Mini Normal 2148 (Post Game)

[Porkens]

Morning! Will catch up soonest

[Porkens]

Bob, i still scumread bm/clidd/pork. Just couldn't do much while the slot was vacant

Tato be a gem and explain why this slot is so universally scumread pls?

[Porkens]

Ok I’m all caught up through page 1. Dr Pepper and not science had the scummiest entrances, and hk is a townlean.

[Porkens]

Page 2 farside good, ghost bad, mal ping scum, hk’s vote on farside terrible.

[Porkens]

Vanilla town

[Porkens]

I’ll do my best to catch up and post tonight

[Porkens]

ok here I go

[Porkens]

Up through page 6, time to eat dinner. Dunnstral is not looking good.

[Porkens]

Working on it!

[Porkens]

HOKAY!
I skimmed the shit out of the last 17 pages or so, as it’s getting late.

Here’s the deal:

The scumteam lies within geraintm, stungun, dunnstral, bob, and tato.

The push on GC that tato hopped on was literally pure garbage. Reads progression somehow becomes machinations. And despite the fact that GC fairly fought off the push, it keeps recurring. Stun and gerain both defend dunnstral. Bob has a TR on Dunn for some reason (also bob almost never expresses any reads, never commits). Gerain started playing and came in at a key moment, around 623

That being said, I have a real tinfoil hat read on an alternate universe team of DP, GC, and Malkittens.

Other stuff:
Farside, Crayons (ignoring my hat), notsci, and HK all read very town to me. I don’t see a universe where hk is scum.

Notmaf is being very notmaf.

So there you have it, you are welcome, I’m going to bed!


VOTE: dunnstrall

[Porkens]

And Mala's kinda right. It's time we start settling on a lynch, with 13 hours left in the day, and I don't think this day phase will go anywhere than Porkens, unfortunately.

Thus, VOTE: Porkens

Unless anyone has any reason to think this day phase could possibly lead to another lynch,

There is a 1 ONE vote difference between me and your biggest scumread but “unfortunately” that’s just insurmountable? Also, he says

nothing

about the substance.

VOTE: porkens

Consolidating at this point

Consolidate elsewhere, the idea that there can’t be any other lynch is false. Again, Dunn has 1 less vote than I do.


Lynching Dunn will tell us a lot. There are clear associativas. BM tarnishes this slot so badly what do you learn about anything? Keep me around you won’t regret it.

[Porkens]

literally 11 of your last 21 posts were responses to me. are you focusing on me and no one else?

I don't think anyone else is really talking to me much, s i'll reply when talked to

Why do you trust Dunn?

[Porkens]

The point seems valid if not belabored.

I concede that it does provide votato cover as well. Lots of people scumread votato and BM was low hanging fruit on that “wagon”

Then again I’m not convinced Bm actually scumread votato. His post aren’t indicative of someone paying terribly much attention.

[Porkens]

Aggressive doesn’t = scum. I townread GC largely based on his behavior in regards to the SW debacle and how he responded to you shit case against him. The only thing I hard disagree with him about is his scumread of farside.

[Porkens]

My pool is a mix of three factors:

Ger+stun circa 274
Stun+Dunn+vot circa 389 (targeting GC)
Bob circa the first 30pages not expressing one firm read then calling Dunn town. Also votato and stun both have bob town.

[Porkens]

Hmm, one more thought I'd like to put out there right now.

I think it is highly unlikely scum is aiding us towards a lynch right now given that the wagon of Porkens has only 3 votes, and I think if they were really pushing someone, there would be a majority with more than 3 votes right now.

Thus, it is highly unlikely there is more than one scum on the Porkens lynch right now, and if I am reading this right they may all be town (Mala, bob, Vot? (still have a slight question mark there, but this does provide a little reason to believe he is town).

Funny, I count three scum on my wagon

[Porkens]

Always a possibility, and like I said I am somewhat of two minds. If Dunn were to somehow flip town (he won’t) then a big chunk of my theory goes out the window and my tinfoil hat reads pick up some bandwidth.

