Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[petapan]

nope

[Bridgeburners]

dats do you have anything to talk about that isn't 'omg how can anyone still possibly be reading ico as scum still????'
becuase i feel like that's all your posting abt

~ skitteR

[Bridgeburners]

nope

i mean you'd say that as either alignment lol

~ skitteR

[Infinity 324]

Kind of low on energy to commit to this game rn.

If I wind up getting flash-rest-of-the-wagon'd then just, like, my dying will is that you at least reconsider penguin. And also i still have no idea why people are taking N_M out of their PoE. I feel pretty good about this game even if i'm ME'd here with shirou being dead. Except for the other wagon today being on bridge. Still don't think bridge flips scum in this game. at least, like, quite rarely.

Yeah implo is scum.

One of the reasons I wanted to vote implo is I wanted to see if he would have his energy sapped from scum being in a bad spot really early; isis in ss3 reminded me of this. This is exactly that.

[petapan]

not a bad point i suppose

i'll respond to the rest of the stuff skitter posted later i'm still waking up

[petapan]

most of shirou's interactions are so messy that i gave up on trying to read into them, not that i want to discourage you from trying, i just have no idea what to make of most of them

this reads partner-y with shirou and like infinity is on the right track lol

~ skitteR

-iso peta, not super thrilled w/ them since they subbed in

any interest in switching to voting peta?

~ skitteR

kind of weird posts to be making in succession

[petapan]

i mean, i know you addressed these things already; it's not like i have anything new here per se, but you asked me to elaborate so i did.
like you're getting annoyed with me for saying the same things when you asked me to repeat them ...
(and i don't feel like your explanation therein really negates the fact that i view these things as scummy)

we don't really have to continue going around in circles; i'll respond to your response below but if you feel like it isn't really helpful i don't mind if you ignore it
i do feel like these things point to you having a scummy read on aaron tho, and i don't really think your explanations are changing my mind

no i think i'm actually going to keep fighting this because i think your explanations suck

he isn't newbscum, he's been around for a couple of years now. (i'm p sure i was an ic/se in his newbie game!!)
you're kinda failing to explain why it's more likely that the iioa stuff came from newbscum vs someone who didn't have much time and was just posting incidentally
i also think you're overexaggerating the amt of fence-sitting he did

like i think it's easy to paint aaron scum if someone wanted to join the wgon and was looking to do so, and i think that's exactly what you were doing

okay whatever get wrapped up in the technicalities, to a significant extent his posts avoided saying anything useful and i tend to find that scummy, the idea that this is an insufficient case for day 1 is ridiculous

like, in theory, hypothetically, as scum, i

would

press on that anyway but that's only because i, here, as town, mistakenly read it as scummy, the idea that i somehow should not have been reading it that way is stupid because this is how i try to read people and it's not at all dissimilar to how i've tried to read people in other games

i don't think i have? or at least not currently, maybe i did when you first repped in. now i'm accusing you of being scum for having bad reads that i think you're taking because they're expedient, rather than reads you truly believe.

again me having a bad read doesn't make me scum, that's complete bullshit, you have no basis to claim i don't "truly believe" this. first reference you made to me being "underwhelming" was 1801, to a significant extent the basis of your read on me was the shit you tried to accuse me of when you outright misrepresented my read

honestly, cuz you're a good player, and i think town!you takes a more nuanced approach than 'eh bad posting = newbscum'. like, quite simply, your read looks like you made it cuz you thought an aaron wagon could go through, so you had the read. i don't think town-you has that read there (or at least, if you did, you're just satisfied to sit on the wagon through eod for the reasons you're giving for scumreading him)

there's something uniquely galling about getting told a read i formed pre-role pm is fake and inconvenient

like, in theory this is not a reason to read me as town, because it's really totally null, if were scum i'd have the exact same read because the conviction behind it would be "real" since i made it pre replace in

but it just feels insulting to have something that no matter what would be "real" called fake

getting BoP read pisses me off, having it done by someone i have barely played with and have no track record of success playing with both pisses me off and doesn't make any sense

like, you don't know me, step the hell off. i'm playing like i always do

ok, why were the reason for scumreading implo worse than the reasons for scumreading aaron?

