Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Andresvmb]

I'll just put this out there for now:

Town
{ItalianoVD [Town Neapolitan], RTP [Vanilla Town]}
Strong Lean Town
{ }
Lean Town
{RLotus, Datisi, Duchess/Cookie Monster [Loyal Roaming Doctor Claim]}
Slight Lean Town
{Lunar Martian/midwaybear [Vanilla Town Claim], Green Crayons [Neighborizer], Elements/DGB}
Neutral
{Dunnstral}
Slight Lean Scum
{Harumi Ayasato/maxwell, Testarossa/Battle Mage/Momrangal}
Lean Scum
{VPBaltar}

[Andresvmb]

Fundamentally, a lot of us have expressed various versions of the same thing regarding VPB. I think we need to start acting on it. RLotus, Elements/DGB, Duchess/Cookie Monster, and myself have all complained and detailed the shiftiness, opportunism, and mis-representation that VPB has been engaging in. I am no longer willing to give it a pass. I don't know that I am absolutely correct. But out of everyone, I do very much think VPB needs to be voted out.

[Andresvmb]

If I am wrong, so be it. I guess the only thing I can only say about myself is that I am trying to figure things out.

[Andresvmb]

I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.

Because it is stupid and bad faith. It hasn't met resistance so much as you're making terrible points that you're trying to take out of context. Anyone can go read the stuff you're pointing to and see how much of a misrepresentation it is.

Multiple people calling you town is indeed resistance. It's like you're not even trying to evaluate the people pushing on you, but instead calling them scum with blanket terms like bad faith.

I'm not surprised as you haven't been trying to solve anyone this game. It's funny that you call my logic stupid
when it is indeed true that you haven't been trying to solve and mainly riding the fence.

It is also rich that you call my logic stupid when your two top scumreads are 1. OMGUSing me, with terrible reasoning(bad faith blahblahblah) 2. Dunn for lurking, even though you've been repeatedly told that he lurks as both alignments. But, you keep Dunn as one of your top scum you can't get it through your head it seems.

@RLotus, why after posting this (and I agree), are you voting Dunn? Do you actually believe Dunn will flip Scum? VPB is still doing what you have previously criticized them for - but this time, to me. Do you not agree?

[Momrangal]

On the road home from a busy weekend, will resume work tomorrow, Y'ALL BETTER WATCH OUT

[Andresvmb]

I didn't have nearly the aggression that game that I do this game, in fact my pushes were very soft, if you want to believe my self meta.

You agree that different games call for different approaches yeah? If you played exactly the same as Scum every time, you would make for a really poor Scum player. And from what I can gather, you don’t seem like a bad Mafia player at all to me.

Like I said if you want to believe my self meta, but I am quite inexperienced as scum to emulate my town game

For the record, I very much believe you now.

[VP Baltar]

RLotus, Elements/DGB, Duchess/Cookie Monster, and myself have all complained and detailed the shiftiness, opportunism, and mis-representation that VPB has been engaging in. I

Lotus, elements and duchess all got undercut when I started putting context around the posts they were citing. Elements went so far as to basically apologize for promoting bullshit.

I am certain you are doing the exact same. I don't know why people think they are going to wall me to death this game and can just say "VPB is shifty!"

Like seriously, just saying the same thing over and over doesn't make it true. It's such a lazy attack in the first place, and second, when I asked the very people you said I was manipulating, none of them agreed with you.

This is the equivalent of saying, "VPB, tell us when you stopped kicking puppies?"

I never kicked a puppy. Either come with some actual evidence, or stop gaslighting me by saying I'm shifty. I've made multiple giant posts stating all my reads and thought processes. I couldn't be any more transparent.

[VP Baltar]

I'll just put this out there for now:

Town
{ItalianoVD [Town Neapolitan], RTP [Vanilla Town]}
Strong Lean Town
{ }
Lean Town
{RLotus, Datisi, Duchess/Cookie Monster [Loyal Roaming Doctor Claim]}
Slight Lean Town
{Lunar Martian/midwaybear [Vanilla Town Claim], Green Crayons [Neighborizer], Elements/DGB}
Neutral
{Dunnstral}
Slight Lean Scum
{Harumi Ayasato/maxwell, Testarossa/Battle Mage/Momrangal}
Lean Scum
{VPBaltar}

Lol this is the most "keeping my options open" list I've seen in a while. You have NO strong town reads at this point.


WEEEE WOOOO ALERT ALERT

[VP Baltar]

If I am wrong, so be it. I guess the only thing I can only say about myself is that I am trying to figure things out.

Why are you apologizing for a misyeet already? Especially one you claim to be super confident in.

[VP Baltar]

Also, Dunn is in his neutral pile after he flipped a shit the scum were railroading Dunn. Hahahahha

[maxwell]

I'm mulling over that andres post right now.