Actually have questions for you stun. Which post initially changed your mind on GC? Somewhere around 445? Same questions about Dunn, in reverse.


P.edit THERE IS NO EARTHLY REASON WHY DUNN CANT BE LYNCHED INSTEAD. People on my wagon who are lamenting how unfortunate it is that I have to be the lynch or calling me a consolidation lynch are active RIGHT NOW and could switch to Dunn. It would be just as easy to get 2 votes within 8 hours on him.

The people wagoning me since this morning are choosing to do so over other options. It’s only inevitable if you want it to be.

[Porkens]

I know that’s the follow-up explanation but I’m asking more about your thought process and when you initially moved from town reading GC to the scumread, which you backfilled later with ISO reads.

Cutting to the chase, you hopped off dunn for a flimsy reason, and got on GC as an “elsewhere wagon” but as far as I recall, you had till then not expressed scumleans on GC. When questioned, you gave reasons but it felt like digging for points to support your proported scumread rather than a scumread based on points.

[Porkens]

What prompted you to start iso reads when Dunn was the strongest wagon (which you were on?)

[Porkens]

Why did you feel the need to delay and strategically strengthen your argument? Were you that convinced Dunn was town? How about Germaine or battlemage at that point, how was GC scummier than either?

[Porkens]

You’re playing both sides of the game here. You say the GC counter wagons was for reactions and also ten posts later that it’s this well-developed scumread.

You can give yourself permission to manipulate as many times as you like. I have read but have not internalized your self meta, no.

You also scumread votato, no? Yet you picked GC. And here we are back at my theory.

I will say this, if you are town, you are at least working hard.

Dunn is the correct lynch today. Tells us the most.

[Porkens]

Ok, say you are town. What did you make for f votato sheeping you on GC

[Porkens]

*make of

[Porkens]

Votato those reads are insane what do you base them on?

Stun, if you scumread HK we are light years apart here.

[Porkens]

Votato, I misread the last read, that one is fine in theory. However inconsistent with your previous stances. Why did you hop on the GC wagon like that?

Farside well I fucking care! Dunn is nothing but scum this game, the countereagon onto GC, the sheeping from tato, the free pass to ger. remember all this while you settle on my corpse. Jesus Christ.

[Porkens]

@mod I request that you add 24 hours to the dayclock out of consideration for my replacing in

[Porkens]

Porkens, do you have any meta where you have been lynched on D1 or close to being lynched as (preferably both alignments)? I just want to look at it and see if I spot anything.

Oh god there must be a million. Can’t dig through at the moment but will follow up

[Porkens]

Finally home from work and post office.

Thank you for the extra time all. In response to this:

<snip...>

Did you actually say why Dunn is worth your vote here? I don’t think so.


Also tell me more about these “clear associatives” that would come with a Dunn flip.

Dunn’s got a

very

good chance of flipping scum, and everyone has shared reads of him one way or the other, including a small group of defenders. That will tell us a lot.

I have a solid townread on HK and Dunn’s vote there is a safe non-starter, which I think he knows. His vote’s there, but he isn’t doing anything to make it happen, I’m guessing because he doesn’t really want to present an alternative to my mislynch, which seemed pretty certain after clidd ghosted.

Dunn’s commentary in 822 also rubs me the wrong way. He’s casting shade on GC (and tato) without actually challenging him. (I also TR GC. I can understand the scum read on BM, and even though it's wrong I read GC as scum hunting and the votes there really don't make much sense to me.)

Finally, he’s been active lurking and trolling all day.

-----

I'd be ok lynching votato, but it really won't tell us as much as Dunn.

[Porkens]

I think he has you pocketed.

[Porkens]

interacting and calling you town

Spoiler:

Town or scum im enjoying hk-50 commitment for posting style.

He's scum with votato, but I'll let him live for being amusing

Why? I don't think it really is going to change how we read him.

Its how I play its not gonna change

You can’t just tell me not to do something and then expect me not to do that thing

Besides that wasn’t really a game relevant topic so I’m not really sure why it matters I agreed with it

Why is votato part of this sentence?

