Newbie 2012 - Game Over

[UNOwen]

Mini immediately joining the leading wagon and having no other reads is not the most reassuring thing I've ever seen. It would make sense for newbie scum, but I could see it just meaning a new player in general.

After going over the game again and skim reading everything, i still stick with what I have said in regards to my thoughts. I can see however how you may think i am trying to blend in with others to keep hidden and honestly if I was scum it wouldn't be a bad play until caught out. I am still sticking with TTJT being scummy as fishing for information with the questions being asked just doesn't seem right to me.

VOTE: TheThirteenthJT

Why did you reply to a couple of posts from early game and then stop?

[UNOwen]

As irresponsible as this sounds, I'm not really super concerned with my lynch if town wants to make that mistake

I don't know, this last post here makes me feel uneasy about voting for DoctorPepper now. What is everyone else's thoughts about it? Scum

could

say it's a "mistake", but how likely?

Surely scum

would

say it's a mistake, unless they were throwing in the towel completely. Could you explain what you mean by "how likely"?

[Ydrasse]

dp’s reply to me isn’t very indicative of anything. i think that a player that hasn’t kept up/been as engaged with a game as either alignment would say that.

why does it make you uneasy that he’s saying he’s not a good vote @italiano?

[72offsuit]

VOTE: DP

[72offsuit]

Just compared Micro 935 | Chain of Command (townDP)
viewtopic.php?p=11763091&user_select%5B ... #p11763091

with

Newbie 2000 (scumDP)
viewtopic.php?p=11759321&user_select%5B ... #p11759321

TownDP

posts a readslist day 1 with as far as I can tell is 5 days to deadline.
His posts are quite town-vibey overall, with most posts directly discussing player alignment

143 I actually think Drew is town, idk where this is coming from

151 Gutfeel. You seem to be having real activity. Doesn't seem like scum trying to be active

153 Never said it wasn't. I'm just saying my gut tells me that Drew is being active in a way that I find productive to town, instead of people being active but not contributing anything to the discussion

155 - To be honest, I haven't done a good job reading this game, I skimmed a lot (I hate meta too and a lot of the meta discussion here has been a big meh for me) I still have Euphonia as my top scum read tho that may be because I'm super annoyed by the posting style.
Liking OkaPoka and Kanna so far.

157 I think I am good with Oka so far as my read on QQ aligns. So that's why I'm inclined to agree with them for now
Though agreed, not much to go on this game. Why don't we get the others involved, I can't seem to get anything off Aldus or Iconeum

159 Mostly gut on Kanna. I particularly liked pushing me for my QQ read earlier.
You, hmm so far I didn't like you for disagreeing with my Euphony push, but I do get your point on PR hunting.
But I wasn't really as much hunting PRs as I was trying to understand what QQ was doing because I never get what they're doing.
You're actively trying to get reads today so you're looking good for now, care to convince me otherwise on Euphony?

161 Disagreeing implies that you're town who doesn't agree with me. That wasn't my thought at first. I thought you were making a bad push because I took something I didnt expect to be a joke as a serious post.
I thought it was kinda mis-reppy at first, hence my initial read. But you don't seem like you are fake scum.hunting or looking for reasons to paint people as scum

etc etc.

[72offsuit]

ScumDP:

Seems to ask a LOT more questions, many of them not very hard-hitting at all.
In this game:
19
22
25
39
47
88 etc etc
these posts all have questions and thats just his first handful of posts here in this game.

Read his previous Newbie game where he is scum and you can see he asks a lot more questions compared to his towngame.

[72offsuit]

Ok scratch the point about readslist, he psots a readslist day as scum too.

[72offsuit]

as town too*

[72offsuit]

Scum DP's post 79 in Newbie 2000

"Walk me through your 'Hand of Glass' read. This seems like it's a new player kind of thing and not a scum thing."

reads to me similar to post 352 in this game

[72offsuit]

72's UVC:

TheThirteenthJT (3) - UNOwen, GuiltyLion, MiniMegabyte
UNOwen (2) - TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD
MiniMegabyte (1) - WaltertheDunce10
ItalianoVD (1) - Ydrasse
WaltertheDunce10 (1) - DoctorPepper
DoctorPepper (1) - 72offsuit


TTJT at L-2

Please correct me if I'm wrong

[72offsuit]

Ok scratch the point about readslist, he psots a readslist day as scum too.

as town too*

EBWOP: He posts a reads-list regardless of alignment to scratch this point *

[72offsuit]

EBWOP: so*

omg
sdfkjysdlkgsdukfgsdjflgsdf
I type good.

