Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[RLotus]

VOTE: HypoSoc

[RLotus]

lotus do you think scum are more likely to have more awkward itneractionsw ith eithother compared to lother slots in the fiest fiew pages ebfore they hight he corrext vube?

Perhaps inexperienced scum

[RLotus]

what are your thoughts on 15

I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary. Maybe it's kinda strange that Gretchen switched their vote already from Alice to gerain, I guess she was satisfied with Alice's answer to her question.

[RLotus]

It appears Entrapta, Grethcen, April Ludgate, and Artemiana are alts

[RLotus]

Gretchen is an April doppelganger

Looking more into it they are indeed doppelgangers

[RLotus]

welcome clidd

[RLotus]

No, you are not him. False alarm.

That would be April

[RLotus]

Should I have not outed him or something

[RLotus]

Umm I didn't have a point really

[RLotus]

Entrapta, could we see a reads list since you seem willing to vote a lot of people

[RLotus]

Eh I don’t really feel good about my reads currently. I suppose April and Mini feel town for now

that’s all I got

[RLotus]

Alright I'll give you three town, I think April + clidd + you are all town

Tell me more about the Mini read, I was very slightly pinged by the wording of this post:

are you worried that the evil-spirit hunting Winchester brothers are going to hunt you down as a doppelganger?

I could be like them ready to hunt out all the monsters of this game

but not enough to call it an actual scumlean

Her questioning of bugspray was slightly towny, I think over time Mini becomes a pretty easy read

So I guess you don’t scum read the people that you were voting and moreso putting pressure?

[RLotus]

what's scummy lmao

Why did you vote da dude while talking to April? Did you think entrapta was scummy?

[RLotus]

if entrapta is who i think they are, that might be a scum indicative replacement, ive seen essentially the exact same way when they were scum before, ill find the game eventually. ive seen them do it as town, though, to a lesser extent, but it's also slightly different when they do it as town.

i guess actually i cant out alts, though, so i cant do this.

He said his main in this game if you wanted to know

[RLotus]

Da Dude, any thoughts on the game?

[RLotus]

In post 272, April Ludgate wrote:
Clidd-Entrapta-Gretchen have 2 scum in them, maybe im wrong with that, but never is there zero, i would say.


I dislike this so much.

You're doing virtually the same thing tho

[RLotus]

Amelie's certainty about a scumteam is a little bit concerning. I'd have to know whether this is typical for her to really know if it's scummy tho. April has this sure of himself attitude that it does seem natural that he would be trying to put together teams off rip.

[RLotus]

My impression of the entrapta/Da Dude wagon is that it seems more likely that there are scum piling onto there prematurely, than it being a scum wagon with lots of townies on it. Town tend to be more deliberating than to impulsively jump onto a wagon like that. And, with who I perceive to be a strong/widely townread towny (April) starting the momentum and even saying he'd be ok if the wagon went over, I think scum would be comfortable with piling onto a towny at this point.

Especially ydra who put it at e-1 after April expressed that he was ok with the elim going through. I mean people like DFG, gretchen, and geraintm don't look good from their vote either. Basically I think there is scum on that wagon.

I really can't see entrapta/Da Dude's alignment from their actions or tone or whatever. With the way I see how the wagon is happening, his spot in the game does seem towny.

[RLotus]

honestly, im down to flip dadude, i think entrapta would have claimed PR if they were PR there, and i think it's an overall high info flip

Why would he claim PR on like page 10 with like 3 votes

[RLotus]

honestly, im down to flip dadude, i think entrapta would have claimed PR if they were PR there, and i think it's an overall high info flip

Why would he claim PR on like page 10 with like 3 votes

where'd this happen? i don't see a PR claim

It was in response to that April quote

[RLotus]

nah, their flip on me after they saw me going after entrapta is scummy

You mean after they saw you go for grethcen?

[RLotus]

nah, their flip on me after they saw me going after entrapta is scummy

You mean after they saw you go for grethcen?

no, they flipped when i unvoted gretchen onto entrapta in their catchup

They flipped when you moved your vote from entrapta to gretchen and I presume that is why they think you are partnered with da dude

[RLotus]

then good

VOTE: Gretchen

But you should definitely know of my ability to break down walls

Nothing too important in the next page but I don't like this at all.
I am now pretty certain the scum team is April Ludgate, Entrapta, and Clidd.

I thought you were towny for your poking and prodding but now I think it was all just for show. I hate the vote switch there and I think Flavorleaf is scum again.

Town: bugspray, Gretchen
Null: Minimegabyte, AliceK, Ydrasse
Scum: Clidd, Entrapta, April Ludgate

[RLotus]

@ rlotus post 392 - i can't work out if you think there is merit in eliminating da dude to get info on the people on the wagon? April seem's to think so.

No, I did just say I think he's likely town based on his spot in the game

[RLotus]

Clidd's noncomittal reads are causing alarm bells to loudly blare in my head.

In addition most of the reads do not have as much depth as would first appear. The reads on me/rllotus/gerain compares us to how we played in a recent game with clidd where lotus+I were scumbuddies and he groups us again here. Clidd is a very intelligent and analytical player and I would expect town!clidd would separate us and give a more in depth read.

I agree with the premise that not committing to reads is something scum tend to do to absolve themselves when that read flips town or what have you. But, I don't know if I would expect to be hard committing to reads or having too many in depth thoughts this early in the game. At least personally, I can't see a whole lot of AI actions that people have taken, so I don't agree that this is necessarily damning to clidd at this moment.

