Micro 1010: Divide and Conquer: Round 2 - Game Over!

[NorwegianboyEE]

Okay, if we are all going to start town reading Marci, can we talk about how weird it is that Norwee would push her here?

Why is it weird?
Even in the first game i pushed Meuh and everyone called me weird and i got eliminated for it.
Maybe i just think differently from everyone else?

Either way i think it’s more likely Marcistar is town too, and i don’t regret oushing there as it helps me gain reads on everyone else.
UNVOTE:

[NorwegianboyEE]

Meta and team composition points town. Not solving points to scum.
But that evens out to town.
(for those that might get confused by my progression here)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hopkirk also feels really townie now, i don’t think they would have had this progression on Marcistar if they were scum.
So my townreads now are Hopkirk, Marcistar and Guiltylion. With highest confidence on Hopkirk and GL.
Lukewarm still i have paranoia levels on.
Dunnstral i really want to just ignore as nothing they’ve said is allignment indicative to me.
Leaving a pool of slots i might consider voting next as Vanders/Lukewarm.
I’m actually really interested in Hopkirks Lukewarm read and i’m going to take a closer look at their ISO now to see if i find myself to agree.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Bingle
Not_Mafia
NorwegianboyEE

Dunnstral
Vanderscamp
GuiltyLion
Hopkirk
Lukewarm
marcistar

Actually thinking about this list i think a deepwolfy slot would be very likely in the 6 hood and Marcistar seeming generally very scared and not confident probably points to them not being alligned with Bingle and put on the 6p hood. N_M/Marci team also seems unlikely with how N_M has been easily voting Marci and claiming they’re playing to scum meta.

[Not_Mafia]

Yeah I’ve come round on Marci town, her tentativeness here reminded me of scum her, but I think it’s more because it’s her first non-newbie game

[Not_Mafia]

Wtf is WIM?

[Hopkirk]

^ 'want it more'/level of effort they'll put in as an alignment. i'm guessing you'll give it a 0/10 if you do a slang review here too

lukewarm seems really really different to all of his other games. what's up with that luke?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actually i had no idea what WIM really meant too. But i was too embarassed to ask.

[Lukewarm]

^ 'want it more'/level of effort they'll put in as an alignment. i'm guessing you'll give it a 0/10 if you do a slang review here too

lukewarm seems really really different to all of his other games. what's up with that luke?

In what ways do you believe I am playing differently?

As a self diagnosis, the only thing I can think of is the buddying with Marci, but think that that has been pretty well explained - she is the reason I am in this game lol.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's very typical in a "friends buddying each other" scenario that one of the players is scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And since tentatively we concluded Marci town it makes you look worse imo.

[Lukewarm]

If you say so, but we already talked about that, and he said I was playing differently.

I'm just unsure if he was still referring to that, or if he thought something else was off.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.4

Bingle (2) - Not_Mafia, Vanderscamp
Lukewarm (2) - Hopkirk, Dunnstral
Vanderscamp (1) - GuiltyLion
Hopkirk (1) - Bingle

Not voting (3) - marcistar, Lukewarm, NorwegianboyEE

(expired on 2021-05-24 08:40:00) remain until day end

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

[Hopkirk]

can you give us a readslist Luke?

[Lukewarm]

can you give us a readslist Luke?

Looking at the 6p neighborhood

TR - Marci / Guilty Lion
TL -
Null - Vander / Hopkirk
SL - Dunn
SR -

Still trying to get a better feel on Vander and Hop before I try any kind of push on Dunn.

[GuiltyLion]

Still trying to get a better feel on Vander and Hop before I try any kind of push on Dunn.

Why do you need to have a better read on other players before pushing your scumread? I find that generally anti-town, town should always be making pushes and generating pressure

And what actions have you been taking to get a better feel of them?

VOTE: Lukewarm

[GuiltyLion]

lukewarm seems really really different to all of his other games. what's up with that luke?

what games did you look at to get this impression?

[marcistar]

Okay, if we are all going to start town reading Marci, can we talk about how weird it is that Norwee would push her here?

