lange nonal 227 OHHH!!!! OHHH!!!!! ITS OVER OHHHHHH!!!! OHHH

[word321]

VOTE: Stanley
Nice Pic

[word321]

norskboi, he was agreeing with u, talking about the treecko

[word321]

RQS Questions
1. Are you scum?
2. What are some of your recent games?
3. What is your favorite role?

1. U already now, buddy
2. On my signature, most recent nwb 1999; I dnt think 1997 counts that much
3. VT. Who doesnt like being a living attention seeking bulletproof?

[word321]

Good attitude on bears part, albeit a little bit standard
Votato seems to be moving things somewhat, too
(as far as 3 pages r concerned)
Treecko best initial pokemon

Do u feel somwhat threatened norsk? Perhaps ud like some support on that front? Here, take a vote of trust
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

[word321]

well lts see could every one question wehre how good is your scum game?

my answer is oka good

Never played scum on a forum game, wouldnt be able to answer

[word321]

@stan1ey what mistake? I'm pretty sure they were both trolling in that exchange.

pedit: @hoctac wdym by "he is 2019"

Date joined at the site
Hes saying he have enough experience not to make such a trivial giveaway

[word321]

yeah, trecko has been erratic
Why r u voting norwee?

[word321]

while we r at it, lets try to make communications clean and fluid
the more content we have, the better
if we need to translate every 2 posts, we r looseing possibilities on interactions

[word321]

bruh you just replied me about it

I asked "what mistake" in 78 because I thought they were both trolling. Then I realized that norwee's vote was not based on troll, but I still don't see a mistake

Votatos post was agreeing with him, he mistakenly took it as a post against him

[word321]

Schadd, is it possible for post restrictions on a normal?

[word321]

It is treason then.

Wheres the follow up? U threw the stone, but then u wait? How does this change ur view on the player?

[word321]

Hey, first normal here
No one is born knowing, and there was confusion on the subject

[word321]

dnt thread thin; dnt mix nationalities and insults on the same sentence. it goes against the site rules, even as a joke.

[word321]

in a large game like this, picking some VI to quicklynch isn't a bad idea day 1.

R u refering it aint a bad idea as town or scum?
As tow, I beg to difer; more players means more scum players, more scum players means a wider ability range on scum play, means a better chance to lynch in a nonrandom manner, wich would be the only strong argument aside from asset evaluation for a quicklynch on a VI; a quicklynch not only denies that, but a VI is also a good target for scum to also lynch and end the day.

[word321]

Perhaps ud like some support on that front? Here, take a vote of trust
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

While we’re on the topic of you mentioning Word321.
What is a ‘vote of trust’ supposed to mean?

Sarcasm
U r a suceptible player to suspicion, it seems
That means we get more info of ur slot with a vote, cause u react; so, raw pressure is due
That makes the vote worthwile, moreso with the reaction of other players like treecko
But the vote has already outlived its usefulness by now; there is so it dsnt rly matter if I explain it to u
U seem to be a player worth keeping an eye upon, though

[word321]

yeah sure
however, I am a bit cautious. I don't really see anything too out of the blue with word's current posts compared to his standard town meta

This is both "gratuitous" and was umprompted; theres no reason to do this as scum, and constitutes my first somewhat serious tl.

[word321]

Going with my first gut scum read of the game

VOTE: Word321

I like how this affected the game too, but I wouldnt go as far as stating it is a tl yet. I do want to see how this situation develops.

[word321]

I think I lost track of the votes by now.

At least we got outside lylo

.
A lot of new faces. R yall trying to apparent activity with this?

Only hit page 6 as of now, lamest thing I have seen thus far is the question @mod about post restriction roles being a thing. If they exist in a normal game, are they alignment indicative? Doubtful, unless you want to go way off base and assume out of several post restriction roles, some are town, some are scum, and that is now your voting pool. Like, that is wild.

At least this is

somehing

I can talk about. This is by far an overstretch. There were questions about it; in fact,

if any of u know about it, pls anser the question, cause I still dnt know the answer

. It had NOTHING to do with trecko, or almost nothing; it was a question about the format.
Ive alredy stated this is my first normal game; this feels forced, and is on the "golden range"; the wagon is being formed, and u r in a confortable position of not having initated it nor being in a position of being a decisive vote for the lynch.
VOTE: Madonna

[word321]

thanks for that.

[word321]

Ya r all getting on my nerve. So let me address ur whole "case" on me, as seen from any players perspective upon reading othger ppl:
-1st: Gut readings/indetermined reason (159, 160, 163, 192)
-2nd: Sheeping (163, 186) (The distintion can be quite blurry)
-3rd: Meta (176, 231)
-4th: Specific commentaries: (191)
-5th: Tone read (218)

Of course, the actual reason to passing such a judgement may be a mix and match of the above, but that is what we can objectively observe.

From these, the 1st is hard/impossible to address, to some extent. Go to the 3rd for something.

The second directly lacks content, and should simply be pointed out.

The third IS valid; farsides post, for example, was actually correct to some extent. Traditionally Ive introduced myself on the 3 games Ive played with my UTC (wich now is in my signature, if u havent noticed) and saying Im southamerican. This, again, is a fair observation; I havent actually introduced myself here, and my tone aint as friendly as, lets say, 1997, wich is probably what she read.
Here r some points to be taken into account for:

1. This is not a newbie game; comparatively speaking, Im probably the least experienced player here. No reason to actually try hard to help anyone on that regard.
2. No one never bothered to actually spontaneously introduce themselves until now; henceforth I dnt bother either, at least in a large with so many players, specially considering there was already enough activity when I posted (to 9-player standards).

And about the "nice/helpful player" style, I somewhat dropped it in favor of a more aggro style; an ISO at ANY point of 1999 can show that, specially cause I arrived there after experiencing 1997, particularly awful on my playstyle.

And about treckos comment, I can only speculate on what he actually read, and how. My bet is he is basing it on my response to previous wagons: "would he act like he is now?"

So, since u r metaing me, Ill point some illustrative events on previous games to illuminate on how I actually see the game (I know this is kind of biased, but hey, accusations on the past, ansers on the past; see by urself and judge it to ur liking):

1.On my style/tone:
1. On my approach to pushes:
--My push on flame, wich is as early as 6 days ago, on newbie 1999; it began on Post 536 and "ended" on 560. It is similar to my push on NorwegianBoy on this game 64; first the push, then an explanation on it, directly to both the person involved and the rest of the playerbase.
--My push on Sea Urchin on the same game, from 65 to 80 also follow the same format stated above.

The reason for such an aproach, specially for an explanation in the end, is simple; it lands the conception of ur observations on town, and helps the player himself improve on that bit, observe that bit, or feel threatened by that bit. More on NorwegianBoy in particular at the end of the post.

2. On my view of the game/reaction to my wagon:
--Reaction to lookers push on Newbie 1999 on Post 47.
--Reaction to Kyoukos push on Newbie 1999 on Post 198 and Post 234
--Reaction to Maras push on Newbie 1992 on Post 1460
--View on the game on GWs wagon, newbie 1992 on Post 1055
--In general, 1999 is a good game to see how I valuate info, how I see interactions by themselves, and the way I trat votes, specially on the first part of Post 280 (if u omit the second part, wich was a blunder)

In general, I try to point out specific arguments done against my person, and try to discern the mentality of other ppl through that where there is content to work with (wich is te case of this post, if u havent noticed); that was the case with kyoukos and maras push on the above posts; But that is when the push may be actually harmful or have some actual content in them; lookers reaction is more akin to an "empty" wagon (wich is this, for the most part, except the issues directly addressed). Also, the post on GW actually shows more my mentality on the matter of the possibility of being killed; we play to maximize possibilities of town winning, it has nothing to do with surviving to see it through. That is rly overvaluated. Hence, on a wagon, it is more important to weighting the players in it with their actions and the arguyments transactioned rather that "just" defending; it can be an opportunity for everyone, me being the target or not. For instance, this has been the most informative event so far in the game, and this is just the first day!


The 4th point was already addressed at some point; this was at first the only thing I could actually answer.

The 5th was addresed with the 3rd point. Yes; this wagon is good in a sense. No; Im not changing my mind. No; its not lamist to either think or point that.


Overall, Objectively speking not even 80% of the voters actually account for their vote. Notably, farside HAS been consistent with her suspiciousness; she has metadived for answers, and that makes me have a tl on her. Its not a conftown of course, cause she actually playing the game being comparatively better to the rest dsnt actually warrant her alignment, but her actions by themselves r actually more towny than scum in nature.

Trecko can or cannot fall on that cathegory depending on his motives for suspiciousness, and I would like if he pointed that out.

Ive already said what I had to said about both madonna and bear.

And about u, NorwegianBoy, if I had to place my chips somewhere, Id say ur simply a town in a deadtunnel. Dnt take it the wrong way, pal; but its easily observable when u go as far as ignoring the potential menace of other player, or adding "imaginary" value to the opinion of a player with 0 content; u find it "plausible" only cause it agrees with u, when objectively speaking there is nothing; nothing new, nothing actually related for the reasons he thinks that way, only raw speculation that u r filling. Thats some kind of bias that comes easier when one dsnt have access to priviledged information. I simply think u r persecuted; the most harmed person for that kind of attitude is u, bear that in mind.

