Mini Normal 2139: No Flavor Allowed - Game Over

[Auro]

I mean, I'm the guy Looker voted with 2 votes, and Umlaut was voting me, so your two votes constitutes a win anyway.

[Auro]

Looker and Umlaut can still see the light and change their mind.

[Auro]

I wouldn't at all put stock in that sort of thing and yolo vote when the other voter on the wagon is active. The votes would have to be like within seconds of each other.
Without a PT the only way to pull that off is to naturally vote.

[Auro]

You're already assuming there won't be a quickhammer in that scenario. And if Micc votes first, the {Hoc+Micc} universe lets Hoc hammer.
Hoc's lack of presence is a bit worrying.

[Auro]

It's also

incredibly obvious to anyone paying attention at all

that if FB and Micc were going to conspire to frame someone today, it would be me.

Exactly, which is why they wouldn't.

[Auro]

Not at all. I'd re-evaluate just like I did now.
All WIFOM arguments are inherently shitty in that they argue a for the reality of a less probable scenario, but yes - stacked PRs showing us EXACTLY something I believed already is always fishy in LyLo.

[Auro]

Also, they'd know Hoctac was a likely vig from Hoctac's softs and claims.

[Auro]

Umm, you should hold any arguments against me. Maybe I'm having a problem in communication in defining my perspective. If I'm town I would love to change my mind by realizing I'm on the wrong track.

[Auro]

Also, they'd know Hoctac was a likely vig from Hoctac's softs and claims.

HOW WOULD WE KNOW HE IS A REAL VIG?!?!?!?!

Scum Micc having BP, and Hoctac claiming vig a bunch of times.

[Auro]

Me in scum chat with Micc apparently:
Micc: Hoctac is a real vig btw.
Me: What? How?
Micc: He has claimed it a bunch of times. Also I have BP
Me: But no one has died from vig....

(continued)
Micc: Hmm, maybe he's a disloyal vig?
Fire: Aha, you're right!

[Auro]

Honestly, you do deserve a scummy nom even if we win because I caught you.
If Hoctac shoots someone else then swell. Just claim you saw him shooting XYZ.

[Auro]

On a side note, IF the game doesn't end on a Micc/Hoctac lynch, can we all request fast night?

[Auro]

God town players accurately predict good scum play, and therefore are also inherently great scum players, as they have to just emulate that.

[Auro]

Your play deserves a scummy, but sadly for you, I can see through it!

[Auro]

I think I would deserve that scummy if I'm able to lead town to a win in this situation!

[Auro]

As town or scum I always fight till my last breath. As town or scum I'm enjoying this process.

[Auro]

u do u auro, but im done trying to convince u.
if ur scum here u can just die tomorrow. U want to forestall judgement day, that is up to u

Scum Fire realizing I'm not making his game winning hammer.

[Auro]

if auro is the townie in this situation he deadlocked us from being able to actually lynch scum.

If that's the case, tomorrow Hoctac can be lynched, since scum NK. So I'm not going to be the reason for a game loss.

[Auro]

Deadlock meaning no lynch*

[Auro]

I'm trying to convince Umlaut. He's conf biasing. I acknowledged already I might be having a communication problem in establishing why my perspective makes sense to me.

[Auro]

I will have to convince Looker as well, and seeing as they think I am scum with Umlaut, it's going to be a daunting task...

[Auro]

Umlaut = Right.
This is sad.

It's a bit sad that town's probably losing, but happy because it's definitely an entertaining game!

[Auro]

The hole in that theory is that I realize it right when you declare the track result and not much later, and I would rather have just gone ahead with the "slim chance" instead of appearing to bus first and take a U-turn later.

[Auro]

Your arguments are indeed sound and legitimate. Just that they are not correct.

[Auro]

In that universe, in which case would Looker not vote for me tomorrow anyways?

[Auro]

And even then we go to MyLo and not LyLo... So it's not solely dependent on Looker.

[Auro]

You'd just kill Looker?

[Auro]

I know that won't happen. I'm against a NL for multiple reasons anyway.

[Auro]

In which case a No Lynch is only beneficial to whoever's side Looker isn't voting against, as one less vote is required to mislynch, seeing as Umlaut has already wrongly chosen his.

[Auro]

Yes, so if you want consolidation onto Hoctac and Looker isn't giving it, it's better with them just gone. That's my point.

[Auro]

I don't think you would play against your win-con for style points, as trying to lynch me is a risk for you in this scenario. But yes, if that happens I'd be forced to re-evaluate.

[Auro]

Yes, so if you want consolidation onto Hoctac and Looker isn't giving it, it's better with them just gone. That's my point.

looker voting u benefits me if i am scum, no?

Yes but this requires you to successfully lynch me.
If you're town you've already established Hoctac is the safer lynch from your perspective so backtracking and voting me is a bit of a risk, altho now you prolly just can anyway and Umlaut would happily vote me as well.

[Auro]

well ur wrong because i have held back hammer as scum for game ending win for style points.
so joke is on u. Nerd.

Lmao. Which game was this? That's quite evil, but I like it

[Auro]

Well in that case you get "confirmed" for not hammering, here it only provides a little more strength to my belief; Umlaut and Looker may actually just see things for what they are.

