Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Datisi]

lol sorry! yes if my galaxy brain idea is right it will be today. i'll let you know, don't worry.

[Andresvmb]

there is something rubbing me the wrong way about this, considering you were quick to yell at me yesterday when i was voting maxwell because "that wagon wasn't happening, we need to consolidate because it's majority, you're being anti-town by being on a 1-2 vote wagon". also like, at that point the game was pretty dead, with the day going for like 14 days.

I mean haha sure. I was yelling at you to consolidate somewhere that was plausible, really. You would be hard pressed to find anybody here who would argue that maxwell was remotely likely to be executed yesterday. So what’s your point? If you didn’t agree, you would have kept your vote there.

I just think there’s some nuance here that appears to be getting lost. I wasn’t like running around saying we need ensure a majority by voting and executing Italiano. You must at least agree with that. So clearly I was looking for options outside of that, and the only way to make that happen was by seeing others consolidate. With a completely scattered vote, then you make it impossible to find alternatives to the current trajectory. In a way, that’s what’s happening here too. You again have multiple votes in myriad places, and some concentration on Dunn.

All I’m seeing is a bunch of excuses as to why we executed Town at the end of the day. The only reason a wagon even built there to begin with was because of faulty arguments - arguments that you must at least recognize RTP for example fought against, even if they ended up voting for Italiano and not believing how they constructed their end of day reads list. And the wagon against Italiano seemed to fade at one point, only to resurface. There’s definitely Scum there, and that’s why I am not entirely comfortable with the same set of folks dictating what happens today.

[Andresvmb]

So andres, comparing the Italiano wagon to the Dunn wagon, it looks like the only overlap is Datisi, Lotus and myself, right?

So you think there is definitely scum in that group who is leading a speed yeet D2?

Yes. I would be floored if you were all Town.

[Andresvmb]

cookie's readslist feels awfully forced. i feel like the reads description was copy/pasted 10 times over because (other than the elements one) i feel like none of them are actually saying anything.

Can you be more specific? What read doesn’t make sense to you? Like what is forced or insincere about it?

[Andresvmb]

So andres, comparing the Italiano wagon to the Dunn wagon, it looks like the only overlap is Datisi, Lotus and myself, right?

So you think there is definitely scum in that group who is leading a speed yeet D2?

Yes. I would be floored if you were all Town.

Alternatively you could argue that you’re all bad Mafia players. That could also be the case since I believe all of you voted for RTP at different times. Up to you what you want me to argue.

[Andresvmb]

^actually I checked - RLotus didn’t vote for RTP or at least I couldn’t find a vote. And from what I can tell, they had RTP as Town. So if Dunn flips Town, I’m going to agree with one of RTP’s early POEs that one of {Datisi, VPB} has one Scum.

[Andresvmb]

So if Dunn is flipped and they flip Town, I’m going to really struggle picturing a world where you’re both Town. I don’t think that’s particularly likely in such a situation.

[Andresvmb]

Regardless, that’s quite speculative right now. I am trying to be more realistic. Scum tend not to be so loud. You guys are being loud. I think there’s Scum hiding behind you. And I would be amazed if the Italiano wagon was pure.

[VP Baltar]

Regardless, that’s quite speculative right now. I am trying to be more realistic. Scum tend not to be so loud. You guys are being loud. I think there’s Scum hiding behind you. And I would be amazed if the Italiano wagon was pure.

I don't doubt there was at least one scum on that wagon. Lotus isnt exactly in my town ride or die either.

That being said, I don't think Datisi is scum. I know I'm not scum.

The italiano wagon needs analysis, which I hope to do later this weekend when I have time to put serious thought into this game. I think that analysis includes both the people on it and people weirdly off it. Because, real talk, you can say Datisi or I are Bad At Mafia, but Italiano self-hammered as a cop, so....

The reason I'm slightly annoyed with you is that your thinking is coming across as very one dimensional. I know aggression is your playstyle, but this discussion so far doesn't feel very thought out or enlightening to me. Idk

[RLotus]

Spoiler: Cookie's Thoughts/Reads Cause why not

Thoughts on Italiano wagon

ok uhhh
VOTE: italiano

my levels of care are becoming lower and since i'm town on duchess anyway, i don't particularly care to wait to see who replaces them

This vote doesnt give me a good feeling...

Sure we can try there
VOTE: Italiano

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Italiano

These two votes seem too followy for my liking

VOTE: ItalianoVD
I'm subscribing to this wagon

Again dont like how you have just jumped on the wagon

VOTE: italiano

Let's go.

It’s been real my peeps. Appreciate all you do.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

You know what I dont like this wagon at all but I do think it was really strange the way Italiano reacted and that self hammer just... ew but anyway whats done is done and while I dont like the votes on the wagon it happened and the game is moving forward so onto the next thing...

