Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Hectic]

Are you still extremely confident krazy is town?

Less since reading that game but he does sound way more genuine in this one but I need him to answer my question about that post I referenced and what makes your reads’ posts different here. I cant even tr the anger because he did that there too, so all I’ve got basically is he sounds a lot more genuine here and isn’t being a lamisty tryhard.

Do you have any negative history with Krazy? I know he mentioned blacklisting FF in that game and I know for a fact, he was legit pissed at him in LNT?

This is a super important question. I’ll tell you why once you’ve answered it.

This is what that was in reply to.

[Hectic]

Maths can be fun though. Combinatorics especially.

[Hectic]

Maths can be fun though. Combinatorics especially.

Chess > Math

This, I can agree to. Danish Gambit.

[Hectic]

Who the fuck is Eddie?

Do you mean this in you haven't played with him before, or you've barely seen him this game?

[Hectic]

We should play sometime.

Sounds good, I'll show you the ways of sacrificing ALL the pawns.

[Hectic]

We should play sometime.

Sounds good, I'll show you the ways of sacrificing ALL the pawns.

But then you can’t replace your queen if it gets taken? Or you’re trolling here.

An extra queen would only take up board space and get in my way. 3 Knights are all I need to win. (you'll let me sneak an extra one in, right?)

-Hectic

[Hectic]

https://lichess.org/@/piskop

Is that better than chess.com?

[Hectic]

Pops keeps attacking/shading people who have potential to defend her, and aren't on her wagon. She did it earlier with me when talking about how my wagon could be a town-driven scumwagon, right after I'd made some posts defending her. And now she's attacking Bob when she's probably aware that Bob has a tendency to OMGUS, and scum!her really can't afford to do that right now. I think this flips town.

[Hectic]

Do pops and bob have experience with one another?

Not sure. Was kinda assuming most people know Bob with the way everyone's talking about him.
@Pops: Have you played with Bob before?

[Hectic]

VOTE: pine

remake this wagon i think

just a reminder that

[Hectic]

He stopped posting right around when his wagon formed. Now it's completely disintegrated with no further posts from him, I don't think that's normal.

[Hectic]

I don't think there's any three person scumteam where I get to feel like I played this game well.

I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to find the three person scumteam on day 1?

[Hectic]

Woah. Looking forward to the catchup.

[Hectic]

@NaCl: I've seen him do a very similar type of VCA as town in a kinda recent large game. He just feels incredibly similar here, and his pushes and behaviour are all genuine imo.

[Hectic]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

Yeah, how is this an obvious scum post?

[Hectic]

Because he's spent half the game selling the idea that if ank is approaching the game like he's town then he's town, and he's trying 5o ad hominem his way out of anyone disagreeing

This makes some more sense actually.

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

But not this, I found myself agreeing with a lot of the reasons Eddie put in that other post.

[Hectic]

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

like you guys are looking at this and still thinking krazy is town? seriously?

Do you believe in ate after ate?

Idk, Krazy. At first, you were uncertain about him and were leaning town, but now you're regarding basically every action of his as scummy. Is this because his play got severely worse overall, or is scum!you shifting your perception? Could also be town tunnelling of course.

[Hectic]

They both make good arguments tbh, this is pretty fun.

[Hectic]

Now you are pushing this ridiculous theory too? Serious question, does anyone here besides Pops, NaCi, Krazy thinks this even remotely makes even an iota of sense?

How in the actual fuck do you not know any of your team members’ alignment in a game if fucking TEAM mafia?

I don't think that's something you should scumread him for. I can see the logic behind that so that your team members have genuine townie thoughts. The flip side is not being able to help with PR kills, pushes.. etc as Eddie mentioned, but it's worth considering.

[Hectic]

I didn't, and I am serious.

I probably will at some point though.

It's advantageous in the same way that not reading your role PM is advantageous (and therefore not allowed).

Lul, how is it advantageous for you if you're town? If you don't tell them, won't they just assume you're town? Hilarious if this is a scumslip.

[Hectic]

What do you want me to talk about? I don't usually comment much unprompted after placing a vote.

Who's scum in Eddie/Krazy? I'm thinking Pops-town, but I warming to the idea of a scum in them with how confident they are on each other.

[Hectic]

And again, I said this a long time ago, I don't think you and Pops are S/S. Usually, it isn't two scum buddies hard pushing the same thing, its one wrong town and one scum. And I have reconciled her as the one scum. It is easy for a good player to get passionate about something like that as scum, especially if they believe people should be scum reading me for it and think its unfair I'm getting town read, though that's just conjecture.

I'd ask Hopkirk if he's read this game. I don't know him super well but I believe he's experienced and should help out.

Oh yeah, I have an answer for this.
Hopkirk's comments so far:
He says he hasn't properly read the game but will try on Sunday, needs more context leading up to the comment to address it fully. He agrees with Pops that town usually get hard pocketed by scum in the hoods. He doesn't understand why pops said about rearranging hoods though, he's not sure if she addressed or dodged that, because it doesn't make sense if she doesn't want to use it. He agrees with Eddie's 904 in isolation.

[Hectic]

Lul, how is it advantageous for you if you're town? If you don't tell them, won't they just assume you're town?

If they do assume you're town, then there's no downside, and no reason not to do it because of the hypothetical benefit.

I still don't understand this. You just said that you didn't tell your teammates your alignment. What's the hypothetical plus side if you

know

you're town? Why not just tell them you're town?

[Hectic]

Huh.

[Hectic]

I would rearrange the hoods to hang out with a friend, Hectic.

