Mini 2039: uPicketyPicketyPick Mafia Endgame


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Post Post #2275 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:36 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2234, Not Known 15 wrote:Mutant, why did you not vote for the entirety of Day 1?
What do you think about my case against Nibbui?
1. This is the first time I've not voted for an entire day phase but it isn't unlike me to go long periods of time without changing or placing a vote. I prefer to use my vote sparingly because it gives it more weight. If someone switches their vote between everyone they slightly suspect then it's not going to mean much when they change to someone new. Whereas, if you've only voted 1 or 2 other people, it means more when you do vote. I like to only use my vote to either seriously apply pressure or fully commit to a lynch. During the course of day 1 I felt no need to apply pressure to anyone that didn't already have pressure on them and I would have 100% been on the Varsoon wagon if A) I wasn't sleeping when it was decided that the lynch on Varsoon was finalised and B) FB didn't have a triple vote.

2. I think you're shit at casing people. You barely explained anything. There was only 1 thing you said that I agreed with. That said, I am fully willing to vote for Nibbui. I've had my eye on them for a while now and think they are scummy for reasons that you have failed to mention.
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Post Post #2276 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:37 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I don't really feel like Nibbui as scum goes after me. I think he would recognize how personally upset this game has made me and avoid it.
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Post Post #2277 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:38 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I think scum are probably going to avoid pushing me here (or would if I hadn't said this)
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Post Post #2278 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:41 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2240, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2237, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 2138, Gamma Emerald wrote:I wanna lynch mutant if Varsoon flips scum
Umm, why? I've been critical of Varsoon this entire game; even before the 1v1 started. What you're suggesting here is that my game plan would be to bus immediately, why do you think I would do that?
That argument would hold weight if you ever fucking voted. Since you didn’t it would have been pretty clear that you were holding out despite expressing interest which really looks like a softbus strat to me.
I guess we're just going to disagree here since it's clear you're not going to view my willingness to vote Varsoon as seriously as I do. In my opinion, I should be considered part of the Varsoon wagon in regards to VCA for the final 2 vote counts because if a lynch wasn't achieved by FB's triple vote then I would have been the L-1 or hammer vote.
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Post Post #2279 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:42 am

Post by Nibbui »

Actually, on second thought, NK15 isn't as objectively bad as I first thought.

For someone that doesn't know me it's somewhat understandable.

It's not understandable or good though that he only comes to push me/suspect me when I vote him.
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Post Post #2280 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:42 am

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I think I should read back and see who avoided the RC/Varsoon fight the most because scum wanted that alive for as long as possible if we assume RC is town here. (and I think we do)
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Post Post #2281 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:42 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 2279, Nibbui wrote:It's not understandable or good though that he only comes to push me/suspect me when I vote him.
this is not and has never been a scumtell
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Post Post #2282 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:45 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2243, Not Known 15 wrote:What's the town motivation into claiming Bulletproof if X happens when that makes scum, unless they have a strongman attack, unlikely to use their nightkill on them?
I'd like to encourage you to think about reasons beyond the information you are given on the surface. If you can't figure out what I mean by that then I don't wish to elaborate and if you do figure out what you mean by that then keep it to yourself.
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Post Post #2283 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:46 am

Post by Nibbui »

In post 2276, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't really feel like Nibbui as scum goes after me. I think he would recognize how personally upset this game has made me and avoid it.
Yeah I wouldn't be too friendly but I wouldn't antagonize you, and if you're town this is what I expect most of the scum to do.

Some may antagonize you to justify not voting/paying attention elsewhere though.
In post 2277, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think scum are probably going to avoid pushing me here (or would if I hadn't said this)
I'm surprised on the lack of a backslash to you after Varsoon lynch to be honest. People seem to be kinda avoiding saying anything to you.
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Post Post #2284 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:47 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 2283, Nibbui wrote:I'm surprised on the lack of a backslash to you after Varsoon lynch to be honest. People seem to be kinda avoiding saying anything to you.
When it turns out the guy was lying about being an IC I'm surprised I got any backlash at all.
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Post Post #2285 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:49 am

Post by Nibbui »

In post 2281, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In post 2279, Nibbui wrote:It's not understandable or good though that he only comes to push me/suspect me when I vote him.
this is not and has never been a scumtell
I can understand him getting maybe suddenly suspicious/aware of me when I voted him.

However, right now I'm more inclined to think that he simply wanted to backslash and him voting for Nico here would sound a bit bad, so he choose me.