Cookie's Reads List

TOWN

Andresvmb - Just seems to be genuine in all posts and really gives me the town vibes - can't really explain the feeling tbh
RLotus - I like the way they ask theor questions as it seems like they are really trying to solve the game
Momrangal - Players beforehand yes were a little scummy but I think I like this slot for a low town lean atm

NULL

Dunnstral - Seems to be a very experienced player so am going to really have a good look into ISO later because I feel this is a slot that could be scum but appear really towny
Green Crayons - Really don't know how I feel about this slot just seems really strange in the way they appear to me and its really hard to explain
Midwaybear - They seem like they are trying to solve but the vote on the Italiano wagon really doesnt sit well with me and I think its the worst
Maxwell - Don't know how I feel about them yet fully but some of their posts I think I see coming from a town perspective more than scum but alas I could be wrong and that has me really paranoid

SCUM

Elements - Can't help but feel this slot has scum slipped.... 734 and then this I think is the slip 901 and their votes going everywhere seems to me more like a scummy thing to do as it seems like they are trying to find a wagon that everyone can support to get them eliminated. The only thing I can give them on the up-side was that they wern't on the stupid Italiano wagon
Datisi - I dont really know if I like their posts.. Something seems either forced or just not right to me
VP Baltar - Don't like their posts at all. I dont like how they dont really seem to be solving just asking questions and throwing votes around to make it seem like they are doing something and looking busy enough to stay out of the spotlight...

After all that...
VOTE: VP Baltar

How much of the game have you read through?

[Momrangal]

Gone all weekend, may come back Sunday to finish catch up

[Cookie Monster]

Cookie, how many games of mafia have you completed?

2 this is number 3

[Cookie Monster]

Spoiler: Cookie's Thoughts/Reads Cause why not

Thoughts on Italiano wagon

ok uhhh
VOTE: italiano

my levels of care are becoming lower and since i'm town on duchess anyway, i don't particularly care to wait to see who replaces them

This vote doesnt give me a good feeling...

Sure we can try there
VOTE: Italiano

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Italiano

These two votes seem too followy for my liking

VOTE: ItalianoVD
I'm subscribing to this wagon

Again dont like how you have just jumped on the wagon

VOTE: italiano

Let's go.

It’s been real my peeps. Appreciate all you do.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

You know what I dont like this wagon at all but I do think it was really strange the way Italiano reacted and that self hammer just... ew but anyway whats done is done and while I dont like the votes on the wagon it happened and the game is moving forward so onto the next thing...

Cookie's Reads List

TOWN

Andresvmb - Just seems to be genuine in all posts and really gives me the town vibes - can't really explain the feeling tbh
RLotus - I like the way they ask theor questions as it seems like they are really trying to solve the game
Momrangal - Players beforehand yes were a little scummy but I think I like this slot for a low town lean atm

NULL

Dunnstral - Seems to be a very experienced player so am going to really have a good look into ISO later because I feel this is a slot that could be scum but appear really towny
Green Crayons - Really don't know how I feel about this slot just seems really strange in the way they appear to me and its really hard to explain
Midwaybear - They seem like they are trying to solve but the vote on the Italiano wagon really doesnt sit well with me and I think its the worst
Maxwell - Don't know how I feel about them yet fully but some of their posts I think I see coming from a town perspective more than scum but alas I could be wrong and that has me really paranoid

SCUM

Elements - Can't help but feel this slot has scum slipped.... 734 and then this I think is the slip 901 and their votes going everywhere seems to me more like a scummy thing to do as it seems like they are trying to find a wagon that everyone can support to get them eliminated. The only thing I can give them on the up-side was that they wern't on the stupid Italiano wagon
Datisi - I dont really know if I like their posts.. Something seems either forced or just not right to me
VP Baltar - Don't like their posts at all. I dont like how they dont really seem to be solving just asking questions and throwing votes around to make it seem like they are doing something and looking busy enough to stay out of the spotlight...

After all that...
VOTE: VP Baltar

How much of the game have you read through?

I skimmed through day 1 but focused on the end day wagon and I’ve been reading through day 2 as it goes

[VP Baltar]

Cookie, how many games of mafia have you completed?

2 this is number 3

Cool.

I might suggest reading some ISOs of people you find suspicious. I get the sense from your reads list that you did a pretty cursory read, which I understand given the length of the game.

I think your slot is town and if we can get you more plugged in, you'll be more of an asset.

