Micro 839: Two-in-One (its over)

[Taly]

hey babes! been itchin for a reason to use my scythe-shotgun



get ready for unwarranted RWBY-centered GIFs this game

[Taly]

Initial thoughts. { most of this post was typed up with the GIF intro, didn't want to stall }

Not too keen on doublelynching one person, especially D1. I'm not doing probability, but that's almost a guaranteed mislynch somewhere.

Plus, I doubt everyone is posting as one alignment or the same role, so each game has different dynamics and voting as one gives less context for the next game phase.

If we all voted to doublelynch one person, how would we navigate the interactions with each wagon? Anyone who believes doublelynching and doublevoting is helpful should make their case.

Otherwise, the "we don't know so just lynch for both" seems like an excuse from scumhunting and reading between dialogue and discussion.

[Taly]

Elsa

and

Irrelephant

current interactions give me "eh" vibes.

How someone thinks they should vote here is not 100% AI.

The votes and responses like:
Irrelephant: "teach me like im dub" |||||||| "duh - 'insert subjective idea we should all know here' "
and
Elsa: "why are you throwing shade at me?" |||||||| "votes back for the same game"

feels a bit forced.

Irrelephant, you seem confident on how a scum and/or town mindset would think in this situation...
Elsa, what do you think about

xyzzy's

voting?

[Taly]

BEHOLD IT IS I, PINE, IN MY FIRST GAME IN LIKE SIX MONTHS

So hey y'all. I'm doing a new thing this game. I'm a VT/VT. Discuss.

Town pings.

How do you feel about

Elsa

and

Irrelephant

?

p-edit

Still waiting for your thoughts on

xyzzy

.

[Taly]

Irrelephant

, because

xyzzy

hasn't voted or mentioned me yet,

Irrelephant

mentioned me as a hypothetical scum for his point. You've only responded to one of them thus far, even though they both seem alright with double-voting.

I don't think

xyzzy's

vote in 30 was RVS?

[Taly]

also, if bolding gets too much for you guys, then ill just bold once for each person per post

[Taly]

Elsa and Irrelephant current interactions give me "eh" vibes.

I'd say meh vibes for Irrelephant.

For Elsa, it read townie - natural and well-reasoned. That surprised me, because last game we played, almost every post he made pinged me, and he made blatant setup errors. I was expecting more of the same here.

OTOH, he flipped town in that last game. And I should note that I replaced in like 80 pages into that one.

Yeah, I like the reasoning he gave, but then the same type of thing I felt odd about

Irrelephant

doing, I saw in

Elsa's

post. (filtered banter, quick back and forth with an equally quick end)

I also was expecting

Elsa

to make more commentary on my thoughts toward him and

Irrelephant

, and I'm curious why he still saw

xyzzy's

post in 30 as RVS in light of his back-and-forth with

Irrelephant

(Which I read as serious)

It's interesting that his posting here is different than his town game in the one you played (are you able to link?), do you think that could be meta-alignment indicative? I think I read somewhere that

Elsa

was an alt, and if it's of the person I'm thinking, I might have played with him before.

~

Another question to

Irrelephant

Why compromise your vote onto

Elsa

when you are making a point that double-voting/double-lynching is valuable?

And why B-7? Or did you close your eyes and pick a game?

Elsa

, why vote-back

Irrelephant

in B7 and not C-14?

[Taly]

I also like the idea

Maki

mentioned about different colors for different games.

Once people fully put forth themselves, organizing posts or parts of them under a game would help reduce miscommunication.

[Taly]

(to clarify I think Pine is scum in one game and VT in one)

This post tells me that 30 wasn't RVS

What scum-motivation have you seen in

Pine's

posts so far?

@Persivul

specifically 49

Do you think double-voting/double-lynching is a valid approach with the stated discussion so far?

And does D1 WIFOM = scum here?

[Taly]

Yeah, but...Townpings from me ought to be viewed with suspicion. Just sayin'.

So why comment on people reading you and not your thoughts on them?

[Taly]

btw, just noticed im familiar with over half the playerlist in some form c:

minus

irrelephant

and maybe

elsa

, but he's replaced in on game(s) ive flaked before ;-;

[Taly]

Or did you close your eyes and pick a game?

lol this sounded much less bitchy in my head

ill stop with the post-dump for now ;-;

[Taly]

@xyzzy's 56

I agree uncountered claims should be a pass, especially since this is D1, and different topics/games/lynches going on at once would be easier to create dichotomies and division within town.

But still, having one voice next game phase is less useful if we look at two games at once and try to find the interconnections.
I do understand your thought process more now, though.

[Taly]

What that I’ve said makes you feel the bolded?
Unless you’re just referring to my reason to scumread Elsa’s entrance to the thread?

Do you disagree that there could be scum motivation to lynching different people in each game?

I’ve tried to think about how someone would play as s/s, s/t, or t/t and i think FA’s suggestion is very fitting for s/t

Yeah, I was meaning your interaction with

Elsa

.

And no, I do see potential scum motivation in lynching different people. But I also see town. (For reasons why I think double-lynching wasn't a good option in my opening posts) 34 I think someone's idea on

"ideal play"

here is NAI to some degree. Which was why I felt off about you/

Elsa's

interaction, as if it were a forced dichotomy.

I voted Elsa with a random one of my two votes to try to show her how silly it is to only half vote (/I was kinda trying to be funny)
I do think the idea of using aritificial deadlines to play just one game at a time might be interesting

But I feel better about your intentions now with this.

In that case; just think if this were one game for a moment; what are your reads?

[Taly]

I think it's best to focus on one game at a time and time to break them up as clearly as we can. If someone has a town pm and a scum pt (and that's very likely odds) It should be easier to tell tone apart from game to game and we can look at someones flip from game 1 to see if we should flip them in game 2

I do like this idea the best thus far, it takes into account what everyone has thought about double-lynches/votes and how to interpret them.

This pushes everyone to be on the same page, and could reduce the muddling of information between games, and mislynches/misleading arguments.

I want to clarify something, first. (But despite mod's answer, I favor this idea.)

@Mod

Say, one lynch for D1 happens, but the other game hasn't lynched yet.

Would we get the results of that lynch immediately? Before D1 ends for the other game? Or do we get 2 lynch-flips at once, at the end of both dayphases?

[Taly]

Forgot to mention this in last 3 posts.

I'm OK with double-lynching/double-voting if we do it the way

Maki

introduced for reasons I just stated.

(Also, I typed up the previous 3 posts before I sent them so people can see my chronological line of thought.)

This game is becoming a quick thrill and I didn't quite expect it.

[Taly]

im alive guys, i had to poo for 22 hours straight

going to start organizing posts and thoughts now

[Taly]

Spoiler: Quote-By-Quote Post

Tfw you mention the idea of focusing on 1 game but Maki comes in and sweeps up the credit.

The closest thing I can think of in your ISO to

Maki's

idea is you expressing on Page 1 that you'd like to vote separately, not mentioning double-lynches/votes or how we should specifically handle the separate games.

Do you think the agreement with

Maki's

posts are unjustified? What is your read on her?

Pine, how do you feel about xyzzy and persival putting you at L-2 in both games at once for you claiming early?

