Mini Normal 2119 [game over]

[Menalque]

Scum theatrics and AtE.

@looker - why the vote on bji, specifically? If we're looking at UP voters...

We're not.

if your opportunism comment was about your own voters, why vote someone on another wagon?

Because I don't know who's scum. Some people are just horrific players.

It's a toss-up between bji and GuiltyLion for me.

this is just my dumb tinfoil brain before i actually do smart analyis but
VOTE: looker kinda feels lowkey lamist in a bad way and also different from the micro noormal where we mislynched thsi player

Different how?

---

And if we're referencing past games of mine that people have modded, why don't you check the dead threads where I asked the same question about scum-to-town ratio? Just like here, no one would give me a straight answer (or even a link to the formula).

• It's highly possible I might have to replace as well.

Datisi is boring and hapless, but that doesn't always mean scum. Saying that you would fake a townslip doesn't mean that I would. I'm in several games, and most mods put the ratio in the rules post and the 13 alive/7 to lynch stat in the votecount. The effortlessness of the research required and the fact that it wasn't accomplished is disheartening. It makes me question trying.

• I'm also reconciling the fact that as cool and as level-headed as people come across as mods is not always how they come across as players. I don't know if it's on purpose or not, but either way, it's disheartening.

Spoiler:

wilky (2):

bob3141, GuiltyLion,

Looker (3):

Datisi, AaronFrost, bugspray

Datisi (2):

emps, UltimatePlank

UltimatePlank (1):

wilky

bji (1):

Looker

bugspray (1):

Iconeum

not voting (3)

: Pine, Menalque, bji
13 alive, 7 to lynch!

SCUM {GuiltyLion/bji | bugspray/UltimatePlank | datisi/wilky} TOWN
Just so I can remember who I've looked at.

icon what is your take specifically on this post?

@looker 2 things

(1) if you wanna address me then address me directly, I don't mind

(2) 3 scum in a 13 player is an assumed standard and would only be worth reevaluating if confirmed!power role strength was very high for town which might indicate a traitor

[Iconeum]

I don't like your unwillingness to re-evaluate chem!slot based on game state icon, but I'm vining with you pretty hard on page 27

it's not that i'm unwilling to re-evaluate chemist

i said that his catchup feels very survivalistic and i don't like it

the fact that looker wagon grew so fast after his own wagon got stalled feels scum indicative

[Iconeum]

I don't like your unwillingness to re-evaluate chem!slot based on game state icon, but I'm vining with you pretty hard on page 27

it's not that i'm unwilling to re-evaluate chemist

i said that his catchup feels very survivalistic and i don't like it

the fact that looker wagon grew so fast after his own wagon got stalled feels scum indicative

[Iconeum]

@menal, i'll have that done in the next 24 hours as well as your prev question wrt bji

in the meanwhile, can you reread chemist iso and see what i mean about him being survivalistic and not really diggin into why looper is scum? it's literally 'oh hey looper opening post is scummy', and how he referred to bugs 'good job on your vote there' that feels very off tonally

[Menalque]

and this isn't really what I'm saying: I'm saying that the stalling out on chem!slot indicates town I think. the wagon clearing on him is NAI

i disagree on this, I think the stalling out usually indicates a scummy slot where town disagrees on and scum obviously isn't gonna help push

if chem is scum, and scum was on wagon, this was a great time for them to evacuate the buss on hop on looker

ofcourse nothing was stopping them from doing so earlier, i'm not very sure hmmm

I disagree, I think stalling out is slightly +town because it shows that scum are probably okay with that lynch happening and they know that if they just wait it out the top wagon is fairly likely to go through under deadline pressure so they have very little incentive to expose themselves by pushing that lynch when that makes them look worse in endgame

but admittedly, that does depend on a level of sophistication from scum players and the ability to resist pushing an easy mislynch

and yeah, I think your final point is good analysis, why don't scum create a counter wagon earlier or try to divert?

[Menalque]

I don't like your unwillingness to re-evaluate chem!slot based on game state icon, but I'm vining with you pretty hard on page 27

it's not that i'm unwilling to re-evaluate chemist

i said that his catchup feels very survivalistic and i don't like it

the fact that looker wagon grew so fast after his own wagon got stalled feels scum indicative

you mean scum!indicative for chem right?