In fact, I tend to find it scummy when people have too confident reads this early. (Da Dude's wagon)

I do think your thought process is very towny here regardless.

[RLotus]

It's reasonable that scum would bus their partner in this situation, thinking no way this is going over this early so I'll get the credit for later on.

However Grethchen, DFG, and April have all doubled down on wanting to push the wagon over. Ydra put the vote at e-1 seemingly with full intent to elim. AliceK maybe, but the impression I get is they indeed scum read Da Dude based on her reaction to Mini town reading him. I kind of doubt there is a partner on the wagon if Da Dude flips scum.

Anyway I remain skeptical that Da Dude actually flips scum

[RLotus]

In post 391, RLotus wrote:
Amelie's certainty about a scumteam is a little bit concerning. I'd have to know whether this is typical for her to really know if it's scummy tho. April has this sure of himself attitude that it does seem natural that he would be trying to put together teams off rip.


Most of the people in this game haven't even played one game with me. Why are you asking other people to read me?
RLotus is definitely a scum read after this post. In my last game with RLotus, I was elimmed the day I replaced in for being too confident.

I wasn't asking someone else to read you, I was expressing that I don't know if it's necessarily scummy for you to do that.

If I recall correctly you had confidence on one read not trying to solve the whole game like now and I don't see one day phase of one game good enough to understand how you play.

In post 394, RLotus wrote:
In post 393, April Ludgate wrote:
honestly, im down to flip dadude, i think entrapta would have claimed PR if they were PR there, and i think it's an overall high info flip

Why would he claim PR on like page 10 with like 3 votes


I don't recall this ever happening.

Read the april quote. April says entrapta would have claimed PR there and I said asked why would he do that. Because it's absurd.

[RLotus]

When I look at the context that entrapta got frustrated, I don't know if it necessarily feels like scum going down and getting frustrated, but rather getting annoyed with the "hostility" towards them. Bugspray and especially April were badgering them and I can see how it became unfun. I've been in similar situations and trying to defend yourself when there's nothing to defend can be unfun and stressfui. Idk I guess I empathize.

Did Entrapta just realize that April is an influential player and saw the writing on the wall? Entrapta only accumulated 3 votes while they were
in the game. Several people seem to have confidence in Da Dude flipping scum, perhaps I am missing something.

[RLotus]

You know it's kind of funny how similar Entrapta's rep out and April's self vote are in their motivation.

[RLotus]

lol

[RLotus]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[RLotus]

buspray
Amelie
--
Klick
Mini
--
April
Da Dude
--
AliceK
Hyposoc
clidd
geraintm
--
DGB
Grethcen

[RLotus]

UNVOTE: HypoSoc

why

[RLotus]

So I like clidd's reads generally and even if he's scum I'm kinda fine with him living longer

VOTE: April Ludgate

Can't help but feel like too much makes sense if this is scum

How does it make sense?

[RLotus]

Pretty sure the inno child thing is a meme and should be removed when trying to read april.

[RLotus]

{bugspray}

{geraintm} {Klick} {April Ludgate}

{Amélie} {MiniMegabyte}

↓

{DrippingGoofball}

↑

{RLotus} {AliceK} {Gretchen}

{Dannflor} {HypoSoc}

↓

How come you jumped off of Hyposoc so quickly when you still scumread him?

[RLotus]

pedit: I wanted to see someone's reaction to that.

So the vote was a reaction test or the unvote was a reaction test?

[RLotus]

So the vote was a reaction test or the unvote was a reaction test?

This second question was an unnecessary extension.

Can you answer it

[RLotus]

So the vote was a reaction test or the unvote was a reaction test?

This second question was an unnecessary extension.

Can you answer it

Well since you won't I'll just explain my thought process. I can't understand what you stand to gain in making a reaction test and then immediately back off from it. Unless you were trying to see what April would say? I know I didn't know that April would respond in particular.

Also, clidd, why are you being guarded this game?

After pondering what this means for your alignment, I'm beginning to think this answer to no one and compromise for no one attitude you've got going on probably comes from a town conviction. Maybe he can do this "I don't care what you think of my alignment" act as scum, but I'm leaning town for now.

[RLotus]

At first I got scum feeling from HypoSoc in the way he was trusting in April's claim, because I thought it was clear that it wasn't a serious claim. It was as if he is scum that knows April is town. Then, several other people seemed to be taking April's claim seriously, so maybe not out of the ordinary after all? He is now doubling down on believing the claim, so maybe it is just scum.

[RLotus]

VOTE: gretchen

[RLotus]

but yeah, just so you know April, if you wanna know what killed my motivation and enthusiasm for this game, it was you saying that right at the start

This was pretty much entrapta's reaction to April, yet you thought it was scummy of them. If you had to same reaction how come you were so sure in entrapta being scum?

[RLotus]

In post 791, RLotus wrote:
VOTE: gretchen


this feels like someone dropping from a wagon that wasnt going anywhere to one that was gettign traction. don't like this

How is that scummy?

[RLotus]

entrapta was being sussed for normal things? and repped out after using it as an excuse was why i dislike that

Gretchen is coming across to me like they're trying too hard to be fun, not that I think they have a hard time doing that, but I feel like that's specifically the play with them here because I do see agenda within it, even this early, which I normally wait it out

this 'trying to hard to be fun' shit and thinking me wanting to have fun in a mafia game is tied to my alignment really riles me up

Hm ok I see it is different. I guess I expected you to side more with entrapta since you know if you are town that April is shit pushing you.

