Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[VP Baltar]

I may actually do a reads list later today. I think if I do, the actual pool of scum potentials might be pretty small

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hi datisi i know u were in site chat lets talk...

[Datisi]

such fucking dirty tactics smfh

i was about to go take a walk but i left you an inquiry in 905

[Battle Mage]

i love that the perk of having some real stinkers as scum, is that it's very easy to obvtown.

yeah RTP I'm elimming you cause you feigned a read on me, and when i asked you some probing questions, you fell away. Note the contrast between you and Elements - Elements answered my questions and defended himself, whereas you just conceded.

[Battle Mage]

Why is he so willing to jump on like whoever's name gets thrown around as scum? That's not a towny mindset. He isn't coming from a solving perspective. He was willing to elim Duchess, Italiano, Andre, Elements, Dunn, me, and you thus far, based on the mood of the thread and if they can get traction.

I often do this as town simply because my vote is all I get. If I don't throw it around wildly what's the point? I don't think this is inherently scummy.

Being willing to wagon whoever whenever is blatantly scummy. Like his opinions aren't coming from his own convictions.

nah, moving the vote is more townie for me. scum scared to move their vote to ruffle feathers. depends on circumstances though

[Battle Mage]

i know we have a week, but it's page 38, let's get flippy

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM u moved ur vote once i switched up my read of the game - that literally reeks of an agenda.

I'm not interested in considering you town rn when you're just trying to shitpush me when thats the easiest thing to fake that looks towny as scum.

Where did I feign a read on you? Quote it. I do feign reads too btw -> strategically. but this is not a place where i have done so.

I didn't even concede I just straight ignored your bad push cuz it doesnt mean anything to me - especially considering you're now feeling SO confident that you think I need to be flipped rather than trying to poke around and see if you're right. the proportion of what you have listed as reasons for me being scum vs the confidence of your read is way off - and that is why I think you are not town and are also partners with elements based on your interactions around there.

Datisi i will answer you in my next post.

[Battle Mage]

BM u moved ur vote once i switched up my read of the game - that literally reeks of an agenda.

I'm not interested in considering you town rn when you're just trying to shitpush me when thats the easiest thing to fake that looks towny as scum.

Where did I feign a read on you? Quote it. I do feign reads too btw -> strategically. but this is not a place where i have done so.

I didn't even concede I just straight ignored your bad push cuz it doesnt mean anything to me - especially considering you're now feeling SO confident that you think I need to be flipped rather than trying to poke around and see if you're right. the proportion of what you have listed as reasons for me being scum vs the confidence of your read is way off - and that is why I think you are not town and are also partners with elements based on your interactions around there.

Datisi i will answer you in my next post.

it doesn't matter one bit if you consider me town or not - it's inconceivable that I'm getting elimmed today. So suggest you focus on saving yourself, by responding to my questions posted previously. Every time you post and avoid the points raised, is a mark against you. I don't have any sympathy for the "woe is me, you're not giving me a chance" when you refuse to engage with me, and instead default to a lazy "nah i won't respond to BM cuz he is scum".

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ok @rtp i feel like we need to Properly Talk. i'll go through your reads in 696 properly a bit later but i feel like a lot of things are just... noted vaguely positive things that don't exactly mean much? like e.g. italiano making statements that can be backed up, how/why is that townpoints? what statements do you mean here? why is willingness to reeval townie? and also like, i just plainly disagree that the list of why they were annoyed was any good so idk. like you feel what i mean?

and another thing i wanna note what is your read on me/vpb? i mean this in the context of us voting for you, bc earlier you said that this is your town meta (which ftr i don't think is worth that much because meta can easily be changed but i digress) and then you say that our votes on you seem fine/misguided to you bc meta etc, so mind elaborating on that?