I vaguely saw his first post as a partner post

You can’t just tell me not to do something and then expect me not to do that thing

That's how the real world works

That's what you get for being passive on page 1

Did you learn your lesson from animal mafia or do you really think NS is scummy?

What lesson applies here?

Ideal world=/=the real world

I agree with farside's above post

My case is that his posts suck and he has no reason for his vote in the first place

Beetle juice

I wouldn't say he's town, just that he's acted like this as town before and so i don't think he's scummy

Notscience feels town

farside is scummy

Is that the only other read that you have. That you think mala is scum and battle reminds you of one of his town games?


These are the players on your wagon so far:

DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, notscience, stungun0404

And the below are on your one claimed town read

Not_Mafia, votato, Green Crayons

While your one scum read is on vot.


And since if you are town you would know that your town. What do you read of the players on the wagons that you know or think or town. And at the same time the wagon of the player that your scum read mala is pushing


corrected a bit of the gramma

I don't have a read on Not_Mafia or votato. Green Crayons is null.

[Porkens]

Finally home from work and post office.

Thank you for the extra time all. In response to this:

<snip...>

Did you actually say why Dunn is worth your vote here? I don’t think so.


Also tell me more about these “clear associatives” that would come with a Dunn flip.

Dunn’s got a

very

good chance of flipping scum, and everyone has shared reads of him one way or the other, including a small group of defenders. That will tell us a lot.

I have a solid townread on HK and Dunn’s vote there is a safe non-starter, which I think he knows. His vote’s there, but he isn’t doing anything to make it happen, I’m guessing because he doesn’t really want to present an alternative to my mislynch, which seemed pretty certain after clidd ghosted.

Dunn’s commentary in 822 also rubs me the wrong way. He’s casting shade on GC (and tato) without actually challenging him. (I also TR GC. I can understand the scum read on BM, and even though it's wrong I read GC as scum hunting and the votes there really don't make much sense to me.)

Finally, he’s been active lurking and trolling all day.

-----

I'd be ok lynching votato, but it really won't tell us as much as Dunn.

Okay. I think you're scum.

I commend the pivot to hard reading me as town. I instinctively don't want to lynch someone who does that.

But I don't think this Dunn suspicion is natural. Dunn was tied for the second bw (with me, who also had 2 votes), and I think you decided to try to push and focus on Dunn because he already had some votes and he hasn't nearly been a pain in the ass like I have. I say that because I don't think your suspicions are legitimate.

For starters, you didn't give suspicions originally for your Dunn vote.

And now it comes down:

- to pushing a non-starter wagon on HK--but it's no more of a nonstarter than farside trying to vote GC, as stun is happy with both a HK and GC vote but nobody else is
- picking one post (that conveniently defends me) with an okay theory, but would need some plenty more work to be a banner case
- uses buzzwords "active lurking and trolling," neither of which I think are accurate; he hasn't beetlejuiced and he isn't a troll player


I'm also not convinced that Dunn gives us great associative tells any more than other players who have been the thread's topic of conversation. You're pretty nonspecific on that point, which I admit is generally NAI, but I would think that if this was legitimate point you would have *some* specific examples in mind.

VOTE: Porkens

I guess if you can sincerely pull a townread off Dunn here that’s that. I’m not going to be able to convince you water is wet. But if you want to call me scummy for suspecting Dunn you’ve got a looong list of names above and below mine.

This is (was) farside’s town game and you are trying to compare her to Dunn. These pieces don’t go together.

[Porkens]

Why do you refer to yourself in the third person?

You don’t think Dunn has been active lurking or trolling? You are not making a great case for yourself here. This is almost as bad as stunguns original case on you.

[Porkens]

Porkens level with me is your main reason for your stance on Dunn self preservation? I don’t really think it’s inherently scummy to be self preserving- as town you only know yourself to be town but everyone else has a 1/4 chance. There’s some weird stuff you’ve posted I don’t like but I’m curious.

Pedit
Why is bob town to both of you?

