Mini Theme 2094 : Undertale Semi-Open: Game over!

[Elements]

I don't believe you. @mod could we have a player list please?

[Elements]

morning

It's afternoon where I am. A more chronologically neutral getting would be "Time of day"

[Elements]

Much, now it can be read absent of time

[Elements]

HEAL: Something_Smart
It's always good to have something smart locked away for a troublesome day

[Elements]

I was thinking we spare the biggest town read each day

[Elements]

How would claiming help the game at all?

I don't see how claiming helps. If there is a claim we can spare them but their ability won't mean anything and we lose the advantage of their existence in the first place

[Elements]

^ I was agreeing with you oversoul

[Elements]

meh im not opposed to genocide either and just playing this like a regular mafia game

Genocide becomes a normal mafia game with potentially no form of power roles. Sparing is where we get pseudo checks from and can narrow down scum from

[Elements]

meh im not opposed to genocide either and just playing this like a regular mafia game

Genocide becomes a normal mafia game with potentially no form of power roles. Sparing is where we get pseudo checks from and can narrow down scum from

That was horrible grammar I apologise, I'm currently on a tram

[Elements]

Worst case we lynch wrong and lynch scum tomorrow.

WORST CASE. That's terrible for scum btw.

PRs should claim D1 and w/o counterclaim we spare.

Don't scum just kill the pr claim night 1?

[Elements]

idk if elements is town or just good at mafia.

Why not both?

[Elements]

Pacifict route wee have a confirmed town and 3 people one of which is mafia. They have all the interactions in the spared PT to look at and all the normal topic interaction up to the point of sparing. Whomever the first and second spared are should make sure they're talking with each other and the new sparies as the join to formulate reads ect

[Elements]

I believe he meant "good at scum."

I considered that being the meaning but the word "as" would've been much more apt. Or the word scum in place of mafia which would more heavily imply good as scum rather than good at the game we are playing called mafia

[Elements]

I believe he meant "good at scum."

I considered that being the meaning but the word "as" would've been much more apt. Or the word scum in place of mafia which would more heavily imply good as scum rather than good at the game we are playing called mafia

I'm a pedant

[Elements]

i might be fine with just sparing elements and calling it a day tbh

so spare me/elements then PR claims then we spare PR

Idk correct play at this point seems like D1 - Spare chennis D2 - PR outs and gets spared and D3 - idk

any of these sound good to me. The latter probably. I imagine you'd be night killed if you're not spared today, and you can start the "interrogation" of whomever joins you after the PR - I'd imagine pretty well.

[Elements]

Much more so than Elements at least.

Do you not like me DEB?

[Elements]

HEAL: Chenni
Move that off SS

[Elements]

With the Pacifist route scum can only win when the core is reached if both scum are among the four or five players that are spared.

[Elements]

With the Pacifist route scum can only win when the core is reached if both scum are among the four or five players that are spared.

did it again, I meant to write this:
the pacifist core scum only win *instantly* if they are both spared, it's still possible for them to win if there's only one scum in the original 4 spared

[Elements]

you could just do it, get a response then stop

[Elements]

Now that I’ve locked Chennis in the shadow realm I think he is scum and strongly advocate that we reach the core at neutral stage

Are you advocating for the neutral route purely on the bases of Chennis being scum, or do you have other reasons for wanting it?

[Elements]

Do you have any views on which route you would prefer?

[Elements]

Do you have any views on which route you would prefer?

Obviously you have views, I mean what are they

[Elements]

Now that I’ve locked Chennis in the shadow realm I think he is scum and strongly advocate that we reach the core at neutral stage

If you think he's scum, who do you think his partner is?

[Elements]

Who would you want spared after you ss?

[Elements]

Yeah I dont think SS is town here

Because you think he's scum with chennis or because you think he's scum trying to worm their way into the spared camp?

[Elements]

I think I'm a better early spare because I can make my alignment known really quickly.

How can you do this without claiming PR? or was that a soft claim I've just busted right open?