[RLotus]

UNVOTE:

[RLotus]

I get the impression that geraintm gets scumread alot as town due to his passiveness and narrow vote logic. I have no idea what his tells are and it is quite hard for me to read him one way or the other.

[RLotus]

The one time I played with him before this he was bleeding town. He didn't really care how he was getting read and just said what was on his mind. His other town games I've read looked a lot like this as well. Atm he feels a bit... reserved, compared to what I've seen from him before on D1 as town? I feel like he's trying not to step on any mines, whereas when I've seen him before as town I didn't have that impression.

Well the one game I've played with him and he was town, he did pretty much this.

[RLotus]

I believe mmb have higher chance to flip scum than dannflor. Jump on April looked forced.
VOTE: mmb

Do you still think dannflor is scum?

[RLotus]

In post 903, Solon wrote:
I be a TPR! Get off my wagon or be off with thy heads!


really, another day 1 claim. i think i believe about one third of these are true

gretchen and klick are pretty much always the same alignment soo

I don't really see a reason not to believe klick or grethcen. Would klick really run a gambit like that to save his partner? Klick certaintly wouldn't do that as scum to save a town pr. Maybe gretchen happened to fake claim a pr that supposedly synergizes with Klick? Seems doubtful.

Mini's slot claimed in a really weird spot. Doesn't seem natural that they would feel the pressure to claim there. It is also a pretty safe fakeclaim given there are 2 other prs that can die in the night.

[RLotus]

I want to shoot inside of HypoSoc, DGB, and AliceK for today

VOTE: HypoSoc

[RLotus]

In post 903, Solon wrote:
I be a TPR! Get off my wagon or be off with thy heads!


really, another day 1 claim. i think i believe about one third of these are true

gretchen and klick are pretty much always the same alignment soo

I don't really see a reason not to believe klick or grethcen. Would klick really run a gambit like that to save his partner? Klick certaintly wouldn't do that as scum to save a town pr. Maybe gretchen happened to fake claim a pr that supposedly synergizes with Klick? Seems doubtful.

Mini's slot claimed in a really weird spot. Doesn't seem natural that they would feel the pressure to claim there. It is also a pretty safe fakeclaim given there are 2 other prs that can die in the night.

I'm scumreding this as well

Btw I didn't even know about the other claims when I made mine. This subtle discrediting shit aint gonna fly

Wasn't subtle whatsoever.

[RLotus]

You're making out that it could be scummy without directly calling it scummy - I'd say that was an attempt at being subtle.

I didn't say it was a

good

attempt.

Fair enough, I'm not near confident enough to call you scum, but if one of the claims is fake it is probably yours.

Do you not see it as strange for someone to claim PR with merely 3 votes on them? Especially considering you apparently hadn't read enough to know about the other claims. Why would you claim without even knowing the context of the game of that point?

[RLotus]

I think I've already answered that.

I wasn't willing to let it get to a stage where I'm a compromise elim based on the actions of my predecessor, which is outside of my control. A late claim might not have been believed as this is a closed setup, therefore the best weapon in my arsenal as a Townie was transparency. I play mostly by instinct, and my instinct at that moment told me to claim as I did.

I'd much rather eat a NK than the elim so I'm not too worried.

Yeah you explained it kind of before. My point really is how can you scum read someone criticizing your claim when you claimed in such a sudden and out of place way?

Also, I disagree using your instinct when you haven't read the game yet, but what is done is done.

[RLotus]

I also thought (and still think) that claiming in the way I did would bring about some interesting reactions, and I believe with some certainty that scum are amongst the few that have tried to quietly discredit my claim.

Disagree totally. It is natural in my opinion to question a claim like that. Especially when there are two claims already, town needs to really start evaluating them. You didn't know about the other claims at the time, but yeah. Sure I suppose there can be scum questioning your claim, but personally I'm not reading much into that.

[RLotus]

I also thought (and still think) that claiming in the way I did would bring about some interesting reactions, and I believe with some certainty that scum are amongst the few that have tried to quietly discredit my claim.

Disagree totally. It is natural in my opinion to question a claim like that. Especially when there are two claims already, town needs to really start evaluating them. You didn't know about the other claims at the time, but yeah. Sure I suppose there can be scum questioning your claim, but personally I'm not reading much into that.

I am the only claimer that has promised hard info Tomorrow, and yet someone said I was the most likely to be lying?

Promising information does not absolve you from being a fake claim, no.

Do you not see/agree with the logic in that post?

[RLotus]

I didn't say I was absolved.

There is no logic behind saying I'm the

most

likely claimer to be lying.

Considering gretchen and klick linked themselves together if they are scum and the spot in which you claimed, I do think there is logic to you being the most likely liar.

[RLotus]

VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dgb

What gives you this confidence?

[RLotus]

why is it town?

Idk what they are, but I'm asking what gives you confidence the DGB is scum?

[RLotus]

VOTE: DGB

[RLotus]

Amelie is town, then.

No way all 4 PRs are real and I'm inclined to believe Solon is town so.

[RLotus]

it's dumb to find the maf in the PRs right now when they have to kill them for us anyway. why's Amelie town?

Because you, dann, and dgb jumped on the amelie wagon and it seems likely to me that one of you are scum.

[RLotus]

amelie is so town

Gretchen's votes and pushes always feel unnatural and oppurtunistic to me. I would so want to shoot there if she wasn't a PR, but tbh I probably read her playstyle as scummy.

Dannflor I really want to know why you had so much confidence in DGB being scum if you aren't tracker, that is very fishy to me.

