Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[maxwell]

Reading casually through page 10 and this is not going to be an easy one.

[VP Baltar]

As far as my takeaway on you, it felt like your town self to really push someone for specifics without being rude about it. That was my general takeaway

do you think scum!me is rude?

also, i was asking about the last parenthesis in your 1066. i thought that was talking about my reaction to 298?

Ohhhhh, got you.

You shrugged it off, which I took as pretty NAI. It was a lark just to see if anything interesting happened.

Iirc, you also engaged me directly around then when I poked again and said I was surprised you weren't scum reading me. You said you were town reading me, which felt like you were maybe either pocketing me or you are starting to get me and can tell when I'm being my transparent townself. I didn't make up my mind at that point, but overtime your play has seemed more like your town play in other games, so it is likely the latter.

[Datisi]

oops i got distracted by Things

also @green am i null to you?

i've been staring at this rtp v green for far too long. i'll reread it once i have more than 3 functioning brain cells bc right now this just feels like a bunch of annoyance and talking past each other.

@rtp can you explain to me what you meant by widening poe? bc i legit don't think i get it

yeah i'm feeling dead ok bye

[Battle Mage]

i understood what rtp meant by widening poe

[Reformed Toxic Player]

oops i got distracted by Things

also @green am i null to you?

i've been staring at this rtp v green for far too long. i'll reread it once i have more than 3 functioning brain cells bc right now this just feels like a bunch of annoyance and talking past each other.

@rtp can you explain to me what you meant by widening poe? bc i legit don't think i get it

yeah i'm feeling dead ok bye

Theres just that energy of just hedginess and not pushing to solve slots, just in keeping options open

[Reformed Toxic Player]

lol town datisi can get v rude... i have seen it and had to defuse jt

[RLotus]

Vote VPB whenever you feel like voting for scum

[midwaybear]

We should end this day soon.
What are the viable wagons right now?

[RLotus]

So the most damning thing in Duchess' accusation of VPB, the fence sitting that VPB has been doing in the GC/Duchess/Italiano debacle, VPB decides not to respond to (because it's true), but instead decides to combat the semantic/inconsequential arguments.

[RLotus]

Elements vote there looks pretty terrible. Although it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to do it to his partner, so if VPB does flip red, some slight town points to Elements. Same for VPB if Elements flips red.

The two main wagons are starting to look pretty bad to me

[DkKoba]

UNVOTE:
Mmmmm

[Reformed Toxic Player]

UNVOTE:
Mmmmm

UNVOTE:

[RLotus]

In post 990, RLotus wrote:
I'd really like to hear from Harumi

this feels... kinda random? like harumi hasn't picked up their prod i'm p sure. anything prompt this?

Because there were like 6 or main people talking and we're not going to be able to find all the scum like that, and Harumi kinda just went quiet.

In post 1023, RLotus wrote:
Datisi does have precedence to be voting there looking at his interactions with RTP. I do still find it strange how he followed VPB to RTP and doing the same thing before following VPB onto Dunn.

"strange" is a meaningless word here. do you conclude anything from it?

It is abnormal/out of the ordinary. I'm unsure about your alignment thus far, so no conclusions no

[RLotus]

I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.

[VP Baltar]

I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.

Because it is stupid and bad faith. It hasn't met resistance so much as you're making terrible points that you're trying to take out of context. Anyone can go read the stuff you're pointing to and see how much of a misrepresentation it is.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.

you know the only reason my slot was eliminated last game was because of a mason who was mad i FOSed 2 masons and accidentally townread a mafia but still came around at the end right? im not an easy elimination or safe.

[RLotus]

I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.

Because it is stupid and bad faith. It hasn't met resistance so much as you're making terrible points that you're trying to take out of context. Anyone can go read the stuff you're pointing to and see how much of a misrepresentation it is.

Multiple people calling you town is indeed resistance. It's like you're not even trying to evaluate the people pushing on you, but instead calling them scum with blanket terms like bad faith.

I'm not surprised as you haven't been trying to solve anyone this game. It's funny that you call my logic stupid
when it is indeed true that you haven't been trying to solve and mainly riding the fence.

It is also rich that you call my logic stupid when your two top scumreads are 1. OMGUSing me, with terrible reasoning(bad faith blahblahblah) 2. Dunn for lurking, even though you've been repeatedly told that he lurks as both alignments. But, you keep Dunn as one of your top scum you can't get it through your head it seems.

[RLotus]

I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.

you know the only reason my slot was eliminated last game was because of a mason who was mad i FOSed 2 masons and accidentally townread a mafia but still came around at the end right? im not an easy elimination or safe.

Well you are getting called scum this game so why doesn't Elements go on your wagon instead of VPB who was only getting pushed by me. And why doesn't Duchess go on Elements for the same reason

[Green Crayons]

What I'm noticing with VPB is that he seems to be sitting by and looking for mis elims where he can get them, whilst being non committal to his reads (except Dunn), as if to avoid looking bad when they flip town.

There are certainly a couple of posts that are gauging interest on different players (not all of them, i'm not sure why you grouped some of these posts with others), but isn't your theory scum AI only if all of those players are actually town? So I'm not sure how you get that point at this stage.