[Elements]

If we spare Elements today, kill me tomorrow, and Oversoul D4 we hit the neutral core with one mafia and four town dead

That makes it 5v1, then assuming Elements and chennis are both town they get peeked clear and one of them is nightkilled, putting us in 4v1 with a clear

If Elements/chennis has a scum then it’s 3v1 with 2 clears

I like those odds either way

The maths checks out and I think chennis is town which would give the 4v1 with a clear. That sounds good to me.
HEAL: Elements

[Elements]

I love discussing mechanics

Mechanics are great to run numbers through. Especially unusual ones like this setup.

[Elements]

I am sad that Gamma died though. I would have liked to spare him down the road.

I would also like that we Kill 2 players to finish out the game Core mechanic

How do these fit together? Would you have advocated 3 spares if gamma was still alive? If so why?

[Elements]

I am so confused.
HEAL: Chemist

[Elements]

Oversoul, what did you get out of that gambit?

I think the answer is nothing...?

[Elements]

I can't see any point in that play as town or mafia.
Mafia Oversoul claims PR, Chemist PR claims including the maths of the game end, Mafia Oversoul realises it was a terrible mistake and backs out claiming it was a gambit.
Town Oversoul claims PR, Chemist PR claims, Town Oversoul backs down confirming Chemist.

All it seems to have done is confirm the PR when oversoul wanted rather than when the PR wanted

[Elements]

The only way I think Chennis is scum is if SS is their partner.

[Elements]

The only way I think Chennis is scum is if SS is their partner.

That's a bit of a weird logic leap, considering I didn't push to spare him so quickly and he didn't suggest to spare me either.

I town read Chennis right. The only conceivable way I think they could be scum is if you are their partner and are trying to get a quick win from both being spared. Chennis scum implies SS scum. I don't think this is the case.

[Elements]

I can see SS being scum seeing chennis petitioning for his own spare and trying to do something similar today. SS and Oversoul are not a scum pair.

[Elements]

Because he assumes that scum-chennis/town-S_S is impossible and I don't follow why.

I don't assume it's impossible. I think Chennis is town. If I am wrong about this I think his most likely scum partner is you in the same way adorable thinks it is volxen

[Elements]

I can see SS being scum seeing chennis petitioning for his own spare and trying to do something similar today. SS and Oversoul are not a scum pair.

Bruh I was the first one to try to self-spare. Look at my first post

Yes that was your first post. After that, however, you didn't mention anything about you being spared until the start of day 2 at which point you were actively asking to be spared and giving reason for why you'd be the best spare option.

[Elements]

e I can make my alignment known really quickly

Can you do this now?

[Elements]

I agree with your town read on Adorable, I'll have to go back and look at DDL

[Elements]

How do you feel about my townreads on DDL and Adorable?

Don't rlly see the DDL read. He doesn't seem scummy but I don't see a town read. I don't like 302.

[Elements]

My revelation is that Chemist is able to use his PR from the spare room. Unfortunately, my master plan of trapping scum Chennis means if he is the last scum, he can still kill from the spare room

"When a player is spared they are temporarily removed from the game"
So I'm going to go with, you're wrong here

[Elements]

You very much

oversouled

the size of your revelation

[Elements]

I clarified with her before making any revelation posts by the way

Huh

[Elements]

I think she got trapped because if mafia couldn’t act in the spare room, it could be game over by Day 2. So if mafia can act in the spare room it’s only fair for a pr to act in the spare room. This is all my conjecture though. We can ask her at the end of the game thoigh

I mean, the game could be over day 2 anyway in a multitude of scenarios

[Elements]

I don't see how that would change much, if anything if that were the case

[Elements]

I don't see how that would change much, if anything

[Elements]

@mod does the PR know if their heal saves someone?

[Elements]

It could potentially conftown an additional player if we go the Neutral route.

So it potentially makes sense to go neutral if there is a night with no kills. Then chem can tell chennis who was healed in the spared PT so chennis can relay that information to us upon chemists death.

[Elements]

Here's a read list for people to comment on seeing as nothing's happening

Town Read:
Chemist
Adorable
Chennis

Null:
Volxen
flippynips
DEB
DDL

Scum - I think it's likely one of these is scum but not both
SS
Oversoul

[Elements]

You people are clearly not reading the game if you think I’m scum.

I still don't understand your PR claim

[Elements]

I think I have my town and scums so I am ready for the game to go to night.

