Mini Theme 2222: Open Draft Mafia [Game Over]

[cyrus62]

UNVOTE:

I’m super disengaged, but that looks like townstina so I should probably reset here.

Can you walk me through this since I'm less familiar with mastina & it's the set of posts I had the opposite reaction to?

Is this your catch up I need a lot more post from you help me by posting I can't short people who don't post.

[T3]

cyrus? What if you vote the disengaged nullscum lurksack NDMath with me?

[cyrus62]

cyrus? What if you vote the disengaged nullscum lurksack NDMath with me?

I only sheep people who earn some town cred why do you want me off infinity so badly are you so sure they are town that I shouldn't vote them at all?

[Flea The Magician]

I kinda want to do the lightning rod play again where I play with my cards face up, but I won't be taking scummy roles because of one person deciding to strike my death knell.

Please don't. Scum having imperfect information is a huge net positive for town.

This is going to be hard to translate from brain to screen, so bear with me.

The theory last time would be I openly declare and take any/all negative roles, this means scum have to avoid giving me certain roles and limits their pack rotation knowing that any role that comes to me is lost.

Roles don't evolve in this game, so I can't be strung up by town for declaring an evolved role.

By play mechanically I took an optimal line and denying scum certain options (godfathers, post restrictions on town, vote restrictions on town).

And I stand by that now.

I like this post from flea, and I think it's a mechanically sound strategy for everyone.

If we all burn our pro-scum roles the day we get them, it will greatly limit scum's power.

It would also force scum to play in a way that may be suboptimal to avoid outing themselves.

If we can get a consensus on this, I think we should start doing so tonight.

You really like being scum don't ya.

One or two players at maximum lightning rod scum roles and open declare. If everyone just starts burning scum roles, well then scum get the town roles and scupper us even more than we do them.

[Bingle]

EVERYBODY has a PR. I'm not in here asking people WHAT their roles ARE.

Everyone has access to different prs. Discussing what individuals should do is necessarily information about the options they have, and thus bad.

[Bingle]

Not ignoring dwlee and math, just not responding while mobile

[T3]

I hArDcLaIm Pr.

[Bingle]

I agree with Bingle that those posts feel weirdly disproportional but I need more words I think for the progression post. I don't really get what is half-assed about it.

Spoiler:

A50 could be scum, I feel like it's mostly a matter of the people who know a50 best and mastina/bingle think he's town so.

I feel similar about norwee tbh. I feel like at this point in the day I'm ok just limming anyone outside of my townreads because I don't think I'm gonna get a good scumread.

Do you townread norwee?

All these wagons are meh to bad

VOTE: dwlee

I'm gonna take a look a norwee's scum games. I was under the impression he just does nothing as scum.

If his scum game is at all comparable to his play here, I could be ok voting him. He still feels quite towny to me but mastina is very town and very confident, I have a lot of townreads I feel comfortable with, and this game is gonna go nowhere otherwise.

Mastina can you give a summary of how you feel norwee tends to play as town and how he's playing here?

For me, it's basically: he tends to act as a spectator and gives his thoughts as the game goes along, showing his solving process along the way. He doesn't say everything that he's thinking but you get the impression he's thinking behind the scenes.

Here he seems to be playing pretty similarly to me, although the spectator narrative isn't really the same because he's being pushed. Still, the part about not laying out his whole thought process is definitely there.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Norwee's scumgame kinda looks like his towngame tbh, except less

Norwee do you want to help me start a wagon?

Mastina and taly are off the table though.

I'm a sucker for town cases, also the way he's playing feels like bored town trying to find a productive angle.

The other option is that I vote you.

Why is scum!norwee not using me as a liferaft here?

@Norwee: progression that feels halfassed.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for readability

This starts off with I'd be willing to vote Norwee, call specifically for townreads on Norwee, instead vote someone else because "these wagons are bad". She continues into a meta defense of Norwee and says she'll look further into his meta to respond to a request that she vote Norwee. You know, that person she's willing to vote and explicitly not townreading. Her conclusion? That Norwee scum and Norwee town look similar, and her meta defense of someone she's still not townreading and willing to vote is pretty garbage-y. She STILL doesn't vote the Norwee in question here.

Infinity then reaches out to Norwee to build a wagon somewhere else, but not on the people pushing him. Note, still no townread. At this point, she has a townread on Norwee by virtue of

I want to flip a50, dwlee, flea, or house, since I have various shades of townreads on everyone else.

At this point, the only thing Infinity has mentioned that she hasn't contradicted is that Norwee had an early townread on her. She continues this into "Why isn't norwee using me as a liferaft" to which the obvious answer is none of the things she's done have any chance of actually helping Norwee dodge the lim.

Note, there are actually things Norwee is doing to dodge the lim, like continue solving and generally putting more effort into the game now that it's progressed some.

Teal deer: Infinity doesn't look like she's trying to derail the lim on Norwee (or even push all that hard for an alternative, although she has a list of four names she'd rather flip) but it does look like she's trying really fucking hard to not be on that lim herself.