There are several friends in this game I could enjoy chatting with without being aligned

I could go Starry Night and just discuss Advance Wars editions in the game thread I guess. I feel like that'd be a great improvement actually

This is out of order, Hectic made preview edit.

Fair enough, Titus isn't very talkative so I see where you're coming from honestly.

What what what?

[Hectic]

That's not a town mindset because you are making peesumptions about how my relationship with ank works. Like you don't know me. I don't know how well you know Ank but I feel like you spent this game trying to create conflict between me and people in your team rather than solve my fucking alignment

So are you scum or a colossal fucking asshole? I'm inclined to think scum because I don't think you're that much of a douche

This feels like an overreaction.

[Hectic]

Krazy has requested replacement.

Damn, he was probably town then.

[Hectic]

Salutations.

[Hectic]

Krazy subbed out under pressure as scum in Alisae vs Pine. I'm sure hes subbed out as town too. It's not AI.

Idk, just read that and it doesn't feel the same. He never made it personal there.

[Hectic]

Just towards the end close to the replace out.

[Hectic]

What does antispew mean btw?

[Hectic]

I see

Amrun and Oka are probably both town if SS flips scum. Otherwise, I reckon it's Bob + Pops + Pissy, with 2 probably being town.

[Hectic]

I understand I am Krazy but uh I am also not Krazy. What an unfortunate yet opportunistic moment to pun there, surely my lack of restraint indicates I am not Krazy with a C what I did there lol goodnight

Thoughts on policy lynching this?

[Hectic]

Ditto ^

[Hectic]

Amrun and Oka are probably both town if SS flips scum.

Also what

I have not interacted with either of those players barely at all

Sorry, ignore. It was antispew

[Hectic]

OK, could you ISO Eddie and look at his interactions with you and Pops (he hard scumreads you both), and tell us what you think of his alignment?

[Hectic]

What does antispew mean btw?

What does antispew mean btw?

creating false associatives

doing random shit to hope that town will read into it

I see

Amrun and Oka are probably both town if SS flips scum. Otherwise, I reckon it's Bob + Pops + Pissy, with 2 probably being town.

Before this racks up any more confusion. These were joke nonsensical reads/antispew.

[Hectic]

unwnd Id actually like your opinion on heckboy.

I hold a burning scumread of him in my heart.

Why?

[Hectic]

Do you think Eddie / Me is SvT?

I'm townleaning your slot, and kinda null-scumleaning Eddie now. It's changed a lot over the last 10 pages.

[Hectic]

Your start. I think youre still faking your reads and I think your contributions after your wagon fell off have been anti-meta in nature.

How's this different from my meta?

[Hectic]

Do you think Eddie / Me is SvT?

I'm townleaning your slot, and kinda null-scumleaning Eddie now. It's changed a lot over the last 10 pages.

Because Krazy replaced out? That’s totally NIA for him.

Nah, because I was liking his play before the 1v1, and then I liked his arguments since then. I thought he was overreacting and the attacks on Eddie were a little OTT near the end there, but then the replace out means it was genuine, regardless of alignment.

[Hectic]

I thought he was overreacting and the attacks on Eddie were a little OTT near the end there, but then the replace out means it was genuine, regardless of alignment.

Yeah, I agree that the replace out should probably be regarded as NAI after giving it some thought, but I think he did replace out because he was frustrated, which means the hostility towards the end there was genuine, which were kinda the only doubts I was having on him as in I wasn't sure if he was actually upset. So if they're NAI, think he's town.

-Hectic

[Hectic]

@NaCl: It was because of Bob's recent posts. I've seen this type of VCA from him before where he insists most wagons have 1 scum on them and tries to PoE using that logic. Mind you, I don't entirely agree with the theory, but his persistence about it is consistent with my other games with him. Though, I haven't actually played with scum!him so that's something to note.

[Hectic]

But also agree with I think it was SS saying Bob is actually interrogating and solving. I'll find the VCA in the large game later.

[Hectic]

I don't think you're scum because I think you lied about your alignment to your teammates, Eddie. That's a stupid way to justify whether people believe your teammate's reads. Your teammates are capable players who can probably fabricate believable reads as scum anyway, so I don't think people should townread/scumread Eddie for those reads, especially when the reads don't come with the tone, presentation or other little things that you could usually observe about town/scum!Ank/Tom's reads if that makes sense.
Why are you focusing on defending yourself on that aspect, Eddie? Who's actually scumreading you on that other than Krazy, who's gone now?

Pops is top town for me now besides Nancy, I think. Eddie's slightly below average, but I'd still rather lynch Pine, Titus, and Elsa Jay over him. I might sheep Amrun on thinking this is town!DDL not going with the flow, but need to reISO him at some point.
Speaking of, where you at, Pine?

[Hectic]

But also agree with I think it was SS saying Bob is actually interrogating and solving. I'll find the VCA in the large game later.

That large game was just to much for it. AS it works by tracking every vote


still i got titus and arron with it. Even if i did miss rick but that was because i believed his doc claim and never factored him in. I hate red herrings, i fall for them to often.

Do you normally do this VCA on day 1 before there's any flips? Thinking back, you did it in the large game several days in iirc.

[Hectic]

So from that understanding Pops/Eddie is another thing that happened? Was under the slight impression it was Me/Krazy? My read is Pops is supposed to be good but turns out to be historically bad unfortunately.

Also uh what's the deadline? I've seen the VCs and it keeps just saying it's in 5 days

Look at 893.

