FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Alter Ego]

Greetings, Gentlebeings.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I've one townread already. Let's see if I can find another on page 2.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I looked back over the start of the last FGO game, and it looked like the day started with people fighting for the master spot, so I thought that was where we would be starting too - but apparently I was wrong lol

The lack of initiative is somewhat surprising, though I suppose without town believing their own role is somehow broken I suppose people are less inclined to be aggressive.

The prophecy was true - I've now two townreads. At this rate I should have the game solved by page 7.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I want to be the master. My strength is in the early game and I don't particularly like my noble phantasm.

But one of the upsides to being the master is being able to use your noble phantasm right away. Wouldn't it make sense to let someone who wants to use theirs have it, then?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think choosing a townread who'd work well as conftown is preferable to selecting anyone for mechanical reasons. The influence of an IC and the double elimination outweighs any mechanical consideration based on people's roles.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I want to be the master. My strength is in the early game and I don't particularly like my noble phantasm.

But one of the upsides to being the master is being able to use your noble phantasm right away. Wouldn't it make sense to let someone who wants to use theirs have it, then?

Using mine right away is better than using it later.

I want to use mine to reinforce my reads and improve thread cohesion. It's much better used in the early game than late.

I see. I'm not sure why exactly you don't like it, then. Do you believe you'd be a good leader?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't think it's that bad if we hit mafia tbh

I don't think it's the end of the world either way but would strongly prefer having town. Scum being down a member to start the game isn't bad but they would likely take care to disguise all their interactions if they expected to flip early, so I don't see that angle as particularly worthy. Really I'd just like to have an Assassin v2.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm falling behind on getting townreads. Unfortunate.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think Saber's sales pitch is decent so far, but I intend to wait until everyone has checked in and see what the options are before I lay down a vote.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Alter Ego - what are your thoughts on being the one with a master - you look like you are building up the most town reads so far

I've no particular interest in being a leader - I don't feel as though I work well as conftown. I read people better off how they interact with me when I'm not cleared, being confirmed messes that all up. I'm also subject to bouts of paranoia and indecisiveness when I have to take the lead. I much prefer to play a supporting role in games. I'm certainly no Assassin v1.

I believe I have a 3rd townread.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Scratch that, I've four townreads. Catching up with the page count.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I honestly find it questionable that someone who gained a guaranteed cop shot from their NP would out it openly without possible consideration of it being blocked as a result.

[Servant Alter Ego]

In that sense Saber's vagueness and caginess about their role seems more town.

[Servant Alter Ego]

My two TR's so far are Saber and Lancer. Berserker seems okay, but I may be reading in too much there.

After that, I can't really tell. Alter ego seems surface thoughtful. Bu they're taking pains to avoid being misunderstood.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

[Servant Alter Ego]

My two TR's so far are Saber and Lancer. Berserker seems okay, but I may be reading in too much there.

After that, I can't really tell. Alter ego seems surface thoughtful. Bu they're taking pains to avoid being misunderstood.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

imo, that looks like beast is reaching for a reason to keep you out of their town reads

That seems like a rather uncharitable interpretation of Beast's words.

[Servant Alter Ego]

You're being clear and calculated. You're not saying who your town reads are nor are you justifying them. You're explaining your mindset to avoid being misconstrued.
I don't think every post you make is designed to help town and that wiggles me. Scum have an incentive to be town read and the earlier the better.
I'm null on you.

Does not outing my townreads make me more likely to be townread? I would think scum would have more interest in acting in a manner that looks impressive and making allies by pocketing people. I don't particularly

care

about looking town right now, my preference is mostly to hang back and observe in the early game, with the occasional interjection or question. Reads and reasoning will come when the time is right and not before that. (I also want to see if other people end up thinking similarly to me, and that's easier if I don't explain things right away)

[Servant Alter Ego]

Is there some reason you're pretending to be Fferylit AE? Just like, trying out a new style because it's an anon game or? It's worth trying to read you early I think.

I'm not pretending, she reviewed the game so obviously can't be a player in it. I simply made the same opening post as a homage.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Here's a question for you, Beast: Why did you feel the need to ask me that?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Here's a question for you, Beast: Why did you feel the need to ask me that?

Because I'm trying to understand your mindset and approach. It sounds like you don't plan to share your opinions on players until later.

Correct. But why not ask me directly about what I'm doing, rather than some roundabout question about me possibly imitating another player?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I still don't understand. I suppose this discussion isn't going to lead anywhere fruitful.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I've already answered you, you've not responded, and I just asked you a question that you replied to by quoting an old post you made that doesn't really answer what I asked. Nothing you have said to me makes much sense.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Not any particularly strong ones, but Assassin is pinging for his approach, as mentioned earlier. Still taking a bit of a "wait and see" approach. I tend to prefer to play via POE, though.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Well, 125 is an answer as to what my mindset is in approaching things. I would agree that the townreads on me are somewhat surprising given I wasn't particularly trying to act protown. Do you find any of the reads on me to be suspect?

[Servant Alter Ego]

After sleeping on it, I'm not sure that I particularly care if Assassin's claim is a nefarious scum ploy - I think the risk/reward is in our favor regardless and I wouldn't mind voting there because it sorts them early.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Not a big fan of Rider's iso atm lol.

You have anything to say other then just your vote?

Foreigner isn't impressive so far either, although it's still early.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Anyone who has not done so already should go read Cabds comments from the first game on the preliminary master vote. The short version is decide on a charismatic player to receive it, and let them either lead town or get taken out entirely if scum.

In that case, I’m all for being selected

With regard to Lancer, I mostly liked this sequence on the first page. The response didn't feel like one scum would make, I would've expected somethng more self-conscious. Posting since then has been largely mechanical so I wouldn't say it's the strongest read, but as far as early vibes go they've been all right.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Lancer 3
Berserker 1
Alter 1

Lancer is the most active person and should be selected

You would choose someone for the master vote solely on the basis of activity?

[Servant Alter Ego]

yea sure on second page

do you have a point?

yea its in 170

What about the reads she opened the game with?

[Servant Alter Ego]

a big red flag for me is that neither of them reacted to the scum-read at all.

I tend to ignore people announcing scumreads on me with no justification. I'm not sure this is a particularly reliable way of reading people.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm not sure I follow?

[Servant Alter Ego]

That is certainly an arrangement of names. Pray tell, why does Rider's 2 posts put them in your 3rd tier?

[Servant Alter Ego]

That is certainly an arrangement of names. Pray tell, why does Rider's 2 posts put them in your 3rd tier?

3rd tier=Null

I see. So you have 5 scumreads and 2 townreads so far, is that correct? That's a very

surprising

distribution. Why am I so scummy to you? Why are Assassin and Berserker scum, too?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Alter Ego thinks too much and their reads have too much uncertainity.

What do you mean I "think too much"? Where do you see me as having "uncertainty"?

a big red flag for me is that neither of them reacted to the scum-read at all.

I tend to ignore people announcing scumreads on me with no justification. I'm not sure this is a particularly reliable way of reading people.

That is certainly an arrangement of names. Pray tell, why does Rider's 2 posts put them in your 3rd tier?

3rd tier=Null

I see. So you have 5 scumreads and 2 townreads so far, is that correct? That's a very

surprising

distribution. Why am I so scummy to you? Why are Assassin and Berserker scum, too?

I did

not

give a justification.

Oh, I see, haha. Very clever of you. I didn't want to make myself the focal point of discussion but honestly I'm absolutely dumbfounded by your entire list given that you had me and most of my townreads as scum, and I saw very little sense in any of it. I engaged you to try to get you to explain your reads given you've contributed nothing else. I'm not liking the explanations you're giving.

Assassin is scum trying to become master by any means possible.

Why's assassin scum for trying to become master, but you're okay with voting Saber, who has taken a similar approach?