[Andresvmb]

I am certain you are doing the exact same. I don't know why people think they are going to wall me to death this game and can just say "VPB is shifty!"

Sure, I’m doing the same.

I’ll say it now - I am not really looking to your opinion for any guidance. It’s useless. I’m looking for others to react.

[Andresvmb]

Lol this is the most "keeping my options open" list I've seen in a while. You have NO strong town reads at this point.

Instead of making a clearly bad assumption, why don’t you ask me what the categories mean? When I place someone on the “Strong Town Read” category, that’s a ride or die. That’s a “I’m never going back on that read this game”. I only place players there when the evidence is overwhelming. We’re not there yet.

[VP Baltar]

I’m looking for others to react.

I can tell by the way you are kissing Lotus' butt there.


I'd rather not have to waste the last two days of deadline dunking on this garbage wall.

Why do you think midway is town again?

[VP Baltar]

Lol this is the most "keeping my options open" list I've seen in a while. You have NO strong town reads at this point.

Instead of making a clearly bad assumption, why don’t you ask me what the categories mean? When I place someone on the “Strong Town Read” category, that’s a ride or die. That’s a “I’m never going back on that read this game”. I only place players there when the evidence is overwhelming. We’re not there yet.

Cool story.

[Andresvmb]

Why are you apologizing for a misyeet already? Especially one you claim to be super confident in.

And this is just dumb honestly. I’m not apologizing for a misyeet. I always acknowledge the reality that I could be wildly misreading the game, or have everything completely backwards. It doesn’t mean I don’t believe what I’m arguing.

[Andresvmb]

Also, Dunn is in his neutral pile after he flipped a shit the scum were railroading Dunn. Hahahahha

I’m looking for others to react.

I can tell by the way you are kissing Lotus' butt there.


I'd rather not have to waste the last two days of deadline dunking on this garbage wall.

Why do you think midway is town again?

Nah if you’re going to engage me like this, I will ignore your questions thanks.

[VP Baltar]

Remember everyone, Strong Lean Town = basically confirmed by night actions.

Confused yet?

[VP Baltar]

Nah if you’re going to engage me like this, I will ignore your questions thanks.

Sure whatever excuse you need to not answer why you think midway is town.

[OutWorldER]

Official Vote Count 2.05

The Bierspinel, Steglitz, Berlin

---

Elimination

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to eliminate someone.

Dunnstral (3): RLotus, maxwell, DrippingGoofball
midwaybear (3): VP Baltar, Datisi, Dunnstral
Cookie Monster (2): Green Crayons, Cookie Monster
VP Baltar (2): Andresvmb, midwaybear
Green Crayons (1): Momrangal

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-03-17 21:34:56).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Datisi]

no offense but why is midwaybear still breathing?

[Datisi]

like gets prodded for not playing, first thing back is calling out a dats/andre/baltar scumteam (???) because we're the ones being active (??????)
gets called out for not quite making sense
claims his reads will evolve
get pressured by both me (2363) and baltar (2399) to explain how the hell is he getting to the conclusions he's getting at
upon seeing he's under intent, claims vt, while saying absolutely nothing about anything that's going on and goes back in the shadows

like seriously why are we letting this be

[Datisi]

@dgb why are you voting dunnstral

actually why have you twice now voted someone up, but as soon as they claimed you've switched your vote elsewhere?

[Datisi]

@andres, the only thing that made you change your mind on lotus was the fact you reread baltar's iso and found him scummy, right? can you tell me why you're town on midway and answer my earlier q of where you got the feeling baltar was encouraging me into pushing dunn? like i know you think i'm focusing on the wrong things or whatever so please can you work w me here?

speedskim tells me baltarvandres is a huge distraction that we should not be partaking in right now

but something tells me neither or them are gonna hear it

i am about to leave the house but should be back in an hour or two to sit down and go through it

[Andresvmb]

@andres, the only thing that made you change your mind on lotus was the fact you reread baltar's iso and found him scummy, right?

I am having a lot of trouble with you and VPB just assuming that my entire worldview is centered around VPB being Scum. No, this is incorrect. I feel RLotus is Town because (i) upon re-reading, I shared their way of analyzing things, in particular VPB’s play, (ii) they have consistently tried to read my alignment even when I’ve SR them, and tried to pay attention to my perspective (and for an added bonus have me as Town), and (iii) in RTP’s estimation, RLotus was playing outside of their Scum range, and I respect RTP’s point of view.

If VPB and Dunn both flip Town (and by some miracle the game is still going), then perhaps reconsider RLotus. Based on what I see now, it’s hard to picture RLotus as Scum. I do think RTP was underestimating RLotus’ skill as a Scum player to some extent. But at this stage, it’s not where I see myself voting at all.