It's a sort of energy thing - the way they are playing does not come off as informed to me. Idk if you have noted by now but I tend to have pretty strong and accurate reads on LHF slots, like italiano, wrt reading how their bumbling around is. I think they are genuine and also combined with how their energy felt when we rolled scum together - I think that is towny. If I have to eat crow so be it - i do think an investigative is worth using on that slot. That combined with the fact I have a team read atm that I feel looks like... it fits? so far makes me confident rn

i already outted my read on vpb - but u are leaning town based on my poe + ur later play. i may have to reread a scum game of urs to brush myself back up since i've only played with town you so far. I do agree I'm one who can manipulate meta. I had alisae tell me a while back I should play town by trying to work with other town, which is what im trying to apply here now. But like I know I did note a pattern of just shitpushing people when I'm scum -> while you can make the argument I'm faking it here it's 100% like leaning town for me here. I have a history of being more "aggressive" as town - which is usually how ppl have tried to sort me - obviously now that I'm actively trying to remove that from my gameplay it is a stark difference that ppl who have played with me are going to see and be like "ok koba is off i think maybe scum for it".

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM u moved ur vote once i switched up my read of the game - that literally reeks of an agenda.

I'm not interested in considering you town rn when you're just trying to shitpush me when thats the easiest thing to fake that looks towny as scum.

Where did I feign a read on you? Quote it. I do feign reads too btw -> strategically. but this is not a place where i have done so.

I didn't even concede I just straight ignored your bad push cuz it doesnt mean anything to me - especially considering you're now feeling SO confident that you think I need to be flipped rather than trying to poke around and see if you're right. the proportion of what you have listed as reasons for me being scum vs the confidence of your read is way off - and that is why I think you are not town and are also partners with elements based on your interactions around there.

Datisi i will answer you in my next post.

it doesn't matter one bit if you consider me town or not - it's inconceivable that I'm getting elimmed today. So suggest you focus on saving yourself, by responding to my questions posted previously. Every time you post and avoid the points raised, is a mark against you. I don't have any sympathy for the "woe is me, you're not giving me a chance" when you refuse to engage with me, and instead default to a lazy "nah i won't respond to BM cuz he is scum".

I don't honestly care because you're not getting the vote necessary to elim me here.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Your lockscum read on amounts to NAI things and fudged reasoning - that never comes from town and I can already tell you're gonna be claiming PR so im going for your partner.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Explain why u think midway is scummy.
The more you talk the less i think youre conversing in good faith

Im off break see yall later

When I ISO'd Lunar earlier I recall thinking their positioning was a bit haphazard, and there was one post by midwaybear which read really badly to me.

A couple Q's:

What do you see as Lunar Martian's town meta vs scum meta?
What about my posts is not "good faith"? Disagreeing with my read doesn't imply my read is bad faith - and you have seen I have many reads and they do evolve over time.

I also still want you to answer this:

Oh and BM was also weird around it. I forgot about them lol

please tell me more about this - specifically what was i weird around, and how?

until you do satisfactorily, I'll VOTE: Reformed Toxic Player to give you an extra incentive

like what are these questions? whats the purpose of the lunar martian thing? u wanna tell me?

with votato, i've played many games and i have a good grasp of what their town meta looks like - plus they were playing so obviously non agenda.

if you have a scumread on them and disagree then say it. are you scumreading midway? is that what you're getting from this? or is your goal just to discredit any townblocks from forming - because that is exactly what it feels like you are doing. you said positioning was "haphazard". like so vague and not describing what is scummy about it. or what the haphazard position is. and which post by midway reads bad to you?

your posts are in bad faith because you are not trying to sort my slot and are just tossing shade at people. this is not a town mindset. you can throw shade yes, but you need to follow that up. when you replace in and have an overtly confident read it comes off as extremely bad faith.

as for the other thing I do need to go look at it. - will be my next post.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

not me going back and solidifying that i think elements x BM were scum theatering pretty overtly on pages 29/30