[Hectic]

varries. That game i had no easy vc to go through to analysis. It wasnt till day 3 that i was prepared to collect the data myself and it was draining.

Just depends when im looking at teh vote counts allot. I tend to bounce around the different VCa looking at all the comments and votes around it.

Lookign for both those on teh wagon and those that have no reason not to be on it. in earlier game then first scum i found with it was because he wasnt on the main lynch.

You made those intermediary VCs yourself for that analysis? That's some dedication right there. Can we have a shotgun reads list from you btw? Don't think I recall seeing one from you.

[Hectic]

My gut feeling is that scum I think would be trying to get their naigbhour lynched. So am suspicious of any neighbour focusing on their neighbour for scum reads. As it would make sense if they could. But are they?

why? from a townie's perspective, your neighbour has a 3/7 chance of being scum. Also, doesn't it make scum look really bad if they get their neighbour lynched and they flip town? Makes the probability of them being scum - statistically speaking - severely go up.

[Hectic]

from a townie's perspective, your neighbour has a 3/7 chance of being scum.

*3/11

There are 11 townies with neighbors, and 3 of them have scum neighbors.

There are 7 neighbourhoods and 3 of which have scum in them. So if you're town, your neighbour has a 3/7 chance of being scum.

[Hectic]

from a townie's perspective, your neighbour has a 3/7 chance of being scum.

*3/11

There are 11 townies with neighbors, and 3 of them have scum neighbors.

Oh, wait, you're right, because knowing you're town decreases the likelihood of scum being in your neighbourhood, so it's not 3/7.

[Hectic]

If pops is top town why would you sheep me on DDL?

You're a townlean, what does Pops being town have to do with it?

[Hectic]

I got the impression you know DDL's play well/know him irl, or is this not true?

[Hectic]

There are 7 neighbourhoods and 3 of which have scum in them. So if you're town, your neighbour has a 3/7 chance of being scum.

That isn't how math works. If you were to label the players like:

Scum 1 - Town 1
Scum 2 - Town 2
Scum 3 - Town 3
Town 4 - Town 5
Town 6 - Town 7
Town 8 - Town 9
Town 10 - Town 11

A townie has an equal chance of being in any of those 11 town slots. If they happen to be in Town 1, Town 2 or Town 3 (3/11 chance), their neighbor is scum; otherwise, their neighbor is town.

Yeah, you're right.

[Hectic]

What aspect should I be defending? Those are the only reasons I've seen given. Pops was the only vote on me until Krazy.

Idk actually. I forgot why I was scumleaning you. I think because of your AtE game but that should be NAI, not a reason to scumread you. Maybe because of the way you presented cases, like showing Krazy was making a narrative by showing the post times seemed a little overkill, but that could be a playstyle thing.
Oh yeah, Krazy and Pops probably being town makes you worse due to their scumreads on you, think that was the reason. I know that's not something you can defend against though.

[Hectic]

I get what you mean, Eddie. It would be weird if this is a TvTvT. The problem is that if I look at each person individually, I'm townreading one, and townleaning the other two. And the fact two of those are scumreading you does makes you worse, but you're town standalone as well so I'm not sure if that makes sense or how much weight I should be putting on that.
One thing's for sure though, I'm much more confident on lynching Pine than picking scum between you three. Compromise lynch please.

[Hectic]

I'm impatient now because it feels like this day phase has gone on for ages, but we should wait for him to return in case he somehow townspews. I'm no savage.

[Hectic]

Pretty sure that's normal for day 1

[Hectic]

If you hit the back button after it doesn't work, it usually brings up the page with your text there.

[Hectic]

Thanks for the carry, guys. I totally knew Pops was scum btw; I was just testing you all.

Pine kill is ???, i was even more certain about him being scum after seeing the popsflip.

[Hectic]

VOTE: Hectic
My opinion of him has decreased after the pops scumflip. It kind of feels like most of D1 was soft-defending Pops. Like every read on Pops he gave was more or less "Pops is firmly town but I'm not going to try to derail the wagon." But more or less I feel a lot better about having most of a town core and I think that this is a good way to go.

I wasn't soft-defending her, I'm pretty sure I said multiple times "pops is a mislynch" and "this flips town, guys". I wasn't trying to be secretive about it; I was just wrong.
I suppose I could've voted Eddie/Krazy who were competing wagons if I

really

didn't want Pops to be lynched, but I was townleaning/reading both and was still confident on Pine being scum.

[Hectic]

@Pissy: Could you explain again why I'm scum because of meta? You ignored me before.

@Nancy: Has Elsa given reads/thoughts in the hood, or has it been non-game related?

[Hectic]

Okay, so I'm liking Amrun, Bob, and Krazy's rep for town based on Pop being scum.

SS is someone who parked early on Pops but didn't push her much. He made passing comments where he answered Eddie but nothing else. Someone mentioned this might be a playstyle thing? Please clarify.

Her actually referencing Doc rolecop shots is weird.

Right, because for Eddie outing the hood to have actually helped scum, they would have to both be town... but she voted him in that post so clearly she didn't think that.

Yeah, that's pretty nasty.

VOTE: pops

I don't like these reasons for scumreading her. Her argument wasn't based on that, it was based on Eddie caring more about being right over playing optimally, which she thought was a scum-indicative thing.

[Hectic]

I'm confused on the Bob scumread. The BobVPops thing came at a time where the Pops wagon was close to Pine and Eddie's, and that argument made Pops look bad imo, and took her wagon further out of sight.

[Hectic]

VOTE: Elsa Jay

[Hectic]

dude i really think its pine/piss/pops agh

I like the alliteration.

