Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[RLotus]

Town
Duchess
RTP

Townlean
Datisi
GC
Andre
midway
VP Baltar

Null
Dunn
Elements
Testa
Harumi

Scum
Italiano

Decent chance I'm wrong on one of my townleans, I've got a lot.

We hit scum whenever yall are ready to vote Italiano.

[Dunnstral]

vp you do you but you're wrong about my meta

You can take a look at some of my town games if you're interested

[Datisi]

dunnstral, is that all you've got to say?

Datisi - Haven't figured out how to read this one. I think he's generally quite towny, but other people don't? Not rlly sure what to think.

Who thinks Datisi is scummy?

It’s crossed my mind. They seem over-explainy to me so far.

that is scummy in what way ... ?

re: datisi its a sorta complex question that involves reanalyzing and compartmentalizing my bizzare thought process. my brain tends to avoid hard questions so sorry.

don't worry about it, take a break and feel better, irl > dumb internet game, etc.

when you can, i'd like to hear the thought process, if you can lay it out without ~giving info~. also interested in why you put testa as top town.

[VP Baltar]

Let me catch up really quick, I’ll be around for a bit.

So your catch up after being gone for two days is three fairly weak reply posts and nothing much to say about the giant reads post your top scum read Elements just made?

I rescind my town read. Andres stock is falling fast.

[VP Baltar]

vp you do you but you're wrong about my meta

You can take a look at some of my town games if you're interested

I guess the only way to find out who is right is to run you up!

[VP Baltar]

GC also felt a bit townie, but the aggression on both sides of that dispute makes me suspicious.

Makes you suspicious of what exactly?

hot take but the top 3 wagons here are TvTvT

I think the likelihood they are all town seems quite low actually.

Italiano is opportunistic enough to just be bad scum here, but maybe elements has some thoughts to add on that since he caught him before.

Dunn's answers sound like they are coming from a vitamin salesman. "You will FEEEL younger, I swear."

Elements has been pretty absent, but I felt town there early.

"Absent" is an extremely generous way of describing Elements's thread activity at the time. Were you aware they were dodging my direct questions while continuing to interact with my wagon from the sidelines? There is substance in Elements's absence that you didn't touch on here at all.

I don't like the way you've approached RTP in this post. Rather than caring to understand how they've come to those conclusions, you show up to throw a little one-liner grease on the fire for each wagon and then drop it. What's your current read of RTP?

Re: GC - over aggression is way more likely to be a scum trait, imo. Scum are fake scum hunting, so will often push points past an obvious conclusion because that would mean the scum would then have to come up with an entirely new angle to push. That is work when you are scum. Town is way more relaxed because those lines of inquiry emerge naturally as a result of having no actual clue what is true and what is false.

That, of course, doesn't mean town can't be aggressive. I'm just looking at authenticity vs. manufactured outrage.

Re: "dodging" your questions and elements - I don't know what you want me to say. You think I should be hyped up about some interaction you're having with Elements? I don't remember reading anything of substance there, but maybe I skimmed it or it seemed boring to me. We're other players picking up on this? Or you think there is a reason I, in particular, should have noticed this?

My current read of RTP is lean town. I'm trying to recalibrate to the change in style by Koba. They are a very good player, and I tend to not assign concrete reads early in a game anyhow because I'm often wrong and need to stay flexible until I have a good working theory of the game. I try to especially stay flexible on players who are very good.

[midwaybear]

It’s crossed my mind. They seem over-explainy to me so far.

I'm pretty sure this is meta for him. TBH, I don't think I can read Datisi very well.

the most important takeaway is probably not the substance of the answer itself, but whatever can be determined from its context, tone, timing, consistency with other posts, word choice, omission of information

Oh ok, I get this. I also feel like this is what most people are looking for in interactions?

496 feels genuine from RTP, but I'm echoing VPB's thoughts in that I'm relatively more cautious in reading players who are decent enough at scum. Still a townlean though.

[Datisi]

TBH, I don't think I can read Datisi very well.

what gives you this impression?

btw you read the game yet?

[midwaybear]

what gives you this impression?

btw you read the game yet?

I think I have trouble reading players with your style in general. This probably goes to Duchess as well. Basically people who ask a lot of questions.
I don't think I have read the whole game, but I'm reading bits and pieces because of the slower pace.

[RLotus]

RTP has this utterly confident attitude like "of course I am town it would be absurd for you to question that". This is most obviously illustrated by their audacity when it comes to ignoring questions they don't feel like answering, laying these little "traps", and withholding information that they don't want to give out. This comes from a self assured town conviction, as if they don't give a shit if they do something scummy, they aren't going to be scumread because they are obviously town.