That is the first post caster has made that I agree with. Town master is the first priority, but we aren’t up a creek without a paddle if it hits scum.

This post is terrible.

Why's it "terrible"? What's so scummy about that, considering several people expressed the same sentiment?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Does anyone have serious objections to Saber getting the boost.

I'd like to move on.

I don't see a need to rush the phase, especially when Ruler and Shielder have yet to post. I want everyone to weigh in.

I actually think my preference is more toward Berserker or Assassin, though that decision is partly motivated by personality, as I think they'd be easier to work with than Saber. (Although I do think Assassin became much townier when he started talking about his reads and not just his role mechanics)

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm not sold on the read itself but I think town is more likely to come up with that read than scum.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Does anyone have serious objections to Saber getting the boost.

I'd like to move on.

I don't see a need to rush the phase, especially when Ruler and Shielder have yet to post. I want everyone to weigh in.

I actually think my preference is more toward Berserker or Assassin, though that decision is partly motivated by personality, as I think they'd be easier to work with than Saber. (Although I do think Assassin became much townier when he started talking about his reads and not just his role mechanics)

I can't really imagine what you see in Assassin's personality that makes them preferable to saber. Assassin's entrance, if town, was impulsive.

Impulsive maybe, but he's being more open with his reads, and the way he's engaged with people has been positive. Saber feels closed off. I don't know how to explain my feelings on Saber without going against the spirit of the game and being...kind of rude.

To this end, while

Servant Archer

may have declared they're not the best choice for mastership, they are the first servant who I feel lacks corruption. In the rvs, it is difficult to reliably differentiate between the pure and the corrupt, however,

Servant Archer

seems to genuinely be integrating into our group without deliberately trying;

Servant Archer

's early stances appear pure of heart.

I'm not sure why you'd think such a declaration to be town-indicative at all. That's a fairly trivial post.

This should also serve as answer to your 265; if my guess at Servant Saber's identity is correct, they are corrupt (thus their placement), but if my guess at Servant Saber's identity is wrong, then there's little to tell if they are corrupt or pure. They may still be corrupt off of their later posting even if I am wrong, but I admit my guess at their identity may be biasing me towards this conclusion.

This is interesting. Can you explain further without referencing their identity explicitly? What tendencies are they showing?

[Servant Alter Ego]

ngl, every time Archer posts I want to tease them relentlessly for their shoe-string rationales.
Jokes on me if they're scum tho.

What is this supposed to mean?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Okay, that clarifies things. That is an odd assumption to make about the mechanics but I don't think it's particularly AI. Seems mostly like he's trying to handwave things but I can see town wanting to handwave it so they don't have to discuss mechanics as part of the choice. I don't think rationale for the vote though is overall bad, have Berserker as more town than the other two in my notes.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Caster's just town. Probably wrong, but town.


Shielder's absence from the thread has officially become concerning.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Ruler is obvious town. Although I haven't absorbed all the links, there have been parts of their posts that have exactly mirrored my thoughts to a tee. Reading Saber's recent posts still make me think they are town, so I am quite concerned by Ruler's assessment of Saber. I would like to sort that out somehow.

Where did you feel your thoughts were being mirrored? A lot of her reasoning felt rather questionable to me.

@Alter Ego, Why do you feel I would be hard to work with?

You seem like someone whose styledoes not work well with mine and whose thinking is frequently at odds with how I operate. Nothing against you as a person, it's just...not what I'd prefer in a master.

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Berserker

I'm feeling good about this right now, I might try to cobble together a bit of a case for berserker from my notes later if I feel it's necessary.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

I'm actually only town reading Saber, Me, and lancer right now. I'm pretty conservative and skeptical. But I don't have any serious scum reads unfortunately. I don't see any red flags.

This is incongruous to me. The first post is implying you believe attempts to derail the vote on Saber are a scum-led plot, but in the second post you claim to not have serious scum reads. Surely if you believed the "derailing" of saber's wagon was being done by scum, you could name names?

Alter is another player that is very clearly not the type to listen to others. They're off solvin' and that's fine if detrimental and unlikely to be very accurate.

This is not really how I'd describe my style at all - I prefer collaborating with my strong town reads, it helps to clarify my thoughts and see the flaws in my own thinking. I definitely prefer to be more of a supporting player.

You seem to be taking a lot of snarky potshots at people.

[Servant Alter Ego]

You prefer collaborating with people you get along with. Those were your own words.

Now you're just trying to be an asshole by twisting my words. I'm not sure what the point of it is supposed to be.

[Servant Alter Ego]

If I think Saber is town, but I'm not so sure about others how exactly is that incongruous? did you think that through?
Anybody less town than saber is suspect to me. Just because I can't say that one and that one is scum doesn't mean I can't read the traffic and think "yeah, I don't think the scum team wants this guy to get he grail"

This feels like you're only willing to cast vague aspersions while not being willing to actually commit to a read. You want to direct traffic onto Saber by framing resistance to it as scummy but don't actually want to directly accuse anyone. It should be trivial to look at people and at least try to deduce whether you think their motives are genuine or not, but you're not even making a minimum of attempting to do that.

You prefer collaborating with people you get along with. Those were your own words.

Now you're just trying to be an asshole by twisting my words. I'm not sure what the point of it is supposed to be.

Please don't call other people assholes.

I'll stop calling you an asshole when you stop acting like one. As it is most of your posts just exist to belittle other people rather than produce useful lines of conversation. You're lacking in substance and a lot of your posts look like you're talking just for the sake of talking. I no longer feel that you're approaching the game from a solving mindset.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think you're forward and clear and genuine. I think you're relatively easier to read and I don't see an agenda.
You've twice pointed to people that voted you and said "they could be scum" when you need their support to benefit the town.
It's earnest and I think you've been forthright with every player you spoken with.

Does this post (re:Saber) actually say anything meaningful, or is it just a vague assemblage of buzzwords meant to take the shape of analysis? The one truly meaningful point is that saber has expressed suspicion of some of the votes on their wagon, but is that really enough to call someone town?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I never said that town would not care about mech. I said that mech is the easy path for scum.
So, i am not scum reading Saber/Assassin because they are interested in mech, but I am town reading berserker because he is not.

Why is the lack of mech-interest AI for you?

It seems to me that it's easier for a scum to completely ignore the mechanical angle of their NP to get to be Master rather than actually faking enthusiasm in terms of their NP.

One of the first things I considered in this game was whether my NP is strong enough for me to charisma my way into getting Master'd. I read my NP and thought about it and it was fairly easy for me to make the decision that it's not strong enough for me to try to become Master'd.

You're saying it's a townie perspective to not care about the mech of your NP, why?

I don't think it would be particularly difficult for scum to make a claim about the strength of their NP, it's not like they would need to be held accountable to it after that fact. I'm not sure why you think scum would ignore that angle given that making an enticing fakeclaim is easier than emulating a town mindset. In fact that was why I was initially wary of assassin, since he had opened with such a strong promise of what he could offer. I've since calmed on him and feel this is mostly because he was operating with a different mindset than I was.

Someone else had made this point earlier about scum promising great mechanical benefits they don't have to deliver on. I forgot who.

[Servant Alter Ego]

alter what is your take on avenger?

I've not been impressed with his posting so far.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think a miller claim itself is NAI, but I find this puzzling:

And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.

in fact late miller claims are often fake. Scum likes to wait and claim miller once they are sure that no one less does it.

I said in my first post.
I didn't see the game started until I posted and neither did I read anything at that point.
Try again.

It's rather hard for me to believe someone didn't realize the game started for almost 16 hours. I recognize that not everyone is as obsessive an addict to this website as I am, but am I really to believe Avenger was simply not paying attention at all and it took him that long to come to the game thread? We all received notice of the game starting, it's not like he wouldn't have reason to check his messages.

The excuse strains credulity.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm just going to call Archer town.

Out of curiosity, why?