VOTE: Pops

VOTE: Eddie

Eh. From what I've read, I don't like Eddie much. So I'll recontribute again day 2 but for now I'm okay with your lynch.

VOTE: Pops

Blood for the Sausage God.

Well, you gave no reasons for voting pops in the first post. Though that's some real lazy bussing if you're scum buddies. And your switch to Eddie brought Pops down to 4 votes, and Eddie up to 4, so I could see that as a last ditch effort to see if you guys could lynch Eddie over her.
And the last one was the hammer(?) when the Pops lynch was all but decided.

[Hectic]

VOTE: pops

my solve is heckboy/popsof-inscum/pairbondedpoisons with an outside flex of okapolka

while im not sold on pops being scum, I think there's merit in it.
while im not sure about eddie either, Ive progressed in reads from 'oh so eddie is a middling poster, maybe town' to 'oh, this guy talks like he has some skelebones in his closet.'

that weird interaction wrt the boasting in the hood and pops not vioting eddie until now tho. whats up pops? y no vote b4?

VOTE: eddie

ill revote to flip pops, but I think this is the new flavor of the week.

OK, could you ISO Eddie and look at his interactions with you and Pops (he hard scumreads you both), and tell us what you think of his alignment?

Do you think Eddie / Me is SvT?

I think Pops/Eddie was TvS

Youre town who got into fisticuffs

OK, could you ISO Eddie and look at his interactions with you and Pops (he hard scumreads you both), and tell us what you think of his alignment?

Do you think Eddie / Me is SvT?

I think Pops/Eddie was TvS

Youre town who got into fisticuffs

Based on?

Which one?

Eddie v pops is because they share a hood, eddie is trolling, and pops is admittedly acting funny.

Krazy is town because they feel and contribuite like it. I have no meta on Krazy, but like their play. Their early game was weak, but the stuff from before he voted eddie is gold.

Krazy Pops has a nice ring to it tho!

VOTE: salt

I think pops might be town tbh. Theyre reads are consistent.

I dont recall pops' scumgame. Anyone have an insight?

VOTE: pops

baby

Pops if you flip red im going to be a sad panda.

Pissy's progression on Pops is interesting. Starts of voting her early but then switches to Eddie and then NaCl soon after while still throwing shade on Pops. Also says Eddie is trolling and Pops is admittedly acting funny while on Eddie and not Pops. I could see this as scum early bussing then trying to save their buddy late on. The vote at the end was when the Pops lynch was decided I think.
Though the NaCl vote is weird. He says Pops might be town and votes NaCl which is kind of an odd counterwagon choice since Eddie was the main viable wagon there.

[Hectic]

I'm not saying your third vote is scummy/bad, I'm saying it doesn't give you towncred because a Pops lynch was decided there.

Your first vote was a complete joke then? Do you remember who you were scumreading at the time? Were you scumreading Pops?

So what info did you gain from seeing who pushed Eddie/Pops after your vote on Eddie?

[Hectic]

First?

VOTE: nancy drew

got a cop guilty here i promise you

So my neighbor is Town. Good stuff!

Crackpot theory, but Pine made this post after only Oka and SS had posted. When I read his post back then, I interpreted it to mean he was calling one of SS or Oka - the only two to have posted before him - his neighbour and town. I thought it was more likely in regards to Oka's post over SS'.

If scum knows for a fact that both SS and Oka are in neighbourhoods - because either they are scum or in neighbourhoods with one of the scum - they know Pine was lying. This also works if this only applies to Oka, since it looked more like Pine was talking about Oka's post rather than SS'.

Could be why he ate the NK, and would also make Oka scum or in a neighbourhood with scum. Am I still on the rails?

[Hectic]

I'm not saying your third vote is scummy/bad, I'm saying it doesn't give you towncred because a Pops lynch was decided there.

Your first vote was a complete joke then? Do you remember who you were scumreading at the time? Were you scumreading Pops?

So what info did you gain from seeing who pushed Eddie/Pops after your vote on Eddie?

^Elsa

[Hectic]

@nancy. From menal

Trying to self meta yourself does fuck all for me, as does trying to make me think I’m bad when I’m demonstrably not

Your progression was shit on pops, considering how much you went on about how she was town only to flip onto her once it looked like she was going through, and looks like a badly executed bus

I know because I read your ISO, all over 500 posts of it, which is another reason why you need to die today; so you stop breathing all the oxygen in the thread. In the case that I’m wrong, then it means that scum stop getting to hide behind your drowning out of other voices, which is still a win. However, I think you’re probably just flipping scum

Just FYI you're supposed to paraphrase if you weren't doing that.

[Hectic]

I mean, I see what you’re saying, but I think that’s a leap. I personally assumed that he was either a) joking or b) his townread was based off of something in the neighborhood, not in the thread, with b) being more likely.

Is that an odd assumption? If it is, I need to re-evaluate.

I assumed he was non-joking implying Oka was his neighbour, but jokingly implying Oka was town for his post. I know it's a bit of a leap.

[Hectic]

I don't think Micc automates VCs though.

[Hectic]

I know it's your job as scum and all, but stop trying to get me lynched and go to another neighborhood.

VOTE: elsa

Case later

Yes, letting your neighbor and/or Scum team make your case already. Wonderful strategy.

I don't like these posts.
Elsa, I can see why you're annoyed at Oka's timestamp fishing, but why does it make him scum? It's cheeky, but actually kinda towny to care about the details he was looking for. I don't see the basis for calling him scum off of that.

