Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[skitter30]

i'm not following? i think nearly anybody can be scum with bingle
i don't have any particular anti-associatives for him

[Almost50]

The question is: If we were pushing a scum partner of Bingle, why did not Bingle intervene to assist his p and redirect the pressure elsewhere. Bingle is pretty good at directing the flow when he is scum.

[skitter30]

bingle/lilith?

[PenguinPower]

lilith

[Menalque]

W-was that the wind? Guys, I swear I heard something. Maybe we should get out of this cabin!

[Something_Smart]

That's the type of content that I put out when I'm scum in order to look like I have more to say than I actually do.

I would object to this on the basis that I made it pretty clear what I did and didn't have an opinion on.

[Almost50]

bingle/lilith?

Then why aren't we lynching lillith again?? I thought we were talking off the assumption S_S/lillith was T/T

[skitter30]

that's why this is confusing

[Blake Belladonna]

I think this game only looks complicated because people are thinking it would be.

[Bingle]

I thought we were talking off the assumption S_S/lillith was T/T

I'm still working on the assumption that SS/Lilith is S/T in some fashion and that SS's lynch gives me more information. I prefer a Maria lynch to a Lilith one. I think the gamestate stalling is adequately explained by a small scumteam as opposed to a lack of scum desire to shift anything.

I don't think that reads post is something outside of scum SS's capabilities. The lack of hard stances makes it unlikely to be damning if he flips scum and he wasn't really a defacto lynch when he made it. I also don't think that being disengaged from the game is a towntell here from SS. I think it's genuine, sure, but I don't see why scum him is any less likely to be disengaged than town him.

[Blake Belladonna]

It should be pretty obvious that all of Menalque, Skitter30, and Almost50 are town. I'm not as certain on Datisi because it's the type of meta read that I suspect easily works when he is town, but might not necessarily still be the case when he is scum. However, I think his content overall has been fine and I'm not seeing much of a reason to give in to that paranoia without other reasons to suspect him.

I mentioned before that PenguinPower's push on me makes more sense from a town perspective than a scum perspective. This is still the case mainly because I don't suspect he is the type of player that would show teeth like that as scum and have ultimately nothing come of it.

The most obvious town after this would normally be Bingle, but I'm actually a lot less certain about his alignment mainly because of something specific he mentioned a bit earlier. I will dig out quotes sometime later to be sure that I'm remembering correctly.

The rest are all slots I simply am fine just running through. I don't expect there are scum outside this list, and this town is strong enough that I strongly suspect that even if there is, the scumteam would have to do some impressive gymnastics to prevent them from being found out as scum get flipped.

I still think Lilith2013 is the slot that is the most likely to flip scum of the remainder, to be clear.

[Datisi]

I'm not as certain on Datisi because

it's the type of meta read that I suspect easily works when he is town, but might not necessarily still be the case when he is scum.

However, I think his content overall has been fine and I'm not seeing much of a reason to give in to that paranoia without other reasons to suspect him.

what does this mean?

[Blake Belladonna]

It means I think I can recognize you when you're town pretty easily still (refer to the recent hydra game), but I'm less certain I'll properly scumread you when you're scum.

[PenguinPower]

@mod: v/la through Sunday

[Firebringer]

@vla through sunday

work + weekend plans gonna keep me busy.

[Almost50]

@vla through sunday

work + weekend plans gonna keep me busy.

Why are you telling

vla

your plans?

[Bingle]

Thread is dead.

VOTE: Maria

We need a flip. If that flip is me, so be it. I think any of Maria/SS/Lilith provides more concrete stances to analyse though.

[ofrhz]

VOTE COUNT 2.8

MariaR [4]:

Almost50 [3111], Datisi [3113], Menalque [3187], Bingle [3266]

-- [L-2]

lilith2013 [2]:

MariaR [2893], PenguinPower [2924]

Bingle [2]:

skitter30 [3209], Blake Belladonna [3210]

Something_Smart [1]:

Firebringer [2424]

Blake Belladonna [1]:

lilith2013 [3184]

Not Voting [1]:

Something_Smart

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.
Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2020-06-30 01:30:00)

Game Notes:

skitter30 regular v/la Fridays and Saturdays
PenguinPower v/la through Sunday
Firebringer v/la through Sunday

[Menalque]

At this point Blake, S_S, and (mostly) bingle are all vanities. If you’re on one you should pick a proper wagon or try to turn the person you’re on into a real wagon if you have a lot of conviction that they’re scum. S_S needs to make an actual vote

[Blake Belladonna]

VOTE: Lilith2013

[MariaR]

@Mena

You're scumreading me the known mood based player for changing her mood? Do you think I was, planning this or I'm faking it? Etc.

[MariaR]

Bingle saying me and S_S look good as scum together while giving no context on how they think scum me would do such a thing or examples is really bad btw.
VOTE: Bingle

[Something_Smart]

At this point Blake, S_S, and (mostly) bingle are all vanities. If you’re on one you should pick a proper wagon or try to turn the person you’re on into a real wagon if you have a lot of conviction that they’re scum. S_S needs to make an actual vote

I mean if I were to vote right now it would probably be on Bingle. I don't really agree that voting a vanity is bad here, nor that voting is imperative. I do think we can make progress without dueling wagons, though I wouldn't be opposed to voting I don't think.

[Menalque]

VOTE COUNT 2.4

lilith2013 [4]:

Menalque [2433], Blake Belladonna [2720], MariaR [2893], PenguinPower [2924]

-- [L-2]

Something_Smart [4]:

skitter30 [2389], Firebringer [2424], Bingle [2740], Almost50 [2887]

-- [L-2]

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart, lilith2013, Datisi [2806]

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.
Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2020-06-30 01:30:00)

Game Notes:

skitter30 regular v/la Fridays and Saturdays

VOTE COUNT 2.4

lilith2013 [4]:

Menalque [2433], Blake Belladonna [2720], MariaR [2893], PenguinPower [2924]

-- [L-2]

Something_Smart [4]:

Firebringer [2424], Bingle [2740], Almost50 [2887], Datisi [2988]

-- [L-2]

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart, lilith2013, skitter30 [2990]

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.
Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2020-06-30 01:30:00)

Game Notes:

skitter30 regular v/la Fridays and Saturdays

@maria I kind of feel like you’re saying that I would never be justified in scumreading you lol

Like if I said I toneread you as scum, you’d say your tone depends on your mood and that that’s not legit or reliable. If I track a progression for you that I think often comes from scum (acting okay with being lynched but then trying to avoid it p strongly through actions) then again it’s because of your mood. I imagine that if you hard defended scum you’d say it was a bad reason to scumread you because you’d be more subtle, and if I called you out for bussing you’d say it would look more convincing. So like I’m happy to dialogue about why you think X is scum but you just saying you’re not scum here because your progression is adequately explained by mood isn’t convincing to me

[Menalque]

Oh right, the two VCs: I was also wondering about the gamestate. So if S_S is town then if lilith were scum it would make sense for scum to be trying to lynch him right? Only the pushers there were (skitt, A50, datisi) which is i think a solidly towny core + myself later on. So that theory doesn’t really hold up.

What about if they were TvT, what would scum be doing? Probably gently supporting both wagons if they were both townled onto town, given the strong likelihood of skitt being town. So maybe 2 scum on one and one on the other, meaning all the scum in (you, Blake, PP, bingle, fb) which frankly doesn’t seem awful as a solve