[Micc]

Votecount 1.09

TheThirteenthJT (3) -

UNOwen, GuiltyLion, MiniMegabyte

UNOwen (2) -

TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD

MiniMegabyte (1) -

WaltertheDunce10

ItalianoVD (1) -

Ydrasse

WaltertheDunce10 (1) -

DoctorPepper

DoctorPepper (1) -

72offsuit

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to Eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

TheThirteenthJT is V/LA until 6/27.

[ItalianoVD]

As irresponsible as this sounds, I'm not really super concerned with my lynch if town wants to make that mistake

I don't know, this last post here makes me feel uneasy about voting for DoctorPepper now. What is everyone else's thoughts about it? Scum

could

say it's a "mistake", but how likely?

Surely scum

would

say it's a mistake, unless they were throwing in the towel completely. Could you explain what you mean by "how likely"?

why does it make you uneasy that he’s saying he’s not a good vote @italiano?

I don’t know if DoctorPepper is playing mind games, but to me it seems like he might be trying to softclaim a special role.

And what I mean by how likely is: what is the scum meta? If I’m going by my theory, do scum soft claim when they are not in danger of being lynched? Seems they would only do it at L1. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but the words he’s used (wasted vote, mistake, irresponsible) has me thinking differently. And that’s why I was asking about the scum meta and if this is something that they do or could do.

Here’s my thinking:

Based on the ratio, which is 7:2, getting it wrong and lynching a townie on Day 1 is not that big of a mistake. I got lynched Day 1 my last game and the twin still won.

There can be a mislynch or two without it becoming completely unwinnable for town. I’d assume that townies would like to NOT get lynched sure, but not sure if they would say it’s a wasted vote or that it’s a mistake to vote for them or that’s it’s irresponsible, but that’s only my assumption.

[ItalianoVD]

*town still won.

[72offsuit]

@ Ydrasse: are you going to ISO anyone else?
Any particular reason for who you DID choose to ISO so far?

[TheThirteenthJT]

I feel like DoctorsPepper reentry has been NAI. He came back into the game with very weak posts, that is undeniable, but I dont necessary see it as scummy. I see it almost as a bit of disinterest. I hope he reenergizes and comes back strong this weekend. We are reaching deadline.

As irresponsible as this sounds, I'm not really super concerned with my lynch if town wants to make that mistake

I don't know, this last post here makes me feel uneasy about voting for DoctorPepper now. What is everyone else's thoughts about it? Scum

could

say it's a "mistake", but how likely?

Surely scum

would

say it's a mistake, unless they were throwing in the towel completely. Could you explain what you mean by "how likely"?

why does it make you uneasy that he’s saying he’s not a good vote @italiano?

I don’t know if DoctorPepper is playing mind games, but to me it seems like he might be trying to softclaim a special role.

And what I mean by how likely is: what is the scum meta? If I’m going by my theory, do scum soft claim when they are not in danger of being lynched? Seems they would only do it at L1. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but the words he’s used (wasted vote, mistake, irresponsible) has me thinking differently. And that’s why I was asking about the scum meta and if this is something that they do or could do.

Here’s my thinking:

Based on the ratio, which is 7:2, getting it wrong and lynching a townie on Day 1 is not that big of a mistake. I got lynched Day 1 my last game and the twin still won.

There can be a mislynch or two without it becoming completely unwinnable for town. I’d assume that townies would like to NOT get lynched sure, but not sure if they would say it’s a wasted vote or that it’s a mistake to vote for them or that’s it’s irresponsible, but that’s only my assumption.

That is pure speculation and very role fishy. And I disagree, lynching a townie day one while not gamebreaking, is still a mistake. It could change the outcome of the game and have a snowball effect causing town to lose. Ive said it as well, I dont want to be lynched either because the only thing Im 100% certain of is my alignment.

