Micro 986 - The Coalition: PIFoMP [game over!]

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actually looking forward to the rest of your reads Dostin.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@farren @vander @ norwee i will trust whatever u 3 will vote on the majority to be the final trusted actually

This could take a while. Fortunately, we have plenty of time left.

Yeah but if the coalition is wrong then the time does not reset. So we should at least make sure we have some time to think if by chance our coalition is wrong.

[dostin]

I think tris is IN BETWEEN because she doesn't really explain herself very much and it is hard to know what she is thinking since she usually only gives her opinions when somebody else gives an opinion she agrees with. I don't know why she thinks I am scum because she has never really explained that, for example. But there is nothing about tris that makes me think they are scum either it's just that there is nothing that really makes me think they are town except that I am not really suspicious of them. Their tone of voice sounds a little bit towny but that is very hard to tell for sure.

I think NorwegianboyEE is SCUM because at the start of the game he was way too emotional and defensive and tunneled on an obviously pointless post which was Mystic Bear's first page coalition. He also then started calling me scum and all I was doing was asking questions which he mostly ignored but both people who were pushing against him he said were scum. There are a few times where Norwegianboy acted very opportunistic, like in post #346 when he decided he wouldn't make any reads posts even though because he wanted me to do that he knows that that is a very useful way of knowing what somebody thinks and deciding if their thoughts are real or not. In this first stage of the game in this setup town should be wanting other people to be able to see that they are town but Norwegianboy's goals were just to defend himself and make people (Mystic Bear and me) look bad for thinking he is scum. I don't think post #450 is being very honest because up to that point all he had done was try to defend himself against Mystic Bear, and saying that they're not "super duper town" sounds like he is accidentally admitting they are town but shouldn't think that they are as obvious as they think they are. I also don't like how he refuses accountability again by following along with Mystic Bear's coalition even if he disagrees with it which reminds me of him refusing to give a readslist.

I think StarToAYoungCulture is TOWNY even though it is hard to tell when someone is not really taking the game very seriously so not very strongly towny. I think it is interesting that nobody else is focussing on town co-operation as much as STAYC is. I don't think scum would latch onto other people's lists like STAYC does without trying to influence them at all. I don't think they are very towny but I don't think mafia would want to play the way that STAYC is playing at all.

I think JacksonVirgo(Scooby) is TOWN because they both have been very very (especially Scooby) open and honest about their reads and opinions and even about things they don't know. Both of them also have a very towny tone in their posts that doesn't sound faked to me. If Jackson's readslist in post #719 was fake then I don't think they would have left any rankings empty like they did, unless that is a template that they usually use in games and just copies and pastes it into a catchup post.

[dostin]

HEAL: dostin
HEAL: Farren
HEAL: JacksonVirgo
HEAL: Mystic Bear
HEAL: StarToAYoungCulture
HURT: tris
HURT: bugspray
HURT: Vanderscamp
HURT: NorwegianboyEE
UNVOTE:

[NorwegianboyEE]

Thanks for the reads Dostin.
Though i mostly just asked you for easier associations if you’re scum.

[Vanderscamp]

Will be catching up vaguely soon

[tris]

Looking at JacksonVirgo. Comparing to Scooby.

They look like they're approaching things from a completely different perspective than Scooby did. Total shift in reads, attitude, everything. Like, you'd expect an attitude change from a different person in the seat, but they look like they're genuinely reading through and coming to conclusions rather than continuing to push Scooby's agenda. That's a good sign.

JacksonVirgo: you mentioned tris's sheeping as a reason to scumread her, and she's clearly your worst read. Why her over STAYC, given that STAYC's been more blatant about sheeping?

Generally tone is what separates the two, tris’s tone seems way too pockety for my liking.

who am i pocketing?