Care to divulge us?

[Elements]

You've both been too out of kilter to be mafia together

[Elements]

I mean I think my play makes no sense as scum, but people are afraid of what they don’t know/don’t understand

It makes no sense as scum. I don't think it makes sense as town either

[Elements]

you say you were preventing a scum CC right. If there was a scum CC that would be a 1 for 1 trade which I'm pretty sure is always in towns interest.

[Elements]

you say you were preventing a scum CC right. If there was a scum CC that would be a 1 for 1 trade which I'm pretty sure is always in towns interest.

Actually it's worse for scum then a 1 for 1 because we could get scum on the first lynch.

[Elements]

you say you were preventing a scum CC right. If there was a scum CC that would be a 1 for 1 trade which I'm pretty sure is always in towns interest.

The thing is a scum CC loses the PR for us, so it’s really 2 for 1 and we would have had to go to Neutral instantly

The PR gets killed night 4 either way

I thought you wanted the neutral route?

[Elements]

I want the Neutral route under very specific circumstances.

That Chennis is scum and we can 100% hit scum in two lynches?

Yes, PR gets killed N4 as opposed to getting killed Day 2 without being able to influence anything.

killed day 2 without influence implies a scum CC which I think is unlikely.

Is this you saying that you think chennis is scum?

Either way being neutral route or pacifist route where a scum has been spared. Plan for the worst hope for the best.

[Elements]

Where are all of these Adorable town reads coming from?

She's looking at peoples actions from multiple angles and suggesting potential strategies.

[Elements]

Ok. I am ready for day to end, I think I have all the info I need.

Make sure you get your reads in Chemist

Are you actually not going to tell us your reads?

[Elements]

...

[Elements]

Elements, what have I done that you think I'd be less likely to do as town, and why do you think that?

Your switch from one post saying to spare you day one, to emulating aspects of chennis and properly petitioning for your spare day two. Your "i can sort chennis" reason seems arbitrary in retrospect as most of us town read chennis pretty strongly hence him being the first spared. It feels like it was more meant to appease oversoul who was the only one not town reading chennis.

[Elements]

It just doesn't seem like a town motivated thing. As a town we want the most town-read people spared you weren't particularly town read and still put yourself forward as a spare option spreading the votes.

[Elements]

Correct

and you wonder why people don't town read you

[Elements]

Oversoul, I still don't see why you couldn't have told us your thoughts yesterday

[Elements]

Also, if we lynching SS today what do we do tomorrow? Just spare a random person?

[Elements]

Oversoul, why is Chennis scum again?

[Elements]

I still think we should go for the pacifist route. I think Chennis is town so we can still win via said route. I agree that SS is scum, that just means we don't spare them. This route should only really be aborted if there are no consensus town reads left to spare.

[Elements]

Why do you think chenn is town tho?

Train of thought style of posting. Looking for the route that will be hardest for scum ie being the strongest town reads. Explaining why different scenarios are better or worse than others. Retrospectively updating his views as they changed. His very high activity constantly pushing the game forwards.

[Elements]

Also gotta re-read how we win its a little confusing

Spare 4 town = win
Lynch all scum = win

[Elements]

@element— what do you think of something smart?

Most likely scum, definitely not being spared.

HEAL: Elements

[Elements]

For tomorrow my spare preference order would be:
Adorable
Volxen
Flippynips
Oversoul
DEB
SS

[Elements]

Your two positions are close. Volxen is higher because his posts have more substance

[Elements]

I've posted my spare list and am ready to ascend...

[Elements]

You can fight me postgame elements but the objectively correct solve is

adorable/oversoul

God speed, friend. I think Adorable into Chennis does it

This is why I don't think adorable/OS works. Oversoul's last act is telling us to lynch his scum partner?

[Elements]

Whereas Volxen's last act would be sparing his scum partner.

[Elements]

Oversoul's last act is telling us to lynch his scum partner?

Volxen's last act would be sparing his scum partner.

Poetically polar opposites

[Elements]

I read the game wrong and am a dumbass

What did you read wrong?

