Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Datisi]

But think about what that means for a second. Did the Scum really think that the best way to approach the game was to attack the loudest players in the game, instead of say pressuring some of the easier slots to execute? Because let’s get real for a minute. There are much easier targets than VPB or me for an execution.

andres, you can say that midway was attacking the loudest players, but genuinely he's directly attacking baltar and indirectly attacking me - i say that bc of his vote, and my and your read on baltar. like, hear me out. this was the votecount at the time midway jumped in and voted baltar:

midwaybear (5): maxwell, VP Baltar, Datisi, Dunnstral, DrippingGoofball
Cookie Monster (2) Green Crayons, Cookie Monster
Green Crayons (1): Momrangal
VP Baltar (1): Andresvmb

Not Voting (2): midwaybear, RLotus

what else can midway possibly counterwagon here??? people already said they don't want to vote cookie moster. probably the only person that wants to do that is green, and let's be real green isn't that influential. the green crayons wagon is practically dead, the only vote there is mom, which is a leftover vote from a wagon, and it's never going anywhere bc iirc green is her 3rd top townread now or something. what does that leave? the baltar wagon, which he jumps on with ??? reasons. and later on, he shades me and baltar together (2358) on nonsense reasoning.

like you can say his original reason extended to all three of us but he's plainly picked a side, which is attack baltar and discredit me (because if you wanna kill baltar, you cannot ignore me). building a completely new wagon is difficult, surely it's easier to side with what is already there.

[Andresvmb]

i don't know if you missed it, but literally my first words today were "hello why is midwaybear still alive". while i didn't call out max by name, i said i think literally nothing midway's done should get him out of being executed today, so i think it's at least implied that i don't think maxwell's vote change makes any sense.

Yeah it was implied. Now it’s explicit. I think I just wanted to see that point made more specifically.

[midwaybear]

I’ll be here on and off for a bit. I know I have been sort of scummy this game, so that makes it difficult to tell whether Datisi is opportunistic scum or aggro town. I think I will lightly meta him to see what I can find. Or if anyone has experience with Datisi, does he normally go this aggressively as town?

[Datisi]

if his thoughts about me/you/baltar being scum were actually yknow genuine, i imagine he'd be in here arguing about it??? except he just disappeared???

Multiple players have utterly failed to do this though. Do you not agree? What is DGB doing, for example? Are their positions genuine? How do we even know? They are not aggressively fighting for anything. Momrangal? They listed their view of the game, and they had Dunn as their top Town, and who did they have as Scum again? Me and maxwell? And where are they? How do we know if those reads are genuine? Because as far as I can tell, they’ve explained their read on maxwell but have completely failed to explain their read on me.

I guess my point is - not everybody playing subpar can be Scum. I have a tremendous amount of trouble differentiating bad from Scum. You could potentially be succumbing to a bit of that here.

i don't think midway and momrangal/dgb are comparable here. midway was on y-1 under intent, where, if scum doesn't think they have good odds of getting out alive, has very good reasons to shut the hell up.

also mom/dgb's absences are non-game-related. mom was v/la, her inactivity is nai. and i have asked mom to explain her reads. dgb is also an oddball, but its absence is nai, but i'm asking it to explain its actions as well. like i know it's sometimes difficult to tell bad from scum but you gotta at least try, and sure while not always is it scum, sometimes shit play is Just Scum.

[Datisi]

There’s no universe in which all those actions are all coming from Scum, and we know some of it came from Town for certain.

So I would just caution against thinking that every player needs to be aggressively be putting their thoughts out there or have a strong presence to be Town.

this was never my point. i never said this. i said why i think specifically midway's bad play / doing nothing at these times is scum!indicative. i've said why i think scum is more likely to be in the more quiet people generally, or why town is more likely to be posting in a game like this. but i was never making the argument that "whoever isn't hyper-aggressive solving the game 24/7 is a scumfuck".

[midwaybear]

UNVOTE: VPB
I'm going to go back on this vote because VPB has been trying way too hard to be scum here. At least I won't be considering him today.

[Datisi]

midway at y-1, with the consensus being on him: *nowehre to be seen*
midway at 3 votes, with multiple people pushing elsewhere: "magically appears*

like

why

are we letting this live

[midwaybear]

Nobody else was around when I claimed. You guys can put me at L-1 and I'll still talk lol

[Datisi]

Nobody else was around when I claimed. You guys can put me at L-1 and I'll still talk lol

within the half an hour after you claimed, there were 4 different people in the thread lol?

[midwaybear]

Yeah, but people weren't posting before, so I didn't "stay". Also, a lot of the posts after my claim weren't even related to it at all, so it's not like I was dodging stuff at that point.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE: VPB
I'm going to go back on this vote because VPB has been trying way too hard to be scum here. At least I won't be considering him today.

Are you saying I was trying hard after your vote and that's what changed your mind?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, has the neighborhood been dead today?