[Hectic]

Hectic had a team wide gimmick and his play was the equivalent of quoting his team's posts

That's a massive tactical advantage especially if he has someone on his team with certain tells

That was all RP; all of those posts were written by me.
I can see why the mods asked me stop now.

[Hectic]

Let's not out the other hoods; doc still an IC which we should try and keep alive for as long as possible.

[Hectic]

I see what you mean, Eddie. But on the other hand, the doc is someone scum have to kill sooner rather than later as it's really bad for an IC to be alive close to endgame. So while doc hunting, which is a 1/2 to a 1/4 for them depending on whether scum are in any of the outed hoods, they could make in-optimal kills if they read a neutral/scummy player as the doc. We shouldn't give them the easy route of killing doc tonight and then killing whoever they please (towniest towns probably) in future nights.

[Hectic]

My notes are terrible.

I know me Hectic.
Nancy Elsa.
Eddie and pops.

Who else?

That's it right now, I think.

[Hectic]

In Eddie we trust I guess; it's go time then. Especially now that Amrun has outed. Phone Operator keeps their mouth shut because mafia can only find them via rolecop.

[Hectic]

I'm not saying your third vote is scummy/bad, I'm saying it doesn't give you towncred because a Pops lynch was decided there.

Your first vote was a complete joke then? Do you remember who you were scumreading at the time? Were you scumreading Pops?

So what info did you gain from seeing who pushed Eddie/Pops after your vote on Eddie?

^Elsa

^Jay

[Hectic]

@NaCl: Is there any reason for not putting your vote down for the entirety of the end of Day 1?

Pissy being antagonistic to Eddie recently is pinging me. There's no reason to aggravate an IC as scum, so I think Pissy's trying to project himself as an annoyed townie who's doing that? Idk, it felt like abrasiveness out of nothing to me.

[Hectic]

titus > hectic
okapoka > unwind
pine > bob
nancy > elsa
amrun > piss
naCl > SvS


I have a new game. 4 of these 6 pairings have only town. Pick two that you think contain only town.

Oka>Unwund
Nancy>Elsa
Amrun>Piss
SS>NaCl

is where I'm at. My guess for the two town neighbourhoods would be Oka-Unwund, and Titus and I (statistically speaking).

[Hectic]

I'm warming to Titus after that VCA

[Hectic]

Town (most towny to least towny): DDL > Eddie > S_S > Amrun > Bob > ND
Null: Okapoka, Titus
Scum (most scummy to least scummy): Hectic > Elsa > Unwnd > Pisskop

Please go over your scumread of me and show me examples of what you didn't like about me defending Pops.

[Hectic]

After what I went through on D1 - specifically because of YOU - and the consequences I went through as a result of that - it’s nice to see that you know absolutely nothing about me as either a friend or a human being. Whatever.

What are you talking about here, Nancy?

[Hectic]

When - and it looks like when not if - elsa flips im getting the maf monies for it.

Lul, no, I was suspecting him way before.

[Hectic]

Not much of it.

And I am more interested in proving my town game. I just forget I'm shit at opens where setup and mechanical spec is the most useful instead of true hard reads.

This game lost interest to me the second we actually lynched scum day 1 and you guys can do the solve strategy. I was hoping Pops was town and I hammered so I could get scumread and give myself motivation to try-hard and save myself, and find scum in the process.

Instead I guess I'll just see what happens and just gently tell Oka to get ready and search your other scum reads as hard as you did me.

You're getting scumread now so you're gonna have to try-hard to save yourself regardless.

This logic is so roundabout and anti-wincon though, that I'm not sure I buy it. Also, why are you ignoring my question? You know that just tells me you're ignoring it because you don't have a good answer for it?

[Hectic]

Nancy's essentially locktown for me now for

reasons

, but you should really stop talking about stuff that may have happened outside of this game. You're edging real close to modkill territory.

[Hectic]

@Piss and @ anybody else who has unwnd as townish

Can you please explain why?

Mostly because of Krazy honestly. I'll put some time aside to reread and ISO that slot tomorrow.

[Hectic]

Then as the game progressed and Eddie looked more towny and Pops started arguing with Amrun, and you moved to a more-middle of the road stance on her and saying that she could be town or she could be scum, 180ing on your opinion on Eddie from before. At no point did you really take a firm stance on defending pops but rather you were more trying to call it off from the sidelines.

Like it felt as though you thought pops was town but weren't willing to take a stand relative to your read on her. Which is why I say you were soft defending her. Despite her being your strongest townread you didn't really care to try and stop the wagon and actually hard defend her, and were instead vanity-wagoning Pine.

I don't think this is true at all though. Annoying to admit it, but I had her as a top townread and made several posts on why the wagon on her was bad. I know that can be scummy as well if I'm just scum openly defending her, but I don't see where your "more-middle of the road stance" thing is coming from. I'll go find some posts now.

[Hectic]

Pops keeps attacking/shading people who have potential to defend her, and aren't on her wagon. She did it earlier with me when talking about how my wagon could be a town-driven scumwagon, right after I'd made some posts defending her. And now she's attacking Bob when she's probably aware that Bob has a tendency to OMGUS, and scum!her really can't afford to do that right now. I think this flips town.

Eh, it's sprinkled throughout my ISO actually, but this was the main reason towards the end why I thought she was town.

[Hectic]

Time to read this DDL case on Pissy

[Hectic]

Yeah, 3440 is largely similar to my thoughts when I made my post on Pissy's progression on Pops. The flip flopping and then looking towards the NaCl/Eddie wagons before returning on Pops is hecka scummy.