Mystic mainly, and you've been semi-shading Norwe but the latter is probably a SR of yours so it's neglible

uh, have you read my most recent posts? i might townread norwee

[tris]

As a quickie.

thank you for doing my job for me while i was sleeping, bears

I initially saw this as semi-pocketing Bears and also backup up their ass for not producing much content (and tris is pretty fluffy).

what i was taking about there is how I usually try to cause a big ruckus in RVS, but bear got the ball rolling already.

omg this is so exciting! we really are going to get the day 1 win aren't we!!!

I see this as overly confident, I get that people can be confident in their reads as I am with mine but this is just an exaggeration.

i wasn't super confident in reads there. but, i absorbed the optimism bear was displaying about getting the day 1 win. whatever the coalition ends up being in the end.

So you were faking optimism on the last bit? Can I ask why you would do that instead of trying to get a coalition of your own that you are more confident in?

no no no. i was not faking optimism. i was feeling optimistic because the optimism of bear was rubbing off on me. i didn't have super confident reads at the moment, but i just had a blind optimism for the future. and i was trying to form my own coalition. i wasn't sheeping anyone. my townreads were my own. when i said we were going to win day 1, it wasn't because of any particular read.

[tris]

Dostin has had really townie posts that I've kinda mind-melded with. I think 560 doesn't come from scum naturally and is an actual genuine post I thinks. Their posts have been full of logic that I can follow if I didn't know specific playstyles

Onto posts that I didn't quote in my catchup (as I am searching their iso in case I've been reading them in a skewed way). 377 is another post that just bleeds genuinity, it feels like they're generally annoyed at NEE's logic. Also to clarify, just because I agree with some logic doesn't mean I follow the logic. 561 pings me that they're actually frustrated with how NEE is playing if they're Town which is a genuine thought process instead of Norwegian is scum because X, Y and Z so wagon them.

i don't see it at all. although, i do think that he probably did genuinely disagree with norway's logic, it's just he could easily disagree as scum as well.

Do you scum-read dostin? If so can you tell me why you do?

yes i do. and, i've talked about it before.

[tris]

I don't know why she thinks I am scum because she has never really explained that, for example.

but i did. as i just mentioned a moment ago

[NorwegianboyEE]

Spoiler:

I think Vanderscamp is SCUMMY even though I thought they were pretty towny before but after reading all of their posts together I don't think they ever really thought Norwegianboy is scum, it looks like they just wanted everyone and Norwegianboy to think that but their progression against Norwegianboy is weird and I don't know how to really explain why but I will try. Every single time Vanderscamp says something about why Norwegainboy is scummy, in that very same post they always say something about how he might actually be town, or they make one concession and then explain their thoughts as if that concession never even happened and was just for show like in post #174. That whole time even though now they said they think he is town, that whole time they never really interacted with other parts of the game that Norwegianboy was interacting with. It feels like they just wanted to have a scumread on Norwegianboy because maybe it felt right to them as mafia pretending to have real reads.

I think NorwegianboyEE is SCUM because at the start of the game he was way too emotional and defensive and tunneled on an obviously pointless post which was Mystic Bear's first page coalition. He also then started calling me scum and all I was doing was asking questions which he mostly ignored but both people who were pushing against him he said were scum. There are a few times where Norwegianboy acted very opportunistic, like in post #346 when he decided he wouldn't make any reads posts even though because he wanted me to do that he knows that that is a very useful way of knowing what somebody thinks and deciding if their thoughts are real or not. In this first stage of the game in this setup town should be wanting other people to be able to see that they are town but Norwegianboy's goals were just to defend himself and make people (Mystic Bear and me) look bad for thinking he is scum. I don't think post #450 is being very honest because up to that point all he had done was try to defend himself against Mystic Bear, and saying that they're not "super duper town" sounds like he is accidentally admitting they are town but shouldn't think that they are as obvious as they think they are. I also don't like how he refuses accountability again by following along with Mystic Bear's coalition even if he disagrees with it which reminds me of him refusing to give a readslist.