@menal, i'll have that done in the next 24 hours as well as your prev question wrt bji

in the meanwhile, can you reread chemist iso and see what i mean about him being survivalistic and not really diggin into why looper is scum? it's literally 'oh hey looper opening post is scummy', and how he referred to bugs 'good job on your vote there' that feels very off tonally

dude I'm about 400 posts or something behind, I'm just trying to catch up chronologically

if I can I'll look at chem's ISO as well but rn my priority is trying to be informed on what everyone has been doing the last 3-4 days while I haven't been here

[Iconeum]

I disagree, I think stalling out is slightly +town because it shows that scum are probably okay with that lynch happening and they know that if they just wait it out the top wagon is fairly likely to go through under deadline pressure so they have very little incentive to expose themselves by pushing that lynch when that makes them look worse in endgame

ah now this i can understand

if chemist is scum and they are trying to counterwagon, they would have pushed looper harder? not sure. if looper is town, then i really want to revisit what i said earlier about aaron and datisi jumping wagons

[Iconeum]

I don't like your unwillingness to re-evaluate chem!slot based on game state icon, but I'm vining with you pretty hard on page 27

it's not that i'm unwilling to re-evaluate chemist

i said that his catchup feels very survivalistic and i don't like it

the fact that looker wagon grew so fast after his own wagon got stalled feels scum indicative

you mean scum!indicative for chem right?

@menal, i'll have that done in the next 24 hours as well as your prev question wrt bji

in the meanwhile, can you reread chemist iso and see what i mean about him being survivalistic and not really diggin into why looper is scum? it's literally 'oh hey looper opening post is scummy', and how he referred to bugs 'good job on your vote there' that feels very off tonally

dude I'm about 400 posts or something behind, I'm just trying to catch up chronologically

if I can I'll look at chem's ISO as well but rn my priority is trying to be informed on what everyone has been doing the last 3-4 days while I haven't been here

scum indicative for chem yes

if you haven't gotten to chemist actually catching up, then i suggest you read that first before we continue this discussion because I based my instistance on lynching chem on his actual posts, not his predecessor solely.

[Iconeum]

i just checked

if ur about 400 posts behind, you haven't read the 'good stuff' wrt chemist i'm talking about yet

that stuff doesn't start until post 1000 +.

We can have this conversation after you read him

[Menalque]

@wilky, regarding 673 when are you normally around to jam?

I kind of like wilky for town off've this?

I think him v bob is unlikely to be SvS

I think the way bji phrased his question has been made into more than it should have been and is NAI, although I think what he was doing was +town -- trying to make datisi and I take hardish stances on each other for reading later game esp if one of us flips

I also kind of like the questioning the looker TR on him? I hesitate to TR this too much bc I do that as scum, but looking at their topics and based on what wilky is saying in this post, it seems like they haven't played a lot recently, so that combined with them being aware of their lack of presence makes it more likely that they would just take a TR rather than feel the need to poke into it

[Menalque]

i just checked

if ur about 400 posts behind, you haven't read the 'good stuff' wrt chemist i'm talking about yet

that stuff doesn't start until post 1000 +.

We can have this conversation after you read him

yeah okay this works, I'm hoping to get that far today

[Menalque]

like rn I'm still trying to read with commentary but I gtg do RL work soon in which case I may try to just read later and then jam in real time

[Menalque]

Still think the UP slot is scum for the earlier flip flopping.

GL is town, menalque is town. BJI i'm thinking town.

I'm gonna reread datisi in a bit but I do like their post casing looker.
From above makes me lean scum on looker.

Still gotta sort everyone else will also give that a go later.

can you talk to me about UP!scum? do you still think this?

[Iconeum]

menal you could just read chemist iso real quick

it's not that long

[Menalque]

Wilky woudl you describe your answers as defensive?

Also wilky when you say you get better as you go on. Are you infect not simply setting up an excuse for why your on mislynches? As you infact dodged the question. I was asking are you sayign you get better as lynching as teh days goes on? and why shoudl we not think your simply setting up an excuse for reads that turn out bad?

Wilky whey do you think my question to ico was answered? Why did you feel the need to comment on it in a post that had no relevance to it? Are you scum reading me for it? as you voted for ulti in it.

Do you agree with what players are sayign about your posts?

I will try to get something more thorough up on bob later but I think this is a good example of what I don't like from him this game:

I think he's deliberately trying to frame things in a certain way and not approaching wilky in good faith here. Like the suggestion is being made through asking the question that wilky is being defensive "excuse me sir have you stopped beating your wife?" it's the same idea

and then also suggesting that he's dodging questions and is scum setting up excuses. rather than looking at that and taking it for what it is which is pretty NAI -- lots of players don't actually get better as the game goes on, but they believe they do as they do hit scum more often due to there simply being a higher chance of rand!voting scum. I think wilky was also quite a mislynchable slot here due to low content, and I think scum!bob is trying to take advantage of that

I also think this is reminiscent of his spam questioning from here and general lack of commitment to stuff

[Menalque]

menal you could just read chemist iso real quick

it's not that long

yes, I could, but me doing that precludes me from reading the rest of the game which is more useful for me overall

like I know that you would like me to do that one particular thing and I get why, but I'm going shortly to do some other work as I've already mentioned and that's not where I'm focussing my attention yet

[Menalque]

flip-flopping basically meaning that he kept switching his thoughts quite drastically and quickly at the beginning.

this is actually town indicative and a not scum indicative if you aks me

ftr I think it's NAI when looked at in a general sense

[Menalque]

Still think the UP slot is scum for the earlier flip flopping.

