Mini 581 - Andy's Death - Over

[JDodge]

Grimmy is confirmed by lack of counter-claim. This leaves a suspect pool (to me) of Shea, gob and Seth.

gob is best connected to Seth, although his silence on Dave/Shea is odd.

Dave/Shea is unlinkable to me.

Seth is best connected to gob, although his silence on Dave/Shea is odd.

I am most inclined to believe gob/Seth is the scumpair. I would like to ask everyone else for their input.

This is the post, Jdodge. You note everyones connections, and specifically how they are not best connected to you.

Yes. I do. However, I meant that in that I

find

you unlinkable to anyone else. I have not gone through and try to see how people could be connected to myself as that defeats the purpose of trying to connect people to each other in order to find a logical scumpair, as I

personally

know that I am not scum. And the fact that Seth and gob are linkable is my case against Seth in its entirety. Gob, I find it strange when you are asking for a case against Seth but not against you; why is this?

[Thestatusquo]

Oh, I see. I missread your post completely. I could probably buy gob as well, but I think that looking for partners today is kind of fruitless. You're my number one choice, and gob would probably be a second.

[goborage]

You still haven't posted the case against Seth, even though you promised it several weeks ago. You actually said you found Seth scummy D1 so I don't see how you can say that your read on him is purely associative.

And if we are scum-partners what precisely links us together?

Anyways I've dismissed a Seth/JD pairing. Seth placed an L-1 vote yesterday on JD which I seriously doubt he'd do if he were his partner. TSQ I imagine would be more savvy as scum and I believe that he is distancing himself from JD by pretending to vote for him.

That leaves JD/TSQ and Seth/TSQ.

I'm leaning towards JD/TSQ seeing as how I doubt Seth would bus if he were scum. There were some antagonistic posts between Seth and Dave D1 that seemed genuine to me.

So I'm planning on voting for TSQ.

I am going to assume that gob will likely vote and/or FoS me as soon as he gets on, so let me save you the time by asking what links me to Sethaniel and/or Shea before you lose this game for us.

Does this quote sound as if JD knows info about me that he shouldn't? "before you lose the game for us" sounds like "before you make a mistake". If I were scum how could I make a mistake? I think that JD knows I'm town (because he's scum) and is trying to make me second-guess myself.

I have decided that gob is likely town and Seth is almost certainly town.

Haha so what happened between then and now? D1 Seth was scummy, D2 he's town, D3 he's scum again.

Dave is a little tougher to nail. He hardly posted D1 and TSQ is refusing to post anything more than the bare minimum.

As to linking JD with Dave - I noticed that there was very little interaction between the two D1. Dave put a random vote on JD. When asked about their scum-rankings both place each other somewhere in the middle (Posts 140 & 175). What I find interesting is that pretty much everyone except for JD (and Jenter for obv reasons) calls Dave out for lurking or some other anti-town move. JD is silent about matters revolving Dave. Why is that? It's the lack of interaction between the two that I find suspicious.

[Thestatusquo]

Wtf? I basically nailed the SK yesterday... How exactly am I refusing to post more than the bare minimum...

[goborage]

I'm talking about today.

[Thestatusquo]

If you'll notice, I went through a period of inactivity at exactly the same time in every single game I was in. I even accidentally got replaced in one.

I highly doubt that I orchestrated that just so I could avoid posting in this game, especially when there was little to know pressure on me.

[goborage]

OK fine, then there's nothing stopping you now. Any particular reason why you think JD and/or I are scum?

[JDodge]

I am going to assume that gob will likely vote and/or FoS me as soon as he gets on, so let me save you the time by asking what links me to Sethaniel and/or Shea before you lose this game for us.

Does this quote sound as if JD knows info about me that he shouldn't? "before you lose the game for us" sounds like "before you make a mistake". If I were scum how could I make a mistake? I think that JD knows I'm town (because he's scum) and is trying to make me second-guess myself.

I think that I'm trying to save myself the hassle of dealing with this bullshit today, and I think that anyone on the pro-town level would realize that the game essentially would end if we lynched a townie yesterday.

I have decided that gob is likely town and Seth is almost certainly town.

Haha so what happened between then and now? D1 Seth was scummy, D2 he's town, D3 he's scum again.