i already went into this in 1666 and 1778 where i went over the reasons for voting him. i said i didn't find them convincing then, i don't think they are

remotely

silimar to why i scumread aaron and you attempting to flatting them into being similar is complete nonsense because you're obviously not really reading into or concerned with the details of the reads

my point isn't inherently that you were wrong wrt ico. my point is that you were wrong wrt ico and are coming around to having the exact same read i had while still scumreading me. it would make sense to me if you were to go: 'oh skitter had a similar read to me now on ico, hmmmm she's approaching ico in a way that i know to be townie, ok let me take that into acct when reading her'. it doesn't make sense to me that you're kinda ignoring my ico read when forming a read on me

my read changed on the basis of the flip but i don't really

care

that you were right about that side of the interaction, that has exactly 0 importance to me, you being right about that doesn't make you town and i have no idea why you think it should, my point is your scumread on me is completely bogus and i'm not going to stand for it

[petapan]

actually before let me ask:

does anyone town read Bridges? If so why?

Scum reads on them?

It's the most neglected slot in the game probably, no one is talking much about it other than Isis that raised the case in the first pages.

This is anti-partnery

If I'm going too deep into a WIFOM hole someone tell me, I do think this is useful though

just for the record, i don't think this is anti-partnering. like, to me, the weird thing about shirou's whole treatment of bridgeburners is that, realistically, he knew they were never getting voted out, so it's not like you can look on it as a serious push and rule them out as being teamed

do i think that interaction is lockscum slamdunk distancing off that? no, not really. but please, do not clear them off of that

[Infinity 324]

He knew they weren't getting voted out d1, but it looked to me like he was sowing paranoia on their slot

Not clearing them based off that though

[Bridgeburners]

kind of weird posts to be making in succession

i mean the post abt infinity is strengthening my scumread on you, so, not really

~ skitteR

[Bridgeburners]

no i think i'm actually going to keep fighting this because i think your explanations suck

ok! i'm gonna put it in spoilers tho!

Spoiler:

okay whatever get wrapped up in the technicalities, to a significant extent his posts avoided saying anything useful and i tend to find that scummy, the idea that this is an insufficient case for day 1 is ridiculous

like, in theory, hypothetically, as scum, i would press on that anyway but that's only because i, here, as town, mistakenly read it as scummy, the idea that i somehow should not have been reading it that way is stupid because this is how i try to read people and it's not at all dissimilar to how i've tried to read people in other games

it was surface-level scummy, sure, whatever, i agree with you. it. did. not. make. him. scum. tho.
and you definitely know better than to equate Bad Posting with scumminess, so the fact that you *did* is what i find scummy

iioa != scum
bad posting != scum
fencesitting != scum

and it's ridiculous that you're sitting here arguing with me that those things were why you were scumreading aaron.

if you at least were saying: eh idk i don't townread him but it's bad and i don't have anywhere better to go and we're running otu of time so i'll just vote the game i'm underwhelmed by
than like find i'd understand that and think it's a believeable stance
but this is a really, really silly stance to take

and i see later you're complaining about me bop-ing you
yeah it's annoying af and i hate when people do it to me. i agree. but at the same time, it *is* a valid way to read people, and you're halfway decent at this, so vague excuses for shitty scumreads won't cut it, i'm sorry

and i do think that i ahve enuf experience with you to be able to see you can be bop'd; i'm not sure why you think i wouldn't - i've got 3 towngames with you and i read you correctly in all of them; i know what your towngame looks like, and i know your scumgame is very good

again me having a bad read doesn't make me scum, that's complete bullshit, you have no basis to claim i don't "truly believe" this. first reference you made to me being "underwhelming" was 1801, to a significant extent the basis of your read on me was the shit you tried to accuse me of when you outright misrepresented my read

you having a bad read makes you scum when it's a read that i don't think town-you would ever have, yes

getting BoP read pisses me off, having it done by someone i have barely played with and have no track record of success playing with both pisses me off and doesn't make any sense

like, you don't know me, step the hell off. i'm playing like i always do

like i'm not trying to piss you off; i've already said i'm more than happy to stop the bickering if i am
but i think you're scum and i can't just drop the scumread because you don't like that i'm scumreading you
i apologize for pissing you off tho, that is not my intent

i already went into this in 1666 and 1778 where i went over the reasons for voting him. i said i didn't find them convincing then, i don't think they are remotely silimar to why i scumread aaron and you attempting to flatting them into being similar is complete nonsense because you're obviously not really reading into or concerned with the details of the reads

i don't get the difference.
can you eli5 because maybe i'm just missing something super obvious
(and i think it's kinda silly that you're saying i'm 'not concerned with the details of your reads' in response to a question where i ask you to explain the details of your reads)

[Not_Mafia]

no i think i'm actually going to keep fighting this because i think your explanations suck

ok! i'm gonna put it in spoilers tho!

