for the first minigame will be revealed in (expired on 2018-12-04 10:00:00).

@Mod Varsoon is voting for Not Known 15

I'm not voting anyone right now.

Votecount #2:

Player	Votes	Voters
Not Known 15	3	northsidegal, Nibbui, Elbirn
Firebringer	2	NicoRobin, ChibiBear
MariaR	1	Not Known 15
mutantdevle	1	Kokichi Oma
Not voting	---	Firebringer, RadiantCowbells, Gamma Emerald, MariaR, Varsoon, mutantdevle

With 13 alive it's 7 to achieve majority for the lynch

The day will end in (expired on 2018-12-16 10:00:00).

The rules for the first minigame will be revealed in (expired on 2018-12-04 10:00:00).

@Mod Varsoon is voting for Not Known 15

No he's not

Hahaha shut down.

Responding to Varsoon's wall with post numbers so we don't create posts that break the site.

Spoiler: these are jokes

12: is this nihilism (it's probably not but I recently wandered into r/nihilism and it kinda messed with my head, as I saw something that made a fair amount of sense to me despite not subscribing to nihlism completely)
48: Wow you could NOT be more wrong on my Dank And Roper stance, I'm actually a big fan, in fact as I type his I've got music from the games playing).
74: people do the “greentext” thing even in places where greentext doesn’t work because the format still expresses the type of speech they’re trying to evoke.

2: This seems a bit anal about the whole thing. Yes someone picking and then replacing sucks because they don't get to play with a flavor they picked out themselves. But it feels like you're treating the as compromised just through this. I can see what you mean with FFT, and can call your comparison with the Murder at King's Landing game SAD ran which was also an anonymous alt game and iirc some players kinda pushed how far they could go with that, including a hydra that had some problems. fyi Carcalilly picked her roles and then flaked (which is a repeat offense, and probably will result in me not letting her into games I mod anytime soon), otherwise we'd have had need of a replacement a lot sooner.
9: I could answer these but I'll let them be unless they come towards me.
16: excited for several reasons, will try to rattle off as man as I can: role, a hype playerlist (and btw I know the origin of hype, idc I'll still use it), RC doing the same thing with firebringer me and DVa did in a completed game, being happy I get to play what I think will be a lolbalance UPick after Alisae leaving the promise of his UPick hanging, and excitement from various things I cannot get into without a mire of spoilers for a LOT of things.
Why are you being such a grump about fluffposting though? Are you seriously this meme?
21: A lot of this is fluff, but I'm not gonna let your grump attitude stop me from enjoying the game I want to play.
Getting into what I said to Maria, just because I'm asking about role things doesn't mean I intend to do things about them. I'll get into that down below.
The ChibiBear question has to do with my mire of spoilery thoughts and just my general mire of random thoughts, which has been swirling like crazy recently. One thing of which I think you might find cool: my mom and sister have convinced me to check out Steven Universe!
The Nibbui question was because Nibbui's statement made no sense and I was trying to parse it.
23: See below.
24: not the thing I've been pointing to, but why do you think MariaR is realclaiming as town? Nibbui just brought up fakeclaiming, why does that slip your mind?
29: I do NOT think MariaR is town as of this moment.
30: well our "RVS" seemed a little voting light, so I was encouraging more votes.
34: Yeah, I noted I gelled with your thinking in 32, although I didn't notice you saying anything about what you thought of mutantdevle for his theory.
35: good thought, though lacking in alignment indication.
37: I actually followed SU2 Mafia from around the midpoint, and iirc the Climax meter was another form of swing mitigation. So yeah I get what you're talking about.
44: Brings up something I didn't notice. why DID you ask that question, Nibbui? why does you having that at the top of your head matter?
39 & 46: So as I said, I had a quest in a past game where I could increase my usefulness if I was brought to L-1 and survived. This is the game, fyi.
49: your sarcasm radar must be broken.
52: this should go in the jokes section but this is addressed at me and the jokes section is meant to be skippable. I made that joke because one of Maria's alts is the character Sonia Nevermind.
55: noticing Varsoon playing the paranoia card a lot? Nagl.
59: Directed at NSG
61: I was like “ok, if it wasn’t a reaction test I don’t see much that I take issue with”. I was neutral on the vote pretty much.
64: I’m gonna give you the short version, if you want the long version just say so. A player who doesn’t play here anymore, Infinity324, has a consistent track record of reading me based on how engaged I was. I’ve broken free from that meta somewhat but I still believe that certain ways I behave are exclusive to one alignment over the other. For instance I will sometimes try to sit in the background as scum if I don’t like the way things are going or don’t want to upset the path of events.
81: For some reason I just find the way Varsoon is playing around Nico and the Miller claim awful.
79, 82, 86: This is serious. I’d definitely expect her to have a more emotive reaction to what I did.
89 and 92: Giving preferential treatment to Maria I see.
94: are you mocking me? I think you’re mocking me.

---

So I agree with a lot of Varsoon's theoryposting, but that is pretty prevalent which gives me an IIoA vibe, plus I feel like his grump-ness might be scummy. That grump-ness read is meta based though and I need to check it. Also the way he’s interacting with everyone gives me the feeling not everyone is starting at the same point for him, indicating hidden knowledge.
VOTE: Varsoon

RE:12. Not Nihilism--Nihilism is the notion that nothing matters. Postmodernism/Poststructuralism posits that nothing has intrinsic meaning but we give meaning to the things we create/experiences we have/stuff we come across; it's more focused on the artifice of things rather than the inherit non-significance of them. In writing, though, Post-structuralism grew out of a response to the notion that words had intrinsic meanings and other people were like, "No, language is arbitrary as fuck, we all just agree to give it these meanings."

RE:2. The whole not a big deal, just a pet peeve.