Times change. People post. If you expect people's opinions to remain static despite deaths, etc. and then call them

changing

said opinions scummy, you're going to end up leading a lynch on town more often than not.

Dave is a little tougher to nail. He hardly posted D1 and TSQ is refusing to post anything more than the bare minimum.

If Shea's only posting the bare minimum, then Grimmy's and Seth's activity levels are completely unacceptable. Why aren't you on their cases about that?

As to linking JD with Dave - I noticed that there was very little interaction between the two D1. Dave put a random vote on JD. When asked about their scum-rankings both place each other somewhere in the middle (Posts 140 & 175). What I find interesting is that pretty much everyone except for JD (and Jenter for obv reasons) calls Dave out for lurking or some other anti-town move. JD is silent about matters revolving Dave. Why is that? It's the lack of interaction between the two that I find suspicious.

Yes. I found Dave middling and unreadable. Therefore, I admit that I have pretty much ignored Dave. So your entire case against me is:

1. A quote taken out of context used by me to help keep the town from mislynching (as, from my perspective knowing that I am protown, lynching me would have pretty near doomed us unless Ythill killed scum)
2. Me changing my mind over the span of 3 days.
3. Me ignoring someone whom I had no opinion on and did not plan on creating an opinion on.

[goborage]

If Shea's only posting the bare minimum, then Grimmy's and Seth's activity levels are completely unacceptable. Why aren't you on their cases about that?

I am. Read the posts on the previous page.

I think that I'm trying to save myself the hassle of dealing with this bullshit today, and I think that anyone on the pro-town level would realize that the game essentially would end if we lynched a townie yesterday.

A quote taken out of context used by me to help keep the town from mislynching

The post was made at the start of Day 3 - AFTER Ythill's lynch. The fact that you don't know the context of the post makes me uneasy. I guess scum don't need to keep up with the game; they already know everything there is to know right?

Your post was a preemptive strike against me because I already discussed my pairing scenarios D2. If your intention really was to "help keep the town from mislynching" then why is the quote directed at me? And why does it sound like you're identifying me as town?

Me changing my mind over the span of 3 days.

Sounds like scum trying to justify throwing out accusations whenever it's convenient. What would help convince me is a reference to specific posts where Seth's alignment changes from town to scum and vice-versa

Yes. I found Dave middling and unreadable. Therefore, I admit that I have pretty much ignored Dave.

Me ignoring someone whom I had no opinion on and did not plan on creating an opinion on.

Do not like. Why didn't you direct any questions towards him?

After finding Ythill your attention to this game has really dropped. I'd say you were on the ball D1 and D2 but D3 it seems like you've stopped trying. I can only speculate that this is because you already have all the info.

So what's your case against me and Seth?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm pretty sure we're just going round in circles, and I'm pretty sure I'm ready to vote for JD soon. It would be great if we could get some consensus here and actually have some people posting besides us three.

[goborage]

Attempt # 2 - @ TSQ: Any particular reason why you think JD and/or I are scum?

[JDodge]

If Shea's only posting the bare minimum, then Grimmy's and Seth's activity levels are completely unacceptable. Why aren't you on their cases about that?

I am. Read the posts on the previous page.

Then why is this enough to condemn Shea and not Seth?

I think that I'm trying to save myself the hassle of dealing with this bullshit today, and I think that anyone on the pro-town level would realize that the game essentially would end if we lynched a townie yesterday.

A quote taken out of context used by me to help keep the town from mislynching

The post was made at the start of Day 3 - AFTER Ythill's lynch. The fact that you don't know the context of the post makes me uneasy. I guess scum don't need to keep up with the game; they already know everything there is to know right?

This changes things... how?

Context is still missing. Timing is irrelevant - we would have lost if we'd lynched a townie yesterday and we do lose if we lynch a townie today.

Your post was a preemptive strike against me because I already discussed my pairing scenarios D2. If your intention really was to "help keep the town from mislynching" then why is the quote directed at me? And why does it sound like you're identifying me as town?

My post was saving us the trouble of playing screw-around for the next 5 days as we post about meaningless and useless trumped-up bullshit whilst you spend your time continuing to go on a one-man crusade to completely and utterly paint me as scum while not actually voting. So now I'm calling you on it - if you're so convinced, vote on it. Stop pussy-footing around and do it. Granted it makes no sense considering

both the scenarios you mentioned earlier contain Shea as a common denominator

, but whatever floats your boat.

