Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Andresvmb]

If you trust that you haven’t gotten everything wrong this game, and that Datisi is Town, then you should be looking for these little clues.

[Andresvmb]

The TMI argument GC has deployed against me to minimize my role today - you do realize they put out the exact same argument out against Duchess?

[OutWorldER]

Official Vote Count 3.03

Okinawa Prefectural Musuem

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Elimination

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.


Green Crayons (4): VP Baltar, DrippingGoofball, Andresvmb, Datisi
Momrangal (1): maxwell
Datisi (1): RLotus

Not Voting

(3): Green Crayons, Dunnstral, Momrangal

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-03-31 19:39:15).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[OutWorldER]

Note: VC 3.02 had an error where it said maxwell was not voting. I have corrected 3.02 to reflect that he was voting Momrangal.

[VP Baltar]

Again, it also fits with {GC, RLotus} Scum though doesn’t it? You saw that RLotus floated the question - why would Green Crayons go against you as Scum? You saw that today, right? Well, Mom went against me

yesterday and today

, yet RLotus didn’t actually say that about Mom too. You don’t think that’s interesting?

I think I see it slightly different. In a hypothetical Lotus/GC scum team, I think Mom fits as a buddy.

I think Lotus has some inconsistency around a position on momrangal that rings weird.

Anyhow, doesn't matter right now because I agree that a GC yeet makes a lot of sense for triangulating information today.

@datisi - I thought you found GC town because of the way he talked in the hood too?

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

Vote is still on GC in spirit. I want to hear from Lotus and Dunn before we end this day.

[Andresvmb]

I think I see it slightly different. In a hypothetical Lotus/GC scum team, I think Mom fits as a buddy.

I wouldn’t vote there. That’s all I’m saying. If I’m still around by the time all of this plays out, I have a strong sense of what I’ll want to do. But that’s some ways away still.

[Datisi]

lotus did come out the gate pretty certain on mom being scum, no? and he didn't falter on it, but also never showed any support to max with a mom wagon. if it turns out i got roped into a 2-scum neighborhood, i'm gonna be pissed lol

@baltar, kinda, but i don't think it's as strong as i first thought. i had said during n2 that i'm still suspicious of cookie despite her claim. now, had cookie lived, and green voted there expecting me to follow him, it'd have been a ~decent indicator that green is scum imo. however, the fact that cookie died anyway isn't clearing for him i don't think? she was a doc after all, maybe scum were afraid to push her, maybe they thought even with my support they couldn't have gotten the yeet through. there's too many assumptions for this to be a strong point against scum!green.

[RLotus]

lotus did come out the gate pretty certain on mom being scum, no? and he didn't falter on it, but also never showed any support to max with a mom wagon. if it turns out i got roped into a 2-scum neighborhood, i'm gonna be pissed lol

I did falter on it in a conversation with andre

[RLotus]

If Green Crayons flips Scum, unfortunately it probably means RLotus is Scum. I would flip RLotus immediately after flipping GC if GC is Scum. Why? Well, based on all of the pushes and what we’ve seen this game, maxwell wouldn’t make sense as a Partner for GC. I’m fact, the interactions between Green Crayons and RLotus do point to buddies, provided that GC is Scum. If GC is Town, RLotus is good most likely, and I’m going to sink into despair trying to convince myself that you’re Scum when you don’t feel like it anymore. I think in that situation I would put a hero vote down for Dunn and hope for the best.

I have also hard defended RTP, Duchess, Cookie Monst/Duchess, and midway when I felt they were the wrong places to go. This is just how I play. So why I am not just town with this logic? I even just dissuaded you from going for VPB at the beginning of the day. So why am I not partners with VPB?

You are looking at a very narrow segment of my gameplay and giving me partner equity with GC, when in reality I've been doing this to people I think is town all game. If GC flips scum, I am in fact still NOT scum.

[RLotus]

Again, it also fits with {GC, RLotus} Scum though doesn’t it? You saw that RLotus floated the question - why would Green Crayons go against you as Scum? You saw that today, right? Well, Mom went against me

yesterday and today

, yet RLotus didn’t actually say that about Mom too. You don’t think that’s interesting?

Yeah because it is blatantly obvious that they are out of touch with the game no matter their alignment. GC on the other hand is not and I presume knows what he was doing.

[VP Baltar]

Lotus, what are your thoughts on what's been said about GC? Let's put away associatives and trying to solve the full game. You said earlier you didn't want to yeet GC without mass claim. Do you still feel that way?

[RLotus]

I don't think Momrangal is aware of the gamestate enough to know how to position themself correctly, if they are scum, if you get what I mean.

[Andresvmb]

You are looking at a very narrow segment of my gameplay and giving me partner equity with GC, when in reality I've been doing this to people I think is town all game. If GC flips scum, I am in fact still NOT scum.