[Datisi]

there were at least two questions @ you about your claim that scum is more likely to be posting / that me/baltar are likely scum or whatever it was but ok

also i'm not too interested in discussing this bc scum!you could've easily waited until the thread got quieter

and that's not even the main point i'm making, which is that you weren't solving after being put on intent, naked claimed, and peaced out

pedit: it hasn't been the most active. however i think that is moreso my fault for noping out of this game for 3 days, green was encouraging me to post. or maybe he was annoyed at my absence, whichever interpretation you like

[midwaybear]

Are you saying I was trying hard after your vote and that's what changed your mind?

I forget when you voted me, but I was thinking about your wagon analysis specifically.

[Andresvmb]

There’s no universe in which all those actions are all coming from Scum, and we know some of it came from Town for certain.

So I would just caution against thinking that every player needs to be aggressively be putting their thoughts out there or have a strong presence to be Town.

this was never my point. i never said this. i said why i think specifically midway's bad play / doing nothing at these times is scum!indicative. i've said why i think scum is more likely to be in the more quiet people generally, or why town is more likely to be posting in a game like this. but i was never making the argument that "whoever isn't hyper-aggressive solving the game 24/7 is a scumfuck".

Just to clarify, I wasn’t saying that this was exactly your point. I’m just saying - I don’t know that I am particularly good at differentiating what is bad play from Scummy play, so I was just urging caution. That’s all.

[VP Baltar]

pedit: it hasn't been the most active. however i think that is moreso my fault for noping out of this game for 3 days, green was encouraging me to post. or maybe he was annoyed at my absence, whichever interpretation you like

I was mostly wondering about green. We can talk about that more on D3

[midwaybear]

you weren't solving after being put on intent, naked claimed, and peaced out

1. I haven't been able to make any reads really on Day 2. It doesn't seem like anyone else has been either.
2. This is NAI. Demotivation comes from either alignment. There are countless examples of town naked claiming.
3. I'm here now.

[Andresvmb]

what else can midway possibly counterwagon here???

Okay but where are midway’s Scum buddies then? I always try to make the basic assumption that the entire Team is not incompetent. If that were the case, we would more easily have found them. So why is VPB the only viable counter wagon at that point?

[Andresvmb]

The one player I will say makes some sense as a Partner, particularly if Dunn is Town, is RLotus. Let me check if midway voted for Dunn towards the beginning of the day one second.

[Datisi]

you weren't solving after being put on intent, naked claimed, and peaced out

1. I haven't been able to make any reads really on Day 2. It doesn't seem like anyone else has been either.
2. This is NAI. Demotivation comes from either alignment. There are countless examples of town naked claiming.
3. I'm here now.

1. oh gee i wonder which alignment isn't able to form reads. also that's blatantly untrue. the majority has put in at least *some* effort.
2. ok cool i don't care about examples. it's not solely about "demotivation". i'm also feeling demotivated. your reads were making no sense. it's never one sole thing. if you're debunking the "but so what i naked claimed, there's examples of town doing that!!" you're missing my point.
3. have something to show for it.

[Andresvmb]

I don't think that is scummy from Dunnstral because he probably knows his wagon doesn't really go anywhere as scum and just doesn't ask that question.

Like yeah I can’t say midwaybear and Dunn make a lot of sense other than as Scum buddies. After Dunn had seen pressure to begin the day and midwaybear had seen some but not a whole lot of it (and was asked for reads), this is where they landed on Dunn. It just seems so silly for a strategy.

[Datisi]

what else can midway possibly counterwagon here???

Okay but where are midway’s Scum buddies then? I always try to make the basic assumption that the entire Team is not incompetent. If that were the case, we would more easily have found them. So why is VPB the only viable counter wagon at that point?

andre, my skills at preflip is hilariously bad. i don't know. maybe they're among the lurkers, it's hard to tell with so many inactives. i'd bet at least one was voting midway. dunn might be a possible partner, i remember he was defending him at some point. the thing is scum does wacky shit sometimes. go one at the time, because i've very rarely successfully pointed out actual s/s associates prior to either flipping.

[midwaybear]

1. oh gee i wonder which alignment isn't able to form reads. also that's blatantly untrue. the majority has put in at least *some* effort.
2. ok cool i don't care about examples. it's not solely about "demotivation". i'm also feeling demotivated. your reads were making no sense. it's never one sole thing. if you're debunking the "but so what i naked claimed, there's examples of town doing that!!" you're missing my point.
3. have something to show for it.

Meh, I disagree that most have put in "some" effort. Or else the threshold would definitely include me.
Idk I'm just trying to say what comes to my mind. I recognize that they don't make much sense, but it's difficult to be confident in much this game.

[midwaybear]

And why in the hell is maxwell now having second thoughts about midwaybear? That definitely raised some flags for me. You didn’t find that somewhat suspicious? What has midway done at this point at E-1 that would really change your view of how things are developing?

I was suspicious at first, but I think the doubt is a reasonable reaction.

[VP Baltar]

Are you saying I was trying hard after your vote and that's what changed your mind?

I forget when you voted me, but I was thinking about your wagon analysis specifically.

I mean, you voted me not super long after (about 200 posts) after I finished the off wagon analysis part. What made you reconsider that analysis?