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Ah yes now i remember - it was the fact it was completely ignored by BM when i posted my stuff -> i found it weird they latched onto elements instead and said nothing about a big post like mine. I know, sounds conceited but it came off as weird that they were NOT interacting with it.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

so I will share now - that the possibility feels less likley with my current reads now that i have found evidence it ISN'T what i was afraid of - but the initial thing i had was that I was suspecting a masonry in the game and I was feeling like I was scumreading people who looked informed but like it was too many ppl and that was like why I needed to help cut that number down and then i realized i was reading the game wrong when rereading and thats how i ended up thinking i tr too many ppl before bc i was so off there LOL

keep in mind i had early townreads on elements / GC slot and that was probably contributing to my less comfortable view of the game state.

[Datisi]

ok @rtp i feel like we need to Properly Talk. i'll go through your reads in 696 properly a bit later but i feel like a lot of things are just... noted vaguely positive things that don't exactly mean much? like e.g. italiano making statements that can be backed up, how/why is that townpoints? what statements do you mean here? why is willingness to reeval townie? and also like, i just plainly disagree that the list of why they were annoyed was any good so idk. like you feel what i mean?

and another thing i wanna note what is your read on me/vpb? i mean this in the context of us voting for you, bc earlier you said that this is your town meta (which ftr i don't think is worth that much because meta can easily be changed but i digress) and then you say that our votes on you seem fine/misguided to you bc meta etc, so mind elaborating on that?

It's a sort of energy thing - the way they are playing does not come off as informed to me. Idk if you have noted by now but I tend to have pretty strong and accurate reads on LHF slots, like italiano, wrt reading how their bumbling around is. I think they are genuine and also combined with how their energy felt when we rolled scum together - I think that is towny. If I have to eat crow so be it - i do think an investigative is worth using on that slot. That combined with the fact I have a team read atm that I feel looks like... it fits? so far makes me confident rn

i already outted my read on vpb - but u are leaning town based on my poe + ur later play. i may have to reread a scum game of urs to brush myself back up since i've only played with town you so far. I do agree I'm one who can manipulate meta. I had alisae tell me a while back I should play town by trying to work with other town, which is what im trying to apply here now. But like I know I did note a pattern of just shitpushing people when I'm scum -> while you can make the argument I'm faking it here it's 100% like leaning town for me here. I have a history of being more "aggressive" as town - which is usually how ppl have tried to sort me - obviously now that I'm actively trying to remove that from my gameplay it is a stark difference that ppl who have played with me are going to see and be like "ok koba is off i think maybe scum for it".

i've not noted that, actually. am i forgetting something? also i get that it's a gutread but can you elaborate on it further than "energy"? like you listed some concrete things about him back in 696 (that i repeated here), and like i'm not seeing how they translate to a townread here if that makes sense?

ok so what about my later play is improving me in your eyes (and you still kinda haven't elaborated on what made me scum in the first place)? also you played with scum!me in brass & shrapnel. :c

[DkKoba]

oh i was too distracted by PP berating me for trying to understand setup mechs lol so i forgot about that game.

it looks more like u are shifting naturally from a like "hmm idk" kinda stage to a "hm ok this is true" like idk how to explain it.

ur early play felt agenda-y.

i just don't think gamestate favors italiano scum here in general. like i really don't. i have stronger reads elsewhere. I don't scumread ppl making mistakes inherently unless its like an actual scummy one - those usually come AFTER d1 once u have flips and they mess up for example their worldview etc.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

oh i was too distracted by PP berating me for trying to understand setup mechs lol so i forgot about that game.

it looks more like u are shifting naturally from a like "hmm idk" kinda stage to a "hm ok this is true" like idk how to explain it.

ur early play felt agenda-y.

i just don't think gamestate favors italiano scum here in general. like i really don't. i have stronger reads elsewhere. I don't scumread ppl making mistakes inherently unless its like an actual scummy one - those usually come AFTER d1 once u have flips and they mess up for example their worldview etc.

koba stop alt slipping challenge 2021

[Datisi]

it looks more like u are shifting naturally from a like "hmm idk" kinda stage to a "hm ok this is true" like idk how to explain it.