[Auro]

Lolol, Oversoul wasn't shouting at you to hammer in your PT?

[Auro]

I'll do a full re-read of the game to prove my theory, after a while.

[Auro]

I don't know how I'm supposed to take "You're wrong" as an adequate argument

I know. I'm doing my best to explain. I won't hold you against it.

[Auro]

Looker, you're feeling as though I'm scum with like, everyone => that must say something, no?

[Auro]

Looker, if you can finally see what I'm seeing, I'll need your help to convince Umlaut as well.

[Auro]

So, uh... I went and checked my role PM again... I'm a Cop, I missed it. :X

[Auro]

Sigh

, I might just be the worst town player ever.

[Auro]

I thought it meant that you all would understand if I couldn't comment on people's Meta (If I'm using this correctly)

I

couldn't

c

omment

o

n

p

eople's Meta (If I'm using this correctly)

See? The crumb.

[Auro]

VOTE: Hoctac

[Auro]

Fast night, guyz.

[Auro]

Finally

You won?

[Auro]

I blame the worm, I should've checked him.

[Auro]

Auro+Fire woohoo

[Auro]

I'm the worst's teammate? He's in this game?

[Auro]

Because I delay a hammer for the lulz? Shouldn't you be proud of me

[Auro]

I care only for my lulz

[Auro]

Pretty sure if game doesn't end, it's Micc+Hoctac and same gambit as earlier.

[Auro]

If game ends, it's Micc+You.

so hoctac shoots his Mafia Scum BP teammate.....for wifom.

Yup!

[Auro]

Scummy nomination incoming

[Auro]

Which anime

[Auro]

You might like to read the last page of the scum PT!
Before Clidd and BS got replaced we were close to getting BS lynched, which would've been very helpful to us.

But noooo, Micc and Fire has to replace in and screw us over.

[Auro]

Our Heroes: Firebringer, Micc, Ame, Looker, brassherald, Quick - (Replace into the game and stay until the end.)

I also stayed!!

[Auro]

I'm just shocked you engaged with me that much tho Firebringer

[Auro]

Only if you nom me for this game's paragon

[Auro]

I enjoyed playing with all of you, btw! I wish I were town with you guys.

[Auro]

Some parts were correct. Given the information, it's always correct play for PRs to individually target within the hood and also town to lynch in hood for the first two consecutive days at least.

[Auro]

I'm not sure why scum aren't given a rolecop or roleblocker at least? Micc's BP was :X

[Auro]

LOL is that even allowed

[Auro]

The Day 4 replacements honestly wrecked scum here. I can't say I'm not proud of myself for deducing the setup but it wouldn't have mattered if I had gotten lynched yesterday.

We had a win path even if you didn't, sans Micc's BP. The plan was to kill off Micc, and have me bus Hoctac and set you up to be the LyLo mislynch. Micc had already established that you were likely scum because of his setup spec of 2:1 scum in:out hood.

Yesterday, if BS was lynched our plan was to simply get Zulfy lynched today (as he was then the perceived scummiest hood member).

[Auro]

No such thing as a mechanical concede, as town can always forget the mechanical play and hand the win to scum. There was no way that was happening here though.

[Auro]

Auro ur one mistake was letting me live. :devil:

We kill you, then Hoctac or I still get lynched, and we kill Looker leading us to Umlaut-Micc-Auro where Micc has an inno on Umlaut, and I doubt Umlaut was going to vote for Micc there

[Auro]

I was essentially breaking a long-established meta rule in this setup.

The main problem was that you had a public review of such a setup where you broke the same meta rule, which means our weapon of "oh, but meta!" WIFOM holds no weight when someone sees that (as Umlaut did).

What's the incentive for Quick

not

to out that information immediately though?

• Informed FV immediately says there is 1+ scum in hood
  
• Town decides to lynch neighbors 1 and 2, leaving 3 and 4 for invests
  
• Invests individually target 3 and 4

This plan works regardless of 1/2/3 scum in hood, and I would always suggest town to follow this plan given information is outed immediately.
And there's no reason for Informed FV to keep the info for long.

[Auro]

Oh yeah, BTW, if we did lynch BS we were planning to accuse Zulfy of scumslipping in the hood for LyLo.

[Auro]

I thought it meant that you all would understand if I couldn't comment on people's Meta (If I'm using this correctly)

I

couldn't

c

omment

o

n

p

eople's Meta (If I'm using this correctly)

See? The crumb.

How could you guys not buy this though

[Auro]

Did u not read my post about congrats on becoming a cop?

Insinuating that I wasn't Cop before. I was always Cop.

[Auro]

@Umlaut: Yup, and I am surprised people didn't buy it even after you linked that review thread. If I were town I wouldn't even bother solving, I'd just consider that solid evidence and vote within the hood till I hit scum.
But my main point was that independent of that, town strategy in the *unknown* case also screws us over

@Ircher: I'd remove the Informed, probably? Because even with a rolecop, the info being outed is the correct play, and my earlier reasoning for individual PR targets within the hood always makes them very vulnerable.

[Auro]

Of course I carry some bias due to the difference in perspective, but I still think it's a solid argument. Klick in the dead thread agreed with it.

[Auro]