How do

you

feel about it?

Ahh, the old "I know you are but what am I?" Trick. Amazing skillset to have.

This reads as deflective.

Clearly I still have my vote on irrelephant and my opinion about xyzzy was answered. The main thing I wanted was their opinion on you, and now I got that answer.

So your vote on

Irrelephant

since 7 is serious, yet you haven't directly engaged with him for about 50 posts?

36 - You said

xyzzy

was voting in RVS and to not be bothered with him, despite his partial agreement with

Irrelephant

on how to go about this dayphase - which I believe is the reason for your vote?

You are replying selectively.

Maki is a like minded individual. Much sense, she has.

The elephant has unexpectly disappeared. Wherever could he be?

19 hours to a bored Elsa is an eternity, and you were gone for 19 hours.

Especially down here - why the mention of

Irrelephant's

posting activity and not people that haven't posted for longer intervals?

[Taly]

@Irrelephant's 84

Solving for 2 games simultaneously makes a distinction between both difficult. I still agree with the plan given the mod's response.

Entertaining pre-flip associatives D1 will not help here. (Regarding

Elsa

)

Can you elaborate on

Maki

being VT+Scum?

do you disagree with my analysis that a person who is scum in one game and town in the other would prefer to be lynched in the town game given the choice between the two?

and if so, do you disagree that strategically taking away the ability for scum to do that is a good plan?

if you think I'm arguing in bad faith, then that's fair, but you haven't actually clarified your thoughts on my plan.

The bolded assumes that a mislynch would be made, and therefore, not a plan that is concerned with scumhunting.

Do you have other reads aside from

Pine

? And can you elaborate on how

Pine

is likely scum in at least one game given his opening post?

I'd like

Persivul

to answer the above as well, and for his read on

Maki

and her posts so far.

(About

Pine

) I don't see scum posting something that could be interpreted in many different ways as a VT/VT claim. It reads as gauging for reactions and thinking below the surface level.

[Taly]

I'm trying to do less walls and more concise/condensed version of my thoughts for comprehension.

Also, I'm probably going VLA from around Dec. 23 to Dec. 26 because of the holidays

I'll possibly still post within non-prod parameters, but just giving a heads-up.

I'll have a readslist soon

[Taly]

also

pers

, i wanna know what game about

elsa

you meant originally (and your reads there and here) if you are able to discuss it

ive played with

jaydragonking

once but it was awhile ago and so the meta is very unreliable

[Taly]

I dont remember you either, if that helps, Taly.

Meta isn't really something that works effectively on me since I change it based on my mood, the players, the setup, and the gamestate. Pick any of my 2 games and see if you see similarities.

Yeah, I think you're acknowledging specific posts and dodging others purposefully.

VOTE: B7 vote Elsa Jay

Read and respond to 91

Idea: we play this as 2 separate games. All posts for now are on one game. We set our own deadline for that game. Then we move on to the other with the mod's deadline.

Thoughts?

This has been said before and I've already agreed to it.

I've mentioned and asked you questions in 92...

[Taly]

Of course I acknowledge some things and ignore other things. I pick the things that interest me. It's what I do.

When someone interacts with me, I'm more likely to notice their disappearance in game. Who elsa disappeared that you wanted me to notice?

I want you to me actually engage me and stop avoiding me just because I bring content into the thread.

You're not actually answering the brunt of my questions or assertions - your responses are also quite passive toward me given how I've made commentary on multiple of your posts, which reads as disingenuous.

What are your reads and thoughts aside from

Irrelephant

?

[Taly]

@Persivul

105-106

I didn't read

Pine's

opening post as a claim, as there's no way of knowing that he's truthful. He also said

"discuss"

, implying he wanted people to debate his post.

So I took this as him stirring up conversation and getting reactions. He voiced his opinion on

xyzzy

so far and has engaged with you. I figured people who just wanted to lynch

Pine

in both games for the purpose of WIFOM were to just avoid scumhunting. I found

Pine's

post to be town-motivated in the sense that he's getting a feel for the players by attracting attention to themselves.

That's what I'm doing right now with my "in-depth" posts as you say... I can't articulate a full, strong read without generating discussion that requires it.

109

I don't see a flaw in FoS'ing, and double-lynching is viable if we believe one person is likely scum within both game discussions.

Policy lynching D1 is fickle considering this is a 7p micro with 2 games and opens up too much setup and mechanic discussion.

Persivul

, do you have any reads aside from

Pine

?

P-Edit

And

Irrelephant

?

[Taly]

I thought I was doing a decent job in causing uncessacary conflict to draw out scum by being ignorant and seeing who would gun for me.

Can I have some townread now?

Not from me - unless I have poor reading comprehension here - this post assumes that

specifically scum

would vote or suspect you.

You're playing defensively and without any clear motive to scumhunt.

Which makes sense to me, because your vote has not left

Irrelephant

since 7 but you've stated it was serious? Despite his unvote and note to re-evaluate? That's not a concern of yours, apparently. You're not making any conclusions based off interactions you've had, you're placing attention on anything away from that.

I want to hear

Maki

elaborate on 98; regarding her thoughts on

Irrelephant's

push and my thoughts directed to

Elsa

in my last few posts.

[Taly]

Persivul please explain your read on me

I said that, after you had one conversation with another person, I was "meh," i.e. null, on you. Your repeated requests for an explanation of my read feels forced - like you're scum paranoid that you don't look townie enough, and you want to know why so you can correct it.

C14: Unvote

B7: Unvote

B7: FOS Irrelephant

Your push on

Irrelephant

thus far seems focused around his read on you... Also, I don't know what meeting you've had with

Irrelepehant

before, but 116 is dismissive of him.

Can you post-link or point out specific things about what he's said to emphasize your point?

@Persivul's 114

I actually want to know why

Maki

and

Elsa

would rather do B7 first because I'm not seeing the reason that makes B7

"slightly more complicated"

[Taly]

Spoiler: *non-game* shameless promotion of new GTKAS thread

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78166

Spoiler: RWBY gifs to keep the mood c:

[Taly]

whoopsies i misread, i see ur point now

k, going to stop clogging up thread

readslist later tonight if more people post, or tomorrow morning before i start VLA

[Taly]

If we're going to stick with a certain schedule for games, we need more than 2-4 people actively scumhunting at once...

(Moderate Townread) Pine:

I feel similar toward his assessments of

xyzzy

and

Persivul

, and I believe his honesty, alongisde his below-surface scumhunting is town-motivated and geared toward gamesolving.

(Slight Townread) Irrelephant:

He's aggressive and confident in his pushes,

but

he also re-evaluates them, which strikes me as town much more than scum. I don't really see

Maki

and

Elsa's

suspicion there, and I'd like him to respond to

Persivul

before I think more here.

(Townlean) Persivul:

Nothing pulls me strongly one way or the other so far, but I think his burst of content displays a good town trait and his push away from

Pine

shows that he's actively scumhunting.

*Low Confidence* (Scumlean) Maki Harukawa:

Vague posts on thoughts, hints at scumreads but hasn't followed up much yet. I liked their opening posts about how to deal with two-games-at-once, but I question if that's town-motivated or not.