i'm sorry i have approximately zero clue what this means, maybe i'm tired

where/how did my early play feel agenda-y?

also like that's not an answer to my question - but now that you bring it up, *what* about the gamestate makes you think that? and who said anything about scumreading him bc of making mistakes?

i'm getting annoying to myself with this continuous questioning, but like i feel like i need to see an example from you on why your reads are the way they are? bc right now it feels just like you're adding different reasonings to things but i don't see the cogs actually turning behind the scenes

[Reformed Toxic Player]

it looks more like u are shifting naturally from a like "hmm idk" kinda stage to a "hm ok this is true" like idk how to explain it.

i'm sorry i have approximately zero clue what this means, maybe i'm tired

where/how did my early play feel agenda-y?

also like that's not an answer to my question - but now that you bring it up, *what* about the gamestate makes you think that? and who said anything about scumreading him bc of making mistakes?

i'm getting annoying to myself with this continuous questioning, but like i feel like i need to see an example from you on why your reads are the way they are? bc right now it feels just like you're adding different reasonings to things but i don't see the cogs actually turning behind the scenes

i think this is like complicating it too much im not that big brained and i dont have anything more like specific than that unless u wanna go over specific stuff and ask me where i think it leans - i feel as though I've outlined stuff pretty well. I sorta like to just go "hey i think this comes off as X, and i think you should also be able to reach that conclusion after reading this"

[RLotus]

Why is he so willing to jump on like whoever's name gets thrown around as scum? That's not a towny mindset. He isn't coming from a solving perspective. He was willing to elim Duchess, Italiano, Andre, Elements, Dunn, me, and you thus far, based on the mood of the thread and if they can get traction.

Please show me where I have voted for any of those people except for Dunn.

As far as asking people to hear their cases or saying "yeah, I think that person has been scummy too"....what do you expect? 1) I want to see other people making cases. I'm not the only one playing the game here. 2) my Dunn wagon hasn't exactly launched into orbit. I'm probably not going to get that today given people are free passing him for lurking. I have to find another wagon that I find reasonably scummy to support.

I know you've had one scum read this game, but I actually don't know who the scum are and several people have said scummy things this game. I wish I had your confidence.

You are taking advantage of the scumreads other people have rather than solving the game on your own. The easiest example to see is your absolute lack of progression of RTP. You kinda just were not talking about them then suddenly you scumread them after BM puts a vote there. Also, you looked willing to do the same with elements and myself. That's what is scummy.

[Datisi]

here's the thing. i'm also a Certified Gut Player(tm), when i'm town. when i'm scum, i don't have gut (bc obviously informed of everyone), so i have to fake it. here and there it happens that someone asks me for an elaboration of a read that i said i have and that i don't know how to elaborate on. the thing i usually do then is vomit out a meaningless wordsalad of words such as gut, vibe, feeling, gamestate, soulread, etc, and pray that they think it's a Datisi Gutread and leave me the fuck alone.

the issue is that that's exactly what i'm feeling behind your posts here. like you're going "hey i think this comes off as X, and i think you should also be able to reach the conclusion after reading this" but i am not reaching it. i still think italiano is scum. like, i am literally asking you specific stuff -

what about the gamestate points at town!italiano? what statements that are able to be backed up make italiano townie? why is italiano being willing to reeval townie there? what did you like about his annoyed list? where did you feel i was agenda-y in early posts?

and i feel like i'm not getting much in response other than sidestepping

pedit: this ^^ is @rtp obviously

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm not you.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

And don’t question my feelings and guts because that’s all everyone has been doing. No one has a strong case so don’t @ me. You know who you are.

its just their overall posting - stuff esp like this is stuff that pings me towards town -> thus why my early read there. i had voted them later on bc of the inconsistency between what they told me in scumchat in open 799 abt their scum confidence.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

can I get a reads list from u datisi?