And no shit all the scum aren’t hyper active I’m townreading most of them pretty solidly

Pedit
You can read flip on me if you want but I’m here to try hard now

Lynching Dunn will preserve me, but that’s not the reason I’m pushing for his Lynch. I have my theory of the scumteam and he’s the keystone. I wanna pull it out.

[Porkens]

Whoever is townreading not mafia can you walk me through it? I’m not really seeing any alignment tells through his posting or lack there of it’s kinda hard to read a tunnel

It’s shitty but I just feel like that’s his meta.

[Porkens]

The scumteam lies within geraintm, stungun, dunnstral, bob, and tato.

part one is relationship between geraintm and stungun early day. There's a little banter, a little theory craft, and a little distancing. It connected them in my mind.

part two is stungun's terrible case on GC, which votato said "I AGREE VOTE" because it was in his favor to do so.

part three is Dunn does squat all day.

part four is that Stun and Gerain both (and fairly uniquely) defend (not just townread) Dunn. (bob is scummy on his own and also hops on the Dunn TR team)

part five is that Gerain only really started to play when Dunn was the leading wagon, and argued strongly against it at the expense of stungun. later, when Dunn was no longer likely to be lynched, grerain changed his stungun read to town.

It's a wide net, and I'm certain to be wrong on 2, I could even be wrong on 3, but I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong on 4 - there is two scum in this pile. Dunn is the worst of them.



p. edit it was just my read - you two had early beef it seemed to me, I thought you were scum reading him, nd then he called you town at some point. Since then things seem to be cool between you. very possible I'm reading too much into it.

[Porkens]

AH so your Dunn read is akin to my Not Maf read.
"reeevabt"?

The hat case is silly; based largely on these:

Spoiler:

I kinda have to agree with Dunn that I saw Vot’s post regarding HK50 as a “why do they know so much about his posting style”

lol @ suspecting this as scummy

I think Mala isn't scum for not knowing a video game reference from Star Wars. Hell I am a fan and I didn't get it

I think Mala's 90 is a good post. Idk I would think scum would be quite brash and adamant in their posting so I think Mala is town for admitting to the rocky start

I am not liking painting her as scum for this interaction. Not a fan of the votes on her and the person leading it

VOTE: Dunnstral

Why go out of their way to defend Mal here? part of me says the simplest explanation is that they are scum together. LIKE I SAID ITS SILLY

[Porkens]

Really? I'm the worst name on the list in 1376 when you can write about how every other person is scummy but you can't pull anything from my own posts to scumread me off of

your iso is fluff and bluff, there's nothing from which to pull I do not see how others don't see that.

[Porkens]

tl;dr pigman scumreads me for lurking and then every other reason is something somebody else has done. Why don't you lynch that person instead?

like I said, you are the keystone - you link them all together.

[Porkens]

How do you know it couldn’t be white knighting?

And it’s relevant autocorrect is selectively useful

Can we establish a mutual understanding of "white knighting" before we follow this path of inquiry?

[Porkens]

well yes, in that case lynching Dunn would turn out kind of shit.

[Porkens]

This is (was) farside’s town game and you are trying to compare her to Dunn. These pieces don’t go together.

I'm saying your suspicions of Dunn (voting HK as a vanity cw) are equally applicable to farside (voting GC as a vanity cw).

I'm not making the point to say you should read farside as scum.

I'm making the point because--as you read farside as town--it suggests your suspicion of Dunn on this basis manufactured rather than legitimate.

I understood your point but you missed mine. It’s about context. Farside was not a serious lynch possibility, and a vote on you aligns with a going theory. Dunn was, at that time, a candidate for lynch and there’s no steam (or good reason) to lynch HK.

WHY do you write about yourself in the third person?

[Porkens]

I understood your point but you missed mine. It’s about context. Farside was not a serious lynch possibility, and a vote on you aligns with a going theory. Dunn was, at that time, a candidate for lynch and there’s no steam (or good reason) to lynch HK.

I don't understand what you're saying.

You think farside is town. Why are you saying that she is "not a serious lynch possibility"?

How much interest was there to lynch her when she voted HK?