Like he has the added benefit of having seen her play, so there is no "she uses emojis, so I can't trust her" - which is 100% something people have scumread her for lol

I don't mind it, I see the reasons.

Yeah I’ve come round on Marci town, her tentativeness here reminded me of scum her, but I think it’s more because it’s her first non-newbie game

I don't like not_mafia ^.^ hes following with the general vibe too much/easily.

As a self diagnosis, the only thing I can think of is the buddying with Marci, but think that that has been pretty well explained - she is the reason I am in this game lol.

TBH, you're so focused on it that its starting to seem like an

excuse.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Bingle how do you feel about this forming Lukewarm wagon.

[NorwegianboyEE]

N_M actually deciding to play is something i like about N_M.
I think generally speaking it's not scum indicative for him.

[marcistar]

N_M actually deciding to play is something i like about N_M.
I think generally speaking it's not scum indicative for him.

idk, is this playing? It just seems like hes going with the popular opinion

[NorwegianboyEE]

Bingle and Lukewarm both have this same unpleasant vibe where they seem to be not really attempting to solve but rather observe what's happening and construct other players actions as suspicious.
To go into more detail, Lukewarms: "Can we talk about how weird Norwee's Marcistar read is".
First of all, why is he just saying "can we talk about", like he's just inviting discussion for it and wants to test the waters rather than actually argue for why it's suspicious for me to push Marcistar? Secondly, why doesn't he try to solve the game rather than just being kinda in the background and discussing? He's not being as pro-active as i'd expect of a town player.
As for Bingle, he seems to mostly be focused on this thing Hopkirk said, which i already said in the hood PT i don't believe is allignment indicative and a waste of time to focus on. Yet now he's brought it further and apparently finds it really suspicious of Hopkirk for some reason. And also it slightly pinged me when Bingle tried to shade me in 306, which coincidentally. Also has to do with my Marcistar read, like they both co-ordinated to try to push me for this.

I could see an Bingle/Lukewarm team.

[Hopkirk]

game 1

Okay, I have just reached the end of Day 1, and also saw that there was no kill during the night (!!) I plan on making a couple posts, first my general notes that I made just as I read through. Leaving all of them there, even if they chaged throughout my read of the day, just to share my general progression of thoughts.

Then I am going to highlight something that I think was actually a scumslip

Then I will share my over all read list of every player as of, the end of Day 1.

I would like to preface this, that these are all my gut reactions to my first read through, and my opinions are likely to update some as I go back and look at some ISOs

Anyways, my read through notes:

Spoiler: post 0-100

• Post 12, Meuh asking for off site experience, this is a good look imo
  
• Post 22, Town points for Norwegian - scum players don't normally like to alienate other players this much, ditto for 27 and 31.
  
• The Not_Mafia entrance: I hate it. Like it is not a way of playing this game that I enjoy, but I also know from experience that he enters every game this way, so it is NAI
  
• Post 67, Norwee's absolute turn around on Not Mafia is a bit baffling to me haha. Not sure what it indicates, but it definitely stood out.
  
• General Comment: Not getting great vibes from Sama, but not for anything I can pin down
  
• Post 84, Marcistar also asking for prior mafia experience
  
• Post 85, love this post from Meuh. Lots of detail, also helping Tori not get defensive over a RVS. Really seems like she wants people on track to actually scum hunt. Scum would normally let something like Tori's uncertainty of why she was voted just sit. Very pro-town post
  
• Post 87 Bad vibes from Tori. List of 3 scum reads with no reasoning, and 0 town reads. Seems like a new!scum type of post
  
• Post 93, Pear. Making zero content posts is a pretty standard scum tell, but announcing that you are making a zero content post... not sure how to take that one lol
  
• Post 95 Tori did come back with an explanation from post 87, but I dont really care for their logic tbh

Spoiler: Posts 100-200

• Post 100 Meuh again with the town plays, Pressuring the quietest player to try and get content from them
  
• Post 102 Even after being called out for lack of posts, he is still offering very little content. "holding back for now as most of my reads are fairly weak" comes across to me like, "I am scum and unsure of what reads to make to seem most town". On Day 1, town is mostly playing blind, trying to voice a lot of thoughts trying to get responses, build content. Scum is trying to cherry pick Day 1 posts so that they can come across as town / distance from their partner, but not actually incriminate them / pocket other players. So town players are generally more open with thier reads on Day 1, while scum want to make sure they are making the right reads before they post.
  