[Hectic]

Elsa is literally doing nothing though. He's actively ignoring difficult questions and not engaging. Think it's more likely he's scum rather than town who doesn't care whatsoever. Also, his logic for hoping Pops' flips town so he garners some suspicion and starts tryharding is dubious.

[Hectic]

What made you think Pops was towny towards the end?

[Hectic]

I want to marry post 2466, save up a 401k with it and retire in florida, then relax on the beach together while complaining about the condo association raising the prices and how culture needs to stop changing

I was gonna point out how I don't see anything Pops did before Pissy's flip on her to be considered as pocketing or a reason to change his mind, but then I noticed the above post...

[Hectic]

I think Piss might be town actually. I can see more evidence of Pops trying to pocket him rather than interactions I'd consider fake.
Elsa is the way forward. I'm still unconvinced on unwnd scum. Look at Pops' reaction to the replace out:

Yucky

Krazy has requested replacement.

Damn, he was probably town then.

lol expert testimony

[Hectic]

She claims she said she was sure Pops was scummy from the getgo but in main thread, she claims to have tr her? And now, it’s a joke? It didn’t sound like it to me. Also her voting around Eddie wagon was suspicious. I also asked her about some comment she made earlier on about whether she thought Krazy could be PO and she said it was a joke but he’s town, so make of that what you will.

You're talking about Elsa, right?

[Hectic]

She claims she said she was sure Pops was scummy from the getgo but in main thread, she claims to have tr her? And now, it’s a joke? It didn’t sound like it to me. Also her voting around Eddie wagon was suspicious. I also asked her about some comment she made earlier on about whether she thought Krazy could be PO and she said it was a joke but he’s town, so make of that what you will.

Do you mind paraphrasing Elsa saying he claimed Pops was scummy from the get go? And then also paraphrase him saying it's a joke later?

This could be condemning; I might have to start making recruitment posters again.

[Hectic]

Honestly, I think you guys are reading too much into her reads list. Maybe Pops is slightly more likely to split her team equally into the three sections - though I'm not sure what you're basing this on, but it's far more useful to look at when she goes into depth and explains her reads rather than viewing this random list that could've been put together in any way.

[Hectic]

VOTE: Eddie

Eh. From what I've read, I don't like Eddie much. So I'll recontribute again day 2 but for now I'm okay with your lynch.

Elsa voted Eddie before Krazy was announced to be replaced, Nancy. But why would it be less suspicious if he voted after the replacement anyway?

[Hectic]

That would be a more useful thing to look for, SS. I can't say it'd matter much, because it is just 1 small thing, but could be fun to look at.

I think Pissy's probably town and Elsa is a far better lynch. How is he he getting away with what he's been doing this day phase? Calling Titus and I lynchers at heart and then asking SS vaguely how he's doing is not townplay; it's scum coasting to the max.

Oh yeah, also, why are you townreading Elsa, SS?

[Hectic]

My god Hectic is literally just a Lyncher at heart. I commend him for his single-mindedness though.

VOTE: Pisskop okay Titus.

VOTE: Eddie

Eh. From what I've read, I don't like Eddie much. So I'll recontribute again day 2 but for now I'm okay with your lynch.

Elsa voted Eddie before Krazy was announced to be replaced, Nancy. But why would it be less suspicious if he voted after the replacement anyway?

I voted Eddie at that point because I was mad at him for making Krazy feel bad. The replacement just demotivated me.

I voted Eddie at that point because I was mad at him for making Krazy feel bad. The replacement just demotivated me.

still scum AtEing around about their feels

If You haven't realized at this point I'm an emotional player you've been reading me wrong since post 1. Don't just tell me my feeling are "lul fucking scummy AtE".

You and Hectic wouldn't have to apologize. Your just doing your job as Lynchers.

Hey Smarty, what was the last game we played together? Or was it with Bambi? You haven't stuck out to me so far from my limited viewing. How have you been?

I'm not talking about him being a lyncher, Titus. I'm talking about his most recent posts^
He's not even taking stances on whether the people pushing him are scum or town, he's just calling us "lynchers". That's not a good sign.

[Hectic]

I'm calling you what you are Hectic, since you wont get off of me when clearly over half the town is going a different direction today.

Actually try solving other slots instead of going "Lynch Elsa" for 5 days in a row.

Do you mind giving us a shotgun reads list, Elsa? I can't see one from scrolling up your ISO.

[Hectic]

Hectic is an interesting person to read, and has a lot of posts. There was a point day 1 I thought him and Pops were never SvS, because of how blatantly they were hard aligning. Now, looking back, they were... hard aligning, lol, and those terrible associations are really hard to ignore. If Hectic is town, its a great example of why tying yourself to a townie is a good play - because they always die. And if Hectic is scum, then my posting is an example of why hard aligning is a good play - because scum rarely do it. Dunno.

If I'm being honest, if I see two people hard aligning, those two are gonna be more often scum together than the baseline for the odds of them being scum together. However, I think the important thing is to see how I came to align with Pops, and if you think my reasons were legitimate.

[Hectic]

ISOed Krazy:
-His interactions with Pops seem natural for the most part.
-Play up to to his 1v1 with Eddie is good imo.
-But then, as someone who came in saying he wanted to get to know people, he got aggressive at Eddie a lot faster than I think is reasonable, and I don't really see what Eddie did to aggravate him other than scumreading him. I'm looking at where he flips his read, and this feels off based on how he was intending to play:

Eddie are you just super awkward? Why do you give me cagey bullshit but write shit that makes sense about bob? Do you struggle with talking to people or what?