Also, they are very clearly trying to solve the game with their questioning and lines of reasoning. I'm confident that RTP is town.

[Green Crayons]

utterly confident attitude

I don't hate this interpretation.

[Andresvmb]

edit: ok, after writing this post but before submitting, i went to iso andres to see if he's talked about his elements vote, and he actually did, he saw their vote as the scummiest one on the duchess wagon. so that breaks my theory and makes me feel better on andres. false alarm, carry on with your day, everyone. /edit

Can you explain to me why you don’t think Elements is Scum here? I spent some time slowly re-reading the game, and for the life of me I can’t seem to agree with their worldview at all, and I think them putting me as Town was to appease me.

[RLotus]

edit: ok, after writing this post but before submitting, i went to iso andres to see if he's talked about his elements vote, and he actually did, he saw their vote as the scummiest one on the duchess wagon. so that breaks my theory and makes me feel better on andres. false alarm, carry on with your day, everyone. /edit

Can you explain to me why you don’t think Elements is Scum here? I spent some time slowly re-reading the game, and for the life of me I can’t seem to agree with their worldview at all, and I think them putting me as Town was to appease me.

What about their world view?

[Andresvmb]

edit: ok, after writing this post but before submitting, i went to iso andres to see if he's talked about his elements vote, and he actually did, he saw their vote as the scummiest one on the duchess wagon. so that breaks my theory and makes me feel better on andres. false alarm, carry on with your day, everyone. /edit

Can you explain to me why you don’t think Elements is Scum here? I spent some time slowly re-reading the game, and for the life of me I can’t seem to agree with their worldview at all, and I think them putting me as Town was to appease me.

What about their world view?

I’m almost done catching up while having re-read the game. I’ll post my worldview and you’ll get what I mean.

[Andresvmb]

RTP's preemptive claim of a secret town tell for Harumi doesn't sit right with me (particularly bc he refuses to engage on it).

Do you think this is something a Partner would do as Scum? Because I seriously doubt it.

[Andresvmb]

that is scummy in what way ... ?

I feel like you’re trying too hard to explain yourself. I don’t know, it’s a vibe I’m getting.

[Andresvmb]

Right now, this summarizes how I’m feeling about slots this game.

Slight Lean Town
{Harumi Ayasato, Testarossa, RTP, RLotus, Green Crayons, Dunnstral}
Neutral
{Duchess, VPBaltar, ItalianoVD}
Slight Lean Scum
{Elements, Datisi, Lunar Martian/midwaybear}

I agree that RTP is Town. I’m probably overly cautious there right now, but I like their take on Testa / Harumi and I found myself agreeing. RTP / Koba is naturally suspicious of me so it is what it is.

[Andresvmb]

Out of Green Crayons / Duchess, I think GC is Townier actually. I don’t really know what to make of Italiano. I thought the defeatism and the post I pointed out where coming from Town, but it isn’t an easy read I’ll admit.

[Andresvmb]

I’m really meh on VPB and I can’t say that I care that my stock is falling in their eyes. But I like VPB as a player so that’s also one I’m trying to think through a bit more.

[Dunnstral]

I'm going to assume that Testarossa has no power and move on for now

Andres, that is an unexpected reads list just from looking at others' reads, maybe not bad, why testarossa town? I was thinking scummy or at best null

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, Elements’ worldview makes no sense to me at all. I don’t think Dunn is Scum. I don’t think Harumi is Scum either. I think their pushes are nonsense, and I can’t say I see why they are putting Datisi as null but think they’re quite Towny.

[RLotus]

Nah Italiano bites back when he gets scumread as town, the defeatism is the nail in the coffin imo

[Andresvmb]

Nah Italiano bites back when he gets scumread as town, the defeatism is the nail in the coffin imo

It’s rare that I find Scum giving up D1. I’ve yet to see it on this forum. I don’t find that a “nail in the coffin” at all.

[Andresvmb]

why testarossa town?

I read all of their posts and thought they made sense. I mean it’s early right I don’t have that much confidence that one is right. But I wasn’t particularly pinged. If anything I’m finding pushes there a bit opportunistic, and maybe that’s informing my read too.

[RLotus]

Nah Italiano bites back when he gets scumread as town, the defeatism is the nail in the coffin imo

It’s rare that I find Scum giving up D1. I’ve yet to see it on this forum. I don’t find that a “nail in the coffin” at all.

He said himself that he isn't good at scum and gets caught easily, I think the defeatism makes perfect sense for him as scum here.