• Post 103 + 104, Meuh read my mind
  
• Post 105 I am really not liking Tori's reasonings here. They don't like meuh's early town reads because there wasn't a good backing for them, but on the flip side they put out their 3 scum reads without good backing.
  
• Post 119, Bad vibes, cant articulate why, but I feel them
  
• Post 130, Norweigianboy reads my mind on Tori
  
• Post 146 Meuh trying their damnedest to keep the thread alive and full of content. They are a pretty strong town read for me atm
  
• General Comment: No good vibes coming from Sama
  
• Post 174, Catboi repeatedly bringing up Ink's first post, feels very disengenuous to me. His first post of the game, means we were in the RVS stage at that point, and he did not even vote on it. His first vote was on Catboi, and then catboi tried to push back based on Ink's first post of the game. Seems defensive
  
• Post 187, Tori is once again posting only a read list with no logic. Not super helpful for town
  
• Post 189, getting a real bad feeling from the way Catboi has been interacting with the thread so far, he just does not feel like he wants to help in the scum hunting.

Spoiler: Post 200 to end of Day 1

• General Comment: Just hit post
  224 231 234
  259, and that is a lot of people being prodded day 1
  
• Post 239 Catboi with some reads, definitely helping my read on him, I am coming around to the idea of Catboi possibly being town now
  
• Post 255, Hm. Early Day 1 "Not Mafia being a troll is better then any thing else I have to go on" is a reasonable RVS, but 250+ posts in, it seems a bit weak of an argument. Like you should have something to go on, which is better then "but not mafia is a troll," which is better then another blind vote. Negative town points for Meuh.
  
• Post 266 This is why Meuh lost town points for the NM vote, but catboi didn't. he is at least making the case that NM might legitimately be scum this game.
  
• General Comment: Norwee has put a lot of work into defending NM, like a lot. Which is strange considering their opening. If NM ever flips red, I will become suspicious of Norwegianboy
  
• Post 289 Catboi makes a good point. There were only 2 votes on NM, that makes norwee's strong defense even more odd
  
• Post 305 Nice post by Pear. Gaining some town points imo
  
• General Comment: Overall vibe from Norwee has been steadily dropping.
  
• General Comment: General vibe from Catboi also dropping, but they cannot be partners. Currently have them as an either/or scum read
  
• Post 376, Pear has lost their town points. Not liking the mental gymnastics he jumped through in this post to shade Norwee
  
• Post 381, Meuh losing more town points. "I think he is scum, because he is scum reading me" is a really weak stance to take, especially given the fact that she clearly has some mafia experience
  
• Post 401, Incredibly, Meuh is losing even more town points. They started Day 1 building incredible amounts of town cred imo, but by this point, they really are giving off the vibe "almost any vote out is fine by me"
  
• Post 419 Major alarm bells going off! This one deserves its own post to talk about.

Here is my final read list as of the end of Day 1. Then I will work my way through Day 2.

(My strong town read tier is empty)

Meuh

- Meuh was one tier up as of like 80% of the way through Day 1, like almost every post from the beginning of the day just screamed town at me, but they did fall slightly at the end of the day because they came across like they were okay with almost every elim option presented

Not Mafia

- They were yellow, with a note :"if Norwee flips red/green move Not_mafia one tier in that direction" so now they are hanging out here

Marcistar

- I have had mixed reactions to them throughout day 1. They have defenitly been green at various points for me, but they have kind of bounced back and forth between green and yellow..