[Servant Alter Ego]

As for my town reads all townreading you, at least in two cases they cite post #85 (berserker/ruler) and I disagree completely with their assessment. It's completely possible they've augmented the read somewhere but I don't see evidence for it. Ego's read of you was more measured and I could understand it, unsure where he stands on you now.

I could understand the reasons you expressed doubt of Lancer given a significant chunk of their posting was mechanical in nature, but I don't think it's particularly fair to fault them for that given that was simply the subject of discussion at the time. Since the last time we discussed the read I've felt their posting has improved quite a fair bit - 240 felt pure, paranoia about knowing how the scum upgrade works isn't an angle I'd expect scum to take. I liked the indignance of 249 even if I disagreed with the take (because why would someone seeking the master aim to discredit a popular townread?), but that's a light tonal read. The skepticism/wariness of beast in 252 feels town, he's wary of being put into a pocket where I think scum!Lancer probably wouldn't have given the comment a seecond thought, certainly not that long after it had been posted. 262 was good because I had noticed the same thing when reading Ruler's wall, they just said it before I was able to say anything. It also means means they were paying attention and actually analyzing the words, rather than simply glazing them over and going "yep, town".

[Servant Alter Ego]

Not really sure why Foreigner seems to have been getting scumreads. Seems to be a case of an unorthodox player who has strong opinions that go against the grain getting scumread just for the crime of being different. Their style is a bit trollish but their recet string of spam-posting feels townspewy.

[Servant Alter Ego]

@foreigner I’m still unclear on whether you think avenger’s claim is scummy or not

suspicious

I think also berserker’s post might be more like, what specifically made you ask about resistance or lack thereof to saber? Or what prompted you to make that post?

Maybe someone wish to claim that they actually oppose saber election. Otherwise i want people to acknowledge why i don't want this to happen.

I'm not sure why you're not seeing the Berserker votes as a form of opposition to Saber? Even if indirectly, people are expressing the opinion that they'd find someone else preferable as master. Why do you believe this supposed lack of resistance is suspect?

[Servant Alter Ego]

1. I'm pointing out that the traffic or meta data is such that there is no scum resistance to Berserkers wagon. Me being wishy washy about my reads has already been admited by myself. I'm not confident in playrs I have, nor will I be forced to make a decision on who I think is scum before I feel I've seen something that is pretty scummy.
2. Gunna ask again. Please refrain from calling people assholes. I have not insulted you. If you have a problem with your own word choice then choose your words more carefully.

So I'm supposed to take self-admittance of wishy-washyness as town? No, I just think you want to vaguely shade people, but can't back it up with any substance. It's exceedingly superficial. You keep going on about how you have no strong reads, but are hardly taking any steps to rectify that. Just making snide comments instead.

You've directed meaningless snark at me as well as Archer. You're playing like a prick and then act wounded and offended because I dared to call you on what you're doing.

Also, alter given you've refused largely to give reads yourself and you've done similarly to ruler, I don't think you're really arguing in good faith. You ask for others what you aren't willing to give yourself.

I've given plenty of reads if you bothered to actually read my posts and take inference from what I was saying. I was only playing closed off to start the game. The fact that you're accusing me of such makes me feel like you aren't attempting to read me in good faith or are even paying attention to my posts.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Strong Townreads: {Assassin, Berserker, Caster, Lancer}
Weaker Townreads: {Archer, Saber, Foreigner}

Most of these should have been obvious to anyone actually paying attention.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Do you still feel uneasy about Ruler?

Needs more data. She's squarely outside my townreads, and a lot of her logic felt very off (townreading me for a fairly NAI post being the foremost example in my mind), but I wouldn't confidently bet on a scumflip or anything, need her to clarify her reasoning in order to get a better read.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm putting foreigner into the clumsy with words camp. Not as an insult but because I'm either really bad at interpreting what he means or he's not saying what he means with his selection of subjects in a grammatical sense.

Oh look, another post where Beast avoids saying anything actually meaningful about the person they're talking about.

[Servant Alter Ego]

1. I don't believe I said that, I'm simply telling you my perspective. I disagree with the superficiality, I simply don't try to fill in additional detail to get town read. It's more effort that I really need. I could be all "ahah, you've contradicted yourself here, and here" but I don't really think you catch scum more often than town with a general approach of hunting for hypocrites. You can of course identify contradictions that are AI. But I'm not really seeing much of that so far either.

This is a big pile of words that doesn't really address what I'm saying in a meaningful sense. This hardly answers my concern at all, which is that you're taking steps to shade people but aren't really analyzing anyone or interacting in a way that looks like meaningful solving. Most of the content you do produce is IIOA.

2. Do you really think it's daring to insult someone?
3. I'm not acting wounded though. I'm pointing out that you're insulting me. But I haven't insulted you and you continue to do so. If you feel you've been personally attacked because you said you'd rather have Berserker in the chair because you think you'd get along with them better. Take it up with the mods or drop it. I also haven't insulted Archer, I've been teasing them, which is quite different.

You're engaging in semantics to dodge the point being made. 344 345 and 355 are blatantly shitting on me for absolutely no useful purpose. I feel like this discussion is increasingly becoming irrelevant to the scope of the game though so I'll drop it at this.

4. You want me to take inference to figure out your reads? I am paying attention to your posts.

If you were paying attention, you'd know I had been expressing reads, exploring certain lines of questioning to try to understand people's thinking. But again you're not looking for those things because you're not actually trying to solve the game.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Yeah, Beast's just scum who's engaging in wordplay to avoid addressing me. I'm done here.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Moon Cancer's posts continue to be terrible.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Wouldn't be the first time scum's piled on to he wagon of the person they saw as the likely winner. I don't think wagon composition is a good way to judge the master vote. Moon seems like blatant scum to me but I'm not going to let their vote on berserker scare me off.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Fingers crossed.

[Servant Alter Ego]

UNVOTE:

Might as well allow Shielder a chance for input first.

[Servant Alter Ego]

One of the potentially too specific hints; if Servant Saber is who I believe, then trusting their claim would be a large mistake as they are prominently among the mafiascum population of frequent fakeclaimers.

I was not aware there is a significant population of people that are known for fakeclaiming, as opposed to that being simply a thing that mafia does to win games. I also don't think Saber is someone who's particularly infamous for doing so, so clearly we don't think they're the same person. Why not cut the vagueness and give me something tangible to work with? Explain why you see them as untrustworthy, in simple terms based on what they've said this game. You've avoided giving actual reasons so far in lieu of vague allusions to meta that aren't helpful.

I actually like Ruler for town.

You're going to need to explain that one to me.

162 is the opposite of a town confession; it is explicitly a corrupt player making an excuse for not having an easier time formulating reads. I can point to dozens of players who have used similar excuses when corrupt but none from players using it when pure of heart because it is inherently a corrupt excuse.

At least one town player (possibly more, I don't feel like checking), said literally this exact thing in the first game, so forgive me if I don't find this reasoning to be especially compelling.

171 is an easy accusation to throw out as a corrupt individual and not one likely to be indicative of the accused being corrupt. It is in fact a post disproportionately likely to be made by the corrupt specifically because it is such an easy accusation to be made against Servant Assassin.

It being an accusation that is likely to be inaccurate doesn't make it inherently scummy, though, town make bad reads all the time. I can see why people didn't like assassin's read of lancer and foreigner wasn't the only one to push back on it. I don't think that particular post is inherently

towny

per se but in and of itself I don't think it's bad.

This is taking a look at which faction would be more likely to make the post in question. What possible advantage, what possible goal, was there in Servant Moon Cancer making that post if corrupt? It is not going to sway the minds of the masses. It is not going to convince the town that they are wrong on any of their reads. It cannot dissuade the town from pushing on the corrupt and cannot dissuade the town from correctly identifying those pure of heart. So what possible goal can there be for a corrupted servant to post 226? I can think of no motive and no reason for it.

