Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Andresvmb]

If I’m wrong on GC btw, I would flip {Duchess/Cookie Monster, RLotus}. I think that would make a lot of sense.

[Momrangal]

You too? Hmmm

[Andresvmb]

You too? Hmmm

I landed there yesterday and have consistently argued that today.

[Andresvmb]

Like youre not even responding to the accusation that i said thay youre trying to widen poe -> you outted a bunch of ppl yousay you would be "unopposed" to eliminating. Like u threw in a bunch of inactive slots and added me and called it a day.

i dont understand what that means but also i dont care about how you envision how i should play so i have no inclination to respond to your characterization of my play

you do know what it means u just wanna waste conversation to fluff and ignore it.

VOTE: RTP

I mean yeah, again, this slot is definitely worth flipping. And I would argue it would clear Dunn.

[Andresvmb]

I'm still here on RTP. Come back. It's warm and cozy. Or how about maxwell for lazily riding RTP's coattails in pushing a GC vote on weaksauce theory, after RTP early called his slot town.

Yeah I’m going to insist. The fact that they backed off at the end after they probably decided to just shoot RTP really brings the point home.

I am going to strongly suggest that GC is Scum here. In fact my read has only hardened after ISO’ing there, and I would like to encourage all of you to read there carefully.

[Andresvmb]

I would be surprised if that's the entire team, but GC and/or andres have variously made me feel uneasy this game in ways I haven't really articulated to myself.

And if GC flips Scum, don’t let VPB get away with this distancing. They were vibing quite well D1 to now make this post, which comes across as a little funny to me.

[Andresvmb]

@Momrangal, @Cookie Monster, logically you should have no problem voting for Green Crayons. In fact I think you should join me here.

[Momrangal]

VOTE: green crayon

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: green crayon

e-2

I don't like his push on me today

something something "and at this point i think a flip either way would be informative" 1967

[Datisi]

re: momrangal
you're definitely not gonna hear me arguing that baltar and max are partners, but those posts you pointed out don't really seem anti-partnery to me? like to me it reads as a relatively-easily-fakeable solving.

i don't think you responded to what i was more interested about. when/what push on duchess were you talking about?

i'll get to your other stuff tomorrow. i'm decently confused about your recent posts, claiming you'd be floored if dats/baltar(/lotus) was all town, then turning around and calling that speculative because we're being loud and scum often isn't loud. i feel like i need to review your d1 again which i do not have the brain cells for right now

I tried to explain this I believe but maybe I wasn’t clear. I would be floored if you were all Town in the universe that Dunn is Town. Because then that’s two consecutive executions of relatively easier players to push lead by a combination of the group I highlighted plus a few other actors.

right. but, you said it yourself you do not townread dunn. and that we're more likely town than not because we're loud. and all three of us have at least somewhat strong preferences for a dunn vote. would it not make sense to flip dunn here? if he's scum, it's a beautiful flip. if he's town, it's Not Great, but it rids of a null-scummish slot, and it would show that there is probably something very fucky going on in the town.

All right, that's fair enough, when you put it that way, I understand where you're coming from. I am hesitant because I've seen Dunn as lurking underwhelming town before and it doesn't feel far off from that here (plus I don't think his points about midway are bad!). I probably need to quit being lazy and take a broader view of the game at this point, it's just...daunting.

i mean, i don't necessarily think they're bad either, like midway is definitely not a shining beacon of towniness here. but it's not the points themselves, i don't think they're fakeable for scum!dunn, and it's more about the timing.

He didn't push duchess as a scumread at all and I'm not sure what you're seeing there exactly.

thonk

I still don't see scum in VPB and Datisi after reconsidering. After reading a couple VPB games, it seems like he has a tendency to try to discredit people pushing on him as town. At first I thought it was scummy, but I think that is town behavior for him.

I still have this lingering gut paranoia about him regardless. Maybe he could be a deepwolf here? I dunno I guess I can't shake the feeling I got day 1. Anyway, he's in my townblock.

This actually makes no sense to me. So I’m going to say I think it’s coming from Town.

I mean, you say that a player that is discrediting those that question them after they’ve made a consistently bad push, and gives you bad vibes, is in your Town block, but could be deep Scum? What Scum doesn’t try to take advantage of these points unless they’re taking about a Partner?

i don't understand this view at all. like, lotus is also one of the people that wants dunn dead. baltar is heavily helping out there. if you assume lotus!scum and baltar!town, why in the heck would lotus start trying to abuse the ~paranoia~ now?