Anyways Im back and im actually wanting to move on from Uno UNVOTE: . I feel that at this point he has more to potentially look back on Day 2 over my second read.
VOTE: WaltertheDunce

Expanding my case on Walter in the next post.

At deadline Im ok with the following lynches
Walter, Mini, and DP. in that order
Secondary tier for me would still be UNO.

Mini replaced into a very tough spot for their first game. Unfortunately we still have not gotten a lot from this slot.
While I did state my point on DP being NAI on reentry but it will end up being activity for me on this wagon which can change with strong posts in the next few days.

[72offsuit]

As irresponsible as this sounds, I'm not really super concerned with my lynch if town wants to make that mistake

I don't know, this last post here makes me feel uneasy about voting for DoctorPepper now. What is everyone else's thoughts about it? Scum

could

say it's a "mistake", but how likely?

Surely scum

would

say it's a mistake, unless they were throwing in the towel completely. Could you explain what you mean by "how likely"?

why does it make you uneasy that he’s saying he’s not a good vote @italiano?

I don’t know if DoctorPepper is playing mind games, but to me it seems like he might be trying to softclaim a special role.

And what I mean by how likely is: what is the scum meta? If I’m going by my theory, do scum soft claim when they are not in danger of being lynched? Seems they would only do it at L1. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but the words he’s used (wasted vote, mistake, irresponsible) has me thinking differently. And that’s why I was asking about the scum meta and if this is something that they do or could do.

Here’s my thinking:

Based on the ratio, which is 7:2, getting it wrong and lynching a townie on Day 1 is not that big of a mistake. I got lynched Day 1 my last game and the twin still won.

There can be a mislynch or two without it becoming completely unwinnable for town. I’d assume that townies would like to NOT get lynched sure, but not sure if they would say it’s a wasted vote or that it’s a mistake to vote for them or that’s it’s irresponsible, but that’s only my assumption.

I dont see anything that comes close to resembling a soft of any sort here in this game.

You are basically saying you will never lynch anyone that you think has posted anything even remotely looking like a PR soft.
So basically you are going to 100% of the time just lynch a vanilla town on day 1, and never lynch scum.

[TheThirteenthJT]

My case on Walter.


Walter has been making short and quick posts, saying little bits here and there and then zooming out. Just enough to keep him in conversation but also enoguh to let others go at it while he remains unscathed. Pairing this with how quickly he has been ready to jump on forming wagons its almost as if he is not trying to solve the game and just piggyride. He did this with Drpepper(no vote), 72(vote), Pii(vote), Me (No vote). Similarly he is afraid to lead wagons which might crumble and fall back on him. The only exception has been 72 but overall was quick to leave it when he got very little support of it. In fact his only reason for that vote was due my prompt when asking 72 for his purpose to the question. His follow up to that was saying he had not seen that in 72's previous games and when I proved that wrong his reply was "K, thanks." His unvote was also very weak 196. Simply 72 has seemed more town, I am now interested in the inactive slot. Once he gained support for that wagon he put his vote on it.

At some point in the game I did find walter towny. There was almost an innocence about him and the way he was posting that made me feel like a true newbie finding scum. But as the day progress those feelings have faded and everything about him seems suspect. He has been active enough to not be called on about it but at the same time failed to deliver any substance making him feel as if he was very inactive.

While Mini falls under similar categories, I feel a lot was out of their control vs Walter who has been through entire game. I want to see more from them as well before even considering switching my vote away from Walter.

Mini, how do you feel coming into that slot with already high pressure and what made you want to take it over?

Also walter, Piis slot (Inactivty) was also always in the null section with DP (low activity, early scum vibes thats fade) and Guiltylion(Has not done anything majorly scummy in my eyes.). The Ydrasse (Meta reasons. Not enough conviction in their posts like our previous game. Almost flying unnoticed) Italiano(Survivalist vibes (for me understandable) and I keep reading post 177 as a gambit possibly initiated by them or an experienced partner. Yes I believe UNO falls under experience categry based on their play.) 72 (Metaing him has been the hardest. Very strong and straightforward style that can give off scum vibes at time but also come off as too confident to be scum. A lot of my scum vibe on them comes with the experienced player theory for me. Im having a hard time trusting 72.) This section could have better been worded as minor Scum lean. While you and Uno were my major scumreads.