RE:21: I hope you like SU! Stick with it for the first season through at least, it really goes places.

RE:24: I think that it's more likely that Maria is actually a strong role and wants to beef it up more but threw out the BP stuff as WIFOM to avoid getting shot. I think the Maria issue sorts itself, though.

RE:64: That makes a lot of sense, thanks for explaining.

RE:94: I'm mocking Kokichi, who I think is misreading his role/the setup. You're fine.

Thanks for the scumread, though is there anything I can do to help you actually sort me here?

Nibbui replaces Carcalilly

This is that shit I don't like. The WHOLE point of this game is that it's a U-PICK where YOU PICK the roles.
I can't fathom why someone would want to play as characters they DID NOT PICK.
This reminds me a lot of my frustrations with my very own favorite-game-designed-and-run-onsite, Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia.
In FFT Mafia (which I designed, of course!), players were all given secret alt accounts to post from that aligned with the Zodiac signs that each represented,
Those players then double-drafted their roles in what was, really, honestly, the best draft phase that anyone has conceived of.
Basically, players had access to every JOB CLASS role in the game, but only knew the FIRST ABILITIES of each while having a somewhat nebulous flavor explanation of what the class does.
After the first phase of private picking, everyone learns ALL THE SECRET ABILITIES of the first JOB CLASS they picked and then they get to post and pick again at the end of that posting phase.
So it was this really involved semi-closed draft. Town, of course, tried to game it, but scum was secretly

Spoiler: Spoilers for that game, you should REALLY read it!

a thirteenth player hidden from the signup thread and the game list, who wasn't counted as a living player but could submit secret scum actions and recruited two players after the job class draft was over

.
Anyway, as you can see, replacements SEVERELY compromised the integrity of that game. It ran to completion, but it infuriated me that the anonymity of the setup was oft-compromised with replace-ins making it that much harder to actually read a slot, but, furthermore, those replace-ins were never a part of the semi-open double-draft, so it was like they had no agency over their role which was a huge part of that game.
Anyway, what I'm saying is, shame on you Carcalilly for replacing out. Or eating a ban. Or whatever happened. I mean, I guess I get if IRL stuff came up and bit you in the ass but if you just made picks and replaced out for no good reason, gross.
In fact;

@MOD: Did Carcalilly make the picks for that slot or did you let Nibbul make the picks?

I thought this game would never start

Me too! I was surprised it finally did. I've been pretty excited for it, but yeah, it is a U-Pick, so it makes sense, especially given that JJH had to design these interesting and multifaceted roles.

VOTE: Firebringer nice scum entry

Why do you vote FB here? I thought it took a long time for the game to start, too, but that doesn't make me scum.
Seems like a pretty NAI thing to push, I don't understand.
Are you just reaction fishing? On Firebringer? One of the most volatile players in the game?
It really looks like you're kicking a wasp's nest and hoping that people will blame the wasps for being violent.
I'm gonna keep an eye on how you try to handle game momentum moving forward.

nice rvs vote

Good shit on calling that out but I wish you'd be more critical.
Posts like this don't give me much more insight into your alignment;
I'm tempted to call it town, because it's so Firebringer devil-may-care attitude, but I think you might just play that way regardless.
Do you actually have some criticism of this vote or how do you think of it? I'm reading this as sarcasm, btw, but when I look at it further...
You absolutely deny the vote any weight by calling it out as an RVS vote, like, that they don't have legitimate reason to vote you.
It's interesting that you'd do that, but we'll see if that sort of denial and sarcastic survivalism is indicative of align or not, I suppose?

nice rvs vote

...
scum 1 found.
Sheep me.

This is trash. If everyone just sheeped you on this petty interaction, we'd have no info at the end of D1.
What I take from this is that you're trying to give your vote pressure and reassert it as meaningful after Firebringer's denial.
I can get the town mentality of doing so (trying to reaffirm pressure) but the means of doing it is so anti-town that right now I'd rather vote you than FB.

I would sheep u if I wasn't a wolf.

Ugggh openwolfing and pooky-tells are supposed to be my thing, Firebringer.
But on the real, I'm reading the further sarcasm and nonplussed response as you letting the vote and double-down roll off your back.
You're being consistent, at least, which feels better than not.

I'm curious if Not Known 15 will be as critical of this post as Firebringer's entry.
Same thing goes, but in case you didn't catch it just above because that was directed at Firebringer:
I was surprised the game finally started!
I've been pretty excited for it, but yeah, it is a U-Pick, so it makes sense, especially given that JJH had to design these interesting and multifaceted roles.
This post rings more as joyous at the start whereas FB's seems a bit more 'ugh it's about time' kinda stuff
So I imagine you got a role you're excited for, or even an alignment?
What's the optics on Gamma's enjoyment of playing each alignment?
Does he like playing scum or town way more than the other?

Can we vote for past jjh?

VOTE: past jjh927

Ngl I'm already loving my role primarily because it looks like the mod properly researched into my obscure picks. My minigame flavour is just perfect. So thanks for that jjh

It's wild that there's already a bit of an interaction happening on-page so far and you've decided to ignore it ENTIRELY to push this vanity-joke.
I don't get it.
I do appreciate the flavor and role design so far, too, but I really want you to focus more on the game.
You continuing to deny that seems like a further denial of the severity of NK15's vote, which is in-line with Firebringer's approach.
Lightly thinking you two are in the same camp, at least, mentally.
Won't be surprised if FB likes you.

Also, your mod colour hurts my eyes on maf silver

I play on Mafsilver too and the mod color literally requires me to highlight the text.
That said, your continued avoidance of actually engaging with the game bothers me a ton.
I don't think it's a huge deal at this point but if I was given a gun and asked to shoot someone out of you three posters so far, I'd shoot you every time.