I have way too many posts for him to have ignored me until now.
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Post Post #2286 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:49 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 2271, Nibbui wrote:
In post 2228, Not Known 15 wrote: TL;DR:
It is a very good indicator of scum if someone uses "to be honest" or similar often because town does have little need for dishonesty in the first place, and Nibbui has used it 13 times until now.
Nibbui used apologeticism multiple times to distance them from a lynch.
Nibbui made it clear that they are self-aware of their meta.
Their progression on mutant reads fake.
Their explanation of their vote on me is highly scummy.
Their backing down from NSG early looked like "oops I am pressuring a scumbuddy let's not do it"; why would town suddenly put all the pressure off there?
VOTE: Nibbui
1. I always use "to be honest" as either alignment and even out of mafia games, it's just a word I use frequently and I can prove it.
I can't find the post where you said who you also where - can you quickly give me the info please?
2. I'm not distancing myself from a lynch, sometimes I simply apologize for scum reading someone if I'm perhaps wrong (and I was). I'm probably not going to do that as much though, I'm tired of apologies.
It's just a fact that scum pre-apologize more than town.
3. Someone was accusing me of something and I just pointed it was NAI, didn't try to convince anyone to town read me based off that, although it's indeed town-indicative if you look on it at a superficial way.
If you are aware of your own meta then that part of your own meta you know isn't AI anymore.
4. Mutant did a similar setup talk in Open 720, I did butthead him there, and he was scum. I don't think it's weird or fake how I'm suspicious of him when he says something that sounds as trying to push forward his intentions.
5. It's not scummy. You lurk all day 1, come with a lot of bullshit posts and expect anyone to refuse lynching you when we only have 48 hours and you were the unique wagon with more than one vote?
Yes, at least if the voting period is 48 hours. You should normally at least try to get a lynch in on the most suspected candidate of yours; especially early in the period. If you don't you just empower the people who voted first; although this is probably not as scummy - it could probably also point to lazy town.
6. I'm vaguely aware that NSG is busy with irl and very pissed at people scum reading her only because of activity so I'm trying to let her do her own thing for now. I'll eventually need to take a definitive stance on the slot though.
this doesn't hold explanation though.
The part with NSG was very early when it was not forseeable that NSG would be not very active.

NK15, I was going for the sarcastic route in this post but I gave up and actually engaged you as bad/poor as this case sounds.

I have been posting it's been forever and only now, that I vote you, you think these actions are suspicious?

Can you get scummier than that? You're not helping me change my mind about lynching you, in fact this post just makes like the idea more.
No, it's just that we had a lot of volume and I was distracted by other things such as the varsoon/RC thing so that I mostly looked past you and when I looked at your posts after I saw that post that made me doubt your alignment to be town I found all these things.
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Post Post #2287 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:50 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 2285, Nibbui wrote:and him voting for Nico here would sound a bit bad,
Why?
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Post Post #2288 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:51 am

Post by Nibbui »

You are the most popular wagon, next is nico's. The most basic thought to avoid getting lynched would be to vote for Nico and that wouldn't look so good.
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Post Post #2289 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:53 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

So he makes a completely perfunctory vanity vote on someone who isn't scumread by anyone?
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Post Post #2290 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:56 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

the case on nk15 is that he's nk15 essentially imo
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Post Post #2291 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:56 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

i dunno maybe he's scum. i don't have a strong reason to think he's town.
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Post Post #2292 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:57 am

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If nk15 is scum those rapid votes on him had a busser for sure.
I bet Maria is scum this game
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Post Post #2293 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:59 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

Nico - MariaR, Radiant,
NK 15- Firebringer, Gamma Emerald, Elbirn, Nibbui, northsidegal,
Radiant - ChibiBear,
Nibbui - NK 15,

If Firebringer used their 3x voting on me(probably not possible because it is probably a day ability) then I am already lynched. Otherwise I am at L-2.
Nibbui, when you changed your vote the wagon you were on(Radiant) had more than one vote, btw.
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Post Post #2294 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:02 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2249, RadiantCowbells wrote:Do you think it wasn't, mutant?
If it was then what you'd be trying to tell me is that the entire 1v1 was entirely based on personal issues. You're both respectable players and I'd like to think that both of you are better than that. Going by how the 1v1 started, I think this 1v1 came from more than just a distaste for each other. You scum read Varsoon and wanted to lynch him first after he provoked you. Unless you doing that was indeed personal, I don't see how this whole thing has been TvT. But since you've expressed genuine reasons to scum read Varsoon I don't think it was.
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Post Post #2295 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:03 am

Post by Nibbui »

