Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[Auro]

I'll tell y'all when I'm sure on a read

[Auro]

Meanwhile, can you tell me why that is a wtf vote, why's my paranoia unjustified?

Atari, looking forward to your reads list.

[acryon]

Self-meta makes me very uncomfortable. As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't like proactively offering up reasons for why you would or wouldn't do something as scum. It's total WIFOM, and I don't think town really needs to do it.

literally nai, i do this as both alignments all the time

That's fair, but the manner in which he did it still makes me uncomfortable.

Acryon what happened to your Eve scumread? You spent most of D1 voting Eve and still seemed suspicious of her D2, but have barely interacted with her or pushed her today

My big problem with Eve is I just can't make a case based on her play. D1 and today as well has been uninspiring from her, but it's just a lot harder to move on because there's so little there. I frankly have very little reason to believe Eve is town based on her posts, but I just don't know where to start on a case against her.

Cuz like, we're at 7/2. Two mislynches to play with so we can get more info off of flips to work with and it's not like there are other PRs who are at risk of getting shot tonight. So let's just lynch a slot that'll give us the best associatives to go into tomorrow with and we'll see who scum wants to flip and go for a solve there?

If someone's trying to read or do something today then I'm down to wait for them to do what they wanna do but otherwise what are we doing?

So what in your opinion are the slots that you think give us the best associatives?

[acryon]

I just don't think I can get behind a Titus lynch today.

VOTE: Eve

How about we try this. Someone tell me why Eve is town.

[Titus]

AH, where is the acroyn case?

VOTE: Eve

[Auro]

What's the Eve case?
Acryon's posting over the last few pages has been pretty bad.

[Auro]

My big problem with Eve is I just can't make a case based on her play. D1 and today as well has been uninspiring from her, but it's just a lot harder to move on because there's so little there. I frankly have very little reason to believe Eve is town based on her posts, but I just don't know where to start on a case against her.

So I was hiding behind the Copbloc gimmick and otherwise nothing.
Eve's play is uninspiring (I note that you're using this a second time)

Can you explain once more some of your *townreads* so I get a feel for what you look for in town?

[Auro]

Subject: Mini 1998: Super Smash Mafia for Nintendo Switch! [GAME OVER

-snip-
Well my two biggest scumreads from yesterday are dead. Kokichi is my number one now because his early play yesterday pinged, the quickhammer was bad, and his play today has been

uninspiring

to say the least. I could see scum!Gamma, because there just doesn't seem to be a lot of content in his play, but that's a very slight read. Dunnstral has essentially said nothing; could easily see scum in that spot.

The other ol' game in a search where Acryon used the word "uninspiring"... and as scum
(This is a joke)

Acryon, a skim of your recent ISO at least shows no townreads. It's surprising that you attack me over "not being clear" while you don't seem to have any solid direction to go in yourself, whereas I have been pretty perfectly clear... no?

[acryon]

My big problem with Eve is I just can't make a case based on her play. D1 and today as well has been uninspiring from her, but it's just a lot harder to move on because there's so little there. I frankly have very little reason to believe Eve is town based on her posts, but I just don't know where to start on a case against her.

So I was hiding behind the Copbloc gimmick and otherwise nothing.
Eve's play is uninspiring (I note that you're using this a second time)

Can you explain once more some of your *townreads* so I get a feel for what you look for in town?

Here is a full readslist.
Town: BBmolla, TLDNE
Lean-town: Atarashi, Skitter, Titus, GL
Lean-scum: Auro
Scum: Eve

BBmolla

gave me early townvibes, and that hasn't changed. The thought process feels town. I don't see a scum agenda in his posts.

TLDNE

is similar. I haven't taken much issue with their logic. I haven't always agreed with them, but again nothing in their posts have really pinged me as fueled by a scum agenda.

Atarashi

- Karnage gave me townvibes early on, but ultimately that was weakened by what felt like a lack of effort (NAI I know, but I just would've expected more). Atarashi's entrance has been good. I just don't see scum taking the time to read through and put together a case on someone like me when there are a million other low-hanging fruit.

Skitter

I have been back and forth on. More recent posting I have been on board with. Doesn't seem interested in making friends and finding people to agree with which pings town to me in this game.

Titus

felt like scum early on, especially replacing in for Sauce who gave me little reason to believe was town. After going back and forth with Titus, her thought process feels town. Admittedly I'm not as confident on this one, but her willingness to go down roads that feel difficult strikes me as town.

GL

is very close to null, but I don't want to create a null category. This is the slot I've had the hardest time with. Some things majorly ping me as town and others have majorly pinged me as scum. I'm really not sure here.

Auro

I have spoken on already.

Eve

I just have no reason to really believe is town. I don't think they are scumhunting. I don't think they're working toward progressing reads or the gamestate for town.

[Auro]

It's interesting that you have BBMolla as a top townread and Eve as a top scumread, when I parse their gameplay as pretty similar.

Do you think BBMolla is working towards progressing reads or the gamestate for town?
Do you think BBMolla is scumhunting?

What is Eve's scum agenda?
When you think of an answer, also explain to me why the same agenda does not fit to BBMolla.

[acryon]

It's interesting that you have BBMolla as a top townread and Eve as a top scumread, when I parse their gameplay as pretty similar.

Do you think BBMolla is working towards progressing reads or the gamestate for town?
Do you think BBMolla is scumhunting?