@MOD: Consider using a mod color that looks fine on the various Mafiascum.net templates.
For instance, white looks neat on MafBlack but is completely illegible on MafSilver.
Just something to consider.

past jjh is dead. this is currernt jjh which will soon also be past jjh who will die.

we should instead vote for future jjh but future jjh will never come because when it is the future it will be the current and then past and we all know the past is just history and history is dead.

so we can't lynch anyone when u think about it.
our past selves aren't our current selves and we aren't ever our future selves until it becomes current and then it will pass and the idea of the self is kind of a touchy subject, not even sure if there is such a thing of the self and we are all just in mass delusion that a self exists for convenience.

Yup, called it. FB's engaging with Mutant's off-topic post. Reads as further vote-distancing.
But it's pretty postmodern to acknowledge that your past self is not your current or future self even.
This is why we write shopping lists, because we know right now what we need, but we are acknowledging that our future self will not know despite still being 'us'.
It's some pretty Derrida-level stuff, actually factually.
If you actually are interested in this stuff and aren't just shitposting, I suggest reading 'Signature Event Context': http://lab404.com/misc/ltdinc.pdf
Goes a lot into writing as a representation of communication of the self of the past, which arises from an acknowledgement of the absence of that self in the future.
It's like 25 pages of verbose, ambling French translated into English so I'll save you the scrying and just grab the best bit of it:

What are in effect the essential predicates in a minimal determination of the classical concept of writing?
1) A written sign, in the current meaning of this word, is a mark that subsists,
one which does not exhaust itself in the moment of its inscription and which can
give rise to an iteration in the absence and beyond the presence of the empirically
determined subject who, in a given context, has emitted or produced it. This is
what has enabled us, at least traditionally, to distinguish a "written" from an
"oral" communication.
2) At the same time, a written sign carries with it a force that breaks with its
context, that is, with the collectivity of presences organizing the moment of its
inscription. This breaking force (force de rupture) is not an accidental predicate
but the very structure of the written text. In the case of a so-called "real" context,
what I have just asserted is all too evident. This allegedly real context includes a
certain "present" of the inscription, the presence of the writer to what he has
written, the entire environment and the horizon of his experience, and above all
the intention, the wanting-to-say-what-he-means, which animates his inscription
at a given moment. But the sign possesses the characteristic of being readable
even if the moment of its production is irrevocably lost and even if I do not know
what its alleged author-scriptor consciously intended to say at the moment he
wrote it, i.e. abandoned it to its essential drift. Ar:; far as the internal semiotic
context is concerned, the force of the rupture is no less important: by virtue of its
essential iterability, a written syntagma can always be detached from the chain in
which it is inserted or given without causing it to lose all possibility of functioning,
if not all possibility of "communicating," precisely. One can perhaps come to
recognize other possibilities in it by inscribing it or grafting it onto other chains.
No context can entirely enclose it. Nor any code, the code here being both the
possibility and impossibility of writing, of its essential iterability (repetition/alterity).

3) This force of rupture is tied to the spacing [espacement 1 that constitutes the
written sign: spacing which separates it from other elements of the internal contextual
chain (the always open possibility of its disengagement and graft), but
also from all forms of present reference (whether past or future in the modified
form of the present that is past or to come), objective or subjective. This spacing
is not the simple negativity of a lacuna but rather the emergence of the mark. It
does not remain, however, as the labor of the negative in the service of meaning,
of the living concept, of the telos, supersedable and reducible in the Aufhebung
of a dialectic.

Hello.

VOTE: Firebringer

Because there can only be one pirate in these seas. Ahoy, matey!

This sort of doubling down and bringing the focus back on the game at hand is great but I don't appreciate you grounding it in a less serious place and not addressing the game so far.
This is the sort of weak sheep that I was saying was anti-town just earlier.
Like, game-momentum-wise, this could be townie, but otherwise, I don't like this post very much.
Dukes up, Nico.

Firebringer I just wanted you to know how much your continued support has meant to me through all these years and I've thought about you from the sidelines but until this moment I've never really realized just how much I want to be with you.

Would you do me the honour of a dance?

Honor doesn't have a 'u' in it.
I also think it's wild that you intentionally acknowledge FB but not the two-vote wagon there or his interactions.
This sort of interaction reads really awkward but also strikes me as you not being the same align.
I take back my gun shot earlier. I'd shoot you now.
But, nah, really, waiting for you to WOW US ALL with your PERFECT READS, you GOLDEN GOD OF MAFIA.
You're off to a GREAT START that I couldn't possibly levy any valid criticism against, and even if I tried, it'd just be me being a HATER.
Wouldn't be surprised if you picked yourself, you narcissist.

Firebringer I just wanted you to know how much your continued support has meant to me through all these years and I've thought about you from the sidelines but until this moment I've never really realized just how much I want to be with you.

Would you do me the honour of a dance?

Someone is being unfaithful.......

See, this is why RC's post is so egregious to me;
I know that Nico will engage with it for fun factor
So it just drives the fluffposting
And distances further from the game at hand.
Don't fall for this nonsense, Nico.

It’s page one and I’m already so filled with glee

I'd appreciate it if you'd comment more on what's actually going on Page 1.
Once again, seems like another player snowed by RC's 'play' approach that capitalizes on FB's distancing.
FB can't call it out because they initiated and would be painted for it, but I can see what's happening here.

I don't think Sakura Hana will mind. I'll ask her.

Please stop this.
Play the game at hand.
If you have another post after this where you continue to not game-engage (especially if it's baiting Nico for fluff), I'm going to tunnel you until either one of us is dead.

This long awaited day has finally arrived!

past jjh is dead. this is currernt jjh which will soon also be past jjh who will die.

we should instead vote for future jjh but future jjh will never come because when it is the future it will be the current and then past and we all know the past is just history and history is dead.

so we can't lynch anyone when u think about it.
our past selves aren't our current selves and we aren't ever our future selves until it becomes current and then it will pass and the idea of the self is kind of a touchy subject, not even sure if there is such a thing of the self and we are all just in mass delusion that a self exists for convenience.

