Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[VP Baltar]

I have {GC, VPB, Elements} v. {Duchess/Cookie Monster, RLotus}

I'm not 100% certain I really understand what is going on with this list.

I definitely do not think elements is town. I'm also curious where midway falls on this list?

Can you explain a bit more here? I feel like you're saying people in these brackets share alignments or something, but I don't follow at all. Why are cookie and Lotus the same alignment necessarily?

[Datisi]

boy, you're stubborn.

Also, why is this your reaction? You agree that they should have claimed their target, but I’m the one who is stubborn? Ridiculous.

that's a videogame quote i felt like dropping there lol

but also my point still stands that not claiming hoodmate is far from a scumclaim and that you were overreacting. maybe i'm biased bc i knew and it was obvious to me that the hood existed. idk.

[Datisi]

v. {Duchess/Cookie Monster, RLotus, Dunnstral}*

also has lotus not been pushing on dunn as well?

[Andresvmb]

There’s no necessarily about any of that. It’s what I perceived D1.

If Dunn is Scum, I don’t really think I’m going to believe anybody telling me you [VPB], or Green Crayons is Scum for example. But if Dunn is Town? The reverse begins to look like a possibility (for some of the reasons I’ve already spoken about).

I thought Elements was Town D1. I did. But look at how Green Crayons approached Elements. A lot of wishy washiness, comments about how they are more on the Town side of the ledger, but certainly a potential option D1 (though not preferable to Dunn/maxwell for instance). It seems like a Scum player not wanting to make it too obvious that they’re aligned with someone else while defending them (and Elements did have some pressure on them D1 from RTP and me).

Elements went hard against RLotus D1, as did I of course. So probably not SvS. And given RTPs and Italiano’s flips, I think we have a Scum in {VPB, Datisi, RLotus}. And of course, Duchess and Green Crayons did have that bitter fight towards the beginning of D1, and Green Crayons hasn’t let go of that read. So yeah, somewhat convoluted I know. But that’s a bit what’s informing that fundamental fight I’m seeing. If Green Crayons flips Scum, I would certainly want to re-read {VPB, Datisi, Elements}. I think that makes sense. If Dunn flips Scum, then those three players are probably Town, and then you would look at {RLotus, Cookie Monster, and Dunnstral} and maybe a few others I’m forgetting.

And again, I do think confirming the Neighborizer role would be a bit silly for Scum buddies. Unless the role is a complete fabrication of course.

[Green Crayons]

GC, did you assume I had some knowledge of your role when I was spouting off at the start of the game?

my role specifically? no

i thought there was a slight chance you also had neighborizer, as it's a role that's only as powerful as the player and plus we (right? at least I) were just in that game with a bazillion trackers (or watchers?) so i thought maybe you were fishing to see if there was something like that at play here. apart from that admittedly longshot, i thought you just by happenstance gave a good opportunity for me to crumb.

[Andresvmb]

This game is messy. I don’t trust any of you. And that Neighborizer claim was handled horribly.

I want Elements to come back. It’s been 3 days since they said they would post and catch up and they haven’t. We have way too many players that just don’t feel like they’re trying particularly hard. Cookie Monster feels like they’re cruising somehow after having Duchess do some of the heavy lifting and them posting a reads list. The engagement this game is just too low.

[Green Crayons]

Question: if a neighborizers dies, does the neighborhood break up?

my role doesn't say, i'm asking for clarification

[VP Baltar]

The engagement this game is just too low.

Agree. I want to hear from people who haven't been posting in recent hours

[VP Baltar]

Question: if a neighborizers dies, does the neighborhood break up?

my role doesn't say, i'm asking for clarification

mod: can you clarify this in thread, thanks

[Green Crayons]

oh i asked for it in the neighborhood pt but i'll ask again here

@mod:

Question: if a neighborizers dies, does the neighborhood break up?

[Andresvmb]

I also don’t know that I believe that RTP was wrong about everything but they were NK’ed. And them claiming a Macho modifier certainly wouldn’t have gotten them killed given their history of false claims (they even fake claimed Mason as Town in a game, I mean c’mon).

[VP Baltar]

I also don’t know that I believe that RTP was wrong about everything but they were NK’ed. And them claiming a Macho modifier certainly wouldn’t have gotten them killed given their history of false claims (they even fake claimed Mason as Town in a game, I mean c’mon).

Yeah, I don't think we should presume they were wrong.

That being said, their death has had a noticable effect on game activity.

[VP Baltar]

But does Datisi make sense to you as their target for the Neighborizing?