*Low Confidence* (Scumlean) xyzzy:

They've essentially been one-note so far in the game. I already stated that earlier discussions on how to approach this game were mainly playstyle, but I wasn't fond of the implications behind their initial reasoning.

(Moderate Scumread) Elsa Jay:

ISO me for my case here. There is being deflective to gauge for reactions, and then there's doing that in hopes to confirm preemptive suspicions on people like

Irrelephant

. I think

Elsa's

game has been the second option; I can't discern if he's scum/scum or scum/town, but I'm confident he is scum in one game at least.

To Help Bring Confidence To All Reads:

Maki

- Prompting you to reply to my questions in 129 and 130.

Xyzzy

- Prompting you to reply to my questions in 92.

[Taly]

I'm going VLA, but if I see a lot of people directly addressing me or a surge of activity that I'm not expecting right now, tbh...



I'll be prompt.

[Taly]

I don't know if you read my posts for the past 2 pages

Maki

.

There's more to my reasons on

Elsa

being scum in at least one game, as I've stated.
I've posed and linked my questions to you in my readslist.
I don't see how

Pine

"could be scum" as you say in 141, so I'd like to be enlightened.

I'm feeling a bit alone on the gamesolving part here.

(OK, now actual VLA because I keep looking back at the thread every couple hours and I need to unplug from this a bit.)

[Taly]

VLA over. Will definitely catch-up sometime within the next few hours. (Which unfortunately, doesn't seem like much to catch-up on. x-x)

[Taly]

:/ I did not get nearly the amount of responses, quotations, and questions as I'd like in the past 3 days.

*Read my ISO if I mention something you do not recall*

@Maki

Why are you ignoring me? I've had several posts that explicitly addressed a response from you or mentioned a read on you and you haven't replied to them.

This approach was a major reason why my scumread on

Elsa

had gotten stronger prior to my VLA, but you nor

Irrelephant

looked at my posts detailing my thoughts on

Elsa

in a full read before writing off the vote in of itself as weak.

I'd also like

Irrelephant

to expand on why he agreed with you on this, without stating his own reasoning.

@Elsa

Do you agree with a No Lynch in C14,

Elsa

? As I assume

Maki

would like, judging by her vote?

Also, why haven't you made any commentary on my read/posts toward you?

@xyzzy

Where did you get the idea that I scumread low activity players?

Has your opinion on how to handle this game changed with

Elsa's

recent explanations?

[Taly]

*non-game post*

Gender is not a dichotomy.

Respect their wishes.

Also this,

Elsa

, don't trivialize

xyzzy's

pronoun preferences.

[Taly]

omg i was just about to post

made a separate window when i previewed and saw the VC

[Taly]

I've been typing and looking at the screen for around 30-45 minutes.

Until I realized, that I'm either going to become a broken record with questions/assessments and pull teeth more, or lose the somewhat-declining strength with more than one read I have, or both.

I need to shift my approach.



VOTE: C14 vote Maki Harukawa

I'm rereading the thread and evaluating by Monday - likely ISO-diving, and hopefully

Persivul

would be done with his VLA so the playerlist can work toward being on the same wavelength.

[Taly]

Why Maki? @taly
@maki what do you think of Persivul scumreading me for wanting him to explain his scumread of me? Like??

The points on my readslist stand 135

Added Points:
-

Maki

never elaborated or responded to the points against

Elsa

, she's suspected and minimized any points directed toward him. 98 and 138
-

Maki's

kept her No Lynch vote on C14 for several pages now, and I doubt that it's "just RVS" at this moment.

I'm also pretty tired of my scumreads side-stepping me here. I can't think of a clear town-motive of not responding to multiple prompts of discussion when there's two games to dissect, and I've seen this behavior come most often from scum in my experience. I don't think there's a lot of strength or fire in my scumreads, but I think it's just about the most that has been presented in this game.

@xyzzy

, you've done nothing but game theory this entire dayphase while ignoring ANY attempt at town agreeing on a game approach, what are you basing your reads off of?

Especially the double-vote on

Elsa

despite them actually explaining their thought process in the past page or so?

~

Would really like to hear

Pine's

case for

Elsa

because minus

Irrelephant's

earlier push, I think I'm the only person who has cased and detailed a scumread.

At the moment, I'm a bit doubtful anyone rolled scum/scum this game, given the lack of vindication in the thread. As well as the specific setup discussion.

Will get around to more in depth analysis later, my parents went to spend the week with my brother who is stationed in South Korea. So me, my other sister and brother, have chores to do since friends are coming over.

[Taly]

How hard do I have to pull teeth to get someone to bite?

[Taly]

4/4 the people I've mentioned all have directed a comment at me since I've last seen the thread!

+1 to my motivation.

[Taly]

@xyzzy

, you've done nothing but game theory this entire dayphase while ignoring ANY attempt at town agreeing on a game approach, what are you basing your reads off of?

Especially the double-vote on

Elsa

despite them actually explaining their thought process in the past page or so?

this first part is just................................ factually incorrect. like go read my ISO and tell me that I've done nothing but setup theorize

also you're implying that my vote on Elsa Jay is based on me disagreeing with his lynch plan, which is not remotely true???

all of these questions are pulled completely out of your ass and in no way accurately reflect anything I've done

*ISO skim*

-You've double-voted

Pine

, do you still believe he's town/scum?
-You don't see

Irrelephant's

stretch of saying

Maki

could be town/scum of his assessment?
-You've reiterated your stance on double-votes and double-lynches a few times.
-You also note that you think

Irrelephant

is town in one game and

Elsa

is scum at least one as well.
-You've double-voted

Elsa

.

Have I missed or misread something?

Dude, Taly, I’ve pretty extensively discussed my suspicions of Elsa. ISO me.

*ISO skim*

And your vote?

[Taly]

Maki's kept her No Lynch vote on C14 for several pages now, and I doubt that it's "just RVS" at this moment.

Considering I've said I'm focusing on one game and I've been voting in the B7 game. Yes it's RVS although I don't see how even if the vote wasn't RVS it'd be scimmy

Maria

noticed me!

And I don't see how acknowledging any of my posts ONLY when you want to minimize them is towny.

You make statements about people's pushes but you don't iterate or expand on your own. 98 138 140 141 You say you're focusing on B7, but even though I've explicitly directed posts to you when I was gamesolving just for B7, you don't reply. 129 and 130 135 147 196

I'm post-linking just to make sure we're on the same page here. ^_^

It is noteworthy that you engaged with me when my C14 vote was on you, though.

I wanted to focus on Bird but

we're reaching the deadline faster then anticipated, due to holidays or lazyness if up to debate.

I'll be here more tommorow and I hope the 7 of us can get a discussion going.

What have I been trying to combat since my VLA?

I don't know how I can make myself clearer.

Thus far, my reads haven't changed much with the responses - or lack of - I've been getting. So right now, I'm going to stop doing this "throw question-respond to" approach since it's not viable at the moment, and ISO-dive. I've started a bit already, and I plan to begin posting some content tomorrow since it's New Years.

Also

Elsa

, it off-puts me that you continue to reiterate that you're focusing on Bird but you've never countered any point I made around my vote on you.