I seriously doubt Dann, DGB, and Gretchen are all town, that Amelie wagon is so bad.

[RLotus]

Town
clidd
bugspray
solon

townlean
Amelie

null
geraintm
alicek
VFP

PR clusterfuck
DGB
gretchen
Dann

[RLotus]

amelie is so town

Gretchen's votes and pushes always feel unnatural and oppurtunistic to me. I would so want to shoot there if she wasn't a PR, but tbh I probably read her playstyle as scummy.

Dannflor I really want to know why you had so much confidence in DGB being scum if you aren't tracker, that is very fishy to me.

I seriously doubt Dann, DGB, and Gretchen are all town, that Amelie wagon is so bad.

I think you are too sure she is Town and I can't really see much from her posts to indicate that. Imo you are distancing from Town lynch

VOTE: Rlotus

I've given my reasoning as to why her wagon is bad and makes her likely town, not to mention I've been calling her town since yesterday. She's being raw with her reads, unapologetically pushing where she believes is scum, even if it is a push that will get her into trouble. As scum, I presume she would want to position herself more carefully, that is why I think she is town.

Also I'm green checked

[RLotus]

btw I was wrong to say all 4 of our roles couldn't be town

4 is like a standard number for the game of this size and they all seem to be (maybe?) fairly weak investigative roles

they are weird roles to all coexist but if this is all there is it's actually not unlikely

That would make 5 PRs in total. If there are 5 prs, I find it unlikely that we've already forced them all to claim, especially when 3 prs claimed in reaction to a wagon on them (solon, dgb, gretchen). Seems more likely that we've hit a scum that used a fake claim as a defense. Especially when I already read 3 towns outside of the claims, but that's just my prespective.

[RLotus]

klick/biped

[RLotus]

also like Rlotus it's really weird you're just lumping me in DGB into the same category when it's probably very unlikely we are ever scum buddies and yet you're doing nothing to decipher which one of us you think is more likely? Despite thinking scum must be among us?

idk it's weird

I actually like Alice's vote

VOTE: rlotus

The main thing I don't like about your claim is that you say DGB is 90% scum (presumably based on mechanics?) and then promptly backed off on her. I also can't figure what role would give you that confidence other than tracker. However, you being PR totally explains Entrapta's tilt on day 1.

DGB I like that they were very skeptical of the PR claims on day 1, but the fact that they simultaneously assumed that you had unluckily tracked them and that you must be scum pr is weird. It makes it seem like they figured you were tracker and knew you were town and as as defense claims psychologist visiting the kill, which is a convenient claim anyway.

at the same time he seems to be thinking things through and I can track some sort of thorough line of thought process through his posts

This is why I assumed you were tracker and I figure DGB assumed the same.

Btw, that defeatism can come from scum too, because if I were the scum that killed biped in the night and it seemed like I got tracked, I would also be very tilted.

Gretchen has just been generally scummy in my view, but her claim looks good and fits with the even night gunsmith.

Solon I am assuming is town, because I figure if they were scum they would be more self aware of how their claim was scummy. Instead, they have this headstrong conviction about it that I think comes from town.

[RLotus]

I'll elaborate why I think the amelie wagons is bad. First and foremost I think it is very likely there is scum inside of {Dann, DGB, gretchen}.

DGB it would totally make sense for them to vote their partner in that position, so DGB + Amelie isn't off the table.

For Dann and gretchen it makes no sense for them to move away from DGB onto their partner Amelie.

VFP is someone who is floating in the below town area and is currently on the wagon. AliceK isn't on the wagon, but made it seem like she would be ok with voting there and is also in the below town range, for me.

[RLotus]

I don't see a reason for scum Lotus to not just hammer me at E-1 but I also don't see why town Lotus would townread me. In my last game with Lotus, they barely had a read on me.

Like I said, it looks very likely that there are scum on your wagon, making it likely that you are just town.

[RLotus]

i'd much rather prefer amelie than clidd. lotus you're overthinking it and considering wagons too much when you should just vote for who you think is maf, there's no way to tell if all the prs on amelie were town and even if one of them was maf, they could be bussing or distancing by voting her. you're really just calling amelie town because you think 1 maf could have voted there? that means literally nothing lmao.

Yes, a scum being on the wagon makes it less likely the person being wagoned is scum. I even explained further my town read of amelie a bit earlier. But ok forego reasoning and vote where I feel like, gotchya.

[RLotus]

Town: Clidd
Null: Geraintm, RLotus, Dannflor, Solon, VFP, Bugspray
Scum: AliceK, DrippingGoofball, Gretchen

I still think Lotus should be eliminated. His wagon has no traction and posts are just too calculated.

My wagon has no traction because I am green checked hello???

[RLotus]

I called the frustration fake a while ago and I stand by that. The problem is that town can also be faking that to get towncred. I don't think they should ever die today because of their soft but I thing they might be scum.

If you think DGB and grethcen are both scum don't you think it is foolish to avoid killing in the PRs?

[RLotus]

Alice gives me similar sensations to Hypo

It's probably a slot that scum doesn't want to touch yet.

Yeah, I get a bit of a town feeling on her too. Mainly because I don't think she would be this dense about scumreading me as scum and be a little more self conscious on her positioning.

The problem is I am collecting too many towns outside of the PRs. Maybe there really are two scum in the PRs.

DGB/gretchen/geraint? Idk

[RLotus]

If I had not revealed it I'd be run up too, thanks to you.