I think you're assigning too much credit here for naked anti-consensus reads, if moon was able to back them up with something solid I might be convinced their beliefs were sincerely held but when I questioned them on it their explanations were absolutely horrendous and felt more like they wanted to ensnare me in a cheap "gotcha!". Something doesn't explicitly have to be

advantageous

for scum to do it, and that seems to be the crutch for a lot of your reasoning. The question

should

be whether you see their behavior as genuine, and it is incredibly hard to see any reason why Moon's reads are sincerely held or have real conviction to them given the fact that they don't seem to care to advance them in any meaningful way despite people not agreeing with them.

For instance, 464 does a good job of explaining the differences between their reads and mine. Servant Moon Cancer shows a strong individual thought process there unique to them

What is the strong individual thought process, exactly? All their explanations are completely vague and halfhearted, with many saying nothing at all.

By the same token, Foreigner's scumread of the widely townread Caster is similarly anti-consensus, but the strength and conviction with which they are pushing it feels a lot more real.

It is also in part because there is no backtrack. There is simply a flip. A corrupt servant is more likely to try and justify a shift in their reads thanks to fear of suspicion were they to not justify it. (You even point out how this works with your take on me and how if I were corrupt I could justify a shift in read on Servant Saber. So you must be aware of what I am talking about.) A servant pure of heart fears nothing, so they feel no such obligation and are more free to truthfully speak their mind, even if it involves a shift from their prior thoughts.

This is just absurdly convoluted reasoning, it's all cosmic brain thinking that aims for a counterintuitive explanation in avoidance of the simpler one. The change in reads looks bad, so...obviously, scum wouldn't make it, because scum never make posts that look bad, right? Why would scum simply shift their opinion to supporting whoever the popular master vote is at the moment? (the motive should be obvious). The assumption that only town would make a post that has bad optics makes no sense, because I'd expect town to at least be self-aware of how they appear to others and be willing to address that, but they haven't, at all.

It's making an inherent assumption about the skill level of Moon Cancer that is unknowable due to the nature of an anonymous game and is likely to be outright fallacious.

With the amount of water you're carrying for Moon Cancer you'd think there was a fire in need of extinguishing.

Maybe there is.

[Servant Alter Ego]

It's rather hard for me to believe someone didn't realize the game started for almost 16 hours. I recognize that not everyone is as obsessive an addict to this website as I am, but am I really to believe Avenger was simply not paying attention at all and it took him that long to come to the game thread? We all received notice of the game starting, it's not like he wouldn't have reason to check his messages.

The excuse strains credulity.

I never received a PM on my real account which I was waiting for.
You can claim to scum read me, but let's drop the bullshit reasons as its just a wierd thing to argue.

Actually Alter claimed that we received notice of (daystart? or just role PM?)

The notice of day start was on my alternate account, not my main. I had been camping out on this account waiting for the thread opening, though. I was extremely excited for this game and eager to get started, I would have expected most players to have a similar level of enthusiasm but it seems as though that sentiment is not universal.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I just had a ludicrous thought flash across my head as to why Ruler doesn't want Saber as a master and is using vague allegations to discredit them. I'm not sure if there's a good way to explain it.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Fingers crossed.

Why are you crossing your fingers?

When I read your post last night I thought it was hammer. Only realized this morning that it wasn't.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't see why Foreigner would lie about something that's easily disproven? I find it far more likely they simply misremembered about getting the role PM on their main and confused it with the daystart.

[Servant Alter Ego]

They slipped that they received notice of the game starting in the PT by saying it was a PM? Like, they confused a post in the PT with a private message and forgot it wasn't something everyone would have received?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Mod didn't notify last game's team in the PT. Would expect that to be the same here. Unless the argument is supposed to be that one of their teammates told them. But then, I don't know why they'd think that was a PM on their main. I think the only explanation is that they made a mistake.

Now, if Avenger wanted to argue that Foreigner misremembered receiving a PM and rushed to accuse without bothering to first verify whether they had received the PM on main, and were simply looking for an attack vector to push Avenger on...I suppose I could see that.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I feel like it's probably better not to take this line of discussion any further.

[Servant Alter Ego]

2. Alter: Too much omgus.

What?

I disagree with Ruler that Alter is scum. I could be wrong though.

Can you clarify what this means?

I don't really think they'd get this mad if they were scum. I've been burned by this before, some players on this site weaponize emotions. But for now I feel okay with it and will just keep an eye.

3. Archer: Not enough omgus.

What?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I’d appreciate it if everyone’s next post could include two people they prefer and two people off the table when it comes to elimination one. Preferably with detail about each.

Prefer to Eliminate: Moon Cancer, Beast.

My townreds haven't changed significantly from this post:

Strong Townreads: {Assassin, Berserker, Caster, Lancer}
Weaker Townreads: {Archer, Saber, Foreigner}

I would only explicitly stand in the door to prevent an elimination on the strong reads but would probably argue an alternative to the weaker reads if they were being wagoned.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think you're just trying to shut people down and using anger as a cover for it.

Who am I trying to shut down?

Your analysis is fairly bog standard stuff. I don't see anything *unique* that I haven't heard before somewhere else or toward another person. Heck, I've used your own arguments about me being scum against other people before and been wrong.

I'm sorry my analysis isn't

unique

enough for you, I guess. Are you expecting some sort of scintillating, never before heard argument from everyone who's town? If the point is supposed to be that I'm copying other people's reads in this game, that isn't true at all and is just a blatant misrepresentation. And how does me having arguments you've been wrong with before make me

scum

?

You continue to be incapable of making a single coherent argument.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Beast is boxed in and is desperately trying to expand the POE by attacking me and Archer.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Am I lying about your analysis being non-unique? You aren't disagreeing, you're just arguing about how that doesn't make you scum instead. I think town tend to have more of an imagination.

I think that's a fucking idiotic heuristic that has no relevance to actually catching scum and you're flinging garbage at me to see if anything will stick. I think the way I think, and if scum is going to accuse me of that being

boring

, I don't give a shit.

[Servant Alter Ego]

If he were scum trying to call us both into question, I feel like he would at least be trying to do it in a convincing way to try and sway Berserker, right?

That would depend on him having the rhetorical skill to do so, but he clearly is incapable of formulating even a semi-coherent scumread on anyone.

[Servant Alter Ego]

This is an awkward moment. but I will try to say this in an appropriately delicate fashion: my theory had been that Ruler was seeking to discredit Saber out of fear. I was clearly incorrect in that assessment. I need some time to reconsider.

I'll try to catch up more fully when I'm feeling less stressed.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Honestly I find Shielder kind of cute, they're like a little turtle. Don't know what it says about their alignment in this game.

Which post do you think I was talking about that shielder referenced? Do you know why it bothered me?

This question is open to the general public as well.

The question directed at Beast feels rather random, but I'm guessing you mean the first comment about the town leader, where she takes a great deal of effort in her reply to inform us she is catching up and is unaware of what's currently going on?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Read some ISOs because I'm bored and restless. A bit leery of the scumreads being expressed on Rider. That feels like a slot scum would see as low hanging fruit.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I see you're done trying to pretend you care about solving at all and are just hurling empty provocations.

[Servant Alter Ego]

You're taking this deadly seriously. I don't know what is going on in your personal life. But I don't want to cause you more misery than whatever it is you're going through as it appears to be more than enough for one person to handle already.

I say you're not solving and are trying to provoke me. You respond by insinuating my life must be miserable because I'm scumreading your utterly pointless antagonism. Go fuck yourself.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm calling complete and utter bullshit on the claim.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Really, I cannot get over how vile it is for Beast to say something like that about me because I dared to scumread them in a mafia game. It's just disgusting behavior that serves absolutely no purpose other than to demean and degrade. The site used to be full of people like this, that only really cared about themselves and held other players in complete contempt, but I thought it had gotten better with time. I guess not.