[Taly]

catching up tomorrow indefinitely, haven't had much desire or ability to devote to mafia in the past day because of new years

UNVOTE: B7 Elsa

Skimmed and saw the doc claim; not debating it at all and assuming it being 100% true is extremely beneficial for town.

For this, I'm not feeling good about an

Elsa

C14 lynch at the moment for following reasons:
- Likelier NK in B7
- C14 scum would want to drive a sudden lynch given the lack of discussion for that game, and I'm very suspect of the quickwagon there
- Not confident in

Elsa

town/town, but definitely am not seeing scum/scum

I dislike all of the

Irrelepehant

votes on page 10, even if

Elsa

is B7 IC

maki

scumread has stagnated and remained the same just like her recent posts

[Taly]

[Taly]

I dislike all of the Irrelepehant votes on page 10

clarifying, the votes casted ON

ire

not ones he posed

[Taly]

Everyone should read each quote reply. I "spoilered" them so it's not a text-wall eye-sore.

Also encourage people to quote my replies or post-link them for full transparency between the playerlist.

Spoiler: Quote Reply to Pine

See, the problem is that my PR style requires I be petty and kill you for making me reveal now. This is why I didn't want to reveal day 1. I'm fine with dying now, but

I wanted to help the cop tommorow

.

As for Claiming, I'm not getting lolhammered without claiming so scum have an excuse. The bird game had me as a safety net anyway.

Wait a tick, bolded is super hinkey. The Cop in Bird is Macho, and I don’t think anyone drawing the Doc would have forgotten that detail. I mean, think. You draw the Doc role, look at setup, and your first reaction would be “shit, I can’t protect the cop.”

This professed strategy reeks of “forgot the details.”

Seriously considering a Bird vote on Elsa regardless of claim now.

I completely fail to see your line to thinking here. Doc+Cop regardless of whether they can protect each other are helpful for PoE'ing scum by townbloccing. Assuming the claim is truthful is very helpful since this is a Micro where both games contain PRs.

Elsa

gains no long-term benefit as either town or scum in either game by claiming doc here.

This entire post about you wanting to vote

Elsa

serves to perpetuate WIFOM by placing doubt on concrete information town has, prior to any lynch flips or NKs to influence our thoughts. Your reasoning behind this is also subjective; just because

Elsa

couldn't protect the Macho Cop in B7 doesn't mean he doesn't falsify his claim and motive to gamesolve using his knowledge of being a PR.

I don't see this as a town-motivated argument.

Spoiler: Quote Reply to Persivul

I didn’t make you do anything, I was only the second vote

That's bullshit. Your vote was the second post after the VC. You knew it was L-1, didn't announce it, and now deny prompting the claim.

VOTE: B7: Irrelephant
VOTE: C14: Elsa

p-edit: you realized your mistake and are now trying to save face.

Happy New Year everyone!

I don't completely buy the "p-edited so I knew it wasn't the hammer". 265 Did you go back in your post and place a vote just because

Irrelephant

unvoted? Otherwise, you intentionally tried to hammer

Elsa

in C14, or you're voting

Irrelephant

in B7 for the same mistake you made by misreading VC.

I don't like either option.

I also don't get the auto-vote on

Elsa

in C14 here. You note in your recent posts that they're scummy, 262 but prior to your VLA you had a slight townread on him. 48

What changed there? And why is

Irrelephant

auto-scum for misreading a VC? You also disregard his post as

"he's covering up as scum" IN

the p-edit. Both of these votes feel forced and arguably opportunistic.

Also, judging by your votes, I'm guessing you think

Pine

isn't scum by your questioning in 266?

Spoiler: Quote Reply to Xyzzy

actually you know what I didn't bother reading 248 before hitting submit (I could've done a p-edit but I'm fuckin lazy) and

VOTE: B7 Irrelephant

that post is garbage! it's bad

I believe this is L-1

I thought you wanted double-votes and double-lynches originally? Or maybe I'm misreading because you never clarified that. 226

What was so bad about

Irrelepehant's

reasoning/vote/unvote on

Elsa

that made him confscum?

The fact that you didn't even read

Irrelephant's

post or clarify your thoughts on him being scum is extremely opportunistic, considering you L-1'd him of this basis.

Spoiler: Quote Reply to Irrelephant

?????
What about it is garbage?
Case me.

There is 100% scum on my wagon at this point; no one has a case on me except “your mistaken vote must come from scum”

I honestly agree. Just on the fact alone that you were pushed to L-1 in B7

(Elsa B7-IC, Persivul, xyzzy)

rings town-indicative of you imo and the votes there just sucked.

Even

Elsa's

, but w/e.

What are your thoughts on

Maki

? I fully elaborated on my thoughts on her in my Quote Reply.

Spoiler: Quote Reply to Maki Harukawa

That c14 vote count is something alright. No comment

Maybe if you actually put up a vote... We are down to ~3 days you know. Feel free to actually take a stand.

More like I hate both wagons. I'd vote basically anyone else

This response here perfectly shows the main reasons behind my scumread on you.

You're keeping C14 at a

No Lynch

vote, and while you don't want to keep it there 284 you don't do anything about the fact that you dislike both wagons. 280 You being "alright" with any other vote or lynch at this point in the dayphase means you're OK with any viable option that SOMEONE else generates, given your other posting. 271

The dismissal of my case and vote doesn't just ring as you stalling or deflecting, but me having SOME form of correct analysis on you, and you don't want to acknowledge it.

You also haven't pushed for the

xyzzy

B7 vote, you've just stayed there... 141 242 You mentioned you wanted to prioritze B7 first, but never committed to it that much. 97 It's been months since I've played with you

Maria

, and while I get you keep info. to yourself as town, the lengths that your going at feels disingenuous.

And yes, part of my read is meta-influenced, but it's not strong, nor is it the driving reason of course.

I'm having a difficult time seeing you as town/town in any scenario, and I want to work with people here.

[Taly]

Quick Both-Game Reads

Scum/scum feels unlikely on anyone at the moment.

Pine

Townread early posts. Unhelpful argument against

Elsa's

B7 claim, but there was a quick vote on him in C14 and I want that vote explained.

Light Townread

/

Light Scumread

- Unsure of Game

Persivul

I like his push for content, but I'm not in favor of his votes and reasons thus far. Not getting a town/town feel with overall posts.

Unconfident Townread

/

Unconfident Scumread

- Unsure of Game

xyzzy

I want to townread based on a lack of defense from anyone and lack of cohesion with playerlist. Though several posts don't make sense from a town POV.

Light Townread

/

Scumread

- Unsure of Game

Elsa

Claimed Doc in B7. Quick L-1'd in C14 suggests he's town, though based on his overall posting, I'm not ruling out Doc/Scum.

B7 IC

/

C14 Unconfident Townread

Maki Harukawa

I doubt scum/scum, and I can see town somewhere... But I'm unconfident in that, and I feel my case on her regarding C14 is stronger.

B7 ???

/

C14 Scumread

Irrelephant

I found

Irrelephant's

entire ISO to be pushing for discussion in some manner, even to his gut double-vote which L-1'd

Elsa

in B7. There

must

be town/town in this game and this is my strongest read on that. He was L-1'd quickly in B7, and his C14 vote feels sound.