Being run up the second time is 100% on you

[RLotus]

I hate it sososo much that defeatism like that gets town read on here, it is so gross. Such a free defense for scum to do

[RLotus]

Shut down and do nothing and get town read for it, so absurd

[RLotus]

A convenient check on the night target when DGB presumed they got tracked, when there are already 4 PRs

Hams up the woe is me act conventiently when there is pressure on them. If you notice in between the time their wagon collapsed and they got wagoned again, they were fairly quiet. It's as if it is a survival effort.

[RLotus]

and is voting the green check

[RLotus]

I feel like I'm the only one suspicious of the fact there are 5 prs am i going crazy or something

[RLotus]

I'm not sure if that is the hammer but quickly before I go to work, last words are that I think Dripping is probably town at this point. This is too suicidal. If that wasn't the hammer, we need to think a bit before doing anything. They are being very suicidal and I just think at this point, it comes from town.

If DrippingGoofball is scum and that was the hammer, I'm happy to call Dannflor scum for a hammer out of nowhere. Solon's vote is horrible but that was minimegabyte and she was a solid townread of mine. I don't like VFB but I could see them being scum and that's it. Back to the cop on me request please.

And this is just, ugh.

Which part is just ugh?

[RLotus]

Add this to a long list of games where I fucked up a PR.

I'm

Night 1

Psychologist

and I investigated the NK'd player.

Dannflor is scum PR, put two and two together, bye, see you all in the dead thread.

VOTE: DGB

Oh I forgot to mention when I was explaining why DGB is scum to solon. DGB simultaneously concludes that they've been tracked to the NK and that Dann is a scum PR. DGB is all oh so unlucky I investigated the NK and Dann tracked me, but if they think Dann is scum PR why do they think they've been tracked? And why do they think that Dann needs to be a PR at all if he is just scum?

Where is the town thought process here?

[RLotus]

Oh I forgot to mention when I was explaining why DGB is scum to solon.

VFP rather***

[RLotus]

A quick version from memory
Day 1
April calls Entrapta and Gretchen scum

Entrapta gets frustrated and reps out

People think this is scummy and Entrapta's replacement da dude almost dies

Da dude reps out to Dann, dann projects town

gretchen gets pushed and claims, still almost dies

klick(who repped out into biped) says gretchen's role makes sense with theirs

Hypo gets wagoned and dies

Day 2
Dann aggressively votes for DGB, it is later implied that dann has some sort of guilty on DGB, DGB claims psychologist

DGB's wagon builds and they start acting defeatist

Several people find this behavior towny, the votes shift onto amelie including three PR claims (Dann, DGB, gretchen)

The votes shift back to DGB (for their lack of cooperation I suppose?)

DGB wagon falls apart once again

[RLotus]

Also do you not see how essentially they are calling the possibility Dann-scum implied a fake tracker result on DGB-scum who immediately gave up?

Oh, I figured they meant if DGB is town not scum.

[RLotus]

@Lotus - Can you let me know why Alice over Ame? You are pretty much the only solid town read I have so want that insight.

I've only played with Amelie once before briefly and she got limmed day 1 for acting a similar way as this game. I'll try to explain my impression of her. She does this thing where she is hyper critical of people's posts and giving out scum reads in an abrasive sort of way. It often seems like she is rushing to conclusions with little information, which can appear scummy, but I get the impression she is just does not care how people read her and wants to put her opinions out there. I won't say it's a confident scumread, but this wagon does not feel correct to me at the very least.

Alice, idk. I got a little bit of a town vibe from when she read me scum, was promptly corrected that I have a claimed green check, yet she didn't waver in her scum read of me. It seems scum would want to position themself a bit more carefully than that. Maybe she faked that as scum, I can't say I have confidence one way or the other. But yes I prefer Alice to Amelie for today.

[RLotus]

Oh and when amelie was getting ran up I was one of not very many people defending her and she goes ahead and scum reads me for it lol, doesn't seem that smart for scum to do.

[RLotus]

I've seen glimpses of towniness from every non-PR claim other than geraintm and even him I don't read particularly scummy. I'm either very wrong or there are more than one scum in the PRs.

[RLotus]

Lotus, take a look at that Amélie's scumgame that it is on my iso.

You'll probably change your mind.

Hmm, so it seems she can mimic her town game at least to some degree as scum.

[RLotus]

@clidd - So you have DGB as solid town, and Dann who did some odd soft claim and then backed off it but still seems to be saying they have a role as more neutral? If you had to guess what is Dann role wise if he is scum?

Yep.

If I had to guess, in a scum!Dann scenario, I would say that he's some kind of scum tracker. He needed to know that DGB was on Biped.

Why does Dann even claim then? He knows DGB is PR, the NK flipped PR, and there are 2 other claims. He sticks his neck out by softing in an already tight claim space to what? Find out DGB's exact role? Get them killed? If he wants them killed then why does he back off so easily? Perhaps because he realized that DGB flipping town would make him look back and he'd rather go for Amelie first because he saw that getting traction anyway. Really, I don't understand why scum!Dann puts himself in this situation.

Btw if you think Dann is scum, amelie and Dann are probably not partners based on how Dann went from DGB to amelie when he had every right to stay on DGB.

[RLotus]

I do keep going back and forth, but Dann-scum backing off the tracked claim (unless he is legitimately afraid of a different PR) just doesnt make sense because it would have been a blunder. Its also worth noting that if Dann is a town tracker, he absolutely should claim because that does massive damage to how breakable this game is. Tracker is a very underrated tool in creating cleared players.

yes exactly

[RLotus]

It's worth mentioning that gretchen and Dann seem coordinated in their votes today. Dann and grethcen were both on DGB. Then, gretchen said she can't see DGB's defeatism coming from scum and moved to Amelie which started the momentum there. Both came back to DGB around the same time as well.