And towards the rest of the spontaneous generation band, it varies form case to case; 7po actions, for example, can lead ppl to taking account of their actions, and he was willing to do the same after that, wich is good; he also have some content of sorts. But we cannot let ppl who actually lurk to do so freely, and it impress me no one has as much as directed their questions towards any of the multiple players who simply r there; sure, this is day 1, so it is not as certain; but being "simply there" shouldnt be a viable choice.

And there u go, a case out of thin air. So go ahead NorwegianBoy, and tell me:

What r the so many called motives u see for such a big wagon to remain without the need to question the judgement or the intention of the integrants?

Ill admit it; I DID get somewhat angry with the last posts.

[word321]

Just a few more questions word.
Why was madona's vote the one that set you off? Have you ever seen a wagon just form with little reason's before in any of your games?
I'm going to touch a little about what I caught that bugged me.

In post 172, word321 wrote:

In post 162, midwaybear wrote:
yeah sure
however, I am a bit cautious. I don't really see anything too out of the blue with word's current posts compared to his standard town meta


This is both "gratuitous" and was umprompted; theres no reason to do this as scum, and constitutes my first somewhat serious tl.



It's not something I have seen you really say in your other games. It does read very forced as far as commentary goes.

About Madona:
There was a little misunderstanding on my part, it seems; the first time Ive read his comment on 191, I read it as "

Lamest thing ive seen so far (in my life, as in an hyperbole)

", but upon rereading it I see he meant "

Lamest thing Ive seen so far (as in up to the current state of the game)

". The first had a more alarmist nature; regardless of the above, I found particularly weak and forced on either case, as I was only confirming an info. What would I supposedly achieve with that? Specially if said info resulted in being false, wich he seems to have known beforehand.
And as for why that and not something else, it was scummy by its own right and was palpable, and felt particularly out at the time.

Regarding other similar wagons:
2 early wagons pop up in my mind. The first was the wagon on Mochi on 1999, a L-1 wagon on a 1-commentary player in a game with a rate of development of 1post/6hours; it easily crumbled afterwards and lead to the first real developments of the game.
The second was the wagon on me/clidd on 1997. This was heavily aided by outside influences of the game, as I had been force-replaced. It was almost entirely a tvt, and devolved in a fullblown stampede deadtunel wich would later shown to be on a jailor, and would monopolize the state of the game afterwards, even after D1. In this case, I havent practically participated in this, mind u; the full extent of it was on Clidd, my replacement of the game. I bet Votato still has PTSD on this, as he was one of the main proponents of the wagon.
The above was one of the main reasons for the wall post, specifically target to norwee (albeit to everyone else too, of course), cause I felt his tone similar to players there. But it seems he is right when he says Im just wasting my time on him.

Regarding midwaybear:
He had access to priviledged info; he knew without metadiving what had happened on 1997. He shared it when he could have withholded the info. Not only that; he was scum on 1997, and he was kind of complacent and somewhat distant on the whole wagon on clidd, so there is a starking contrast there (albeit I was just superficially following the game since my replacement). This by itself aint enough, again, to be conftown, but as far as a townlean goes, it is certainly one, to be remarked among other players.

PD: So many things happened while writing this

[word321]

oh

TRECKO MY BOY WHAT HAVE U DONE!
How can I call u trecko now?
Turtwig still best initial pokemon too.

[word321]

this is contradictory

He was addressing my inquiry on my wallpost, thats why it begins with "word, "

[word321]

actually after checking some meta the word wagon is fine

I don’t like this

VOTE: Hoctac

Why dnt u like this? Whats ur take on Trecko?

[word321]

His meta defense made no sense. He said that he found you to be natural in your past games, but then said that you were less natural in this game. First of all, most people found you to be more formal in your posting style not natural. Second, if you are playing different from your meta, how can he like your defense?

Thanks for that. I do agree with trecko being somewhat volatile there; but it is not in Trecko im interested in.
Gobbled have 2 posts, and we need some commitment on his part: specially cause one of them was a high impact post, the fake mason claim.
Ive seen this executed both by actual masons and by scum, not only town; it is deceptive in nature, but in this case the wifom can mostly be directed to scum, as long as it remains uncontested, if town motivated.
But here is the thing; every time I see it executed it actually serves more of a fish to players; questioning players become instantly suspicious, and causing a lot of bickering in the process. And most of the time (and for obvious reasons, 99% when executed by scum), it contributes to tvt.
That doesnt make doubting of the claim any less suspicious, nor the possibility of gob being scum is that high, cause he doesnt have anything else; so ascertaining his position on this matter is essential to understanding the whole thing. We need more gob, not only farside and bob.
We also need more Nahdia while we r so feel free to manifest on the matters at hand.

[word321]

If word said that madonna's vote is easily the weakest vote on his wagon, that's scummy in itself because my vote was as weak if not weaker. As such, I'm okay with leaving it on word.

Their case is simply bad, ur case was nonexistant :^)
U came and voted for the votes sake, while they came and voted in an alarmist way. Votes by emselves r not particularly bad D1, and being inactive early on may be bad, but not as scummy as adding wood to the fire.
(actively inactive while we r at it; no one is 24 hr next to the pc, but when they r and they say nothing, its

bad

indee.)
On the other hand, the iso on Madonna is bad; 217, 337 and 341 in particular were kind of off with each other on the manatee thing, specifically.

[word321]

It's really weird how he is fine that someone was wrong about his meta and pushes it aside like it is nothing.

Word: Why is a player scummy for fake claiming mason to you? What advantage does gob have for the claim when you are lynched and the leading wagon day 1?

Treckos evolution is quite interesting; from joining the wagon from immediatly quitting from bears observation, questioning the wagon multipe times and joining the wagon again after metadiving himself.
From what I get, he is a somewhat volatile player, from the development above. It does contrast with his recent fixation on Mantee.
But from the antecedents on both Norwee and my pushes, he seems to have given some values on tonereading on those occasions; Norwee was townread for that reason, while I was both townread and scumread from its derivatives.
On the other hand, the push on Manatee was made on a "solid" lead. There is also the component that the lead was digged out by trecko himself, wich would make it more valid on his eyes (he cant decept himself, can he?), so it may be the reason manatee stucked out, and may justify why he was asking for a case on me. From his other reads, I can only guess he toneread Albert and Leadread Madonna.
So overall, I can understand his game; about the meta, well, again I can only speculate, but it is still plausible, for the sheer difference of ppl btw games. Ppl can make meta mistakes, and I am having a hard time with the sheer amount of players to revise and keep tracks upon, wich might translate in a less fluid style.

And on the gob/bob/farside affair:
From what I see from Bob, and what I saw on that interaction, he has played a pretty standard game, asking ppl actually good questions and all that, and his push on u, while its true it was aggresive, I wouldnt mark directly scummy. I didnt rly liked his tone, but that by itself aint a big of an indicative; it does serve as an antecedent, so he is nullish for now. On ur front, farside, I dnt think ur reaction was the greatest to tell the truth; his questions without good answer EXACTLY bc there is no reason whatsovere to question a claim, no matter wheter its true or fake. There r rly more motivations to do this as scum than as town. But alas, Ive seen too many ppl fall for that before; u being a supposedly good player is what worries me about it.
And on Gob, gob was contingent at the time and needed more attention. Ive already said before, but usually fake claims r made mostly by town (like u pointed out), but can be executed by scum, and he had no antecedents; he is still null all the way. So it can be fairly illustrative to have a grasp on his playstyle.

ninjaed by farside (for once, its relevant).

[word321]

No, only info in the game so far
Have u played with trecko before?

[word321]

I mean, what is this saying? If votes aren't the wood, what is? I don't get it.

And who is trecko?

Reasoning, consistency of mantality and ultimate benefits of an action as either alignment

U, for example, just used ur vote with an investigative purpose (wich may or may not have been originally motivated as such); such an action can come from either alignment, but is plausible and compatible with town
Unless Madonnas action was also some sort of test reaction, it affected the game in a scum favoring way, not bc of my inherent alignment, but bc it doesnt decentrly contribute to the reasoning on the case in a reasonable way, and is plausible with a hidden agenda behind it
Doubting aint bad, the thingis the way the doubt manifests, its naturality and how it affects the game.

Trecko=Sailor Moon=Turtwig=Hoctac (He rly likes switching profile pictures)

[word321]

Ok. Ive had enough time to study the case against Bob.
From the games posted, we shouldnt rly consider the one from april 2019 and july 2019 (he had just gotten into the site; it would be weird for his tone to not rly change).
Team Mafia 2020 had essentially different rules from this one, so it makes sense to play for em, and lacks confidence to be relevant in that way.
The 2 most relevants are, as yall have already commented upon, Mini Normal 2106, and Mini Normal 2122. I dnt think there is enough confidence from neither of the 2 to say he played a radically different style from neither. I felt a somewhat more commented questions on 2106 than 2122 (scum vs town), but that doesnt apply here; the "kind of" aggresisive push on farside remains the only contrast on that regard.
I dnt think that posting so many games taking into account the above would be helpful in that regard; its a kind of gallop in some sense. But Im not exactly good with reading other ppls meta outside games, and neither practice it frequently, so I dnt know if the other games may have some value by emselves.
What I do find kind of scummy is bobs defense, to a point. From what I understood, currently believes that, under his perception, farside "overflowed" the scumrange; ok, maybe he rly thinks that. But the other interesting thing is that he is acting the "trapmaster" here, with plenty commentaries with ulterior motives, to cause reactions. As far as I saw, that is a starking difference to the above games, at least in the earlysh phase. Not that that by itself cant be done by town; but it is a contrast nonetheless.