Samawoodo

- I have gotten mostly negative reactions to their posts, but mainly in a "gut feeling" kind of way, but I did not really spot anything I could pin point as to why I felt that way
(These are the two who I think have the highest potential to move once I do ISOs on them. This is mainly a "need to give them a second look tier atm)

Norwegianboy

- this is where he was for me at the end of the day. I probably would have been on his wagon tbh

Catboi

- Over all not a good vibe from this guy. For the first half of the day, seemed too hesitant to voice their opinion. And when they finally did voice their opinion, they landed on Not_Mafia which seems like the easy way out for a scum imo.

Tori/T3

- to be fair to T3, they mainly get this ranking from the Tori post, but T3 did not really give me anything to pull them back up from where Tori left him

Pearofclubs

- they were a slight scum lean (same as norwegianboy and catboi) even before I read the posts I pointed out, but once I noticed it, it really screamed to me "he is trying to manipulate me" which says scum to me, so he dropped down here.

(I put pearofclubs at the bottom before he responded, and this is supposed to be "where I stood at the end of day 1 anyways. I am going to mull over his response as I read through Day 2).

Looking at it, I am actually surprised how many names I have as red/orange. I feel like I generally end up going the other way with too many town reads. This leaves me with much to think about moving forward.

game 2

I have never replaced into a game before, so not sure the best way to post as I read through. I decided on making periodic posts as I read through the game, with my reads at that point in the game. These reads will likely change as I get closer to being caught up, and even then I won't have done any ISOs (did not realize how much work replacing in was )

Here is my reads from Start of Game, to Day 1 council being formed (page 18). I had a note pad open as I scrolled through, and here are my notes next to each players names

T-Bone
Post 146 - I do not like this from a strategic standpoint. This feels like a bad strategy for town, but a good strategy for Mafia. But I don't think Mafia would blatantly say that lol. Null (maybe slight town) read
Generally slightly mixed feelings for them moving forward. They seem to be harping on Mozamis for a reason I don't agree with (like he seemed mad that they asked for his reads?), but that could stand out to me because this is my slot haha. Then they pressure Enchant pretty hard into giving out his reads, which has a town feel to it.
Currently at very slight town Lean

Almost50
Post 39 - this feels like a post that is purposefully trying to throw suspicion on someone who is clearly memeing mafia. Scum lean
Post 39 - This whole post felt very forced. The heeing and hawing, building up to a read list - all in the same post. Do not like.
Currently Scum Lean

Enchant
Post 39 Strong effort to come up with a winning strategy, and to convince other people to follow it. Town Lean
Post 324 Page 13, no reads...
Post 326 And here they are lol
I do not like that he was so hesitant to give out his reads, but he gives a decent reason behind it (Post412), and over all seems to be activly trying to keep town working towards a winning strategy
Currently Town Lean

Yessiree
The only note I jotted down for him is "bad vibes" lol
I will have to look at him closer moving forward / when I start doing ISOs

Artemiana
I did not write down the specific post, but: good vibes combating, imo, faulty logic.
Followed by: less good vibes
And finally: Good vibes are back.
Town lean

Nono
I got all the way to the council forming, without taking a single note on them. That is not a good look tbh
Scum lean

Mozamis
I was generally ignoring any analysis on my own slot, because I know I am town, but Post 138 has them confidently clearing two players that I have listed as scum leans currently

Battle Mage
After reading the set up, I thought the town should be careful with their heal votes, then he not only advocates for people to start putting votes out there, but he also scum reads people for being hesitant. I made a note of this, and then it kept coming up. Scum lean
Post 69 starts a lot of comments about a supposed scumslip, that does not look like a scum slip to me at all. When I am writing posts to other players, trying to help them see something from a new PoV , I always approach it as if they are town otherwise, I would start a lot of posts with "if you are town, then___". I have felt like that part can be assumed lol. They really doubled down on this too, bringing it up multiple times. Scum lean
I got to this point with a scum lean on them, but every single player (including my slot) town read them. I will have to give them a second look as I go forward and when I ISO them

Raya
Posts 114 and 119, Actively trying to optimize the council mechanic. town lean
Lots of good vibes reading through, but she has an exchange with Enchant that irked me a bit. Specifically the back and forth over Enchants read on Yessiree starting with Enchant post 326.
Mostly good vibes, but one exchange I did not like, still leaves them with a small town lean

I have more notes on interactions, but this is what made it to my reads notes.