[Servant Alter Ego]

This is an awkward moment. but I will try to say this in an appropriately delicate fashion: my theory had been that Ruler was seeking to discredit Saber out of fear. I was clearly incorrect in that assessment. I need some time to reconsider.

I'll try to catch up more fully when I'm feeling less stressed

.

Don't quote my line when you god damn well know you're the one that provoked me here

[Servant Alter Ego]

I very much do not like the direction that the conversation between Beast and Alter is taking. Since neither are currently in the running for Master, I don't think that there is much harm in the two of you avoiding talking about the other for a bit.

I apologize for my part in this. I had been trying to avoid further exchanges because I know a prolonged 1v1 can be off-putting to other players (especially when there is no elimination vote on the table) but I have trouble not responding to statements clearly addressed to me. Last night I was unable to restrain myself and clearly stepped over the line. This does not really change my feelings toward Beast and his behavior but I recognize that my anger toward him may be coloring my judgment of his in-game alignment.

I had been trying to experiment with a calmer, more 'zen' persona this game but I am afraid I reverted back to my default tendencies at the earliest signs of irritation. I appear to have underestimated the gap between

wanting

to play differently and

actually being able

to do so. For the sake of everyone else I'll try to do my part and keep things in check going forward.

[Servant Alter Ego]

So I mean, I think I see where alter is coming from. Ruler and Beast’s scumreads on Rider especially seem to have very little to no justification and they’ve barely/never mentioned him in their ISOs yet still put him in their preferred-elim pile. Saber’s read on Rider is also a bit weird but not sure if AI atm. Other than that I’m kinda whatever about these scumreads/don’t think Rider is being seriously scumread by anyone outside of these three slots potentially.

As for me - I don’t necessarily disagree that his early ISO is lacking in content but I think most recently him being surprised at not being put in preferred-elim piles is gut-towny-feeling to me.

Right, I think it's the easiest thing in the world to slap a scumread on a low-content poster for being "lacking" or "underwhelming" or whatever word you want to use, but in this instance, the sheer lack of care they're showing for the game would be a bit surprising to see from scum. They're very upfront about not trying to look town at all. However, if you look at their content, they're giving out reads even if they don't bother to explain them, they seem to evolve with time, they're reacting to things that get their attention but don't feel obligated to comment on everything. I wouldn't put them as a definite townread but I think they'd be a poor choice for a day 1 burn.

It feels a different sort of detached than Moon Cancer. Rider feels bored, Moon feels more like they were trying to look town by having a full readslist but their lack of posting and extremely unsatisfactory explanations for their reads feel more like they're hoping everyone might forget about them if they say as little as possible.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think this is a fairly original read, if I say so myself.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Do they actually want Saber? I thought their comment about lack of resistance to Saber was meant to imply not liking Saber as a choice. Looking back, 412 seems to confirm this.

I also went to look for who his actual preference for a master was, and I cannot tell if 634 is meant to be a joke or is actually serious.

[Servant Alter Ego]

*their actual preference

Trying to use gender-neutral pronouns when none are specified, but sometimes my brain slips and reverts to using male ones as a default. Sorry.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I've stated a few reasons for SRing Berserker in response to you in this post: 351

I haven't been as motivated to make a big deal out of this because I feel it's almost inevitable at this point that Berserker will get Master'd and I don't think anyone is even reading what I say other than Berserker/Archer so it feels futile/pointless for me to write out my full feelings about the Berserker slot but I'll do it anyway because I'm quite filled with self-loathing and enjoy doing things that will ultimately be fruitless.

I saw your reasons, and I believe I responded to them at the time that I didn't really find them to be all that scum-indicative, although I believe your perspective is real and your concern to be honest. Berserker has provided quite a bit of content since you made that post, and has even taken pains to extract opinions from everyone before the end of the phase. Do you have updated thoughts on his recent postings?

Frankly, if he were scum going through the motions at this point when he easily could have told us to hurry up finish the vote, I'd be downright impressed but also confused by the amount of unnecessary effort.

Also on a side-note, I really just wanted to flirt shamelessly with a very charming and handsome town leader type that I could give everything to.

They'd sweep me off my feet with their amazing charisma and peerless vision.

I really hope somebody will become that but it's looking quite grim.

Well, that sounds nice, but wouldn't you prefer to have a handsome gentleman you can dance with, away from prying eyes? Then you'd be able to open your heart to them. Perhaps that man is still waiting out there somewhere.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Well, that sounds nice, but wouldn't you prefer to have a handsome gentleman you can dance with, away from prying eyes? Then you'd be able to open your heart to them. Perhaps that man is still waiting out there somewhere.

this would be such a dream

if I only I could be so lucky as to have someone come sweep me off my feet.

just the thought makes my heart flutter.

I really hate being the one playing seriously I just want to dance...

Well, perhaps I can make an arrangement. But it would depend on the color of your

soul

. You see, I have different taste than most. I only like girls who are messy or bad. Are you either of those?

[Servant Alter Ego]

For shame. I suppose fate is not on our side in this realm. Perhaps we shall meet again at some other time, in some other life, in some other place, and then our hearts can finally be as one. It's nice to dream about, don't you think?

[Servant Alter Ego]

It's really unfortunate for me that the people I trust I don't like and the people I like I don't trust.

That just won't do. What will it take for me to be both unlikable AND untrustworthy?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think you should finish the case but only post it after he gets revealed, if he's town. That'd be the funniest option.

[Servant Alter Ego]

At this point, if he's not town...I'd much rather find out now rather than having to worry about it down the line.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I would like to at least give Caster's words consideration before voting, though. I don't have the time to process them fully right now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I finally looked over the case, and more than anything it mostly convinced me that caster is absolutely town because I don't see scum putting themselves through such great pans to case someone they know is likely to win the vote and flip town regardless. I still think I want to take the plunge here though. Not going to offer a refutation when this is likely to be inevitable anyway. There's a slight fear in my heart that Berserker is a scum player who didn't feel comfortable going the distance and so made a bold play to win the master phase while his energy is the highest. But that's mostly a deep paranoia read, as I feel as though he didn't really pursue it aggressively out of the gates, it just developed somewhat naturally as the game progressed.

[Servant Alter Ego]

If Berserker is scum I invite him to make the funniest possible self-hammer right now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Oh.

VOTE: Berserker

there you go~

[Servant Alter Ego]

welp

[Servant Alter Ego]

sorry, I guess

I got lazy and just didn't give full consideration to what caster was saying because I felt like this was happening no matter what and the game was falling into an apathetic state

So I kind of just rolled with it hoping I was right

I shouldn't have done it and I feel terrible for freezing out my townread here

[Servant Alter Ego]

I guess in some sense this is for the better still, even if I had taken the time and gotten there I doubt I'd have been able to convince enough of the town as such

But maybe that's just cope


I feel like I've been stabbed in the chest

Why does whiffing a day 0 vote feel so sucky when I know it's not the end of the world?

[Servant Alter Ego]

You know, if Berserker turns out to be scum here (and

he still could be trolling

)... there's a few really good upsides. I won't presume to judge how people ought to view me, but Saber becomes 100% town. And Ruler should become 100% town to everyone (finally). And of course, only 3 scum not 4.

Don't give me that faint glimmer of hope here, I'll just end up holding out in my heart now

[Servant Alter Ego]

I actually felt better the moment I saw the flavor. I knew then that it had to be a troll and things were going to be all right. Too ominous. I'm on to the mod team's tricks.

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Moon Cancer

[Servant Alter Ego]

They shouldn't be eliminated at all. Even if I were scum, lying about it just before day 1 even started is a hell of an act to commit to. I don't have the spoons for that.

You're actually hardclaiming this?