Now he looks more like a Vetinari

.
Pedit: Holy shit how can I write a case when new things come so fast (not that it is bad, only for my mental health)

[word321]

gob, u just did AGAIN a low profile high impact post on 675. If no one noticed, of course.
So, this is becoming more useful:

VOTE: Bob
If u can, pls link previous experience with reaction posts and defence to wagons.

[word321]

VOTE: nahdia

word and nahdia could have easily planned to l-1 and hammer quickly one after the other in their mafia chat

It would probably have been easier if neither u nor norwee voted twice, wich underflowed the votes on the wagon upon readjustment, dnt u agree?

[word321]

AHHh
So many things
I will be short this time:
1. I think we can trust 7pos judgement on this.
2. The point of searching other ppl is good. The point of not lynching the most likely scum instead is shitty, at best.
3. Im kind of doubting farside, for the whole bob thing; Ive already pointed out my concerns there. I also think Gob has been given a free license on all of this, and would go there on a green Nahdia (wich is just another motive to lynch her). I am willing to compromise on a NDMath, cause his ISO is just that bad.
4. Im pretty sure Norsk boi is just town, and midway has acted strange; I dnt know what r the odds of acting strange as either scum nor town on his case, though. It needs attention.
5. We want, no, we NEED a votecount.

Ninjaed by madonna.

what?

[word321]

I don't have the ingredients I need to scumhunt because everyone in this game has been so gung ho on bob and nahdia. I try to build some bandwagons to look back on in the future and what do I get? People posting in all caps and shutting down discussion. I'm not just thinking about today's lynch, I'm thinking about the rest of the game.

Well lets see madonna made a case on word but didn't vote there, which I found odd. She didn't say much about nahdia.
I think NDmath is scum based on his unvote and not even questioning the claim by nadhia. He is following others and actively lurking.
Those not pushing nahdia have caught my attention a bit more then those pushing. Then you have the copycats like stanly and gobble.
Those are my notes thus far.

The pushes for Nahdia and midwaybear dominate now, and support for a word321 wagon is lacking. You can be the change you want to see happen. But if you need me to lead you, alright.

VOTE: word321

On the surface, Nahdia is a great lynch. The quickhammer yesterday was bad, but unless you are tracking the vote count religiously, it was actually hard to follow (and my initial reason for not voting immediately upon joining the game), and no one helpfully claimed L-1. Her claim today is bad in both role and target in a questionable way. It is useless in a scum capacity, and her admitting to targeting the nightkill is a shot against her. If Nahdia's scum, what does she get out of one more day by bussing midwaybear that is a good scum move? She loses her buddy, then she loses herself. That is two of our lynches well-spent on scum (a big loss for them), versus her one death today and a more ambiguous future for midwaybear because town is a fickle beast (one versus two, better). A good lynch, but maybe we can do better.

I wanted to like anything about midwaybear's gameplay, so I took a better look, and I found out two things: I hate it, and not all of it is bad. There are few words for caution, suggestions that we take it slow, and a willingness to question assertions; these are things I normally like. On the other hand, all of that is tangled deep between so much sheeping and a lack of defense for the mindset behind it all that it hurts. I wanted to find a reasonable defense here to help make my word321 case feel better, but honestly I cannot. I have been trying to post with more courtesy, so this is all I got: this player needs experience, as town or scum. Lynchable as all get out.

For a post about me u sure talk a lot about Nahdia and midway, dnt u think?

[word321]

I don't have the ingredients I need to scumhunt because everyone in this game has been so gung ho on bob and nahdia. I try to build some bandwagons to look back on in the future and what do I get? People posting in all caps and shutting down discussion. I'm not just thinking about today's lynch, I'm thinking about the rest of the game.

Well lets see madonna made a case on word but didn't vote there, which I found odd. She didn't say much about nahdia.
I think NDmath is scum based on his unvote and not even questioning the claim by nadhia. He is following others and actively lurking.
Those not pushing nahdia have caught my attention a bit more then those pushing. Then you have the copycats like stanly and gobble.
Those are my notes thus far.

The pushes for Nahdia and midwaybear dominate now, and support for a word321 wagon is lacking. You can be the change you want to see happen. But if you need me to lead you, alright.

VOTE: word321

On the surface, Nahdia is a great lynch. The quickhammer yesterday was bad, but unless you are tracking the vote count religiously, it was actually hard to follow (and my initial reason for not voting immediately upon joining the game), and no one helpfully claimed L-1. Her claim today is bad in both role and target in a questionable way. It is useless in a scum capacity, and her admitting to targeting the nightkill is a shot against her. If Nahdia's scum, what does she get out of one more day by bussing midwaybear that is a good scum move? She loses her buddy, then she loses herself. That is two of our lynches well-spent on scum (a big loss for them), versus her one death today and a more ambiguous future for midwaybear because town is a fickle beast (one versus two, better). A good lynch, but maybe we can do better.

I wanted to like anything about midwaybear's gameplay, so I took a better look, and I found out two things: I hate it, and not all of it is bad. There are few words for caution, suggestions that we take it slow, and a willingness to question assertions; these are things I normally like. On the other hand, all of that is tangled deep between so much sheeping and a lack of defense for the mindset behind it all that it hurts. I wanted to find a reasonable defense here to help make my word321 case feel better, but honestly I cannot. I have been trying to post with more courtesy, so this is all I got: this player needs experience, as town or scum. Lynchable as all get out.

For a post about me u sure talk a lot about Nahdia and midway, dnt u think?

[word321]

oh, hte internet
Either way, Im fine going unto the unexplored:
VOTE: NDMath

[word321]

Im tired of defending myself, bear. Evidence is in the thread. If despite anything yall just call me scum, just do so; if u have REAL questions, ask them; but lets just drop the read x/read y and do somehing productive already.
Town has been bickering for like 5 pages on. Or scum, dnt know, dnt care. Its antitown either way. Nahdia is obv the best course.
I want light on players I havent seen. I know Norwee, farside, have aquired some insight on albert, madonna is here, nahdia, u, etc; but who de heck is NDMath? Who the heck is Gob?
We already got our lynch for the day, so lets just do somethin productive.
Ninjaed by votato.

[word321]

oh, hte internet
Either way, Im fine going unto the unexplored:
VOTE: NDMath

where does this vote come from?

Dnt like his iso. I agree with farside. Also dnt like the bear/nahdia transition, added with the early tr on nahdia. All that can be even understandable, but that is adding info. I want his take.
I also want to see how farside takes it while we r at it.

[word321]

Bruh it seems like you are chainsaw defending.

Just looked into this. R u impliying im defending farside? Of all things?

[word321]

whats bad in the iso?

More like what there isnt. Do u see anything besides nominal reads?
He mostly says "those ppl r town"; "those ppl r scum"; at most "I like x post".
But most of his posts (sometimes just votes) r like his last one, "Farside is setting off multiple alarm bells for me". Why? What r the reasons for ur statements?
Why do u read bear?
It feels he only adds to wagons without explicitely contributing to the purpose of one (that is, exploration or lynchcasing). But I wouldnt know. Again, I want a real take this time.

[word321]

Ok. So:
-Norwee

Spoiler:

My gut ye;;s town, from the beginning of the game until now; I havent seen at any particular moment that I remember an instance that made him stand above the others on any commentary all the way until Nahdias claim (at wich point, his attitude did ping something). I dnt feel like rereading 178 posts on detail, and Im only willing to go after this if a strong case is made from events involving him.

What can I say? His pick has pocketed me. And that Polka is a jewel.

-7Po

Spoiler:

Had an active game until now, and I liked how he has reacted on Nahdias case; his criteria seemed pretty legit. Im willing to trust this slot. Nahdia green could change things somewhat, as it is not unheard of scum faking desperation.

-Madonna

Spoiler:

To some sense, they are

weird

; their ISO is otherwise nonstanding

except explicitely

by their read on me; from what I understand from their earliest iteration of the push on 879, it STILL comes from entirely early game reasons;

wrong reasons

:
(a. my early game is filler and not reads
b. me reacting to his comment and not farsides pinged wrong
c. the early post about the possibility of a postrestricted hoctec
d. my wall post is "defensive".
a. is simply wrong, as the whole push heavily developed my reads on madonna, norwee, farside and midwaybear, and indirectly developed on other more inactive components, and Im pretty sure I did put light into that and pointed that out at some point
b. it is partly true, but it is not weird his comment did ping as scum among the others, and I did read farside on the whole thing, so I dnt understand the qualm about it
c. for gods sake, a mistake related to EXPERIENCE is scum indicative in such a hard way in your book for u to keep tabs 800 posts without any further development of opinion? what would be my intentions with this?
d. funnyly enough, the wall post address everything pointed out, and seems to keep pointing. im pretty sure it was necessary at the time to stop things going into a quicklynch or monopolizing the game with the first real strong sr with norwee, and the wagon already netted everything we were going to get at that point).
I would wagon them

only

to get answers as to what has kept him scumreading me so much on the entire game without further input from his part nor any actual change on his read on me.