B7 Townread

/

C14 Townread

Irrelephant/Elsa

register as town/town to some degree.

So I'm not voting to lynch either of them as of my current reads.

And yeah, I'm actively saying "no" to any wagon on them.

[Taly]

literally taking this huge shit on the thread took 2 hours to fully type and articulate

now im actually bloated IRL. hello irony

... fuck me

[Taly]

oh and merry christmas/happy new years

idgaf if im late c;

[Taly]

-_-*...

[Taly]

this was probably unclear but what I meant was if someone claims in a game I'm fine with having two separate lynches instead of the same person in both games

post 248 was made while I was in the middle of writing post 249 and I didn't bother reading the post and doing a p-edit before submitting 249. after submitting 249 I read 248 and I decided to vote Irrelephant in 250.

congrats. this was all the clarification i needed

now can you actually explain your

Irrelephant

B7 scumread/vote because I don't see it, and I'd love to know your thoughts on

Maki

having her sole vote on you for 150 posts.

Spoiler: Quote-By-Quote reply to Pers

Why not?

The p-edit shows I was aware of the post. The post contained an unvote which I indirectly referenced in saying he was trying to save face. How in the world could you conclude that I thought I was hammering there?

Because this post was an assessment toward

Irrelephant

-scum in B7 and the votes weren't in your p-edit. That was my line of thought.

265 Did you go back in your post and place a vote just because

Irrelephant

unvoted?

Yes. I initially had an FOS there. I use them sometimes, as in 117.

ok so

"Otherwise, you intentionally tried to hammer

Elsa

in C14, or you're voting

Irrelephant

in B7 for the same mistake you made by misreading VC."

no longer applies

Do you realize that we don't have much time left? Do you think your lone vote in 1 game and no vote in another are helping town?

YES. YES I AM AWARE. THATS WHY I MADE A READSLIST WITH QUOTE-REPLY PROMPTS.

Up until the last 2 days, I could've posed these questions to the playerlist as a whole.

I'm not making a half-assed vote for a lynch when my reads and thoughts aren't clear. Lack of transparency is equally detrimental to both games as town.

I plan to have a decision made before the deadline on both games, but I thought my readslist would actually push people to case or engage with me aside from my direct quotes to them.

You're casting shade in saying "auto" here and later. Why do you term it that way? Not everyone wall posts you know.

I get that people don't post walls. That's been an earth-shattering experience for me

I termed my thoughts this way because this was your opener from VLA, and I wanted to push for your explanation about them so I can evaluate your thought process behind the votes.

So...why do you town read Elsa?

i believe the doc claim for B7.
i didnt like the quickwagon votes for C14 and i figured scum would more likely push to eliminate someone from the thread narrative by D2. i dont confidently town/town read anyone that went on the

Elsa

C14 wagon.

i dont have a strong

Elsa

C14 townvibe, and i see your point about them using the doc claim for both games.

Irrelphant/Elsa

have not changed there votes with your explanations, does that affect your read on them?

And why is

Irrelephant

auto-scum for misreading a VC? You also disregard his post as

"he's covering up as scum" IN

the p-edit. Both of these votes feel forced and arguably opportunistic.

Again, why do you characterize it as "auto"? I FOS'd Irrel back in 117, yet you're acting as if I made a snap change in read here.

im unconvinced of

Irrelephant

-scum in any game at the moment, and im annoyed that all the people that has voted him has NOT recognized my townread on him.

do cases not exist anymore? or do i really have poor reading comprehension?

Also, judging by your votes, I'm guessing you think

Pine

isn't scum by your questioning in 266?

They town read me but not in a buddying way, and their read on Elsa aligns with mine. So, no, I don't scum read them.

i still dont believe

Pine

town/town with his rationale on the doctor claim and if i havent explained that enough, let me know.

Do you have a response to my quote-reply to

Pine

, if you disagree?

[Taly]

Taly you should move both your votes

Actually, the Maki vote might be okay
But you should place the other vote somewhere

i made an indirect reply to this about "im not voting if i dont have clarity" in the

Pers

quote-by-quote

What I really want to know?

Why is

Maki

vote "might be OK" when

Maki

has deliberately side-stepped any attempt I've made at engaging with her?

I cased a full scumread on her within C14 and the only responses I've gotten over this has been "are you really going to keep your vote there?"

When I'm not the only person noting her lack of pushing?

its frustrating me so much that most of my posts today have accomplished seemingly nothing when im trying to have someone work with me here.

My life is flashing before my eyes in c14. I know assassins are also coming for me in B7. Someone save me.

Then actually case your push on

Persivul

in C14.

He replied to my assertion that he tried to hammer, and you haven't engaged with that.

At the moment, I don't feel quite strongly enough to switch when people have blatantly avoided my case.

[Taly]

I also want

Maki

to actually build onto her thoughts toward

xyzzy

-B7 scum because as far as I've seen, she's voteparked and used that as a means to not do anything else.

[Taly]

I'll prob be forced to vote Ire idk who to vote in the other game

To clarify, you mean voting

Ire

in C14, correct? Either way, why?

I need someone to explain what scum motivation they see with

Ire

because I'm not seeing it. :/

Along with the fact I've been irl/sick. I feel somewhat better. Taly I've ignored everyone not just you for the most part. If you want to put everything you wanna ask me in 1 post I'll answer.

1)

Do you think

Elsa

is town/scum? Do you think any C14 votes there are unjustified?

2)

What are your grievances with the C14

Persivul

vote?

3)

What are your thoughts behind my own vote on you?

4)

Can you explain your

xyzzy

B7 vote? (I also want

Irrelephant

to explain this as well)

5)

Do you believe

Elsa's

assessment about

Pine

in B7? And that he's likely scum there?

[Taly]

With some thought and reread of the past 3 pages, my feelings on the

Elsa

C14 wagon are taking a 180, and that

Pine/Pers'

votes were town-led. He is using his claim for both games. (247 294 to divert gamesolving)

I want

Elsa

to explain why

Pine/Pers

would be scum in separate games if they're both centered on lynching him in C14. 258

I'm having a hard time seeing

Pine

as town in B7 for 241, but not for

Elsa's

reasoning. I explained it in my quote-reply. 285

I'd like

xyzzy

to put effort in explanations for his votes so he's more clear. I want a B7-specific case because I can see reasons he could be town/scum in either game.

I'm thinking

Pers

is most likely to be town/town out of

Pine/Pers/Elsa/xyzzy

with everything considered.
I wish I could say

Elsa

too, but not with their ISO.

[Taly]

It makes sense that

Pine

had a genuine scumread on

Elsa

in C14, and didn't want to vote

Elsa

in B7 for suspicion after an

Elsa

townflip.

Pine

stated voting in a game like this is reckless, and didn't place any vote until I prodded 219 - even when he stated

Elsa

was the best lynch and had a case when he was being voted in B7. 217 - 222

The doubtcast on the doc-claim seemed to read as a reason to lynch

Elsa

in B7 anyway, judging how

Pine's

241 was before any unvote on

Elsa

-B7. 245 - 249 - 276

VOTE: Bird 7P vote Pine

This is currently my strongest scumread/case that is Bird 7P-specific. I'm still wanting to hear out

xyzzy

/

irrelephant

reads on either game.

