Gay Dance! [Donezo]

[chennisden]

I do have reason to townread gamma tbh
But I don't like the reason

Which is...?

Since you were around I would've actually stated out the reasoning already if I wanted post it.
I'm gonna think about it a bit before I decide to post it.

Not what I was expecting tbh

[Nimueh]

nim who isnt obv town

I haven’t read anything yet beyond what I’ve said, so no clue yet.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't really care about Nim's second or third posts

The first one is the most interesting and most scummy

???

Are you on crack Chenn? I think I may have read one of your posts, where you did that self-meta thing and thought you might be town but this read is seriously whack.

This had better not be GS all over again. If you’re actually scum here, I will catch you, bank on it.

I like.

[GuyInFreezer]

Btw flower meaning for butterfly weed is "leave me"

[chennisden]

@everyone scumreading me answer this please

Why would I play this way as scum? I'm playing in a way where it's pretty much impossible for me to turn around and say "lol ACTUALLY we're gonna lynch {endgame pair} instead of

us

," and expect it to work, so that means I

can't

be the scum win-con. I.e. I'm not the strongest member in the scumteam and I'm just here to propel a deepwolf slot into endgame.

But that comes with a couple of problems. That means out of {Bitmap GiF} {Sakura Pie} there's someone I'm trying to propel to endgame because I think I've made it VERY CLEAR that's the ideal endgame. Only Sakura has said something of the sort about Pie. And let's say you think that, sure. But if I have a

stronger scum partner

I don't approach this game the way I do, looking for townreads. My job should be to get some shallow towncredit, case a slot or two as scum, get some mislynches, and cast a lot of paranoia on some locktown read and get them lynched, and then my scumpartner can be the one to call me out and get me lynched, then scum goes home for victory. Or, the easier thing is I can just not post and let my scumbuddies carry me, then just make sure I don't spew them scum.

It's very clear that's not what's happening and I dunno, I think there's no real reason for me to pretend to solve the game as scum to the degree I'm doing right now. The safer option would be to lurk, eventually get caught up in PoE, and in the process of dying spew somebody scum so town can mislynch town by themselves. Right now as scum I think I'd be really trying to push an angle on {Fb Oka} {Ausuka Vecna} {Shiro} or {Sakura Hana}. I guess you can say "wow chennis has grown some self awareness as scum" but that's not at all possible. What am I supposed to do, magically get good at scum when last time I rolled scum, I nearly (1) threw the entire game (2) spewed RC scum (3) forced the team to bus Fuscosco for towncredit and it literally took a townthrow of epic proportions to bring the game back for scum.

Why would I do this as scum? A lot of people that I can theoretically mislynch ALSO HAPPEN to be the same people preventing this town from mislynching me. Why would I line my cards up like this as scum? Whereas as town it makes a lot of sense for me to do this - it gives me reason to actually read the game and not be on the lol mislynch. I guess I could get away with this type of thing in the Newbie queue, but

it's pretty obvious the newbie queue and this game are a far cry apart.

I dunno, I kinda

expect

people to know that I'm town when (1) if I'm scum I've completely cornered myself (2) the actions I've been taking would be actively detrimental to my scumteam regardless of the strength of my partners (3) this doesn't line up with the few scumgames I've played with at all (see Mini 2070) and (4) my approach here is very similar to my non-Newbie towngames and also has some degree of similarity to my Newbie towngames.
-
Now if a deepwolf has gotten into the towncore I'd be a good mislynch to save to LyLo or something. All you have to do is say "I kinda wanna lynch chennis" and then not lynch me, and say "wow

everyone is scumreading him

" (which would be a terrible mischaracterization as well) and ask "Why haven't we lynched this guy yet? He's obviously scum" and then bam, the deepwolf brings the game home. And there have been attempts to cast paranoia on me or line me up as a mislynch. Yet my responses to this are all in good faith. If I'm scum I don't even have to pretend to sort you. I can just say "wow this guy is scum" and tunnel them a bit and let the rest of town brush me off as "shit town" with terrible reads while I just sit in the ignored corner until my scumbuddy needs some free towncredit. If I was the scum wincon I would've tried to steal Pie or Ausuka. And if I wasn't the scum wincon then my scumbuddies would tell me to shut the hell up. I haven't tried to steal Pie or Ausuka and I sure as hell haven't shut up, much to the detriment of your sanity.