-Gob

Spoiler:

I rly dnt like his late game on D1; from his defense on votato (if u can call that a defense) to his push on bob, and the mason claim; everything pings bad. Although somewhat argumented on bobs push, votatos defense was terrible, in the sense that he doesnt give reasons outsidde of sorting for that; In general, a lot of questions (wich is good), but almost no development on reads.
I lsomewhat like his improvement on today, but he still needs to explain a lot of his thinking. We can begin with his read on votato and bear.

-Albert

Spoiler:

Lol, this guy wrote a page on the book, in like 21 days ago. Go check it out and compare it to his play, cause it is LITERALLY his most recen iteration on the game.
Ill be frank: I dnt know how to read illogical rampage. He seems like one of those experienced players that simply r here. What I can say is that I havent liked his D2 game; organizing town is good, considering purposely not Nahdia is

bad

; but I dnt wrap my head around this player. Would like to see against the ropes.

-Votato

Spoiler:

I dnt like his involvement on Bobs wagon (or his lack of; 497 to 701; this last one is an actual formal scumtell according to the same guy from the chainsaw defense, but I dnt rly buy that to a definitive degree), nor his unexplained doubt on norwee D2, but otherwise I think its true he claims to be buisier this time around and overall I like his activity, not a player I would go after.

-Midwaybear

Spoiler:

His posts ping bad. The problem with this slot is that there is a consistent way to treat him as scum today; even his dealing with Nahdia, from hate to defensiveness, can be explained in more than one way; either delaying Nahdia can help him get a player whos suspiciousness will remain a constant so he can shield as scum, or he can be scum partner with Nahdia if she ends up red. Mainly bc he initiated with a good read (705) and eventually changed tones after Norwees 729 (from 733, to 750, wich stated his official instance on the roleclaim, 798, 800 to 916, to 932). I could rly continue here; but it is easy to see that his policy with Nahdia is flexible enough to rotate btw distancing and defense, while attacking 7po and norwee, wich were the main aggresors. He didnt place nahdia on his list on 986, and radically changed his instance towards 7po on 989.
Overall, again, there is enough flexibility and motivation to think bear is constantly "riding the wave". This is one of the few slots where my intent is not exploratory, but actually scumread. (Cause, if u havent notice, I dnt exactly sr every person I push). The wagon has given enough evidence on this player to make a statement as such.

-Aloratom

Spoiler:

Im waiting for his "more later" rn. Otherwise, his game is not specifically bad, but as with gob and NDMath, lacks reasoning at all. I want reasons from this player too.
His 871 Ive found kind of pointless, buts that not exactly indicative (unless Nahdia flips green, but even then, its still too few). I cant rly develop this further.

-Stan1ey

Spoiler:

Something picked my interest on this slot at its due time; and that was 482.
The thing about 482 is it is wifom infucing in some ways; the argument is something akin to "ppl put too much weight on metareads, it is clear bob is aware of his meta", "Farside didnt cherry pick the meta cause that would be too easy to find as scum", "bob didnt say she was doing that... but he did say it, twice".
There r some real issues on this. Firs and foremost, a technical one; "that argument is dumb cause he knew u would use it" is a terrible kind of wifom (or bias, etc); u r judging the effectiveness of an argument and basing it on the defense of the oponent after said argument was used; there is no reason to think anyone is prepared beforehand for a meta argument, and there was no reason to think at the time that bob was scraping a defense out of his meta without further analyzing it (Im betting on him not reading said meta, and my vote accepting the meta was not incriminatory by itself at the point farside used it was on 566); but ok, it can come from a personal appreciation. But the second one, on farside? Thats a heaavy handwave. Its saying "its so dumb to do that it cant be truth". Without further analysis, it is impossible to make such an aseveration, and it is a "gratuitous" defense to farside and attack to bob on that regard.
At the time, I didnt particularly sr farside, so it came as a quirk; I myself read bobs meta from farside, and didt find anything particularly incriminating to bob at the time farside (my qualm was his defense, or the way it manifested, and it came later; more on that on farside read). But reenacting it from now, it makes more sense as a scum strategy. I also thing the way he treated Nahdias wagon was more out of pressure than otherwise logic, and that is always a bad indicator. Otherwise, this player dsnt ping wrong in other regards.
So, I would say this players alignment depends heavily on farsides, and he is part of one of the possible solves of the game.

-NDMath

Spoiler:

I used to not have much on this player. After his last intervention, some things pinged; more specifically:
1. His reads r quite liberal (like not remembering why u sr a player, after all that lurking? r u here?)
This is not exactly incriminating, as this is more akin to lazy (either lazy town or lazy scum)
But RLY more importnatly:
2. The rule of 4
Im pretty sure ppl have commented on the possibility of 2 scum teams, or serial killers present. There dsnt even need to be any vigs, and no one ever said anything about 4 scum. Now, I dnt know if it is statistically more relevand or not, but this arises multiple questions:
a. How many Large normals have u played before?
b. How was the scum/town composition of those normals?
Either way, I also leave the question open as the plausability of 4 ppl or not is rly that greater, as such a specific number is downright weird.
I depend on those questions to make a more definite statement.

-Farside

Spoiler:

Living headache.
Aaaah. This player cause me PROBLEMS, some bigger than others:
First of all, Farside is sharp as a knife when it comes to questions. Those r rly good. I myself must recognize it is one of my worst qualities in the game; I even learn from her style.
The problem is that farside is either at the wrong side of things on very specific problems, or she is simply scum. The first ping was on farside/bob. Yes, it kind of is an overstretch, as it ended badly and farside just initiated it; but from here, 2 things pop out:
1. The attack on bob was overly defensive in nature for his questions. Maybe Im overthinking it, but at the time, I found them reasonable to some dergree for placing pressure on a player who did something bad, and not exactly on a manipulative nature. I think I pointed this out, but I may be mistaken.
2. And this is a problematic one; I dnt usually metaread other players that much (blv it or not, I base most of my reads on things ingame or previous knowledge); but as far as I am aware, from the list of games farside pointed out, I couldnt find a single relevant one that could point to a scum Bob at the time.
I may take my time here to further develop this, acuse farside asked for it; what Ive found on those games, is that bob played his usual game

until he began defending on ur accusations

; his particular attitude of placeing "traps" with his commentaries is what contrasted to me, cause it has motivations as scum to do as, cause u can plant seeds on other players and can "play along" with ur attacker on that front, and gobs interest on the wagon pinged wrong, so I wanted him to develop a case on bob to get some info from there too. Since bob was showing reactions to attacks, I found it a good idea to increase the wagon. But that came after ur commentary on his meta on the timeline of events; thats what pings me wrong.
And again, since Im not good metaing myself, I cant rly develop it if u genuinely thaught that about his meta, or if was rly about adding weight to the accusation.
The second thing that pinged me is the step back farside has taken at the time, and another step back when I went to NDMath; as far as Im aware of, u urself said u r a player who usually dies on the first 3 games; wouldnt that give u a sense of urgency on solving the game? And otherwise, u did act on questions and the such, and those were indeed accurate. So why mentioning that as an excuse?
The third thing that offset me about farside is how she purposely ignore some things. U literally repeated my point on 978 on 994 and 995, the intent of my push was explicitely exploratory as I said (so there is no reason to go for the scumread, as if claiming that is actual the case), and yet u say u dnt understand my point on 982.

So overall, this is shitty; cause to assume anything about farside, I need to think she is either someone who is usually good but falls off sometimes (like being way better than me on the meta on Bob to some degree, and failing at the same time to notice his towness, or purposely ignoring my commentaries) or being rly good most of the time, but placing small elements on her read that would guide town to the wrong ppl (considering her case on bob was rather paper, and those small details on me).
Right now Im trusting the latter for the evidence avaible; its a headache either way.
good sinergy with stanley for partnery. Not good with midwaybear. Any of this slots can give insight here, and here can give insight on ny other slots.

-Nahdia

Spoiler:

Let me put it this way: Nahdia ended up as one of the most scum reads players (or I imagine that, for how things developed) D1. After coming back, an inquisition is formed with the real intent of just lynching Nahdia.

So unless there is some idiot on the chain of events that scucceded D1, I think its pretty safe to lynch Nahdia.

Otherwise, on a green Nahdia, it is pretty factible so go search on her wagon. Otherwise, lets just lynch this player.

Im rly, rly, RLY late for my classes, this is a busy week, and I must go, those r my official reads; I think it was necessary, but I cant rly develop an aftermatch of relations btw players other than those explicitely stated; it took time to write my mind and to explore and fill the missing slabs here and there.
Ive already missed the one at 14:00.

[word321]

And i didn't know i was a headache.

ow
its a headache induced by being better than me in a lot of aspects of mafia, and the constant readjustments i must make on otherwise towny things based on that to understand the game
it should be taken as a compliment!

[word321]

His 871 Ive found kind of pointless, buts that not exactly indicative (unless Nahdia flips green, but even then, its still too few). I cant rly develop this further.

Pointless?