And then this is tinfoily as fuck; lying about your team's reads is beyond stupid:

I kinda think the idea that tom and ank both gave fresh reads list today since that convo is kinda unlikely. How did they go from both down for (redacted) reasons to giving full tiered lists within half a day?

And then 2041 and 2043 are overreactions.
2052: Does he as town really doubt Eddie lying about his team being in bad moods, and then make his case based on Eddie lying about his team's reads? It's dubious.

Elsa+unwnd are both fine to lynch. Pissy's probably town.

[Hectic]

Someone link these similar Elsa neglected town games please.

[Hectic]

@Eddie: I think it was you who was talking about metaing him earlier?

[Hectic]

If there's one good thing that's come out of these Titus-Nancy squabbles, it's the fact it's made me like Titus a lot more.

[Hectic]

VOTE: Unwnd L-2

[Hectic]

Feels so wrong to let Elsa get away with doing nothing though.

[Hectic]

This wagon had a lot less resistance than Pops.

There's only one other scum in the game, Nancy.

[Hectic]

DDL + Eddie could be surprise pairing; I haven't written that off yet. Maybe I misread my PM and I'm actually the Phone Operator doc.

[Hectic]

This wagon had a lot less resistance than Pops.

There's only one other scum in the game, Nancy.

???

Isn’t there 2 left now?

I mean, if Unwnd is scum, lack of resistance doesn't really mean anything since he only has 1 buddy. Also, I think it's more important to look at who the lack of or resistance is coming from, rather than lack of overall.
What Pissy said.

[Hectic]

Are you guys really jumping on Pissy for what was an obvious joke?

[Hectic]

We know the two town PRs already though. Might be worth waiting for his last words though.

[Hectic]

Though I do kinda want to see the flip when I wake up tomorrow. Don't let me stop you.

[Hectic]

Yeah, Eddie claimed Phone Operator.

[Hectic]

Might be town-indicative that Oka and Nancy seem to both be unaware of this. Scum would be discussing it in their PT surely.
I'll go find the post.

[Hectic]

if i claimed PO to explain my day 1 intentional scumminess, baiting votes, and faked drunkenness to make an excuse to out that i'm in a hood, in order to reduce my NK equity...

would you believe me?

[Hectic]

<okapoka, eddie, ddl>
<nancy, titus>
<unwnd, s_s, amrun, bob >
<piss, nacl>
<elsa, hectic>

something like this rn

Oka, what happened to your scumread of me from the start of the day? I haven't seen you mention it since.

[Hectic]

You're not hammered, you're still on L-1.

[Hectic]

Lul, did you try to shoot Eddie, Elsa?

VOTE: Elsa

[Hectic]

Who do you think's the last scum then?

[Hectic]

Where does your confidence on SS stem from, Eddie? I didn't reread much during the night, but nothing comes to mind which makes him confident town for me.

[Hectic]

Oh yeah, I did read that earlier and think it made Elsa a lot more likely town actually. VOTE: NaCl
On SS, I didn't actually like his vote on Pops since the reason he gave was incorrect/weird, and kinda felt like bussing to me since he put the vote on and then didn't push her. Anyway, gonna get some much needed sleep now; I'll have to reread interactions tomorrow.

[Hectic]

Lul, what a twist, this game is so good. A shame you had to out today though, NaCl. Imagine what scum would've done tonight, do they reshoot DDL who they know is lying town? Or go for a kill on an IC like Eddie/Oka, and risk the real doc pulling off another save and giving town another day.

[Hectic]

I don't think you should've protected anyone last night, now that I think about it, NaCl. If there's still a no kill, you know that one of SS or DDL are scum trying to play you. And if DDL actually died, that might've been a good thing(?) on evens, since it just increases the pool for one extra person that has a chance of being scum without giving us any extra lynches.

[Hectic]

*since saving him just increases the pool...

[Hectic]

For the record @NaCl good play but I'm pretty sure the roleswap gambit works better if you let the VT (DDL) die, not save him.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

[Hectic]

I’m kinda disinterested in this game lately cuz it’s on lock.

Lul, same. I'm happy to sheep Eddie and lynch his 4 proposals tbh. Thought about reISOing Titus/SS just in case but eh, I'll take the carry.

If after me, Pissy, Elsa, and Bob are dead, and the game isn't over, my guess would be SS. DDL's thoughts EoD yesterday when we all thought he was doc that was gonna die felt really townie.

[Hectic]

VOTE: Pissy L-2

[Hectic]

I don't understand that kill at all, had NaCl saved correctly, we would be back on odds.

[Hectic]

VOTE: Elsa

[Hectic]

Maybe scum's convinced that we're still doc gambiting. Maybe I'M the doctor and haven't realised it yet.

[Hectic]

It was in jest, Eddie. I know it's completely unreasonable to think there's another layer to this doc gambit. I would never kill Oka there, it's a newbish kill that kinda rules out Titus and Amrun even more as scum, and points more towards me scum since I'm relatively new here. That's ignoring the fact you risk getting blocked and giving town an extra lynch.

Bob posting that VC reminded me both pops and Krazy were off my 7 wagon. I'd be surprised if all 3 stayed off it. But Bob, you're asking some open ended questions here but what's YOUR conclusion from that VCA?

[Hectic]

The Oka kill is interesting in that it basically has a 50% chance of spectacularly failing, and giving town an extra lynch. I don't see why you'd ever take that risk, even if you think it has potential to frame certain people. Especially if you're out of the current autolynch pool of {Me, Elsa, Bob}. My current thinking is it's just Elsa who basically has nothing to lose.