I dunno. At the end of the day it's going to be obvious who we bring to endgame (Pie + GiF) but I guess it's just a pride issue about not being the shit townie who gets mislynched D1. I'm kind of sick of being scum's free mislynch that's used to win the game when it's clear or should be clear that I'm town and that's part of why I sign up for a lot of Newbie games. I've been trying to use presence-of-force this game and I don't think there's any reason I do that as scum, because no matter if my partners are weaker or stronger than me I don't play the way I do, unless you want to take the stance that there's scum in my endgame proposal. Even then that's really reachy and making a ton of invalid assumptions that lead to an invalid conclusion makes no sense.

sigh, sakura

[Nimueh]

Anyway want to save me 75 pages of reading and share your thoughts/reads?

Anyone, who you would suggest ISO in particular?

[GuyInFreezer]

Also I'll post the reasoning tomorrow.
I realized that I have to observe something a bit first.

[GuyInFreezer]

Anyway want to save me 75 pages of reading and share your thoughts/reads?

Anyone, who you would suggest ISO in particular?

Me

[chennisden]

My scum meta is

(1) half-hearted
(2) randomly tunnely
(3) very flip floppy

Whereas my town meta is

(1) jokey
(2) when I make a serious post my Alignment is Kinda Obvious
(3) I fight very hard to make sure Everyone Knows I'm Town

Like, let's talk scumgames. We have a Newbie (my first game and outdated), Mini 2070 (first relevant scumgame, though again bad), Restless Spirits (compromised by RAS, but obvious Scum was Gonna Win) and Gameshow Mafia (thanks for the carry Ig).

In ALL OF THEM, I have had (1) halfhearted/random tunnels. (2) I pushed or helped push a lot of bad stuff through and (3) I had a ton of weird reversals. I guess I'll link to the games where I fill out the checklist.

MINI 2070:
(1) viewtopic.php?p=10877022#p10877022, viewtopic.php?p=10877026#p10877026
(2) viewtopic.php?p=10868407#p10868407
(3) viewtopic.php?p=10884151#p10884151

RESTLESS SPIRITS:
(1) viewtopic.php?p=11031228#p11031228
(2) viewtopic.php?p=11031214#p11031214
(3) viewtopic.php?p=11023298#p11023298

GAMESHOW MAFIA:
(1) viewtopic.php?p=10923743#p10923743
(2) viewtopic.php?p=10898847#p10898847
(3) viewtopic.php?p=10901923#p10901923

As scum part of the difference is that I'm happy with the amount of towncredit that it takes to lead town off of a cliff. As town I'm not satisfied until the entire lobby reads me as town. I guess the exception is Grey Flag Nightless but the game was over too quick and the scum were obvious anyway. I guess I'd be like "here's a cliff now jump off of it" and then my partners just take advantage of the chaos that I cause and then easily claim town leader after they lead on me. It's what happened in Gameshow Mafia. It's what I tried to do in Mini 2070. It was unnecessary in Mini 2077 (because the scumteam already won by that point).
--
Having shallow townreads on me that scum can easily discredit only helps scum. I guess Firebringer would say something like "stop flailing and catch scum" but I don't think that's really accurate. (1) I usually demand more room than this to work with as town. (2) This is a

townhunting game.

(3) It's kinda pointless during Pre-dance anyway and (4) I did the only thing I can at this point (choosing Jingle over Croag). Like I guess you can disagree with the choice but I mean the intent is obvious.

And it's not like I'm cherrypicking examples. I literally did a 2-3 minute skim for each of those games to find that. I don't think the same is remotely applicable here.
--
Now I guess let's look at my town Meta. The most recent non-trivial non-Newbie game was Mini 2081 (at least non trivial when I replaced in).