VOTE: word

theres too few to develop on, as in ur slot
and with pointless, i meant im pretty sure we rnt allowed to quote pms (or any sensible info, etc), and i dnt know how strict it is regarding translitations
even if it wasnt the case, the fact we cant directly quote can induce instead paraphgrases (i dnt rly know if this is the correct word in english, its what google said)
so it wasnt a point in that regard (only in an hypothesis of adding fuel to the fire, wich clearly was not the case)
didnt mean to insult anyone

[word321]

actually, it effectively was the case she was a voyeur, so it rly ended up being the case (only for the wrong side)

[word321]

Albert
votato, word321
aloratom, popo
stan1ey, Nahdia*
norwee, midway, gobble
Madonna, farside22

*Ignoring claim.
The only actually scummy thing nahdia has done is quickhammer, and there were multiple people there several minutes later who didn't realize it was a hammer. The claim has a chance of being confirmed or confirming someone else is another reason I want to leave them alive longer.

pal, u need to update this like rn
either way, why did u vote nahdia while we r on the matter?

[word321]

i mean, from my pov there was progress; there was a wagon on ur slot, u began talkin more...

[word321]

no hidden pressure, rest assured on that

[word321]

paraphgrase

paraphrases*

[word321]

well, ill wait for player reactions
tomorrow ill keep checking
too late here

[word321]

norwee fucked up big time
dnt worry, norwee; i fcked up in worse situations

---

overall, i think alberts justification fits

too

well
he couldnt have gone to nahdia on d1, cause he is even; he went to stanley, a person he had shown suspiciousness upon; and he preserved nahdia, but with knowledge he could have confirmed or detracted her role information that same night.
so overall, i think its at a point where its hard to pull off that one in such a gratuitous way, considering he wasnt in real danger.
the info hypothesis maybe was an overread, but its not like its implausible.

on the other side, stanley "got pulled" into the situation, and claimed a role thats insanely useful for scum, and would have rejected an info gathering on nahdia; so as scum he is either claiming another role wich would add to the info hypothesis on that sense, or he is not scum (a role

blocker

would be more useful to gather a claim on norwee, but a rolestopper can gather claims indirectly by everyone who actually tried to target norwee; since he himself targeted norwee, that means he think he is an obvtown, wich adds to the hypothesis of hunting defensive roles). Im kind of on the fece on the plausability of a roleblocker; a roleblocker, balance dictates, must have other defensive roles with blocking capabilities, cause if that was not the case, a defensive chain of unkillable confirmed towns would be able to form upon revealing one of them. so it fits an alien.

ultimately, upon loss evaluation, I think the cop is more important (albeit this point is moot with the lack of another protection role), cause i think the roleblocker is more "killable" from the above (and the presence of another defensive role may indicate the ausence of other ones). of course, its hard to think of the cop surviving; but if there is an odd protection role, it can bait a kill, and if is something like a doc, he can still perform his work one last time.

Overall, its such a bad idea as scum to do, that id go with a town albert scum stanley. we have at least one scum, and this situation also inclines to the one who initiated things.

[word321]

since he himself targeted

allegedly under the hypothesis, if that was not clear; the important think is the mentality

[word321]

think

thing

[word321]

wait, circulat hought:
why would he hunt defensive roles with an event alien dead?
but then, claiming one as scum would mean he still think its possible
but then it is more probable as town; but that still means he think its possible
wich goes to the begining

[word321]

main guidelines(as in gut):
-alberts claim is an horrible idea with so many players if he is scum; stanley got pulled into this; so overall that inclines to albert
main guidelines (claim evaluation):
-alberts claim fits urs; it also perfectly fits everything up to that point on his game, so we would need to think he manages to pull such a claim, on an uncalled situation, and fitting everythin perfectly
-on the other hand, stanleys claim fits the alien, cause rolestoppers cant have a doctor or something to do a healing chain and be "immortal townies"; on the other hand, it goes to an excess of defensive roles. the role is good material for baits, though, cause if ppl got blocked trying to heal the at most apparently under his perception most townread player at the time, they could claim; but theres a hole on that hypothesis (see above)
-upon loss evaluation, it is more convenient to town to have a cop if there is an odd defensive role, cause it can bait kills, and there r less probabilities of having a healer if we have a rolestopper (those would be 3 defensive roles)

overall, things fit better with an albert actually being honest, and r more convenient overall.
i do want to hear full perceptions of the game from both slots.

[word321]

Theres something thats been bothering for a while.
U seem to have played with albert before; and i can even buy u thinking some characteristic like that from his meta.
But why did he claim now as scum? im having a hard time weighting this with that.
The whole point is that this would be rly bad play at the stage the game is at.

I have theorized before of a stanley/farside; but if we lynch albert and he flips a cop this would be such an obvious bad play it would be hard not to see whats coming next. It would be a festivity of bad plays at this point. So im willing to hear ur explanation on that, as to why u weight more that particular argument of the game and why u think its not unusual to claim now.

[word321]

just notices i worded terribly wrong almost every post i made on the last 3 days or so
just so ppl can see college is bad for ur (gramatical) health

[word321]

Now lets me ask a question back word or to anyone.
Have you ever seen a cop with a guilty on a player unvote before?

Believable or not, I havent seen once a investigative role survive to tell a single result before
---
Well, the dies r cast. Either way, a scum dies today or tomorrow.

[word321]

MAN, WHY R WE TALKIN LIKE THIS

[word321]

but rly, explain urself

[word321]

im here
i would have lynched stanley myself had norway not done it
i rly feel like this is outside my usual mafia scope until now

[word321]

we have a vt on alarotam
a universal backup->even night alien on votato
a tracker on norway
probably an odd night vig
an even night alien on bob
a rolestopper on stanley
a conf vt on manatee, hoctac, gob and farside

on the scum, we have 2 multitasking voyeurs on nahdia and albert

is that everything until now?

[word321]

oh, bear also claimed vt

[word321]

im readin rn
but im vt
so go ahead VOTE: NDMath and claim

[word321]

wait, there IS an order and were rollin with that?

[word321]

aah, i dnt rly care anymore
ill read it on detail when everyoine claims

[word321]

I like votatos idea. We have 1 block, 1 daykill and 1 nightkill to work with

I guess votato is conf town due to the madonna protect. I think we can safely say that all of our PRs+popo+me are town. That leaves alor, word, and madonna. This is good?

No. 7po is not confirmed in the slightest. I checked ur case; u claimed to be baiting norway into contradiction, but u ended as one of the most suspicious players at D3. U could simply have done nothing that night JUST to claim vt.
Not only that, the way u handled it dsnt feel like u were hunting for a contradiction. Being a vt and being able to confirm urself as town, u should have tried to

force

a tracking claim from norway; instead, u roleclaimed

at the slightest insinuation

, and it ultimately didnt amount to nothing. I still think it looks defensive.

We need to choose our targets carefully. Kills r 100% ways of confirming someone; tracking too, but it is odd. Blocking isnt. Prior knowledge of block allows for the scumpartner to perform the kill instead, even if he was vigged.

If we look at cold facts, and assume everyone who claimed is telling the truth, then our true pool is {Madonna, Midwaybear, Word321, 7po, Aloratom}
From those, we can choose 2 to kill, but I suggest not disclosing who will be blocked; if we r correct in that there is no scum in the prs (wich is only rly plausible with a shenanigan like a prearranged 2 way claim by norway and albert, or some other 4d chess like that (but at this point im just willing to give up the game if that was the case)), then we have the following scenarios:
1. We kill both scum (10%)
2. We kill a scum, and block the other (10%)
3. We kill a scum, but fail to block or kill the other one (40%)
4. We kill 2 VTs, but block the Nk (20%)->Mylo
5. We kill 2 VTs, and dnt block the Nk (10%)->Lylo

Overall, odds r in our favor. This is assuming everyone will play according to the expectations; for this to work though, it is necessary for the block to be "random" (in the sense it cant be known; not necessaryly truly random); obviouysly we do need to say who dies beforehand, so we dnt end up blocking and killing the same player (And saving from the kill, since it is alien!))

[word321]

tracker is odd, this is day 4

[word321]

oh forgot about that
UNVOTE: NDMath

[word321]

sure
my personal opinion (as in my "read") is {midwaybear, madonna, aloratom, 7po} in that order
I still think bear has been overly defensive and has won a free "get out of jail" card with norwee in a gratuitous way
I dnt find the consistent madonna ppl claim to see, and am not particularly satisfied with recent developments either since nahdias lynch.
and aloratom dnt have too much activity and has the last commentary; I can empathyze with the sentiment that since we cant rly prove our alignment, we must provide the best strategy to maximize winning rates to town, considering the possibility we r scum; but from there to

offering

urself as a lynch, it becomes antitown in purpose; its harder to arrive at that conclusion with that kind of thinking, and easier to do from the scum benefits it gives.
Either way, aloratoms suspiciousness is weak by the hard data, and he is also easily lynchbait for activity reasons.
if 7po is scum, he has played a good game.

But honestly, id rather decide everything by dices, as i think they r more impartial than humans. I dnt find any particular

hard

case on anyone except bear, and the criteria well use will be invariably compartive btw us and not objective evidence, wich heightens the chances of good scum staying alive (wich would presumably be the last ones to die eitherway).