I think that’s where I’ll want to go if GC flips Scum, that’s the truth. Look I’m not infallible. I don’t want to pretend that I always know what I’m doing. But something about it would certainly feel right. I’m happy taking it one step at a time.

[RLotus]

Lotus, what are your thoughts on what's been said about GC? Let's put away associatives and trying to solve the full game. You said earlier you didn't want to yeet GC without mass claim. Do you still feel that way?

Yes if there isn't another PR I think GC is probably town and if there is another PR well we would have to evaluate between GC and the other PR claim.

Yeah, like I said, you bring up good points about GC riding town wagons without putting much of his own into the game. It is very possible he is scum. It really just doesn't feel correct to me, though.

I am not going to try to hard dissuade you guys from this one like the others because there is definitely still doubt in my mind about GC and I could be wrong about Datisi. I still want datisi today really bad but it looks like that's not happening.

Thinking about it, it is quite frustrating that you think a GC green flip clears me town when RTP and Duchess flipping green really should have already done that but whatever.

[RLotus]

You are looking at a very narrow segment of my gameplay and giving me partner equity with GC, when in reality I've been doing this to people I think is town all game. If GC flips scum, I am in fact still NOT scum.

I think that’s where I’ll want to go if GC flips Scum, that’s the truth. Look I’m not infallible. I don’t want to pretend that I always know what I’m doing. But something about it would certainly feel right. I’m happy taking it one step at a time.

Explain why you think GC flipping green clears me, but RTP and Duchess do not.

[RLotus]

Town is so doomed

[VP Baltar]

Fwiw, I'm not sold on you being scum Lotus. Just a possibility. The problem we have with this game is the very active people don't look scummy, at least for me.

[Andresvmb]

You are looking at a very narrow segment of my gameplay and giving me partner equity with GC, when in reality I've been doing this to people I think is town all game. If GC flips scum, I am in fact still NOT scum.

I think that’s where I’ll want to go if GC flips Scum, that’s the truth. Look I’m not infallible. I don’t want to pretend that I always know what I’m doing. But something about it would certainly feel right. I’m happy taking it one step at a time.

Explain why you think GC flipping green clears me, but RTP and Duchess do not.

Because Scum don’t have to be on every bad push. And they can certainly defend some of the Town. They have to leave enough of a window to win, while staying away from the more obvious Town. If GC flips Scum, you would have been the only person today to directly address me and try and dissuade me from that course of action at a crucial juncture in the game. If you did that to Town, I’m happy locking you as Town. If you did that to Scum, I would feel compelled to flip you.

[RLotus]

You are looking at a very narrow segment of my gameplay and giving me partner equity with GC, when in reality I've been doing this to people I think is town all game. If GC flips scum, I am in fact still NOT scum.

I think that’s where I’ll want to go if GC flips Scum, that’s the truth. Look I’m not infallible. I don’t want to pretend that I always know what I’m doing. But something about it would certainly feel right. I’m happy taking it one step at a time.

Explain why you think GC flipping green clears me, but RTP and Duchess do not.

Because Scum don’t have to be on every bad push. And they can certainly defend some of the Town. They have to leave enough of a window to win, while staying away from the more obvious Town. If GC flips Scum, you would have been the only person today to directly address me and try and dissuade me from that course of action at a crucial juncture in the game. If you did that to Town, I’m happy locking you as Town. If you did that to Scum, I would feel compelled to flip you.

So I think I get what you mean defending GC here was more crucial than when I did it to RTP and Duchess, and therefor are alignments are apparently linked.

What about VPB? I think you changing your mind on VPB was a very crucial point in the game, Idk if we would end up here if you hadn't. So why is my alignment not linked to his?

[RLotus]

You really think a scum is going to constantly try to get in the way of miselims, like one or two I understand, but it seems like that is what I am constantly doing.

[Andresvmb]

What about VPB? I think you changing your mind on VPB was a very crucial point in the game, Idk if we would end up here if you hadn't. So why is my alignment not linked to his?

Defending Scum is far more incriminating than defending Town is clearing. They’re not comparable. You can sacrifice some slots on the Town side and make them hard to flip, and still win as Scum. It’s much harder to win if you let your buddies get executed.

[RLotus]

I try to save you numbskulls from miselims over and over and can't get townread for it smfh

[Andresvmb]

You really think a scum is going to constantly try to get in the way of miselims, like one or two I understand, but it seems like that is what I am constantly doing.

I do think you’ve overstated your case on Italiano for example. That was the D1 mis-execution. And I don’t remember you standing in the way of midwaybear. In fact no one tried to stop that one as hard as I did.

[Andresvmb]

The point is easy to spot Scum are the ones constantly looking for a mis-execution. Those are generally bad players though. You’re not a bad player. It’s not going to be as straightforward either way.