The explanations of these two reads are contradictory.
You claim Vanderscamp is scummy because their read on me is fake, but if that's the case. Isn't that showing it more likely for me to be town? Yet that's not the conclusion you reach in an later paragraph, i'm thinking you just need to have your read on me go this way at all cost because i'm one of the main people pushing against having you in the block right now.

[JacksonVirgo]

Looking at JacksonVirgo. Comparing to Scooby.

They look like they're approaching things from a completely different perspective than Scooby did. Total shift in reads, attitude, everything. Like, you'd expect an attitude change from a different person in the seat, but they look like they're genuinely reading through and coming to conclusions rather than continuing to push Scooby's agenda. That's a good sign.

JacksonVirgo: you mentioned tris's sheeping as a reason to scumread her, and she's clearly your worst read. Why her over STAYC, given that STAYC's been more blatant about sheeping?

Generally tone is what separates the two, tris’s tone seems way too pockety for my liking.

who am i pocketing?

Mystic mainly, and you've been semi-shading Norwe but the latter is probably a SR of yours so it's neglible

uh, have you read my most recent posts? i might townread norwee

I get that, but I'm not talking about your most recent posts. At the time I was catching up, you were pocketing Mystic and were not TRing Norwegian, or if you were you are likely scum as your posts did not align with that read early on.

[JacksonVirgo]

no no no. i was not faking optimism. i was feeling optimistic because the optimism of bear was rubbing off on me. i didn't have super confident reads at the moment, but i just had a blind optimism for the future. and i was trying to form my own coalition. i wasn't sheeping anyone. my townreads were my own. when i said we were going to win day 1, it wasn't because of any particular read.

Alright, so what would be your solve right now?

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll respond to the long bois soon

[tris]

no no no. i was not faking optimism. i was feeling optimistic because the optimism of bear was rubbing off on me. i didn't have super confident reads at the moment, but i just had a blind optimism for the future. and i was trying to form my own coalition. i wasn't sheeping anyone. my townreads were my own. when i said we were going to win day 1, it wasn't because of any particular read.

Alright, so what would be your solve right now?

me/you/vanderscamp/bear/one other that i'm not quite sure on currently have farren in that slot. although, i haven't thought about my vander read in a while, so i should check that. ugh, i meant to get to the full read of norwee, but i still haven't.

[Datisi]

Prodding Mystic Bear.

[bugspray]

slot that i made a spreadsheet graph to explain hwy they should shut the fuck up is now being prodded oof

[Mystic Bear]

lol i thought we made posts recently but i guess now but in hydra chat we were talking abt treating this like a draft.


also im personally most sure on the 3 i have chosen so far im least sure of jackson/bugspray being town

[bugspray]

thats fine people are rarely sure that im town but then i say some shit at end of day and get nk'd and its just really weird

[Vanderscamp]

Alright!

[Vanderscamp]

Vote count 1.17

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-12-13 10:40:00).

coalition

tris [5]:

Vanderscamp, tris, Mystic Bear, JacksonVirgo, Farren

NorwegianboyEE [5]:

Vanderscamp, tris, Mystic Bear, JacksonVirgo, Farren

Farren [5]:

Farren, Mystic Bear, Vanderscamp, tris, JacksonVirgo

JacksonVirgo [5]:

NorwegianboyEE, Vanderscamp, dostin, Farren, JacksonVirgo

StarToAYoungCulture [5]:

NorwegianboyEE, Vanderscamp, dostin, Farren, JacksonVirgo

dostin [5]:

dostin, Mystic Bear, Vanderscamp, tris, Farren

Mystic Bear [4]:

Mystic Bear, Farren, JacksonVirgo, Vanderscamp

Vanderscamp [3]:

Vanderscamp, Mystic Bear, tris

bugspray [2]:

bugspray, NorwegianboyEE

execution

Mystic Bear [2]:

bugspray, MysticBear

NorwegianboyEE [2]:

tris, dostin

tris [1]:

JacksonVirgo

dostin [1]:

NorwegianboyEE

Not voting [3]:

Farren, Vanderscamp, StarToAYoungCulture

mod notes

~ i'm not counting 779 because StarToAYoungCulture's coalition was full
~ beep

flavour

This is a great image btw

[Vanderscamp]

@farren @vander @ norwee i will trust whatever u 3 will vote on the majority to be the final trusted actually

I'd put in tris.