Spoiler:

okay whatever get wrapped up in the technicalities, to a significant extent his posts avoided saying anything useful and i tend to find that scummy, the idea that this is an insufficient case for day 1 is ridiculous

like, in theory, hypothetically, as scum, i would press on that anyway but that's only because i, here, as town, mistakenly read it as scummy, the idea that i somehow should not have been reading it that way is stupid because this is how i try to read people and it's not at all dissimilar to how i've tried to read people in other games

it was surface-level scummy, sure, whatever, i agree with you. it. did. not. make. him. scum. tho.
and you definitely know better than to equate Bad Posting with scumminess, so the fact that you *did* is what i find scummy

iioa != scum
bad posting != scum
fencesitting != scum

and it's ridiculous that you're sitting here arguing with me that those things were why you were scumreading aaron.

if you at least were saying: eh idk i don't townread him but it's bad and i don't have anywhere better to go and we're running otu of time so i'll just vote the game i'm underwhelmed by
than like find i'd understand that and think it's a believeable stance
but this is a really, really silly stance to take

and i see later you're complaining about me bop-ing you
yeah it's annoying af and i hate when people do it to me. i agree. but at the same time, it *is* a valid way to read people, and you're halfway decent at this, so vague excuses for shitty scumreads won't cut it, i'm sorry

and i do think that i ahve enuf experience with you to be able to see you can be bop'd; i'm not sure why you think i wouldn't - i've got 3 towngames with you and i read you correctly in all of them; i know what your towngame looks like, and i know your scumgame is very good

again me having a bad read doesn't make me scum, that's complete bullshit, you have no basis to claim i don't "truly believe" this. first reference you made to me being "underwhelming" was 1801, to a significant extent the basis of your read on me was the shit you tried to accuse me of when you outright misrepresented my read

you having a bad read makes you scum when it's a read that i don't think town-you would ever have, yes

getting BoP read pisses me off, having it done by someone i have barely played with and have no track record of success playing with both pisses me off and doesn't make any sense

like, you don't know me, step the hell off. i'm playing like i always do

like i'm not trying to piss you off; i've already said i'm more than happy to stop the bickering if i am
but i think you're scum and i can't just drop the scumread because you don't like that i'm scumreading you
i apologize for pissing you off tho, that is not my intent

i already went into this in 1666 and 1778 where i went over the reasons for voting him. i said i didn't find them convincing then, i don't think they are remotely silimar to why i scumread aaron and you attempting to flatting them into being similar is complete nonsense because you're obviously not really reading into or concerned with the details of the reads

i don't get the difference.
can you eli5 because maybe i'm just missing something super obvious
(and i think it's kinda silly that you're saying i'm 'not concerned with the details of your reads' in response to a question where i ask you to explain the details of your reads)

tl;dr

[Bridgeburners]

just noting that peta is trying really, really hard to negate people's partner reads off of shirou's iso

also: daaaaaaaaattttttttttttssssssssssss i see you've been around today. do u have thoughts on things?

~ skitteR

[Bridgeburners]

tl;dr

i think peta is scum and his reasons for scumreading my slot are scummy, as were his reasons for scumreading aaron

~ skitteR

[Datisi]

also: daaaaaaaaattttttttttttssssssssssss i see you've been around today. do u have thoughts on things?

i am literally in the middle of typing (and refreshing to keep up with the ~new stuff~) hello give me a second

[Bridgeburners]

sure
i mostly want to knwo if you have thoughts on people who aren't ico, and why all of your posting seems to be about ico

~ skitteR

[Datisi]

I'm not convinced you believe I'm scum though.

ok, so the reason you weren't voting me / going after me is ... ? like this seems like such a random line to drop, esp after saying i'm town off of associates and not giving any indication to thinking otherwise?

i'm getting a bad feeling about this wagon from implo's 2567. it's like, there's a few things happening right now, skit v peta, me attacking infinity, and scum!implo decides to... be the only one to go after penguin, be the only one to complain about n_m, go out his way to townread burnthebridges. i dunno. gives me a non-survivalistic vibe that i'd not expect from scum here. (unless he's completely given up ig?)