Jumping back in, wish me luck!

I planned on working through to the end of Day 2, but I just gotta take a break. Here are my notes on the End of Day 1. I will post my Day 2 analysis once I manage to reach the end of the day.

We voted out scum day 1! That definitely makes a town win easier.

So looking back over Almost50's ISO:

• He started his heal vote as: [Moz, T-Bone, Almost 50]
  
• When he was told that he should not vote for himself, and changed it to [Moz, T-Bone, Yessiree] and held that stance for the entire rest of the day.
  
• When the council was almost settled, he pushed to get either Battle Mage or Atremiana off of the council, and replaced with one of his three.
  
• I think it is safe to assume he wanted a scum on the Council, so I feel like we should all be suspicious of Moz (me lol), Tbone, Yessiree, and this move hard skews both Artemiana and Battle mage as town imo

Almost50's Wagon

• Raya was the first person to vote Almost50, and is wishy washy on the vote, even says that Almost50 isnt her perfered vote. This vote is early enough that she would not have a reason to think it would pass especially with her not making a good case against him
  
• Nono, same as Raya. Early on the wagon, and very noncommittal to the read.
  
• Artemiana I almost want to give her full credit for getting Almost50 voted out, she build the case and convinced others to vote against him. Strong Town lean for that
  
• BattleMage put almost 50 at e-1 when there was still time to work towards moving the vote to Nono or Yessiree. A vote on either one of them would have tied them with Almost 50, meaning he could have at least tried to save Almost50 with very little effort. Strong town lean for that
  
• Enchant's quick hammer on Almost50, pretty much clears him

Battlemage, Artemiana, Enchant

all pretty much cleared at this point. Almost50 tried to pull both Battlemage and Artemiana off of the council, and then Artemiana and Battlemage were instrumental in getting him voted off. Enchant with the quick hammer

Yessiree, TBone

pretty suspicious are my primary suspects. I am most leaning towards Yessiree as Almost50's partner at this point. because they were the sub in when he had to remove himself, ie his heal votes was [pocket attempt on Moz, pocket attempt on Tbone, Scum] the whole time, it just started as himself, and then he swapped in his partner. It could be TBone, but he would have had to have been pretty ballsy to put both scum in his suggestion originally. So imo, Yessiree>TBone

Looking back over Tbone + Yessiree votes

T-bone never suggested a single council line up that did not include himself, which is not a good look.

Yessiree never voted for any combination at all until after it was established that everyone was going to choose one person other then themselves.

Neither one was on the Almost50 wagon either

Neither one voted for Almost50 to be on the council, but also, neither one voted for a full set up that did not include themselves, and also neither one voted for almost50, the scum reads on this are kind of a tie imo

So final reads at the end of Day 1:

• Battle Mage, Artemiana, Enchant
  
  
  Raya
  Nono
  
  
  Tbone
  Yessiree

i haven't fully read any of the games. just skimmed some stuff and things jumped out as noticeably unusual. given 2/3 of Luke's games have been later game sub-ins i did note that he didn't express any difference between joining those and starting off in this game. obviously there's going to be a pronounced difference there, but i think it would have been reasonable to mention that just now when i asked about whether his play was difference. something along the lines of 'yeah, it's a difference experience and x/y/z about the early game' as opposed to no comments.

These two were obviously different in that it was a sub in a bit later on, but the level of detail/analysis going on here makes this game feel a lot more surface level and there's a very marked difference. i'm trying to decipher whether the difference is in terms of scale of stuff he can look at or approach, because i don't think i can isolate anywhere in this game with a similar level of effort/engagement

game 3 i'll put in a separate post because i don't trust myself to format it right otherwise

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can you please spoiler your long posts.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'd vote Lukewarm but N_M might immediately hammer.