At first, GC makes the point that Duchess is trying to defend a Partner, and that they’re both Scum.

could you link this? i'm scrolling around early green's iso, and i don't see it.

this wagon is giving me Bad vibes and the fact that andres' vote is the best one on it is not comforting

gotta run for a bit, be back Soon(tm)

[Green Crayons]

I'm still here on RTP. Come back. It's warm and cozy. Or how about maxwell for lazily riding RTP's coattails in pushing a GC vote on weaksauce theory, after RTP early called his slot town.

Yeah I’m going to insist. The fact that they backed off at the end after they probably decided to just shoot RTP really brings the point home.

I am going to strongly suggest that GC is Scum here. In fact my read has only hardened after ISO’ing there, and I would like to encourage all of you to read there carefully.

I’ve already addressed this.

Post 1378 and Post 1429 echoed suspicions i had about RTP at the time.

i've put a pause on my RTP suspicions for reasons, so this is a "other player voiced reasons to suspect RTP that mirrored my own reasons" read

And once Italiano becomes a near certainty, this comes out? And you’re not suspicious?

this was in reference to RTP backing off of his GC vote

I thought he had spotted something in the thread which i think is obvious

Rtp was rereading the entire game repeatedly yesterday.

I thought that they had finally saw my claim when they mysteriously unvoted me and told others to back off.

[Green Crayons]

ind it difficult to beleive that a person entirely forgets a tell they used to use once upon a time BUT I guess I could give you the benefit of the doubt

What’s exactly your theory here of why VP!scum would be lying?

[Andresvmb]

would it not make sense to flip dunn here?

I want to flip the player I Scum Read the most. Just because you all think that Dunn is Scum (I don’t find Dunn particularly convincing either way) does not mean that I have to agree. And I already have the sense that something is going on. Which is why I’m not going along. I don’t need to flip Dunn to confirm that.

[Andresvmb]

i don't understand this view at all. like, lotus is also one of the people that wants dunn dead. baltar is heavily helping out there. if you assume lotus!scum and baltar!town, why in the heck would lotus start trying to abuse the ~paranoia~ now?

Did you even read what I wrote? I was arguing that RLotus is probably Town for that post, because the thought process behind the post is rather convoluted. I am not making an assumption that RLotus is Scum, and VPB is Town.

[Andresvmb]

could you link this? i'm scrolling around early green's iso, and i don't see it.

Do you think Duchess and Italiano are scum together? Or that duchess was scum trying to pocket a low hanging fruit townie?

I toyed with the idea of maybe s/s, but that post I was quoting specifically feels more like s/t. Also on the aggression scale my Q to VD was so benign that I don’t think a scum would have felt compelled to preemptively attack it on behalf of another scum who hadn’t yet responded. Couple that with VD-scum turning around to vote Dutchess-scum seems unlikely though not out of the realm of reasonable strategy (this doesn’t seem like a quick elim game, in terms of attitude and no players that I know of who will insta hammer).

The very first sentence confirms what I’m saying. They “toyed with the idea” of Italiano and Duchess being both Scum, but after Italiano turns around and votes for Duchess, it appears to be less likely (but not that they leave themselves open by saying that it could just be “strategy”).

[Andresvmb]

I thought that they had finally saw my claim when they mysteriously unvoted me and told others to back off.

Are you being serious right now? What post could they possibly have interpreted as a claim of any sort? Quote it. Because I haven’t read it, and I read every post if yours. And since you’re hinting so heavily at it, you’re going to clarify this now.

[Green Crayons]

lol it's on the first page

[Green Crayons]

Also, what's a friendly neighbor?

[Green Crayons]

you're vomiting confbias on my dutchess suspicions. that's just scumhunting my guy.

[Andresvmb]

I’ve already addressed this.

And I think you’re full of it. I am basically saying that I don’t buy your explanation.

[Green Crayons]

at minimum it requires dutchess to be town, which i don't think she is. i stepped away from pushing her because she flagrantly lied about my play, twice, and nobody gave a shit and it was going to give me an aneurysm

[Green Crayons]

okay

[Andresvmb]

Also, what's a friendly neighbor?

You want me to believe that your reaction to VPB there is a hint at your role? Is this a joke? VPB at that stage of the game couldn’t possibly know anybody else is a Friendly Neighbor, unless I’m an idiot with mechanics. So you’re hinting at Informed in some way. That doesn’t make me feel any better about your slot.

[Andresvmb]

And that RTP went all the way back to this back and forth banter and decided to back off of you because of it? There’s no way you’re making this argument with a straight face.

[Green Crayons]

why would Baltar need to know that there was a neighborizer? what is even your thought process.

I saw Baltar's post and thought either he was just shooting the breeze, and it was worth putting out a crumb, or maybe similar to a game i just played (I believe with Baltar) where there were multiple folks of the same role (here, neighborizers) and he was trying to see if there was a similar situation