I can't find the post where you said who you also where - can you quickly give me the info please?
Just look at any completed town game in my Yuurei or Fumuki account. Specially Yuurei that is the most recent one and I got the habit of always saying "to be honest" more recently. It's NAI. There's actually a word that as scum I just can't not repeat sometimes but of course I'm not telling you.
It's just a fact that scum pre-apologize more than town.
and it's a fact that I do it as either alignment so what is your point?
If you are aware of your own meta then that part of your own meta you know isn't AI anymore.
It's not so simple to change your playstyle sometimes but anyway, I didn't insist that it's AI, that's up to if you want to believe/verify it. I'm insisting that it's NAI and that's a fact.
Yes, at least if the voting period is 48 hours. You should normally at least try to get a lynch in on the most suspected candidate of yours; especially early in the period. If you don't you just empower the people who voted first; although this is probably not as scummy - it could probably also point to lazy town.
Yeah and there's not much support to lynch Radiant and I don't want another 1v1, so I'm compromissing. Also I'm clearly lazy.
this doesn't hold explanation though. The part with NSG was very early when it was not forseeable that NSG would be not very active.
What do you mean? I engaged with NSG early yes, but she stopped posting and if I don't want to read her off only based on activity how can I not drop off for now my read on her? Also, now that I think about it, how I'm "bussing" her when I was actually town leaning her? In no moment in early game I found a problem with her posts, I simply wasn't sure if she was town.
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Post Post #2296 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:06 am

Post by Nibbui »

In post 2293, Not Known 15 wrote: If Firebringer used their 3x voting on me(probably not possible because it is probably a day ability) then I am already lynched. Otherwise I am at L-2.
Nibbui, when you changed your vote the wagon you were on(Radiant) had more than one vote, btw.
Yeah, it had 2 and we need what? 6 or 7?

Obviously not the lynch if I'm not willing to at least try a more intense 1v1 right now and I sure don't.
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Post Post #2297 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:07 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

Hm. Nico is indeed a lurker, just like I remembered... with a miller claim.
Which means that we need to read Nico and that's difficult if they are lurking all day.
So the question is indeed if a lurker lynch is currently the right venue. But no, there is nothing that should have made me suspect for trying to lynch Nico - and if the question is if I or Nico should get lynched then the answer is obviously Nico.
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Post Post #2298 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:07 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 2294, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 2249, RadiantCowbells wrote:Do you think it wasn't, mutant?
If it was then what you'd be trying to tell me is that the entire 1v1 was entirely based on personal issues. You're both respectable players and I'd like to think that both of you are better than that. Going by how the 1v1 started, I think this 1v1 came from more than just a distaste for each other. You scum read Varsoon and wanted to lynch him first after he provoked you. Unless you doing that was indeed personal, I don't see how this whole thing has been TvT. But since you've expressed genuine reasons to scum read Varsoon I don't think it was.
Why can't I have been wrong given that he lied about his role and that was a lot of my motivation?
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Post Post #2299 (ISO) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:12 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 2295, Nibbui wrote:
I can't find the post where you said who you also where - can you quickly give me the info please?
Just look at any completed town game in my Yuurei or Fumuki account. Specially Yuurei that is the most recent one and I got the habit of always saying "to be honest" more recently. It's NAI. There's actually a word that as scum I just can't not repeat sometimes but of course I'm not telling you.
Actually, now that you mentioned it I am asking you to reveal this. If you are town. Because you have to play to win this game, not future games.
It's just a fact that scum pre-apologize more than town.
and it's a fact that I do it as either alignment so what is your point?
That you should stop doing it?
If you are aware of your own meta then that part of your own meta you know isn't AI anymore.
It's not so simple to change your playstyle sometimes but anyway, I didn't insist that it's AI, that's up to if you want to believe/verify it. I'm insisting that it's NAI and that's a fact.
Yes, at least if the voting period is 48 hours. You should normally at least try to get a lynch in on the most suspected candidate of yours; especially early in the period. If you don't you just empower the people who voted first; although this is probably not as scummy - it could probably also point to lazy town.
Yeah and there's not much support to lynch Radiant and I don't want another 1v1, so I'm compromissing. Also I'm clearly lazy.
this doesn't hold explanation though. The part with NSG was very early when it was not forseeable that NSG would be not very active.
What do you mean? I engaged with NSG early yes, but she stopped posting and if I don't want to read her off only based on activity how can I not drop off for now my read on her? Also, now that I think about it, how I'm "bussing" her when I was actually town leaning her? In no moment in early game I found a problem with her posts, I simply wasn't sure if she was town.
I never said bussing. It just looked to me that you removed pressure from somebody without having gotten a reaction when town should usually strive to apply pressure.

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