VOTE: Firebringer

My next existential spiral is scheduled for Wednesday, please don't mess up my schedule

Once again, another anti-town, content-devoid garbage sheep that I warned against earlier.
This does nothing to help sort either of your alignments.
Please step your game up.
Honestly, the fact that you've read up to this point and all you can do is offer a fluff-sheep, it makes me a lot more convinced of FB as town here.
Anyway, please, articulate yourself and don't fall for this garbage.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

I'll get you there, Maria.
Way to soft your secondary role enabling.
I'd take being in a PT with you, for what it's worth.
In fact.

@MOD: Can I have a PT with MariaR?
I'd like to ally with them a-la Steven Universe Mafia.

Thoughts on the game so far, MariaR?

Oh, I finally found a game where we can fakeclaim to our hearts's content!

VOTE: ChibiBear

People with cute avatars can't be trusted!!

Nibbul, did you make your own picks or did you inherit your replacee's?
I somewhat appreciate driving the game somewhere other than the Firebringer exchange but it bothers me that you'd avoid entirely.
Reads as conflict-avoidant. Dunno what that means for you, though.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

How soon we talking

@Chibi, wdym existential spiral?

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Gamma, please don't hint at a means of using your role, don't wanna give scum too much info here and guide their kill.
Though if you're scum, it makes plenty of sense for your to open-soft.
I don't see these questions as really helping you sort either slot.
Could explain how they do?
They both seem like questions that'll just generate more fluff posting.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

How soon we talking

@Chibi, wdym existential spiral?

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

ASAP

A$AP ROCKY
Hold up, bitches simmer down
Takin' hella long, bitch, give it to me now
Make that thing pop like a semi or a 9
Ooh, baby like it raw with the shimmy shimmy ya
Huh, A$AP, get like me
Never met a motherfucker fresh like me
All these motherfuckers wanna dress like me
Put the chrome to your dome, make you sweat like Keith
‘Cause I'm the nigga, the nigga nigga, like how you figure?
Gettin' figures and fuckin' bitches
She rollin' Swishers, brought her bitches
I brought my niggas, they gettin' bent up off the liquor
She love my licorice, I let her lick it
They say money make a nigga act nigga-ish
But least a nigga nigga rich
I be fuckin' broads like I be fuckin' bored
Turn a dyke bitch out, have her fuckin' boys; beast

...what a garbage flow. This is the dude's most popular song? Trash.
It really does make me respect the people who put in work and write bars that aren't misogynistic hoodrat shit.
In fact, I apologize for posting this. Doing all I can to get you into that PT ASAP, though!!

What determines when bad things happen, phases or irl time

This is a good question and I wish it was bolded at the mod so

@MOD: What determines when game events happen--is it real time or certain phases of the game?

I become death proof.

Convenient excuse if you're scum.
Why would you claim this?
As town, wouldn't you want to seem like you've enabled a strong part of your role and then DRAW THE KILL.
Mad shade on you for this, seriously.
I really do not like it.
But, ugh, I'm already committed to getting you into a PT.

Well from night kills that is

Mmmhm.
I really still don't know how to take this and it bothers me a ton.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Obviously.
Mutant bothers me with the blatant fish here, especially given their earlier play.
-1.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Well my quest has 2 parts getting into the pt is one. I'm already somewhat not killable at night but I know if I finish it it gets better

I still have no idea why a BP would ever out that.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Hi there Gamma

It's not about being reprehensible or not, I wanted to do it just because it's fun!! :'D

Seriously speaking though it's more of a pun since I love fakeclaiming as scum, but since I rolled town I might need to hold myself

Oh, also I have a xmas gift for you

VOTE: Gamma

We're not in RVS anymore.
Why the vote on Gamma?
Please explain this a bit more.

I become death proof.

I was expecting to have to dance around this more, based on a similar play Kokichi Oma made in Deja Vu Mafia (RIP). Thank you for providing these specifics, they make me much more inclined to aid you. While making you immune to some sort of a kill is kinda unsavory, it’s better bulletproof than Lynchproof as lynch is town’s main weapon while the gun is a more rogue tool.
Unfortunately I cannot aid you right now but I’ll do what I can to help. This is dependent on you remaining not-a-scumread FYI.

I appreciate Gamma being forthright here.
This is probably the one decent post in the game so far.
Like it's the only post so far I haven't gone, "Ugh."
Gamma, do you think we can trust MariaR?

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Hi there Gamma

It's not about being reprehensible or not, I wanted to do it just because it's fun!! :'D

Seriously speaking though it's more of a pun since I love fakeclaiming as scum, but since I rolled town I might need to hold myself

Oh, also I have a xmas gift for you

VOTE: Gamma

I already accounted for you not meaning it in a way that regarded fakeclaiming as reprehensible with the “whatever you believe” part.
So uh...what’s the pun? I see a rhyme, but no pun.
And thank you for your gift, I like votes of many kinds. Unfortunately votes on town are disliked so that sours the feeling a little.

This is a much more blatant hand-wave of a vote.
The insistence on being town is noted, though.
Same with engaging with fluff.
Still dunno to make heads or tails of this slot. :/

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Well my quest has 2 parts getting into the pt is one. I'm already somewhat not killable at night but I know if I finish it it gets better

Huh. My quest is a simple condition that needs to be met but I have no idea what it rewards other than my flavour submission.