@skitt, how sure are you that infinity's town here? (reference to 2571) did anything in his recent post spark you to post that?

also reading the skit v peta exchange i'm actually getting the vibe that i don't want to kill either of them? like usually when skitter's in a tvs i'd get a feeling that "we really ought nuke both slots and go from there", but here i'm just Not getting that?

also also here i started typing up how ~the gamestate~ is going against my vacuum read on that bc if they were tvt, surely scum would've jumped onto it by now, and they're mostly getting ignored. but *then* i remember that (1) one scum is dead (which keeps slipping my mind due to them being killed and not yeeted) and (2) there might be only one groupscum left anyway which makes this less strong a point

[Datisi]

smh it took me 10 minutes to finish that post, i should be asleep right now

[Bridgeburners]

i'm probably like ~80% sure infinity is town? like enuf that i don't want him wagoned today much at all
but not enuf that i would unilaterally let him hold hammer in 3way if that makes sense

still not sure why all of your posting was about ico since daystart when there are other things going on ...
it almost feels like you're viewing the rest of the game through the lens of your ico read; like you're using that to latch onto the game - which is kinda how i approach the game as scum? i find something to talk abt and then just orient my whole game around that. and that's kinda what you're doing with ico and i'm not really sure *why* that's what you're doing with ico

the line where you say: 'like usually when skitter's in a tvs' do you mean when i'm the scum or the town in the tvs?

~ skitteR

[Datisi]

sure
i mostly want to knwo if you have thoughts on people who aren't ico, and why all of your posting seems to be about ico

~ skitteR

i'll tell you a secret: my motivation for this game's day one died way before day one ended, and i don't think i properly remember anything that's happened in the last ~30 pages of it. after missing a good part of the game like that, that's usually where i give up on a game and lowkey prodge until i get yeeted. (this doesn't happen often - i believe last time something like this happened was krazy's post-apoc upick a year ago.)

i also hate myself when i do that, and have decided to not let myself completely fall into apathy and at least do ~something~ - like i think ico is town and i believe the shade on him was fishy? aight let's run with that, try to solve from there. just so happens that ico is one of my strongest (if not *the* strongest) reads right now, and i think working from there is more likely to actually make me useful and get results.

[Bridgeburners]

hmmmmmmm ok fair enuf

is there anything i can do to help you get back into it?

~ skitteR

[Datisi]

it almost feels like you're viewing the rest of the game through the lens of your ico read; like you're using that to latch onto the game - which is kinda how i approach the game as scum? i find something to talk abt and then just orient my whole game around that. and that's kinda what you're doing with ico and i'm not really sure *why* that's what you're doing with ico

the line where you say: 'like usually when skitter's in a tvs' do you mean when i'm the scum or the town in the tvs?

i mean, you're not wrong, that is exactly what i'm doing. just so happens i'm not scum and i'm not you? like, i think the options for my own position in this game are "start from something that i actually have a firm read on and work from there" or "try to force reads on things i Don't have reads on, get frustrated once the forcing reads obviously doesn't work, give up", and i think the former is obv better

i mean both, actually. off the top of my head, i can remember 3 tvs fights you got into (scum!s_s in jk9++, scum!duck in 960, town!nero cain in that mini normal) where i thought "ok, this is svt, i'm not exactly sure who is who though, we should just murder both of them" and i'm just not getting that here if that makes sense?

[Datisi]

is there anything i can do to help you get back into it?

remind me again, who do you think is scum other than peta? i vaguely remember you calling implo town bc something d1 gamestate town wagons (apologies if i'm butchering, you know what i'm referring to i think), mind giving an update on that?

[Datisi]

also ik mena is busy irl at these days, but he's the head of the hydra i actually have read correctly before, mind asking him for a rundown on my slot once he has time? or preferably getting him here

[Infinity 324]

ok, so the reason you weren't voting me / going after me is ... ? like this seems like such a random line to drop, esp after saying i'm town off of associates and not giving any indication to thinking otherwise?

It's because your SR of me is so removed from your posting that I forgot it even existed. You voted me for my SR on sechyd, but I'm not pushing them anymore, and you didn't even comment on that. Was my unvote a scummy backtrack? Didn't change your read, but the fact that I SRed them in the first place is scummy enough that you're continuing to vote me? It's very strange, especially since no one else agrees with you, and you're not engaging with them or giving them reasons to change their mind. So what is this vote doing?

I don't remember saying anything about you in the shirou ISO