[Servant Alter Ego]

My first impulse had been to call it a fabrication because I thought it unbelievable at the time that setup had the potential to produce multiple clears on day 1. My feelings were partly tied up in the heat of the moment. Looking at it more rationally I must admit, I struggle to see why scum would make a claim like that at that particular moment in time.

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Alter Ego
The amount of townreads on this is worrying.

I would say "Urge to Burn rising", except it's not really possible for it to go any higher than it already was.

You elect guy, who falls for caster AtE instantly. Way too easy to pocket.

No. Stop. You need to let this go. Caster isn't scum.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I want to vote Moon myself but I want to hear from Foreigner first. I also worry it's too easy because no one TRs Moon, yet I have been wrong there before.

Did you miss Ruler making a lengthy, rather tortured defense of Moon Cancer? I know her posts are long but that doesn't mean you should be skipping them entirely.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I want to vote Moon myself but I want to hear from Foreigner first. I also worry it's too easy because no one TRs Moon, yet I have been wrong there before.

Did you miss Ruler making a lengthy, rather tortured defense of Moon Cancer? I know her posts are long but that doesn't mean you should be skipping them entirely.

Yes, I did. What post was that?

The bottom part of this one.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'd be townreading Shielder even apart from Beast's claim right now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Day 1 proper starting on 4th of July weekend might have been a rather unfortunate occurrence.

[Servant Alter Ego]

@Archer/Caster:

Would like to see updated thoughts on the game from you, when you get a chance.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Town: Beast, Alter, Archer, Assassin, Berserker, Shielder(6)


Not sure: Foreigner, Avenger, Rider, Moon cancer. Ruler, Saber, Lancer, Caster (8)

VOTE: Foreigner

Out of thosee names in particular, why Foreigner?

[Servant Alter Ego]

although, obviously, if he were scum and the Miller weren't, he wouldn't be able to continue his cop claim

I don't understand this reasoning.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Day 1 proper starting on 4th of July weekend might have been a rather unfortunate occurrence.

don't be shy, you can still make stances, not just questions

*shrug* My main stances should be obvious, I want to punt Moon Cancer to the moon. My main townreads are Caster, Lancer, Assassin, and Shielder (I think her reaction to the beast claim was extremely town such that I don't doubt her alignment, regardless of Beast's, although I do lean town on Beast as well). Lesser townreads are Archer, Beast, and you.

Do you have reads besides scumreads on Moon Cancer and Caster?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I suppose it's less obvious, but I'm somewhat concerned that Saber has faded past their initial campaign.

[Servant Alter Ego]

i also dont like avenger

Oh. Right. My brain had been trying to wipe that part of the game out.

@Alter how do you feel about Rider?

I think they're fine so far and wouldn't want to vote them today. I'm still parsing their wallpost.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm curious why you townlean beast

I think it would have been a bold play for scum to claim when they did.

[Servant Alter Ego]

If you believe a post is in violation of the game rules, PM the moderator about it.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Yeah, I think I'm just...going to let that go now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

...That was supposed to be the incredibly strong thing you wanted to be able to use?

[Servant Alter Ego]

You really thought that was better than a guaranteed cop shot?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Town had some fairly scummy sounding abilities in the first game. What's more bothersome is the disconnect of how Saber was selling it versus the underwhelming description of what it actually is.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I feel like they are planning out on who to push.

What is this supposed to mean?


I've been working mainly off of finding townreads but I've been scumhunting as well.

Please don't find a way to be more annoying than mastina.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I find it annoying to have nonsensical accusations made against me from slots that are almost 99% town. That's not remotely close to a true representation of how I've been playing the game.

[Servant Alter Ego]

How can a

tone

be information over analysis?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Characters are completely irrelevant to alignment as they were chosen by the player who signed up for the game before being given their alignment.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Yes I know how Upicks work

All factors considered I find it unlikely fake but I'm holding conversations about this here until further notice

If you know that characters are independent of alignment, why mention that there's a small amount of characters you can see holding that phantasm? Isn't that completely irrelevant?

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Saber

Let's spice this up. I don't buy the claim in accordance with how they played the first phase, I don't like how safe their reads were, and I don't like how they've fallen off the map now that we've moved to actually playing mafia. Plus one more ~secret reason~

[Servant Alter Ego]

I could be okay with a Saber elim.

My scum read on Foreigner is stronger, but in regards to saber, it could help us look at who was/wasn't supporting him Day 0 based on the flip.

I am not sure how many votes that is -- will double check count before voting

I thought your case on Saber was more convincing, personally.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I could be okay with a Saber elim.

My scum read on Foreigner is stronger, but in regards to saber, it could help us look at who was/wasn't supporting him Day 0 based on the flip.

I am not sure how many votes that is -- will double check count before voting

I thought your case on Saber was more convincing, personally.

Possibly. I think the my read on Foreigner feels stronger to me, just because almost every post that comes from them makes it stronger, where are Saber has their moments

The points you have against saber highlight specifically a mentality where they often contradicted themselves in trying to explain why they wanted their master vote and why their NP would be useful. It's based on posts they've made that don't add up. With regard to foreigner it seems to be mostly related to them trolling/not caring. Slots like that can flip scum, but they don't always. I've never felt most of the cases there to be fully formed beyond "plays weird, trolls too much". (Also, I straight up disagree with your assessment of 801 - I wouldn't expect scum to openly antagonize the clear right away)

[Servant Alter Ego]

...because they were being intentionally vague and lying to try to win the master vote?

[Servant Alter Ego]

On Saber:

I'm not sure how to preface this. Saber is a type of player I have trouble reading. They give off an aura of deep inexperience, are prone to faulty logic, heavy speculation, and paranoia. Is there a cutoff from which such behavior goes from possible of a town player to only being in the purview of scum? In my not particularly extraordinary mafia career, I have yet to see a bottom. There is no rabbit hole too deep from which any one townie will happily dive right into while the rest of everybody looks from the top down with shaking heads. And so, when I do see this happening, there are a good chuck of times I simply attribute it to town when in fact its just scum being audacious.

So what is the case for Saber? Firstly, right off the bat, I am positive Saber claimed their true power. If they were scum with a different one, well I do not think anyone would have the imagination to decide to blast off into being forced to defend the one claimed, which as anyone (normal) can see, is complete shit. However there is a case to be made (and I am leaning this way and will offer it) that Saber may very well have taken this power, and mentally decided to treat it as the next best thing to sliced bread. This is still insanity. No one of us would ever do this, but if Saber's proven anything, they have proven they are insane.

I can't actually show from their posts that saber doesn't think their power is the bee's knees when used early. Almost all are frighteningly consistent on that point. Arguably the very first few posts, like 35 are the only cracks there as Saber's other posts tend to signal that they think they are well-suited to the power (see 77, 205, 206, and 218) which would suggest they do in fact like the power. The context for 208 is actually what's happening right now, judgement time, but it is also consistent with someone who knows their power isn't all that good and less likely to come from someone who believes their power is good, for would we reasonable people not find Saber's oversell completely justified given the godlike power they claim to have? Why should Saber worry at all?

There are a couple posts in the iso I don't like but can't make up my mind if they are AI or simply make it clearer that Saber is selfish. Namely, 206 and more recently 909. The first is quite unsympathetic and the 2nd one really just discounts the fact objectively scum would have more to fear from a 100% guaranteed cop check than the mystery option. What moves me over the edge though is a couple of perspective inconsistencies: The paranoia of buddying. It exists in posts 235, 468, 472, and 520. By itself, possibly just overused diction stolen from 2015er newborns. But it really doesn't jive with posts like 316, 474, and to a lesser extent 909. That is, one cannot be both scared of buddying and argue that scum is trying to push over town by not supporting/advancing Saber's bid. Individually, each stance might be plausible to Saber, but I don't see a way to reconcile these.

I know I've basically thrown the kitchen sink here at Saber but I'm being as thorough as I can. And even still I'm not sure there isn't a better elimination option.