[word321]

VOTE: Bear

[word321]

Im here, reading

[word321]

We have this guy pinning on Aloratom:

Spoiler:

L-1: you me norwee madonna
if alor flips scum, vig word. It seemed like he was trying to deflect

today's lynch should be me or midway

this line never comes from town
VOTE: Aloratom

pretty sure alor is scum because town doesn't just give up like that. That being said, I sorta get his attitude right now.
Still think he is the best hang.

ok, I just don't want to die because I'm town(opposite of Alor)

Until alarotam became too townread to be lynched (I know this is an alteration of the timeline, but this does reflect the thought process midway may have had at the time):

Spoiler:

stop
if alor flips town it's madonna+word
I don't like his resigned tone, but I feel it too

Alor feels townie now, so we pivot to word
I am not the lynch todsy

Into a full blown stampede on the other townslots:

Spoiler:

L-1: you me norwee madonna
if alor flips scum, vig word. It seemed like he was trying to deflect

why am I being vigged over word?

every game you play a bit differently, but in no games do you do much scumhunting. and in 1997 i gave you a newbie pass and paid for it. i cant let you get away with that twice, so i feel like i have to be extra hard on you. notice that i havent hardpushed you or tunneled you this game. i just consistently call you out for not actually helping to gamesolve. i keep asking you to help out and ask you to give reads, thoughts and analysis. but you never do.

yes, fair enough
I think if alor flips town, vig/alien madonna/word
Upon scum flip, vig word and he should be the last scum
idk what PRs scum have, so hopefully they don't have a roleblocker
pedit: @norwee

VOTE: word321
Lets do this

Lets wait for ND. Pretty sure he is on the same page as you, but this is getting nowhere.
I can see where you’re coming from votato, but I already tried to pull interaction quotes and it didn’t work so there’s not much more I can do.
Idk who is scum. Nahdia defended word though, so keep it in mind.

What about pox7

Nahdia defended word though

Can you pull this up?

sorry, I meant manatee
I guess nahdia and abr did decide to bus

Note the emphasis on my slot over the other, coincidentally being the most scumread over {Madonna, 7po, word321}
Not only it has incorrect facts, as Abr and Nahdia coluded on my wagon on D1, she never defended me once (u can go check it out if u want); he retracted about that only after being called out on it.

There is also flawed logic; his first attitude was "If alarotam is scum, vig word instead of block, as he was deflective". U know, in the plan I was to be blocked; if u rly though I was the most likely partner, the best course of action would be to block, cause that would have easily shown a no kill on the day; this is for pragmatic reasons, as scum can actually not kill that night, so blocking on this scenario is faulty (unless, again, we r talking about the most possible partner)***. If bear is rly town, then even if he dies we win the game under that hypothesis. On the other hand, if Im not the most likely partner to Aloratom, then only if I was the most suspect would it be better to vig at night my slot, EXACTLY if im, again, not the most likely partner; the association does not amount to anything.
What does it amount, though? Bear survives the night, cause he is not vigged. Furthermore, Aloratom dstn even

need

to be scum; the current convention is that we will vig

regardless of a flip

and only block

upon a flip

.
This is faulty logic in so many ways, and favors bear so much it is not even funny.

I thought to actually also post his "spectacular" defense on his (lack of) assosiation with albert, but u can all go iso him for that. Its funny considering one of the things that killed the most momentum of his wagon after nahdias lynch was alberts gambit, wich monopolized the day.

Overall, I RLY think at this point midwaybear is scum. How can a player pray so much for his own survival? Thats the only thing that makes me think that makes him town, cause no scum would be so blatantly obvious. But he isnt even trying to rly solve the game; again, the above argument is

factually wrong

meaning he didnt even bother to check how things rly went. I cant even associate it with newbieness; I saw him on 1997, he wasnt a bad player.
I just think he is playing every card to stay alive here.

And again I must repeat myself:

We have so many little real information we r judgin ppl directly based upon comparatives, and not "hard" data

. From the lynch list, the only one Im truly confident could be scum is midwaybear; our current process of choosing the lynch is naturally orbiting to leaving the most experient players alive, and not the most likely towns; proof of that is aloratoms current shift to block instead of lynch, midways bear drift towards the most scummy player and 7pos practical immunity. I feel this is highly faulty, specially considering (again, repeating myself) that the most likely scums to survive r the most experient ones; thats completely contradictory with bear. I have made every single call wrong this game, so I may be biased; but I RLY think the dices on this particular ocasion r better (upon a prearranged list, oc).

Upon the current arrangement of things, its pretty clear bear and me cant be partners; so under that hypothesis, considering Ill be in the trio of players to be lynched, it IS indeed more effective to lynch bear, then vig me and then block aloratom (excluding Madonna and 7po); but due to his recent attitude to aloratom, I think there should be another 3rd player instead of aloratom on the block in case bear effectlively flips scum. Notice Im currently proposing to ditch that particular bit of the current strategy though.

***This is why I dnt like NDMaths, plan. There r 2 main reasons:
1. Keep things deadsimple, if they r as effective; no need to put a lot of conditionals on this.
2. Confirming who u r blocking is a TERRIBLE idea on every single scenario; even if we do lynch scum, lets say we r wrong on the block, and scum dsnt kill that night. What would happen? Thats a free ticket to defeat. On the other hand, not disclosing the block actually has investigative values, cause scum dsnt know who will be blocked

[word321]

townslots

*vanilla townie; Im not impliying this slots r town

[word321]

EVERYONE UNVOTE

[word321]

UNVOTE:
Lets do this like civilized ppl this time, shall we?
No need to do a real vote if we have a strategy

[word321]

I do agree bear is the way to go
But if he goest to L-1, EVERYONE can go and lynch him,

including his partner

, with due justification
So lets just unvote, and sort things out first
Its pretty clear bear is the lynch today

[word321]

the strategy is to lynch midway. if he flips town we vig word and if he flips scum we vig alora

Im ok with this
If he is not scum despite everything and Im literally wrong withe every hypothesis this game, then god hates me and I

deserve

to be lynched In Nomine Domini (DEUS VULT, INFIDEL)

What I dnt agree is aloratom here
Why is he the most likely partner upon a bear flip? (Im assuming we droped the choosing of the block; either way, the hypothesis is still seacrhing for a bear partner) He literally tried to kill him just now.
Lets drop already the surface reads and try to actually read the game again; we still have 11 days to decide on that

Pedit: Wait, WHAT?

[word321]

Some posts on 7po:

#7PO

Spoiler:

IMPORTANT: Theres too much info; this votes were handpicked to show a particular evolution of 7po on a certain subject regarding the reads on relevant players for today. If 7po himself feels this does not make honor to his game, feel free to point other posts or the like.

gonna post some reads

votato-town
aloratom - town
norwee - town
hoctac - town
manatee - probably town
farside - probably town, but im wary


word - null, his posts are kinda grating tho (no offense)
ABR - null, need more from this apparently legendary figure
stan1ey - hasn't left much of an impression
gobbledygook - meh

madonna - still dont like his early posts, but ill be taking my vote off soon as i have bigger fish to fry

bob3141 - as i said, his defense to farside feels off. doesn't town just go "lol meta" and move on? thats what i would do if someone made a meta case like that. if farside really cherrypicked the games id hope he can go into more detail to back up this accusation.

ndmath - i already pointed to his interaction with midwaybear, which felt very off and most certainly not two townies genuinely questioning each other. i think farside scumread at one point too, not my strongest scumread tho atm.


nahdia - scum

yeah sure
however, I am a bit cautious. I don't really see anything too out of the blue with word's current posts compared to his standard town meta

This is both "gratuitous" and was umprompted; theres no reason to do this as scum, and constitutes my first somewhat serious tl.

yikers a bad post in reference to a bad post. scumception.

idk bc that's a fucking

wild

post if they're both mafia but i sure do hate them both!

game is strange. normally i feel like im townreading too many people and have to adjust, now i feel like im scumreading too many people. who would like to be part of the townbloc? apply now.

VOTE: word321

this is nahdia's real post-rvs entrance to the thread. they immediately buddy up to farside by virtue of having the same scumread as her. I also hate how nahdia says they are townreading too many people, feels like scum trying to be friendly and make everyone feel comfortable around them. do not like.

is it just me or are this games vibes weird?

hey friend manateedude i'd like to know what u meant by this, if you are able to elaborate.

always like when im reading up and someone seems to have the same read i was having. farside22 i hereby officially invite u to my townbloc. everyone else must Apply Now.

Farside and Nahdia? Sure, I'll join.

VOTE: Word

your application has been accepted.

now this post i find to be pretty bad also. the "oh what a surprise farside and i have the same reads" is super fake and disengenous IMO. no way nahdia didnt read the damn thread before the first post made voting word. i also think the joking establishment of a townbloc is more attempts to buddy up to the two most experienced players in this game (farside and rampage) i didnt really like the reads post nahdia made either

but nahdia isn't my main concern

midwaybear- really poor ISO imo. lets go over some stuff.

pahls ley off te durgs

trying to decipher what you're trying to say is harder than the reading comprehension section on certain standardized tests
My best guess is that you're asking how good our scum games are.
My answer: I like to think that it's good, but it's probably not

I will do my best to decipher whatever language Hoctac is speaking

It is a gimmick
we would appreciate it if you speak like you normally do
pedit: yeah

this stuff reads like busywork, overemphasis on the typos and meme posting common at the start of day 1, especially in a large. great way to be active in thread and look busy/helpful without contributing to town wincon.

in a large game like this, picking some VI to quicklynch isn't a bad idea day 1.

I disagree? I mean we probably will end up lynching a VI, but I don't think we should quicklynch.

ok, if we probably end up lynching a VI as u say, whats the problem with a quicklynch. also, midwaybear would go on to contradict himself later on

yeah sure
however, I am a bit cautious. I don't really see anything too out of the blue with word's current posts compared to his standard town meta

this was a lie, he didnt check word's meta. he had one game played with him, so referencing "standard town meta" is disingenuous at best.