Also,

After rereading IVD, maybe I was being unfair at a couple points. I can't say I town read him exactly, but I'll give him breathing room and keep evaluating there

UNVOTE:

Yeah I’m feeling VPB today

VOTE: VPB

What changed here?

[RLotus]

Unless it's Duchess + Elements

[Green Crayons]

oh lol i misread the IVD as VPB in 875

[VP Baltar]

Jesus, I can't believe I'm going to respond to this wall, but I feel like it is my duty to point out how bad this RLotus case is. (full case is in Post 869 for reference)

First thing he points to:

Taking advantage of Duchess v GC

How am I taking advantage of it, you might ask?

I called out what i saw as an overly high amount of aggression, particularly from Duchess.

Bring the smoke then, a vote puts about as much pressure on me as the bottom of a puddle.

Are you usually this combative as town? Or is this game pissing you off?

You call that combative?

As a reformed toxic player, I'm sure you wouldn't understand casual combativeness.

Yeah, I think Duchess had a bit of a bad faith response to GC

Why is that taking advantage you ask? I don't know. I made a comment on what I saw taking place. Duchess has been an absolute shit to me as well recently, so clearly I wasn't just making this up out of thin air, but rather pointing out a pattern of behavior. In said shitfest from Duchess, there is a post where I point out that faked aggression can come from scum who mistake bravado for scum hunting.

Next, RLotus points to this post as suspicious.

@andres - what are your thoughts on IVD?

He says I'm "gauging interest" on IVD here. Cool story, except I was clearly asking andres for a reason: Understanding his thoughts and positions on the key topic of the game at that point: Duchess v. GC

The follow up posts ARE LITERALLY RIGHT THERE IF YOU DON'T CHERRY PICK:

@andres - what are your thoughts on IVD?

Hey VPB. I’ll ISO there and let you know. I’ll say though that as I was reading I got a decently okay vibe from them. Like I put them as a Town Lean and moved on.

I'm mostly thinking how IVD is interacting with the GC/Duchess fight.

Maybe if you see IVD as town, that sways your thoughts on who is scum there?

I did also think though that Duchess in 201 had a point, in that Italiano and Green Crayons could be aligned, with Duchess having hit a nerve of some sort. However, I didn’t think that Duchess’ confidence was entirely warranted.

So if you’re asking me what I think on a stand-alone basis, I thought Italiano was okay. Taking a side on the more meaningful spat D1 isn’t necessarily bad. If there’s anything that I would scrutinize later in the game is that little nugget I believe you highlighted about having some faith in Elements’ gut reads. Just something to watch out for.

Andres wins my first solid town read of the game.

I hope you are shamed, Datisi.

I asked a question, gained information from it that informed my reads. RLotus willfully selected posts without reading context.


Then Lotus says I'm "taking advantage of Lotus/Datisi's push on IVD" because I asked a rhetorical question, highlighting Italiano being scummy in his replies.

Let me take a chill pill for a minute. I read your 306 Duchess. I’ll respond it to it later. Same with you @Datisi wrt 272

UNVOTE: Duchess

What if Italiano really is just scum here?

Like, duh. do you understand anything about using rhetoric? I'm directly jabbing at Italiano there. Am I not allowed to find a response by Italiano to be scummy because I'm not working the wagon as my primary source? This is nonsense.

He even says me pressuring Italiano is scummy in this post!

Italiano, can you respond specifically to this contradiction Lotus has highlighted around your own views of your scum ability?

It's fair to say I'm not pursuing Italiano as my main at that point, but I'm assisting in pressure to a what I saw as a good point. If Lotus really believes Italiano is scum (as he tunneled all game), this point is nonsensical. Particularly when I don't see him scouring pages for every time someone applies pressure to a wagon they are not actively on. Again, this is cherry picking. It also selectively ignores posts like 417 and 430 and 436 and etc where I'm actively pushing on Italiano on my own.

This isn't hard to fact check. I went to my ISO and ctrl+f'ed "Italiano". I actually talk about him a decent amount.

[VP Baltar]

like, do I need to go on. I'm just addressing these in order you've posted them and there isn't a legit point in the bunch yet.

[RLotus]

In post 869, RLotus wrote:
What I'm noticing with VPB is that he seems to be sitting by and looking for mis elims where he can get them, whilst being non committal to his reads (except Dunn), as if to avoid looking bad when they flip town.

There are certainly a couple of posts that are gauging interest on different players (not all of them, i'm not sure why you grouped some of these posts with others), but isn't your theory scum AI only if all of those players are actually town? So I'm not sure how you get that point at this stage.

Umm I suppose he could throw one of his partners in there as well. The behavior looks bad + his lack of solving effort. I'm not necessarily trying to put the whole puzzle together at this point, as it were.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.

you know the only reason my slot was eliminated last game was because of a mason who was mad i FOSed 2 masons and accidentally townread a mafia but still came around at the end right? im not an easy elimination or safe.

Well you are getting called scum this game so why doesn't Elements go on your wagon instead of VPB who was only getting pushed by me. And why doesn't Duchess go on Elements for the same reason

I get called scum every game no matter my alignment. its nothing new. I know the cases against me this game are easily debunked so im barely worried and its obvious to me when people are bad faith pushing me.