I was thinking about whether it was worth all of us sharing what quest conditions that we have. That way, we can help each other to unlock our 2nd abilities. That said, we don't know whether each person we help could be mafia. So then, would it turn into only helping the people we trust? If so, then that might lead to some town discourse as different people want to help different people and others try to prevent some from reaching their conditions. Then there's the possibility that the mafia may be able to prevent us from completing our missions, especially if they cannot be completed within the day.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but, the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences). Naturally, if we follow this route, people are going to ask for help anyway if they feel that that's the best way to unlock their ability. That then treads into the territory of "so do we actually help this person because we might just be giving more power to the mafia".

I think the default soloution is the 2nd option as I'm fairly certain that was the way the mod intended. There's also the added benefit of being able to use the extent that people go to try and achieve their quest as AI.

If we all out our quests, then mafia also know who is role-enabled and can base their kills off of that.
I think it's much more in the spirit of the game for us to privately work towards our quests.
But you seem to have come to the same conclusions so
I think you might be town for that. Hm.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

It could always be 'Enter a PT with a town player' which a role that I would definitely design because I kind of have before in Steven Universe mafia games, which are entirely hinged around entering PTs with players in order to activate roles. I'd read it as NAI because I don't think that anyone's role-enabling, by design, would be alignment indicative.

So uh...what’s the pun? I see a rhyme, but no pun.

It's for myself, I'm egocentric enough for that yes

And thank you for your gift, I like votes of many kinds. Unfortunately votes on town are disliked so that sours the feeling a little.

...bout what?
I really with you'd share a lot more of your thoughts.
It's been hard to pinpoint very much at all about you.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

Whilst possible it could be she needs to be in a non-factional PT or some other way of phrasing that excludes a mafia PT.
I like your gusto though.

Coming to the same conclusions here, too.
I don't think Gamma and Maria are on the same scumteam if either is scum here.
Basically, Gamma would be complicit with trying to make Maria's needs look townie and has no reason to doubtcast this way if scum with Maria.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but,

the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)

.

I mean, if this is what I think it is, it kinda sounds like a scum quest to be honest.

I don't see why you would say that so easily though, I would expect you to be aware that it was a not-so-good-looking quest so...

maybe it's kinda a nice intention after all?

dunno :/

Enabling unknown factors in other player's roles should benefit us more than hurt us, regardless.
There's no way that scum have roles that will unfairly tip the balance of the game if enabled--that's awful design and if it is the case, then the game was somewhat compromised before it began.
I put trust in the mod, though, and believe fully that the interactions we get out of enabling and the likelier chance of enables being on town than scum means that the mechanic, in general, should drive engagement and be, ostensibly, pro-town. It does risk tilting role-info to scum and allows for clever scum to power up very fast but that's pretty much all it allows them so we're probably fine playing towards it.
I do get your own back-and-forth about Maria based on the sincerity of her posts, though.
+1.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but,

the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)

.

I mean, if this is what I think it is, it kinda sounds like a scum quest to be honest.

I don't see why you would say that so easily though, I would expect you to be aware that it was a not-so-good-looking quest so...

maybe it's kinda a nice intention after all?

dunno :/

It's not a full-on anti-town quest lol. It's not a quest I can achieve by myself so I'd need to work with everyone to achieve it. But I can see a way in which it could make things go badly. Don't worry though, I'm not stupid enough to fall into the trap that it kinda sets out. I imagine that we are either going to achieve my quest condition naturally or we are going to come close to it and I'm going to be like "hey, can we quickly do this:" to achieve it. It would make more sense if I claim it.

You have raised a valid thought though, do you think that the mafia are going to have specifically anti-town quests? Because if so, then that's a solid reason for everyone to claim their quests.

I don't think scum are going to have anti-town quests, just anti-town powerups.
I don't know that this discussion is fruitful, though, and I'm very against people claiming in a closed role-madness setup.

I guess the best way to describe my quest is “disruptive”. Don’t care to say more for now.
I think it’s possible but kinda don’t feel we’d be dealing with mafia having specifically anti-town quests.

I totally get this.
I actually feel like it's very likely that there's anti-town quests mixed about the whole of the setup.
Reminds me of my Bloodborne mafia where I rewarded town players for lynching other town players.
The idea was that if town roles get powered up with the loss of other town roles, it somewhat mitigates swing.
But that setup had other problems.

It's not necessarily "anti-town", but let's look at an example:

A quest that is about being put on L-1 that day but surviving.

It's not "anti-town" in the sense that will do permanent damage to town or anything, it just kinda looks like a scum quest.

Idk if it's a good idea to claim quests, because it may end up revealing what kind of role townies might have while scum can maybe fakeclaim?

Like, maybe it's not a bad idea but it's something to be thought a lot before doing. Also, although I'm quite confident that at least one scum may have a scummy quest, I dunno if all of them have scummy quests at all.

Also, sometimes townies may have a not-so-good-looking quest as well, it can happen that maybe someone with a quest similar to my example is town, and then not only would we be giving scum a lot of info, we would be clinging in to a sloppy rope.

JJH spent a lot of time doing the quests and setup, I wouldn't be confident that there is such a cheesy way to go about scum hunting.

If we get to know the quest of someone by other means though, it might not be a bad idea to wonder if it's scummy or not.

I don't think claiming quests is a great idea for exactly the reason you kind of came to here;
It's incredibly easy for scum to secretly fulfill their quest but to claim something absolutely false--shit, they could even claim stuff that makes town waste uses of their roles or puts town in compromised positions.
I would think long and hard before gating how you play and the actions you submit based solely on fulfilling someone else's quest.
I'm working toward's Maria's being fulfilled, but that's because I am fairly sure I'd get a lot out of having a PT with her and the only way it's waste is if she's some sort of PT-blocker or PT-based-killer but that'd all be incredibly evident after the PT stuff happens and would shade her as absolutely guilty.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

I do agree with this--wouldn't an anti-town quest be something like 'hammer a town player' or 'get someone to use their doctor action on you instead of another townie'?