You're taking every single thing I say and nitpicking on the semantics of the argument as well as taking the specifics, removing them from the context of the larger whole which

is required for the case to make any sense at all

so that it better suits your arguments.

Me changing my mind over the span of 3 days.

Sounds like scum trying to justify throwing out accusations whenever it's convenient. What would help convince me is a reference to specific posts where Seth's alignment changes from town to scum and vice-versa

I could, but that would require me remembering what my exact frame of mind was betwixt each post that I made regarding Seth. Note also (and I will add this) that my opinion of Seth changed back to scum

after a reread searching for connections

. I believe I noted that, but you may have ever-so-conveniently left it out way back when.

Yes. I found Dave middling and unreadable. Therefore, I admit that I have pretty much ignored Dave.

Me ignoring someone whom I had no opinion on and did not plan on creating an opinion on.

Do not like. Why didn't you direct any questions towards him?

Because I wanted Ythill lynched and didn't want to distract from that.

After finding Ythill your attention to this game has really dropped. I'd say you were on the ball D1 and D2 but D3 it seems like you've stopped trying. I can only speculate that this is because you already have all the info.

Site-wide inactivity - research before finger-pointing please

So what's your case against me and Seth?

My case against Seth is that I can connect him to you. My case against you is that you can be connected to Seth and now your half-assed offensive (which I can tell Shea is loving from the sidelines; gob-Shea connection possible), which makes me have no regrets as I

vote: goborage

. Please die post-haste.

[JDodge]

Wtf? I basically nailed the SK yesterday... How exactly am I refusing to post more than the bare minimum...

It's also worth noting that I nailed the SK on

day fucking one

and nobody listened. If you're town, stop taking the credit for my actions. If you're scum, stop being disingenuous and taking the credit for my actions.

[goborage]

If Shea's only posting the bare minimum, then Grimmy's and Seth's activity levels are completely unacceptable. Why aren't you on their cases about that?

I am. Read the posts on the previous page.

Then why is this enough to condemn Shea and not Seth?

I'm condemning both equally. TSQ just happens to be around so I threw it in his face again so he'd reply. Once Seth starts posting again he'll get it too.

Your post was a preemptive strike against me because I already discussed my pairing scenarios D2. If your intention really was to "help keep the town from mislynching" then why is the quote directed at me? And why does it sound like you're identifying me as town?

My post was saving us the trouble of playing screw-around for the next 5 days as we post about meaningless and useless trumped-up bullshit whilst you spend your time continuing to go on a one-man crusade to completely and utterly paint me as scum while not actually voting. So now I'm calling you on it - if you're so convinced, vote on it. Stop pussy-footing around and do it. Granted it makes no sense considering

both the scenarios you mentioned earlier contain Shea as a common denominator

, but whatever floats your boat.

While you may not like posting, I do, and I'm sure the other townies do as well. These posts aren't meaningless, why would you suggest they are? Sounds like scum trying to hush up town. Less conversation = good for you right?

I actually was planning on voting TSQ although you are pressuring me to do it sooner than I'd like. I was leaning towards you being TSQ's partner earlier and I'm not any less convinced.

Vote: TSQ

Expect a vote from me D4.

Me changing my mind over the span of 3 days.

Sounds like scum trying to justify throwing out accusations whenever it's convenient. What would help convince me is a reference to specific posts where Seth's alignment changes from town to scum and vice-versa

I could, but that would require me remembering what my exact frame of mind was betwixt each post that I made regarding Seth. Note also (and I will add this) that my opinion of Seth changed back to scum

after a reread searching for connections

. I believe I noted that, but you may have ever-so-conveniently left it out way back when.

So essentially you are suspicious of Seth, but are unable (I think unwilling is more likely) to explain exactly why. Again this is far too convenient. I'm trying to measure the level of honesty behind your actions but you are giving me and town very little to work with.

Yes. I found Dave middling and unreadable. Therefore, I admit that I have pretty much ignored Dave.

Me ignoring someone whom I had no opinion on and did not plan on creating an opinion on.

Do not like. Why didn't you direct any questions towards him?

Because I wanted Ythill lynched and didn't want to distract from that.