Here's the jokey part: viewtopic.php?p=11040738#p11040738 (I guess you can look down a couple posts too for more examples)
Here's the part where I try to make the whole lobby townread me: viewtopic.php?p=11042874#p11042874

I guess my alignment wasn't Really That Obvious when I posted in that game. But I mean if you look at some of my latest Newbies I kinda do try to strongarm the entire town to townread me. As scum I think I've gotten enough towncredit to lead town off a cliff a little and do the rest of the things I usually do. I could just call Some Slot scum and be done with it, say "Oops! They were town!" and then be done with it, and then rinse and repeat as scum. I also just don't do this kinda thing as scum.
--
I think I've covered all my bases. I've pulled up examples of where my general scum play differs from this, where my general town play lines up with this, and how I'm not pushing the scum wincon. (Re: the last point. I'm either the wincon of the team but then I should've taken pie/Ausuka or I'm not the wincon of the team in which case this is pointless if not actively detrimental to my team because I can push town off a cliff already, with a bit of effort.) I don't really think general discredits should be given any merit like "oh but he's flailing." ANd I guess Post 1440 really encompasses everything wrong with the mentality of "well you could do something

else

." No I really can't. If I'm not trying to endgame I need to push an agenda and set up my partners to endgame. The cognitive dissonance is when you think "chennis is def scum pushing an agenda" then you think "but I'ma be ok with the agenda or variants to what he's pushing" AND think that "Look at this agenda that he definitely needs to push." (Hint: I don't need to push it.) I guess if you could come up with some specific stuff that's bothering you I could address it better.
--
I guess scumreading wise I might be a bit lost but I don't think you're much better off if you're still scumreading me despite (1) me being quite transparently town and (2) you having nowhere to go regardless of what I flip. So Firebringer I think it's a bit hypocritical of you to tell me "stop whining and get some reads" when the only one you have is completely terrible. You're thinking "oh Pie might be his partner" but that's a deluded solve and it's contributing needless and wrong paranoia on her slot as well. Me doing these things is kinda risking her endgame status so unless you think we're conspiring with our third scumbuddy in GiF/Bitmap to endgame it really doesn't make sense either. And if you think the scumteam is Chennis/Pie/{GiF/Bitmap} then you should take the tinfoil hat off. Is Chennis/Pie/{GiF/Bitmap} the hill you want to die on? Or do you want to reconsider your reads on Chennis/Pie?
--
As town, I care about being townread a lot. I think it's kind of obvious by my recent games especially this one, where I pushed almost exclusively myself as town. The only real scumread I had was wrong and tunnel-y and I broke out of it eventually. Really my towngame is just obvtowning, pushing to get the room I need, and making a couple of good choices that win the game for town. I think one of the most important things as town is not getting mislynched and that's why recently a lot of people have been able to locktown me easily, especially with my distinctive towngame and my less-than-adequate scumgame. I think it's really telling that some people are determined to tunnel me without even attempting to reconsider. GiF has asked a few of you to read Mini 2070 and from the looks of it you clearly haven't. Either you're scum or just approaching my slot in really terrible faith. Please stop.
--
This is the hardest I've towntelled in a while and a lot of people are willing to locktown me for a lot less. Maybe try casting the tinfoil aside?

I guess in summary,

are we still talking like chenn isn't obvtown

and this.

[chennisden]

GiF with the memes

[Nimueh]

Btw flower meaning for butterfly weed is "leave me"

Oh, then that wasn’t a good selection then.

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh btw Nimueh I'm the one of 3 people who scumread Kirana.

[Sakura Hana]

You could start by double ISOing me and Chenn.

[GuyInFreezer]

GiF with the memes

It's no meme.
I want him to sort me first.

[chennisden]

Pie Bitmap Freezer

[OkaPoka]

Anyway want to save me 75 pages of reading and share your thoughts/reads?

Anyone, who you would suggest ISO in particular?

something like

bitmap
chennis
ank
pie

would be my most important 4 isos for u to read

[chennisden]

Btw flower meaning for butterfly weed is "leave me"

This is the memeeeee

[Sakura Hana]

Also shouldnt gamma wait to accept at least until Nimueh is caught up? that way we dont use portion of the first dance's deadline while she does.
Unless she doesnt mind.

[GuyInFreezer]

Btw whoever telling him to iso chen
Y'all are all monsters

[GuyInFreezer]

Chen ISO is probably the most cringiest ISO in this game

[chennisden]

Btw whoever telling him to iso chen
Y'all are all monsters

300 posts, not that bad

[chennisden]

Chen ISO is probably the most cringiest ISO in this game

no u

[chennisden]

Cringiest town - GiF

[OkaPoka]

wanna do a "fake night"

where anyone >100 posts doesnt post for 24 hrs

[Sakura Hana]

wanna do a "fake night"

where anyone >100 posts doesnt post for 24 hrs

no thx, that's why i dont join geriatric posting games.