I actually think a midfield townread might be where I would neighborize as well if I was in that spot, with my goal being to get a stronger town read on that slot.

I can't speak to GC's reasons. It just doesn't seem illogical to me. I can think of another reason he might target Datisi, but I'll let him reply.

GC, can you explain your thought process in picking Datisi?

[Green Crayons]

he was mid town, didn't think he was going to get NKed, also wanted him to discuss a thing about you because i was getting paranoid about my read on you for a couple of reasons but you and him were vibing hardcore D1 so figured he'd have some useful thoughts

[OutWorldER]

Question: if a neighborizers dies, does the neighborhood break up?

my role doesn't say, i'm asking for clarification

mod: can you clarify this in thread, thanks

oh i asked for it in the neighborhood pt but i'll ask again here

@mod:

Question: if a neighborizers dies, does the neighborhood break up?

Per the wiki: Any players added to a Neighborhood are added at the start of the next day,

regardless of whether the Neighborizer lives or not

[VP Baltar]

he was mid town, didn't think he was going to get NKed, also wanted him to discuss a thing about you because i was getting paranoid about my read on you for a couple of reasons but you and him were vibing hardcore D1 so figured he'd have some useful thoughts

Ok, thanks.

This is what I was getting at when I said I could see another reason for picking Datisi. He and I have clearly tied our fortunes to some degree, so neighborizing one is like a 2-for-1 to some extent.

I did this exact play as a friendly neighbor when Datisi and Iconeum were hardcore town locked in a recent game. I sent my message to Datisi to prove my towniness and by proxy link up with Iconeum.

[VP Baltar]

I did this exact play as a friendly neighbor when Datisi and Iconeum were hardcore town locked in a recent game.

Or was it the inverse? I can't remember

[maxwell]

Green Crayons wagon was pretty garbage, despite my suspicions day 1 I don't townread three of the people voting there and momrangal's vote seemingly came out of nowhere? Andres flailing wildly against the claim is

probably

not scum, certainly scum can play that way but he doesn't seem the type to go so aggressively against the grain there.

He didn't push duchess as a scumread at all and I'm not sure what you're seeing there exactly.

thonk

No, really, I went back to Baltars ISO and...he didn't call Duchess scum or vote there.

[maxwell]

I could vote Dunn since his vote on GC was that bad, could still see it coming from town, but would be shocked, shocked if {Dunn, midway, mom} contains 0 scum

[VP Baltar]

would be shocked, shocked if {Dunn, midway, mom} contains 0 scum

This is kind of where my head is at

[Andresvmb]

Andres flailing wildly against the claim is probably not scum

How was I flailing wildly against the claim by GC exactly? So you thought that claiming Neighborizer but hiding the identity of their target N1 was reasonable?

[maxwell]

Andres flailing wildly against the claim is probably not scum

How was I flailing wildly against the claim by GC exactly? So you thought that claiming Neighborizer but hiding the identity of their target N1 was reasonable?

I don't think scum fake-claims neighborizer without a target, no, because thatwould be completely stupid. The skepticism was excessive but probably not coming from a scum mindset.

[Andresvmb]

- had a post around mid day one where it seemed like he's town on italiano, but made absolutely no attempts of genuinely convincing anyone

So I ISO’ed Dunn. This isn’t the only important read they threw out there D1. They also said that they didn’t like the RTP wagon. And never voted for either RTP or Italiano. However, they have been very focused on midwaybear. And RTP didn’t really believe the slot was Scum and defended there, relying on meta.

Dunn has lurked, yes. I can’t tell how much, there’s some disagreement about whether it’s alignment indicative, and I don’t know that it’s enough for me. However, RTP did have an interesting take at the end of the day that GC could be Town, and that they thought that Dunn could be Scum instead (1580). As I’ve already detailed, if GC is Town, I broadly agree with this take and would go with some of the slots on this POE. RTP was wrong on Italiano, and they were wrong about me (we need to fix this, btw). But their take fits with what I’ve described as the warring factions in the game.

I’m sour about how that whole claim situation went down. I’ll take a step back for a bit.

[Momrangal]

Andres flailing wildly against the claim is probably not scum

How was I flailing wildly against the claim by GC exactly? So you thought that claiming Neighborizer but hiding the identity of their target N1 was reasonable?

I don't think scum fake-claims neighborizer without a target, no, because thatwould be completely stupid. The skepticism was excessive but probably not coming from a scum mindset.

Great. Anything useful to add?

[Momrangal]

Why are you being so aggressive Andres? I don't recall you acting in this manner at all Iin bears.

Y'all be so active this morning mmph