Ok, so Hoctac was basically trolling us
Dunno what to think about that :/

hoctac was trolling us good town players frowny face :/
please

Hmm that actually is an interesting contradiction you pointed out.
VOTE: Manatee

I feel like manatee's explanation doesn't make sense which is why my vote is still o him

i cant talk since i also voted manatee, but that shit was wack we can all look back and agree

OK NOW THIS PART I FIND ESPECIALLY SKETCHY, I DIDNT QUOTE EVERY POST IN ORDER BUT HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART

VOTE: madonna

VOTE: Madonna
oh yeah

We had a solid bandwagon on word, and a competing miniwagon with manatee. I think that's sufficient information for day 2, all considered.

I'm just tired of 80 page day 1s where every town role is outted and scum can pick the PRs apart...….every damn time.

lol I'm down

HOW IS THIS NOT A DIRECT CONTRADICTION TO MIDBEAR SAYING TO ME HE DOESN'T WANT A QUICKLYNCH IN POST #132?? HE HAS COMPLETELY SHIFTED HIS OPINION AND NOW HE IS ALL LIKE "LOL IM DOWN" WHEN IT COMES TO SPEEDWAGON ON MADONNA, AFTER PREVIOUSLY SAYING HE DOESNT THINK WE SHOULD MISLYNCH. VERY SUS

Why are you still joking like it is RVS

this shit i dont like either. admonishing someone for joking around, then 6 posts later he posts a smiley.

I think manatee shouldn't be pushed from his explanations. I still do not see his logic, but I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't really have much on the others, but I like stan1ey too because he is pushing people and trying to find contradictions.

here is another post when he harps on about this stanley townread again for some unknown reason.

LOOK THROUGH HIS ISO AND FIND ME A SCUMREAD, FIND ME JUST ONE. midwaybear voted manatee for a shit reason, and then hopped on the madonna wagon, which i and abr joked about being a speed wagon, right after stating he doesn't want a speedlynch.

so

vote: midwaybear

i feel good about this

what

players can change their reads. changing reads can be towny. but scum often change their reads when they make a case on a partner to create distance, and towntell in the process.
and i think it's pretty transparent that my point was to try and make popopo stick to midway. it WAS a threat

ok so im scum with midway, and for some reason i posted a big old wall on him and voted him, when he had zero pressure from anyone else in thread. makes sense. and i can get off a wagon anytime i want, you shouldnt be trying to control how town players push their reads and if the reads change... yikes

i will say that an ongoing problem for me is mistaking new players for scum. the blatant contradiction in mdiway's attitude towards quick-lynching definitely exists. his defense was also bad. but the way he just accepts the contradiction and says i guess im a hypocrite, i just got caught up for a second, sorry. that is giving me second thoughts, as it seems kinda genuine.

hypocrisy: sorry

like this, does this really come from a pressured new scum player? im not so sure.


plus nahdia's posting since my wall has just been bizarre, i agree completely with farside that the reads post they made was bad, and the justifications after farside's pushing was poor. i was gonna go more in depth on nahdia on my wall but farside had made many points already about the reads post and i didnt wanna be redundant. i really don't understand the bussing angle they are trying to push, and don't really see it coming from town. i apologize to everyone for the rapid vote switch but what u gonna do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

vote:nahdia

i was also thinking me and albert were mind-melding pretty well yesterday, but his defense of nahdia is really weird, and has no justification as well. i was really stoned at like 3am last night and i got the feeling that albert was pocketing me and egging along my midway wagon, and that maybe it wasn't genuine from him. might be just late night grass induced paranoia tho...i hope my reasoning is clear.

didn't realize it was l-1. i wouldn't hammer without a claim. sorry bob :\

voyeur. hoctac was killed by a killing action (lol)

I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE LYNCHING THIS

i dont see why me targeting a dead player is any more easy to fake than any living player. hoctac was still a valid target last night.

cuz he flipped, so it is easier to make up something compared to if you targeted a living player

didn't realize it was l-1. i wouldn't hammer without a claim. sorry bob :\

voyeur. hoctac was killed by a killing action (lol)

I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE LYNCHING THIS

i don't

?????? THESE TWO ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY PARTNERS

Or are you saying scum!Nahdia intentionally chose to say they targeted Hoctac (One of the deaths) with a worthless night action as mafia?

nahdia was fairly scumread yesterday by me and a few others. if scum nahdia claimed visiting a different person they would be at risk of a tracker/watcher/other PR disproving their claim and getting immediately lynched. what do you think a better claim for scum nahdia would be in this situation, assuming they made the NK?

picture this situation
someone claims tracker - i tracked nahdia to hoctac

nahdia "oh yea im a voyeur hoctac was killed lol"

would be lynched

scumteam of Nahdia, midway, ABR, ?????


could it be that easy?

I thought Albert was a vig or some other pr from his play. It all makes sense if he is pr.

fuck this

vote:stanley

lets say ABR faked a guilty, the guy he randomly faked a guilty on is a SUPER PRO TOWN PROTECTIVE ROLE?

i dont believe the claim.

between aloratom, midway, word, madonna. idk... i do feel like word is town for some reason. i am gonna reread this game, we have no rush to end the day anytime soon

i dont really wanna lynch madonna

vote: aloratom

ok maybe we lynch midwaybear

We see an interesting evolution here; I think I know why ppl mostly think 7po is town; he went hard from early on against the scum slots. Particular emphasis on 542 and even more particular emphasis to:

scumteam of Nahdia, midway, ABR, ?????


could it be that easy?

At this point going though the ISO, I thought it was fairly reasonable as town. But if we take into consideration the WHOLE game, this fits

overwflowingly

too well by a large margin; the guy went straight to Nahdia for the lynch, while still going directly and openly for a midwaybear on the way, and albert early on (lets for the sake of the argument, assume midwaybear is scum; EVEN if u r not convinced at this point for the possibility, he will still probably be the lynch of the day, henceforth it is more plausible to look for possible partners in the playerbase, so it is a good hypothesis to have regardless). So far, so good; but immediatly after Nahdias lynch, we have a complete 180; the read on albert became a downright townread for powerole ("ok, this may have explained his weird behavior yesterday"), and a vote on stanley, and the case on bear practically disappearing; moreso, today bear is completely ausent from the equation, when he openly speculated about a Nahdia/Bear association when Nahdia was yet to flip.
Overall, I think he could have got an insane amount of towncread early on and may be monopolizing on that at this point to be kept outside the grand scheme of things, bussing every partner at a time it was not sure who was going to be lynched and whos not (exactly for the apparent preeminance of ISO reads instead of context reads on large games, due to the sheer amount of information); and now he can simply "be here" and lurk his way out. It is worth noticing he still has activity on the site, and is currently playing a blitz (I was checking that actually for monkey and holden in another game), so I think his convenient disappearence on D4 is actually lurking on that regard.
So, overall I still am incapable of seeing the conftown 7po ppl see, and am casing him as the most likely partner for a bear.

Following the same hypothesis for a scum bear, it is actually a little bit better for Madonna.
Heres the thing: For the sake of simplicity, lets assume it is a game of 4 scums and that bear is one of the scums. D2 ended quite chaotically for a possible scum team; the reads on bear were rly bad, albert openly went for a lynch on another one and a defense on nahdia instead and nahdia was, well, dead. If we were to assume Madonna was in the team, they needed to choose someone to kill gobble at the time; but madonna was abducted that day by votato, who blocked ndmaths kill. Still, gobble died; we r weighting now the likeness of nahdia being sent over albert and bear (under the hypothesis, again, bear is scum). That is a RLY hard data, so I dnt think we should choose madonna at all given that hypothesis, at least not for a kill.

Lastly, I need to ask the same as aloratom; being confirmed town dst grant a license to lurk the day. We cant rly work on surface reads, and trying to fit {word, aloratom} on a scenario when bear flips scum or town if neither of them fits one of the possibilities over others is being downright lazy. We have A LOT of material on this game; would it be better if there was fewer?

[word321]

u certainly have something other than feel to have manifested like that, right?
whats ur current gamestate? Last time I saw u were heavily tr madonna, tl me and was doubting aloratom. Have recent events changed that?
Dnt u have anything else to say? About ur game as a whole?

[word321]

Oh, forget about the norwee part
Just saw the mini normal
now it makes sense

[word321]

its over, so i dnt think theres a problem talkin about that

[word321]

(expired on 2020-06-10 21:00:00)
There there is intent to lynch; we should wrap things up for now. I feel I am blatantly being ignored, so Id rather have the prs wrap it up and do whatever they want at this point. Dnt think Ill put any more effort in the game.

[word321]

I am indeed here.
I am thinking rn. Its pretty clear scum is in {madonna, norwee}. And were probably in Lylo rn.
Just for the record, what r the most likely associated partners from ur pov? I mean, madonnas partner for norwee and norwees partner for madonna.

About the target, from scum perception, it was meaningless to target in anyway potato; that leaves us with vts or a pr. Since they most probably r checking for potatos block (as there is evidence no pr has any block abilities whatsoever, and no matter what power they have at this point it would be more valuable to be simply "blocked" wich would investigate on its own right), it would be weird for potato to block norwee and waste the investigative effort there; assuming the other scum has a pr, he can check himself by being blocked (although with the kill done it would be meaningless either way to at that point). Checking if the block landed on the other vt by the less likely member to be blocked (that is, the one performing the kill) is the most probable course of action.