GL is town, menalque is town. BJI i'm thinking town.

I'm gonna reread datisi in a bit but I do like their post casing looker.
From above makes me lean scum on looker.

Still gotta sort everyone else will also give that a go later.

how did you coem to conclusion of menal being town. All i can see in regards to menal is you asking someone else about his meta. You even say it was to help sort menal but at no point have you directly tried to sort menal. Yet you all ready decide he is town


You give much more progression BJI but next to none on menal. All you come up with is he didnt need to get involved in a conversation. First why do you think sscum would not of got involved like menal. And why do you feel that it is making you feel strongly about town menal

also dislike this: I don't think direct interaction is necessary to form a read on someone. the fact that the read being referred to is on me is immaterial

like instead of just openly approaching wilky on the read and trying to get him to expand on where it comes from --which he does also do tbf-- he focuses on how it's like the read comes out of nowhere and paints that as a scummy thing to do, when there's no evidence for the read having come out of nowhere, just that it's unstated. it's stretching to keep painting wilky as scummy

[Menalque]

@wilky thoughts on 874 please

[bob3141]

menal i think you need to make a choice. If you were given two choices looker and chemist who would you lynch.

The way your sitting on me just looks like a vanity vote.

[Menalque]

If you dont agree with my assessment of your progression on menal it would be very enlightening to see what your porgression on menal was in your opinion. As well as how strongly you town read menal.

I don't understand what you're saying here? Where did I say I didn't agree with it? You asked me to clarify my town read.

I actually just went back and ISO'd menalque there weren't any specific quotes I grabbed as I don't think any actually standout individually but I do still have the townread on him. I guess partly its gut but I also like his progression throughout the game so far.

@Menalque what is your read on Iconeum?

town but this is pending flips. the dragon has fooled me before but I think I normally read him pretty well, and I sometimes end up SR stuff that he does that's just him being mislynch baity

as already mentioned, if looker flips scum/chem flips town then I think his scum equity goes up a lot

[Menalque]

Wilky if you dont think your answers were defensive how would you describe the nature of your questions. not about whetehr you answer questiosn or not.

What are you asking here? Which questions specifically? And what do my questions I ask people have to do with the answers I give to questions asked to me?

You're fixed on a tunnel on me, its clouding your judgement and in your last couple posts you're actually twisting things in a way that either don't make sense or aren't true. Take 5 then come back with a clear head, come out of the tunnel and actually read my answers, not what you want to read.

this is townposting. I don't really see scum taking the approach of "chill out and come back to thread to read me" I think they probably ignore or they push back, and certainly if they're rusty on playing I think that this approach (which I think is also very good faith) is town

[bob3141]

So then why are you not voting looker then?

If you think he is scum. Do you not want to be on chemist counter wagon? Is that reason you want your vote to be somewhere else.


menal dont forget you have never read me right once. In fact most players have poor read rate against me.

[Menalque]

largly null for most players. most havent said enough to get a read on the game of the game as a hole.

Although for now i think i got the info i need from this line of questioning.


Guilitylion what do you think of wilkys answers to my questions. Your also voting for wilky and said you agreeed on one of my questions i put to wilky. With you making deliberation on the post i was asking wilky about.

I think bob has been avoiding giving reads throughout because it's much easier to fake a tunnel and to avoid engaging with the rest of the thread than it is to convincingly have fake reads on the entire PL and to keep track of how you're meant to be reading each person and what your progression should be

[bob3141]

Wilky if you dont think your answers were defensive how would you describe the nature of your questions. not about whetehr you answer questiosn or not.

What are you asking here? Which questions specifically? And what do my questions I ask people have to do with the answers I give to questions asked to me?

You're fixed on a tunnel on me, its clouding your judgement and in your last couple posts you're actually twisting things in a way that either don't make sense or aren't true. Take 5 then come back with a clear head, come out of the tunnel and actually read my answers, not what you want to read.

this is townposting. I don't really see scum taking the approach of "chill out and come back to thread to read me" I think they probably ignore or they push back, and certainly if they're rusty on playing I think that this approach (which I think is also very good faith) is town

So you have given a arguement as to why you think wilky is town. But what does this have to do with your read on me?

Although you quote is something scum can easily manufacturer. Its onyl when you push a little harder is when you find if its manufactured or not