At a minimum, I feel as though Saber's knowledge of past games that they reference suggests they are not an inexperienced player. The overdone paranoia about buddying is another very good point, though.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I am pretty sure it is.

What are your thoughts on Saber? You expressed a dislike of the lack of resistance to the master vote on them but haven't weighed in on the wagon on them.

[Servant Alter Ego]

[Servant Alter Ego]

So you think they're scummy but there are better votes? I don't understand why you're referring to background plays there. The statement you quoted makes you sound like you think they're dumb but not necessarily scum.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm not interested in moving off Saber when they haven't really responded to the votes on them or being wagoned at all. Also, the narrative of them being a "counterwagon" to Moon Cancer doesn't really track - 3 of the voters on Saber were common ith the ones on Moon Cancer - Me, Lancer, and Rider.

[Servant Alter Ego]

It is, however, notably ironic that I'm apparently Moon Cancer's biggest scumread but they have no probably sheeping me on both Berserker and Saber.

[Servant Alter Ego]

So you think they're scummy but there are better votes? I don't understand why you're referring to background plays there. The statement you quoted makes you sound like you think they're dumb but not necessarily scum.

more like null, while others are scum

...but if they're null, why did you have a problem with them getting the master vote?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Let's put it this way though, how often are millers dealt with?
More than not. I personally think that the general meta should be Miller claims do not make MyLo unless confirmed town.
I also think that a vig should always shoot a miller claim regardless of what has happened. Therefore, it's actually a stupid play from scum to claim (hence why the meta should remain regardless).

I don't survive to end game, and I'm not going to be pushing back on that later.
I have 2 additional roles though, 1 is either for or against scum (and low key ironic for me to get), and 1 is anti scum in this setup.
Both of these are also provable, the first at any point in the day and the second at the end of the day.

Here's some food for thought though, and I've been thinking this over for the last day to if I should say or not, and I've decided I want to since Lancer and Foreigner are shading and most likely contain 1-2 scum.
In addition, my power up power thing is the same Sabres. Originally I read Sabres comment as it's better late game, and that is my view on it.
So my thoughts here are
A) if anyone else at all has this power, then its plausible to be town or at least irrelevant to thought right now and I think Sabre is town anyway.
B) if only me and Sabre have this power then it's likely 1 of us is scum and 1 of us is town. Obviously in this situation, I would claim the town.

If its A, I'm probably going to use my first power on Foreigner if the votes are not going there.

Why claim now? It's not like anyone was voting you.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Meh.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Moon Cancer

[Servant Alter Ego]

I had been hoping that with the holiday being over, the game would pick up in activity, but that doesn't quite seem to be happening.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Sorry about that, hope the work's going all right for you.

[Servant Alter Ego]

The day's halfway done, we really ought to be getting to our first flip. I think you should claim.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think I'd still prefer Moon though. Maybe I'm a sucker but Saber's AtE got to me a little bit, and moon has done nothing town (and, in fact, has been notably scummy in their latest replies) yet continues to experience an odd amount of resistance to being voted.

[Servant Alter Ego]

What are your thoughts on Moon Cancer? You don't seem to have spoken about them at all.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I would like to note that looking at the ISO devoid of context does not show how they have sheeped me on both Berserker for the Master and Saber for elimination despite me being their biggest scumread. Apparently that's not a concern for them.

Mind giving me a vote on them?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I feel like I just watched the president get shot.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Remember all that time we spent arguing about how we had to choose who would make the best leader? Ha, ha, ha.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm assuming the gladiate was the doing of Avenger. Would like him to confirm.

[Servant Alter Ego]

But also, seriously, what the hell? Why would you do that now of all times?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Yeah, fuck no, there is absolutely no reason as town to force a gladiate immediately once the clear altslips and has to be replaced, and there are dueling wagons happening. You hijacked the game unnecessarily and forced a 1v1 between you and a player outside those wagons who hasn't even had a chance to claim. That's scummy as fuck.

VOTE: Avenger

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm certain notscience would have spiked your head into the ground if you had tried this shit while he was around.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Moon is blatant fucking scum and the fact you're intervening to save them says it all.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm certain notscience would have spiked your head into the ground if you had tried this shit while he was around.

So I did it because Berserker was replaced, before we knew it was Beserker being replaced?
Okay...

Whoops, didn't notice the timeline there. (I had guessed it but I realize not everyone would have). Irrespective of that, you were still directly subverting the clear for absolutely no good reason to save Moon Cancer, who is scummy as fuck, without waiting for anyone's input. There's just absolutely no credible town motivation for such a play.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I mean, you can try o intimidate me, I don't really care because I know it's all bullshit.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Weren't you planning on using a night action, that was like, totally confirmable? whatever happened to that?

[Servant Alter Ego]

100% scum based on...?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I misremembered what I read earlier. So this is the power you were planning on using?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Yeah there's no way you pull this shit as town, the timing is the most blatant opportunism imaginable.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'd be more willing to bet on him flipping town than you right now, yes.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Yes, you're scum, he's town, that's obviously what I meant, shut the fuck up

[Servant Alter Ego]

Yes, you're scum, he's town, that's obviously what I meant, shut the fuck up

Okay perfect.
So this is someone hard defending foreigner.

Yes, because your gladiate is a fucking scumclaim

[Servant Alter Ego]

Moon Cancer just looks to be keeping options open there.
What tiers do you have for those names, Moon Cancer?

THIS IS LITERALLY THE ONLY TIME AVENGER MENTIONED MOON CANCER BEFORE THE GLADAITE.

DOES THIS LOOK LIKE SOMEONE WHO "DOES NOT READ MOON AS SCUM"?

[Servant Alter Ego]

At literally any time prior to this avenger could have stepped in and said a word about moon cancer in their defense, and did not, and instead he stepped in with this gladiate

[Servant Alter Ego]

Yes, you're scum, he's town, that's obviously what I meant, shut the fuck up

Okay perfect.
So this is someone hard defending foreigner.

Yes, because your gladiate is a fucking scumclaim

And your defending of scum is a scum claim.

Suck me from the back

[Servant Alter Ego]

Zero indication given that you didn't scumread moon cancer

Zero words said in their defense

And you expect people to believe this?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Look at how quiet Avenger got when I mentioned his track record where he gives literally no indication he didn't scumread Moon Cancer

[Servant Alter Ego]

He can't even address it because he knows it's indefensible

[Servant Alter Ego]

It'd be one thing to say he disagreed but was getting ignored. It's another thing entirely to say absolutely nothing about it while they're up for consideration only to initiate a gladiate elsewhere

[Servant Alter Ego]

Zero indication given that you didn't scumread moon cancer

Zero words said in their defense

And you expect people to believe this?

Yes, I do.
Let's say I flip town. Does my word have merit?

No, if you're actually town you're a fucking moron and completely worthless as a mafia player

[Servant Alter Ego]

I hope for your sake you're not town

[Servant Alter Ego]

Because if you are town you're sure as shit getting blacklisted by me

[Servant Alter Ego]

You don't have to follow every single word Berserker says, but the way to win is to work TOGETHER because this is a fucking team game.

if you flip town I'll be salty about your play for sure.

The only way you would dislike my town flip is because you're scum let's be serious here.

Why would scum dislike a town flip, you fucking idiot

[Servant Alter Ego]

Look at how quiet Avenger got when I mentioned his track record where he gives literally no indication he didn't scumread Moon Cancer

Quiet?
I have about 6 or more players posting to me...
Is this the best you can go with?

Why do you keep dodging the fact you gave no indication you didn't scumread moon cancer and never tried to defend them?

[Servant Alter Ego]

(you can't, because it's pure bullshit)

[Servant Alter Ego]

Nah he wants foreigner flipped because there's appetite there, and then he gets flipped after

[Servant Alter Ego]

Look at how quiet Avenger got when I mentioned his track record where he gives literally no indication he didn't scumread Moon Cancer

Quiet?
I have about 6 or more players posting to me...
Is this the best you can go with?