[RLotus]

It's worth mentioning that gretchen and Dann seem coordinated in their votes today. Dann and grethcen were both on DGB. Then, gretchen said she can't see DGB's defeatism coming from scum and moved to Amelie which started the momentum there. Both came back to DGB around the same time as well.

Funny part is I see DGB-Solon as most connected of the PR claims

You think Solon's clidd vote was the play to try and save DGB?

[RLotus]

I am town here but Lotus' defense is strange. I don't think I am very similar to that game that Lotus mentions because in that game, I came in and was confident in one read and stuck to it the entire time. That game moved much slower and I was caught up for the majority of the time I was there. I think in this game I am more all over the place because of replacements and clidd.

See what does scum gain by trying to discredit one of the only defenses of her lol

[RLotus]

TPR

[RLotus]

Unless Gretchen claimed some pr somewhere

..

[RLotus]

I'm sure any remaining PRs would have claimed by now if they wanted to

[RLotus]

i mean why can't the setup be 4 different town gated semi-investigative roles?

5

and the potential of a vig

[RLotus]

I dunno, amelie and flea both feel town. DGB still seems the most likely fake PR, but I've come to realize that I'm out of my depth with this PR stuff.

[RLotus]

If there is a vig, especially if they shot last night, they need to claim about 30 pages ago.

Maybe they are odd night vig or something idk

[RLotus]

If there is a vig, especially if they shot last night, they need to claim about 30 pages ago.

Maybe they are odd night vig or something idk

Im assuming you mean even night?

But yeah especially if they are even night anything where they had no N1 ability. Lets just say even night... you suddenly introduce a role that is a false positive for DGB (could kill N1, hasnt killed N1 - positive), Gretchen (has killed N2 - positive) and Gunsmith (has gun - positive)

I meant odd night since they wouldn't be able to shoot tonight, so they wouldn't want to claim.

[RLotus]

If there is a vig, especially if they shot last night, they need to claim about 30 pages ago.

Maybe they are odd night vig or something idk

Im assuming you mean even night?

But yeah especially if they are even night anything where they had no N1 ability. Lets just say even night... you suddenly introduce a role that is a false positive for DGB (could kill N1, hasnt killed N1 - positive), Gretchen (has killed N2 - positive) and Gunsmith (has gun - positive)

I meant odd night since they wouldn't be able to shoot tonight, so they wouldn't want to claim.

[RLotus]

VOTE: geraintm

[RLotus]

@gera: vote almost50 you silly silly

VOTE: almost 50

I think this is awful, a hugely terrible idea....

This is not the greaintm that I remember

[RLotus]

it's dumb to find the maf in the PRs right now when they have to kill them for us anyway. why's Amelie town?

this logic of

OMG Solon claimed TPR!!! we can't kill that, no way

is so so stupid

all it means is that we're killing a maf PR if we kill Almost50

do you understand how incriminating it is that he's posting in everything but this?

[RLotus]

If Solon can

clear

people that is way too strong of a pr to elim let alone for mafia to leave alive in the night, that is why Solon is probably the worst kill.

[RLotus]

VOTE: DGB

[RLotus]

Now Pooky's turn

[RLotus]

Now Pooky's turn

Also can you explain why you targeted Llama please

[RLotus]

Of course, you can roll it all and shove it up my arse if the 2 NKs did claim or made obvious crumbs, because it still strikes me as odd that scum managed to kill the PR that worked on N1 on that night, and then the one PR that starts to act on N2 on that night too. I wasn't really here to know whether DGB was pushed by scum or if she acted scummy herself (or maybe both) so I'll wait till I do have an idea about the specifics here.

they did claim

[RLotus]

it's pooky + clidd + someone off the entrapta wagon

VOTE: pooky

[RLotus]

my result last night is that LlamaFluff is a Vanilla Townie

Gee what role finds vanilla townies specifically. Hmmm do I need to wiki it for u guys too?

Your full role

[RLotus]

That's all?

[RLotus]

@Dann I don't really care for you going into detail on roles or claims other than is this 100% accurate scum caught or no?

I'd say very rarely is anything 100%, even cop guilties run into the possibility of millers.

However, I'd say this is greater than 90% and DGB's reaction does not decrease that at all.

This is why I doubt you are town

[RLotus]

Only mafia want to know the gate condition. If you r town and you ask for it you are just bad at the game lolol

You already said you are gated I wanted to see if you lied

[RLotus]

I don’t care what dannflor said

I do lol

[RLotus]

I mean the things he said are AI to your slot whether you like it or not

[RLotus]

it is so dishonest and disingenuous to ignore the fact that I was defending dgb as town yesterday and trying to elim someone else over her and cherry-pick a post from dannflor literally a thousand posts ago to claim that I am scum who wanted dgb dead or whatever.

You are beyond ridiculous at this point. I don’t know how a person could possibly play this badly so this push has to be coming from scum it’s that disgusting.

Then can you tell me why one would have 90% confidence that a vanialla cop check was scum? Also why the reluctance from Dann to claim his actual role?

And finally, your attempts to discredit me make you looks worse

[RLotus]

It looks like I struck a nerve, anyway

[RLotus]

Also can you explain to me why we should ignore your predecessors when trying to read you?

[RLotus]

Lolololollol im supposed to be a psychic and know what dannflor was thinking?