[Taly]

Taly I've ignored everyone not just you for the most part

this makes me think ive been tunneling a little ;-;

but im doing A+ effort for that D2 both-game townbloc

maki

<3



still not seeing you town/town tho so please reply before deadline ty

[Taly]

I thought more people would post in the past 4-5 hours.

But if there's no majority, it's an auto no-lynch here and that won't get us anywhere.

I think my case on

Pine

-scum in B7 is a good game-specific assessment, but I don't see town/town

xyzzy

.

I still have some reservations lynching

Elsa

in C14, but I only feel confident

Elsa

is town in B7, and I did have a strong town/scum vibe on him earlier this dayphase.

I'm expressing intent to hammer and/or L-1 xyzzy-B7/Elsa-C14 an hour before deadline (at the earliest):
- if a conclusion hasn't been made.
- if my mind on lynch options change from the current ones via replies I've prompted.

If someone thinks an hour out from deadline is too early, then just say so.

[Taly]

@Taly: I don't want to stick you with two hammers, but xyzzy was online recently and this needs to be addressed.

VOTE: B7: xyzzy

L-1

I was typing the L-1 vote post, p-edited, saw your L-1 vote, typed again - got p-edited when I submitted, and then saw

Elsa's

hammer....

We're not letting them claim cop to do something horrible later on.

As for C14, I admit when I'm a PR I get scummier and scummier, but all of my actions this game, including this hammer, is because I'm a PR. Not because I'm scum in C14.

Why didn't you still give him any time to respond to the playerlist? Or for anyone else who hasn't posted today? Why would him claiming cop be 100% untruthful?

You still didn't put up your thoughts on a C-14

Persivul

case 298 or my prompt in 307

1) I think Elsa is being Elsa and that's making people sr them. Do I think the scumreads are unjustified? Yes but they're still nullish
2) Persivul is the most obv town in the game so I don't get why he's a wagon
3) Your vote on me isn't something I care about
4) His whole way of wanting to go at this game along with his reaction to pine is scummy. Nothing has made me change my mind.
5) Pine is somewhat towny and I won't be voting them over the other 2 in B7

1)

Why haven't you voiced more against the wagon then? Do you have a C14 scumread?

2)

I'm beginning to agree at this point.

3)

ouch, i just wanted 2 b a

maria

;-;

4)

Ah

5)

Do you think my case on

Pine

isn't solid? (Asking

Pers

this too)

[Taly]

3) Your vote on me isn't something I care about

But really, I just don't understand this, tbh.

Out of all the mafia games I've played, I haven't seen this sentiment come from town from the extent I've pushed.

I've seen scum - especially games I've lost - do whatever they could to ignore or minimize my votes. If you don't pay a push attention, then nobody else would push it, right?

Are all my posts directed toward you invalid? I don't know if this is just a big playstyle difference but it's annoying the piss out of me.

[Taly]

pers

, be very direct and honest

do you think

maki

is scum? do you think i am tunneling - or if my vote is unjustified?

[Taly]

My intent to hammer

Elsa

-C14 still stands, but I'll wait closer to deadline to give

Pine

and

xyzzy

time to post.

[Taly]

VOTE: C14 Elsa Jay

[Taly]

@Elsa

I thought the unconfident part was very clear. I also stated that my attitude toward your wagon shifted near EoD1, and I figured my original thought on you being town/scum was correct.

You also ignored to reason for

Pers

scum-C14, which made me further think that you were ONLY posting to protect yourself through your claim in both games, and therefore to distract from scumhunting.

Plus, nobody entertained any question or push I made in C14, so the

Maki

C14 NK reads solely as a means to generate suspicion of me here.

~

I'm confident

Ire

is town in C14, so I believe both C14 scum are within those that voted

Elsa

,

{Pers, xyzzy, Pine}

For B7, the protect on

Maki

confs her alongside

Elsa

. I think

Ire

is likely town in B7 as well. I think the Macho Cop check-claim would help.

[Taly]

[Taly]

VOTE: B7 Pine

The point of "not bussing" doesn't apply to me, there were multiple instances where I pushed

xyzzy

aside from a vote, and my scumread on

Pine

in B7 was stronger as D1 ended.

Pine's

cop claim makes 0 sense for why he'd want to pursue

Elsa

in a vote in either game while doubtcasting the doc claim. 240 and 241

Also,

Pine

, I'd like know why you kept stating

Elsa

was the best lynch option on D1 but never pursued your suspicion on

xyzzy

. 72 You also didn't engage with

xyzzy

after that, or contributed to any discussion revolving around him when the wagons on him began.

Taly what makes you confident enough to clear me in C14?

As

Pers

said last dayphase,

"read in between the lines"

.

[Taly]

Pedit: ... Would Pine really claim cop as scum in a 1 v 5, Taly?

If it bought him a day, of course.

Why would he doubt your doc claim if he were a cop himself? He's not possessing a mentality of elevating town through his investigations. (As he never entertained the

Maki

push in C14 but "copped her" in B7, which wouldn't clear any minor-wagon suspicion generated in B7.

Maki

, aside from my own push, and

Irrelpehant's

follow-up vote in C14, she wasn't in danger of being lynched.)

It makes a lot of sense for him to jump on my wagon off the fact that I wasn't on the

xyzzy

lynch-vote EoD1. It'd be a very easy argument to incriminate me as B7-scum, and he hasn't even responded to ANY point I made on the B7-scum-case at the end of D1.

[Taly]

Interesting. Taly votes for me in the OTHER game as his OMGUS. Wondering now if he’s scum/scum

Again, another false statement. I've said you were scum in B7 and feel you were likely town in C14.

The "OMGUS" is solely to downgrade any scumread I place toward you and the I'm "scum/scum" argument completely casts any interactions I've had with each individual in the game.

Plus, you believe I'm scum in C14, too? Where's the vote there? Or were you waiting for

Elsa

to pursue his C14 suspicion on me so you'll feel comfortable, right?

Because you don't want to vote someone until there's already another vote present. Re: The

Elsa

C14 vote after

xyzzy

.

Makes the whole

"I'll NK

Maki

in C14 to suspect

Taly

"

much more easily for you.

[Taly]

I SHALL EXPRESS MY DEEP DISAPPROVAL AND UNHAPPINESS IN VIOLENT RWBY GIFS

[Taly]

if the next post isnt a vote in B7 im going to consider going on VLA for longer than the 3 days i plan take off once my next college semester starts...

...which begins tomorrow -_-

[Taly]

i have so many thoughts that are BEGGING to be posted but i cant do that until

maki

says her piece in B7 and we stop talking about the game :/

if i ever get accused of playing against wincon for any reason in this entire game, im going to go ballistic.

i didnt scum-claim and i refuse to self-vote, ive never done either thing and im not going to start

[Taly]

I'm still holding on to my vote and points on

Pine

in B7.

[Taly]

anyone who thinks im scum in C14 should exit out of this thread, scroll to the queue subforum, and sign-up for the newbie queue and REFUSE an IC/SE position for your next 5 games there

or you're just scum in C14



have a good day

[Taly]

then get on with it, damn

[Taly]

actually, that's a very good question.