[Hectic]

@You only ever protect Eddie/Oka last night. Targeting Oka is basically a 50% chance of getting blocked, that's why I think it's a newbish/bad kill.

[Hectic]

That should be obvious; feels like unnecessary justification to me.

[Hectic]

Why were you docreading NaCl back then?

[Hectic]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Has your team said anything about the game recently?

[Hectic]

Actually if you care too know, I told them to just focus on the other 2 games so they can have fun.

This one is boring.

Really? I've had a lot of fun this game. Your boredom might be alignment-indicative here, y'know. Since we're gonna be experiencing the game on different emotional levels if we're opposite alignments.

[Hectic]

Oopsie

Get your head in the game, Aa.

[Hectic]

I prefer this to bob, and I don't really want Elsa anymore.
I agree she's not really doing anything, but is the scum move to just kill the person who was suspecting you a bunch yesterday and then just...not do anything afterwards? I don't really see how it's supposed to get anywhere.

Eh, I think he's just scum who knows he basically has no chance of winning here, and if he suddenly starts solving and putting time in, it's gonna look scummy due to the sudden survivalism. I'm surprised people are liking the LAMIST defence he put out earlier tbh, since that's exactly what I'd expect as a last resort strat from him here if he's scum. I've liked Bob's recent posts too.

[Hectic]

Something_Smart has been killed Night 4. He was a

Town Indecisive Doctor

.

It is now Day 5.

Votecount 5.00

Not Voting (8) -

Eddie Cane, Titus, Nancy Drew 39, DrDolittle, Hectic, Amrun, NaCl, bob3141

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 5 is in (expired on 2020-02-12 23:35:00).

Wtf... I was actually right lol.

The only reason NaCl doesn't die is if DDL or NaCl are scum, since they're in the hood and actually know the truth.

[Hectic]

VOTE: NaCl

[Hectic]

Oh, that's L-1.

[Hectic]

Why does NaCl kill Oka last night though? It doesn't really make sense.
Is he trying to make us think scum know something is fishy but are not informed of the situation completely, so go for the doc!Oka kill? And then get "guess" right this night.

[Hectic]

What's a townbeard?

[Hectic]

first i see we are already on l-1. i think we shoudl take atleast a few days at the min to discuss this. I find it odd hectic would push it to l-1 so soon into the day.

Didn't realise it was L-1 until after I voted, Bob.

[Hectic]

we have that first hectic wagon that got to l-1 that so far has had zero flipped scum on it. with teh only players left on it being titus and nancy. both of which i feel are both town.

So either scum avoided that wagon or hectic is in fact scum.

So which one are you leaning towards, Bob?

[Hectic]

Hectic can you explain why no scum woudl be on your wagon. As if you beleive nacl is scum then you must have soem reasoning why scum woudl avoid your wagon.


As its clear that pops try to provide reasoning armum wouldnt be on it. In way its looking like that she could push mislynch of armum and at teh same time push you as town.


So if you are town why do you think scum didnt even vote you once past rvs. With teh only vote beign in rvs by krzay with his first post and that was gone before teh games second day

I think I was being pushed for being inactive/joking around too much early, so scum didn't really need to do any pushing. I think Pops and Krazy both saw me as the likely mislynch for the day so stayed off while soft-defending me, but not actually trying to stop the wagon in any way.

[Hectic]

These are some leading questions, Bob. Maybe because there weren't enough people willing to lynch me when he was in the game?
Could you take a stance on me? You've kinda dodged my questions with more questions the last 3 times I've asked you.

[Hectic]

If NaCl is scum and knows SS is the doc night 2, killing him kinda incriminate him. So maybe he goes for the IC Oka kill instead which gets blocked. And then targets him again for the guaranteed kill in night 3.

[Hectic]

Wait, but why did you claim doc yesterday in the first place, NaCl?

[Hectic]

Because the first nokill doesn't matter, Bob. We still have the same amount of lynches.
And the second time he targets Oka, there's no risk because he knows it's blocked the previous night.

[Hectic]

That's fine, Eddie. Wouldn't switch the other two out for anyone else.

[Hectic]

Because the first nokill doesn't matter, Bob. We still have the same amount of lynches.
And the second time he targets Oka, there's no risk because he knows it's blocked the previous night.

So what your saying is that oka was kill during the night of the no kill. Why do you think nacl would nk oka before edie.

Don't know. They were both IC.

[Hectic]

Could you take a stance on me? You've kinda dodged my questions with more questions the last 3 times I've asked you.

[Hectic]

i think hectic is less like scum of any poe. As though the two confirmed scum never joined it. They were indirectly pushing it. They dont come out in support of lycnhign hectic but they to claim town reads on the pushers or saying well i guess that does support a hectic lynch.

No real sign of them trying to push away from lynching hectic. Yet neither a sign of them bussing.

What changed from here, Bob?
Also, I don't understand why Oka over Eddie matters. I guess Eddie's a little more scary for catching 2 scum day 1, but it's basically a 50/50 on targeting one of the 2 ICs for scum!NaCl.

[Hectic]

DDL locktown for that case.

Nancy, if he targets Oka night 2 and it's blocked, then he knows Oka's a safe kill on night 3.

[Hectic]

I'm trying to think why the nightkills make sense if NaCl is scum, but yeah, maybe he just targets DDL there to make himself look better on night 2, but the thing about that is if that happened, then we know it got blocked, so then it's weird to kill Oka the next night, because if that also gets blocked, then we're back on odds and have an extra kill.