You are so bad faith trash pushing it’s hilarious

Can you theorize at least, I know it wasn't you, but why would one be behaving that way in that situation?

[RLotus]

It's not his read of DGB. He said, mechanically, DGB is

90%

to be scum. Surely, as a Neopolitan, you can see how this is ridiculous?

[RLotus]

See, this way you are trying to attack my push of you calling it "bad" "trash" etc., rather than explaining why you are town/why my push is bad looks really scummy

[RLotus]

Also, Pooky do you still think A50 is scum after his claim? And can you explain your Llama check

[RLotus]

the fact that you are focussing on Dannflor's quote from 1000 posts ago shows you are cherrypicking scumbag

Dann says his check is 90% scum. You reveal that you are Neapolitan. Explain to me why I am wrong in thinking this makes you look like scum.

[RLotus]

The fact that Dann was confident in the DGB scum originally isn't exactly mind blowing with the claims there already were.
90% PR scum most likely suspected because not VT.

But why did he presume DGB is scum rather than the other PRs? I guess it's not impossible but it feels really funny to me

[RLotus]

Do you know what I haven't done this game? Voted out a townside player

In post 1087, Not_Mafia wrote:
HypoSoc (7)- clidd, RLotus,

Dannflor

, Gretchen, Featherless Biped, bugspray, Solon Eliminated

Yes, I voted wrong twice, along with bugspray/Llama, and clidd. I do think there is probably scum between clidd and llama.

so if you're actually town I would've expected you to look at the fact that you came up empty twice and re-evaluate the game state.

I have you and clidd were both town reads yesterday, this is just incorrect

[RLotus]

It has nothing to do with the DGB elim, but rather Dann's confidence after his check of DGB, which doesn't seem to allign with his role. I've said this multiple times now what dont you understand

[RLotus]

Yes, I voted wrong twice, along with bugspray/Llama, and clidd. I do think there is probably scum between clidd and llama.

IVE LITERALLY CONFTOWNED LLAMA AS A VANILLA TOWNIE WTF R U TALKING ABOUT

1. Neopolitan gets a vanilla result from a Mafia goon yes?

2. Llama is probably town if you are town yes

[RLotus]

hmm I guess it's optimal to leave the PRs alone for now anyways, but I don't believe in that reaction whatsoever
UNVOTE:

[RLotus]

Ah the site wasn't loading for me the past few days, I'll catch up soon

[RLotus]

Well VFP just feels obvtown at this point. At least how he feels about the game is clicking with how I feel about the game, it doesn't feel town is in control at all.

Similar with clidd actually, his confusion is very much justified I feel.

Basically I'm sensing a lot of false confidence and that does not feel right from my view of the game.

I had a gut feeling at the start of the day of clidd being scum, but re-reading him I think I'm willing to take him as town. Plus, it was in part because I thought he had partner potential with Pooky.

[RLotus]

It is indeed strange that Llama is declaring himself conf town when he should know that is not the case.

Also strange that Llama omitted geraintm from the pool of people that A50 should check. Geraintm is in no way obvious town at this point.

Another thing is giving A50 a choice of check these people or we are killing you tomorrow is complete bullshit, especially if we miss today. We are going to evaluate his play as a whole rather than him making a wrong check makes him conf scum and decide from there.

[RLotus]

And why has no one pointed out that A50's claim just fits nicely with the other PRs? Gretchen and DGB had roles that sort of mirror each other and A50 and Biped have roles that mirror each other.

Sure I guess A50 could have just made a claim that looks nice. But he got pretty lucky calling me practically clear and then a role that indeed practically clears me is the convenient one to claim.

Let's compare Pooky and A50's claims.

Solon says I am practically clear or something to that effect. Goes on to claim gunsmith. Checks out.
Dann says DGB is 90% scum. Goes on to claim Neapolitan. Smells like bullshit.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if one of the PRs is scum my money is on Pooky.

[RLotus]

And you know what, if I am remembering correctly, people reading A50 scummy started for his lack of activity and it has snowballed into him pretty much being the accepted scum out of the PRs. I don't know about you guys, but reading someone for his lack of activity does not give me confidence.

Something definitely smells funny coming from that direction.

[RLotus]

Dann says DGB is 90% scum. Goes on to claim Neapolitan. Smells like bullshit.

Dann is not playing anymore.

I am playing.

I said DGB is town

you didn't listen to me and you elimmed DGB

now you are trying to blame me for you making a shitty vote and elimming DGB.

You're literally ridiculous

You are being so dense about this I am not going to argue with you about it anymore

[RLotus]

Also strange that Llama omitted geraintm from the pool of people that A50 should check. Geraintm is in no way obvious town at this point.

If we get a clear I want a very active content heavy clear. You cant even start to say that something like VFP-conf town isnt more valuable than Gera right now

Vote Flea

Back to this

Maybe. It depends on his reads. I wouldn't condemn him for checking geraintm if that's what he thinks.

[RLotus]

Idk how many times I have to say it it has nothing to do with you voting or not voting DGB, it's the confidence Dann had about DGB's slot based on his night result and the fact that his confidence doesn't line up with what the role is.

I understand that it is frustrating to be read for what your predecessor did, but nonetheless we must evaluate your slot as a whole.

[RLotus]

I just cannot place this 13 year seasoned veteran Pooky who throws a tantrum at the slighest nudge. This doesn't make sense to me as a genuine reaction. I think I'm just gonna park my vote here for now. My preferred kills atm are Pooky or Flea, anyway

VOTE: Pooky

[RLotus]

Like I get the irrationality does line up with the frustration which has made me hesitate, but these outbursts don't strike me as town whatsoever. Maybe I should look at some of his past games to see if this is typical.