And yeah, given jjh’s habit of picking apart roles I think he knows to avoid making something easily gamed.

I agree; let's put our faith in the mod and play as normal.

Nevermind

Pedit: Hey that's what I was about to guess!

I don't really see why that would be a scum quest in particular though.

Ditto. Please add more to the conversation besides parroting, Chibi.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Idk, just seems like the obvious conclusion considering what he said? I was thinking of the exact same thing.

How did it seem obvious?
What did he say to make it seem obvious?
Walk me through this like I am a child.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

probably not, the quest could very easily be "be added to another private topic" or something along the same vein. it's also possible that getting into a PT isn't part of her quest at all and is actually some element of her main role

although i am somewhat inferring that you're town from this post

VOTE: nk15

NSG, why the NK15 vote?
What do you think of my points on NK15 so far?
While I do come to the same conclusions you do, I dunno if this is you trying to keep a possibly town!maria from being townread for claiming or not.
Slight townread here but also paranoia.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Did you or did you not?
It's the first thing you posted, so there's no way of us knowing otherwise.
That much seems obvious.
Why the sudden flipping of the question?
Seems overtly defensive.
-1.

I guess the best way to describe my quest is “disruptive”.

Yeah, that's a better way of explaining it. My quest isn't necessarily disruptive though, just that it

could

be.

Hey, maybe don't tilt anymore here.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Exposure: I had that exact quest in a game I replaced into in order to make my role better. So I thought you read that game and saw it, or you were in it on another account.

Could you link that game?
I wasn't aware other games had 'quests' like this.
I mean. Besides my games.
Oh boy am I influential?
Please someone feed my ego.

Nevermind

Pedit: Hey that's what I was about to guess!

I don't really see why that would be a scum quest in particular though.

what were you saying nevermind to?

I'd like to know this as well but, NSG, aren't there more pressing avenues of investigation?
Why are you completely ignoring page 1's interactions?

Spoiler: Nevermind.

Thank you.
I always found Dang Ole Ron Paul to be cringy anime malarky.
I don't consider it good writing.
I don't like the character designs or aesthetic.
I don't get why people like it.
I have the same feelings about Higurashi; it's just trying too hard to be edgy and subversive.

I was about to also guess about the quest being needing to get to L-1 or L-2 or something similar but Nibbi beat me to it.

I assume this is because of something to do with the character?
For the record, people shouldn't claim their picks exactly for these reasons.

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Exposure: I had that exact quest in a game I replaced into in order to make my role better. So I thought you read that game and saw it, or you were in it on another account.

Yeah, but that's not it to be honest, I naturally thought of it when thinking about not-so-good-looking quests, it's a pretty easy quest to come up with.

Can we move on from this conversation?
It's pointless and is taking up too much space.

Spoiler: Nevermind.

GDI Gamma don't just reveal my flavour like that

Maybe don't make obvious picks with easy solves for how they'd render into Mafia?
Like damn, son.

Nah I’d figure it would be MariaR’s flavor

What? Why?

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

Ditto on this, need an explanation.
+1 to Nibbul for driving the conversation away from shitposting and fluff, maybe they are tow--

nvm it's probably too soon for that

back to shitposting

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

-shrug-

i townlean you, mutant, and also maybe gamma. i figured that out of everyone who had posted so far, voting NK15 would be the most likely to have some sort of effect in helping sort him (along with his entrance being just sort of awkward enough for me to want to do so)

Can you go more into why you consider NK15's entrance awkward and worth voting for a sort?
Can you explain the townleans on Mutant and Gamma?
It seems like we're coming to a lot of the same conclusions here.
Which, on one hand, reassures me about you a bit, but
On the other
makes me noided AF.

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

(along with his entrance being just sort of awkward enough for me to want to do so)

yeah I was like

"if someone asked me who we should burn just based on entrance posts maybe NK15 wasn't a bad option huh"

but that's not a "reason" that we can discuss

voting NK15 would be the most likely to have some sort of effect in helping sort him

Mmmmh, maybe I'm being slow and I don't get it, but why? do you perhaps have experience playing with him?

Yeah I'm with Nibbul on this.
Please explain a lot more.
+1 to Nibbul.
Fairly certain Nibbul is lock-town here.

I'll help you with that as well

VOTE: NK15

I kinda get this.
Though I wish there was more questioning to prod NK15 into doing something.

yeah, a few games i think. i vaguely remember him overreacting to votes or something along those lines (i didn't really check)

And do you think that over-reaction would make his alignment clear?
Or is it liable to just get people ML'd and drive attention further away from the important parts of the game?

Mind telling why you think explaining the reaction test helps? I had a somewhat recent game where I saw someone was reaction testing me because I saw their post after posting about something unrelated to their test but still part of the game.

Who is this directed at?
Nibbul or NSG or both?

it was barely ever a "reaction test" in the first place, i just felt like voting someone and NK15 seemed like a good choice. the fact that i'm actually voting him and think that his entrance was awkward enough to warrant a vote has also not changed, so he's still that much actually closer to a lynch

I'm glad you stood by your vote and resisted shrugging it off as a reaction test.

Ok.

You're gonna accept that at face value?
What do you think of NSG's vote and open-pressure?

maybe and just maybe NSG is town.

I feel as if I've only seen her as town recently so I'm a bit afraid here though

NSG tends to obv-town though she's been really lazy lately so I dunno.
Why are you afraid?

i got my wiki up to date if you want to do more reading.

Gross.
Aint no one got time to be reading wikis.
Meta a trash anyway.
Why would you point someone AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND?
Just doesn't make sense to me.
Probably a playstyle thing though.

Are you activity telling me again -_-
I just read your PT for the coalition, and I object to the idea of a straight activity read. You can try to read me on engagement, I engage in different ways as town and scum I feel. But you can’t just try activity read me like Creature (which doesn’t work either).