I'm talking about D1.

So what's your case against me and Seth?

My case against Seth is that I can connect him to you. My case against you is that you can be connected to Seth and now your half-assed offensive (which I can tell Shea is loving from the sidelines; gob-Shea connection possible), which makes me have no regrets as I

vote: goborage

. Please die post-haste.

If anybody's case is half-assed it yours. It's incredibly vague and has no meat behind it beyond "you're scummy 'cause I said so."

Again I ask you where is this connection between me and Dave? A specific post would be nice.

[Thestatusquo]

Wtf? I basically nailed the SK yesterday... How exactly am I refusing to post more than the bare minimum...

It's also worth noting that I nailed the SK on

day fucking one

and nobody listened. If you're town, stop taking the credit for my actions. If you're scum, stop being disingenuous and taking the credit for my actions.

It's also worth noting that a) my reasons were completely different from yours and therefore can not be attributed to you, but also more importantly b) my comment was very clearly directly in response to him claiming I didn't do enough for the game. So if you're town stop being so defensive of you "accomplishments" and if you're scum stop poisoning my well and get lynched already.

[Thestatusquo]

Gorborage, I'm not answering you deliberately because I feel like it's the only bargaining chip I have to get you to explain why exactly you are voting me and not JD? Your whole today has been attacking JD as being scum with very sparse allusions to me, and considering JD is the one I am going after, and a bus makes zero sense in this situation (pretty much ruling out a me and JD team), I am wondering why you are voting for me and not him.

In a sense, why, in your mind, am I the one who is more likely to be scum than jdodge, and why dear god why do you think a me and jdodge scum team makes any sort of sense?

[goborage]

Just covering my bases. I could very well be wrong about JD but I've convinced myself that I can't be wrong about you. And as long as I hit a scum today, town can't lose. Tomorrow, I lynch either JD or Seth. If one turns up town the other is scum.

My decision is based on the theory that Seth wouldn't L-1 his partner, therefore no Seth + JD combo. From there it's simple elimination.

What do you think? Do you think Seth would L-1 his partner?

[Thestatusquo]

Its more likely than entering the game and attacking his partner all out and then saying he's who he wants to swing at lylo.

Also, you didn't answer me why you feel you "can't be wrong" about me. I can't defend against something you've "convinced yourself" of, if you don't tell me what convinced you.

[Sethaniel]

I have a shitload of crap to deal with at work, and I am leaving for a day of jury duty in ten minutes, so I will just go ahead and

vote: goborage

even though we're in lylo, I think it's okay, because gob won't vote himself, grimmy hasn't been on recently, tsq already said he's going after jd, and I think jd is almost certainly town.

I have said gob is scum from the start, and I see nothing to change my mind.

His defense is just a repetition of "well then link me to a partner, and if you can't then I must not be scum."

Hopefully I will get more time to post tonight.

[goborage]

From the start? D1? Even if you can't link me to a partner what precisely makes me scum? Because you agree with Ythill? At least post a case (if you have one), you're not just throwing a vote out, you're trying to convince Grimmy.

@ TSQ: I've explained. It's based on Seth not being partners with JD. That leaves TSQ + JD or TSQ + Seth. You're the common element. If you want to argue against me, you'd have to convince me that Seth could be JD's partner.

[Thestatusquo]

Thats fair enough, but I don't think seth is scum, I think you and JD are scum, which leaves me the option of just sitting here and taking the vote as a man.

I would point out that linking is a poor substitute for actual scummy behavior, and as I've already said, JD is a good enough player that he would not be obviously linked to someone as scum, but thats just a catchall argument. Your vote on seth, from a town standpoint, is not better than your vote on me, in my eyes, as both he and I are town.

[goborage]

OK you've won me over TSQ. The fact that you didn't end the game right there convinces me that you're town. It's JD & Seth.

Unvote, Vote: JD

[goborage]

If you think JD is scum please put the vote on him. Then we'll let Grimmy decide.

[JDodge]

OK you've won me over TSQ. The fact that you didn't end the game right there convinces me that you're town. It's JD & Seth.

Unvote, Vote: JD

Unless he's scum with me. But I think you already want to paint Shea as town and me as scum, so I'd say it's now more likely you + Shea.

[goborage]

If he was scum with you he'd vote me and end the game.