[RLotus]

toxic

I really hope you are scum

[RLotus]

Tracker or watcher were my presumptions

[RLotus]

It would track DGB to the night kill specifically, which I presume would give Dann more confidence than merely knowing they are not VT

[RLotus]

Hummm I see the hole in my logic

[RLotus]

UNVOTE:
he did in fact know that dgb visited the night kill

[RLotus]

VOTE: Flea
That's e-1 I believe

[RLotus]

A50 and I would have to be partners no?

[RLotus]

Well if you think I'm scum it seems much more likely that A50 is also, so I don't see why your solve has one between us.

[RLotus]

And yes, it would make sense scum!A50 faking a report on partner, but I actually seeing some synergy between Amélie and Vfp.

Rereading April is what is making me reconsider his slot.

Yeah I do recall April having some interaction with amelie, makes sense. Although I find it more likely that you are wrong on flea or geraintm in that scenario than me being scum without A50. But I see your thought process.

[RLotus]

I don't think clidd and flea are partners

[RLotus]

Well if A50 turns out to be scum it is likely with flea because of his reluctance to vote flea. Yet he snapped geraintm like that, despite saying he was going to vote where Pooky votes regardless. That's if geraintm flips town.

[RLotus]

Clidd is pretty clearly town to me at this point.

So there is likely 2 in {Flea, Titus, VFP}. A50 still an outside possibility

I'm leaning towards VFP today I think. iirc April had been calling geraintm town early on and made those wagons on gretchen and entrapta (pooky). I think that wagon on entrapta where it very nearly went over should be telling.

We shouldn't be making a decision before we see what happened with A50 anyway.

We need to see what happened with A50 before we make a decision though.

[RLotus]

VC 1.08

Ydrasse (0)-

Da Dude (6)-

AliceK, geraintm, April Ludgate, Gretchen, Drippinggoofball, Ydrasse

(E-1)

Amélie (0)-

DrippingGoofball (1)-

HypoSoc

AliceK (1)-

Da Dude

geraintm (0)-

Gretchen (0)-

April Ludgate (0)-

RLotus (0)-

clidd (1)-

bugspray

bugspray (2)-

MiniMegabyte, clidd

HypoSoc (1)-

RLotus

MiniMegabyte (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Amélie

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-03-06 20:00:00)

- Mar 3rd 20:00 GMT

This is interesting. If Amelie (Titus) was scum with geraintm and April or Alice, she could have pushed it over. So maybe it is just VFP + Flea?

[RLotus]

I guess VFP only makes sense with flea sense he attempted to shift attention from flea to geraintm

Same goes for clidd actually

I think want Flea today on second thought

[RLotus]

Does it make sense for there to be a mafia doctor in a game without town kp? Is that typical?

[RLotus]

Hmm you're right actually. Maybe it is just Flea + Titus.

[RLotus]

Flea flipping town clears clidd and VFP in my mind. Clidd and VFP's effort to switch the wagon from flea to partner geraintm does not make sense to me, unless flea is also scum.

So that only leaves Titus + A50 as the possible team.

And if Flea flips scum, then we hit scum. So I think I like Flea today the most.

[RLotus]

Scum could have a JOAT with one roleblock or something

Or maybe the rber targeted gretchen night 1

[RLotus]

It's probably just Flea Titus

VOTE: Flea

[RLotus]

Oh yeah I forgot gretchen claimed she was novice

[RLotus]

If I were in Flea's shoes and if they are town, I'd be convinced it was A50 + me or Titus, so I'd be going after A50 today. Could be a difference in perspective, idk.

What I'm seeing from Flea rn appears to be a survival effort rather than a solving effort.

[RLotus]

I would have been extremely suspicious of A50 if they claimed anything but rbd

[RLotus]

VOTE: Titus

[RLotus]

I mean surely there isn't 5 town PRs and essentially one useful mafia PR, right? I'm leaning towards A50 as well

[RLotus]

Pooky said something about all claims being town, so I'm not sure ^

But yeah, it's what would make sense.

Well it was before we flipped the encryptor and goon. I would have expected at least 2 good mafia PRs at least. Not always having daytalk, but rather relying on an encryptor is basically a negative utility to mafia. Could be wrong about this, but I'm thinking A50 must be fake.

[RLotus]

Anyway I think it's crazy to think clidd made an effort to get the wagon off of town!flea onto his partner geraintm. Same with VFP. Clidd also heavily pushed his other partner Titus. VFP didn't hard push in that direction, but he could have easily stuck with trying to kill flea yesterday, but switched to Titus. Also, I believe I'm confirmed town at this point unless you think mafia has an encryptor, goon, and doctor.

Basically I think the townblock of VFP, clidd, and myself wins the game.

[RLotus]

I don't want to say too much, but the Novice Detective role makes some sense alongside my own role.

I'm not the best at setup spec but this is what I feel right now.

@Lotus

Wait, does modified gs make sense with novice detective?

Trying to understand if it makes sense for town!solon to think that.

They both have to do with finding someone who can kill, so I suppose in a sense they make sense to be together. I don't know if they are commonly in the same set up, but I can see where he is coming from with that.

[RLotus]

If I'm remembering correctly didn't Biped say the same thing about the detective claim making sense with his role? Biped being the even night gunsmith. So I guess there's merit to that.

[RLotus]

ggs everyone