Why do you keep dodging the fact you gave no indication you didn't scumread moon cancer and never tried to defend them?

I don't have anything to counter it, correct.
It doesn't mean I scum read them. The fact they have so little to work with is why I haven't mentioned them as opposed to where I suspected scum in Assassin and Saber, where I have obviously changed my mind by thos point.

B U L L S H I T

IT TOOK YOU THIS LONG TO COME UP WITH THIS TERRIBLE ANSWER? WHY DID YOU NEVER MENTION OR DISCUSS THEM AT ALL BEFORE NOW? IT CAN'T BE BECAUSE THEY HAD "TOO LITTLE CONTENT", BECAUSE

1.)

PLENTY OF PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT THEM ANYWAY AND YOU COULD HAVE CHIMED IN TO SAY THAT AND

2.)

THE CONTENT THEY HAVE POSTED IS SCUMMY AS FUCK. NO WAY THIS IS A REAL THOUGHT A TOWN PLAYER HAS.

[Servant Alter Ego]

LOOK AT HOW FUCKING EVASIVE AVENGER IS ABOUT HIS MOON CANCER READ

[Servant Alter Ego]

HE TRIED TO BULLSHIT AN EXPLANATION ONLY TO REALIZE, WHOOPS, I NEVER ACTUALLY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A REAL READ. IT'S SO GODDAMN OBVIOUS

[Servant Alter Ego]

B U L L S H I T

IT TOOK YOU THIS LONG TO COME UP WITH THIS TERRIBLE ANSWER? WHY DID YOU NEVER MENTION OR DISCUSS THEM AT ALL BEFORE NOW? IT CAN'T BE BECAUSE THEY HAD "TOO LITTLE CONTENT", BECAUSE 1.) PLENTY OF PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT THEM ANYWAY AND YOU COULD HAVE CHIMED IN TO SAY THAT AND 2.) THE CONTENT THEY HAVE POSTED IS SCUMMY AS FUCK. NO WAY THIS IS A REAL THOUGHT A TOWN PLAYER HAS.

Yeah because I haven't been constantly posting to others as well.
As least try if you want to discredit properly.

LOL THAT'S NOT EVEN AN ANSWER

[Servant Alter Ego]

No.

Not for me at least.

This play proves that you don't have the greatest judgement

Okay, say I flip town, Moon flips town and foreigner flips scum.
Is my judgement still bad?

You're not flipping town, who gives a shit

[Servant Alter Ego]

I refuse to believe any town player, even one fresh out of the newbie queue, could be this bad

[Servant Alter Ego]

No, I think I got it.

You disagreed with the direction that Berserker was leading us, so you decided to take agency away from the entire player list, instead of, I don't know... talking to us.

Explaining your town read on Moon Cancer, or trying to push your scum read on Foreigner.

In my defense I claimed I was going.to use my day ability on foreigner if I felt the need to.
No one actually commented on that, so it obviously wasn't an issue then.

Get the fuck out of here, like anyone would have expected a gladiate

[Servant Alter Ego]

I refuse to believe any town player, even one fresh out of the newbie queue, could be this bad

You're still treading on breaking the site rules.
Attack the play not the player here. I've told you to stop, now do it.

Don't try to rules lawyer to silence me

[Servant Alter Ego]

Now when you say moon cancer's posts are not scummy, can you explain specifically why you don't think moon cancer's read on alter is scummy?

Because there's nothing for me to really go by on it.
I just don't read Moon as scummy though.

Lol, again, he can't defend the read because it's pure fucking bullshit

[Servant Alter Ego]

Avenger just refuses to engage in good faith and is resorting to pedantry, whining, and pointless hypotheticals to try to spin away the fact that his usage of the gladiate here is absurdly scummy

[Servant Alter Ego]

It'd be funny if it was scum trying to tie himself to town moon cancer, but I really doubt that's the case. Scum don't always play rationally, the idea that impulsive behavior only comes from town is a fallacy.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Also sheeped my votes despite me being their biggest scumread.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Well it starts saying that Ego has too much uncertainty. That's different to just town read.
I'm not sure why I'd directly find this scummy rather than Null?

Just because someone has a reason which isn't great doesn't mean it's scummy.

This is complete crap, you're not even answering. Why is any of that supposed to be a real reason to find me scummy, how is it a real thought, why can't they explain it despite being repeatedly asked, why should you think this is coming from a town player at all?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'll be leaving soon but please, no one get stupid and hammer before we get a replacement for Berserker.

[Servant Alter Ego]

The fact that Avenger is now saying they don't even town read Moon Cancer (they are null) makes this play even wilder.

Was he really so bothered that town was going to elim a null read, that he decided to step in and make sure that did not happen?

On a day with a double elimination, no less.

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Moon Cancer

This first.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Well do as you like.
Personally Ego has made me just feel shit at this stage to really care what happens.

I removed the challenge just go with me.

Hey. I went for a drive to cool my head off.

Spoiler: For Avenger

For the sake of writing this post I'm just going to put aside all the game stuff and assume what you said here is true.

I'm sorry for making you feel like shit. I got tilted because of the notscience force replace and the sudden gladiate and I flew off the handle because of it. I've had a really stressful week and that combined with my frustration at how apathetic the game was getting all boiled over because of the dramatic change in circumstances. I still dislike the play for the reasons I've given but I recognize that I went too far with my words against you.

This is the second time I've flown off the handle at someone this game and I feel terrible about it. It's apparent I have a problem with keeping my emotions in check during games. I'm probably going to take a long break after this game. For the sake of this game, while it's running, I'm going to try to not be abusive any further.

Again, I'm sorry for hurting your feelings with my words.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Help, Ruler broke character

[Servant Alter Ego]

At this point it's likely Moon Cancer will stall things out, they've been waiting until the prod timer would run out to post. And, ultimately, I feel like nothing they could claim would actually make me want to keep them alive here with the way they're playing. Maybe I'm being hyper-tunneled, and I'm about to eat shit, but I'm fine with that if it's the case because Moon Cancer isn't even really playing the game at this point. If that thing is town then I know I need to reset my reads.

[Servant Alter Ego]

There is quite literally always scum on a day 1 scum elimination. It's not worth fretting over. Tired, don't have time to talk more tonight.

[Servant Alter Ego]

If I may be permitted a brief moment of self-indulgence: I told you so.

I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going to prudently treat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.

This is probably wise, NK15 hardly even bothered to explain himself after his first few posts, I feel like he went into shutdown mode the moment he got even the slightest bit of heat. Posts in the Townstumps Scum PT indicate he doesn't really put in effort.

What's going to be more relevant is how people positioned themselves around Moon Cancer. Given the strength of his role I suspect that scumteam didn't want to lose him right away and that was why he was so difficult to flip.

I'm not going to immediately jump on Avenger for the hasty gladiate, that was a dumb and incredibly frustrating move but I'm not sure if scum would willingly draw so much attention to themself like that. I have a few other people in mind I want to take a look back at.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going to prudently treat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.

This is probably wise, NK15 hardly even bothered to explain himself after his first few posts, I feel like he went into shutdown mode the moment he got even the slightest bit of heat. Posts in the Townstumps Scum PT indicate he doesn't really put in effort.

Do you think that that would still apply to literally their first post in the thread -- before any pressure was on them? Because that is the post I reference back to.

No, obviously not. But I can see motive for scum to support the leading Masterization wagon both if it's on scum and if it's on town. But looking at NK15's comments in the townstumps PT, he calls himself "the most likely [to] be eliminated member of the scumteam" right away. He knows he sucks. Does he immediately move to vote to lose a member of his team in the first phase, when he knows he'll be unlikely to carry? I have my doubts. Even that first vote is WIFOM.