[Dwlee99]

I can vibe with that. I'll look into her ISO and read with what you said in mind.

[Infinity 324]

I don't think it's particularly a secret that I townread norwee on play, the only reason I would vote him is to advance the game. But now the wagon is gone so I don't even think that would be productive.

[Infinity 324]

You know, that person she's willing to vote and explicitly not townreading.

I'm gonna take a look a norwee's scum games. I was under the impression he just does nothing as scum.

If his scum game is at all comparable to his play here, I could be ok voting him.

He still feels quite towny to me

but mastina is very town and very confident, I have a lot of townreads I feel comfortable with, and this game is gonna go nowhere otherwise.

??

[Bingle]

@Math

Snip

There were a few things I found town with this post. First of all, the self meta is NAI, but fairly accurate. It does show that there is a logical progression behind her tunnel on Norwee, which is a good sign. Secondly, the sentence 'anyone who doesn't see that this is my towngame is a fucking idiot because this is painfully transparently my towngame' is unironically town indicative for mastina. It's not something that she tends to think while scum, and even if I don't agree that she'd been exceptionally town up to that point it is more likely than not that SHE believes that which is the important thing. The fact she assumes my "I don't hate this readslist" post was an agreement with the reads instead of a "This looks consistent with what I'd expect the you making the pushes you're making would think" combined with the appeal to sheep her on Norwee points to an actual desire to see this Norwee wagon through. If scum bussing, mastina would be happy that I seem to want to table the 1v1 for a day there, and probably wouldn't be pushing as hard as she is to continue it.

The Taly read is overexplained in a way that made me feel she was actually trying to get me to think about things. I don't agree with the logic (particularly, the concept that Taly scum wouldn't be surprised about a townread when she supposedly defaults to scumreads on him) but I can follow it, and it doesn't need to be right to come from town.

In fact, one of the biggest towntells from mastina is that while I can see why she's thinking what she's thinking, I don't really agree that the conclusions are accurate. That makes me think she's naturally working through thoughts to reach conclusions instead of starting from an informed perspective. What did you not like about mastina's posting in that period?

[Bingle]

Spoiler:

A50 could be scum, I feel like it's mostly a matter of the people who know a50 best and mastina/bingle think he's town so.

I feel similar about norwee tbh. I feel like at this point in the day I'm ok just limming anyone outside of my townreads because I don't think I'm gonna get a good scumread.

Do you townread norwee?

Townreads: mastina, dunn, cyrus, NDMath, taly, T3 somewhat

You know, that person she's willing to vote and explicitly not townreading.

I'm gonna take a look a norwee's scum games. I was under the impression he just does nothing as scum.

If his scum game is at all comparable to his play here, I could be ok voting him.

He still feels quite towny to me

but mastina is very town and very confident, I have a lot of townreads I feel comfortable with, and this game is gonna go nowhere otherwise.

??

Yeah, it's like I was commenting on a progression and at the point I was talking about you were explicitly not townreading him. The townread you're expressing there comes a full 6 pages after the progression I was talking about ended.

[Infinity 324]

I think taly is obvtown this game tbh

Norwee too kinda lol

For everyone else: I soulread norwee as town in divide and conquer, and not many other players were townreading him there. I think I've correctly townread him in at least one game I've spectated of his, but that's it. He looks very town to me here, but my read on him isn't to the same level it was in divide and conquer, and honestly mastina is making me doubt my read a bit. I might look at a couple of his scumgames because I was under the impression his scumgame was a lot less active/content-focused than this.

[cyrus62]

It would be ironic if I was right about infinity becuse that would mean I cught scum in the 1st 6 post of the game.

[cyrus62]

Btw I got the page 50 page top.

[T3]

I don't have a huge reason to tr Infinity.

[cyrus62]

I don't have a huge reason to tr Infinity.

Dw has been calling infinity town all game. Now read d1 dw of mine and dw scum game he did the same for me until he knew I was sunk then he moved on. I think if enough people vote infinity dw will change his read on them.

[cyrus62]

Yep I'm dead .

[T3]

I don't have a huge reason to tr Infinity.

Dw has been calling infinity town all game. Now read d1 dw of mine and dw scum game he did the same for me until he knew I was sunk then he moved on. I think if enough people vote infinity dw will change his read on them.

What if Dwlee is town townreading townfinity.

[cyrus62]

I don't have a huge reason to tr Infinity.

Dw has been calling infinity town all game. Now read d1 dw of mine and dw scum game he did the same for me until he knew I was sunk then he moved on. I think if enough people vote infinity dw will change his read on them.

What if Dwlee is town townreading townfinity.

I don't have a huge reason to tr Infinity.

Can't have it both ways. Rather what if you and dw and infinity are all scum together . The only way to disprove that is if infinity flips green.

[T3]

You're wrong.

[T3]

I'm obviously not scum with Dwlee.

[cyrus62]

I don't have a huge reason to tr Infinity.

why the back n fourth either you town read infinity r you don't then what was the point of this post.

[cyrus62]

Bam