Can you explain your history with people activity reading you?
I don't understand the context.

can't really activity tell you in the first 12 hours of a game. and despite what i said there, i didn't actually end up doing that.

What's informing your Gamma read then?

i got my wiki up to date if you want to do more reading.

Oh, that might help.

My to-do reading list is a bit rough here though, lots of people I don't have experience with or haven't seen enough of them.

Are you activity telling me again -_-
I just read your PT for the coalition, and I object to the idea of a straight activity read. You can try to read me on engagement, I engage in different ways as town and scum I feel. But you can’t just try activity read me like Creature (which doesn’t work either).

It's still amusing for me when you frequently post though (later or in the middle of the game)

it kinda feels like there is a elephant in the room and we might need to address it

I'm the elephant, right?
It's me, right?
No, really, what are you hinting at here even?

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

It's interesting that NK15 has come to this conclusion but problematic to me for a few reasons.
1. NK15 needs to drive attention elsewhere but isn't reacting to the votes on himself outright.
2. MariaR is likelier town than scum here even if it's sub-optimal play to claim bulletproof.
3. The outright condemnation without probing really seems like a mind made up rather than someone actually trying to gamesolve, which may be NAI, but isn't really pro-town to me.

Why don't you address the points against you, NK15?
Why don't you engage NSG?

I discussed all of those NK15. I don’t see why those are such atrocities?

Same. Good post by Gamma. Asking what needs to be asked.

I didnt even remember I signed up for this game till I saw the role PM.

Bad post is bad. You've got 70 posts to analyze here and you're posting this kind of entry-level fluff?
Let me show you how a real entry post should look, child.

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

VOTE: mutant

Why arent you more skeptical?

Why aren't you?

talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

She does this as scum and town.

Anyone can do anything as scum and town.
Pointless.
You're adding little to the convo right now Kokichi.
Change that.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

>"Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill"
>"Wasting a nightkill"
>NK15 is thinking from the perspective of a night kill not working as being a bad thing

Gg ez
VOTE: NK15

Yeah, this is kind of funny if true.
Please don't try to greentext on forums where you can't.
It's unbecoming of you.
Do you really believe in this as a slip?
What about NK15's play otherwise?

Let's uh
Let's try that again.

HI VARSOON ARE YOU TOWN? ^_____^

That shit should be evident from when this post finally goes through.
Yeah you better fuckin build a house and get a job in me 'cus I'm town as heck.
What about you, Elbirn, my pal?
You town?
Thoughts on other slots, pls?

Yeah nk15 post was bad. But lets not lynch yet. We should do a mini game today

I agree, we should do minigames instead of turbo-lynching.
I'm willing to vote NK15 for a few reasons but I'd much rather spend the day phase sussing things out.

It was bad but I'm trying to debate if he really belives it or not

Howso?

Oh, and I am a Miller.

Aren't you always?

You ignored my joke ;-;

What does ignoring the joke tell you about their approach to play here?

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Please don't fluff-engage.

Oh, and I am a Miller.

So, like this is supposed to be 100% trustworthy? I heard this in a past game but have minimal clue as to the actual validity. Although it’s possible there’s a connection between that and this because jjh and Nico were both in that game (Nico as Carnelian, who flaked) and iirc were in two slots that were both Miller.

It's really, really hard for me to believe Nico claiming miller.
I'll take it at face value, though.
There's no reason to believe an investigative check doesn't yield a guilty on Nico.
People are best served using such checks on other players anyway.
Nico will sort themselves out.

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Eww
Maria might be Mafia

Go on?
Are you still joking around here or is this earnest?

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Eww
Maria might be Mafia

WAT. THAT WAS LIKE THE MOST NAI POST IN MY ISO.

Are you still joking around here or is this earnest?

Oh, and I am a Miller.

You're an eternal miller

Basically what I mean with my earlier posts re:Nico.
What do you make of the claim otherwise, Kokichi?

Wait do you guys have like roles? I just have a flavor wtf

You should have 1 role and 2 flavor-roles that can become real roles.

You ignored my joke ;-;

That joke doesn't deserve a response n00b

Eww
Maria might be Mafia

WAT. THAT WAS LIKE THE MOST NAI POST IN MY ISO.

I’m not merely judging off what’s in that post. Either becoming a listmod changed you or thus is way too serious compared to the Maria I know, who would get upset at the joke or something.

Is it alignment-indicative?
If not, pls drop it.
Catching up is hard enough without having to consider the validity of Joke posts.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

Okay good but that doesn't diffuse the possible situation.
Please just address Gamma genuinely moving forward.

Wait do you guys have like roles? I just have a flavor wtf

You should have 3, one of them with the role explained and available
Do you not?

Setup is designed such that he does, don't let him trick you otherwise.
I think it's more likely Kokichi just didn't read right or something.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Yeah, jokes in games never are. Leave em for someplace else.
I'm tryin'a win this game, not make jokes.
Even if I am one.

Oh ok. Nvm. You guys should rig the mini game so I win.

I think everyone wants to win the minigames.

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

Fairly certain multiple roles unlock based on this.
Let's just have an actual competition to win them instead of colluding.
This sort of proposition is way worse than Maria's "someone put me in a PT" sorta thing.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Na you just don't get my amazing humor.

<3
I kinda got it
But seriously.
Please focus on the game.

mutant is town along with a hidden sr and tr I do not feel to name atm.

Why's mutant town here?
Explain how you came to that conclusion a bit more?

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

That only works if you win twice
The first time you win you unlock your own role
Unless you somehow just got no roles at all, which is kinda sketchy.