What is Eve's scum agenda?
When you think of an answer, also explain to me why the same agenda does not fit to BBMolla.

BBmolla has posts that seem to indicate to me that he is thinking about the game. Here is a sampling of posts: 265, 273, 507,520, 1658, 1760.

I agree that a cursory glance makes BB and Eve's games feel similar, but if you actually look, you'll see not only effort but thought and original insight in these kinds of posts from BB. Everything from Eve feels a lot more surface-y. They've been pretty similar in terms of activity, but BB's posts actually feel like town thought-process and trying to figure things out; I don't see that from Eve.

[Auro]

1682: Justifies Karnage!town via similar behavior to a recently ended game, notes that Skitter's thoughts feel off
1690: Attempts to justify her feelings there, reaches the conclusion that since it was parallel to her own thoughts, it's not a strong reason
1715: Makes the case that Nom's accusation of Skitter is legitimate if Skitter is familiar with Nom's meta.
1847: Makes the case that locktowning Skitter from D1 VCA is bad.
1956: Notices an inconsistency in my Titus progression and asks me, also says she thinks I'm town.

Why do these feel surfacey?

All of these posts

feel valid and legitimate.

[acryon]

To directly answer your question, Eve's scum agenda is to skate by without questioning things too much, and allow people to townread her for being "too relaxed to be scum". I don't think that applies to BBmolla because he's questioned many things that others are on board with.

Pedit: 1682 and 1690 were both directly answers to questions--I'm not going to give credit there. 1715 is ok. 1847 is barely above the surface. 1956 doesn't help if I think you two could be scumpartners...

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

BBmolla has posts that seem to indicate to me that he is thinking about the game.

O...kay? I've seen some unflattering things said about people's scum capabilities but this may be the worst

-Smart

[acryon]

To add to 1956, it just supports my idea that she's not scumhunting. She points out an inconsistency but then sheeps your vote? Who is she scumhunting there?

[acryon]

BBmolla has posts that seem to indicate to me that he is thinking about the game.

O...kay? I've seen some unflattering things said about people's scum capabilities but this may be the worst

-Smart

Maybe I should have added some modifiers to this, but I mean thinking about the game in the sense that there is an interest in solving it.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I do think I get the type of read you're trying to explain, though. It's just a generic solve-y feel that you can't really give specifics on. I've had those before; they tend to be more indicative of player skill in general than of alignment.

-Smart

[acryon]

This goes without saying, but scum do not "think" about the game the same way town does, because there is nothing for them to solve.

[acryon]

I do think I get the type of read you're trying to explain, though. It's just a generic solve-y feel that you can't really give specifics on. I've had those before; they tend to be more indicative of player skill in general than of alignment.

-Smart

That's possible, but I'm not sure that Eve's posts feel empty because of a lack of skill.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Well, sure. But scum can still produce thoughts that might be similar to what they would think as town, and a lot of times it's hard to tell the two apart.

If you could pick a few of the posts you linked and try to explain why they're towny, that would be good.

-Smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

That's possible, but I'm not sure that Eve's posts feel empty because of a lack of skill.

Or a different playstyle, perhaps. I'm not gonna call myself great at mafia but I am pretty experienced, and my posts get called empty a lot because I have an unusual playstyle.

Also, I don't think empty posts are really a scumtell. Scum have just as much incentive as town, if not more, to put substance in their posts.

-Smart

[Auro]

Answers to questions which were a cause of her stating a stance or voting somewhere. They absolutely count. Dismissing 1956 as valid thought is if your reasoning is that you think we are scumbuddies...

You recognize that one inconsistency doesn't mean they're auto scum, yes? It's possible to find a top townread of yours say something that felt off, and ask them to make sure?

@Smart: While such reads are definitely a thing, I feel like the conclusions of these reads with their confidences feels pretty off from Crayon. He's pushing people for things like "they questioned X slot but also said X is town", or "they pushed Y slot, but didn't have a vote on them", this is ick.

[acryon]

Well, sure. But scum can still produce thoughts that might be similar to what they would think as town, and a lot of times it's hard to tell the two apart.

If you could pick a few of the posts you linked and try to explain why they're towny, that would be good.

-Smart

Sure thing. There are a couple in there that are emblematic of why I think BB is town.

I think 273 is a really good town-thought. Attempting to see if people are just letting scum!you sneak by because of effort.

520 similarly is asking people to re-evaluate their reads. These kinds of things feel very town to me, because they're not driving an agenda as much as they are making each person do something on their own and also challenging popular reads.

Pedit: I agree. I don't think the emptiness of Eve's posts per-se is why I think she is scum. It's the gut feeling of why those posts are empty and how that supports her scum agenda.

[acryon]

Answers to questions which were a cause of her stating a stance or voting somewhere. They absolutely count. Dismissing 1956 as valid thought is if your reasoning is that you think we are scumbuddies...

Well I'm glad we disagree.

You recognize that one inconsistency doesn't mean they're auto scum, yes? It's possible to find a top townread of yours say something that felt off, and ask them to make sure?

@Smart: While such reads are definitely a thing, I feel like the conclusions of these reads with their confidences feels pretty off from Crayon. He's pushing people for things like "they questioned X slot but also said X is town", or "they pushed Y slot, but didn't have a vote on them", this is ick.

I think this is actually a pretty big misrep from you.

[Auro]

Titus, please think deeper about Skitter and Acryon.