[GuiltyLion]

I actually also thought those looked like softs from DoctorPepper. At the very least, it's bravado meant to scare people away from voting him. I find them to be scummy posts

[GuiltyLion]

He came back into the game with very weak posts, that is undeniable, but I dont necessary see it as scummy. I see it almost as a bit of disinterest.

why do you assume the disinterest isn't indicative? I think most players, as town, have interest in lynching correctly and influencing the thread in the direction they want. I think scum are more likely not to want to rock the boat or do too much, and make safe/bland posts on entry. 72offsuit also made a meta argument that DoctorPepper is makes weaker posts as scum.

[Ydrasse]

As irresponsible as this sounds, I'm not really super concerned with my lynch if town wants to make that mistake

I don't know, this last post here makes me feel uneasy about voting for DoctorPepper now. What is everyone else's thoughts about it? Scum

could

say it's a "mistake", but how likely?

Surely scum

would

say it's a mistake, unless they were throwing in the towel completely. Could you explain what you mean by "how likely"?

why does it make you uneasy that he’s saying he’s not a good vote @italiano?

I don’t know if DoctorPepper is playing mind games, but to me it seems like he might be trying to softclaim a special role.

And what I mean by how likely is: what is the scum meta? If I’m going by my theory, do scum soft claim when they are not in danger of being lynched? Seems they would only do it at L1. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but the words he’s used (wasted vote, mistake, irresponsible) has me thinking differently. And that’s why I was asking about the scum meta and if this is something that they do or could do.

Here’s my thinking:

Based on the ratio, which is 7:2, getting it wrong and lynching a townie on Day 1 is not that big of a mistake. I got lynched Day 1 my last game and the twin still won.

There can be a mislynch or two without it becoming completely unwinnable for town. I’d assume that townies would like to NOT get lynched sure, but not sure if they would say it’s a wasted vote or that it’s a mistake to vote for them or that’s it’s irresponsible, but that’s only my assumption.

to be honest, i don't agree with you here that he's trying to soft anything. i think that his response was, as town, "oh you're going to regret lynching me because i am town." as scum, it's a defense that's supposed to make people think twice before actually lynching him. it's something that can be done as either alignment and it doesn't really impact how i'm reading dp currently.

@ Ydrasse: are you going to ISO anyone else?
Any particular reason for who you DID choose to ISO so far?

i am trying to iso everyone! i did them based on what i thought was easiest at the time by virtue of post count, etc. the ones i have left are the ones i feel i need to dedicate more time to reading.

[GuiltyLion]

I actually also thought those looked like softs from DoctorPepper. At the very least, it's bravado meant to scare people away from voting him. I find them to be scummy posts

more on this, 55 looked to me much more like an attempt at a soft. That's part of why I initially townread him. I became suspicious of his intentions when he later walked that back in 245.

The second rendition in 395, I can see it both ways - either as a soft or something he can walk back and say "I wasn't softing, just saying lynching me is bad" like he already did once. I completely agree with Italiano that this gives him room to claim a PR if he's put under fire, however I think it's more likely he's scum doing that given the rest of his play.

If he's a PR I'm wrong, but I think they're definitely posts solely with the agenda of making us uncomfortable about voting him and altogether less likely to be town posts.

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: DoctorPepper

i'm okay with this, and i don't think it's a soft at all. mini is currently an acceptable wagon. going to try and knock out more isos tonight.

[GuiltyLion]

I'd probably bet the game on Italiano, 72offsuit, and UNOwen being town

Ydrasse and Walter are town most of the time, but I'd be thinking if I'm getting snowed by scum, they're more likely than the first three.

MiniMegabyte is a tossup, but I stand by their doubling down on not having any scumreads outside of TTJT as being loosely town-indicative.

Which leaves TTJT/DoctorPepper which I think is the team. We have TTJT at 3 votes and DocPepper at 2, I don't see a point of switching right at this moment, but happy to go with DocPep if UNOWen/Walter prefer to go there.