[Elements]

VOTE: adorable

On day 2 Elements town reads me and he puts DDL on the null list, DDL doubts Elements being town and then he gets killed. Elements killing DDL makes more sense since as scum, he would want to keep the players alive who have been town reading him so that they can spare him. Scum Adorable would have kept DDL alive since he town read me and I would use him to spare me.

DDL is 80% that I am town. That is a big percentage. He would still have been on my wagon if he was alive. End of day 2 I'm the most town read player - hence being spared day three - so scum!adorable assumes Chemist is going to heal me again as he said he did night 1 therefore going for the next most town read player and her only real competition for the 4th spare, DDL.

Elements seems to just be going with the flow on what chennis is saying and agreeing with him.

That's because I agree with him...

I'm not dumb enough to make it obvious on volxen or oversoul being my scum buddy for sparing me like that and scum knew I was protected on N3 since Chemist said in the spare chat he protected me on N3. I'm pretty sure scum spared me so that they can use me as mislynch bait and it would be good game for scum since they will win when I get mislynched.

Scum don't kill you night 3 because you are scum.

[Elements]

Adorable calling volxen a possible chennis partner looks so weird for a Adorable/volxen team.

When/where was this?

[Elements]

elements you have never rolled scum right?

Nope, never

[Elements]

I still find this convenient how Elements post on day 2 looked like he was fishing for the pr and then Oversoul fake claims afterwards. On day 4 Oversoul wanted to spare himself but I refused to spare him because I did not town read him and it looked like he gave up on trying to spare himself and he ended up sparing me to make me look like his scum buddy so that I could get mislynched when it's just the spare players alive

Surely in this scenario I propose an adorable/OS scum team? How does OS' last post fit in here?

On the spare chat Chemist was saying why was Oversoul asking about a double lynch and that was suspicious because it looked like Oversoul could be scum who wanted to make sure there was only 1 lynch and not 2 lynch. It looked like me getting spared was a setup.

I don't understand this bit.

[Elements]

I've already explained on #734 why I suspect Elements/Oversoul as the scum team and now moving onto DEB who is also a suspect.

#155 DEB said he's okay sparing chennis.
#156 he said much more so than Elements.
Notice how no one town read Elements at the time except for OS who town read him on the first page.

Chennis is also town reading me at this point

#162 Elements responds back to DEB saying "Do you not like be DEB?"
#164 All DEB says is idk rn.
#169 Elements votes chennis

What does me voting chennis have to do with anything?

#566 DEB hammers Elements

Surely DEB as my scum partner doesn't hammer me and waits for volxen to do thus not drawing unwanted attention.

#580 I don't like this response DEB gave to SS and it looked like he knew something about the killing.

The interaction between Elements and DEB looked like scum buddies talking to each other.

I can see Elements/OS and Elements/DEB. OS and DEB were not getting town read and it looked like they didn't stand a chance on getting spared so the only way for Elements/OS or Elements/DEB to win is for scum Elements to try to get me lynched when it's just the spared players alive.

By our interactions you mean 156, 162, 164. Any others?

Elements post I quoted earlier looked like he was fishing for the pr which was suspicious.

How many times are you going to say this?

[Elements]

Chennis and SS:

1 - Why am I town?
2 - Why am I scum?
3 - Why is Adorable town?
4 - Why is Adorable scum?

[Elements]

Woo, gg
I am so impatient

[Elements]

The number of times I wrote posts saying something of the ilk: you scum read her and town read me, just vote her already

[Elements]

Thanks for a great game everyone especially you Pops!

[Elements]

I donot think my best friend elements is scum because if he was i would die

Sorry!
If it's any consolation this post made me feel bad.

[Elements]

What was Alphys going to do?

[Elements]

The first one

[Elements]

Oh yea I'm fine with our PT to be public, didn't realise that was a thing we had to give permission for

[Elements]

GG scums

GG indeed

[Elements]

When DDL was killed over Elements that made me question elements but I didn’t have any time to react to that

After chemist said he healed me night 1 I that would detract from me being scum by not dying

[Elements]

wow i cannot type with one hand

[Elements]

Muffet bossfight. It's not close.

Controversial opinion: ghost fight > spider dance.

I'd have to go with battle against a true Hero which is also my favorite boss fight

[Elements]

which post was that?

[Elements]

Thanks