[word321]

So vote Madonna today.
If game isn’t over tommorow, never lynch Votato. It’s either Word or Popopo.

Wait right there
We need to ascertain some things first here, norwee
We r not voting rn until we ascertain ur claim is trustable
So stop rushing things for now

Give a list of tracked ppl and results (I know it is in the thread, but it is easier if u give one to us)

[word321]

Ill go Iso u both for now and ascertain the timeline of events. Ill come back later with more questions by then. For now make Madonna talk.

[word321]

For the record, I havent rly Isoed yet, and wont do it for some time until I actually have enough timw to do it.
That ur claim works to ur advantage has no doubts. That it is town motivated though? Thats a little bit of a gray area, and NEEDS more solving.
Just as an example. U offed Stanley; at the time, I found alberts claim believable in part cause he was an

even

cop while u were an

odd

tracker. But it seems now that u r a full tracker. Didnt u find it odd at the time, or worth sharing upon?
Im not trying to imply a preeminance of a case before the other. Im saying we need to study, and that u r nlt clear a priori.
Since we have every role avaible, it would be also good talking about the balance of the game; if it dsnt support a scenario where there would be no investigative role, then it is settled. I have no experience on balancing; if someone has beena mod at some point, feel free to talk about that.

[word321]

hmmm
I suppose I cant afford to ignore this anymore

[word321]

from my pov there r 2 possible scenarios, assuming 100% votato conftown:
-7po and norwee
-7po and madonna

now, im actually inclined to favor the first, albeit the latter is still possible.
first, u both r rushing shit YET AGAIN like yesterday like there is not enough time. Its actually funny when norwee said earlier he is not rushing things up (albeit as a tracker, he does know madonna is scum if town).
second, 7po didnt even bat an eye by the fact norwee chose it was a better idea to lynch our roleblocker for the tradeoff of imposing the idea to scum that he was "just" an odd night tracker instead of a full night tracker coincidentally when both wagons reached L-1, nor the fact vigilante+universal backup R indeed investigative roles.
and 3rd, norwee dsnt even have in him to think 7po may be bussing his partner.
Since he didnt monopolize any of this things, it is safer to say they r indeed partners.

On the other hand, madonna/7po havent had much interactions until now, except not pointing fingers at the end of this day. I havent rly developed this cause ive only double checked norwee. I NEED to check this at some point, cause I dnt want to make the same mistake with bear.

I advise cautiousness to votato.

AND YES IVE BEEN ONLINE FOR SOME TIME SEEING THIS SHIT; IVE ALSO BEEN STUDYING FOR AN EXAM AT THE SAME TIME. So stop with those lame excuses pal, and stop trying to add fake info over it. Im not ashamed of showing I am online; it would be too simple to simply activate the "dnt show online activity". Im only here cause I think this could cause a gameover, and needed to show my investigations beforehand so the danish dnt simply land the vote before further investigating things. We have been here for almost a month and Im not planning to throw that up just bc a scum and potentially a pair r trying to rush things again.

[word321]

u still havent developed that point in particular. U chose to lie as an odd tracker when albert went against stanley, openly thinking stanley made a contradiction, despite knowing alberts claim was incoherent with urs. When confronted with it, u chose to say "u knew albert was saying shit, but chose to lynch stanley regardless

only when the wagon arrived at L-1

to make mafia actually think u were just a odd tracker and not a full tracker". I dnt buy it, norwee, not like that; u must have a better reason for that. And I dnt think is u/potato nor u/madonna (albeit that last one would be AWESOME. both, rly.). The interaction with bear was also odd, as u never said u tracked him; u were openly baiting a claim.

Im OBLIGED to iso madonna to check consistencies, but for now, Im QUITE inclined to think u r lying about that last part.

[word321]

So u thaught albert was townmotivated by faking a cop on a guy who claimed roleblocker, and thaught that faking an odd tracker would improve your chance of survival when u and stanley were the only 2 prs at the time?

I feel like we r devolving in a word vs norway at this point, and that is not good; we should try to fit anyone in a Lylo. But it is my duty to defend myself on this situation, so we dnt loose.
My last interaction with madonna and last general read was on 1005. At the time, I thought 7po was an investigative role who had investigated nahdia; thats the reason from my opinion on both 7po and Nahdia. That was D2.
For now, I need to go back to studying, but will try to come back if I catch something particularly bashful.

[word321]

well, at the time of posting, a wordXmadonna vs norweeX7po.

[word321]

then I would be scum for thinking that way with the info Ive got, and u should have aimed for a 7po/word321, no?

[word321]

well, figuratively, as u tracked madonna.

[word321]

im quite bashed for being that one from ur position, norwee
thats the main reason I think u r scum with 7po, and was actually waitin for that interaction in particular; he didnt monopolize on u
u didnt even bother to iso neither of us, as that would be evident. 7po coasted EVERYONE except by saying madonna is town like from D3, after potato blocked her; now u track and he immediatly votes madonna, theoretically breaking the association that could have been planted if he has died.
Well, thats from ur pov, at least. At this point I still think u r more scum; that was the reason I needed to verify madonna.
But it seems u dnt rly like reading, do u? Or dnt need, at least.

[word321]

I dnt think it is. But r u rly that impressed by being scumread over the shit with the tracker claim? U cant say it aint scummy from my pov; I actually was waiting for a different kind of answer to the albert affair, like thinking it was compatible; but u clearly dnt. It all sounds like an excuse from being catched lying, if u were to put it in the worse scenario.

[word321]

It bothered me a little bit since yesterday. U were the only pr that could have been faked with information completely from the thread, as to that time u only knew Nahdia went to hoctac. Nahdia was a multitasking, and she didnt kill hoctac, cause she would have voyeured someone else; but nahdia wasnt in a position to kill due to suspiciousness, that meant she voyeured. why would she voyeur someone who was to be killed? A bear scum would have completely cleared u, so I dropped it; buit that didnt ended up being the case.

[word321]

ur just gonna ignore me, wont u?

[word321]

nah, i was talkin with potato. he will use ockhams razor it seems.

[word321]

im still impressed by 7pos practical immunity thorough the game to be honest, tho

[word321]

i mean scum were clearly bussing hard early on which makes me paranoid. at the same time, word is making it pretty clear that it isnt word and norwee, and i dont think it could be popo and norwee. theres still a chance of norwee and madonner.

i can actually agree with the first part. but madonna 7po instead of 7po norwee?

[word321]

norwee madonna*

[word321]

what the fuck is ur problem with 7po? Does someone RLY know something I dnt know? I mean, my pov is more clear, yes; but simply WHY?

[word321]

at this point I just want brutal honesty. Whatever this guy did I sure want to copy if I end up being scum someday.

[word321]

instead of 7po/madonna is also valid on that post.

[word321]

aaaah, I do need to study at this point

[word321]

I wonder how the deadchat is rn

[word321]

lets all skip the night so we finish it today, shall we?

[word321]

nope

[word321]

either way, there is no way this will last that long even with more time, that much im aware

[word321]

oh, gg wp!
it was overall a fun game
that tracking gambit rly took us by surprise to be honest
my original plan was actually to bus madonna; but after reviewing norwees case, it was just too juicy to drop, so i changed paths midway
i was actually impressed by a lot of things this game; i would never have guessed alberts gambit or norwees gambit
and damn, farside is too sharp for gods sake

[word321]

HAHAHAHHA
nah, if I had to say, D1 was not alignment indicative. It is true im just that weird
either way, it was part of alberts plan; the first 2 wagons D1 never arrive to anything, so we planned to place scums on that spots
u helped us in that regard

[word321]

yeah, too many prs
we struggled making use of voyeur powers in a good way in that sense

[word321]

hmm, u can go check my other games if u want
I had a similar problem with newbie 2006 with an early wagon, and if I had to say it was as scummy or worse; I already flipped there town. it is truth im just that weird
but again, it is truth that is for u to judge, as u r the other player.

What i found more suspicious tho, is me entering the bob wagin in such a rash way with nahdia. that was some prime material.

[word321]

actually i cant believe i got away with that; i remember making a reason in a fjsh, like trying to pry on gob at the same time i went for bob for his defense or something AND YET at the same time attacking farside for she hoing when there was no evidence

that was i deed full of bs

[word321]

oh, and thanks schadd for modding!

[word321]

yeaaaah i was lurking sooo much
it was like a post a day
but it was half justified tho; i was rly busy with the uni
actually, part of my "code of honor" in mafiascum is not lying about outside of the game things; so if I said I had an exam or something, I was not lying
but I did push my activity to the lowest possible otherwise

the r yall trying to apparent activity with this is cause we had an insanely activively D1, but a lot of ppl didnt talk at all; then suddenly when I was on a wagon, one after the other began popping up out of no where to vote; that is what it was alluding to
that of course, included albert, nahdia and madonna, wich was the whole point

[word321]

wow
the dead chat was fun to read

[word321]

you absolute buffoon, you ignoramus, you chucklefuck. no offense, you joke of a man. you goober. i bite my thumb at you, in the most polite of ways, you blithering meshuggener. i mean no ill-will, but gosh, you are slime. you are mold festering on my drywall, my good sir. dirt is more worthy of my attention, you good, perfectly reasonable absolute nitwit.