I'll wait.

[Taly]

[Taly]

Better Phrase Q to Mod-
Hypothetically, if a game-ending lynch happened in ONE game (like B7) right now, would all the dead players in the OTHER game (like C14) automatically be removed from the thread?

Or would they ONLY be removed from the game when BOTH lynch flips are revealed at the end of the dayphase?

[Taly]

guys hold the fuck up i just got here

[Taly]

Also, I haven't claimed shit so if anyone says I have at all then they're lying through their teeth.

[Taly]

Maki

hammered!!!!

[Taly]

ugh finally

i was 100% done with pretending ALL my C14 reads were in B7 in order to save my ass.

town won B7

[Taly]

[quote="In post 457, Pine"

ugh finally

i was 100% done with pretending ALL my C14 reads were in B7 in order to save my ass.

town won B7

You seem very happy for a dude who just lost a game.

I don't have to bullshit anything anymore

I never knew how much I appreciated being town since this game!

This was also my FIRST scum/antitown-lost. ((Outside of

xyzzy's

echo bay game last year but that wasn't normal at all.))

I'm a bit impressed with

Elsa/Maki

tbh.

~

As a prize for B7 town win, I'm going to make ONE thing clear.

I NEVER lied about a read I had.
(unless it was

xyzzy

as town in either game because my god was I stretching to avoid that B7 lynch.)

But I did lie about where the reads were in each game.

Anyone who contradicts any statement in this post, I'm 200% coming for a lynch on you!

[Taly]

[Taly]

Maki

wasn't my first shot, as I knew you were likely to protect her,

Elsa

But

xyzzy

said it wasn't an unreasonable thing to do regardless of my thoughts.

[Taly]

elsa

B7's over, it's time for C14.

I have 2 people I'm willing to lose the game over tunneling because I feel so strongly that they're scum in C14.

There's another I'm not sure about, but I do townread.

There's one person I have a strong townread on in C14.

Talk to me.

[Taly]

Now that

Pine's

Macho Cop claim has been confirmed for B7.

I'm going to dissect this post.

Hmmmmmm that also makes sense.

I am the Seer, with a "not werewolf" inno on Maki.

Fullclaim

: I am Seer/Macho Cop, and I double-investigated Maki N1, with no incriminating results.

1) Why did you claim an investigative in C14, unprovoked? Nobody was even talking about C14.

- If you really are a Seer in C14,

then why are you literally giving scum notification of your role? This is lylo, but there's 2 mafia left.

- If you aren't a Seer in C14,

then you're lying as scum to bait a CC.

There's no pro-town option here.

2) If you really are a Seer in C14, then why did you vote to lynch

Elsa

in C14? Let's convert my B7 scum-case on you to C14, because I didn't lie about how scummy and terrible it was to do for someone who is town, and has an invest role.

And the

"but I still scumread him"

argument doesn't work. Because you definitely pushed for

Elsa's

lynch in B7 by denying his Doc claim and baiting a CC if

Elsa

weren't a doc.

3) Why did you still WANT to lynch

Elsa

in B7? Even if you were a cop there?

I don't know if I believe the double invest claim here.

Pine

isn't this terrible as a Town PR and I haven't played with him before.

[Taly]

Interesting. Taly votes for me in the OTHER game as his OMGUS. Wondering now if he’s scum/scum

Obviously, I misremembered. 375 retracted.

Also, congratulations on the backtrack here.

Maybe I was correct about this part of my post, then?

The "OMGUS" is solely to downgrade any scumread I place toward you and the I'm "scum/scum" argument completely casts any interactions I've had with each individual in the game.

Plus, you believe I'm scum in C14, too? Where's the vote there? Or were you waiting for Elsa to pursue his C14 suspicion on me so you'll feel comfortable, right?

Because you don't want to vote someone until there's already another vote present. Re: The Elsa C14 vote after xyzzy.

Makes the whole "I'll NK Maki in C14 to suspect Taly" much more easily for you.

[Taly]

Also

Pine

If you're town/town.

Please give me a STRONG-ass case on how

Pers

is scum in C14, and

xyzzy

is scum/scum.

Because I think

Ire

is town in C14, and if you think I'm so desperately wrong, prove it to me.

[Taly]

Now let's get to

xyzzy

because damn do I have some words for his recent posting.

okay now that that's over Taly claimed C14 cop in our B7 PT so there is 100% scum in {irrelephant, Taly} and I got the vibe from that PT that he was telling the truth

WHY WOULD YOU EVER OUT THIS AS TOWN IN C14?

Regardless of the validity here, you're using an unconfirmed claim of ANOTHER PERSON to CC someone else's and uproot theirs.

Also, nice way to BAIT an actual PR to CC. There's 2 mafia left in C14, and you're actively digging for a valid CC claim by trying to out someone else.

You're the only person I would've entertained scum/scum as, and the stupid push on

Ire

-town in C14 almost confirms me I was correct.

[Taly]

I'm not lynching outside of

xyzzy/Pine

in C14 this dayphase.

Which one is first?

[Taly]

you should really look at the p-edit before you post,

xyzzy

.

Why are you town, again?

[Taly]

Why would you

Pers

? I don't understand what the pros are?

And do you not have an opinion on

Pine/xyzzy

in C14?

[Taly]

Give me one really good reason why any CC should happen right now.

[Taly]

oh, so we're using buzzwords to belittle any actual arguments I make now?

VOTE: C14 Pine

[Taly]

If someone actually looked an inch into any C14-oriented posts I've made this dayphase so far; if you don't think I'm confscum for some misconstrued reason, then it's not hard to figure me out here.

[Taly]

Then tell me who you think the other two scum are.

p-edit

If someone actually looked an inch into any C14-oriented posts I've made this dayphase so far; if you don't think I'm confscum for some misconstrued reason, then it's not hard to figure me out here.

Wait, so are you countering Seer?

I’ll go 1v1 with you any time you want

Ugh god... this is becoming stupid.

[Taly]

That's the point of being scum in lylo when you know there's a valid argument against you and you realize that it's going to be very hard to mislynch me in C14.

[Taly]

Me/Elsa/Maki - The three Maria's sipping tea

[Taly]

imo irrelephant is lying

Calling it.

xyzzy is bussing Irrelephant here.

This remains my best guess, by the way.

Remind me of your individual reason of thinking

Irrelephant

is scum, again? I don't think you've ever pushed that.

And also, we BOTH agree

xyzzy

is very likely scum/scum.

Where's your vote on him? And beckon call for me to L-1?

[Taly]

Taly, please claim. We’re in LYLO, and xyzzy says you claimed Cop, while you just softed Seer.

I never said

"seer"

in my post or alluded to a CC on you at all. So I don't know why you automatically thought I was softing anything, or CC'ed you.

The

"I'll 1v1 you right now"

seems both forced and weak considering you haven't even read my case yet.

I'd like

Ire/Pers/you/xyzzy

to ALL give me a reason why all claims should happen WHEN 2 mafia are left?

There's 2 invest roles in C14 if I understand the setup correctly, but there's no guarantee both invest roles are functional.

[Taly]

You misunderstood that post, alongside literally any other post I've made this dayphase.