[midwaybear]

midway do you have any reads

maxwell: I remember townleaning Harumi, so probably wouldn't look to vote here yet. I think the vote on me wasn't too great though because there seemed to be little follow up. Admittedly, my explanations for voting Italiano weren't the greatest, but it just seems like maxwell got just enough to throw a vote on me and then dipped. Probably neutral right now.
GC: I don't have too much of an opinion. I remember him asking some questions that I thought were pro-town, but I'm not sure how easily they could be faked. I also am getting a negative gut impression, but that needs to be fleshed out more.
Mom: BM was pretty townie. Not interested in limming her today.
Andres: The stuff he posted at the beginning of the day seemed legit, and there was also a line directed towards you that seemed legit. I'd like to see him solving more in that group of {RLotus, VPB, you}.
Elements: Still relatively townie. Idk why people scumread them.
VPB: I don't townread him anymore. I think I originally townread him for thinking the same thoughts as me, but I'm not sure how reliable that is. I don't scumread him either though.
Datisi: Not much of an impression either :/
Dunn: I think you had a point about his vote late on me. Other than that, I'm not sure how to read him yet, but he seems to be posting more which probably helps with the rest of you reading him.
Cookie Monster: I don't think the readlist was scummy, and I remember getting a faint townlean from it for some reason.
RLotus: He pushed a town Italiano for most of the day. I generally scumread players who push town, but idk if it is in his scumrange to be so aggro about it.

So right now, I wouldn't want to lim Andres, Mom, and Elements. Probably not Cookie Monster either, but I might be giving a newbie pass.

[midwaybear]

Actually, I think I'm townleaning VPB's response to what Andres is pursuing. The annoyance seems reasonable, and I think scum VPB might be pursing some other points in response rather than doubling down on Datisi = town.

[VP Baltar]

GC: I don't have too much of an opinion. I remember him asking some questions that I thought were pro-town, but I'm not sure how easily they could be faked. I also am getting a negative gut impression, but that needs to be fleshed out more.

Would definitely be interested in hearing more on this when you figure out what is pinging your gut

[OutWorldER]

Official Vote Count 2.01

The Ulster Museum, Northern Ireland

---

Elimination

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to eliminate someone.

Dunnstral (3): VP Baltar, Datisi, Green Crayons
midwaybear (2): Dunnstral, maxwell
Green Crayons (1): Andresvmb
maxwell (1): Momrangal
Cookie Monster (1): Elements

Not Voting

(3): midwaybear, RLotus, Cookie Monster

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-03-17 21:34:56).

Mod notes: Sorry for the delay! Been preparing to have relatives over, VC frequency will probably take a hit. Apologies.

[/area]

[Green Crayons]

Elements, what happened to your Lotus focus from D1?

His iso being stagnant with reads the entire game, then when this is pointed out he comes back and starts being active in a way that to me seems like scum panic to put out good town stuff.

an interesting thought has crossed my mind. What if RL is scum, sort of just bobbing along because his scum buddies are inactive; let's say Testarossa and Dunn, then battle mage replaces one of them. Suddenly there's a turnaround in activity from both slots who co-ordinate a back and forth to make both look more towny.

VOTE: RLotus

people are generally ambivalent towards you. you're sort of sitting there in the middle of game impact. No one's pushed for you. You're towny enough that scum haven't bothered to push you but not so towny they need to try discredit you. Idk I'm spouting nonsense, vibes.

VOTE: RLotus

[Green Crayons]

Why is RLotus being wagoned? Looking at the votecount, I could vote GC, Italiano, and RLotus if people sell me on it.

was the "if people sell me on it" referring to all three of those players, or just Lotus?

[Green Crayons]

Admittedly, my explanations for voting Italiano weren't the greatest, but it just seems like maxwell got just enough to throw a vote on me and then dipped.

do you have anything to add about your VD vote that you think maxwell should have explored before re-voting you?

[Green Crayons]

@midway: do you think your play has shifted from when you replaced in/were catching up, to now? Spoiler: I do. I hate to just say ~it's vibes~ because that's unhelpful, frankly, so trying to be a bit more concrete: you seemed to dive a bit more in-depth with others' posting earlier on, but now you seem more like you're just bobbing along with where ever the thread's current takes you. What's with the shift?

[maxwell]

Apologies for my absence, will try to catch up shortly

[maxwell]

lol
Cookie Monster's "read list" is a scum claim
VOTE: Cookie Monster

Depressingly, don't think so, they appear to be a gimmick alt, not really expecting anything useful from them in terms of content.

I don't really have thoughts on the argument between datisi and andres, they don't look like scum to me, still think midwaybear is scummy.

[VP Baltar]

lol
Cookie Monster's "read list" is a scum claim
VOTE: Cookie Monster

Depressingly, don't think so, they appear to be a gimmick alt, not really expecting anything useful from them in terms of content.

I don't really have thoughts on the argument between datisi and andres, they don't look like scum to me, still think midwaybear is scummy.

Do you think elements' vote is scummy?

It kind of comes across that way to me. Cookie could be an alt, but if they are an actual noob, it seems like LHF