Yeah, ditto, think that a lot of people/everyone has a role that unlocks solely off of minigame
Since that's THE FUCKING SETUP.
"16. If you win a minigame, you will unlock your minigame role PM.
17. If you win a minigame and your minigame role PM is already unlocked, you can choose another player who will unlock their minigame role PM.
18. If you finish your quest, you will unlock your quest role PM."

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Na you just don't get my amazing humor.

Shooting someone down like you did isn’t funny, it’s insulting.

And if it's not alignment indicative, please drop it.
I'm tired of having to come back to this quote thread.
Damn.

mutant is town along with a hidden sr and tr I do not feel to name atm.

It's me.

I'm the hidden townread.

It's clearly me, Elbarn.

I...was making a joke back at you I thought that was painfully clear.

‘Twas not very funny.

Na you just don't get my amazing humor.

Shooting someone down like you did isn’t funny, it’s insulting.

This is really ironic but I'm gonna not continue this conversation.
Pedit: Oh no

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

That only works if you win twice
The first time you win you unlock your own role
Unless you somehow just got no roles at all, which is kinda sketchy.

No I automatically unlock their 2nd role PM. I just need to win 1

Since you're already soft-confirmed for poor reading comprehension ("Wait we have roles!?")
Please re-read the setup and your role so we know you're not just misreading.

Oh no

Mars is a very bad place for love

Maria for once I townread you. I swearzies I'm not scum

Can you explain how you came to this townread and, furthermore;
Why are you insisting you're not scum here? Do you typically scumread maria in games where you're town and vice-versa?

Oh no

Mars is a very bad place for love

OH NOOOOO

pedit: Unlock my 2nd pm and you got a deal

I'll unlock u any day bby

Oh gosh what if Kokichi went for the easy pick and that became his normal, or possibly worse his quest role

Fairly obvious.

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

>"Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill"
>"Wasting a nightkill"
>NK15 is thinking from the perspective of a night kill not working as being a bad thing

Gg ez
VOTE: NK15

Yeah no. A town nightkill is wasted because it could hit non-bulletproof scum instead( of verifying something that isn't towny in the first place).
The mafia nightkill is not in the hands of town so it is obviously not part of that verification process.

Cute that you're trying to twist this to being about a 'town nightkill' when in literally the site standard is that scum are the ones that do nightkills and town have 'Vigilante shots' and your original post that Elbirn took umbrage with only states 'Nightkill' and makes no clear indication that you intended 'town nightkill'.

Well, I'd still classify vigilante shots as nightkills. No, Mafia shooting a bulletproof vest is good, but that wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that it is nearly impossible to verify that BP vest without wasting a nightkill. Would mafia use their nightkill to prove that when its out in the open? No. Only a nightkill in the hands of town could do that, but that's suboptimal for town because it is only telling us that bulleproof was not a lie.
Which is kinda the problem with the claim here - openly claiming this is actually quite dumb for town, and MariaR isn't dumb.
No, this claim came from Mafia.

This away... the entrance from firebringer is bad because it is not committed. It is not a random vote. It's just stating the obvious in a careful manner. What I did was to make it an elephant from the molehill it was. It is not this bad. It is a slight scumtell, but not very reliably(but enough to push early) And the sheeping was... informative, at least. What gives me concerns more is post 12 because that is useless fluff like crazy. As such I don't really mind Chibi's vote on 18.
Nibbui is the first to vote somewhere else. And MariaR and the claim detract from that wagon early, too...
If we flip MariaR scum then Firebringer is very very likely scum as well. And based on Maria's play she is likely scum.

You done goofed. Don't quote my whole post again, please.

@NK15: Why are you so sure that MariaR is scum here?
And how is Firebringer likely scum with MariaR?

Right now my pools are:
Locktown: Nibbui
Not Lynching D1: NicoRobin, GammaEmerald, MariaR, NSG, mutantdevle
Everyone Else: Firebringer, RadiantCowbells, Not Known 15, Elbirn

Can we make a petition for Varsoon to stop responding to posts if all he's gonna say to them is a variation of 'Pls stop fluff/jokes'? He said that about like 10+ posts which is just a huge waste of space in a wall that's tedious enough to read as it is.

Pedit: Oh dear.

It does bear repeating.
I'd like people to focus on the game and we had plenty of content for people to grapple with even on page 1.
And, yeah, homeboy done goofed.

can we like...NOT quote Varsoon post?

It's already bad enough to skip it on pc, I don't want to even imagine what it's like to the guys using mobile

just say in the begin "Varsoon wallpost" or quote the specific part you want to talk, or something.

Quoting that isn't a good idea.

Also, remove the wall when quoting the last post of NK15 please :/

I sincerely apologize to all users, mobile and PC, for this.
If NK15 quotes this wall again, I'm gonna sit a vote on them for eternity.

Which is kinda the problem with the claim here - openly claiming this is actually quite dumb for town, and MariaR isn't dumb.
No, this claim came from Mafia.

I mean, I get your point about Maria and that's something I thought as well.
However I can as well see town intentions to her post...maybe. Can you see it as well?
Also, try to not say anything that can possibly hurt town when answering this.

I think I already pretty much called the fact that it could just be WIFOM.
It works as WIFOM to scum even if we call it out as such.
Does that make sense?

-snip-

Hey dickcheese
Don’t quote the whole post if you’re going to respond to one small thing

Yes, I agree, please don't quote the whole damn thing.
Ever.

P-EDIT: Wow I hit the smilies cap of 30 in this and had to manually remove people's smilies.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

Really have come to expect more than the nebulous reads and fluffposting from you.
Step it up.

[Nibbui]

I'm simply flufflying here to try to get to the next page because this wall is just too big and the page is kinda broken and I don't want to scroll this again :/

Let's see what I can post here...

December fun facts#1

Xmas cakes are pretty nice, and although I don't know if it's normal in other countries here we have a mix of Cake and Ice cream although it's not so popular.

They are the best.