[Vanderscamp]

I think bugspray is SCUMMY because they have barely said a single thing about what is going on in the game except for mentioning Norwegianboy and Mystic Bear (by far the two most active posters) a bunch of times without ever really giving any kind of meaningful commentary about what is actually going on. Like they latched onto the easiest most obvious thing in the thread to latch onto but doesn't have anything to add, just changes their read on both of them back and forth. I especially do not like post 620 because it makes me think that even when bugspray does give opinions maybe they are not even real.

I think Farren is TOWN because he started the game asking a lot of questions and actually following up on them and they seem like questions that Farren really wants an answer to in order to figure out the game. In his first few posts he asks questions that would make the first few pages he was catching up on easier to understand where scum could have just caught up and started playing without fully understanding every post. He waits for proper answers to his question like in post #469, and asks more questions to be more specific when he doesn't get a satisfying answer like in post #338, and seems determined to get real answers and mildly frustrated if he isn't able to get answers and piece everything together like in post #731 and post #970. I also like the pace of when he adds people to his coalition because it feels natural along with when he gets actual strong townreads.

I think Vanderscamp is SCUMMY even though I thought they were pretty towny before but after reading all of their posts together I don't think they ever really thought Norwegianboy is scum, it looks like they just wanted everyone and Norwegianboy to think that but their progression against Norwegianboy is weird and I don't know how to really explain why but I will try. Every single time Vanderscamp says something about why Norwegainboy is scummy, in that very same post they always say something about how he might actually be town, or they make one concession and then explain their thoughts as if that concession never even happened and was just for show like in post #174. That whole time even though now they said they think he is town, that whole time they never really interacted with other parts of the game that Norwegianboy was interacting with. It feels like they just wanted to have a scumread on Norwegianboy because maybe it felt right to them as mafia pretending to have real reads.

I think Mystic Bear is TOWNY because they had a lot of confidence at the very start of the game even though they were drawing lots of attention to themselves. They are often willing to completely change their coalition even when people have made a big stink about their list either complaining about it or following it so it looks like town whose reads are actually changing a lot and if they were scum I think they would try to be more strategic about changing their list because so many people trust them and will follow or at least scrutinize their lists. I also think scum would take the chance to say it was weird when Scooby copied that one post of theirs. I don't really care about them saying they will accept votes if their list is wrong I think that is pretty stupid but I don't think normally town or scum would say something like that. I do think it is a little weird that even thought I agreed with them about Norwegianboy at the whole start of the game there are a lot of things I thought was scummy that they didn't comment on, but that might have more to do with how they are approaching the game and being more aggressive and maybe trying to get an emotional reaction out of him instead of just calling out things that look a little weird.

I will do the rest when I can but I have to run out for a little bit right now. So far it is definitely helping me get back into the game.

This is a very weird analysis of me, I think it's pretty clear that I thought Norwegian was very scummy at the start of the game, and I wasn't waffling on it.
In recent days he hasn't been sounding scummy to me so I no longer have him as super strong scum.

I don't scum read you for this read though since I don't think I'm a natural target for scum to push on in this spot.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@farren @vander @ norwee i will trust whatever u 3 will vote on the majority to be the final trusted actually

I'd put in tris.

If you and Farren both suggest Tris then i'm fine with that.

[Vanderscamp]

HEAL: Jackson
HEAL: STAYC

Ultimately I still believe that asking whether or not scum have daychat was probably genuine.
I'm really not willing to put Farren in my circle because I think everything he's said so far has been null for his playstyle. He's definitely good enough to post like this as scum and I haven't seen anything from him I think is actively towny.