[Porkens]

My pool is a mix of three factors:

Ger+stun circa 274
Stun+Dunn+vot circa 389 (targeting GC)
Bob circa the first 30pages not expressing one firm read then calling Dunn town. Also votato and stun both have bob town.

273 and 274? Really, that's what ypive got?

Sorry for absence, wife's birthday here and hottest day of the year

This is so dismissive. What’s wrong with the case? Can you articulate in words? Can you point out where you have put in more analysis?

[Porkens]

I understood your point but you missed mine. It’s about context. Farside was not a serious lynch possibility, and a vote on you aligns with a going theory. Dunn was, at that time, a candidate for lynch and there’s no steam (or good reason) to lynch HK.

I don't understand what you're saying.

You think farside is town. Why are you saying that she is "not a serious lynch possibility"?

Oh I see, this isn't coming from your perspective about who is a good lynch candidate. You're speaking from the perspective of farside and Dunn.

How is going for a vanity bw AI depending on the pressure on that person pushing for the bw?

Sorry didn’t see this before I responded previously.

Its the context that is AI. Dunn was parking his vote on a nogo wagon at a time when he was under scrutiny. That’s a “safe” vote, right?

Farside wasn’t voting GC to be “safe”

[Porkens]

I’m not voting you yet mala but I’m worried my fears are true

No, I’m town I’m just having a rocky start.

Mala o have a general townread on, votes on clidd and Dunn were fine. A thing that really sticks out to was that post after initial case on the “partners HK and votato” got so blown up.
“No I’m town” is something I’ve used as scum when almost lynched d1.

[Porkens]

Its the context that is AI. Dunn was parking his vote on a nogo wagon at a time when he was under scrutiny. That’s a “safe” vote, right?

I don't see how a scum under pressure is more inclined to vote someone that's not going to get traction (what's the benefit? people think it's *so* bland that it's town?), rather than voting for someone who will get traction (benefit being pressure shifting away).

It gives the appearance of doing something while preventing the opportunity for town to learn anything.

[Porkens]

My pool is a mix of three factors:

Ger+stun circa 274
Stun+Dunn+vot circa 389 (targeting GC)
Bob circa the first 30pages not expressing one firm read then calling Dunn town. Also votato and stun both have bob town.

273 and 274? Really, that's what ypive got?

Sorry for absence, wife's birthday here and hottest day of the year

This is so dismissive. What’s wrong with the case? Can you articulate in words? Can you point out where you have put in more analysis?

Did you read my 273. It was a joke. Nothing more. There was zero content to it. It was meant to have zero content. How anyone can get a read from it baffles me

I don’t understand the joke, explain it to me. Why go out of your way to post exactly zero content?

[Porkens]

I’m at work refreshing when I can just to keep up. Germ is fine, surprised you called him out. probably means stun is not teamed and therefor Dunn doesn’t give as much info . Still don’t like tato also but either way I thinks is good.

[Porkens]

OK, if you vote germ he'll be in the majority. Are you willing to flip there from Dunn, putting us 3 votes away from a lynch there, and making it easier to secure a lynch there?

Ok that’s fine VOTE: ger

[Porkens]

Can switch to tato if it comes to that

[Porkens]

Another decent part of this is it will tell us something about GC I think

[Porkens]

Sorry for replacing out, good job Bob and Doctor PP.

*ahem*

[Porkens]

In all honesty, I lost interest because of the mod error, as I felt like a failure of a host. I felt like I took too much time, and relied too much on my backup mod, even for a first time host (on this site, that is.)
This site is a serious and dedicated mafia site, and after this game, I probably won't host for awhile. I entirely understand Maxwell's lashing out, and they are not the main reason why I'm stepping away from this site altogether for awhile. (You might catch me in the mishmash category.)

It was a little mistake in the great scheme of things. Don’t be too hard on yourself, but do take time if you need it.

No one asked me what I think, but imo if it’s in the thread it’s fair game unless it breaks some rule.

Huge mega props to Bob and DP for this masterfully played scumgame, especially to bob who fought the long war and carried us home.

[Porkens]

Thank you clidd it was fun!