[Taly]

I don't trust any L-1 vote until

Elsa/Maki

weigh in.

[Taly]

So you can have a reason to NK me tonight?

Don't think so.

[Taly]

Also, kudos on completely deflecting any argument I made on you in Page 18

Pine

You can do the whole

"Seer and Cop are huge role distinctions"

, but nothing about you says town/town to me, especially Town PR/Town PR.

How about you actually tell me why

Irrelephant

is scum? Forget the claims, forget any associative or bussing, why is

Ire

scum?

Cool

Lynch Taly now

(<3 Taly)

Cool

Lynch Taly now

(<3 Taly)

This

Also hardclaim C14 cop inno on Persivul

On second thought, Irrelephant is absolutely ballsy enough to pre-emptively claim Cop. We're in 3:2 LYLO, so he has nothing to lose. Balls, there goes that POE.

imo irrelephant is lying

imo irrelephant is lying

Calling it.

xyzzy is bussing Irrelephant here.

okay now that that's over Taly claimed C14 cop in our B7 PT so there is 100% scum in {irrelephant, Taly} and I got the vibe from that PT that he was telling the truth

All of these posts happened in chronological order.

That tells me the

Ire

lynch was setup.

[Taly]

So you can have a reason to NK me tonight?

I'm done with this conversation.

If neither of you have a reason to ACTUALLY state

Ire's

scum other than a ass-pull unconfirmed CC, then you're both scum, trying to gauge which one of us you'll NK tonight when you can't lynch the other and one of you gets caught.

[Taly]

When scum is giving you the ultimatum of CC'ing or getting

"mercilessly

(mis)

lynched"

[Taly]

UNVOTE:

hold up, explain

Pers

[Taly]

just got home

[Taly]

Should I claim or not? The only reason I'm finally debating on this is because

(xyzzy, Pine, Pers)

can't all numerically be scum.

[Taly]

The fact

Ire

posted and didn't auto-vote

Pine

makes me feel I'm right in my reads somewhere.

Plus, why would

Ire

-scum in C14 have

Maki

NKed when he was on the wagon with me?

I just can't see

Ire

-scum based off play... and

xyzzy

completely took every bit of power I had over my play here when he stated I claimed in our PT.

I don't like anything about that. I don't like that

Pine

automatically jumped on

Ire

either the moment HE saw

xyzzy

say

Ire

was lying about his claim.

I don't like that

Pine

says

xyzzy

IS scum in C14 but is so adamant to force a claim stance out of ME to confirm a LYNCH possibility on

Ire

.

[Taly]

I just want full clarity on my thoughts first.

(Mostly for Pers)

Hypothetically, in the event that I TRUTHFULLY told

xyzzy

I'm Cop in C14...

The only way

Pine

comes to the conclusion that

Ire

is lying simply based off whatever

xyzzy

said is that they are in a SCUM PT together.

(xyzzy/Pine)

That's why they want to strongarm me into a CC off the basis of what

xyzzy

said, not what

Ire

did or claimed.

Their agenda becomes so much more apparent when they ignore the points I've made about them being scum.

~

Hypothetically, in the event that I DIDN'T actually claim Cop C14 to

xyzzy

?

They have no reason to doubt

Ire's

claim.

They're still scum.

~

I need both

Ire/Pers

to tell me to hammer, and/or not claim here.

Because I literally was about to come here and address, fully-knowing that benefits scum, because not all 3 of you can be scum.

{Pers, xyzzy, Pine}

[Taly]

Yes, Taly, I agree
Read between the lines

I want

Pers

to post so I know he's on the same page.

I'm not going anywhere right now.

[Taly]

VOTE: C14 Pine

[Taly]

yeah... i deserved losing both games... this is probably the worst performances I've done in mafia...

I just couldn't understand why neither

Pine

or

xyzzy

responded to my thoughts them. x-x

Repeating over and over that I needed to claim isn't helping me figure out where I'm wrong in my reads.

For a minute, I figured my Town Cop role was naive and invalid because I HAD an innocent on

Ire

.

But I thought with

Ire's

posting that he was crumbing Town Seer, and the Town Cop claim was to see how

Pine/xyzzy

responded.

[Taly]

i guess you can send B7 PT if

xyzzy's

ok

sorry guys x-x

[Taly]

This was also my first time as a Cop Invest role lol... even if it wasn't functional.

This was also my first time as scum where I was the last alive.

[Taly]

I kept doubting the townread I had on

xyzzy

because the original townread I had there was to try and avoid a lynch on him in B7. lol

It was the only non-genuine read I had this game. XD

Plus, I didn't get a lot of responses from

xyzzy

on what to do in the B7 game or his thoughts there... so I figured when we BOTH lost in B7, he prioritized staying alive in C14 alongside his partner

Pine

That's what was going on in my head.

I also didn't quite get the double cop on

Maki

, followed by her NK. I thought

Pine

entertaining me as scum/scum was fencesitting to find a reason to lynch me if I did claim.

[Taly]

I couldn't think of a town-motivated reason to OUT my C14 Cop Claim from our PT,

xyzzy

, prior to me actually getting into the thread and posting on C14 after the B7 hammer.

I didn't WANT to claim at all, not unless I was either L-1'd and forced to claim, or it was the next dayphase so I knew NKing me wouldn't have taken out a potentially functional cop role.

[Taly]

This game proves I'm not very good with mafia as either alignment. XD

[Taly]

This was a great game, thanks for modding

EP

I really like the concept of a 2-in-1, and playing this game was fun for a bit... but I'm not sure about doing another one of these, at least not very soon...

[Taly]

Yeah...

That's why I had a complete personality shift once we STARTED talking about C14 when I got lynched in B7...

[Taly]

Also

Nobody took my

Maki

C14 case seriously.
Or

Pine

B7 case seriously.

They were both wrong, but I was the only person making cases OUTSIDE of the D1 lynches.

So, I couldn't adjust much as scum in B7, and I had no clue what to think for C14 other than REINFORCE my "fake scumreads" there for as long as I survived in B7.

[Taly]

And if I tried so hard to avoid a

xyzzy

B7 lynch because.... if I were copped. GG.

And I thought bussing

xyzzy

was gamethrowing tbh

[Taly]

*post-game hugs*

[Taly]

I thought

Maki

was a PR too... which was why I ultimately went for her in B7 lol

And at the time, thought she just potential scum in C14.

[Taly]

My confbias weakness kicked in and I was like

"why does it matter to wait for

pers

if i cant literally see

xyzzy/Pine

as town"

[Taly]

If

xyzzy

wasn't lynched in B7, my scum-narrative-weaving abilities would have grown a lot in D2.

I was pulling for that

Pine

mislynch in B7 - since EoD1 btw - and I figured I had a good lead on suspecting

Elsa's

wagon, confident (rightfully so) that there was at least one scum on it.

[Taly]

Yeah.

I literally didn't see town-motivation in claiming pre-emptively, but when

Ire

got into the thread and told me to think a bit deeper, I thought he was crumbing Seer, and that confirmed my own false conclusions to me.

[Taly]

I'm not the smartest person to 1v1 against, even with the odds against me.

Anyway, good game overall XD The answer WAS in front of me.